Guild Wars 2

Consider it this way. If there were a profession weapon skill that one-shot downed players, everyone would consider that to be pretty OP. When there’s a profession weapon skill that one-shot downs self, that’s OP too.

wish.1027:

Chaba.5410:

Because it’s easy to pick out the 10×10 pixel boon icon on those 3-5 people with retaliation up in the middle of a 20-man zerg before you press the attack button only once. Practically speaking, of course.

Well you can figure it out fast enough when you see the numbers pop right? That fixes it and makes it easy to notice.

I seem to be having trouble communicating the idea that it’s a one-shot deal with certain skills. You see the numbers pop and you’re dead. There is no “oh I better stop hitting this button” option. Nor is there an “oh kitten I need to dodge/block” option. The only choice you have with those skills is to not use them in the first place, which is opposite of design intent.

Because it’s easy to pick out the 10×10 pixel boon icon on those 3-5 people with retaliation up in the middle of a 20-man zerg before you press the attack button only once. Practically speaking, of course.

wish.1027:

Chaba.5410:

Retaliation is powerful against rapid-firing pew pew attacks, somewhat useless against the deadly bursty attacks. Guardians, does that sound balanced?

Its fine, it makes it good against some stuff, and bad against some stuff, thereby giving the rock paper scissors balance.

And the question would be, was that what Anet had in mind when designing Retaliation?

graverr.6473:

It looks to me instead that engineers an rangers and other classes that have 600 different ticks per skill/second in a very short time are broken an you should ask anet to fix them instead not ask to nerf a perfectly working boon.

This is my point (and the point of the OP). The problem is with the way retaliation procs on certain rapid-fire weak damage skills in certain professions compared to bursty high damage skills. The OP was asking for the way retaliation procs to be changed rather than just the 33% reduction.

Retaliation is powerful against rapid-firing pew pew attacks, somewhat useless against the deadly bursty attacks. Guardians, does that sound balanced?

The in-game description for Retaliation is really, really misleading.

“Reflect incoming damage back to its source”

Implies that there’s a 1-to-1 relationship between the amount of damage put out and returned.

If you spec glass cannon, especially in wvw, yea, you should be dead. If you have a bunker build and down yourself from only 4k of damage on 3 people… Ouch.

Cosmic.6047:

I do know the mechanics behind. My engineer is using a flamethrower and I love it.

I love it too! I hardly ever use it in WvW though.

Benjamin.7893:

Bananasmile.4126:

If you burst Guardians with 3 attack totaling to 8-10k, you will only receive 1,000 damage maximum.

And that is exactly where you are wrong. A thief stealing, backstabbing and heartseakering (made up vocabulary ftw) you for 10K dmg will take 3×300ish retal dmg.

A condition engineer using flametrower will do 10×100ish dmg for 1K total dmg (+ burning woohoo) whereas he will take 10×300ish dmg from retal.

These numbers are just out of the top of my head and may be wrong, but you get the gist.

Honestly if WvW’rs think that this is diversity and balance then… well I’m lost for words really.

The thief even gets the chance to correct the mistake if noticing retaliation boon after the steal. The flamethrower engineer with might stacked does not. One button press 10x hit auto-attack boom dead.

This discussion will too easily devolve into QQ over the retaliation nerf and distract from the core problem, which is how it processes on certain skills.

It should be clear that no one should argue here for retaliation be weakened so that it returns a piddling amount of damage. Yet everyone should recognize that retaliation processing has some balance issues with certain types of damage source skills. Whether the 33% reduction is a good or poor solution to balance is debatable.

Cosmic.6047:

Chaba.5410:

" the auto-attack of Flamethrower have 10 attack in 2 seconds…I did 4000 damage in 4 seconds to 3 people and they did 20k damage of retaliation to me…this is normal?"

The Flamethrower has large cone area. So you doing damage not to one but multiple targets. So if all you targets have retaliation that’s what you get. If you want to dish out big you need to be ready the receive big as well.

4k of damage to 3 people (the engineer had a bit of might stacked to get that amount of damage) and 20k returned is more than 100% of the damage dished out. Take the time to understand how retaliation processes for multi-hit channeling skills compared to other big damage AoE skills.

