Hunter.4783:

If you think a dragonhunter is “great” give a reaper, scrapper, or herald a try. You will soon change your opinion

pretty sure I won’t. DH gives me all the flexibility I am looking for in my burn build. Just need to find the sweet spot to get my 100% condi duration going and I can play offensivly as well as extremely tanky.

running Fragments of Faith Trap&Trait with honor + Runes of the defender is gets me and anybody else through almost any heropoint.

wanna go full offense? I just swap for my Mad Kings rune set and let mordrem explode left and right.

I love guardian and DH so even if reaper lets stuff explode too. I am fine with where I am.

Just wanted to say I have the same thing but it only occurs first around 6:00- 7:00pm (so about primetime) and continous. I tried quite a lot firewall settings, changing WLAN channels using a VPN reroute and what not.

I know it is not my client or my rig. I took it to a friends house and it worked fine from there. He has the same proivder and contract as I do.

Nedruy.3948:

Then the traits that apply specifically to the skill guardian work for the skill of the dragon hunter? I refer specifically to :

Virtue:
- Supreme justice
- Absolute resolution
- Permaeting wrath
- Battle presence
- Indomitable courage

Radiance:
- Justice is blind
- Renewed justice
- Wrath of justice

Valor:
- Courageous return

Honor:
- Purity of body

but make no mistake… this is not synergy!

Fashion Mage.3712:

Terra.8571:

I’m not trying to say Guardians can’t heal, I’m trying to say Druids can do it easier/ better.

I mostly agree, but I’m still not convinced that guardians are worse at (practical) burst healing specifically. :p

well we do have a 6.5k group heal that remove three conditions on a 26s CD that we can recharge once within 3 secs.

Druid is madness however. chaining wisp, lunar impact on a healspring outheals any class. especially because its rinse and repeat very quickly. drop in glyph of alignment and unity and you got a HP battery.

Carrion comes out infront by a mile.
Vitality is probably the best defensive stat for us since we are able to mitigate blows pretty well yet our low HP makes us vurnable to conditions. Assuming Radaince Traitline you will have a solid crit chance on top of it to compliment the Power from carrion.

depending on what you want to do I suggest taking a look at sinsiter

ZoroDaOtter.3859:

Hunter.4783:

Fashion Mage.3712:

I can’t wait to get that Zealot amulet (assuming it happens), it’ll open up so many DPS/Support builds.

You pretty much leave yourself open to burst

I really don’t see how healing power will be able to give us enough sustain to face something scary like a reaper, scrapper or chrono.

I’m actually thinking of something like a CC/Bunker DH but it seems to lack sustain due to not having AH. Could always replace Virtues with Valor as DH traits mess with the instant activation.

well for pure of heart in you build might take care of half your concern. the other half might be compensated by the often overlooked fact that wings of resolve is good for 6700 hp healed on a 26 sec cool down. (if the numbers of gw2skills.net hold up) thats a 50% heal.

this is close to twice as effective. We just need to think of our F2 more then a condi cleanse.

If they add rune of the defender to pvp this will be even more fun.
I do not see dragons maw in your build however. RF is much better and FMW as well.

TheLastNobody.8319:

Making something unblock able is just lazy design, and I do think they’ve put out too many reflects on other classes, which has caused them to make this decision. Then again they have made other attacks undodgeable and what not which counters thief mechanics as well, but seems raids are focusing on more sort of damage reduction and regeneration rather than outright avoiding damage all together.

the problem I see is that they have to make them unblocakble because if they dont dragonhunters would trivilize most encounters. you just huddle up and chain F3 roman battle formation style.

but I am not that concerned overall. the minmaxers will sure find a set up that will exclude 40-50% of the classes anyways. 2 revs, 2 eles, 2 mesmers, fill up with whatever brings the best gap fillers and the diversity is already gone.

we gonna do the raids in our guild for fun and the challenge itself until we make it work with whatever classes people want to bring. It will take time until the strategy guides are out but after that with a little practice I do not see it matter much.

An even if it is something not everyone is to complete with his favorite classe then so be it.

Vikkela.7261:

Just throwing out there, what about interrupts from possible trap dazes?

In this build every 5th attack casuse 3 conditions through passiv F1. every knock back 2 conditions. losing dulled senses would reduce the condi spam quite a lot. The interrupt through the trap is also a lot less targetable at the right moment compared to shield #5, F1 pull and even the LB knock back for which you just have to pay attention CD wise.

On top I couldnt find a way to use a trap effectively without giving up too much survivability. Dragons maw would compliment the overall strategy. RF is too strong and needed in this build.

If the confusion gets cleared to fast the build uses its overall effectiveness. So no room in this one.

The dps variant will use traps however would not feature rune of perplexity. you can not have it all

This is the dps idea:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNAT5ensABVdiFdCmCBEEhl4BrKAslKAY9gkQWQe/FAPgA-T1RBABXp8TPdDWq+zFPBg33fAgLCgZKBJFAgTtA-w

massiv sustain and if infight you just pull the burst combo with test of faith for 3-5 x the damage for crossing the swords. Not sure abut the stats yet. sigil of intelligence is not the best way to go but mace and bow have two extremly useful skills for it.

the new fragements of faith trap together with hunter determination is one of the best defensive passivs you can have imo.

nearlight.3064:

Dirame.8521:

Heh….heheh….. hehehehehehehehehehehehehe.

