Guild Wars 2

Black Box.9312:

snip

all of what he said.

ArchonWing.9480:

Asmodal.6489:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNApeWl8AhWhY/OwUIQQEHLEU++7v/4E0hScDwDGAA-TRCEAB6o8ZIlQU/MwXIwEiBKBba/BFV/pD9BAcCAIFgXTtA-e

Can they beat this

I sure hope they could, because honestly, I think this isn’t a good build. And I’m not saying this because it’s not meta. I have tried to use all kinds of mace builds from healing to communal shatter. I really want mace to become viable in group wvw, but the reality is that fights are too mobile.

Although I suppose this might be for smaller fights. However, your lack of mobility would hinder you even more.

You have weak condi removal. No purging flame means you really have no burst condi removal aside from expending your f2 and this creates further issues. And, you are taking save yourselves with 0 -condi duration. Plus you’re using a shield, which pretty much means you don’t have an offhand. You stuffed your weapons with worthless boon duration doubloons when you could put sigils that would make a bigger impact. I could accept it just being in some jewelry but not your weapons.

So you’re really only stuck with backline healing/support but you’re vastly inferior to any ele or standard warrior and they can actually hurt the opposition, either with range or with gap closer. You don’t have any of this.

I would suggest something like this instead.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNApfWl8AhWhYzQwcIQQEHJEVeG+vAE3AhQKcLgA4AA-TxCEABRpkwJlYcpE0gTAATKFaa/BFV/RLlBdoPAgDBwDPBASBskUL-e
At the very least, torch will remove conditions with still decent healing and boons. Damage sucks, but still comparable to the previous build.

I agree on most accounts.

simply because the build I posted wasnt ment for a WvWvW scenario or anything in particular (since that was not specified anyways). I didnt put it together for this thread. – I was just seeing how far I can take boon duration(100%) and put as much boon sources as possible in it – hence the shield for a pretty long lasting protection buff. so the build just fitted the question somewhat.

The build was not ment to be a discussion about its performance but a fast comparison of what a guardian could do for support when pushing boons to the limit. However if we are talking about serious builds then more then 50% boon duration is clearly a bad choice.

pretty much on the same page of “its too early to tell”.

Well I made a 100% boon duration build.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNApeWl8AhWhY/OwUIQQEHLEU++7v/4E0hScDwDGAA-TRCEAB6o8ZIlQU/MwXIwEiBKBba/BFV/pD9BAcCAIFgXTtA-e

Pros:

• 40% haste uptime
• 45% stability uptime
• 100% every other boon except resistance
• Party boons
• Great sustain
• Great condi heal
• incredible Support
• 45% crit Chance
• avarage 15 might stacks (Using dumplings)

Cons:

• reduced and overall low stats.

Basic thought: two guards like this an pretty much cover every Party Need

Disclaimer: prolly Just a Goofy build – i dont Even Know anymore. Good Night.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNApeWl8AhWhY/OwUIQQEHLEU++7v/4E0hScDwDGAA-TRCEAB6o8ZIlQU/MwXIwEiBKBba/BFV/pD9BAcCAIFgXTtA-e

Can they beat this

I assume this is about pvp…

#yes, good stuff. Love it to dish out a fast empower on bunker builds.
#spirit weapon builds are tricky. I would have loved to see them be able to be comboed of with shattered aegis and comunal defense but since the first competes with SW master it does not work. generally idea of bringing you own army to the fight to bounce of AH cant work this way. also SW HP is even more of a problem now then before.
#no. I could see it working in a point defense bunker build(as alaways) but it faces the same problems as always. they are too static.

1. ilove it.

i would add that you can check for symbols before bursting. its not very likely to encounter a guard in pvp with traited symbols and high damage setup but they are a decent counter against shatter clones when paired off with smite conditions and mace 3 since the pbaoe damage might kill the clones before they reach the target – especially if they have different travel range to the target. Hammer guards might cast ring of warding and move away from incoming clones.

