Guild Wars 2

I agree totally to the idea that blocking,evading should un stealth the stealthed player .however Not miss(blind),or invulnerable.

Also there should be a compensation. Such as no revealed debuff on the player. Or AT least a smaller timer on the revealed. Maybe 1second revealed instead of 4.

I made that fun idea (without the negative effect) a long time ago but I don’t feel like necro posting it :/

It’s really the fact that its a amazing condition removal AND a great access to stability protection vigor and Aegis ALL in ONE thats ridiculous by itself. And even more so on LOW CD elites.

what needs to be done are 3 things
1) keep the rune viable for all class’s.
2) nerf the rune so class’s with short cd elites cant dominate with it.
3) keep the rune somewhat lore friendly (its Lyssa we talking about. The GODDESS of RNG!!!!!…and butterflies)

So making it so it will simply convert any condition on you in to a boon would be a perfect solution to balancing this rune.

It should remove the access to stability (can’t activate any elite I know of when you have fear) and really nullify the consistent access to boons.
Overall very strong when you get condition ganked. Not so much when the opposite is true. Takes the consistency away and makes it tactical.

The Rogue.1328:

Each deleted character’s name will be saved to your account for 24 hours.

but is there a limitation to the number of names that can be saved?

hay all. please read all of this before you answer my question. also.
i have come up with 8….amazing names. that i want to save until i can get the character slots/name contracts to put those names on.

however right now i only have 5 character slots. 4 of which are level 80.
the 5th is…well not very important.

what i intend to do is everyday at the same time i will delete that Character in that 1 slot to create another Character in that slot with 1 of the names i want. rinse and repeat and place all 8 names and delete them on that character slot.

my question is will that keep all 8 names i want reserved for 24 hours? allowing me time in which to get the character slots/name contracts
or will it only save 1 of the names? or any other result i don’t know about

There is no specific information on sigils changes yet. Although I think there will be no changes to this sigil. It will not be improved by the sigil functionality change….soooo why would they nerf it?

I think the only sigils being changed are the on crit sigils.

/sigh

To think that this is what the game has come to in terms of balance.
Nerfing zerker will not do anything to balance the game. Simply because dps is right were it should be while almost every other role or type of style is not as viable.
Not because they are week and dps is strong. Instead simply because the machanics are somewhat broken.

Berzerker is the meta because of how the mechanics of the game works. Thus nerfing berzerker will not solve the problem as that will only be balancing things around broken mechanics which I find stupid. It’s like repairing a chain on a bike when the bike is constantly breaking the chain because its broken. Granted repairing the chain will solve the visible problem temporarily. But in the end more problems will be found and it just makes more work that needs to done then fixing the true problem in the first place.

Btw this is all PVE. Not PVP. So any change should only be in pve and should not effect pvp in any way.
Anyway
When the mechanics of the game are not dynamic in terms of damage mitigation it will always result in those that have more dps then survivability being more effective because survivability is pointless.

In other words. Because the game has instant kill machanics that are no less effective against full blown tank-type characters then glass cannons It makes running defense stats pointless because in actuality defense stats are useless in that scenario while having more dps is useful.

Thus it is the mechanics of the game that needs to be fixed, tweaked ,polished to allow the majority of play-styles to have some visible role and effectiveness.

So for a example change how damage in pve works with armor so that high armor characters are noticeably more effective in mitigating damage than a glass cannon. Thus making that kind of play style have a viable point to it.

There are many other things that need to be done that I don’t have the patience nor the time to bother explaining. but simply put.

“This games pve in most areas is nothing but boring repetitive play with very little interesting mechanics to make the player(s) both as a individual or as a group think or take up separate roles (support, and control) besides dps so as to win their confrontation. It’s all stack and dps and dodge that instant kill mechanic with very little variation on the majority of confrontations or tactics needed to win”

So nerfing the most effective style of play because of how the broken machanics works will not solve the problem. Simply because it will not make the other play styles any more viable than they are now. Thus this will only damage the game.

I run offhand focus for the majority of my builds. Not for the speed boost although it is a nice bonus….

That and traveler runes

There is a trick you can use to transfer a legendary(or any soul bound skin) to another character

Take skin transmutation stone white level 1-5 +(Grab skin of legendary , and stats of white item)= account bound legendary skin.

Then take that now account bound item to your bank and by extension the charector you want to have it. use a transmutation splitter, and walla!

You have now transferred your legendary to another character at the cost of a few gems

*note if you mess up with a transmutation(such as loosing the legendary skin) the transmutation splitter can fix that. (SO DONT DELETE /SALVAGE THE ITEM)

1 with twilight…another with sunrise…and the last with eternity ftw. Very nice.

Almost done with my twilight for my mesmer(just need dusk and a few tier 6mats)

Got a a friend on each race except sylvari(I am sylvari) with a legendary greatsword…..
This gives me a idea lightbulb

Stealth is powerful and arguably OP from just looking at its definition of
“Stealth, also known as cloaking or invisibility, is an effect which allows the stealthed character to be invisible to enemy players, and avoid being targeted by enemy attacks.”

However stealth can be balanced if restrictions are placed on stealth,tools that are used in combination with it, and or tools that grant stealth. There are restrictions and the like already in the game. However that does not mean that those restrictions are perfectly balancing stealth around the class’s and builds. And what I mean by balancing is keeping a average skill to effectiveness ratio so as to keep the game skill-based.

