Guild Wars 2

Carpboy.7145:

How is this god mode?

Because stealth.

I’m a thief and I agree with this nerf suggestion.

Stealth is already a strong mechanic, but they combinate it with a short cd and strong traits. I don’t know, why they do this, but that is the problem. -.-’

Alex.9268:

Pistol whip got buffed accidentally and should get nerfed, months later.

Funny, and I thought the 15% Dmgnerf came before the delay reduction. ?/

Maybe Sanduskel have right.

ANet dont hate thieves, they love them.
They love them so much, that they see the thief as a cuddly toy, and toys dont hurt somebody.

infantrydiv.1620:

How dumb are you people? Thief burst is absolutely insane in wvw.

Is this a joke thread? Are you all a bunch of trolls?

Yes, in WvW. What is with the rest?

WvW is not the only game mode, and burst should not be the only thing, that thieves can do.

Anet don’t hate thieves, because hate is an emotion, they despise and ignore them.

Why is every thief metaweaponset OP?
As the most thieves play with S/D, was S/D OP, and now S/P? Strange, dont you think?

Thieves are already weak, and shaky arguments like ,high dmg or stealth, two bad designed coremechanics,are not enough to call him strong or fine.

PW have evades, because thieves would die in secs without it,
PW have a stun do hold the enemies long enough in position to be sure, that it deals dmg and the dmg must be so high to compensate the terrible deff.

BTW: The main dmg comes from First Strikes, Executioner and Lead Attacks (or another 25 point trait). Without all this, the dmg were 40% lower or halved.

Everything what PW do, is necessary and fine, only the cost of 5 ini are a little to low and should increase to 6.

PW is one of the few good skills, that these class have. The most other weapons, skills traits and (core-)mechanics are bad and a bigger problem for thieves and the other classes in GW2, that a single weaponskill.

Mrbig.8019:

Currently, thief issue is survivability, too much of it. Evade spamming with shortbow is ridicolous.

It’s fine if a thief oneshots you, it’s not fine if he’s also able to outsustain you.

This changes are more than enough to bring thief back in line with other proffs.

Good joke!
Thief survivability is weak without stealth, especially condition remove and even deathblossom is a better evade skill than Disabling Shot.
“oneshot” is a word, that dont exist for thieves outside of WvW.

Hodori.1068:

Nerfing Warrior regen…why Anet!? WHY!?

The better question is: Why nerfing only the regen?

100% Agree

CC immunity is terrible for the buildvarity in PvE and for a gamemode, where Dmg>All is, is this a shame.

Dont you said, that GW2 is a game without the Holy Trinity, but with dmg, control and support?
Well, we have dmg (a lot of dmg), no control and only low support.

It’s time to improve the PvE and give non-dmg builds a right to exist!!

Why dont you replace Unshakable and Defiance, with an alternative? For example a skill that give the enemy stability or something like the Hardened Scales buff from Tequatl, but for CC.

Travlane.5948:

McFribble.2349:

Travlane.5948:

McFribble.2349:

wolfpaq.7354:

Every class is getting new traits. That is part of the trait preview. Where the hell are our NON TRAIT balance changes? Sorry, but our only mentioned balance change being a nerf to shortbow is preposterous.

Read the Warrior section and then complain. They literally had nothing for us. And you think thieves got jacked with terrible traits, lol. Most of the Warrior ones that look like they COULD be good aren’t even in the right trait line…

100% Crit chance on Burst skill…conveniently NOT in the trait line all about burst skills, lol.

1k toughness is beastlytho.

Again, may look good at first, but then you really have to look at how much an extra 1k toughness is actually reducing (and for 4 seconds), compared to having 4 seconds of pure damage immunity that is already in the same Grandmaster trait line. You don’t get to have both.

Clearly the 4 seconds of free Endure Pain is the better option, since not all classes actually HAVE a stun (or easily on hand for that matter).

4 secs of endure pain on a 90 sec timer would never outweight 1k toughness. my character doesnt evne have 1k toughness to start with. not even really close

60secs, and it can outweight much more than 1k toughness, when you have the right situation.

Chill should have an effect on the Inireg.
Thieves shouldn’t have a semi-immunity, while every other class get the full effect of it.

It’s as similiar as a hardcounter and you know how bad they are..

I agree, that the currently kind of stealth, bring many problems with it and should change.

But I disagree about Initiative.
It’s right that they can use the same skill again, again and again, but that dont mean that we have to do it.
Quite the opposite, every thief who spam his attacks is very invulnerable against counters.

The Initiative is fine, how it is.
I see more problems in the cost/dmg relation from the most skills. Some are very cheap, while other are very high.
HS for example is too strong, at >50% Life. It could help alot (against the HS-spammer), if 20-35% from the dmg is move to the <25% part of this skill.
PW is fine how it is, because the evade effect runs not the full duration of PW and the “swing” of the pistol make it easy to dodge/block, while they are fixed in place.
Only a slight increase in the cost to 6 ini could be neccessary.