All of this however is really only a problem if screw up the burst set up. In most cases there is not enough time or damage to prevent the clones with their radius to hit successfully.

What might hurt your play is permeating wrath and your clones not being at full health when they charge. if you stay further away from you clones you should be fine.

shelter is superior in many scenarios. I am just happy that we can chose between three heals now instead of only two. Litany is much more fun in pve and thats all there is to it.

Its the same with feel my wrath. awsome skill yet RF is superior in many competitive scenarios.

Shifu.4321:

0/0/3/3/3

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

although they just get better

I would ditch save yourselfs for hold the line. Shorter and way less suicidal. Personally with this setup I think staff can be a nice alternative if You Need too quickly changes to a bunker setup.

Dont do divinity runes

Since you can swap balthzar or whatever condi rune for travelers and fill the condi duration gap with food you can porbably not go wrong with any of these builds that run carrion.

Linfang.1087:

Does this build convert well over to PVE like world and dungeons bosses? Also I know people vary a bit on armor, from Carrion to Sinister, to just keeping their original berserkers.

I think in dungenos you wouldnt need the vit at the moment. Thinks die so fast you can go full offense and should be fine.

build works well in dungeons I believe – but again anythin works these days.

LCV.7245:

Unless these ravens I summon every 30 seconds are dropping mad burning stacks, I’m missing out on a lot of dps.

They do but they are situational. The way you described your playstyle they might actually be fitting.

If you jump in a fight with three target (or minions, companions, clones) the elite activation will cause 3x hunters cal which summons 3 birds attacking each target 16 times. if they are close together its a 16 stacks of burn on each target IF they do not block move away or whatever.

Since you are on speed and they are too its not very likely.

you sacrafice 50% burn duration however. so its really a question of playstyle and preference.

Evilek.5690:

LCV.7245:

Oh! you meant in a single tick. I was hitting around 12k last night.

Here’s my build:
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=VBg-3l;0NFF3093oGV90;9;4ONQ;0046157236;4E7o210;05NV05NV01H

Burning is low duration burst condition thats all, you must hit all spells on this. Poison,confusion and bleeding make more total DMG.
Power build make more DMG and better burst when hit all spells =)

I guess that is the reason why everyone is crying about poison, confusion and bleeding.^^

burn condi burst is so strong at the moment that you do not need any of the other condition – at least on guard and ele.

LetoII.3782:

Giving burning and 3 might stacks to your whole group is fairly powerful, especially if used to blind a stomp so you get it right back.

If any virtue needs an improved passive, it’s justice.

what?
you want more then 2 secs of burning every 5(3) hits?

Let’s not get greedy.

Fashion Mage.3712:

MelGT.8326:

It hasn’t changed, it was always affected by Meditation traits, because it’s been a Meditation skill since it came into the game. The only extra it got was from Smiter’s Boon (cast Smite Condition when you use a heal skill) which certainly added to it, but it’s always had the extra heal, Fury and CD reduction when traited.

Nope, I’m 90% sure that its cast time was reduced (I’m sure that’s what OP meant by “CD”).

Edit:

Litany of Wrath: Reduced the casting time of this ability from 0.75 seconds to 0.25 seconds.

LetoII.3782:

12k health is a huge risk, even at full health you’re one-shottable. Knight also offers less power as toughness is it’s primary, Assassin offers precision as it’s. Baseline power is more valuable than precision or ferocity. Same with a bit of vitality, as being dead negatively affects DPS.
A few soldier pieces will give you a bit of uh-oh factor, and add more power over knight or assassin.

one shot means one ability in my book which requires the removal of our inital aegis. If it is made up of several hits then we by defalut block two (another one at 50%) of them when traiting valor.

it is my impression that this is quite enough wiggle room to respond with a dodge in most cases.

WvWvW is a diffrent story. I wouldnt run that glassy there.

I think you should be able to be rewarded with more then 10 stacks for smart play or stupid play on your opponent.