There are a few issues with the Trapper runes. Stealth lasts 2 seconds, you have to use valuable cooldowns to activate them and if someone steps into your trap…. well bye bye stealth.

That being said there might still be a way to use it effectively. I just need to test if I’m correct first.

I guess my thought process is that the stealth is more of disengage and repositioning tool rather than something you rely on to engage the enemy like a PU carried bandwagon mes prenerf. And to be honest I think the most important part of the stealth is losing target from the enemy (especially when focused in teamfights), and the super speed carries you from there. Also the wiki says its 3 seconds, which doesn’t matter too much. Although the new targetting system could render that part moot though. I’ll PM you the build idea I have since you’d probably be able to help me tweak it better than most people could.

the stealth can be used to utilize traps better.

drop multiple traps then either leap behind target stealthed, knock them in the trap via shield #5 and or Hammer #4 or simply use our new pull. A main issue with guard skill sis always the “easy to avoid” argument. well its not when it is coming from stealth.

Depending on the details of our F1 this will be an extremely strong skill in many situations. looking forward to pull enemies in WvWvW and spvp

Hi all,

with HoT around the corner and the new changes (post BWE3) in mind I would like to share build idea that heavily relies on conditions, control and area denial. the build is full ranged.

I would like to hear your opinions on it. maybe it is complete bullkitten but I feel this could work and be annoying as hell but a lot of fun for us.

What is it for?
WvWvW Roaming and arena fights in Guild halls, opene world PvE if you want. It really is a 1on1 build.

Note worthy:
- 80% condi duration overall
- 80% burn duration
- 100% confusion duration
- 45%+ poison uptime
- cripple galore
- 17 stack burn brust combo (active F1 use)

I am a sucker for 100% condi duration which basically brings down the overall damage so If you feel you do not want that or its too much feel free to chose something else.

The mechanic
The build brings in two conditions via sigils that are not part of DH or Guardian gameplay: poison and confusion. The main mechanic is to cover the longlasting 5 stacks of confusion with repatedly applied cripple, burn and vurnability while occassional posion and longlastig immobilizes will draw out cleanses to set up a burn burst combo via pulls and knock backs.

Where we get Posion and Confusion:

Rune of perplexity:
3 Stacks for 10s, 25s CD
5 Stacks for 16s, 15s CD >> Through Bow skills, Shield#5, F1 pull

If not cleansed = 5stacks can have 100% uptime. it equals out to only about an additional burn stack if the target does nothing and around 2 burn ticks per skill use. Bow is build for this rune, this build can cause confusion, poison, cripple, vurnability and burn all with one shot.

Sigil of Blight & Sigil of Doom
1 Stack for 3 1/2s, 8s CD
1 Stack for 14 1/2s, 10s CD

Where we get our immos and why they hurt:

Wrath of Justice
5 1/2s immobilize, 30s CD
3 1/2s chains of light, 20 sec CD

those longlasting immo are a great tool to let you opponent panic. you can set up sure hits for #2 and bow #2 as well as #4 and #5. If you want to keep control the build will kill slowly. However there is a combo for a burn burst if you managed to bait out cleanses and dodges:

17 burn stack rotation:
Starting in melee situations this works best.
tether, opponent with F1, put down purging flames, push back with shield #5, dodge or move out of PF, F1 pull the enemy across PF, weapon swap knock back with bow, #bow4.

The combo will cause you to not apply burn passivly for 15 seconds which is a hugh downside but if executed in full there migh not be 15 secs left on that fight anyway. however you can resort to your F3, retreat, shield #5, RF for burn off block.

Obviously this rotation can be played as a dps variant. with the test of faith trap.

The Build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNAT7elsAhmhY3QwUIwPELBElc539pvVActvZ2Q8gRIA-TVSHABEq+DvKPST3gsKxk+CAY7TAI39HuTJIAHEASBc3yK-w

cheers

Ghotistyx.6942:

There’s particular synergy with Protectors Strike, which blocks first, and then attacks on a delay, ensuring that whatever it strikes will take a VoJ passive along side it.

it also works well with shattered aegis

making it proc on minions would trivialize most encounters with a lot minions becasue of blind spam.

The VW ecounter is a different thing though.

Black Box.9312:

I’m toxic? Have you been reading at all? I’ve simply given my opinion, and only received hostility for it. Anything further from me was just for my own defense.

As for preordering HoT, even with my negative opinion of game preordering in general aside, why would I want to do that if I haven’t been actively playing GW2 for months now? I’ve played the occasional PvP match, but not much else. And I plan to keep my money until I know for certain whether or not HoT is something I want to invest on.

sigh
my neck hurts from shaking in disbelief

Andred.1087:

I can appreciate the new playstyle it brings to the class, as that’s exactly what they were going for. However, it’s pretty explicitly worse than base Guardian for high-level PvE content like Fractals, because imo, the only reason you should ever be ranging on a Guardian (again, in PvE) is if you absolutely don’t have the option of going all melee in a particular encounter.

Maybe they will make some changes that make it better, but idk if I will ever be able to get over losing insta-cast on the virtues. Too many time-critical uses for those effects.

why does DH means being ranged?
F3 + RF + bulwark + heal shout + Aegis heals can carry any group through anything.

thats like saying “guardian doesent make sense in most enounters because why would you want to bring a scepter?”

for pve I will probably go for a nice power build.

