Guild Wars 2

Devata.6589:

Ayrilana.1396:

Devata.6589:

Ayrilana.1396:

Devata.6589:

I did just see the interview of Angry Joe with Colin Johanson and it reminded me of this thread.

Now remember, Angry Joe was one of those persons who loved the game at launch but then got bored with it and left. So it’s very interesting to see it from his perspective.

At 12:50 he refers to grind (to unlock season 2) on what Colin says “nah you can just play”. Basically the excuse most people here use as well. (other then the ‘you do not need it’).

More in the beginning he also talks about ‘zergy’ what is probably partly also the grind as much of the grinding is done in zergs.

Later (around 15:00) Colin says there is a lot of new stuff for returning players because of all the patches we have. On what Joe says “so we talking (about) new skins, new armor, new everything”. So there is more of your ‘you do not need it’ stuff. It’s the first stuff he talks about and yes thats all there…. but most of it behind a (gold) grind.

If returning players see all that stuff behind a wall of grind they get bored with the game very fast. That’s just the reality.

Maybe people who try to defend the grind or act as if it’s not there should try to understand this is how people (including many of those who left) do experience the game. That you do not ‘need’ a skin is irrelevant.

Anyway, it perfectly shows how you should see it from the perspective of players who did love the game and left.

Here is the interview:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sG5oUKqbIVM

It’s these types of players who will be coming back and you want to hold this time.

Then the ‘you do not need it’ and ‘you can just play’ excuse is all nice and well in a discussion but it does not help the reality of how people experience the game.

You should check out what Anet’s stance really is about in regards to grind and what they were actually referring to in the manifesto which people have widely misinterpreted.

Optional or “you can just play” are valid statements/arguments. You can experience just about all of the content in this game in greens with the exception of high level fractals. Even then, the content of a level 10 fractal is not significantly different than a level 50. I don’t consider inflated HP/damage by mobs and instabilities as content. Everyone has a choice when they decide to grind.

The only problem is that that is irrelevant. It’s how people experience what is relevant. And many people experience grind. What was also something that was so clear from the way Angry Joe talked about it. Sure Colin can say “you can play for it” but as soon as Joe would have to earn gold with as target, unlocking the episodes it becomes grinding. Thats how people feel it.

So it’s irrelevant because you disagree with it? K.

No, it’s a forum where people talk about what they dislike. Then it’s irrelevant what Anet ever meant with there no grind philosophy if people dislike the grind. Because the problem is people disliking the grind. The question is not if that grind finds into the no grind philosophy.

Are you going into any forum thread where people complain or ask for something telling them it’s irrelevant what they like or dislike because Anet never promised that?

Then people need to quit referencing the manifesto when complaining about grind. It’s one thing to complain about grind in general but it’s totally different when you reference the manifesto and how Anet lied to players.

phys.7689:

Ayrilana.1396:

phys.7689:

Ayrilana.1396:

Shiyo.3578:

Page 15, and a reminder that damask is 100 bolts of silk instead of 50 like every other ascended mat, and also over 4x the price of every other ascended mat. Anet designed this item to be more expensive so that silk would be useful, and forgot to revert it back to 50 bolts of silk per damask after silk became insanely expensive.

So anet, why won’t you revert this change, or change some of the ascended backpiece recipes from >>15<< damask to 15 elonian leather?

John is probably never going to even acknowledge this fact because he knows he’s wrong and he straight up refuses to admit to his mistakes or fix them. Sucks for us players, I guess.

John Smith.4610:

You don’t micromanage markets to maintain equilibrium. Not only is it an incredible amount of work you can never be wrong in, it’s not physically possible inside a live game environment.

You assume that absolute parity is required inside of tiers, I don’t necessarily agree.

Except this is LITERALLY what you did, you changed silk bolts from 2 scraps to 3, then made it take 100 bolts of silk per damask instead of 50 like every other ascended material. Which actually made sense at the time, except that leather was equally as worthless and you didn’t do the same thing to leather.

It isn’t what they literally did. I’d look into what micro-manage is and what he was referring to.

he did micro manage, but i think the point he was making is he doesnt want to micro manage everything.

Micro managing is actually supposed to happen, its just not feasible for one guy or force to do it. Unfortunately we do not have a real economy or business structure, we cant do things like innovate, or replace goods, we cant alter amounts, and we dont have much direct control on many things. Therefore, at times, it will fall to Anet to micro manage, i dont really think its avoidable.

How is increasing the number of scraps needed for a bolt one time over the 2.5 year span of the game micro-managing? How is creating a new recipe which requires 100 bolts micro-managing? I seriously suggest looking up exactly what it means because it did not happen in regards to silk.

whatever definition you want to use is fine, Ill go with what you say. But this means that people want the type of changes he has made in the past, not what you would define as micromanaging.

Basically they want the overall system fixed so that the demand/supply relationship for silk in ascended isnt one that creates an unbalanced value for different armor types by its very design.

Refer back to John’s post and who he was responding to including their post. I believe you missed that which is what’s causing the confusion.

EDIT: This is the post that John was likely responding to.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Why-is-silk-going-up-in-price/page/10#post4848745

phys.7689:

Astraea.6075:

one-off corrections =/= micro-management

well if thats how you define your terms, thats fine.

But then i think most people are asking him to make one off corrections, not micro managing as you define it

Asking him to make constant corrections over time is micro managing.

Devata.6589:

Ayrilana.1396:

Devata.6589:

I did just see the interview of Angry Joe with Colin Johanson and it reminded me of this thread.

Now remember, Angry Joe was one of those persons who loved the game at launch but then got bored with it and left. So it’s very interesting to see it from his perspective.

