We had same discussions with Scarlet invasion on LA event. It was great to get so many chests for doing nothing. Frankly, they don’t care about fixing their reward coding. Why should I care about other players then?
I don’t play SW, unfortunately GW2 has become a zergfest all day long. However the only place I can understand making afk reportable offense is PvP environment. In open world pve punishing ppl for being afk is clearly an overreaction.
Solution? Fix rewards. Or make 11111111 2 111111 “raids” instanced so ppl can kick afkers. And fix rewards.
P.S. fix rewards.
You’re missing that there’s a difference from being AFK on the map and being AFK at an event that can be scaled by you being there.
On this site http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warming_Grawnk%27s_Heart at the very bottom You can read “You can still finish the scavenger hunt and feed Grawnk the delicacies after Wintersday 2014 ended.” But I don’t see neither Grawnk nor Orphan. I checked dreamer’s terrace with my salad and Salma District with my human. Any possibility to get SoG? I was quite happy to see i can get Orphan’s gift and now i’m not ;s
I was online for few hours during wintersday if this matters.
They had a blog post which I could link if you do not believe me. This blog post was also linked into the news feed you see every time that you log into the game. All active players would have seen this. You then have this spread across the forums and reddit by other players. It was discussed a lot on map chat when the blog post was released just like all of their other blog posts have been. You also had the YouTube bloggers who made videos about it. Various gaming websites also did articles about the change.
The information was very widespread and available to active players.
Oh, I believe you, and even generally agree. But, you’ve made the opening poster’s point for him: 2 emails, 1 blog (that aged out of visibility 2 days later), and a mention in another article. That’s all there was to highlight this in the form of basic communication. If one missed both emails, and were casual enough that one didn’t notice the blog, one didn’t know about it.
Now, you make the point that if one visited the forums or reddit, it was all over the place. But, that’s my whole point and part of the OP’s: those are NOT casual gamer sites.
But, I do agree overall with your statements. It’s just this minor point I quibble with.
What else are they supposed to do? Call each player on their phone regarding every update? They’re expecting way more than what really should be done.
It should be a reasonable balance of the two. Basically, some activities can be more or less rewarding than others, obviously, but any activity in the game that involves a reasonable amount of challenge and engagement should provide roughly the same amount of reward on average, and no such activities should provide either negligible reward or significantly over the top reward.
Relative to this discussion, the TP should not provide rewards magnitudes higher than the same amount of time invested in any other aspect of the game, nor should any other activity. If, say, Dry Top farming were to offer 50g per hour, I think players could reasonably complain that it was too heavily favored over other activities. That was the problem with the Destiny Loot Cave from a player perspective, that it offered so much loot relative to other activities that it made them seem like a waste of time, even if players did not find the loot cave particularly enjoyable. And that’s the problem the TP causes now, that players feel compelled to spend time working it because of the massive reward potentials, even if they do not find the activity to be a particularly enjoyable experience. It becomes work rather than play.
Mr. Ohoni.6057 is right. I’m on a lv 10 warrior, and I would like to make money from mining these copper ores as the players who sell orange and yellow color armors on the market house. I think I’m up to 20 silver, and I still can’t afford to buy yellow rings. If I can get 50g per hour playing, I think this game would be a good place.
Think this through first. If everyone can make 50G/hr, what do you think will happen to prices for everything?
Before ANet will decide to act, it would help to identify what the issue is. In my opinion, there are very, very few situations in which AFKers affect my ability to enjoy the game and complete content. Silverwastes is not one of them; I have yet to be on a map that failed primarily (or even likely) because of AFKers.
Mind you, I dislike it when people leech like that, but if they want to risk having their account banned for “botting” (even if it’s a small risk), then that’s their choice.
I’ve had tower defend events fail because they were scaled so far up that it was incredibly difficult for the handful of people actually doing the events to kill them. Every try to kill a teragriff that has become an HP sponge while simultaneously being attacked by a dozen other mordrem that have made it through the gates and walls? It’s gotten to the point where I see people AFK, mainly at that corner inside Amber, I just don’t bother and let the event fail.
