Guild Wars 2

Nuka Cola.8520:

Conncept.7638:

Black Teagan.9215:

Nuka Cola.8520:

Fade.7658:

This thread has essentially become a forum for suggestions on how to nerf thieves into the ground.

i didn’t read the whole thing and haven’t seen a single post about thieves but all stealth related skills must be toned tone. A game trying to become esports has no counter for the stealth mechanic is laughable.

Stealth have enough counter, but this isnt the reason for my reply.

The thiefbalance (his low hp and no exist deff), was build around the fact that stealth has direct counter. That mean if all class a stealthcounter skill and the thief dont a buff in health, heal or dmg, to equalizes this, will this result in a nerf.

A counter is not a counter when it is solely in the hands of the person who needs to be countered. In it’s current state, being entirely in the hands of the thief, revealed is a control mechanism, not a counter. When it is available to others, then it’s a counter.

And if you say or even think ‘AoE Spam’, your opinion is void. AoE spam works in most other games because they have resource control and much more limited movement. Resource control allows the developers to make low CD AoEs and rely on ‘mana’ to balance their use. More limited movement sets a a clear range where the stealthed player could be. Excepting thieves, GW2 has no resource control and almost no spammable AoEs, and the distance a thief is able to cover is not only huge compared to most games, is by far the most of any class in the game itself.

Furthermore, in case you haven’t noticed, the same pool of stats are available to everyone in the game, thieves can build any stat just as well as any other class The difference is, because of zero counterplay defensive mechanics, they don’t even need certain stats. You don’t ‘balance’ something by sacrificing something that wasn’t needed in the first place.

perfectly well explained and ppl that play thief and defend it to death so their little stealth never gets a counter should think for a sec.

Nope, what liefbread wrote is “perfectly explained”.

And pls dont write anything about the thief or his mechanics, if you have no clue.

“i play mesmer, thief is all i find during solo roams, i know how it works thank you…”

Fighting against a class is not the same, like to play the class

magic fly.2041:

Linguistically Inept.6583:

sminkiottone.6972:

Thief as it is right now is almost immortal with stealth

no.

A skilled one is unkillable.

Every skilled player is unkillable.

But thief players know, that they have no room for mistakes. We learned this on the hard way.
So they have to learn much faster, when its time to dodge and how the must handle his skills and inipool. Thiefs who dont learn this, belongs to the spamming faction.
This seems to be the reason, why people think the thief to strong.

Otherwise useing the most stealththiefs the element of surpriseing, but if you keep the environment in sight, they have no chance to land the first strike.

Nuka Cola.8520:

Fade.7658:

This thread has essentially become a forum for suggestions on how to nerf thieves into the ground.

i didn’t read the whole thing and haven’t seen a single post about thieves but all stealth related skills must be toned tone. A game trying to become esports has no counter for the stealth mechanic is laughable.

Stealth have enough counter, but this isnt the reason for my reply.

The thiefbalance (his low hp and no exist deff), was build around the fact that stealth has no direct counter. That mean if all class a stealthcounter skill and the thief dont a buff in health, heal or dmg, to equalizes this, will this result in a nerf.

My charrs with piercings, should look great

+1

tigirius.9014:

Puru.4217:

Any plan on making venom worth using (outside of baskilisk and devourer) without spending 30 points for a trait which is responsible for them being terrible on their own to begin with?

I agree as a PVE thief all of the venoms and poisons are useless

And dont forget the traps or the fights underwater should you play a condition build

I think this is a good way, as long it will be ranger only.

“We’re also looking at shaving the efficiency of Flanking Strike slightly, so that it now only removes 1 boon instead of 2.”

Thx ANet for the next thief nerf, as if we dont get enough. -.-
Why do you reduce the effectivity of S/D? Thiefs are already very squishy, especially in PvE or group fights. Also are the costs of 5 inis for only two boons not low (or cheap).
Maybe you should buff the steal mechanic from the thief and dont nerf it, except you will that the mesmer stay the best antiboon class in this game.

BTW, have you though about a rework of “Last Refuge”?