At 12:50 he refers to grind (to unlock season 2) on what Colin says “nah you can just play”. Basically the excuse most people here use as well. (other then the ‘you do not need it’).

More in the beginning he also talks about ‘zergy’ what is probably partly also the grind as much of the grinding is done in zergs.

Later (around 15:00) Colin says there is a lot of new stuff for returning players because of all the patches we have. On what Joe says “so we talking (about) new skins, new armor, new everything”. So there is more of your ‘you do not need it’ stuff. It’s the first stuff he talks about and yes thats all there…. but most of it behind a (gold) grind.

If returning players see all that stuff behind a wall of grind they get bored with the game very fast. That’s just the reality.

Maybe people who try to defend the grind or act as if it’s not there should try to understand this is how people (including many of those who left) do experience the game. That you do not ‘need’ a skin is irrelevant.

Anyway, it perfectly shows how you should see it from the perspective of players who did love the game and left.

Here is the interview:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sG5oUKqbIVM

It’s these types of players who will be coming back and you want to hold this time.

Then the ‘you do not need it’ and ‘you can just play’ excuse is all nice and well in a discussion but it does not help the reality of how people experience the game.

You should check out what Anet’s stance really is about in regards to grind and what they were actually referring to in the manifesto which people have widely misinterpreted.

Optional or “you can just play” are valid statements/arguments. You can experience just about all of the content in this game in greens with the exception of high level fractals. Even then, the content of a level 10 fractal is not significantly different than a level 50. I don’t consider inflated HP/damage by mobs and instabilities as content. Everyone has a choice when they decide to grind.

The only problem is that that is irrelevant. It’s how people experience what is relevant. And many people experience grind. What was also something that was so clear from the way Angry Joe talked about it. Sure Colin can say “you can play for it” but as soon as Joe would have to earn gold with as target, unlocking the episodes it becomes grinding. Thats how people feel it.

So it’s irrelevant because you disagree with it? K.

phys.7689:

Ayrilana.1396:

Shiyo.3578:

Page 15, and a reminder that damask is 100 bolts of silk instead of 50 like every other ascended mat, and also over 4x the price of every other ascended mat. Anet designed this item to be more expensive so that silk would be useful, and forgot to revert it back to 50 bolts of silk per damask after silk became insanely expensive.

So anet, why won’t you revert this change, or change some of the ascended backpiece recipes from >>15<< damask to 15 elonian leather?

John is probably never going to even acknowledge this fact because he knows he’s wrong and he straight up refuses to admit to his mistakes or fix them. Sucks for us players, I guess.

John Smith.4610:

You don’t micromanage markets to maintain equilibrium. Not only is it an incredible amount of work you can never be wrong in, it’s not physically possible inside a live game environment.

You assume that absolute parity is required inside of tiers, I don’t necessarily agree.

Except this is LITERALLY what you did, you changed silk bolts from 2 scraps to 3, then made it take 100 bolts of silk per damask instead of 50 like every other ascended material. Which actually made sense at the time, except that leather was equally as worthless and you didn’t do the same thing to leather.

It isn’t what they literally did. I’d look into what micro-manage is and what he was referring to.

he did micro manage, but i think the point he was making is he doesnt want to micro manage everything.

Micro managing is actually supposed to happen, its just not feasible for one guy or force to do it. Unfortunately we do not have a real economy or business structure, we cant do things like innovate, or replace goods, we cant alter amounts, and we dont have much direct control on many things. Therefore, at times, it will fall to Anet to micro manage, i dont really think its avoidable.

How is increasing the number of scraps needed for a bolt one time over the 2.5 year span of the game micro-managing? How is creating a new recipe which requires 100 bolts micro-managing? I seriously suggest looking up exactly what it means because it did not happen in regards to silk.

Shiyo.3578:

Page 15, and a reminder that damask is 100 bolts of silk instead of 50 like every other ascended mat, and also over 4x the price of every other ascended mat. Anet designed this item to be more expensive so that silk would be useful, and forgot to revert it back to 50 bolts of silk per damask after silk became insanely expensive.

So anet, why won’t you revert this change, or change some of the ascended backpiece recipes from >>15<< damask to 15 elonian leather?

John is probably never going to even acknowledge this fact because he knows he’s wrong and he straight up refuses to admit to his mistakes or fix them. Sucks for us players, I guess.

John Smith.4610:

You don’t micromanage markets to maintain equilibrium. Not only is it an incredible amount of work you can never be wrong in, it’s not physically possible inside a live game environment.

You assume that absolute parity is required inside of tiers, I don’t necessarily agree.

Except this is LITERALLY what you did, you changed silk bolts from 2 scraps to 3, then made it take 100 bolts of silk per damask instead of 50 like every other ascended material. Which actually made sense at the time, except that leather was equally as worthless and you didn’t do the same thing to leather.

It isn’t what they literally did. I’d look into what micro-manage is and what he was referring to.

Devata.6589:

I did just see the interview of Angry Joe with Colin Johanson and it reminded me of this thread.

Now remember, Angry Joe was one of those persons who loved the game at launch but then got bored with it and left. So it’s very interesting to see it from his perspective.

At 12:50 he refers to grind (to unlock season 2) on what Colin says “nah you can just play”. Basically the excuse most people here use as well. (other then the ‘you do not need it’).

More in the beginning he also talks about ‘zergy’ what is probably partly also the grind as much of the grinding is done in zergs.

Later (around 15:00) Colin says there is a lot of new stuff for returning players because of all the patches we have. On what Joe says “so we talking (about) new skins, new armor, new everything”. So there is more of your ‘you do not need it’ stuff. It’s the first stuff he talks about and yes thats all there…. but most of it behind a (gold) grind.