At first, you should stop adding these “100% immunity” Skills/Traits!
Its not good for the game, if only one trait or skill, can neutralize a whole build or in the case of Warriors and Engineers, to survive alone against a group of 5 or more players and this for several minutes.

GW1 have a cap at 75% and this is good, because it’s dont allow classes to dominate others, but keep helpful.

I hope you will do the same in GW2 and add a cap at 75%, for a better, more balanced game and fairer game.

I dont think, it is a bug and if, I like it.

Arachnid.4062:

when I’m playing my thief, I try and to play a dif spec than pistol whip. But all the other specs are bad because they dont have enough evades. So my suggestions is this:

1. Add evade to clusterbomb while it is in air
2. Add evade to heartseeker
3. Add evade to cloak and dagger
4. Add evade to unload

in this way these specs are now viable like pistolwhip and so everyone can play them. Now all thieve builds hav a way to burst withot getting damage too much

Haha, a good joke.

Arkantos.7460:

the only question for myself:
WHERE are the PROMISED pistolwipe changes ……?

I ask me: Where is the classmechanic, that give us our name :/

So many bad designed coremechanics, which are untouched for 18 months and I see no improvements in the near future

Good to hear that come new traits, but builds without 30 points in a traitline keep “weak” and that our whole deffense is still part of SA dont make it enjoyable, for everyone who want to play builds without stealth.

Wow, I can not believe that it still give people, who thing the “playtime” is an argument. -.-

If you want to balance stealth, then must you change the duration and revealed time and improve the survivability outside of stealth, to increase the buildvarieties

coglin.1867:

Black Teagan.9215:

Conditions ignore the armor, isnt this enough?

Well it could be if direct damage didn’t do more damage, thus negating the effects of armor on a flat damage comparison to conditions, not to mention cleanses.

That’s right, but this was not the point from the OP.

I would love new horns, especially Ronsohorns

Conditions ignore the armor, isnt this enough?

“Why hasn’t S. Arts been nerfed yet?”
Because SA isnt the main problem, it is stealth.

Dean Calaway.9718:

Jelzouki.4128:

Why does everyone think we’re OP?

Because when you go on youtube and type Thief vs Zerg you see things no other profession can pull off.

Yes, if you search only after “thief vs zerg” then will you never find any other videos, especially these were the other classes do the same.

Sry dudes, but every class is a victim of ANets “Let’s balance all modes together” position.
As long as they dont change their minds, we can discuss about the balance patches for eternity.

“When did we become ’ OP’?”

Since ANet decide to give you everything and then buffs against your only weakness.

Zutha.5091:

Sure, then warriors will have everything

Nope, you forget stealth, that comes next.

frifox.5283:

That’s up to you. I’m not here to interpret the data, only to report it.

Ok.

Maybe it could be a great idea, if someone create a thread about the generally mechanics of this game.

I love this/these “Thief is OP” thread(s), always if the thief can something better than other classes, he is OP in this particular field.

At first (single-)dmg, then initiative (=CD’s), then stealth, then dodges and now mobility and shadowsteps.
What is your plan? Do you want to nerf everything on this class, until it has the lowest/weakest thing of all?

What comes next!? Poison spreading? Steal? Armor? To pick in one’s nose?

You want nerf dodges and stealth? Fine do it, but then remove also every deffskill of the other classes.

If you don’t like it, that the thief is faster than your class, than learn to accept that every class has his own special advantages and dont cry that the thief is faster, while your class can another things better.
And when you know that you cant run away, then dont do it and fight and try to survive, instead of let them kill you easily.
(Btw: Dont write that thieves are runner and reset every fight, if they cant win, if you try always the same.)

Don’t get me wrong, I can and would like it, if we can discuss about problems in this game and how the can get fixed for a fairer game, but I see almost entirely QQ Threads about thieves, about everything, without any suggestions.
And this mainly, because your weak class is weaker then another weak class.

Maybe you should first learn this class and scrutinize it, before you try to tell us or ANet we are OP.
But yes, the thiefclass have many problems, but they will never be fixed, if you just cry for nerfs and send this class into the hell, without to understand why we are, how we are.

PS: Everybody cry about the dmg of thieves and that they can destroy every squishy deffless(!) fullzerkerbuild, but I have never seen any threads about the classes, who can deff herself, a lifetime, against groups, while they kill one after another.

The charakter speed is limit to 400 in/s.
So, what do you try to tell us?

Geiir.7603:

Thief is really strong in dungeons – if played right. It’s one of the more unforgiving professions to play because we do good in melee, but if we mess up once we are dead because of the hard hitting attacks in PvE.

Do you mean AC and CoF, the easiest dungeons in this game or even harder dungeons?

