Guild Wars 2

The thief is UP in nearly every point, bcause it is a very broken and bad designed class, which never get a(n useful) buff, only nerfs.

This is so, because the thief is created around two overpowered and bad designed mechanic like stealth and the combination of ini + the evade effects on the weaponskills. (Ini is fine)
But if you know how to counter this two things, and believe me this is not difficult, then you counter the whole class, especially because nearly every skill or trait which they have is weak, useless or harm the thief.
You should go into PvE. This is the best part of this game, where you can see how UP and dead they are.

MightyMicah.7451:

You guys are sad. Thief is fine and kicks butt if you know how to use it.

You mean as long as we can spam stealth or the third weaponskills?

Why do you want nerf the necro?

locoman.1974:

Here’s mine, still not 80 but that’s how I plan him to look like..

Actually I made him after I saw how this particular outfit looked like on Charr..

This is no thief, it’s a crazy butcher

I believe you AV could be the reason for that.

Just put GW2 into the exceptions and run gw2 as admin

I like this idea and I would love it, if they add this.

Withdraw: “Heal and do a ‘barrel roll’ in your moving direction.”

Its a bugfix no change.

Why not change the stealth and revealed time?

(make both longer)

babazhook.6805:

>>It would not be difficult to give the ele and engi a second weapon set and then lock weapon swap while in combat. This alone would even the field and not nerf the majority of players.

I do not understand the point of this.

You can carry another set with you. It not all that cumbersome.I do it on me ele. My Thief with do it when he needs his shortbow. It takes a few seconds.

And why should they use then weaponswap signets, if they can’t switch their weapons in combat?

Kukchi.6173:

A thief can catch up to a warrior no problem.
Thieves are king of landspeed.

Only over short distances.
The bigger the distance, the better/faster is the warrior.

Best: Charrs

Worst: Currently design of stealth

The people don’t hate thieves, they hate stealth and the evadeeffect on some weaponskills.

Soul/Accbound should keep in the game, but they bound definitely to many items to the acc or character and this impeded the most part of trading.

Carpboy.7145:

Black Teagan.9215:

Ghostwolf.9863:

Legendary weapons are account bound just like ascended accessories.

You can only wield 1 incinerator, but by using the wardrobe feature you are able to transmutate some other daggar into incinerator and thereby you are able to dual wield them.

I’m not sure about that.
I saw many people, who wield two incinerator at the same time and this long before the wardrobe feature.

But now its easier.

PS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx3qhzlSGYU

The reason for that is those people crafted 2 legendaries

That wasn’t the point.
I answer him because: “You can only wield 1 incinerator”.

Sry I don’t mark it

Ghostwolf.9863:

Legendary weapons are account bound just like ascended accessories.

You can only wield 1 incinerator, but by using the wardrobe feature you are able to transmutate some other daggar into incinerator and thereby you are able to dual wield them.

I’m not sure about that.
I saw many people, who wield two incinerator at the same time and this long before the wardrobe feature.

But now its easier.

PS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx3qhzlSGYU

a t s e.9614:

5000 hotjoin games don’t count.I checked his profile and he only has 40 games played. Get out of hot join and learn to play properly , then you can talk about balance.

Why doesn’t count it?

I cant see any different between hotjoin and spvp, only that spvp needs longer to join, have a little better rewardand is part of the ranking.

The builds, the playstyle, the 5vs5 fights, the zerging are the same like in hotjoin.

If you ask me, I would take out 25-50% dmg from the “Life between 100-50%” part and increase the dmg, if your enemy is under 25%, to compensate it.

This don’t change the function of HS, but it makes these HS-spam victories much harder and HS to a better finisher.

5000 round in spvp, only 4 lvl 80 chars and you think, you have enough experience to evaluate the (class-) balance.

How sad!

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Black Teagan.9215:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Black Teagan.9215:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Corrupt boon takes entire stacks. Bountiful Theft only grabs 2 stacks. So, if you steal, you’ll end up with only 2 stacks of might. Also, you are being deliberately misleading by giving a thief the maximum possible benefits for steal, while also not giving the maximum possible benefits for corrupt boon.