If returning players see all that stuff behind a wall of grind they get bored with the game very fast. That’s just the reality.

Maybe people who try to defend the grind or act as if it’s not there should try to understand this is how people (including many of those who left) do experience the game. That you do not ‘need’ a skin is irrelevant.

Anyway, it perfectly shows how you should see it from the perspective of players who did love the game and left.

Here is the interview:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sG5oUKqbIVM

It’s these types of players who will be coming back and you want to hold this time.

Then the ‘you do not need it’ and ‘you can just play’ excuse is all nice and well in a discussion but it does not help the reality of how people experience the game.

You should check out what Anet’s stance really is about in regards to grind and what they were actually referring to in the manifesto which people have widely misinterpreted.

Optional or “you can just play” are valid statements/arguments. You can experience just about all of the content in this game in greens with the exception of high level fractals. Even then, the content of a level 10 fractal is not significantly different than a level 50. I don’t consider inflated HP/damage by mobs and instabilities as content. Everyone has a choice when they decide to grind.

Achrisos.1360:

So I returned to the game when HoT was announced. I had left before the new daily system came in. There are definitely some cool pros to the new system however I find that once 3 dailies are complete and you get the 10 ap completion bonus I am left with little motivation to complete the rest. This was something I really liked doing before as the extra ap was worth it and it gave me something to do.

My suggestion is add an additional 5-10ap bonus for completing everything on the daily list. This would keep the motivation going for longer than the 5m it takes to do 1 pvp game to finish 3 daily categories….

They won’t add the additional AP as that defeats one of the purposes for the new system.

Archduke.3817:

I agree with the OP and many others on here. It is ridiculous that people who were promised a “pay once for game content” must pay more because they had lives or something happened that disabled them from logging in longer than they expected. All of you and your “Well, you should’ve done this or that” have no idea what our lives are like and the reason behind why we couldn’t log on. Some of us are newcomers to the game and missed Season 1 and most of Season 2 and are being penalized for that as now he have to pay for it. It immediately puts us in a inferior place that makes us feel like we can’t trust ArenaNet or this community for honestly not being understanding about the issue.

No one was told from the beginning that once you buy the game, you must log on every week or be forced to pay up the $$.

I missed Season 1 because it was happening far too fast and I could only log on a few times a week, and I spent that time on my original personal story and fighting Zhaitan. Season 2 happened when I started my first year of grad school and no way did I have time for any games let alone find out that it was REQUIRED to log on in order to still have access to something I already paid for (unlike what ArenaNet promised from day one).

I rarely rant, but this hiccup and the snarky comments from those belittling our experiences has hit a nerve.

Sorry if this is harsh, but there is much frustration on our end.

Where was it stated that all additional content would be free?

The only thing locked behind payment are the story instances and the associated achievements with their rewards. The story you can experience for free if you do it with someone that has access.

When calculating profit from promoting using skill points, make sure to include economic costs. For example, profit made for refining from ore to ingot should not be included as this was not directly impacted by using skill points.

Breach fails often because people do not understand the mechanics, do not WP when dead, and do mediocre damage.

VW fails because people do not understand the mechanics, do not WP when dead, AFK on the sidelines, and do mediocre damage

Karma is buying light armor from vendor in Bloodtide then throwing them into Forge so they can be salvaged for scraps. Skill points is by promoting materials to another tier.

Making legendary weapons used to be the best way but so many people are crafting them and then dumping them into the TP at low prices that it’s no longer worth it.

I don’t get this. If people don’t like stacking then create your own LFG stating that you don’t want stacking. Don’t force everyone else to play how you think that they should.

I bought gems with a prepaid an hour or so ago. No issues.

I have the GS and LB and haven’t done fractals since they updated it over a year ago.

All AP does is give you a good indication regarding the likelihood of the player knowing the core mechanics of the game. It does not indicate whether someone knows the specifics for a given dungeon path or fractal.

How can you fix something that isn’t broken?

Rangers use weapons other than bows.

Miniatures come from the gem store or black lion chests. Some are from drops such as Teq and Silverwastes chests.

phys.7689:

Ayrilana.1396:

phys.7689:

Ayrilana.1396:

phys.7689:

RollingBob.8502:

Ayrilana.1396:

I think silk is just fine. What we need to do is fix the others so they’re the same as silk.

+1

for this plan to work you would need to a lot of other materials

thick leather needs to come up, hardened leather needs to come up, mithril needs to come up, oricalcum would then need to rise gossamer needs to rise, all fine mats should be more expensive than basic mats in that teir, so they need to rise.

And would this really be better for the economy?

everything would cost more gold, so it would not be as if you would actually be getting much value out of the increase.

And going by the way it was done in the past, not only would everything be more expensive, but it would require increasing your personal consumption to get satisfaction, by factors of like 4. (not only would everything cost more, but you would need a lot more of it to reach desirable outcomes)

you are not really gaining with changes like silk, you are just increasing the amount you have to grind.

short version, silk needs to come down, some other things need to go up, but its worthless, if making them go up, requires everyone to need more of them to achieve the same state they used to be at.

I was referring to the ascended only recipes for metal and leather T7 refinement to require 300 materials. This will negate the argument that it’s unfair that non-light armor players need less materials. The only argument that would remain is the differences in acquisition which would mainly be the differences in obtaining cloth/leather vs ore.

this would balance it, but i dont think the 300 material thing is actually a good daily requirement. requires about 2-3 hours of effort just for that 1 material, keep in mind these all require more materials/resources elsewhere, putting your total time investment in ascended armor per day, at like 4 hours or more. over 36 days. thats 144 hours
assuming the average player gets in 12 hours a week, thats 12 weeks. 2-3 months for a modest increase is discouraging for players.