Finally the fix the stealth bugs and make us a little (more) useful. About time too! =)

Its Atlantis, the city from the Asura

Oh yes, “Last Refuge”

I die far more through this skill, as it saved me. -.-

In PvE it is very OP.

In PvP its relative to your own skill, if you know what you do and know how your class + the GS works (and you dont play these lame metabuilds!) then its OP, otherwise UP.

GuardianOMS.8067:

Hitman.5829:

NOTE: the thief movement skills are 4-5 times faster than any class.

This clearly needs a nerf.

Please see: Runaway warrior

Engineers can do this better

@Hitman

Your arguments are really lame.
The thief shall be the fastest class, so can he do this quite rightly.
Also, the thief has then no ini anymore and attacks is reduce on AA and he must waste two strong skills only for that.

But what is with the classes, who have a 4-5x better deffensive, as the other classes, like warriors? Or a much higher singletarget dmg and control than thiefs, like Necros and Engineers (+LH-Eles)?
Or the guardians, Eles and Engi´s who can spam more boons, than every other class?
Why dont you “cry” or write a thread about this classes, because you play these classes or why you know these classes?
Or do you just need a victim for your bad playskill against thiefs?

Did someone say something about “Armor Issues” ?

Vigil-Armor

Dagins.5163:

I think it’s a good time to take a break and wait for next patch. We need buffs to pretty much every weapon set except D/P, venom rework, trap rework, deadly arts and critical strike traits…

I would more say we need an overhaul :/

Before you can improve banners , they must be first destructable.

I’m not surprised about the actually class progression of the thief.

Already in GW1 did they only hear to the “Assassins are OP” QQ-Threads.
Until the assassine have only ONE useable Build in PvP

And the same seems happen now here, in GW2!

kittennit.7648:

Black Teagan.9215:

kittennit.7648:

Grimwolf.7163:

Doomdesire.9365:

They just need to fix 50% mobility in stealth, because it’s currently NOT working out of combat.

It’s not working in combat either. People need to stop perpetuating that myth everywhere.
The in-combat max-speed is not equal to the out of combat max speed; the max speed is capped as a 33% multiplier, period. In or out of combat.

Yes it is working. You run slower while in combat, but if u have the trait + u are in stealth u will be as fast as a out of combat with swiftness… or close to.

That can be, but you MUST be in stealth to use it. That mean that every build, who dont use stealth, like mobility builds, have an useless skill.
Or in other words: The whole thief and nearly all skills are build around stealth and that is the problem, its make him very unflexible, slowly and predictable = weak.

Would they remove the stealth requirement, were this skill much more useful.
But i dont think this were enough to make the thief generally equivalent to the other classes, in buildflexibility and something that give the thief a characteristic to the class.

Or you dont take the trait if you’re not running a stealth heavy build? There are other traits available u know…

Oh rly!? Sry I never see that it gives onther traits, than this one -.- /ironie off

Which other traits do you mean?
It gives exactly four major traits for mobility and one weak minor traits, but 11 major traits for stealth +1 minor trait. Where is the build variety if 3/4 of all traits in SA and Acrobatics are build for stealth?

JonathanSharp.7094:

Thanks guys!

We’re being very mindful about the way the Sigil of Para fix will hit Warriors. We’ve already got another balance patch brewing, and we’re being very careful to watch all the classes and see how they feel after we shave down the condition spam classes slightly.

As others have said, once we bring down the conditions that “hold down” some of the physical based classes, they will feel stronger. We’re aware of that!

Thanks again for the feedback!

Good to hear, but hard to believe.
And yes pls nerf the their heal signet or make the heal addicted from the adrenalin bars, and change the stun from the hammer burstskill into a daze, also from the maze (or reduce the duration).

kittennit.7648:

Grimwolf.7163:

Doomdesire.9365:

They just need to fix 50% mobility in stealth, because it’s currently NOT working out of combat.

It’s not working in combat either. People need to stop perpetuating that myth everywhere.
The in-combat max-speed is not equal to the out of combat max speed; the max speed is capped as a 33% multiplier, period. In or out of combat.