1 stack of 2 boons;

Your enemy have 8 stacks of might and protection of 25(?) secs —> BT on your enemy --> Your enemy lost high 8 stacks of might and protection and you get 1 stack of might + protection, both for 5 secs.

Prove the wiki wrong?

Why I should? The wiki underpinned my post, but not yours.

Reading comprehension skills are a must. The wiki says that bountiful theft works exactly as I described.

You wrote BT steal two stacks and this is wrong. It steals 2 boons and give max 1 stack of every stolen boon to you, also if your enemy have 15 stacks of might, and no other boon, it will give you not more than 1 stack of might.

That is the different between your and my post

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Black Teagan.9215:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Corrupt boon takes entire stacks. Bountiful Theft only grabs 2 stacks. So, if you steal, you’ll end up with only 2 stacks of might. Also, you are being deliberately misleading by giving a thief the maximum possible benefits for steal, while also not giving the maximum possible benefits for corrupt boon.

1 stack of 2 boons;

Your enemy have 8 stacks of might and protection of 25(?) secs —> BT on your enemy --> Your enemy lost high 8 stacks of might and protection and you get 1 stack of might + protection, both for 5 secs.

Prove the wiki wrong?

Why I should? The wiki underpinned my post, but not yours.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Corrupt boon takes entire stacks. Bountiful Theft only grabs 2 stacks. So, if you steal, you’ll end up with only 2 stacks of might. Also, you are being deliberately misleading by giving a thief the maximum possible benefits for steal, while also not giving the maximum possible benefits for corrupt boon.

1 stack of 2 boons;

Your enemy have 8 stacks of might and protection of 25(?) secs —> BT on your enemy --> Your enemy lost high 8 stacks of might and protection and you get 1 stack of might + protection, both for 5 secs.

Not Might + Might or Reg + Reg

@DaliIndica
Do you mean me?

azerte.4365:

Where are Sanduskel and Burnfall when you need them? ;(

Nobody need them. Never!!

Lordrosicky.5813:

The thing with thief is there is literally no counter play.

My suggestions on thief:
1, Implement a initiative management system like in every other game ever. This means that going low on initiative reduces the speed on initiative regen. This increases the skill cap and dissuades spamming. It also adds the illusion of cooldowns. I would say under half initiative and it regens at 0.75 a second.

2, In addition to above, I would significantly nerf shortbow #5. The mobility was not rebalanced after the initiative regen buff. This skill should be increased to 8-9 initative so that it is less spammable and more used as a “get out of jail” teleport. This way a thief will have to use skill to decide “Do I move around the map super quick and then have less dps when I get there?” or “Do I go a little slower and have more dps?”

3, I would nerf feline grace by half.

4, Withdraw should have a 1 second cast time before the evade begins. This would promote counter play so that you can actually interrupt their heal. I think as designers, when anet see a heal being used to get around the map quicker then they really have issues. An alternative would be to increase the cooldown to 25 seconds

With these changes, I have no doubt thief would still be really really really good. Maybe still the best class in the game, just because of its inherent strengths.

1, : And how will you compensate this?
Thieves Initative recharge already so slow, that over the same long lapse of time, every other class do circa double so many attacks than thieves can do + Thieves have no access to another weaponset for 4 another immediate useable skills, once their pool is empty.

2, : The initiative regain were buffed, because it was to slowly to fight longer fights and IA is a weaponskill, one who shall use in a fight. Furthermore the thief shall be a fast class, more the fastest and IA is really no cheap skill, even not now.

3, : Please, explain me why Feline Grace is a problem.
It’s currently the only Traits that is useful for Non-Stealth-Acrobatic thieves.

4, : Why a delay of 1 sec?
An evade isn’t so strong, how stealth and the addictional effect of Withdraw in the most cases redundant, also is the heal very low, especially for a class with no deffense skills or damagereduction boons and in compare to every other class.

PS: Why do you, and all the others too, try to treat the symptoms, instead to cure the real disease?

Not the thief, but the Meta breaks itself.