Why does it have to be daily though? It can easily be made a long term goal which you can do over the course of several months. If all else fails, you can buy them off the TP. Even then, getting 300 mithril ore is not difficult and in no way requires more than an hour.

even if people dont do it daily, the time requirement is still there, you can decide to only put in 2 hours of work a day, but your still going to need to spend 144 hours actively pursuing it.
Which i think is too much for a lot of players. It would be ok for balance, but i dont think its the right number in terms of player investment.

It’s currently a BiS item for something that doesn’t substantially help you unless you do fractals and this is including the stats from infusions. The only reason that I got them was to free up bank space. I’m sitting in around 50 bolts of damask right now contemplating whether it would be worth it to craft a PVT set my light armor for if I were to take them into WvW.

I don’t think there is any really good solution to resolve this. Changing out what materials are used for insignias could have its merits but then there would be the need to rebalance this across all recipes and then the after effects this would have on the materials and recipes involved.

Kris P Baykon.8496:

Aidan Savage.2078:

*Your post is fairly offtopic so…. probably does break the rules. And since your post is pretty much off topic, I dont have much to reply to you with.

Yet, here you are typing a paragraph that is simply diminishing my feedback and is definitely not adding anything constructive to the conversation.

As long as you sandwich/include something constructive to the discussion then you’re good. I could necro an old thread from years ago about how silk scraps were always tossed or vendored and then laugh about how things are so different now. So long as I posted constructively somewhere in that post which added to the old discussion, I’d be good. That’s what I have recently learned.

phys.7689:

Ayrilana.1396:

phys.7689:

RollingBob.8502:

Ayrilana.1396:

I think silk is just fine. What we need to do is fix the others so they’re the same as silk.

+1

for this plan to work you would need to a lot of other materials

thick leather needs to come up, hardened leather needs to come up, mithril needs to come up, oricalcum would then need to rise gossamer needs to rise, all fine mats should be more expensive than basic mats in that teir, so they need to rise.

And would this really be better for the economy?

everything would cost more gold, so it would not be as if you would actually be getting much value out of the increase.

And going by the way it was done in the past, not only would everything be more expensive, but it would require increasing your personal consumption to get satisfaction, by factors of like 4. (not only would everything cost more, but you would need a lot more of it to reach desirable outcomes)

you are not really gaining with changes like silk, you are just increasing the amount you have to grind.

short version, silk needs to come down, some other things need to go up, but its worthless, if making them go up, requires everyone to need more of them to achieve the same state they used to be at.

I was referring to the ascended only recipes for metal and leather T7 refinement to require 300 materials. This will negate the argument that it’s unfair that non-light armor players need less materials. The only argument that would remain is the differences in acquisition which would mainly be the differences in obtaining cloth/leather vs ore.

this would balance it, but i dont think the 300 material thing is actually a good daily requirement. requires about 2-3 hours of effort just for that 1 material, keep in mind these all require more materials/resources elsewhere, putting your total time investment in ascended armor per day, at like 4 hours or more. over 36 days. thats 144 hours
assuming the average player gets in 12 hours a week, thats 12 weeks. 2-3 months for a modest increase is discouraging for players.

Why does it have to be daily though? It can easily be made a long term goal which you can do over the course of several months. If all else fails, you can buy them off the TP. Even then, getting 300 mithril ore is not difficult and in no way requires more than an hour.

phys.7689:

RollingBob.8502:

Ayrilana.1396:

I think silk is just fine. What we need to do is fix the others so they’re the same as silk.

+1

for this plan to work you would need to a lot of other materials

thick leather needs to come up, hardened leather needs to come up, mithril needs to come up, oricalcum would then need to rise gossamer needs to rise, all fine mats should be more expensive than basic mats in that teir, so they need to rise.

And would this really be better for the economy?

everything would cost more gold, so it would not be as if you would actually be getting much value out of the increase.

And going by the way it was done in the past, not only would everything be more expensive, but it would require increasing your personal consumption to get satisfaction, by factors of like 4. (not only would everything cost more, but you would need a lot more of it to reach desirable outcomes)

you are not really gaining with changes like silk, you are just increasing the amount you have to grind.

short version, silk needs to come down, some other things need to go up, but its worthless, if making them go up, requires everyone to need more of them to achieve the same state they used to be at.

I was referring to the ascended only recipes for metal and leather T7 refinement to require 300 materials. This will negate the argument that it’s unfair that non-light armor players need less materials. The only argument that would remain is the differences in acquisition which would mainly be the differences in obtaining cloth/leather vs ore.

tekfan.3179:

John Smith.4610:

You don’t micromanage markets to maintain equilibrium. Not only is it an incredible amount of work you can never be wrong in, it’s not physically possible inside a live game environment.

You assume that absolute parity is required inside of tiers, I don’t necessarily agree.

A micromanagement for abolutely even prices would be ridiculous, I agree.
Yet, we’ve seen crafting-recipes change or new sinks for materials being created, so that some items won’t become trash-items and their worth doesn’t go down to vendor value.
Possible even changes in the looting-tables no one of us players could know of.

Absolute parity is an illusion, the market will always change, based on supply and demand.
However, at least from the crafting recipes we could get a bit of equality.