So the question in actuality is "is there enough perfectly balanced restrictions on stealth and or the class’s, and builds that use stealth to make stealth balanced? "

And if not then what actions should be taken to reduce the effectiveness of stealth on those specific builds or class’s by somewhat changing their skills or traits.-specific changes to balance builds that are far too powerful or week.

Or should there be made changes to reduce the effectiveness of stealth itself by changing how stealth functions in the game. Thus changing all class’s, and builds that utilize stealth overall.-base changes to balance stealth overall.

Although some would argue differently this is not a l2p issue, and most certainly should be up for debate and discussion

It is true that people will immaturely judge a build, trait,and or skill as OP, and that it will most likely by out of lack of knowledge or understanding.

However there are multiple criticisms about traits,skills,builds ranging from all class’s and situations that have not been made with lack of knowledge. Rather with excessive amounts of knowledge and understanding. But are denied credibility automatically because players incorrectly have been led to believe the game is perfect and any criticism of that perfection is incorrect.

The facts are this

1) the game is not yet perfect. So there are imbalances within the game still, and most likely forever. Even though those imbalances can be mitigated
The proof of this is that there are regular updates to the balance system.
Why update it if it is perfect?

2) a imbalance in this game is when a build,class,trait,or skill allows in the majority of situations a skill to effectiveness ratio that is far higher or lower than the average build,class,trait,skill.
The reason for this is that because this game is supposed to be skill-based, and anything that gives a high effectiveness for a low amount of skill or a low amount of effectiveness for a high amount of skill contradicts this fact.

3)smart play
Granted of course there will be things that grant a high amount of effectiveness for a low amount of skill in VERY specific circumstances. However when the circumstances reverse their skill to effectiveness ratio will also reverse. So even when running it you will still retain a average skill to effectiveness ratio (assuming everything else is perfect)

To give you a perfect example of this think of reflects.
Reflects will be amazingly easy to use and effective against projectiles however against non-projectiles well….you get the idea.
^taking advantage of these things is what I would call smart build crafting/tactics “smart play”
However so many players have confused this “smart play” with builds,traits,and skills that allow a low skill to high effectiveness ratio in the majority of situations instead of specific ones. Thus breaking the core ideology of skill-based combat. So although it is smart to run those specific builds,traits,and skills. I would simply label them as imbalance users simply because if their skill to effectiveness is greater than the average build in the majority of situations and no situations were the build is countered then its all but certain that they took advantage of imbalances to reach that skill to effectiveness ratio
And I call them imbalances because of #2 above.

So overall i would say this.

There are imbalances in the game. This is unquestionable.

If the core idea of this game is skill-based content then anything that allows a different skill to effectiveness ratio is a imbalance. Unless it is something that is very specific to a situation. (example:reflects)

Knowing this I would say that everything in this game is up to debate.
There are things that are far stronger than they should be or far weaker than they should be. And that these things should be exposed and debated about.

Not idiotically and automatically turned down with the idea that everything is perfect and that we should always mold ourselves to better fit these imbalances.
^ this is how people that are abusing these imbalances are defending themselves from ridicule. And thus keeping us from skill-based content.

There are some things in this game that needs to be molded around us instead,
And molding them around skill-based ideology instead of keeping the imbalances and adjusting ourselves to imbalances would be a brilliant start.

No class is to easy or too hard to play. Granted there can be complications of play style and mechanics. However that only means that the difficulty would vary from person to person but would not have a definitive difficulty level.

Builds, specific traits, and specific skills on the other hand. Do have a definitive difficulty level and a definitive effectiveness level. >skill to effectiveness ratio.

As far as I am concerned every class has a meta build for a specific situation if not all around use.
These builds are meta because they allow the player to reach the same effectiveness as another build(if not exceed it). but with less a need of skill IN Order to reach that effectiveness.

Because the game is not yet balanced perfectly(probably never will be). There will most certainly be bits and parts of a class that is to powerful or too week.

Granted if a class has a lot of viable builds with a roughly equal skill to effectiveness ratio the meta will be harder to see.
But it’s still there so long as there is a build with a lower-skill to higher-effectiveness ratio then the average build. After taking in to consideration the situation that is being used.

So if you want to know if the mesmer is easy to play
My answer would be no.
However i can point you to the specific things that make mesmer seem easy to play.

And if you want to know if the mesmer is too hard to play
My answer would be no
However I can point you to specific things that make the mesmer seem hard to play.

This ideology can be applied to any class

Wyrden.4713:

the only build easy to play and ’ doesnt require skill ’ is most likely a PU build, but its surely gonna be nerfed anyway

and to the guy who said its all about builds, it is about builds like 30-50% i guess?, ye its much but still, if u time ur evades etc and time ur dmg / burst u still can beat a build countering urs

I would think the perfect balance for PU would be to increase the interval to 3 seconds(first boon granted on stealthing). And to grant the random boon to nearby allies(small radius).

Would fix the insane survivability and allow PU mesmers to be useful in team fights.

GW2 was made with the intention of skill-based pvp and content.

However because this is a RPGMMO and the amount of things needed to be balanced is huge. It will take far longer to balance around the idea of skill-based pvp then say a FPS game.

I would think that passive builds should be moderately effective so as to allow unskilled/new players to enjoy the game or class.
However a issue occurs when those passive builds are the most powerful. Because then skillful players not using that type of build will nearly always lose by default.