For WvWvW I might take this here for a spin:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNAseTnsABNDhFCBmCBkdilAiSu87+03KAeg3MbIewIE-TBSHABEq+DvK/STfg0HCAbfCA5u/wdKBB4EAEA4Agf/93xHf8SBAxwK-e

I am a sucker for condi duration. while I made a build with 100% I stumbled over an old friend: rune of perplexitiy.

with 10 sec CD knock back + F1 pull + Shield knock back, we can make good use of this rune.
putting long duration 8 stacks of confusion on a target while constantly applying three cover conditons will hurt a lot.

The hurtful combo:

bow until infight, proccing fire, cripple vurnability, poison, until melee >>
swap: poision, purging flames, knock back, confusion, cripple vurnability, burning, pull dodge back, f1 and pull through purging flames twice for 6 stacks, run back in purging flames drop elite …

let them die

this will also work quite well in a power build with test of faith and a power rune set.
gonna love the control we will get.

Jaxom.7310:

Nike.2631:

…and now for something completely different…

SUPERIOR RUNES OF THE DRAGONHUNTER

(1) +25 Power
(2) +10% cripple duration
(3) +50 Power
(4) 25% chance when struck to inflict cripple for 5 seconds. (Cooldown: 20 seconds)
(5) +100 Power
(6) +15% cripple duration, +25% move speed

((suggestion for new profession-complimentary runes for HoT))

(6) +7% dmg to crippled foes

w/ or w/o speed and i’d be a fan, maybe 5% dmg + speed

I would rather have vitality on it.

Carlin Sanders.3587:

has anyone considered this fun little trap combo i found?:

-judge’s intervention+symbol of wrath
-procession of blades
-whirling wrath

traited right this actually gave me a pretty decent AOE spike due to the sudden DPS. i’ll see if i can dig up what build i used for it later.

well if you would have found:

- Dragons maw+judge’s intervention
- procession of blades
- symbol of wrath
- whirling wrath

you would be basically where everyone else is that makes a trap/medi dps combo

There are many changes that could improve SW and leave them as they are now. (Well not really)

When casted without target they appear next to you. When casted with target Sword and hammer spawn at foes location immediately executing the command skill. Shield woul cast bubble right away when in combat, Bow cleanses condis on summon.

The cast needs to be instant or at least only 1/4 second

Ragnarox.9601:

Virtue of justice – Passive: gives 2 might every 5 sec , burn target every 5th attack
– Active: Gives 5 might + instantly burn target for 3k (cd 30 sec)
Virtue of Resolve – Passive : Heal guardian for 250 every 2 sec.
– Active : instantly heals guardian for 2k hp (30 sec cd)
Virtue of courage: – Passive: Gives aegis every 20 sec
– Active: give aegis (40 sec cd)

hmm I do not see the benefit on F1. It still wouldnt be that good to activate it. on top its pretty OP in WvWvW with traited radiance. you be throwing 1200 range unblockable 3k burn spears all over the place. the recharge trait is the main problem why the active will never be super strong.

I think condi cleanse on F2 should be baseline in self. if traited it extends to group and while being on passiv and increase the active heal.

Personally I think we could use the 25% movment speed in honor and tie it to one of the adept fall trait.

alternatively you can add it to shattered aegis: as long as you have aegis you have 25% movement speed.

not sure what to do with this information.

especially mace and septer draw their dps from #3/#2 and have the focus or torch offhand to add hugh junks of dps.

but thx for the test

StaticX.7695:

Asmodal.6489:

the chinese cuisine is probalby the most diverse in the world. There are so many dishes simply due to thousands of years of culture and land mass. You basically proved the point all the way.

you are thinking in stereotypes and what chinese Food represents for you in your horizon of knowledge. But really having no idea what baozi is or tastes like – or you did not consider it for your argument which basically leads to the same conclusion. You think you know. But really you do not or do not consider all options. Which is understandable chinese food in my country is exactly what you describe. But it is a very narrow way of looking at the whole picture espcially if you try to grasp what else might be out there.

I am Chinese and grew up on Chinese foods of all kinds, thank you… No, I’m not thinking of stereotypes, I’m thinking of my life where I had to bring cautious newbies to Chinese restaurants (not Panda Express) for the first time. You’re not missing a whole lot if you have exposure to the more common spices around the world (ginger, saffron, garlic, etc). There are a couple that might surprise you, but overall it’s really not that special.

Call it a bad example specifically with Chinese food, but the general principle of a professional cook being able to read a recipe for a dish and without tasting it, come up with a general idea of what it tastes like due to his/her exposure to difference spices from their own experience. It won’t be perfect, but it’ll be close enough to have an intelligent discussion. Which Black Box seems to be going from.

Your hertiage is really not the point. Actual experience is and the language, choice of words and comparison that go along. That being said how about we all agree that we are all wise kitten and and could spin this on and on. I might even admit that I set the example up to turn out this way.

I value Black Box passionate opinion in any case and we have seen that if we are vocal stuff changes. so lets continue to do that.

perspective is still important because there are enough people that read these forums and repeat everything unfiltered in one way or the other without actually forming an opinion for themselves.