As I followed this topic, I made a simple calculation on the price of crafting ascended equipment.
I admit, I kept it simple by taking prices for Bolts of damask, Elonian Leather, Deldrimor Steel Ingots, inscriptions and insignias(both Zojja, as zerker is the meta) from the BLTC, instead of calculating their specific material-cost by crafting recipe.
Not included in the calculation are: Recipe-costs(has to be paid only once per item), laurels, karma, skill-points and accountbound items you have to farm(Bloodstone Dust, Dragonite Ore, etc).

With prices I took from the BLTC right now, weapons cost inbetween 63.336-74.736 gold.

For ascended armor, I calculated the price for a whole set each.
First off I calculated a base-cost, depending on the materials all recipes share.
With the prices for zojja-insignias I took from the BLTC right now, each profession has a base-cost of 347.292 gold.

Next I added the differing costs, which includes damask, elonian leather and deldrimor steel ingots for the inner and outer layer of the armors. Also the additional 360 Spools of Gossamer Thread for light and medium outer layers and the 150 Thermocatalytic reagents for the heavy outer layer(btw, that difference is around 8 silver).
The total numbers are:
Light: 608.016 gold
Medium: 465.816 gold
Heavy: 510.926 gold

I’ll take the lowest priced armor as my base for a comparision:
Heavy armor users pay 9.68% more in total than medium armor users. In my perspective that would still be OK.
Light armor users, however, pay 30.53% more than medium armor users.

Total parity? No, I don’t need that.
But I’d find it preferable to ensure that there isn’t such a disparity.

Edit: I forgot to add the price for crystalline dust into my excel sheet, the numbers are corrected now.

Please base your costs off the base components such as silk scraps rather than bolts of damask or even the insignia. All you’re doing is inflating the number by including additional taxes and the profit margins that come from time-gated crafting. Bolt of damask can produce around a 2G profit after taxes depending on when during the day you buy the components and then eventually sell it.

I also tend to go by the prices that it would cost if you had placed buy orders although the difference tends to be only around 30 gold. Light armor costs 431.54 gold. Medium armor costs 337.34 gold. Heavy armor costs 358.74 gold. I have bolts of damask currently costing 10.32 gold to make.

Otokomae.9356:

Wow, this is gonna go on for a while, it seems. Click the link above once again please, then click one: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-November-4-2014/first#post4552725

You can see that Echoes of the Past released on November 4. Within just one week, Silk Scrap prices saw a massive drop of nearly 27%; it was the fastest drop in Silk prices in nearly a year. Two days after the Silverwastes map entered the game, the the Supply of Silk outstripped the Demand for nearly the first time since Ascended armor entered the game. There was a spike in price with the September patch, but after the initial rush the price clearly seemed to have settled at around 2.75-2.85 silver, with no reason to think that it would have fallen much lower than that (until the Silverwastes map was released). In fact, the price of Silk Scraps was CLIMBING on the day that the Silverwastes patch was released, reaching nearly 3 silver before the patch hit.

After the bugged chests were fixed, the price recovered slightly for just a few days, then continued to drop. Between the patch to fix bugged chests on November 10 and the release of the Wintersday on December 16, Silk Scrap prices dropped by more than 25%. That’s in only a month!

As I said earlier, the price on this one item has recovered from Wintersday already. On Decemeber 15, 1 day before the Wintersday patch, Silk Scraps were 2.36 silver each; 2 hours ago, Silk Scraps were selling for 2.36 silver each. This is still a massive drop from the 2.90 silver prices that we saw 1 day before the Silverwastes map was released.

I know it’s really hard for some people to be wrong on the internet or whatever, and especially on a forum for a game they play often, etc, etc, but everything here is clearly pointing to the Silverwastes having an effect on the price of many items, including Silk Scraps.

So what was the point of you linking the patch notes? In my post I had stated that the sharp drop when SW was released was due to a bug with the chests which was resolved on the 10th. All your post did was confirm what I stated. Thank you.

Silk scraps averaged between 2.8-2.9 silver with the fluctuations due to the various timezones logging in for the day. After the bug was fixed, this ranged from a high of 2.7 silver and a low of 2.4 silver until Wintersday. Again these fluctuations were because of people logging on for the daily. There was a downward trend kitten chest farming was made public like what you see today.

Let’s compare percentages. Let’s say that silk scraps averaged 2.86 silver before SW and then averaged 2.36 before Wintersday. This would be a 50 copper drop or a ~17.5% drop in value. Now comes Wintersday which had an average of around 1.8 silver. This would be a difference of 56 copper or ~23.73% drop in value.

The most significant drop that we saw over the past several months was due to Wintersday. I never said that it was the only drop as I have received a lot of silk from chest farming. If it was then I would have said that silk only dropped because of Wintersday. Anyway, SW is a nice source of silk for those willing to put the time into doing it.

EDIT: if you want to discuss this further, please post in the silk scraps thread. This discussion is more suited there.

Otokomae.9356:

Ayrilana.1396:

Otokomae.9356:

SirPookins.9851:

Has anyone noticed the silverwastes/vinewrath event severely impacting the economy right now? Rewards for it seem to be greater than any other event or dungeon in pve at the moment. I cant think of any of factor that would be effecting prices this much, please balance this event!

The Silverwastes and its notorious “chest farm” have affected a lot of prices on the Trading Post, with Globs of Ectoplasm probably being the most noticeable for many players.

Just before The Silverwastes map was introduced, Ectos were selling for over 46 silver each, and the Demand for Ectos was more than 7 times the Supply! Looking at GW2TP.com today, it seems that the Sell price for Ectos is down to around 30 silver a drop of nearly 35%, and for the first time in recent memory, the Supply of Ectos actually EXCEEDS the Demand! So the market on Ectos has been completely turned upside-down by The Sivlerwastes’ chest farm, or at least the timing of this massive change in the market certainly lines up with its release well.