It’s the same for defending your lanes. It’s easy to get swarmed when they get scaled up and I have been in several instances where the entire lane wiped as a result and just bled carriers. Imagine doing any of the eight bosses with one third of the players present not participating. Do you think you’d have enough DPS to make up for it?
Careful with how you calculate costs. A couple of them, damask in particular, provide a profit to the seller. Including this distorts the cost differences between sets.
Last time I looked into trying to craft or flip Damask, I found out that the returns barely covered the cost for posting it on the trading post, and sometimes I would even go into the red if I attempted it. Despite its high cost, there is simply not a reliably inexpensive way to farm cloth like there is for ore and wood, meaning you are buying gear to salvage or the materials themselves. That, and you need 300 silk cloth to make one Damask, never mind the other materials too, and silk is bloody expensive.
You sure? I often see a 2G profit for it and a little more depending on when you buy the mats and when you sell the damask.
Careful with how you calculate costs. A couple of them, damask in particular, provide a profit to the seller. Including this distorts the cost differences between sets.
I know what you mean but it doesnt really matter. I know that you could probably craft a bolt of damask for maybe 10g, if you get all mats on buy order, for example. It doesnt change much, though, does it?
It doesn’t have a major impact to your argument as it’s not focused entirely on the cost and you’re reallocating how many damask each profession needs.
Careful with how you calculate costs. A couple of them, damask in particular, provide a profit to the seller. Including this distorts the cost differences between sets.
i did not mean regular WvW thats my bad for not being more specific i was in Edge of the mists and @Azhure.1857 i do not have a Experience scroll and i only have 7 Tomes
:Edit
What Crafting is it you guys are talking about do you have a Link for a indept explenation of what you have to buy etc?
It’s something like gw2crafts.net I believe. It will cost a lot of gold. Most people did cooking and one or more of the others that cost less than 10G. This was before ascended crafting though but you still get 7 levels.
As part of our ongoing efforts to align the systems of Guild Wars 2 more closely with their connected content, we’re changing the way that world completion works in the next release . Specifically, we’re removing the World vs. World maps from world completion requirements.
World completion is only needed for legendary weapons (and these must now be considered PvE only). So since they’re removing WvW from counting, perhaps they should remove Badges of Honor from being needed for the gift as well. May as well be consistent.
His complaint is likely coming from those who AFK at forts during defend events and also during VW after they’ve tagged enough to get credit. All these players then do is scale up the event making the active players work even more.
Events dynamically scale based on the number of active participants though. If people are not taking any action, the game detects a decrease in participation and scales down.
Except during what timeframe and what criteria is used to determine who is and isn’t active? I’ve seen a tower defense increase to level 84 mobs when only 5 people were actively defending while the rest sat AFK on a ledge. This was for the entire duration of the event.
His complaint is likely coming from those who AFK at forts during defend events and also during VW after they’ve tagged enough to get credit. All these players then do is scale up the event making the active players work even more.
The OP has a point.
I was doing a heart quest at the portal to Rhand at Diessa. The heart was dead most of the time and you need to wait for event to spawn AND get lucky to kill enough mobs fast enough before other players. The quest has no alternative.
This is the one I was thinking of as well. They just need to put in one thing that players can do between Flame Legion appearances and it would be a lot better.
There are flame legion on the lower level that you can still attack.
I last tried to complete this last night and there were no flame legion anywhere within the heart zone.
I’ve completed the heart at least three times without the event active and it took less than 5 minutes. Much less time than it took to do the stealth one in Blazeridge.
Good for you. If you can share how exactly to do it without interacting with a single thing then please do.
I’m not making this up. There was nothing there until events spawned.
The OP has a point.
I was doing a heart quest at the portal to Rhand at Diessa. The heart was dead most of the time and you need to wait for event to spawn AND get lucky to kill enough mobs fast enough before other players. The quest has no alternative.
This is the one I was thinking of as well. They just need to put in one thing that players can do between Flame Legion appearances and it would be a lot better.
There are flame legion on the lower level that you can still attack.
I last tried to complete this last night and there were no flame legion anywhere within the heart zone.