If I really wanted to be facetious I would write something along the lines of how, if you see an engineer with a flamethrower and might stacked about to dish out big, you should throw your boon strippers at that player rather than QQing about the damage output.

Haldunius,

I take no issue with agreeing to disagree with you.

" the auto-attack of Flamethrower have 10 attack in 2 seconds…I did 4000 damage in 4 seconds to 3 people and they did 20k damage of retaliation to me…this is normal?"

Oh look, yet another thread on this subject over in the engineer forum!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Flamethrower-and-Retaliation

Haldunius.7864:

Remove the nerf – bring back diversity, options and skill. If you’re answer is making something effect everything equally, you’re doing it wrong.

Please let this game last at least a year before you destroy its diversity.

Respectfully going to disagree. The way to destroy diversity is to provide incentives to not use particular skills because they suffer from one-shot self-kill due to someone else’s boon.

I invite people to try rolling a class in WvWvW that has a multi-hit channeling skill, like the engineer Flamethrower before telling the rest of us to l2p. You hit 1 once and you’re dead. It’s like that. No take backsies. The only way to avoid is to not use that skill, which was never the design intent.

I’m sure they do test… just not using Scope. Never really seen any builds with it.

You know what this looks like? It looks like Elixir S change.

I don’t think it is meant to be a bonus to critical chance.

As much as it hurts, I would suggest not using points in the precision trait line to bump up critical. The reason is because the bug could possibly be caused by a bad interaction between traits. For example, other NERF members have found weird behavior with rifle weapon skills when using Rifled Barrels versus when not. There is the minor trait Target the Weak which is also supposed to bump up the critical chance, making tests against the golems in the mists a bit difficult to pull off when the golem goes under 50% health.

Andy.9137:

To the [PiNK] ranger with major rank. You had to escape from me in the water so I wouldn’t kill you in that 1v2 (you and that guardian), which then turned into a 1v8+… chased me all the way from north of bay to vale, where I died.

If it took 8 people to take you down, they certainly deserve your loot bag!

I too find Protection Injection much more useful than Self-Regulating Defenses these days. Switched maybe a month and a half ago…

Certain members of Fort Aspenwood were just doing what the game was designed for when killing off players RP’ing yaks in a PvP zone. I don’t understand all the QQ about that event. I fully expect to be killed in a PvP zone if you catch me costume brawling with a guildmate while waiting for a supply camp zerg.

I bet the limit has something to do with conditions. More conditions on more people = more lag.

NickDollahZ.5348:

Chaba.5410:

Cleansing Burst tooltip always said it cures all conditions.

And Scopes tooltip says it gives 10% crit chance when you stand still.

It has always removed 2 condition from the 1800+ hrs I have played on my Engineer.

Yea… That’s why I wrote tooltip without specifically saying the actual effect. No need to be sarcastic. Next time I will be more explicit and write something like “This is not to say that the actual effect removed all conditions, only to point out that the tooltip is confusing.”

Cleansing Burst tooltip always said it cures all conditions.

Yea, the patch seems a weird mix of nerfs and buffs, like the healing turret was nerfed to be buffed (or buffed to be nerfed).

First post-patch GvG! Will be interesting!

This question leads me into another question. Do the explosion-related traits like Shrapnel and Forceful Explosions affect the explosion from Accelerant-Packed Turrets? I always assumed they did without ever confirming.

The nerf to confusion and retaliation in WvWvW actually opens up more grenades and flamethrower. Too many engineers were downing themselves.

What is the radius on the explosion of Accelerant-Packed Turrets?

Got asked this question last night. Good question! Anyone know?

I haven’t used Elixir S in awhile (or the related 25% health trait). I used to have problems with both where it seemed like it activated but then I was dead, like maybe it was confusion or some other condition that continued to be active and kill me even though I was supposedly invulnerable.

lindstroem.3601:

It just seems that you can use the first pulse if you hammering your keys fast enough.

What makes it tricky is that if you double-tap the key too early, the overcharge does not take effect, which is why I recommend spamming. Easier to spam than watch animations…

You really have to spam rather than double-tap to ensure you do not miss the overcharge before the initial placement pulse.

oOoooo now I understand why it is inconsistent. The healing turret pulses every 3 seconds. When you lay the turret, spam the button again to ensure that the overcharge activates on the first pulse during placement. If you miss it, there’s up to a 3 second delay before the overcharge fires. Apparently I was not double-tapping for the overcharge on initial pulse good enough. Spamming rather than double-tapping will work better.