There are other items that clearly seem to have been affected by The Silverwastes, such as Silk Scraps (which is being vehemently argued about in another thread right now), which has been turned upside-down in a similar way, but unlike Ectos, the market on Silk Scraps has already begun to recover.

You get more rares from the labyrinth keys and rare bags upon breach and VW successes than you do from the chest farm.

Silk dropped significantly because of Wintersday.

It really only takes a few seconds to look at GW2TP or GW2Spidey before posting something like this on the forums. Anyway, I’ll make it as easy as I can for you; click here: https://www.gw2tp.com/item/19748-silk-scrap

You’ll see that the massive swing in silk scrap supply happened in November, during the same week that Echoes of the Past (and the Silverwastes map) was released. Wintersday started on Decemeber 16 last year, I believe, and it certainly exaggerated the changes in supply and price of silk scraps, but the market has already recovered from Wintersday entirely (current prices are almost exactly what they were the day before Wintersday released), but we are still nowhere near the prices on Silk that we saw before the Silverwastes map’s release.

Silk shot up in September because of the collection. I crafted ascended leather even though I hadn’t planned on using medium armor classes at the time. I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one who did something similar to this. The price was starting to fall before SW was released. Also note how supply had an upward curve well before SW?

That massive drop you saw was because of the bugged chests which brought on a large influx of materials, silk included. This was fixed on the 10th and you’ll see that prices rose back up again while remaining relatively stable until Wintersday.

Yeah. I couldn’t imagine trying to micro-manage the economy. Doing it for one item would definitely be an unnecessary hassle but imagine doing it for many many items. You can be certain if someone wants it done for silk then other people would request for it to be done for other items as well.

Wanze.8410:

Can one of you economy buffs tell me what this means?

I attached an image that you may appreciate.

Otokomae.9356:

SirPookins.9851:

Has anyone noticed the silverwastes/vinewrath event severely impacting the economy right now? Rewards for it seem to be greater than any other event or dungeon in pve at the moment. I cant think of any of factor that would be effecting prices this much, please balance this event!

The Silverwastes and its notorious “chest farm” have affected a lot of prices on the Trading Post, with Globs of Ectoplasm probably being the most noticeable for many players.

Just before The Silverwastes map was introduced, Ectos were selling for over 46 silver each, and the Demand for Ectos was more than 7 times the Supply! Looking at GW2TP.com today, it seems that the Sell price for Ectos is down to around 30 silver a drop of nearly 35%, and for the first time in recent memory, the Supply of Ectos actually EXCEEDS the Demand! So the market on Ectos has been completely turned upside-down by The Sivlerwastes’ chest farm, or at least the timing of this massive change in the market certainly lines up with its release well.

There are other items that clearly seem to have been affected by The Silverwastes, such as Silk Scraps (which is being vehemently argued about in another thread right now), which has been turned upside-down in a similar way, but unlike Ectos, the market on Silk Scraps has already begun to recover.

You get more rares from the labyrinth keys and rare bags upon breach and VW successes than you do from the chest farm.

Silk dropped significantly because of Wintersday.

MakubeC.3026:

Just here to say I liked the old Dailys best.
After this update went live I’ve done less than 10 dailies and I play almost every day.
The new ones are boring, annoying (looking at you daily profession win) and plain weird, like the Ascalon Vista.

The motto behind dailies was “You should be able to complete your dailies by just playing the game your own way”. This is not the actual case.

Who established that motto? Was it Anet or players? If Anet, please provide the source.

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

If these mastery points are anything other than level based, I can see that I won’t get bothered with them.

I can’t be bothered make any new character because I refuse to go and collect traits for them. Anet have said they are going to “fix” their trait stupidity, and I really hope they are not just replacing that with “mastery stupidity”.

Except, unlike the trait system, this will be account bound.

They won’t do this for the same reasons that they don’t have player to player trading.

Once you’ve unlocked a Mastery track tier with Mastery points, you can begin training that Mastery. Mastery tracks are trained by gaining experience while the Mastery track is slotted on the Mastery training bar. Higher tiers in Mastery tracks require progressively more Mastery points and more experience to fully train.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/reimagining-progression-the-mastery-system/

Astralporing.1957:

“Here lies Knowledge. How we miss it now that it is gone.”

Tomes, not Tombs, please. Not sure why people insist on repeating the same mistake over and over again.

They really should make a Tomb of Knowledge now which grants a mastery point when you complete it.

Forgotten Legend.9281:

i don’t think the issue for players is individual price or availability of silk. the issue is apparent when looking at crafting recipes. silk is a tier 6 crafting ingredient. so is mithril.

to craft 1 deldrimor steel ingot, a player needs to refine 100 mithril ore into 50 mithril ingots to make the daily gated ingredient. at 43 copper each, that’s 43 silver.

to craft 1 bolt of damask, a player needs to refine 300 silk scraps into 100 bolts of silk in order to craft the daily component required for damask. at a cost of 2 silver 9 copper each, that’s well over 6 gold.