10 stacks only happen right now if you blow everything. Scepter#2 +torch#5 + JI + PF and oly if you trait supreme justice which comes as we all no wit a big trade off in trait selection.

yes you can ramp up insane ammounts with Mad king runes but there are counters to it even if it is disengageing or simply dodging twice or block or whatever.

Radiant fire is a bit broken and I think this could be toned down to two stacks.

I thinkit is fair to say that all the fuss about the burn on block nerf was a bit unjustified seeing what we can do now without it. yet nobody will admit to that in fear of the nerf bat.

messiah.1908:

burning guard as much as i loved to play it before this patch become so worng

30-40 burning stacks can down any zerk class in 1 sec

yes.

But guardian can not achieve that in a realistic scenarion so this is actually not the problem. I really do not think the problem is the number of stacks (building them up is is fun) but the damage tied to it – or the other end of it the relatively low HP on every class. tone down one up the other and find a good balance. remove/balance some of the “broken” mechanics (I only see two at the moment) and guadian is in “good spot”.

Just wanted to express my feelings.

The Litany of Wrath is Awsome with traited medis. The CD reduction makes it finally fun to play with.

With the damage we dish out at moment i also feel that it really has a place aginst shelter. pair it with stability and you burst and your almost invurnable in a lot of situations.

good times

Why no zealous Scepter?

you are going for kindled Zeal in the zeal traitline so the 7% damage modifier is kinda of lost on me if you are going for the highest burn number possible. Torch 5 got an extreme damage boost. and on top can dish out 5 mights stacks easily even against one target.

I would question the Sigil of bursting. yes it ups the burn tick but damage and utility wise i feel that there are better options.

- Sigil of fire: additional hits for passiv VoJ
- Sigil of geomancy: additional hits and condi damage

and again:

For condi burst Mad King Runes seems better to me. although I can see that going for 100% burn duration instead of 50% has its merits.

misterdevious.6482:

One Activation in a group (4s x 5 allies) does the same damage as 10 passive triggers (2s x 10 triggers). If you are not built to land lots of fast hits, the Active is often a good choice in a group… it just doesn’t look very strong because the majority of the damage is on the burning attacks that you are giving to your allies.

This is what active Justice does now:

• Your next attack does a 4s burn (within 20 seconds).
• 4 Allies also do a 4s burn on their next attack (within 20 seconds).
• 25s cooldown

This is what you can do with active Justice now:

• It can be refreshed on every kill if traited.
• It can blind nearby foes if traited.
• It can grant 3 stacks of might to you and 4 allies if traited.
• It can heal you for over 1k if traited.
• It can grant you retaliation if traited.
• Each active burn can be extended by 1 second with Supreme Justice (2s with +100% duration).
• 21.75s cooldown

my thoughts exactly… why is this even a topic.

you actually forgot a little something:

- 3 Stacks vurnability
- Protection (with DH)

and I wouldnt count supreme Justice becuse it actually makes the passiv a lot better damage wise

given that if you do not trait it (or dont consider the trait options) I understand that you can think it feels a little week since you can not see what it does so obviously.

The activation is not primarily about damage imo. the group effect is simply there to compensate the dps loss. Its what you get in addition to it that maks it strong.

to translate the list above to outline the benefit a bit better:

- secure stomp (and immediate refresh)
- heavy hit counter
- (group wide 3% damage boost)
- passiv damage boost through 90 power/condi
- instant aoe or dd damage feedback
- (sustain)

the sustain is not really a factor since you need a whole traitline just for that competing with your best in slot utilites at the moment. The damage buff requires zeal which competes with a GS master so I would strip that too.

The rest is optainable with the too most popular traitlines at the moment.

This is a very stong active
if you are always looking for pure damage it definitely is not the stongest option but do we have to evaluate everything on dps?

You are crazy.

I lay a hybrid guard since Patch and i do have the Feeling that I just melt stuff and Even a Little faster then most. However there several Job anyone can do like carvan escort

not really sure but my biggest regret is that a very interesting build does not work.