What ever you mean, PvE is not all dungeons and stealth. The Openworld is even a part of (end-)PvE and there are they very weak.

DeceiverX.8361:

Thief doesn’t need a buff. The class is good at what it does and if it did any more it would just be overpowered. If anything, offhand pistol and/or heartseeker need a nerf.

Where is the thief “good” and with which builds??

1) S/P ; SB
2) 20/10/0/20/20
3) PvE ; PvP

Zach.3264:

Why can’t we all do 1 damage and heal 5 every 15 seconds!!!!111one!one!!one!111one!!one!

Yes, lets them do this, but this wouldn’t stop these “Thief is OP” Threads.

McFribble.2349:

Tao.5096:

Jelzouki.4128:

If these people who claim thief to be OP ever played a thief, they would realize that trying to enter the fight in sPvP while capping a point that has a 2v2 or 3v3 going on can be deadly. We have stealth and evades so we can get away from dying so easily!!! If we did not have these skills we would surely be KO’d in seconds from any class that has some sort of zerker cc or conditions even! Most of our condition removal is in stealth!

I have a tendency to tell each Warrior which says that Thief is OP to reroll something else, because he’s beyond saving.

I have an 80 Thief, an 80 Warrior, and close to getting my Elementalist to 80.

Thief is BY FAR the easiest class of these three to play in PvP. The QQ is sound. I suggest YOU try playing a class that doesn’t have two reliable escapes on hand at nearly all times, and then tell me thieves aren’t an uphill fight from the get go.

Yea maybe with stealth, but try to play without stealth and you wont trust your eyes, how fast you getting down, especially in this Condition/CC Meta, or if everybody attacks you.

Zero Day.2594:

Yeah you should look through the wish list, especially posts that are “Originally by” someone or link to a thread…. Someone complained about that ability we steal from mesmers that gives us all the boons.

I know, to have one time all boons for 5 secs is OP at a class with 0 deff and only 10k base hp, but fine on the guard with Save Yourselves!. Nevertheless guards have auto heal, many blocks and much more synergy, incl. Contemplation of Purity. -.-

Maugetarr.6823:

You should spend more time in the profession balance forum. Lately, even stolen skills like WA and consume ecto get called OP, especially when we can trait to get them on a 21 second CD. Check out the nerfs wish list. There are links to these ridiculous threads.

I talk about the base mechanics and not about stolen items, who need a specific enemy.

I believe, they think the thief is OP, because they can’t or won’t see, that the thief is a very broken class (without love from the devs), who need help and not more nerfs.

Nearly every QQ Thread, who try to tell us thieves are OP, relates to Stealth + SA.
I have never seen a OP thread about Acrobatic, Steal or one of the many other traitlines and skills in this forum.
Or that the dmg is too high, if a thief fight without 30 Points in CS.

The different in the survivability between Stealth and Non-Stealth builds is enormous, exactly like the dmg between a build with 30 points in CS (+ 25 in another) and a build with not more than 20 points in any traitlines.

Underwater have thieves no (good) access to condition remove or stealth and the traps and venoms weaker, than a cold.

This are just a few examples, it gives a considerable amount more.

The hammer is fine, how it is.
Hammers have more weight than the other weapons, so its logical that they are slower, but stronger, and AA s3 give everyone in the near a very strong buff.
BTW: The field follow your target, what can be very useful.

“Bad guys” (Thief) are funnier and more interest than “good guys”

ens.9854:

Teleports are always OP in every game that has them and thief has the most teleports therefore thief OP u welcome

Ok and what makes “teleports” OP?
And why is a class with a lot of hardcounter fine, while a class, who is nearly dead in PvE OP?

Zero Day.2594:

Thieves are a discriminate class.

Fix it for your

Gugus.1462:

Black Teagan.9215:

ens.9854:

When every profession can defend themselves adequately against every other profession EXCEPT thief, there is a problem.

This thread is not about who should be the best roamer or single target DPS. It is about how thieves, by leaps and bounds more than other professions, can totally ignore the defensive mechanics used by other professions for survival to the point where running a berserker build ceases to be an option.

Haha! Say this my warrior, who kills three thieves simultaneous last week.

Please also inform my elementalist, whose chances of surviving a good thief equal those of surviving a forest fire while camping in the %!$*ing forest.

Why thieves are “OP” comes from their design.
They need alot of stealth and evades to survive. Removing it from the weaponskills, would make them easier to hit and not so dangerous, if they spam their attacks, but they would die within seconds without it.