StaticX.7695:

I think I’d be willing to give this build a shot, as well as Asmodal’s idea regarding zeal / virtues / DH trait line. When I first tried it out, it was boring as all hell personally.

there is no denying that it is boring but so is the current meta dps build for guards. besides spamming F1 in trash mob scenarios where you do not need it anyway it does not offer anything “interactive”. this might change in HoT.

StaticX.7695:

The biggest thing about the other Elite specs was that there was quite a bit of “wow” factor with them. Daredevil gets another endurance bar AND 3 different dodges with different effects! I mean, that alone is worth the trait line!

funny tha tinitially many thieves complained that getting something as elite that they can achieve with a sigil was pretty boring. But I think they are getting around as well.

StaticX.7695:

The list goes on, but guards get mediocre traps, arguably non-synergizing traits, minor upgraded virtues and longbow that is arguably no better than scepter. You can see why people are salty.

i really can not see it. lack of synergy is not for debate here. DH provides aegis, blocks, immobilize, F1 passiv activation on block, activ F1 damage boost, condi cleanse on block – all per trait. Where are the synergy great traits on reaper that have such a great synergy? They either synergize with the class mechanic (which we do have as well) o they are function without any other trait fine by themsleves. the strongest synergy is shivers of dread and that is a minor. there is no synergy they just add to exisiting mechanic. If DH has no synergy then reaper sure as hell dosent either.

StaticX.7695:

someone’s who’s familiar with the taste of oyster sauce, MSG, sweetened sauces, etc can likely form a fairly informed decision about the taste of a lot of chinese foods without having ever tasted it.

the chinese cuisine is probalby the most diverse in the world. There are so many dishes simply due to thousands of years of culture and land mass. You basically proved the point all the way.

you are thinking in stereotypes and what chinese Food represents for you in your horizon of knowledge. But really having no idea what baozi is or tastes like – or you did not consider it for your argument which basically leads to the same conclusion. You think you know. But really you do not or do not consider all options. Which is understandable chinese food in my country is exactly what you describe. But it is a very narrow way of looking at the whole picture espcially if you try to grasp what else might be out there.

###

Personally I think we can move past this issue because an opinion ist still an opinion. Its just important to put it in context of how it got formed.

With the new changes to the DH there are plenty other things worth talking about and seeing how things change it might be good to focus on constructive feedback.

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

If they want traps to be viable, they need to reduce cooldowns and add traits that allow them to do things like remove conditions or do some healing like monks focus but for traps.

They did half of that. Lights Judgement will be on a 30 sec CD.

OT:
The trap wokrs very well for burn burst builds when you jump a team fight.
I used it in conjunction with JI, Dragons Maw or FMW and Rune of the mad king.

It gets pretty sick and often enough I downed three players at once.
however the problem is its a one trick pony on a 45 sec CD and in 1vs1 situations your kitten nal is quite limited. So if you keep looking only for teamfights you might find yourself doing traveling more then is useful for the team. if your team knows what up when they see the snap of dragons maw it can lead to a coordinate aoe burst which turns around mid fights instantly.

With the new CD reduction it will be possible to use more often but with less impact.

To utilizes it you will always need an area lock down because people will peel very fast.
What DH does bring however is the cripple which prevents moving away too fast and with it vurnability. so basically two cover conditions which is helping to maintain the full duration of burn ticks more consistently.

Having three targets close together however creates insane amounts of burn stacks. In normal open world pve this is already overkill especially if you toss in a WW.

Zeppelin.6832:

Elementalists have the same problem, but it’s like whoever designed this elite spec has never even played a Guardian.

wait what?

I thought the major complain about tempest is that it brings nothing new to the class besides cool skill effects?

This is the opposite of the guardian problem. DH is so different that some people claim that is has no synergy which does not make any sense since the elite spec only makes up for 1/3 of the build but well.

I guess DH will remain an elite spec whoch you either love or hate. Just from pure damage numbers the traitline should be fine now.

Dear Karl,

I love all the changes. my only concern is the heal trap.
Personally I would prefer an effect that occurs when the trap is set. It should not be a boon since thats basically telgraphing what trap you just set. Condi cleanse seems most useful at teh moment.

Black Box.9312:

Obal has already said that DH is not worth taking in PvE anyway, so I’d be just fine doing it with a clean conscience.

to cool things off a little bit and actually get back on track I would like to respond to this since there have been further developments that are not taken into obals posts.

Status quo: DH will become part of PVE dps builds
Assuming optimal prerequisites in pve group encounters (talking melee here ofc) DH will now get 10% damage modifier from cripple, 7% without any prerequisites.

In addition we can have a 10% bonus over 6 seconds and a mechnic that will secure max stack of vurnability through BGH. What I am not aware of is if the damage modifier is for the whole team or not. That set aside I would argue that this is a nice little burst but to little to factor it in right now (I am sure Obal will consider it).

What the new changes did is pretty much bringing DH on par (if not more reliable due to symbol DT) with zeal in terms of damage modifiers that are not tied to a specific weapon.

So basically for PVE what will be tested is if DH is a higher dps boost compared to Radiance and Honor. Simply put: 25% crit chance vs. 10%+7% damage modifier.
Pretty sure that even with burning damage considered DH will come out on top.

IF this would be correct then DH/Virtues/Zeal is the new dps build coming with HoT.
I would argue that the utility of DH F3 is even better in some encounters.