I think a SW build with Shattered aegis would have been something viable. Add in communal defense and AH you would have a great setup snce ou can bring at least one ally along all the time. Top it off with rune of the ogre and you might be able to set up 4 Shattered aegis by yourself.

Zeal, Valor, Honor could have been a thing – traiting shouts and Pure of Heart in honor with Retreat and FMW gives quite the sustain and keeps the SW longer alive.

spirit weapons with haste are pretty kitten cool and stack quite a bit of burn.

however…. since SW and Shattered Aegis are competing for GM its not going to happen.

I would say it is still viable, however hammer is slow weapon and the damage that is flying around at the moment doesnt really work well with a slow weapon.

everyone is burned down really fast at the moment.

However a JI + Ringof Warding + Feel my wrath and hammer chain does hurt quite a bit.

Angina.9314:

Saiyan.1704:

Angina.9314:

Saiyan.1704:

Permeating Wrath and Supreme Justice is what makes Mad King rune’s so powerful.

I am lost here … please elaborate. Mad King rune is about bleeding duration ?

There’s an effect that activates when an Elite is used. The rune sends crows (they’re really eagles) to attack foes. The rapid hits procs can hit a max of 3 foes simultaneously, procing F1 burns.

Still, i find Balthazar rune far better, due to aoe burn when heal skil is used, making traited Litany of Wrath nuclear strike (24 sec cd, with dmg from Smite, and tripple heal)

If you are using the term nuclear strike for althazar Runes, Mad King Runes is the last judgement in comparison.

17 hits on 3 targets with permeating wrath and supreme justice is 17 aoe burns in 2-3 secs in a best case scenario when the enemies are huddled together and do not disband. This doesnt even factor in your own hits or JI which combos extremely well with the elite + MK Combo. Basically you hit both keys at the same time. You port in and bring the hammer down. you can even combo it off with a ring of warding to make sure you keep them where it hurts.

damage wise MK Runes are 4x(!) stronger.

If you go full glass its even more stupid. Swapping Valor for zeal and having a scepter equipped you can add 17 stacks of instant might to the equation.

And dont forget Balthazar runes will need your heal tor trigger. so it cant be used as offensivly – why would you sacrafice a heal to deal damage?

Your “nuclear strike” is a joke compared to the bird bomb.

same here ……

Indoles.1467:

Is it just me or should virtue passives never turn off. Why do they need to function like signets? They aren’t even that strong in the first place.

this is actually a valid point. I only see a problem for VoJ. With the increase in burn duration and the combination of DH and the Signet of Wrath on activation it might get a little over the top. VoR and VoC passives are not that strong but little pieces that help in the sum of all things.

Fashion Mage.3712:

I’d rather have another source of stability (assuming I’m using shouts) and a stunbreak instead of a healing aura that won’t be active 80% of the time.

this.
Virtues GMs are either Permeating Wrath which will have the whole build center around it or the additional (or only) stun break and stability which is awsome and superior to both other choices in any build in any game mode.

Battle presence needs more the a 30% regeneration buff an 15% vigor (for which you need another traitline) simply because its too weak and does not synergize with absolute resolution – the best trait we got in that line anyways.

if Battle presence would work like written in stone for virutes it would at least be a considerable choice for pve and solo play without feeling like a wasted slot. Most would still rather take indomitable courage in pvp and WvWvW

Battle *Pressence
Maintain the passiv effect of virutes when you activate them. Allies recieve VoR effect. VoR grants 15% endurance regen.

This would also mean they could reinstate Elusive Power in Honor.
I think everyone would sign off on this change.

Ragnarox.9601:

Asmodal.6489:

Still looking fortward to 5 guardian gvg team, all playing communal defense, pure of heart and shouts and Altruistic healing and burn on block.

And then 5 eles comes 5 fresh air and kills guards one by one in 10 sec.