I’ve completed the heart at least three times without the event active and it took less than 5 minutes. Much less time than it took to do the stealth one in Blazeridge.
The time to access a guild’s bank after joining is, indeed, 3 days. It’s not any longer or shorter than 3 days.
I got the item value error when trying to move T6 mats to my bank well after I’ve had the account for 3 days. Being able to access the guild bank and being able to deposit are not the same thing in this case.
EDIT: I bought a new account last Saturday. I just now tried to transfer x2 of 3 different T6 mats. The first two went to my guild bank. I got the error on the third. I’m also unable to transfers items out of the guild bank as I’ve hit my limit for new accounts. When I type /age it shows how long that I have played over 5 days. It’s definitely more than 3 days.
The OP has a point.
I was doing a heart quest at the portal to Rhand at Diessa. The heart was dead most of the time and you need to wait for event to spawn AND get lucky to kill enough mobs fast enough before other players. The quest has no alternative.
This is the one I was thinking of as well. They just need to put in one thing that players can do between Flame Legion appearances and it would be a lot better.
There are flame legion on the lower level that you can still attack.
I necroed this thread to apologize. I should not have started this thread. I was just frustrated about getting the achievements. It’s not like me to whine and cry like a little baby because something is difficult.
Eventually I will get the achievements and the last piece of glowing armor.
Saying there’s a tier above exotics and saying you have to grind for it are completely different things. You don’t know. You’re assuming. You’re using the assumption to malign. It’s obvious to most people what you’re doing.
One could easily counter argument that you’re trying to defend ArenaNet while ignoring the evidence in front of you, and that it’s obvious to most people what you’re doing.
As an example, there is zero assumptions in saying that, by the time of release, ArenaNet knew very well that there was a huge grind in the game in order to get legendaries, at the same time they had at the front of their website the video in which they claimed they don’t want players to grind.
There is no way around it. It’s simply a fact – the Manifesto was something ArenaNet knew wasn’t true at the very same time they were using it as a marketing tool.
- Grind: To us, grind means being required to do the same boring activity over and over again. In particular, the biggest reference we’re talking about here in traditional MMO’s is having to kill the same creatures over and over again to farm for levels or gear. In Gw2, you can gain exp and levels from a massive variety of game play, game modes, and content types. Same goes for the ability to acquire the gear to build up your characters. Similarly, ascended mats can be acquired from a wide variety of content types and game modes to allow you choice and options so you don’t need to grind to complete those goals. Our new mastery system continues to this promise as well, which we’ll go into more detail on soon.
So if you love MMORPGs, you should check out Guild Wars 2. But if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun; and of course, it doesn’t have a monthly fee.
Might I point out that even the most basic of activities, say collections for example, has turned into a grind as well because of the final pieces being locked behind RNG. It’s no different to me than say, open world LS supposedly being said that you don’t need to do what others have to do in other aspects of PVE to enjoy those stories yet over and over again we kept seeing the final stories with the most important lore being locked behind a group content situation yet LS was touted as something that everyone could enjoy, everyone can’t unless you have a team to go into those 5 mans.
So it’s a game of semantics here really, and I for one say that not only did they not deliver on what they said they did on multiple fronts but they have the chance now with the expansion to make up for all of the incessant RNG in this title and the long drawn out time gating that’s been going on.
Take another look at what they were referring to as grind within the blog/video explicitly and then what they stated in the post a month ago. You need to look at the entire context and what they’re saying rather than a single line of them saying “no grind”.
As Phys and Indigo have brought up, this thread would be far more useful if the discussion focused on the grind within the game in general rather than what the manifesto said or didn’t say.
You bought the base game.
You got access to the base game.
Living Story is not part of the base game, thus it is not included.
Wrong. It essentially is part of the base game as there are no specific lines saying it’s not. Also, for most of us, living world was happening the same time the “base game” was and to us, is no different from one another. Also, the “base game” is impacted by the living world- now new players get to see a ruined Lion’s Arch despite having no involvement in the events of the destruction (Season 1) while everyone else did- for free.
That’s not an argument. That’s like me saying that we should be able to fight as Quaggans because they specifically haven’t said that we couldn’t. Or a child going to see a movie but themselves and saying they could because their parents didn’t specifically say that they couldn’t.