It’s nothing easier to counter as a build that you already known and players, who can’t control it.

Kicast.1459:

Black Teagan.9215:

@Lordrosicky.5813

At first I would read your whole text, but as I read this:

Lordrosicky.5813:

So you have a class which:
1, Has no cooldowns which lowers the skill required – its just spam
2, Breaks the only game mode anet have given the players
3, With all this, is still the best profession at combat
4, Probably also the best class at stopping stomps

I stopped.

This is the part, which show me, show us all, that you have no clue about the thief class and write these things only for your own personal benefit.

No arguments, false pretences and stupid comparisons.

Thief spotted

Sry, that a Thief player know more about this class, than crying Non-Thieves.

@Lordrosicky.5813

At first I would read your whole text, but as I read this:

Lordrosicky.5813:

So you have a class which:
1, Has no cooldowns which lowers the skill required – its just spam
2, Breaks the only game mode anet have given the players
3, With all this, is still the best profession at combat
4, Probably also the best class at stopping stomps

I stopped.

This is the part, which show me, show us all, that you have no clue about the thief class and write these things only for your own personal benefit.

No arguments, false pretences and stupid comparisons.

It is even possible, that thiefs can get another nerf?

Maybe I’m not out, but I would take a huge break from this game, if they nerf Acrobatic or Steal again.

They are already weak and if they nerf them, then were this the evidence that ANet only hear on little whiners and have no clue of this class and I do not like to play a game, where devs cant do his job.

And the next fool -.-

SA is no problem, it is stealth.
It’s a problem, because the whole class and their survibality is build around this bad designed stealth mechanic and this make them too weak for builds without stealth or against players who can easily counter this.

Corax.7381:

Hey guys, I need a sense of humor and/or a Sarcasm Detector for my buddy, Black Teagan. The poor guy thinks someone seriously claimed Rangers were OP!

There’s way too much logic for him to be sarcastic, though.

To bad, that you dont understand my post. It’s not important, if s/he was sarcastic or not, try to read between the lines.

Don’t worries and laugh.
People will always find a way and excuses to cry about thieves and hide their own weakness.

Highest DPS against 1 or multiple enemies?
Over a short or long time window?

This are important question?

D-DPS:
One enemy and short period = DD Thieves
Multiple enemies and long period = GS/AA Warriors

C-DPS:
One enemy and short period = Necros
Multiple enemies and long period = Engis

Silent Shino.7239:

Aggrostemma.1703:

warriors get slightly nerfed every patch

lol wut

Ignore him, they always confound warriors with other classes.

Lace.9472:

Black Teagan.9215:

Base the whole thread on one picture and that a group downed another group?

Not just downed but annihilated. On top of that, we’ve deduced from the image that there’s a lot of arrows falling on the bodies… coincidence? or OP long bow.. you decide.

I saw the arrows, but is there any clue, that this arrows came from Rangers?
They can can also comes by a lot of arrow carts.

This picture gives no answers about the number of players, or their classes, in both teams.
Maybe they get down by 1 ranger and 50 LB Warriors with Arcing Arrow or 5 Rangers and 100 stealthed thieves or by 4 players + a lot of Npcs with Barrage.
I can’t say it. You?

PS: Also if all these people are downed by rangers is this no argument for the "OP"ness of rangers, only for mass aoe spikes.
Every group of people – not important which class – can be deadly for a group, if everyone use aoes.
Ele, Engis, Warrior, Guardians, Mesmer, Necros, Ranger or Thieves, there is no different.

MatyrGustav.6210:

Duke Nukem.6783:

i was hoping the patch would nerf all the things about the theif that were brokenly overpowered, sadly this was not the case.

they still can engage and escape without consequence with stealth while 3 to 6 people chase after them looking like fools because they can do nothing to stop them

they still do overwhelming damage to a single target thats broken by comparison to anyone else

they still chase down a target so easily with their constant dagger leaps and high no cooldowns

im aware that this is where theifs usually go to ask eachother how to be more OP so yea bring on the backlash…and dont say that ranger counters stealth…..it doesnt

I play thief in WvW, and Spvp and its really hard for me to play other classes because thief is OP, and can escape without trying.