You Must be Fun at Parties.

personally i think they might be more viable now. Enough to make them worthwhile? We will see

SrebX.6498:

That’s actually awful, I doubt the pvp meta Medi Guardian build will be viable anymore.
Also pretty much any build on any game mode that doesn’t use vit gear would be worthless. Except maybe pve zerker meta

What is discussed here has nothing to do with the medi Meta build.

Or 3 stacks per block

Pssst … Rune of the guardian

Wouldnt rune of the guardian be also a good addition if you Run a block centric build?
Smart blocking will hurt the Opponent Even more and maybe the rune has no ICD

If might of the Protector had 3 stacks i could live with it. Burn After block world be VERY
strong but looking at other classes. They got hefty Stuff too.

Switch the trait with shattered Aegis and give the latter aegis on crit with a 10 sec cooldown. The trait makes no sense in radience except for the name

DrPhro.5976:

They’re increasing the stats of gear to make up for that loss.

Doesnt really do anything if you use clerics

Still looking fortward to 5 guardian gvg team, all playing communal defense, pure of heart and shouts and Altruistic healing and burn on block.

The healing on mace Mastery should at least be separate from wielding a mace. So it wouldnt Feel like a total Loss in pve if you run this traitline without mace

this needs more bump

misterdevious.6482:

Birdbomb

• Mad King Runes (Birds hit 3 enemies 16 times each)… 45 second cooldown.
• That’s 48 hits… so 9 passive triggers of justice or 16 passive triggers of justice (traited)
• Each passive hit of justice can trigger a 5 target AoE burn (traited)
• Each passive hit of justice can grant you 10 seconds of Might if you’re wielding a Scepter with the new scepter trait.
• Combine with Dragonhunter traps that hit really fast and also apply bleeding.
• Remember this is all happening extremely fast due to Quickness.

I’m not playing like that… and I’m afraid of the people who will.

Got that build already set up.
As long as HoT is not out DH I will be substituted for valor (or radiance as an obvious choice)

however, add communal defense, shattered aegis, courageous return, RF and retreat as utility there might be another fun (probably not viable) WvWvW build option there.

Alpha.1308:

i don’t wanna read all of the posts but upon quick searching i saw no mention of “5 guards” or “100% quickness uptime”
can we taco bout this
5 guardians rotating this for 100% quickness uptime when traited/possible boon duration in place of trait

for pve you do not even need to rotate it. haste is a buff now. it stacks in duration.

It amazes me how most of you feel entitled to judge the value of the expansion in general. The comparison with WoW expansion is so flawed it actually does not even make sense to start.

Yet everyone who compains he/she was a veteran and stuck by the game seem to forget all about the content anet released since launch… zero cash involved, everthing achieveable with ingame currency.

Now we look at an expansion that will feature as far as we no:

- a new class with 60+ skills
- Specialisation mechanic (to be increased in the future)
- 9 new specialisation with 11 new skills each (99)
- 9 new traitlines with 12 traits each (108)
- New weapon and armor skins for each specialisation
- a map that is designed to hold the content of 3
- 7 new Masteries with several new abilities (flying being one of them)
- Precursor crafting
- guild halls concept
- 2 guild hall maps (probably to be increased in the future)
- 2 new crafting professions
- new guild armor and weapons
- GvG Arena including a leaderboard
- Dueling
- Housing + Customisation
- Guild Action perks for WvWvW
- Complete overhaul of the influence system catering to smaller and bigger guilds alike
- (challenging group content)
- new PVP mode stronghold
- new WvWvW area complete overhaul of the mechanics
- new siege equipment

On the way to this expansion they are overhauling the complete core specialisations system including
yes this should be considered as part of HoT since it sets up the future direction and woul have been obsolete if there was no HoT

_ I am sure If forget something you might wanna check here: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_2:_Heart_of_Thorns they actually could enhance this list quite a bit_

And what people are crying for is basically :

- I want 6 more maps
- I want 6 dungeons
- I want a free character slot
- I find it unfair that new people do not have to pay 50 bucks for a three year old core game

>> otherwise 50 bucks is not worth it at maximum 20!!!!