Guys does it really matter though? Grind is grind.
Grind isn’t an end, grind is a means to an end. it doesn’t matter what that end is. Whether you try to level up, get new gear or get a new rare skin, if you have to do the same repetitive stuff over and over and over again to get what you want (level-up, gear, skin) it is per definition a grind.
When talking about any form of grind within the game in general, no.
So why then are some people arguing whether the “no-grind philosophy” applies to gear or not? No grind means no grind, that includes no grind for gear, a promise Anet broke.
Then again, Anet broke so many promises. The manifesto video is just too painful too watch. So many promises and statements that Anet pulled a complete 180 on. The most painful part is when Ree Soesbee says: “As a structure, the MMO has lost the ability to make the player feel like a hero. Everybody around you is doing the same thing you’re doing, the boss you just killed just respawns 10 minutes later, it doesn’t care that I’m there. We do not want to build that same MMO everyone else is building. In GW2 it’s your world, it’s your story. You will affect things around you in a very permanent way.”
Ouch, just, ouch…
It’s about what was explicitly stated in their manifesto blog/video leading up to the post a month or so ago. They’re were not talking about gear.
In regards to the second part of your post, do you really want content like the Ancient Karka? They have to allow bosses to respawn and be played again at a frequency so that all players can experience them again or for the first time. Many of the bosses do help evolve a map before the event chain resets which was part of their dynamic world concept.
I’d also venture to say that a lot of what we did in the Living Story has affected Tyria in a permanent way.
I have absolutely no other idea on how to rephrase it so you’ll understand.
Funny, I’m thinking the very same thing with you.
Go back 2 months before his post that updated/clarified what they meant in the manifesto. Where did they mention gear in the blog or or video? That’s what we’re talking about. People have been complaining since launch that Anet lied with the Manifesto in regards to grind when all they did was pull a single phrase out of context. I’m talking about what is explicitly stated within the blog and video. I’m not talking about anything posted in his post 2.5 years later.
Guys does it really matter though? Grind is grind.
Grind isn’t an end, grind is a means to an end. it doesn’t matter what that end is. Whether you try to level up, get new gear or get a new rare skin, if you have to do the same repetitive stuff over and over and over again to get what you want (level-up, gear, skin) it is per definition a grind.
You’re not understanding what it is that’s being said even when bolded. I’ll say it again: we’re talking about what is specifically stated in the manifesto (blog/video).
And I’ll caps lock for you since you don’t seem to be able to read, SO IS COLIN.
“When our company president said we have an anti-grind philosophy way back before Gw2 shipped, and when it has been repeatedly reinforced since then”
Key words: ANTI-GRIND PHILOSPHY, BACK BEFORE GW2 SHIPPED and WHEN IT HAS BEEN REPEATEDLY REINFORCED SINCE THEN
In other words: EVERY TIME THEY TALKED ABOUT AN ANTI-GRIND PHILOSPHY, IT WAS IN REGARDS TO GEAR.
So if you have a kittening problem with that interpretation, take it up with Colin BECAUSE IT’S HIS kittenING QUOTE.
How about you read the manifesto blog and watch the video. Where do they talk about grind in regards to gear? That’s what we’re talking about. Is it that difficult to understand? I have absolutely no other idea on how to rephrase it so you’ll understand.
Again. Read the manifesto blog and listen to what he says in the video.
So Colin is lying in his quote. Okay.
I’m sure you and Vayne know better than Colin what they meant.
I’m sure Colin didn’t write the manifesto. He performed it. What he said was very likely what someone wrote. It’s clear from the words at least what isn’t being talked about.
More to the point, I’m sure Colin after five years of not thinking about it knows exactly what he meant five years ago. Hell most people don’t know what they meant a year later never mind five.
Imagine that someone asked you what you meant when you said something five years ago. Like you’d even remember. To a fan who listened to the manifesto this was a major thing and it’s ingrained in their psyche. To Colin it was one day out of many days making a game. What makes you think this is something so important to him he even remembers it.