Never die, if your going to lose, escape and torment them till a teammate comes then team up and kill them. Its the only class when you can truly escape without worry.

Thieves are the only class that can go full glass cannon, and still have the best defense (Invisibility)

100% guaranteed preemptive strike. So this can be deadly with a Glass Cannon build.

Every class has a weakness, and every class has to face and feel their weakness in battle. The thief doesn’t have to since they can invis and escape.

From my experiences playing thief, I can say that it is OP. In this game you can avoid most attacks but how can you avoid an attack when the attacker is invisible and you dont know hes coming even in an engaged fight?

I have this saying " If you cant do anything to avoid something, then its broken" especially if that something can take away most of your health.

So I dunno what need to be done to balance things, maybe increase the re-invise cooldown timer again?

Of course thieves arent going to agree. I didnt till I started playing other classes.

To the people saying escaping isnt over powered. It is when your mistakes have no consequences, and you can re challenge the opponent until he makes a mistake and kill him.

Thief + Mistake = Escape
Other classes + Mistake = Die

It’s always funny, if people write a text, but don’t understand itself.
Will people ever understand, that the thief isn’t OP, but stealth.

Are thieves without stealth OP?
Are thieves, if a player know how to counter stealth and kill them with one hit, because their survivability is non-exist, OP?

Thieves are the worst class in this game(, or at least one of the worst) and without this broken, too strong and bad designed mechanic [stealth], they were a dead class and noone would play them.

Stealth is currently too strong but thieves are nothing without it, and this are the real problems, nothing else!

PS: Every warrior, mesmer, or engi can play a fullberserker build and have a better survivability, than thieves with stealth.

Base the whole thread on one picture and that a group downed another group?

Thieves have no OP skills or traits.

As long as Anet does not split the game modes, it’s not important, if balance is objective or subjective, we will never get them!

They should finally fix that and decide, if stealth come before or after the dmg.
BP + HS -> Dmg than stealth
BP + CB -> Stealth than damage.

This anomaly exist since the beta and its very annoying. -.-

Atherakhia.4086:

Black Teagan.9215:

1.Warrior
2.Engi
3.Thief
4.Ele
5.Ranger
6.Mesmer
7.Guardian
8.Necro

Why the thief is under warrior and engi?
Thieves are very fast on short distance, but their skills have higher CD’s or are too expensive for far distance.
For long distance have engis and warriors better skills/traits, many movementskills, which make them faster as thieves, incl. their CC-skills.

I was under the impression he was asking which classes could escape the best. Not necessarily have the fastest ground speed? Thus why Thieves are #1.

That’s exactly what I wrote.

I see you have never fighted against Warriors or Engineers, which builds are build around mobility.

How can a thief escape, if these two classes move much faster with their skills and traits as the thief regain initiative for his movementskills like IA?

I know that thieves can port 4000 units in few secs, but these range need many ressources and skills with high CD’s, warriors and engis skills aren’t so strong but reload faster and in the end they are faster and over long disctance they run every other class away.

But also the deffense is important. Speed is usless, if you cant go away from the battlefield and get one CCskill after another or heavy conditionspikes, thieves have big disadvantages against these two cases.

1.Warrior
2.Engi
3.Thief
4.Ele
5.Ranger
6.Mesmer
7.Guardian
8.Necro

Why the thief is under warrior and engi?
Thieves are very fast on short distance, but their skills have higher CD’s or are too expensive for far distance.
For long distance have engis and warriors better skills/traits, many movementskills, which make them faster as thieves, incl. their CC-skills.

Give thieves enought survivability (HP + skills/traits) and the dodge or stealth effects on the weapons weren’t necessary, but this is only one of many, many design mistakes, which ANet does.

(One the other hand, don’t think that we will have a good class balance as long as ANet doesn’t split all gamemodes and need months for only one balancepatch. More and smaller classupdates are much better and easier to control than bigger and few updates.)