And all of that on a game without a subscription fee.

mind blowing

KotCR.6024:

EDIT: Why does a numerical forty-five get censored to ‘kitten’? Odd forum coding indeed.

guess they already knew you wanted to write a *s*illy *s*illable

If you want an easy fix make the shield trait cure two conditions in a 600 radius on allies and/or 3 secs of radiance.

You then can keep the CD. (Dont get me wrong I would still take it)
Shield will be used and stuff like spirit weapons, conscrations and traps might actually have a fighting chance to see game play.

As it is now you can never go full Spirit weapons or traps because you will have at max one condi cleans option on a long cooldown. we need to run either medis or shouts to be viable in pvp and WvWvW. that locks us in Traitlines and utilites like no other class.

probably because it hurts and benefits all classes alike. It does not change the fact htat we have no skill that evades.

If anything I think this guards are hurt less by it in comparison to other classes because we have many other option to avoid single attacks on demand without dodging.

Maybe I am not hardcore enough to encounter these problems or simply let them ruin my day.

you are 100 % right. Without shield buff there is no reason to take the shield trait ever.

Shout is awsome

snoow.1694:

savacli.8172:

Asmodal.6489:

snoow.1694:

3rd We have the WORST way of sustaining despite being a defensive Class -

Prepared a long answer. read this and deleted everything.

I ran into the same issue is why I settled with my shorter answer.

I say the same to you, what I said to Asmodal.6489

“Let me explain, Guardians aren’t the most versitile class in GW2 and our Sustain consists only in our EXTREMLY HIGH potential of Healing ourselfs, Condition Cleanse, our Boons and our Blocks/Blinds. But how good are these ways of sustaining in Structured PvP? The Blocks/Blinds are pretty good, the condicleanses are also pretty decent,the boons are also okay, but there is only one problem, THE HEALS.
Healing in SPVP just isnt a reliable Way of sustaining, cause you will NEVER be able to outheal the Damage you take. I would love to rely on an other way of Sustaining, but there are pretty much no Way of playing something else, because there are only 2 Skill Types playable for Guards.
The best Sustain is AVOIDING the Damage, because you will NEVER outheal it”

We have the Most on the demand. skills to actively avoid single hits in the game. On top we have access to a invurnability skill and a 2 sec block it all that heals us. We can trait for max vigor uptime. We have good Access to staility to escape lock down situations. We have three blinks that require skill to use defensively. We have three options to deny movement without stability. 2 active knockbacks.

What am I missing here?

Black Box.9312:

Currently with burning duration as is, by using the active you can apply 5 sec burning * 5 players, which is 25 seconds of burning, which is typically less than or equal to the cooldown of the virtue. With the current meta build, this also blinds the enemy, applies 3 stacks of vulnerability, and grants 3 might to allies.

With the changes, it’s unlikely that PvE meta will use Radiance, which means no blind, no vulnerability, and no +20% burning duration. This is compounded by the fact that with burning stacking in intensity, activating the virtue will grant 5 stacks of burning for 5 seconds, which leaves about 15-20 seconds of downtime where Fiery Wrath is entirely useless.

So at best? You can get decent burning uptime with VoJ passive at the cost of losing a ton of utility. That alone counts as a pretty hefty nerf to Fiery Wrath, albeit maybe an indirect one, if you ask me.

Also how exactly are you going to get +100% condi duration in PvE? I must have missed something important if that’s the case.

Excuse me: burn duration of course – achievable in many ways.

You dont get decent uptime with passiv VoJ. You get 100%.
with the active you have a point but seriously … You Base your argument on the fact that radiance is “most likely” not pve meta anymore? Why again is that? Because of the lack of one 10% damage modifier, kitten loads of crit Chance, and more burn damage that actually work now twords dps?

I do not See the “hefty” nerf its 3% less. Thats it.

Luckily our arguments might be moot in a week or two. in the end our whole class Drops Out of the " Meta" ^^