This breaks the core ideology of skill to win and in its place creates build to win.

I would say that it all comes down passive vs active.
Whichever is favored determines if the game is skill-based or build-based.

Passive play requires very little skill to use so it should have a low skill cap and a low effectiveness to match. Overall it should remain very static in effectiveness and from there be very mediocre

While active play requiring far more skill should have a high skill cap and a high effectiveness potential to match that skill level.

The basic idea is to allow new player to be effective with passive builds but are always trumped by those with a high amount of skill, AND to keep passive play builds as a viable yet not the strongest type of build.

Right now I would say the strongest types of builds on the majority of class’s are those of passive play. This is not how it should be when looking from the perspective of skill-based. Granted the skill is there but its minimized to a degree that’s heart breaking.

Because these specific builds/skills/traits that are strongest are passive and thus easier to use it results in being the meta.

When its the meta it becomes popular. And the more popular it gets it reduces the skill to effectiveness ratio across the class and game more and more.

Because of this eventually all the class’s would devolve In to a single most effective build. Thus destroying diversity for the majority of players as what once was viable will take more and more skill to remain viable.

This has become very apparent in a few of the class’s. Warrior is the greatest example.

The things that portal needs is

1) a range indicator so that we know when the portal is out of range so we don’t waste it.
2) a little timer to give us a idea of how long we have to put down the second part of our portal before it resets. (Like skill 3 from the mainhand sword)

3) bringing down the cool down back to 60 seconds. (Debatable )
Really I think that there were a lot of complaints at realease that brought the increased cool down to this skill.
Seeing as those complaints died down a while ago.
Would be nice if it was back at 60 seconds CD were it belongs.
It is a amazing skill. But very situational. There are far better skills in terms of multiple situational use and CD to take that 1 utility slot. So in most situations its a hindrance.
Would be nice to reduce that hindrance by reducing the cool down back to its original state.

Who am I?
I am the master of time and space.
I am the master of the existent and non-existent
I am the master of unbeatable strategy without even trying

What am I?
I am The embodiment of anarchy and order.
I am the one that can change the world without effort.

All those that stand in my way stand in front of a unstoppable force.
My enemies fight a unbeatable foe. When they fall They cling to their eyes and cry out in fear and disbelief. for before them stands a god

Those that stand to the sides of me and call themselves my ally know this
You have nothing to fear as long as you do two things
Cover your eyes
And Stay out of my way.
For I am the mesmer.

Hmmmm it really does depend.

When making a legendary consider a couple of things.
1) are u even going to use the legendary’s weapon type through the majority of your play?
2) after deciding what weapon types you will use. Decide from the options of those narrowed down weapon types what legendary’s appearance you find most pleasing and really speaks to your own style and character.

Bolt would be a solid choice because we use sword in a lot of our builds. More than 90% I would say. That’s considering off hand and main hand sword BTW.
I am not saying that you should pick bolt. What I am saying is that it would be a solid choice.

I am working on twilight for my mesmer. Almost done too.
I was thinking bolt or twilight(hate the look of sunrise).
Bolt was a nice idea. But when it came to deciding based on looks
I liked darkness far more than lightning.
I decided to go with twilight. Because great-sword on Mesmer is one of the coolest combat styles I’ve ever seen in a video game, and the dark aura really fits my character.

Anyway Good luck with your choice.
And EVEN more LUCK in the creation of it.

Overkillengine.6084:

Chaos.3579:

Now getting back to my point.
You say that A PU Mesmer is almost tailor made to obliterate the usual high offense low strategy builds? (I would say players instead of build. All builds can be changed in style by how it’s used my its user.)
Anyway

What about the trait specifically does that? There is no offense. Or more specifically offenses that target a reckless attacker. Instead simply defense.

The only things that Mesmer has that punishes high offense low strategy style players is confusion, the offhand sword ripost, scepter 2, retaliation. And a few other things this trait does not provide At all by itself.

The majority of these things that punish idiotic attackers are found in a classic mesmer condition build regardless if it has PU or not. how can you or anyone honestly label PU as the defining point of a style that punishes strategy less attackers? Really strikes me as idiots talking idiocy.

A PU mesmer (referring to the build and the variants contain the trait) punishes reckless attacking by denying the effectiveness of mindless offense via that very defense that so offends you.

Cool downs and initiative are resources after all, and most have become maybe a touch too used to squandering them.

Leaving said mesmer able to dismantle the enemy at their leisure if they insist on staying engaged.

An observant player will simply play in a manner to deny the effectiveness of the tools used in a PU build.

If you can’t see that then who is the one being idiotic?

I would think that you among other people are labeling this trait as a counter against the usual high offense low strategy build.
Or are labeling EVERY build that uses PU a counter against the usual high offense low strategy player.
Thus justifying that its effectiveness is only high when the player attacks it.
These ideologies could not be more wrong
PU is simply a survivability staple in a lot of the meta builds available to the Mesmer
Although yes it can be used in a build that counters the usual high offense low strategy player. But that does not mean that the trait itself or EVERY build that uses the trait is a counter against the usual high offense low strategy player.
.
It is stupid to argue that PU or any build that PU is on is only effective if a opponent attacks the user of PU mindlessly.
These ideologies lead people to incorrect conclusions of how to counter PU Mesmers.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Chaos.3579:

Overkillengine.6084:

A PU Mesmer is almost tailor made to obliterate the usual high offense low strategy builds that are endemic in a game that emphasizes ending fights before your opponent can react.