Otherwise comes their extreme dmg from the last 10 points in CS.
The dmg different between 20 and 30 Points in CS is extreme.
With 20 Points I deal around 5k Dmg in PvE, with 30 around 8k – 9k; and these +80% exist also in the other gamemodes

I see no problem with PW.
Yes its stronger, but every weaponskill is stronger than the AA, otherwise nobody would use them.
Although the thief have an Inisystem, with that we can use it more than one time, has PW many disadvantages, which make it weak and the thief to an easy target, when someone starts to spam it.

ens.9854:

When every profession can defend themselves adequately against every other profession EXCEPT thief, there is a problem.

This thread is not about who should be the best roamer or single target DPS. It is about how thieves, by leaps and bounds more than other professions, can totally ignore the defensive mechanics used by other professions for survival to the point where running a berserker build ceases to be an option.

Haha! Tell this my warrior, who kills three thieves simultaneous last week.

Currently are 5 Chars on lvl 80.
Mesmer, Thief, Warrior, Guardian and Nekro.

But I play every class more than one time from lvl 1 to 80. The melees around 4 times, each

Forzani.2584:

Terrahero.9358:

I gotta love these threads.

“This guy crit 6k on heartseeker!”
“Its fine cause this guy can crit 8k on eviscerate”
“Yah, but the 6k can be spammed!”
“pff, the guy from 6k is squishy… the 8k guy is hard to kill!”
“But this guy can combo from stealth instantly and drop 15k+ on you!”
“well, this guy can chain-CC you untill you die.”
“…so can this guy!”
“But this one can pierce a ranged attack for 19k!”
“Well this one can backstab you for 11k from stealth!”

Ow, but yah… conditions are overpowered.

It’s called misdirection, and many think using misdirection is a good debate tactic.

It’s more that everyone try to compare a cucumber with a cactus’.

I believe your Graphiccard is to slowly

The warrior was never a “free kill”.
Already after the release, was it no big problem to fight and defeat against up to 3 persons at the same time, especially if all are melees.
I know that, I do this more than once.

Ok, against condition builds was they a little weak, but the enhancement of the condition removes was to much and comes to fast at once.

BTT:

Why everybody use Hammer, is easy to answer.
They are really strong, against the other classes, especially the Burstskill.
The Hammer have more and fast recharge CC skills, than you can dogde or break.
Combine with the high condition remove from the 20 points in Defense and the high baseHP, the long running stability, incl. the armor of 3k as a fullberserker and hardcounters to reduce a lot of dmg, the warriors is a stronghold against Berserker and Conditionbuilds, while they deal high dmg and CCs.
And the massive heal from HS, and AH helps them alot.

The Bow isn’t important, but he help to pinned down the others.

That all warriors running the same build comes from this (^).
Why should they play a weaker build, or try to find another good/better build, if this game can be so easy?

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Black Teagan.9215:

Guys, calm down!
I want here a serious discussion, and not the next flamethread, which will close because you can not stop to tussle.

The problem is, It is always going to be a Them Vs Us sort of situation. They don’t to be balanced because it would require them having to EARN kills rather than spam buttons and win.

The same goes for other classes as well, but when a class has SO many broken mechanics – fixing them would make the class rather weak. So if they did (what they should do) nerf the insanely broken burst, fix the likes of HS and remove the Leap Finisher and lower the damage they would then have to (rightly so) buff them defensively. Power Thieves rely on BS and HS and pretty much thats it, of course they need the stealth skills as well but its BS and HS that will get the kills.

Only the poor players of a class would defend such a broken thing where spamming HS actually kills people. You can hit it what 4+ times before you run out of initiative, good job they have stealth options that dont require it…

Part of the problem was the whole initiative idea, it has clearly failed, it is WAY to hard to balance and they should just remove it. Give the class proper weapon cool downs and replace/change the traits that grant initiative to do something else. The Stealth skills would need a 15-20second cool down as well, having a skill that does THAT much damage and ONLY requires you to be in stealth is insane. No punishment if they dodge, block or immune it either is rather poor balancing as well.

I dont think that the Initiative is a problem, more the not good balanced costs of the skills, the missing skillsplitting, between the mods, and that many traits and skills only exist to be a DD. Well thieves have nothing else what they can do.

In my eyes is the thief a completly broken class. This starts with stealth, which is in this state really OP and absolute uncontrollable, and a more or less weak acrobatic traitline, followed by the stealmechanic, which is so awful and unspectacular, that I cant find any words to describe it, over S/D that’s nothing more than a dmg weapon, while it could be so much more than this.

Another aspect are the venoms, which are to weak and need to long to recharge to work alone, and this only because Venomous Aura.
The same with the traps and underwater has this clkittener survivability then a fish at land.

And things like this can I tell about most every class.

My biggest hope is, that ANet go away from the idea, of a class that dominate other classes in a 1vs1 and build a class that can really called a “Thief”.

(I mean, what does a Thief in RL, does they deals high dmg to you or stealing they something and left behind a feeling of uneasiness?)

Guys, calm down!
I want here a serious discussion, and not the next flamethread, which will close because you can not stop to tussle.