Translation: I’m Vayne and I know better than Colin what Colin is talking about, despite Colin coming into this thread and clearing up what everyone was talking about.
Do they talk about gear? No. It is not mentioned. That is what we are talking about. You’re doing the exact same thing that many people have been doing. You’re not understanding what it is that’s being said even when bolded. I’ll say it again: we’re talking about what is specifically stated in the manifesto (blog/video).
We’re talking about what is specifically stated in the manifesto (blog/video).
We’re talking about what is specifically stated in the manifesto (blog/video).
We’re talking about what is specifically stated in the manifesto (blog/video).
We’re talking about what is specifically stated in the manifesto (blog/video).
We’re talking about what is specifically stated in the manifesto (blog/video).
We’re talking about what is specifically stated in the manifesto (blog/video).
We’re talking about what is specifically stated in the manifesto (blog/video).
We’re talking about what is specifically stated in the manifesto (blog/video).
We’re talking about what is specifically stated in the manifesto (blog/video).
We’re talking about what is specifically stated in the manifesto (blog/video).
We’re talking about what is specifically stated in the manifesto (blog/video).
We’re talking about what is specifically stated in the manifesto (blog/video).
We’re talking about what is specifically stated in the manifesto (blog/video).
That quote that you bolded now becomes the issue of contention. Anet said back in the day, that in most games you have to level up before you get to the good part of doing end game content, ie raids.
When our company president said we have an anti-grind philosophy way back before Gw2 shipped, and when it has been repeatedly reinforced since then, our statement is simply: “We don’t think you should need to grind to get the best gear and stats in Guild Wars 2”.
Again. Read the manifesto blog and listen to what he says in the video.
Exactly. People didn’t read/comprehend what was stated in the manifesto blog nor did they do the same for what was said in the video. They were talking about combat.
Saying there’s a tier above exotics and saying you have to grind for it are completely different things. You don’t know. You’re assuming. You’re using the assumption to malign. It’s obvious to most people what you’re doing.
One could easily counter argument that you’re trying to defend ArenaNet while ignoring the evidence in front of you, and that it’s obvious to most people what you’re doing.
As an example, there is zero assumptions in saying that, by the time of release, ArenaNet knew very well that there was a huge grind in the game in order to get legendaries, at the same time they had at the front of their website the video in which they claimed they don’t want players to grind.
There is no way around it. It’s simply a fact – the Manifesto was something ArenaNet knew wasn’t true at the very same time they were using it as a marketing tool.
- Grind: To us, grind means being required to do the same boring activity over and over again. In particular, the biggest reference we’re talking about here in traditional MMO’s is having to kill the same creatures over and over again to farm for levels or gear. In Gw2, you can gain exp and levels from a massive variety of game play, game modes, and content types. Same goes for the ability to acquire the gear to build up your characters. Similarly, ascended mats can be acquired from a wide variety of content types and game modes to allow you choice and options so you don’t need to grind to complete those goals. Our new mastery system continues to this promise as well, which we’ll go into more detail on soon.
So if you love MMORPGs, you should check out Guild Wars 2. But if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun; and of course, it doesn’t have a monthly fee.
You don’t micromanage markets to maintain equilibrium. Not only is it an incredible amount of work you can never be wrong in, it’s not physically possible inside a live game environment.
You assume that absolute parity is required inside of tiers, I don’t necessarily agree.
Everyone is throwing around accusation about micro managing the TP and market. I brought up the term earlier in THIS thread in reference to the t6>t5>t4>t3>t2>t1 price lock subject. Not everything suggested would be micro managing. the Silk change was a well thought out, intentional market shift by the devs to bring value to a core material in the game. Now that the material has value they can do adjustments to the market without destroying it through rewards. Also the “use elonian leather/deld steel for insignias/inscriptions” suggestion wouldn’t be micromanaging.
It started with Ohoni’s post where they want materials in there to behave specific ways and for changes to continually occur to have them remain that way despite how complex the game is now.
It’s because the same people that have argued against grind are the same ones that don’t want challenging and hard content.
Who?
If it’s as common as you say, and considering this is a topic complaining about grind, there should be examples easily available. I’m curious as to who has claimed that grind and hard content should go.