I would also assume that mace/shield + mace /focus might be a better choice in terms of support an increasing the Uptime of aegis for UC – little as it may be and added survivability.

conclusion:
so I am sure that DH will play a role in PVE as a substitue for Radiance. even if the number do not turn out higher, DH might still prove itself to be more useful due to the access to hunters fortification for more condi removal. The pull could also be a good addition to drag trash into the kill box. Radiance does not offer any kind of group utility so its easily substituted. you could also substitue zeal if you are not running GS or mace (for wahtever reasons) and still be where you are now dps wise.

If you are agree to the statemens above then all this discussion about the traitline *DH being kitten pretty much was hanging at a 7% damage modifier. *IF you are still with me we can keep the discussion solely focused on giving traps the last edge they need so everyone feels fine.

And OT
Personally I think with new changes there are even more new ways to play DH more efficiently. The Pull will be godly especially if it is instant(which it should). Dragons Maw just became a lot more useful to set up a control trap combos.
Pulling the enemies in one spot to get a tether on all the targets and then pulling them into another trap for example.

dropping test of faith and purging flames infight. push back with shield 5, pull back with F1, mighty blow, knock back with banish. This is heavy control and damage.

Black Box.9312:

I don’t need to drop $50 to playtest the DH because I have more than enough hours on my Guardians to know that this is not at all what the class needs to remain competitive.

rofl
are you serious?? you are one the most vocal vocies against the DH and you have zero playtime on the elite spec?

You have literally no experience how the bow behaves, how the damage feels, what numbers you can actually produce, how traits connect and what not and you are dissing the elite spec and everyone who has even the slightest love for the spec.

you act like a know it all and yet you know nothing from first hand experience.

incredible. I do not care how much experience you have on the core class.
Thats like saying “I know how chinese food tastes. it sucks! I havnt had it yet but I am very well experienced at eating.”

Please put an “I assume…” infront of you posts from now on. jeezus.

Arutha.9874:

Asmodal.6489:

I have yet to see an example of how other classes have so much superior synergy that actually does not come directly from an extremely strong effect in the new traitline itself. You can argue that DH is underpowered compared to others but the synegy is there.

Well tempest aura sharing in water and scrapper juggernaut come to mind instantly.
As most people point out no other elite spec besides Dragon Hunter and Druid ask you to do something your profession has not been able to do before and only Dragon Hunter contains traits that literally punish you for going back to your standard methods(melee range) and fail to deliver complete gameplay at range due to zero options for ranged utilities.

Ele yes, scrapper no.

Mass Momentum is basically the same as hunters fortification. Its very strong but completely linear.

I take the ele no matter, this is superior synergy but compared to the overall elite specs also pretty unique. The aura part is extremely overdone compared to others. Auras where not a real thing before no they may be.

In terms of DH this would have ment boosting SW or Signets via DH line. A trap that spawns spirit weapons … with no command oh the crying. A trap that activats singnets actives … good stiff but rather boring and on top we only have two traits that cater to that mechanic.

Boosting Medis or shouts with a trap as secondary effect… well I would have taken that but really original is this not.

Black Box.9312:

Dirame.8521:

fireflyry.7023:

Dirame.8521:

fireflyry.7023:

This spec does nothing to compliment the Guardian play-style as originally promoted and actually goes totally against the grain with very little synergy, 3 years of timesink after the fact.

It’s either you just haven’t found the right build yet or maybe you haven’t even tried. But trust me, you are so wrong, the Devil would be envious of how wrong you are.

It’s not about right or wrong. It’s about subjective preference.

If that is the case then you should’ve worded your statement differently. To say the Dragonhunter has little synergy or does not compliment the Guardian entirely is wrong.

If your statement was “I don’t like the Dragonhunter’s synergies” then we’d be having a different conversation.

Except DH really doesn’t synergize with the base class. Hunter’s Fortification is just about the only thing that has any sort of cohesiveness with what we already have, and even that isn’t as reliable as things like Absolute Resolution and Pure of Voice/Rune of the Soldier. Hell, one of the new traits actually provides aegis on CC, which is literally something that the base class ALREADY HAS. It’s almost like they didn’t even look at what class they were dealing with when they came up with this elite spec.

OMG not that dead horse again ….
if Hunters fortification has synergies so does the whole DH Traitline.
Everything that causes a block synergizes with the core class and DH itself.
Every virtue has synergy with the core class. We od have knockbacks outside of DH and LB – hello shield my new friend. The only thing that DH has no deep synergies with are shouts and medis. And only shouts have a synergy between honor and valor.
where is the synergy between zeal and valor? Shattered aegis? please…
Where is the synergy between Virtues and honor? What makes honor and radiance a good combo that is far better then Radiance and DH?

Shouts are still good and medis are too if you want them. They do not contradict the traitline in any way.

I have yet to see an example of how other classes have so much superior synergy that actually does not come directly from an extremely strong effect in the new traitline itself. You can argue that DH is underpowered compared to others but the synegy is there.

Reading the posts here I feel I am listening to childrens arguments. A good sign that a true discussion is not possible any more. people want to see what they want to see and read accordingly.

Virutes behaviour is avalid point
Missing stun breaks are an issue
Utility depdencies are a general problem with guards
Usefulness of traps can be discussed and improved
Overall strength of the effect ar up for debate.

lack of synergy is not.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

So, Druid has 8% faster movement speed while nothing is happening and the others have 25% faster when it counts.