Initiative works good and is no problem for the balance.
—Up to 5 times the same skill in a row, give thieves a little advantages at the start of a match, but against classes, which can use up to 8 skills in a row, which have stronger, and faster reloading skills, than the thief get his initiative, make them much weaker in longer fights.

Stealth: The biggest problem for the thieves- and the generally classbalance.
— Longer stealth- and revealedtime is necessary, to giving this mechanic a better balance and stop the abuse of spamming it.

The dogdes on the weaponskills have a similiar problem, they are currently necessary to survive and thieves would die within secounds without it, but spamming one evade after another make them partly too strong and very annoying.

Steal is complete useless, but also with BT it’s very weak. Two boons; – 5 secs; – 240 range; 1 time every ~30secs, dont help you or your team. The only reasons, why thieves use steal are the shadowsteps and BT because the combination of Vigor + SoH.

—They should remove the vigorbuff, put them into the acrobatic line and buff BT: Better range, longer buffduration, and steal one more boon (or better add the last point this to the classmechanic )

Acrobatic: Maybe the worst traitline in the game, or at least thieves worst traitline.
3 of 13 traits are stealth traits, only two, which support acrobatic-builds and the rest is weaker than every T1 SA trait (e.g. PR, our only condition remove in this tl) or complete useless, how HtC.
—The whole traitline need an overhaul, but dont need any stealth skills.
We have SA for stealthskills.

Venoms: Extremly weak, too long CD and not even in a condition build very useful.
— 1. Decouple them from Venomous Aura and buff/rework the venoms or remove them complete and replace them.
— 2. Put VA into another traitline: DA or Trickery, and combine Potent Poisons with Quick Venoms.

Traps: Who use them regular? Pls give me a serious answer.

Underwater: Well, I don’t think I must writing something about that, or!?

General: Switch the positions of Improvisation(DA) and Ricochet (Trickery)

@OP

This is right, but it’s also a fact that the classbalance is out of control.

Oh god!! -_-
When will you learn, that thieves aren’t the problem?

They are one of the worst classes in this game and their “OPness” comes only from the very bad designed stealth mechanic.

And not because initiative, mobility, their burst or anything else.

Darek.1836:

I always laugh when people like this who don’t know what theyre talking about think they do know.

You could give us a few examples, then can we talk about it, otherwise are this hollow words.

“How is the thief in PvP”

Without the variable of a player: Very strong with stealth, but very weak without stealth.

With stealth + the traits of SA, thieves have a good “deffense” against dmg and the trait give you strong heals and condiremove, but without stealth your life will be very hard, because you must use then the acrobatic traitline and these traits (without feline grace) are 3 times weaker or more.

That the pvp – and every other game mode – are so unblanced, comes from the non-exist splitting between the 3 game modes and that they release the balance updates every few months and not 1 or 2 per weeks.

Definitions of “OP”:

1. Every player, who is better than the original poster.
2. Every skill/trait, which is better than the skills of the original poster’s class.
3. Every skill/trait/class, who/which is too strong in relation to other classes.

Please ignore number three, the posts, which based on this point are very rare, so rare that you can not believe it, that they exist

Its nothing special, I got this in nearly every fight, which I do with my warrior

CCs are not too strong. A chain of CC can it be, but as long as it’s not combinated with high damage its fine

Yes I look on you Engis

Protoavis.9107:

People don’t hate thieves or think thieves are over powered, they realise it’s the stealth mechanic when it can be applied near indefinitely resulting in a situation where only 1 player is capable of playing. it’s an unbalanced and unfair position. Most people wouldn’t care if the stealth mechanic had a 10 second cool down where th player can’t re-enter stealth once leaving it for 10 seconds but when you have a situation where a class can hit for half a players hp pool, stealth near instantly then do the say half hp pool hit again without giving the other player any real way to deal with it in a 1 vs 1 situation unless you’re an extreme bunker build it essentially becomes an exercise in griefing rather than a balanced situation.

Another one, who see the real issue.
I wish it would give more people like you.

Stealth is currently a very big problem for this game and thieves, also that the whole class is build around stealth and SA don’t make it better.