It’s more difficult to find them now that they’ve hidden the old BLTC archive forum so I don’t think it’s worth it. I could probably search through the post history of the more vocal people in this thread but would it really achieve anything? i will take a look in this thread though to see if someone did make that statement.
Actually, I just remembered. I believe this was brought up briefly in one if the threads about SW. Someone was complaining about how grindy getting the parts was but also complaining about how difficult some of the story achievements were and that they should just be able to buy them (the episode achievement rewards) from the vendor
The only problem is that the NPC’s can one-shot them too so you’re stuck running around trying to beat them to it. Still, it’s a nice alternative if you don’t have access to the Vigil mission.
This was pretty much why I gave up on caring about ascended drops from Teq and Triple Wurm. None of the stat options work for anything that I’m running or would ever run in the future.
No. Certain players misinterpreted and assumed it meant zero grind. This was then clarified on the first page of this thread.
First page of this thread? By whom? By certain players who misinterpreted the Manifesto?
As stated, some people dislike the grind in the game and then refer back to the manifesto assuming that Anet meant zero grind when they in fact didn’t. Those familiar with grind in others games would understand what it was that they were referring to. This was further clarified in a post they made on the first page. The grind they were referring to is very different than what others are referring to.
Sure they clarified that in this thread (2,5 years after release). But that does not mean people already got to the game because they did read about the no grind philosophy. And even in the interview with Angry Joe, Colin seem to try and dismiss the grind and that was not about levels or BiS, no it was about LS episodes. So when people see that it also seems like Anet is having a general anti-grind philosophy. (Not everybody sees this thread, in fact probably more people did see that interview)
Still coming from other games where there is some farming but no never ending currency grind for cosmetics, going to a game all about cosmetics that talks about a no-grind-phylosophy, is it really strange people expect no or not a lot of grind?.. Including for that important part (for this game) cosmetics?
I don’t think you can blame those people for interpreting it that way.
But still in the end it’s not relevant how they interpreted that, it’s relevant how they feel about the game and how they feel about grind in the game and how that effects their joy in the game.
Some people might not even know what it is what they dislike but find the game ‘boring’ and leave. While in fact for (some or many) of them the reason is that if they want to go for many of the cosmetics it’s not that they get specific challenges (like in many other games) but it’s grinding gold. That gets boring. (another thing this game was promoted with.. it’s all about fun)
I really think this is a bigger issue as Anet thinks and I said it before but will repeat it again. HoT will get back many players who did leave the game. But if they leave again after HoT many of them will not return for the next expansion. So they better get it right this time.
We can talk about the manifesto and what somebody meant all day long, but in the end this is what is important. And should be important for all the people that care about GW2. No matter if we agree on what somebody did say or didn’t say.
Let’s say that they reduce the grind so that there’s little to none of it. Players now have quick and easy access to all of the rewards and items in the game. How long do you think they would continue playing?
I am not talking about quick and easy. Why is it always that if you say ‘ingame’ or ‘no grind’ it means ‘quick and easy’. How about hard and challenging content?
I don’t want a vendor that gives all rewards away for free. I want to play (play, not work / grind) for them. I guess Liadri would be the perfect example of a ‘hard’ one. Some might be easy, other might have a (doable) rng, some will be hard. spread it out a little. I think they will keep playing until they have what they want but hopefully by that time a new expansion is released with new content and new rewards.
It’s because the same people that have argued against grind are the same ones that don’t want challenging and hard content.
I have seen the Liadri example being used many times on this forum(not only by me) so I think thats an incorrect assessment you made there.
The statement wasn’t all inclusive. This topic has gone on since the game was released and there’s always a number of people that are against making hard content as well as grindy content. I vaguely remember someone comparing the need to gain the skill to overcome difficult content as a grind as ridiculous as that sounds.
No. Certain players misinterpreted and assumed it meant zero grind. This was then clarified on the first page of this thread.
First page of this thread? By whom? By certain players who misinterpreted the Manifesto?