Yes it is working. You run slower while in combat, but if u have the trait + u are in stealth u will be as fast as a out of combat with swiftness… or close to.

That can be, but you MUST be in stealth to use it. That mean that every build, who dont use stealth, like mobility builds, have an useless skill.
Or in other words: The whole thief and nearly all skills are build around stealth and that is the problem, its make him very unflexible, slowly and predictable = weak.

Would they remove the stealth requirement, were this skill much more useful.
But i dont think this were enough to make the thief generally equivalent to the other classes, in buildflexibility and something that give the thief a characteristic to the class.

Welcome into the club ismael

Furajir.3815:

Game isn’t balanced around 1v1’s.

If you’ve got an issue, heres a tissue.

Sorry.

Then it’s no wonder, that the thief is the worst class in this game.

Endaz.9472:

the thief class is amazing in pve.
NO

you can get high dps
ele, guardians and warriors dps are better (+ they hit up to 3 enemies)

mobility
Warrior has a higher mobility

sustain utility etc
if you mean the max 20% usefull utilities, then yes

+ you can stealth almost 20 sec.
For what do we need stealth? In 99% of PvE its useless.

what more do you want?

A useful steal mechanic, which give the thief his name, and enought survivability to overlife 1 hit from a champion, without to fall under the dmg of all other classes

as to answer to your question regarding a build i used with great success a cond dmg build. basicly you apply bleeds then wait for the mobs to die. you can aggro as many as you want cuz they won`t touch you.
Good for leveling but on lvl 80 is every directdmg build better.

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

My theory? The devs are sitting around a communal bonfire madly clicking on karma jugs!

What’s your theory?

MY theory: They must delete all warrior nerfs from the update before

Opynn.2936:

Ask yourself a question- Do you want to play a game in which you can just keep foe in stun till they are dead?
Because with mace+shield/gs or mace +shield/hammer you can do it easily (esspecialy with hammer).
I fought some new necromancer in spvp. I just stun locked him till he was dead. I was happy about that. Then i thought what that poor guy was thinking. He just sat there in front of his monitor and watch me do my chain cc. He had no stun breaker or its was on cd. And what can he do with stun breaker but no stabilty agianst that amount of cc. Nothing. He could log out and be done with the game.
[…]

Finally someone who understand it

On the other hand we have classes who can just spam evade, and are so elusive we need somthing to keep them in place.

I’m sure you talk about the thief and you have right, but they have no deffskills and so they have no alternative.

+1

I have over 1500 hours with my thiefs, but I will never use it as an argument, because its a meaningless variable.

Daecollo.9578:

Rending Strikes
100% chance to cause vulnerability on critical hits.
Grants 1 stack of vulnerability for 5 seconds.

They shall more give the thieves this trait.

Would they change the Stun to a Daze were the warrior much better balanced.

But Im sure this will never come. After all get the warrior NEVER any kind of nerf.
ANet dont like it, if their favourite class is not the strongest class in this game.

Its the first time that I hear something about that.

Give it already a leaks about the next update?

I use it all the time.

The best thief weapon for grpdmg and mobility

Castaliea.3156:

ANet… I hate what they’ve become.

Oh wait.. it seems everyone else hates that too… 0/2 kitten , I suck at this game.

Nice try!

Meta Builds

Direwind.8409:

its totally insane how a class with stealth can just pop it and even when hit directly remain in stealth, classes like thief just stealth spam using cloak and dagger and reset a fight at will, it takes no great feat of skill to just spam stealth nonstop stabing a player who has no clue where you are.

How should thiefs then fight and overlife a fight?
And I know where thiefs are, also if they are stealthed.
Stealth belongs to one of the weakest mechanics in this game (after steal), because its very easy to counter and the next action from the thief is in 99% predictable, a backstab in the back.

Direwind.8409:

yes I have an 80 thief.

After this logic:

I have 2 lvl 80 thiefs + 1 with “lvl 357” , so I have more experience and my sentences have more true inside than yours.