So it’s no surprise many people have issues when facing one because fighting them requires actual thought and observation instead of max possible damage output in the shortest possible time.

yes it is smart to use the best components of a build out there. But it is not honorable to use something that nullifies the skill of the game.

You still don’t get it. You should really go read Playing to Win.

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/intermediates-guide.html

And you Still don’t get it.
The end result is not all that matters. Winning is not all that matters. Its. HOW you win that a lot of people pay attention to.

The end does not justify the means.
The means justifies the end.
Ring a bell?

I know the game is not balanced around 1v1 and I am not insinuating this.
What I am saying is that there are imbalances in the game that a few individuals have, had, and will take advantage of in order to win.
And what those individuals have to understand is that even though they will win. They will not be deserving of that win if it was decided by a imbalance of the game that had not yet been fixed/balanced that they took advantage of.

As far as I am concerned a build in this is supposed to define your play style. But the deciding factor to determine effectiveness will and should always come down to player skill.
This game was made to be skill-based. However there are imperfections in the original design. Otherwise why would they update the combat system, balance this or that?

People have taken advantage of these imbalanced to reduce the need to be skillful thus breaking the core ideology that a lot of the players in the game rely on in order to have fun in it.

I would say being smart in the game is making a build or utilizing a strategy that counters a opponents tactic or build. For a example. Reflects vs projectiles.

However building a build with the soul intent of winning through taking advantage of imbalances, exploits, and basically reducing the need to be skillful Is not playing smart. It’s just cheating.

Overall I would say that PU is a defensive trait that takes absolutely no skill to utilize effectively and is simply a staple in the meta. It is being used to buff the survivability of condition,phantasm, and many other types of builds with very little demand of skill from the user.

Put simply the trait is simply a staple for easy survivability that takes no skill to utilize.

The only offensive tributes this trait can utilize is through the block aegis provides along with runes and or traits.
And the most prominent: the ability to attack the target through illusions without the worry of being targeted yourself because of a large amount of stealth.

Ok now that we have classified a lot of what the trait is and does. NOW wee can come up with a counter that actually makes sense. Instead of something as idiotic as running away?(pathetic suggestion)

As far as I am concerned beating a PU user relies on 2 things.
1) countering the offensive components that the Mesmer utilizes. The stratagy is always the same when fighting any build. regardless if the builds uses PU or not.
Thus if the build is a condition build that applies conditions through projectiles (staff,torch). then the best counter is reflects. If it’s through attacks that relies on a reckless opponents Attack to trigger the condition: play smart and pay special care to pay attention for those specific attacks(offhand sword block,scepter 2).
It goes on and on. but put simply find out how your opponent deals damage and then change your style to counter it.

2) make changes to defend you from a invisible opponent. And have some way to counter the boons provided by the opponent so that when you finally do catch the mesmer you can remove the 33% reduction damage. Just maybe that is what is going to decide if you win or not. Because 33% through a entire battle can be a huge difference in determining victory from defeat.

Right now the only counter to the Mesmers boons is null field, arcane thievery, mind stab, mind spike.
Of course most likely your build will not utilize all of these things. Knowing this it is safe to say that your boon removal uptime will be lower than your opponents protection uptime. So overall you are still at a disadvantage. The idea though it to make that boon removal count right before I burst.

Really I think PU is a idiotic trait. But not looking at the trait itself and instead at its placement in the trait trees I can see another problem. Mainly that the trait is far too easy to get on builds that utilize the chaos tree. Which of course are condition builds.
After all the majority of staff condition builds have 20 in chaos right? So that nullifies the requirement to get the trait to 10 points.

If they moved prismatic understanding to the inspiration tree. I think that this trait would not be nearly as powerful looking at how many builds could viably use it. And in the end result of things the trait should mainly be used as a boon/support role. Thus inspiration is the perfect tree to have it in.

Overkillengine.6084:

A PU Mesmer is almost tailor made to obliterate the usual high offense low strategy builds that are endemic in a game that emphasizes ending fights before your opponent can react.

So it’s no surprise many people have issues when facing one because fighting them requires actual thought and observation instead of max possible damage output in the shortest possible time.

This is not correct. Not even close.

PU is simply a trait that grants a huge amount of survivability through extra stealth, and the defensive boons regeneration,aegis, and the most prominent : Protection.

Stealth is very strong on a mesmer. Simply because unlike thief we can damage our targets without breaking our stealth by summoning phantasms and or keeping illusions up before we stealth to keep a constant damage and pressure on our target.
Illusions being 1/3-2/3 of our dps it astonishes me that we can have that dps while being immune to targeted attacks and nearly immune to the majority of other types of attacks such as aoe.

Ok now that we know the Mesmer has this^ Stealth. Increased in duration and thus effectiveness from PU

Let us then add other factors in to the equation that this trait provides.

Regeneration: ok it adds up in the end but really takes a high healing power to be amazing if at all noticeable although it can tie nicely if used in combination to other traits,runes,skills. But alone it’s alright

Aegis: again it’s alright by itself. It can block some nasty attack but most likely it will just block a auto attack. It can sync nicely in to some of our mesmer traits such as retaliatory shield. Or maybe guardian rune. But again by itself its just ok.