43 silver for one component in one recipe, 6 gold for the equivalent component in another recipe of the same tier.

this is another example of tiers within tiers (or rather, not treating recipes in the same tier the same) other examples of treating recipes in the same tier differently, is level 80 exotic crafting.

for example

at launch, orichalcum imbued inscriptions followed the recipe pattern: 5 orichalcum plated dowels, 5 ectos, 5 fine tier 6 crafting ingredients.

all the new inscriptions (added after launch, such as nomad’s, zealot’s, celestial) require many more custom ingredients. (such as 500 watchwork sprockets, or daily gated charged quartz crystals, which require 25 quartz crystals each, for a total of 125 quartz crystals)

there is a great disparity hear. one recipe in the tier requires 5 raw tier 6 ingredients, while another recipe in the same tier requires 500 raw tier 7 mats, further refined. (i call them tier 7 mats because they are not available as drops from killing level 80ish enemies. they are only available through specific events which are no longer in the game, or from singular gathering nodes, which are mostly only available in home instances on a daily timer)

again, the issue here is the disparity between recipes of the same tier, being treated as though they are different tier recipes. all exotic recipes need to be the same tier formula for the recipes. all ascended recipes need to follow the same tier formula for the recipes. Otherwise, what’s the point of splitting them into exotic and ascended to begin with?

Not all items in the same tier are acquired the same nor used the same.

Just wait until HoT is released and mastery points are now visible to every one. You can be certain that that will be used to filter players.

azurrei.5691:

Ayrilana.1396:

azurrei.5691:

Ayrilana.1396:

The +30 to a single stat will not significantly alter his results and conclusion.

Sure, but looking at just armor, which this thread is mainly complaining about, it is a 4% boost in power over exotic which is rather significant as he states it as a 1% increase, which it isn’t.

Did you run the numbers?

what numbers? +44 power over exotic is ~4% boost to armor power

A 4% boost to stats does not equal a 4% boost to damage.

azurrei.5691:

Ayrilana.1396:

The +30 to a single stat will not significantly alter his results and conclusion.

Sure, but looking at just armor, which this thread is mainly complaining about, it is a 4% boost in power over exotic which is rather significant as he states it as a 1% increase, which it isn’t.

Did you run the numbers?

I have been getting them more often now than I had been before. It’s just RNG.

The +30 to a single stat will not significantly alter his results and conclusion.

maddoctor.2738:

Aidan Savage.2078:

Shiyo.3578:

Aidan Savage.2078:

Any chance someone could also summarize what the thread’s about at this point? It started out as being a whine about the cost of silk, and then mutated into a blob about ascended being necessary (it’s not, outside of easing the grind of AR in fractals and completing the achievement), silk being too high for damask (anyone remember when linen was more costly than silk at one point?), and cloth wearers being “shafted” by the crafting system.

Over 10% damage increase is 100% necessary, especially in WVW.

Fun fact: skill coefficients means it’s not a 10% damage increase by using ascended armor. A warrior using an ascended greatsword, exotic armor, and ascended trinkets (ascended) has, without runes and sigils in play, +1073 power, +734 precision, +734 ferocity. Add in ascended armor? That goes to +1087 power, +745 precision, +745 ferocity. Basic AA chain damage with exotic armor (~2600 armor target): 573,573,738. Basic AA chain with ascended armor vs same target: 577,577,743.

So… uh… yea, ascended armor being necessary outside of AR resistance in fractals? Total, utter, complete, rank dolyak kitten. Upgrading to an ascended weapon makes a bigger difference than upgrading to ascended armor.

*To make it simpler to read:

• Ascended weapon, trinkets, exotic armor: +1073 power, +734 precision, +734 ferocity, AA chain damage 573/573/738
• Ascended weapon, trinkets, armor: +1087 power, +745 precision, +745 ferocity, AA chain damage 577/577/743

Result? Ascended armor still not necessary. In fact, the difference between exotic armor and ascended armor is roughly +14/11/11, barely over a 1% increase in stats. Meanwhile, exotic to ascended trinkets gives a far bigger boost of around +70/35/35, much closer to a ~7-8% increase (averaged between the 3 stats).

edit: here’s another hilarious fact, it costs 48g to craft zojja’s claymore (a zerker ascended weapon) to gain a bigger damage boost than an entire ascended armor set.

This ^^

The gains from Ascended Armor are non-existing. I don’t see in your calculations the Weapon Damage difference between Ascended and Exotic, making Ascended Weapons EVEN more valuable over Ascended Armor.

And that last part about Zojja’s Claymore is the best part. I’d love to see full calculations how much 10 Weapons cost over a full set of Armor.

It’s about even cost-wise compared to crafting light ascended.

Shiyo.3578:

Aidan Savage.2078:

Any chance someone could also summarize what the thread’s about at this point? It started out as being a whine about the cost of silk, and then mutated into a blob about ascended being necessary (it’s not, outside of easing the grind of AR in fractals and completing the achievement), silk being too high for damask (anyone remember when linen was more costly than silk at one point?), and cloth wearers being “shafted” by the crafting system.

Over 10% damage increase is 100% necessary, especially in WVW.

The thread is about silk and thus armor only as silk is not used for anything else. Armor does not give ou anywhere near a 10% damage boost.

The following is a better explanation regarding what this thread is about.

phys.7689:

Aidan Savage.2078:

Any chance someone could also summarize what the thread’s about at this point? It started out as being a whine about the cost of silk, and then mutated into a blob about ascended being necessary (it’s not, outside of easing the grind of AR in fractals and completing the achievement), silk being too high for damask (anyone remember when linen was more costly than silk at one point?), and cloth wearers being “shafted” by the crafting system.

the thread, from its very first post was about the cost of silk in respect to ascended crafting and its imbalance

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/players/OMG-If-you-only-knew-this-tips-for-new-players/first#post20871

OP isn’t even in the top 200 on the leaderboards so I don’t see what their issue is as AP doesn’t really matter except for bragging rights amongst those that care about it.

There’s a difference between viable and optimal.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/viable
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/optimal

All builds are viable as the game was designed in such a way to make that possible. I can complete almost all PvE content (except high level fractals) in random greens with no traits assigned. Since almost all PvE content can completed like this, and adding gear doesn’t negatively impact the player, all gear and upgrades are viable as well.