Orpheal.8263:

Another crybaby QQ stealth thread …
this gets old this dead horse… seriously

Thiefs need no nerfs, they need some specific buffs in various points in regard of their overall gameplay that forces players currently to play thiefs only with like 1 to 3 builds maybe to play this class effectively enough to win with them something at all

Thiefs need a serious redesign that improves ther overall steal and venom gameplay and completely their versatility that totally LACKS by allowing thiefs to steal more oftenly than only once every like 30 seconds or so and turning silly obsolete utility skills like venoms into the thiefs main mechanic for F2 to allow them to use every now and then via that venom skills that will change the effects for their whole weapon skills corresponding to which kind of venom you are using for the moment to improve the versatility of the thief class massively, so that they don’t have to rely themself so extremely much on stealth permanently to survive!.

Thiefs underwater gameplay sucks totally, it needs improvement by changing half of the thiefs skilsl by making them also usable under water or by changing the effects of specific thief skills, so that their effects work similar.

Think on the Ele’s Tornado, that changes under water to Maelstrom. The same way should get changed thief skills, some of their skills should change under water instead of simply becoming not usable there.

The durations of stealths have to get increased significantly, so that you can really play out the thiefs role as an infiltrator finally being unseen laying alot of traps and trying to gather enemy information and stealing alot of things to use all this against the enemy being the kind of silent deathly “guerilla warrior” type of class on battle fields, that thiefs should be alot more like together with their great arsenal of various deathly venoms that should allow them to handle enemies in a lot of various ways and make them more versatile in their usage of their chosen weapons and builds, that there will be more than just only full berserk or full condition thief!!

The counter balance for increasign massively the steath durations and removing the ridiculous revealed debuff would be by implemented “Detection Skills/Traits” for specific fitting classes like Rangers, Guardians and Engineers as also Thiefs self, because as masters of stealth, they should know best how to find enemies that are of their same profession by changing stealth into something visually to them, that looks more like moving into some kind of “shadow realm” between that they can cloak in and cloak out and follow that way enemies.!

In example:
If an enemy thief stealths in front of you and you stealth then also too with your thief, then you can see again the enemy thief, because both of you are then in the same “shadow realm” kind of parallell reality.

This is then also helpful again for any allied player in a group, because a group member can see where your allied thief is moving around and guess what that means ?
Right, for your party members it becomes this way easier to predict where the hidden enemy is to use either AoE skills at the place where your hidden thief ally is or use detection skills as for example as a ranger by letting your pet sniff around the near where your thief ally moves around at the moment in stealth to follow the hidden enemy.

Something that would improve also group play and group communication between group players in GW2, if the game would get improved that way…

The thief mechanics aren’t using the full potential that lies in the class to become something really awesome and fun to play. Currently the class feels like only giving 50% of what the class could potentiall do all and how versatile that class could be.
Epsecially when you think what all for options and potential lies in this game, if GW2 would ever get improved by implementing something like Sub Classes with that players would be able to specialize their classes more.

Oh how much I’’d love to see the day coming where i’d be able to specialize my Thief either into a Rogue, an Infiltrator or into a Saboteur to improve the various kinds of different gameplay mechanics that the classes offers and choose something to specialize into to make my character become more unique and feel finally some kind of CHARACTER PROGRESSION in this game that improves my characters options of weapon skills, adds more traits and all such things, which is GW2 absolutely lacking in the game currently totally sadly …

One can dream ..one can dream …sigh

THIS have my full support

Rezzet.3614:

simple

1.Stealthed players take double damage

2.stealthed players lose stealth upon attacking (at least when they hit a “Blocking” or “Invulnerable” or “Evade” player.

3.become unable to instantly restealth afterwards.

4. get focused as target once they lose stealth

5.20-30% movement speed Decrease while stealthed

OKAY and where is the balance now?

Run away or train, train, train

Burnfall.9573:

Black Teagan.9215:

Black Cat.1024:

Thiefs in general are OP, didn’t you know?
They’re practically godmode.