Protection: this is we’re it gets crazy. Protection is 33% damage mitigation stacking with armor and toughness. Knowing this and that the protection uptime this trait provides it is safe to say that the amount of damage mitigation this can provide is amazing by itself . Even though chances are 1/3 a second in stealth. because its for 3 seconds (not including boon duration increases) it will still have a decent duration if somewhat unlucky and a amazing duration if you hit the protection jackpot.

Now what do you get when you consider all of this?
You get a good stealth uptime were you can idle in relatively safe comfort from targeted skills while keeping up a goodly portion of your dps through illusions, and even when cought out of stealth you will still have a extra damage mitigation of 33% from protection. Which is sure to nullify your opponents attack.
^ all this and absolutely no skill required.
Low-skill high-effectiveness in terms of defense to a idiotic degree of dynamic between skill and effectiveness : cheese
yes it is smart to use the best components of a build out there. But it is not honorable to use something that nullifies the skill of the game.

Now getting back to my point.
You say that A PU Mesmer is almost tailor made to obliterate the usual high offense low strategy builds? (I would say players instead of build. All builds can be changed in style by how it’s used my its user.)
Anyway

What about the trait specifically does that? There is no offense. Or more specifically offenses that target a reckless attacker. Instead simply defense.

The only things that Mesmer has that punishes high offense low strategy style players is confusion, the offhand sword ripost, scepter 2, retaliation. And a few other things this trait does not provide At all by itself.

The majority of these things that punish idiotic attackers are found in a classic mesmer condition build regardless if it has PU or not. how can you or anyone honestly label PU as the defining point of a style that punishes strategy less attackers? Really strikes me as idiots talking idiocy.

1) over all slowness of the class.
Would be great if they switched out the boon duration on signet of midnight for a 25% movement speed buff.
2) overall imbalances of the skills/traits the Mesmer has access to. limiting our viable diversity. Some are too strong and a few are so week we would not even consider using because there are far better choices. Thus limiting average and below-average skilled people to use builds that revolve around a few set traits/skills.
If they for a example nerfed PU back to its original state among a few other skills/traits that overpower our other less powerful traits/skills.and buffed a lot of our weaker utility such as signet of midnight and specific weak traits revolving around specific goals(blind,confusion,). Then we would have more diversity of specks, and more diversity of variations of those specks then the meta.

Scepter:
1)clone creation,
2) confusion at medium range,
3)and torment (when used as a block)
Overall full condition damage. No conditions that hinder a opponent(s).
4) Very single target damage over time weapon. With very little survivability

Main hand sword:
1) basic auto attack damage,stacks vuln, removes boons(great with clones)
2) 2 second rooted evade/1-4k attack.
3) leap-cripple but very short duration,swap-immobilize with a decent duration/STUN BREAKER/2 leap finishers
4)overall a good burst weapon with great single target conditions that can hinder multiple opponents, and has moderate good survivability from a combination of blurred frenzy and skillful use of the swap and leap.

Take your pick

Night sentry……what is that^ your mesmer. Looks like It was a necro with all those skulls but then went pink and fluffy with mesmer :/. Btw what is your mask / helmet that makes your face look like a skull?

Xavi.6591:

PU Condition Mesmers eat thieves for lunch.

The idea that in order to counter something so unspecific as “THIEF” is to use a specific build, skill, trait Is idiotic. I would think that a proper suggestion would be to suggest a tactic that is available to the majority of Mesmers.

The counter totally depends on what type of build the PU mesmer is running. If its phantasms then it’s all about anti phantasm summons/destroying the phantasms with extra attacks while trying to keep some sustained dps on the mesmer(with mesmer v mesmer that sustain dps is phantasms)
However condition PU Mesmers (the one you are talking about) Is very hard to counter. The reason for this is that it has the same attack power as a full condition mesmer spec. But with a insane amount of survivability. It is very hard to catch and nearly impossible to kill even if you catch it. It can be beat but depending on your build it will require a good amount of skill and inhuman like timing
Granted it will take amazing reflexes, perfect timed attacks/defenses, and that’s all assuming you have somewhat the right build.

overall I find it laughable what the skill to effectiveness ratio is to play it in comparison to beat it, and even more laughable when people defend the trait saying it’s not at all OP. Granted it is not good for spvp because of inability to capture points. However from a combat perspective, ridiculous
The trait in my opinion should be reverted back to how it originally was.

As a veteran mesmer. Playing since release, and having played PU before anet buffed, and have tested on multiple types of builds with PU after they buffed it. I have to say that PU already gives a amazing amount of survivability from the stealth alone. But that’s not the big issue. The amount of protection uptime is the issue.

On a build that reaches a certain amount of damage mitigation from toughness and other sources this traits protection up time makes those builds extremely hard to damage much less kill, that in combination with the stealth uptime can become a serious problem in terms of being able to catch, AND kill them.

Anyway about the counter against PU condition builds.
If they are running staff/scepture torch then the best defense against most of their conditions is reflects. So focus traited and or feedback. You will also need a way to counter the protection and have a good burst ready right when they come out of stealth. That being said null field is a good choice of utility. Simply because you can remove conditions from yourself, and if used skillfully will be able to rip off the Mesmers protection which will allow you the opportunity in the long run to beat the PU mesmer. But it will not be easy.

The thing you have to understand is that protection mitigates 33% of incoming damage, and that in combination with enough damage mitigation can be the deciding factor. If you attack as you usually do without focusing on removing the protection you will always be 33% behind you opponent, and that big of a % is not something to take lightly.