Guardian jumping in here …
Crying over the iscussion of first tyrianworld problem

To OP:
I think everyone can acknowledge that it is a kitten good movement trait with a downside. That does not mean its OP and should be nerfed merely because other classes have less. The 33% however do seem odd. It really should be 25% looking at the whole game. The 33% are not really logic.

on a side note: Its pretty rich that rangers have two options to get passiv speed where guardians still have none and in general practical weak acces to swiftness.

however this is the ranger forum and I am happy for druids to have such a cool trait. Resorting to make your own class better is a much nicer way to improve things then to cry for nerfs on something on ohter classes that is not game breaking at all.

I tested a build that takes blind to the maximum also using the new trap heal.

the heal component is not bad but it not reliable. IMO the full heal needs to be seperated from the trap mechanic. place the trap get healed. If the trap gets activated pulse 4 short blinds or give 3 secs of stealth.

right now any of our heals is better.

my thoughts from BWE3

Very unstructured but I learned a lot this BWE and I udnerstand a little bit better why some or many feel that DH is lackluster (which I still do not)
First the things that do not work in my experience:

Hunters Fortification
there is talk about the ne ICD which I am completely against. We have a lot of single blocks yes but using them to cleanse effectivly can not be steered 100% accurate. shelter and the DH F3 have the potential to clear and keep you condi free BUT only if you are attacke often enough. Shelter and F3 animations are obvious enough that opponents can just decide not to attack you leaving you with your condis as is.

That being said: Hunters fortification did not work at all for me as well. It did not cleanse anything.

LB #5
The delayed rings of warding have been mentioned before. the CD and casttime its too long to justify this behaviour. On top on many occassions the damage part of the skill did not even hit anything so the cripple does not trigger which lets targets move out of it even easier then it already is.

All in all in the heat of team battle I found the skill useful since opponents tend do not move out of it as much as I thought.

f3:
the skill is very strong however I find the casttime low as it is clunky. Given the long CD this is supposed to be a very strong effect (which it definitely is). if it is traited we are looking at a go to spec for bunker and support builds. but only if Hunters Fortification works since we sacrafice at least one traitine that is reponsible for condi cleanse (in all likely hood virutes). Just considering the skill I could live with the casttime by itself but looking at indomitable courage this needs to be instant.

what should be discussed:
DH feels as opposed to many others very fluid. I really wonder why there are so many different views on this. IMO it does a lot of things very well in terms of gameplay.

Many claim that LB#2 needs to lose the root. However I think the skill is too strong on a too short CD to justify this. It is basically a ranged mighty blow. I understand the concern that the animation is too telegraphing and that that causes enemies to avoid it actively. But as well in wvwvw as in pvp this is only an issue in 1on1 where you can not pin the enemy so it hits. We have the means to that and in all other situations its about positioning yourself. LB is not a 1on1 weapon.

However: pinning down the enemy should be something that our traps should provide. yet only our elite does it well. and the argument that this is hard to achieve since it forces you to go in close combat is absolutley valid. I have no solution for this but speccing into radiance or slotting signets shouldnt be the only options.

personally I think the JI nerf hit us hard there because it took hurts a lot of burst build options which are by default very glassy.

DH longbow shines both in dps and condi builds imo however any option requires heavy invest in traits that will cause you overall to be very squishy. this is no problem in zerg situations. However I think most people feel that because of this DH can not be all you could be as a Guardian. In terms of group utility F3 alone does not cut it for most people. The skill can be incredibly strong – game changing – if used at the right moment.

The issue becomes more crucial if you are into minmaxing small teams (pvp+raids)

DH can be a great addition to those teams but – what I did understand a lot better this last BWE – is that it kinda feels underwhelming when you choose a complete traitline to benefit from one strong ability on a very long coold down which might be negated by “hard content” that deals unblockable damage.

I guess this will be the case more often because 2 DHs on TS have the potential to trivialize most encounters providing 20 seconds of blocking any damage that is not based on a ground target.

With the F3 working as it is now I feel that any concerns about defenders dogama are unjustifed. arguing that it promotes keeping F1 on passiv is still true and a valid issue but the effect is defnitely useful. I wouldnt mind if it gets incorporated into Bulwark giving it offensive and defensive benefits. This frees a minor for which there are a lot of good ideas floating around. personally I would see a 25% movement speed while having aegis up trait there or getting 2 secs of resistance when aegis is removed. this would provide a lot of synergy within DH itself as with the valor traitline.

pure of sight is only relevant for LB, Scepter, Staff#3,#2, Hammer #3 and funny enough SW. DH needs a damage modifier. maybe this should be 5% at any range and 10% beyond the threshold – iI beleive it would calm most people down.

ZoroDaOtter.3859:

Asmodal.6489:

That really depends on what you want to do. i do not have that much time to play right now so I mostly goof around.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQRAse7flsAhmhY5QwUIQQEHzDV9BuyAweBrwim/iU8FB-T1hAABUcSAqW9HA3f4alfSqEEgnAQ06HIFwdLrA-w

this build is quite fun.

general idea is to use sword as a condi weapon. Purging flames, port in, push away, port in or hit from distance. the added aegis provides defense and in zerg or group scenarios massiv amounts of aoe damage and thorugh that aoe burns application. its fairly easy to apply 4+ stacks of burn on multiple targets with shield #4 alone.

rune of the mad kings is super strong against piled enemies which happens in pve all the time.