GW2 is OP

I know you’re being Sarcastic, but honestly.. Arena>net should really put Thief Class under heavy Re-evaluation.

They should more Overhaul the complete thief.

Not, because he is “OP”, because he is to weak in every part of this game. BS is the only useful skill that make enough dmg (on one target), without to trail behind the other classes.

Black Cat.1024:

Thiefs in general are OP, didn’t you know?
They’re practically godmode.

GW2 is OP

Mitsubishi Eclipsed.6732:

Prolly the worst ‘Elite’ in the game. They need to rework it. Till then Rage/Banner will be used.

Haha sure not, Rampage is one of the best single control elite in this game especially on warriors. BasiliskVenom is much bader.

And banner are already the strongest support skill in this game

Spirit ranger and hard?

My S/P Thief kill them, before the breakfast.

Mystogan.4157:

When ever I down a warrior and he gets back up again. I do not get any points in sPvP and in WvW it makes me barely even want to fight one because i get cheated out of points

This called “Vengeance” and is the 3. Downedskill. IF they use it just wait 15 secs and/or go away and dont die. This skill is in the most parts useless, because they cant do nothing except conflict dmg or help his allies while its active.

Calae.1738:

A pistol on the offhand is superior to a dagger in every way possible. If you need to AoE just use a Shortbow.

This has nothing to do with the title

DanH.5879:

Gwalchgwn.1659:

This topic is meant for just silly comments people say about thieves without really knowing them

thief is OP

Thats right, thiefs are Ordinary Preposterously

“Backstab noob” if you use S/x

Bogy.2953:

Hunter.4783:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lY5VpExRvPE

Here you go, this is why the build is OP, it can wreck people in 1v2 and 1v1 settings. He casually made it home even when 4 people got to him. Im sorry but this is plain OP.

The biggest offenders are signet of healing and poultry soup.

This needs a nerf

wow you have downs

the war has at least 20 in defense as well as 3 defense utilities and most likely def runes/food

he is fighting 2 up levels who for all we know are lvl 2 with white equipment a guard who cant even keep up to dmng him he just happens to be there doing nothing lol and a condi necro that the war has speced against

all this proves is that those 4 people are newbs

the fact that you think this is evidence that war is op just shows you don’t know any of the game mechanics in wvw or how gw2 combat works at all

Or the warrior is to strong.

dank.3680:

Hunter.4783:

Don’t forget adrenal health ticking at 150hp/sec at full adrenaline. And we all know adrenaline comes easy at lvl 80 and 30 points in discipline.

Adrenal healing ticks every 3seconds not one second. And he is continuously using his burst skills for the hammer stun, so is spending very little time with full Adrenaline.

Yes, adrenal health every three secs, but then for 382,5 points or more. This are 127,5+ Points per sec.

So adrenal healing (128) + the signet (467 Points) heals you for 595+ Points every sec.

This based all on only 150 Healing Power.

The signet has a to low cd for this high healrate.
A heal of 7840 with 0 Points in HP within 20 sec, make it to the strongest healskill in this game.

There is no real different between +33% and + 50%

And +speed were to strong, and had the same problem like MF.

+Speed only help yourself, and destroy exactly like MF the thoughts of teamplay.

Hitman.5829:

As a warrior you have only 2 options to defend against blindness spamming.

1.- Run whenever you are blinded and receive damage while kiting.
2.- Equip shake it off, signet of stamina, barzerker stance and remove 1 or 6 conditions and be fine for 1 second, but then receive another 6 conditions and wait for 60 seconds for your skills to cooldown for another chance to remove conditions.

Or you use range weapons or use the full weaponrange and stay outside of the field hile you hitting the thief.

Hitman.5829:

• The warrior is the only class with ONE combo field. All the other classes have up to 6 combo fields.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Combo

And where is the problem?

• The warrior is the worst condition removal class. You will get owned by conditions if you are a DPS or a tank build.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition

1. Every class/build has a counter.
2. Why do you think the warrior has so much life!?

marnick.4305:

Dear a.net

Nerf Rock, Paper is fine.

Kind regards

Scissors.