Another thing you have to take in to account is their attack. How they are attacking. The main thing is to focus on the Mesmers phantasms with low cool down attacks/auto attacks when the mesmer stealths. Standing there doing nothing while the mesmer is in stealth and his phantasms are attacking you is not very smart. You will also need to be very picky about when you dodge. Save the dodges for big damaging moves such as phantasm attacks and obvious mesmer combos. Dodging for nothing but a clone when the enemy cannot be targeted. is a great way to lose. Also be very mindful of your surroundings. If there is a line of sight obstruction. Utilize it.
If your timing is perfect on all your attacks while simultaneously defending against phantasm/condition attacks, and removing the protection, and other defenses of the Mesmer then maybe just maybe you will might win.

Really I think the trait was just fine before they buffed it. Was not as good as it is right now. but perfectly viable for a stealth build. After they buffed it…..well…got very idiotic. Can’t run my post PU buff stealth condition/phantasm builds anymore. Too idiotically and easy to survive/win.

What kind of damage output? Condition damage? Physical dps?

And EXACLY how much dps would you sacrifice for how much survivability?

Sounds to me you would like a high condition damage and toughness build.

Condition damage unlike physical damage does not need 3 stats(power,prec,crit).
It only needs 1(condition damage). Thus you can devote the rest of your stats to defensive stats(toughness,vitality,healing power).

You can check out the different stats on the wiki http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Equipment_acquisition_by_stats

Pyroatheist.9031:

Perhaps it is because my build is more effective than theirs. In this case, why should I take pity on someone using a less effective build? If they truly wanted to win, if that was actually their goal in playing the game, then they would also be using an optimized build. Since they aren’t using an optimized build, the conclusion can be drawn that winning is not their goal, and so me beating them is not ruining their fun.

1) your right. IF their ONLY goal is to win THROUGH any means then they should run the most OP/ powerful build possible.
2) however players have more goals than that simple minded idea. Some actually have a sense of honor or sportsmanship. Thus they want to fight in fair terms with their opponent. Granted if your build is better than theirs and then lose while also taking in to account the skill factor. Then the only players a fault are the losers for not having fun.

However if you beat them with a OP build using cheap advantages through imperfections of the balance system then the person at fault is you for taking away their fun.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Perhaps it is a combination of both. However, in either case you still have no room to argue that it is ruining other’s enjoyment of the game or not playing the game it was meant to be played.

1) It is always both. Skill and build are the 2 factors that make up the combat system.
And my ROOM to argue Is that some builds are too powerful through imbalances in the combat system, and imbalance this balance equation of skill plus build=effectiveness.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Ultimately, you can complain however much you want. You can shake your fists on the forums and scream ‘OP noob using a no skill build’ all you want, but in the end when you get demolished by someone playing to win, I will have no sympathy for you, or anyone else, just another ant crushed under my boot.

Interesting. Well in the exact same scenario I have no sympathy for you. If you used imbalances of the combat system You won on unfair terms. Thus your victory is by itself a lie and thus is sour.

And when I or anyone else running a fair and balanced build not using any imbalances of the combat system in the build beat you. You who if using a cheap OP build that utilizes as many imbalances as you can get your hand on. Well then.
When you are crushed you are not even worthy of the word ant. You are something less. Something that’s Not meant to describe your effectiveness. But instead to describe your honor integrity and sportsmanship. Pathetic in simple terms. And the more pathetic for the more skill you have.

For you who had the advantage had lost.

Lastly. Every thread can be criticized. I have posted my arguments peacefully but vigorously.
I have posted my criticism and have been heard. Regardless if some have been hostile towards me I am done.

Hmm. Enjoy the contest. I would hope that issues that I have brought up are fixed or at least attemted to be in this contest and any in the future,
I do not want the mesmer to devolve in to a very few little-skill high-effectiveness builds

I am done. I will not post anything more on this thread
Enjoy your day. And have fun while respecting the fun of others!

Pyroatheist.9031:

@Menace:

1) just really? Menace? Heh. Thank you for the hostility

Pyroatheist.9031:

If chaos was arguing towards the purpose of ensuring that all the BOTM builds get a fair try, you’d have a point, but he’s not. You give him far too much credit. He is simply arguing on a concept unrelated to the BOTM.

1) Although this was not my only argument this was one of my arguments.
You do remember reading that I was angry that
“there is no measures to balance between low-skill high-effectiveness to high-skill low-effectiveness builds”

Pyroatheist.9031:

Who are you to judge how this game was meant to be played? You seem awfully unqualified to me. The only people qualified to make judgements on how this game is meant to be played are the devs themselves, and since they control what goes into the game, one must assume that every underhanded trick is intended until patched out.

1)Your right. (Partially) I have no right to judge and enforce my ideals of how this game is suppose to be played.

2)however as a player of this game I do have the right to express my opinion about the balance of the game. And no arenanet is not the only people qualified to judge this game. Every player of the game has that right. But anet has the right to change the game and enforce it.

3)what you have to understand is that arena net is not perfect. They are human(or so I hope <.< ), and thus the game has flaws. So no, not every underhanded trick and imperfection that you can take advantage of is intended, and thus should be used with high discretion or most desirably NOT at ALL.
As a example. Do you remember karma exploits???