Seras.5702:

They’re trying to make it more useful as it’s designed, rather than drop it, destroy it.

It has to work both ways because in a highly mobile fight, no one is going to hang around a turret just for healing. People are going to stretch design to their limit and exceed original specifications.

Oh, it seems like the overcharge is inconsistent. When I doubletap the turret to lay it then overcharge, it seems like sometimes it fires the water field right away and sometimes not.

I’m in-game now trying to get use to the new healing turret and when I can blast the water field. Mobility has been reduced because I have to hang around for the overcharge to activate. In WvW this is going to suck. The people I’m trying to heal in a moving fight will be long gone by the time it fires.

It is distinctly uncomfortable being forced into micro-managing something.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Fix-the-Supply-Crate-animation

Per suggestion, I’m posting this in the sPvP forum rather than the engineer forum.

Is it possible to fix the Supply Crate animation so that it stops tricking engineers and others into thinking the crate dropped when it hasn’t?

Possible solution: display a red circle or comic drop target at the beginning of the cast with the supply drop animation at the end.

The problem: Sooooo many times I see the crate animation fire… the supplies dropping, only to think I’m gonna be ok because the crate activated (or that I rescued a friend), and then it turns out that I apparently got interrupted during cast so the crate didn’t really drop. I’ve lost fights because the visual cue occurs and tricks me, especially in situations where I drop it slightly behind me and expect it to be there when I acid bomb a reverse to flank. Visual cues that describe a narrative are so incredibly important in such a medium as a video game. When one doesn’t make any logical sense, like supply magically disappearing after it falls from the sky, it throws the whole narrative off.

As can be seen from the responses to my original thread (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Anet-can-you-fix-the-Supply-Crate-animation/first#post1923416), everyone is confused by the animation, even the opponents. It is considered a bug by some. I consider it a usability issue.

Please to fix!

Mercenary Higgins.1807:

TC needs to man up and play WvWvW the way it should be.

Nothing wrong with PvP in a PvP zone, dolyak tonics included.

Put a giant red drop target down then or something to change the visual warning cue of impending stun. Something other than the visual of a package landing that then magically disappears.

capmasterflash.5690:

Also, there is some delusion (with an underhanded insult attached) that DB is pure like FA, in that, they don’t care about PPT. That’s also nonsense. T1 is all about PPT and DB’s renewed strength can be traced to its new imports.

Why don’t we let DB tell the rest of us what DB is like rather than some non-DB person tell DB what DB is like?

mekkanic.4759:

Uhhh..pretty sure I saw sprinkles of FA blue dots on our BL as well as a lot of TC green dots on our BL during late NA timeslot.

One thing I did see was….seas of red. Endless…seas.

We couldn’t cap any camps for ticks and our own BL was looking in need of help so my group switched over there. TC eventually took like the whole map. Hard to face 20+ TC on DBBL with a 4-man group. Any DB on your BL during that time knows what I’m talking about.

A little PvP in a PvP zone never hurt anyone, dolyaks included. I lost count of how many yaks I slapped today.

Sooooo many times I see the crate animation fire… the supplies dropping, only to think I’m gonna be ok because the crate activated, and then I apparently got interrupted during cast so the crate didn’t really drop. I’ve lost fights because the visual cue occurs and tricks me, especially in situations where I drop it slightly behind me and expect it to be there when I acid bomb a reverse. Can’t we have the crate animation fire later?

Thanks for your answer. It does show people who aren’t currently representing. I have a new theory though. Maybe the leaderboard doesn’t show members who have not logged in since leaderboard was created.

Swizzle.7982:

If the engineer class was simply removed tomorrow I don’t think anyone but the engineers would notice. It would have no impact on anything at all, and that’s a sad thing.

You hear that Anet? That’s because you need to give Engineers something unique in the game, like our own Combo field or Condition or CC, not just have Engineer do a few things from other classes.

Oh I like that! Drop a portal that only the opponent can go through in front of a zerg and they have no choice but to go through it… Muauauaua that’s ripe for all kinds of trolling! Portal to cliff!