As stated, some people dislike the grind in the game and then refer back to the manifesto assuming that Anet meant zero grind when they in fact didn’t. Those familiar with grind in others games would understand what it was that they were referring to. This was further clarified in a post they made on the first page. The grind they were referring to is very different than what others are referring to.
Sure they clarified that in this thread (2,5 years after release). But that does not mean people already got to the game because they did read about the no grind philosophy. And even in the interview with Angry Joe, Colin seem to try and dismiss the grind and that was not about levels or BiS, no it was about LS episodes. So when people see that it also seems like Anet is having a general anti-grind philosophy. (Not everybody sees this thread, in fact probably more people did see that interview)
Still coming from other games where there is some farming but no never ending currency grind for cosmetics, going to a game all about cosmetics that talks about a no-grind-phylosophy, is it really strange people expect no or not a lot of grind?.. Including for that important part (for this game) cosmetics?
I don’t think you can blame those people for interpreting it that way.
But still in the end it’s not relevant how they interpreted that, it’s relevant how they feel about the game and how they feel about grind in the game and how that effects their joy in the game.
Some people might not even know what it is what they dislike but find the game ‘boring’ and leave. While in fact for (some or many) of them the reason is that if they want to go for many of the cosmetics it’s not that they get specific challenges (like in many other games) but it’s grinding gold. That gets boring. (another thing this game was promoted with.. it’s all about fun)
I really think this is a bigger issue as Anet thinks and I said it before but will repeat it again. HoT will get back many players who did leave the game. But if they leave again after HoT many of them will not return for the next expansion. So they better get it right this time.
We can talk about the manifesto and what somebody meant all day long, but in the end this is what is important. And should be important for all the people that care about GW2. No matter if we agree on what somebody did say or didn’t say.
Let’s say that they reduce the grind so that there’s little to none of it. Players now have quick and easy access to all of the rewards and items in the game. How long do you think they would continue playing?
I am not talking about quick and easy. Why is it always that if you say ‘ingame’ or ‘no grind’ it means ‘quick and easy’. How about hard and challenging content?
I don’t want a vendor that gives all rewards away for free. I want to play (play, not work / grind) for them. I guess Liadri would be the perfect example of a ‘hard’ one. Some might be easy, other might have a (doable) rng, some will be hard. spread it out a little. I think they will keep playing until they have what they want but hopefully by that time a new expansion is released with new content and new rewards.
It’s because the same people that have argued against grind are the same ones that don’t want challenging and hard content.
How is increasing the number of scraps needed for a bolt one time over the 2.5 year span of the game micro-managing? How is creating a new recipe which requires 100 bolts micro-managing? I seriously suggest looking up exactly what it means because it did not happen in regards to silk.
The same way that decreasing the number of scraps needed for a bolt would be micro-managing. That is effectively what he was referring to when he said “micro-managing.” Now that the silk surplus seems to have resolved itself it might be time to revert the earlier change. If it wasn’t micro-managing then it wouldn’t be micro-managing now. You can’t have it both ways.
No. One off changes are not micro-managing. Check out the post that he was referring to.
No. Certain players misinterpreted and assumed it meant zero grind. This was then clarified on the first page of this thread.
First page of this thread? By whom? By certain players who misinterpreted the Manifesto?
As stated, some people dislike the grind in the game and then refer back to the manifesto assuming that Anet meant zero grind when they in fact didn’t. Those familiar with grind in others games would understand what it was that they were referring to. This was further clarified in a post they made on the first page. The grind they were referring to is very different than what others are referring to.
Sure they clarified that in this thread (2,5 years after release). But that does not mean people already got to the game because they did read about the no grind philosophy. And even in the interview with Angry Joe, Colin seem to try and dismiss the grind and that was not about levels or BiS, no it was about LS episodes. So when people see that it also seems like Anet is having a general anti-grind philosophy. (Not everybody sees this thread, in fact probably more people did see that interview)
Still coming from other games where there is some farming but no never ending currency grind for cosmetics, going to a game all about cosmetics that talks about a no-grind-phylosophy, is it really strange people expect no or not a lot of grind?.. Including for that important part (for this game) cosmetics?
I don’t think you can blame those people for interpreting it that way.