Optimal is where you go with the best build and gear for a given situation. In PvE, berserker gear and full DPS builds are optimal for the most part. Assassins, or a mix of assassins, may be better for certain classes.

Please understand that meta builds tend to shift towards what you’d consider optimal builds and these are not the only way that you can play the game.

Daddicus.6128:

Ayrilana.1396:

Everyone that was playing the game between that announcement and the season was well underway understood this.

While I agree with your overall post, I have to disagree with this. I think it could have been better-advertised to existing players. Now, I’m an old fart with aging synopses, but I am a player, and I almost missed it. Blame it on being old, but still, I did almost miss it the first time.

Don’t get me wrong; I logged in most every day then as now. What I mean is that I didn’t understand that you HAD to log in to unlock the content until my son-in-law mentioned it. From that point on, I made certain I logged in.

They had a blog post which I could link if you do not believe me. This blog post was also linked into the news feed you see every time that you log into the game. All active players would have seen this. You then have this spread across the forums and reddit by other players. It was discussed a lot on map chat when the blog post was released just like all of their other blog posts have been. You also had the YouTube bloggers who made videos about it. Various gaming websites also did articles about the change.

The information was very widespread and available to active players.

Shiyo.3578:

xDudisx.5914:

Also in spvp there are not players running around with -40% condi duration food.

You can buy +50% condition duration food/potions.

You cannot use consumables in sPvP…

It’s likely whichever IP that your character is defaulting too. I had the issue with EotM and couldn’t access my character until the current match ended (3 hour one). Guesting has worked for people in other maps as it puts you into another instance of that map which isn’t bugged.

Devildoc.6721:

John Smith.4610:

Sounds to me like two independent issues being discussed.
1. Aggregate price for silk and market velocity
2. Farming for individual mats is hard

I would argue that these issues aren’t actually related and shouldn’t be discussed as if they were.

I think the biggest issue at hand is that it takes twice as much silk (100 silk bolts vs 50 thick leather, 50 mithril ingots, and 50 elder wood planks) as the other Tier 5 mats required to make the ectoplasm refinement materials. Please explain to us why this is the case when the only source of silk is breaking down light armor drops, where you can get mithril and elder wood from mining/chopping down trees AND salvaging. It’s easier to get the other mats AND you need less of them.

If you only needed 50 bolts of silk to make the starter mat for damask it would be more balanced (though still more expensive because like I said, there are fewer ways to get silk than mithril or elder wood).

You could possibly alleviate more of the difference by making bolts of silk require 2 scraps each rather than 3.

If that’s really the issue then double the amount of leather and mithril that is needed. Problem solved as all three are now even.

laokoko.7403:

RoseofGilead.8907:

This. One group I was in had one guy insisting on having one person getting the pheromone from the plant in the corner, even though we kept telling him that a random person will get the buff every so often. That was a “fun” run.

he’s not wrong. there is a plant which gives pheromone. If the group is clueless it’s a good idea that some experienced person just grab the pheromone every time in case that random person dont’ know what to do.

Except I don’t believe that the buff is exclusive so you can run the risk of multiple people having it causing the ooze to ping pong between the players.

Aomine.5012:

People don’t do this path for one, and ONLY one reason:
Noob uncoordinated team can’t get the oozz part done. Period.
If they make oozz a slight bit easier (Make the time in gap after inserting one oozz 1 minute instead of 30 secs, less adds), people will do it for sure.

People still struggle with the next boss fight since apparently having whoever has the buff lead the ooze to soak up oil is difficult.

The only change that could be made would be the option to skip cutscenes and unnecessary lengthy dialogues.

Dave.2536:

Ayrilana.1396:

Dave.2536:

Obtena.7952:

I think this argument goes back to the same thing we see time and time again … ascended armor isn’t a requirement to progress with your character for anything but a limited aspect of the game. In that case, the cost is not prohibitive.

Progression is progression, regardless of whether or not it is “required”, and especially if it offers any sort of stat bonuses (full ascended is about 8-12% stronger than full exotic and 2-3% tougher). The fact remains that the progression is extremely imbalanced.

You are free to set your expectations low, but do not expect others to do the same.

Supposedly, the rate for silk dropping is biased to light armor users

I am sure someone here will dig up a post that this bias no longer applies at level 80.

Except the discussion is about armor which offers very minor increases. Whether or not full ascended increases damage by ~13% isn’t relevant to a discussion about silk prices.

I was going off the context provided by Obtena which seemed to look at the whole tier. I also mentioned the 2-3% defensive boost which comes fully from the armor and can be highly relevant in things like WvW or any sort of tanky build (whose merits and usefulness are not to be discussed when talking about progression in a play-how-you-want game). Some people also find even 1 stat point to be significant progression, and they can and should have that right.

Are you ready to stop nitpicking and contribute to the discussion now?

I’ll re-post your post and bold where he was talking about armor. Notice that he was not talking about anything else.

Dave.2536:

Obtena.7952:

I think this argument goes back to the same thing we see time and time again … ascended armor isn’t a requirement to progress with your character for anything but a limited aspect of the game. In that case, the cost is not prohibitive.

Progression is progression, regardless of whether or not it is “required”, and especially if it offers any sort of stat bonuses (full ascended is about 8-12% stronger than full exotic and 2-3% tougher). The fact remains that the progression is extremely imbalanced.

You are free to set your expectations low, but do not expect others to do the same.

See what I mean? You inserted the argument about full ascended being 8-12% strong than full exotics when the discussion, and his post, was strictly about armor.