Pyroatheist.9031:

How am I damaging the fun of others by playing to win? Because I’m beating them? Why am I beating them? Lets explore that a bit more.
I’m beating another person for what reason? Perhaps it is because I’m more skilled than they are. I beat them out of sheer force of reaction time excellence and tactical superiority. In that case, how can you argue that my way of playing is not valid simply because I am better?

1) you really need to read my posts more accurately.

2)I said that you are damaging the fun of anyone that is playing the game without utilizing any advantages through imperfections while you are doing the opposite.

3) it may very well be that your timing and execution are very skillful. However that is not the only factor that you need to take in to consideration. You need to also take in to consideration how good your build is before you can accurately equate your skill to effectiveness ratio. thus if your build is OP it may very well be your build that is your effectiveness and not your skill.

Pyroatheist.9031:

I’d use that build.

That’s because I play to win, I don’t abide by some arbitrary set of playing rules that weaker opponents try to make up. When I play, I play with the intention of demolishing my opponents using every underhanded and over handed and otherwise possible trick I know, and I absolutely assume that my opponents will do precisely the same.

I really do suggest you read that passage that Ross Biddle posted, it should be quite informative for you.

Put simply.
You will do anything to win correct? No matter how dirty, how vile, and will also assume that your opponent is doing the same correct? Would you do this in everything you do?

Technically the things that would give you the advantage would be allowed by the games rules, simply flaws left unchecked by the games creators.

If this was a single player game I would not mind this. Because it’s your fun and has no impact on the fun of others. Any cheap trick that is there to be found I would not mind using or you using because it is our fun and ours alone.

However this is a multiplayer game were your actions have impact on the fun of others.
If you run a build that uses cheap tricks that are still allowed by the laws of the game you are damaging the fun of anyone that is actually playing the game the way it was attempted to be made. A fair game.

However because a perfect fair game cannot be made this complex any imperfections in the game is what you can take advantage of.

So go ahead and run a build were you take advantage of any imperfection in the balance system that gives you a advantage. Does not matter if you crush me or anyone playing the game fairly. Because when I or anyone crush you without using any cheap imperfections of the balance system. We will make a bigger impact.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Chaos.3579:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Xavi.6591:

@Chaos

I don’t see the point of making builds that are not effective and more difficult to use. Just because it is ‘noob friendly’ doesn’t make it a bad build.

Oh, I didn’t mean to imply that at all! (and there isn’t a point of a build that’s both ineffective and difficult… unless it’s hella fun for personal use =P )

I meant that the BoTM doesn’t score builds simply based off how easy they are to use. Every class has builds that are easier for newcomers to pick up and there’s never anything wrong with that.

Edit: I’m so dumb. -_- You meant the other Chaos.

I do have a problem when people try to demean someone else’s win with stuff like “Oh you’re playing a easymode Mesmer. Play a class that takes skill” or “Only noobs use PU”. Every build has it’s strengths and weakness, but people love to try and salvage their pride by talking down on their opponent or making them seem “lesser” in some way. That kind of thinking is counterproductive to learning and growing from your mistakes.

If you have a problem with people demeaning other peoples builds.
Then I have a problem when people boast themselves when they are using a noob build.
If you use a cheap easy to use and yet effective build you do not have the right to consider yourself more superior then someone that uses a harder to use and yet less effective build.

Many times I have found very egotistical people that beam with superiority from their effectiveness and don’t seam to realize that when using their OP build/spec/trait/skill their effectiveness is not relative to their skill nearly as someone using a more honorable build/spec/trait/skill.

So the best build is 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, no armor, runes, sigils, and just a focus? Surely it’d require the most amount of skill to succeed with.

You really need to read this http://www.sirlin.net/ptw/ in particular this http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/intermediates-guide.html

If I can find a build, and defeat my opponents with nothing more than mainhand sword swings, would you consider me cheap and playing easy, or a skilled player?

Very funny how people keep jumping to the idiotic conclusion that I am trying to show everyone what a good build is.

In actuality I am giving a lecture on sportsmanship. Although it is funny how you people don’t seem to realize this

By your logic the best build is:
A build in which you are invulnerable, can instant kill your enemies, can heal your allies to full health remove all conditions/give all boons to your allies and have a a complete kitten nal of support and utility that is unmatched by anything in the game, and all from 1 button

^ this is the perfect build in terms of Low-skill to high-effectiveness.
The perfect build in effectiveness that anyone can use.
The idea that this build contest is based on.

However is the above build, achievable or not, very sportsmanship like?

Put simply anything above the average skill to effectiveness ratio from the bare minimum to this god like idea of a build above is not very sporting.
While anything below the average skill to effectiveness ratio is a handicap that is created at the builds designers hand. By choice or by unintentionally doing it.

My issue with this thread, and somewhat with the OMFG guild is that there is no sense of sportsmanship, no encouragement to use builds that require more skill so as to increase the abilities of fellow mesmers. No sense of wanting to create a challenge. Rather to destroy it.

There is no measures of balance in this build contest so that average-skill to average-effectiveness ratio builds can truly compete with less skill to effectiveness ratio builds.
All builds at average and above have roughly the same potential. however above average builds can reach that potential far more easily and with less skill than other builds, and perhaps can exceed it.

Thus the very nature of this thread being to popularize the most powerful and yet unique build with no countermeasures against un-sportsmanship like features is idiotic and will only damage the game if it is a build that exceeds a certain level of low-skill to high-effectiveness ratio (Most likely through a cheap skill dulling combo of traits,gear skills),and becomes too popular.