That’s a super squishy build and you’ll get blown up by some stray projectile in WvW. =\

thats why I led with “it depends what you want to do”. this build is mostly for exploring and non meta dungeon runs.

That really depends on what you want to do. i do not have that much time to play right now so I mostly goof around.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQRAse7flsAhmhY5QwUIQQEHzDV9BuyAweBrwim/iU8FB-T1hAABUcSAqW9HA3f4alfSqEEgnAQ06HIFwdLrA-w

this build is quite fun.

general idea is to use sword as a condi weapon. Purging flames, port in, push away, port in or hit from distance. the added aegis provides defense and in zerg or group scenarios massiv amounts of aoe damage and thorugh that aoe burns application. its fairly easy to apply 4+ stacks of burn on multiple targets with shield #4 alone.

rune of the mad kings is super strong against piled enemies which happens in pve all the time.

Veeman.5270:

This is a nerf to the synergy for Dragonhunter’s traited Wings of Resolve leap + Judges Intervention (for damage + 3 sec immobolize).

I had a build set up for this combo for BWE3.
added in glacial heart, damaging sigil procs, and rune of the trapper to use it from stealth.

I wonder what caused the “change”. It might have been the F2 combo.
If you follow up with mightyblow you probably could dish out around 12-15k if everything crits and the target is not getting away for another 2 seconds. but again you would be extremely glassy and a one trick pony on top of it.

All in all I also believe that after release Gurdian will not be top tier simply becasue the new stuf the other classes get seem very powerful at them moment where ors are solid but very basic in the mechanic and yes also in comparison a little boring.

We will have issues with the conditions. its not so much the damage part that i am worrie but the frequency and amount any class can push out now – ourselfs included. DH will constantly reaply vurnability, cripple and burn. other classes push out 4 or 5 at a time. we need our utilites to handle condi pressure and I fear that we will need hunters fortification and absolute resolution and pure of voice or Medis to keep condis at bay due to our low health pool. we need to get them off as quickly as possible.

so not much will change for us in terms of build diversity. huntersfortification is great and I can see builds just relying on the condi cleanse of block. but it will be risky business.

Black Box.9312:

Asmodal.6489:

Black Box.9312:

Asmodal.6489:

Black Box.9312:

The shield trait, granting180 self-toughness only while shield is out, is in direct competition with a trait that gives 150 toughness to yourself AND nearby allies AT ALL TIMES while in combat.

The trait is terrible.

fixed

No, not fixed. Even with Strength in Numbers aside, I’d still take a different trait over it.

might wanna work on you train of thought then. you only pointd out how its in competition with another trait. that does not make a trait terrible. its not a really good trait but its a lot more solid then several other traits that have zero takers.

I used Strength in Numbers purely as reference. Even without it, I still think it’s a terrible trait in general. They were supposed to have done away with the boring “gain X bonus stat when this weapon is equipped” with the specialization update, and if you look at any other weapon-based trait you’ll see that the additional effects they bring are far superior.

well, not on the guardian class

but you are right. except for our sword CD reduction trait I find most “side effect” underwhelming shield being the worst of all. I think its the nature of passivs.

just browsed through warrior weapons traits. We really do have the short end of the stick in several aspects.

Black Box.9312:

Asmodal.6489:

Black Box.9312:

The shield trait, granting180 self-toughness only while shield is out, is in direct competition with a trait that gives 150 toughness to yourself AND nearby allies AT ALL TIMES while in combat.

The trait is terrible.

fixed

No, not fixed. Even with Strength in Numbers aside, I’d still take a different trait over it.

might wanna work on you train of thought then. you only pointd out how its in competition with another trait. that does not make a trait terrible. its not a really good trait but its a lot more solid then several other traits that have zero takers.

I seriously do not have this problem that frequently but if its an issue then it should be resolved.

Nike.2631:

Greek.4396:

Druid = REAL backline support

Dragon Hunter was all but an illusion

When the new car smell is finally let out and people have an actual chance to kick the tires the Druid’s monomaniacal focus on green numbers is gonna wear thin fast.

The one thing is does incredibly well does not excuse the many things it does not at all..

Druid will be an interrupting beast from what I have seen. chaining 5 pbaoe dazes in 9 secs + a knock back while doing damage is interesting. The elite can be extremely OP and it is an elite on 20 sec CD.

the problem with singets is the same with traps and SW. We are depending on our utilites for sustain and condi cleanse in most game modes.

I think the perfect inscription idea os really cool but it would still rquire me to slot a signet. Going for Pure of voice and retreat would be a better choice.

ofc i love the radiance line for condi guard. the problem is if you want a focused dps build the GM options are all forcing you into one or another way.

I love the idea with retal aplying bleed. But then what. I have to decide between that and THE go to burn GM trait.

Perfect inscriptions needs to give a powerful but simmple effect like this:
- using a signet grants swiftness on you and allies.
- using a signet cleanses a condition on you and allies.
- using a signet recharges F2 (60 sec CD) > we have recharge traits for F1 and F3

It would create snergy with wrath of justice which would actually get some takers and make the radiance line in total a good choice for a dps guardian and the DH.

they could add a passiv here for 25% movement speed IF you have a passiv signet slotted. i would hate it on my burn guard but I could live with it.