But still in the end it’s not relevant how they interpreted that, it’s relevant how they feel about the game and how they feel about grind in the game and how that effects their joy in the game.
Some people might not even know what it is what they dislike but find the game ‘boring’ and leave. While in fact for (some or many) of them the reason is that if they want to go for many of the cosmetics it’s not that they get specific challenges (like in many other games) but it’s grinding gold. That gets boring. (another thing this game was promoted with.. it’s all about fun)
I really think this is a bigger issue as Anet thinks and I said it before but will repeat it again. HoT will get back many players who did leave the game. But if they leave again after HoT many of them will not return for the next expansion. So they better get it right this time.
We can talk about the manifesto and what somebody meant all day long, but in the end this is what is important. And should be important for all the people that care about GW2. No matter if we agree on what somebody did say or didn’t say.
Let’s say that they reduce the grind so that there’s little to none of it. Players now have quick and easy access to all of the rewards and items in the game. How long do you think they would continue playing?
You cannot have zero grind in an RPG and especially MMO’s.
Not while players think like that. I’m amazed at how many players have eaten the lie that all MMORPGs need grind, instead of relying on fun and polished content.
Care to elaborate on your genius plan to revolutionize the industry? Because last I checked, no MMO will survive without repetitive activity that people will inevitably label a grind.
Ah, you mean very successful MMORPGs like Fury? The Chronicles of Spellborn? The original release of Final Fantasy XIV? The Old Republic? Warhammer Online?
If you haven’t realized, the MMORPG genre is filled with failures. It has, in fact, had far more failures in the recent years than successes – other than the second release of Final Fantasy XIV and maybe Rift, there has been no big success.
One of the reasons for that is because they are all cattering to the same kind of players – grinders. Players who are willing to do content even they feel is not fun and not interesting, just in order to get a reward. This kind of person who is willing to endure a game instead of play a game is (fortunately!) not common enough to make multiple MMORPGs successful.
So, why the heck do double fractal dailies exist??
Today is double fractal, and there are queues for every single borderlands, plus eb… so I just logged off, and will go play another game. Good job, anet -_-
I do agree that double fractal dailies are a bit redundant.
This was further clarified in a post they made on the first page. The grind they were referring to is very different than what others are referring to.
You cannot have zero grind in an RPG and especially MMO’s.
Not while players think like that. I’m amazed at how many players have eaten the lie that all MMORPGs need grind, instead of relying on fun and polished content.
Oops. My mistake. It was actually made on page four.
Do you really think people would still be doing SW if all of the rewards did not require grind or had an RNG factor? How about the rest of the game?
The only way to have a no-grind MMO is to have a fully dynamic world
The only way to have a no-grind MMO is for MMORPG players to stop accepting poorly-made content and demand quality from MMORPG developers. Until that happens, grind is all we’re going to have, because people are willing to accept it.
You cannot have zero grind in an RPG and especially MMO’s. There is absolutely zero probability that developers can create enough content to keep those that dedicate all of their free time to this game. Grind, as well as RNG, is there to prolong the life of the content.
No. Certain players misinterpreted and assumed it meant zero grind. This was then clarified on the first page of this thread.
First page of this thread? By whom? By certain players who misinterpreted the Manifesto?
As stated, some people dislike the grind in the game and then refer back to the manifesto assuming that Anet meant zero grind when they in fact didn’t. Those familiar with grind in others games would understand what it was that they were referring to. This was further clarified in a post they made on the first page. The grind they were referring to is very different than what others are referring to.
98% of those complaining about “grind” in GW2 appear to have NEVER played a game that actually REQUIRES grind to progress in the game. THAT type of activity is what the GW2 manifesto is stating will not be present in GW2. It’s quite easy to twist any comment into the perception of a lie if your desire is to make someone out to be a liar.
Yeah, before accusing people, I would suggest reading the topic you are replying to.
Then people need to quit referencing the manifesto when complaining about grind. It’s one thing to complain about grind in general but it’s totally different when you reference the manifesto and how Anet lied to players.
ArenaNet lied to players in the Manifesto.
No. Certain players misinterpreted and assumed it meant zero grind. This was then clarified on the first page of this thread.