I am not for passivs at all but guard really needs the speed one. There is no reason anymore to deny us a movement trait.

Silberfisch.3046:

Ghotistyx.6942:

Silberfisch.3046:

But thinking in PvE tems, a short duration block like that is most useful to react to a telegraphed attack. That usually leaves you with a very short reaction window though. And a 1/2 second cast makes the Shield of Judgement not entirely feasible for that task.
I would propose to reduce the cast time to 1/4 of a second or even remove it entirely. The latter might prove too strong though, which is why I included the 1/4 second suggestion.

It just requires a better knowledge of your encounter. In PvE, that’s something you can learn and predict. In pvp, it’s already prediction mindgames anyway.
[…]

The better knowledge works fine for slow cast attacks and maybe medium cast attacks, like the Ettin’s in the uncategorized fractal for example, but for anything fast on the other hand, like Lupicus’ kick for example, even someone who knows the encounter inside and out will be hard pressed to bring up that aegis in time with the half second cast time.
And again this is where I think a skill like that is supposed to shine. But that’s my personal opinion and maybe in the upcoming HoT content the attacks that warrant the use of a shield and this skill will have cast times that allow a good use of it. So it might be this is what the change was made in mind with.

it is a valid point but playing with it some more I think it is okay as it is. i wouldnt mind the improvement and really 1/4 of a sec is not that big of a deal (i would also take the instant application of aegis while casting the rest of the skill)

funny enough i found myself using F3 more actively with the new shield while testing a build on champs and vetrans. It has become an obsession to chain blinds and aegis even more efficiently so I do not get touched at all.

on a side note:
my favorite offensive rotation on S/T + S/S works better with #5 now more then ever.

Torch #4, Scepter #2, #3, swap, purging flames, JI, Shield #5, sword #3, #2, AA

I still think this change is an excellent example of how skills should work and encourage smart rotations for guardians. Give us more now.

Gyuforce.8291:

Not a very good excuse, aegis shows up on the enemies status bar.

not really an excuse. its a definitive reason.

however imo its not even noticeable enough. maybe I am not that hardcore but I can not see this effect in the heat of combat and make decision upon it. Even the buff bar is not a good visual pointer. its too small. 5 boons and you need too much time to deduct wahts up and whats not.

Since this is more of a fluff problem the best soultion is to simply have a seprate visual effects toggle for aegis on yourself and/or enemies – but who cares if they look stupid.

Black Box.9312:

The shield trait, granting180 self-toughness only while shield is out, is in direct competition with a trait that gives 150 toughness to yourself AND nearby allies AT ALL TIMES while in combat.

The placement of the trait is terrible.

fixed

Meridius.5197:

Yeah EFWinters, you got a point there.

Guardians virtues are very underwhelming with theses high cds even if they are traited

Sorry but thats bullkitten

Arnath.2319:

I am with Azure, no word on fixing Traps in months. Last Beta weekend and they are still 100% useless.

Our only hope is if they have been secretly working on a revamp in the background, hopefully we will get some news on that after this beta.

Months… Presented in Detail August 10th … Months … It hasnt even eben months since reveal.

This is exactly the reason for this exponential level of QQ. Exaggurations. DH will be good.

Shield is awsome now. What little change what great joy. Burn guard with sinister and shattered aegis … Right timing in SW VW event…. 4 aoe x 5 targets 10+ Cascading aoe burns … Combat log overheating.

First i thought the duration of the aegis is to Low. It would geht op fast if it was longer …

This change brought us a build option for condi and dps builds. Adding wrathful Spirit and AH on a 16 sec CD is somerhing worthwhile. CD reduction trait is now awsome. Yes thoughness is Kinda redundant. Remote it and add 3 sec resist boon. Shield will be best in Slot.

i would rather see them fixed. there are a lot of good suggestions out there. for example they shoud be summoned at target location activating their command right away if you have a target. Hame would be a very good cc skill simply for this effect.

passivs are boring

Skyline Crash.6254:

Asmodal.6489:

Skyline Crash.6254:

Asmodal.6489:

1. I think this is a problem of the “blade fan”. however since they pierce and are able to produce 9 hits in total I would say this is an exceptable downside.

2. #2 already has no cast time. making it truly instant could be interesting however I do not see a lof of additional uses besides with torch off hand.

3. #3 is more of a defensive skill (could be better yes). a dps loss is not so much of a problem if the defensiv effect would be better (more range + homing). removing the root would still be good. looking at all the new skills that are getting introduced a rooting effect on a skill is only valid if the effect is very strong.

What would help this skill more then anything is an actual block effect and not an absorb.

personally i feel that sword became more of a condi weapon due to its rapidly application of passiv F2. it will be interesting with DH and supreme justice since it will let you stick to a cripple target pretty kitten efficently.

9 hits in total? How so? To bosses or something?

3 piercing projectiles, each hitting 3 targets max.

eh well, look how much damage it does, just a little bit more than the final strike of GS.

the 9 hits are more relevent to activate passiv burn procs. which is an indirect dps boost ind some situations. same goes for torch #5. Mind you always having Permeating wrath and supreme justice in mind which have high cost of opportunity.

go norn or go home