If I am wrong. What balance measures is there to allow average specs that do not have a cheap low skill to high effectiveness part(s) in their builds to compete?
And we’re is there if any a encouragement to use not use cheap specs that require a low amount of skill to reach a high amount of effectiveness and to instead use something that requires something that takes more skill to have the same effect, and thus increase the skill of the Mesmers in this forum.

Pyroatheist.9031:

@Chaos: Idk, just smells to me like you’ve been losing to PU specs and you don’t know how to adapt in order to beat them.

The true skill of a player is not shown in what build they play, but how they adapt to overcome a difficult challenge in any way possible. You appear to be failing miserably in that regard.

Sometimes I play PU builds. Sometimes I don’t. Regardless of the circumstance, I don’t complain about them because I understand how they work, and I beat them regardless. You should try doing something similar.

1) interesting. Do I have trouble with PU builds? No. Though they do pose more of a threat then most Mesmers in a 1v1 situation. And not because of the skill of the Mesmer. In actuality running a PU build is far easier then running a regular tank mesmer build. I speak from experience using the trait before and after the buff. stealth is already very powerful on a Mesmer. I know how to counter it and I have. However other less skilled players get the short end of the stick when fighting a PU condition build

Dondagora.9645:

Who says that demonstrating the skill of the player is the holy grail of build creation?

Strange as it may seem, some people actually play this game to, you know, have fun. Not try to impress others with their skill.

1) the holy grail of build creation is designing a build perfectly based on a idea. You can make a build based on effectiveness, skillful use, or anything really. It depends on how you look at it if its right or wrong. You look at builds from a view of what is effective,has potential. While I have been trying to point you out to a duel point of view.
Telling you to see the effectiveness but also look at the difficulty (skill) needed to reach that effectiveness. OP builds have a higher skill to effectiveness ratio than the average build, and have a higher potential.

2) your right. having fun is the purpose of playing this game. However op builds take that away from some of the players. Mainly their opponents. If everyone ran a OP build besides you, would you have fun? Getting hit by a op attack, not being able to get through a op defense. Is that fun? Probably not if you don’t have the skill to match the effectiveness that’s needed. You would have to also run a OP build with somewhat the same skill to effectiveness ratio as everyone else in order to be on the same effectiveness level.

Dondagora.9645:

You’re sort of making my point for me here. Based on this, the best way to demonstrate skill is to use a build that is far from optimal. Why bother with a build contest at all in that case? After all, the worse the build, the better your skill if you can still win with it, right?

Heck, why bother with a build at all? If you really want to demonstrate your skill you can just run with no trait points used whatsoever, right?

Again, I think you have allowed your conceptions about skill to color the purpose of this sort of contest.

What you call “OP” I call “clever”, “elegant” or "effective.

3) yes the best way to demonstrate skill is to have a build in which you will need a insane amount of skill in Order to reach a certain level of effectiveness. However this is not the point I am trying to get across. I am not trying to turn this contest in to “most skill requiring buildcontest”. There is a balance in it. Just because I am telling you to not use a OP build does not mean I want you to do the opposite.
In other words try and respect the fun of others. If you run a OP build is it fair for those that do not?

Dondagora.9645:

What makes you think I care if anyone considers me skilled or not?

This is a build contest, not a contest to prove who’s the most skilled at combat.

That’s why I phrased it as a ratio of effectiveness to difficulty. An ideal build is effective even for a new player and becomes more so as the player’s skill increases.

4) the point of this contest is to find a unique and effective build. I am not questioning this.
My issue with it is that because of how the builds will be judged. Most likely it will be a OP builds that wins, and then that build will be mass popularized. Just like the black water build.
It is relevant If it has a low-skill to high-effectiveness ratio because if its op and its mass popularized the fun of the people running fair skill to effectiveness ratio builds will be damaged to a degree when fighting it.
Usually when I find a contest there are restrictions. Like you cant use this or that for balance purposes so that the winner is not just a cheap spec. This contest has no restrictions. And because there ARE some OP objects the Mesmer has at its disposal chances are a spec that uses it will win.
And although its bad enough for some people to run a op spec. Is it alright to mass popularize it?

Qaelyn.7612:

Chaos.3579:

If you use a cheap easy to use and yet effective build you do not have the right to consider yourself more superior then someone that uses a harder to use and yet less effective build.

That’s your opinion, based on your preconceptions about what makes a build good or not.

As far as I am concerned, the definition of a good build is one with a high ratio of effectiveness to skill requirement. Very strong, experienced players can do well with any build — the trick to a good build is making one that mere mortals can be effective with.

So yes, I consider a build superior if a newbie scrub like me can use it well.

This attitude that a build can only be good if it’s really hard to master is just some misguided form of elitism.

Regardless, people can vote for what they want for whatever reasons they want. There’s no need to demean builds you dislike.

It is not a perception of what makes a good build. Its a perception of what makes a skilled player.

Granted if a build has a low skill requirement to achieve a Certain level of effectiveness that is greater than other builds then yes It is a good build. However that does not mean that the player is skilled when using it just from the effectiveness it shows.

Think of it like this. If its a noob build its a sword. If its a skill requiring build its a spoon.
Although its takes a level of skill to kill a opponent with a sword it would take a legendary amount of skill to have the same level of result with a spoon.

The point is that balance=skill to effectiveness ratio. And balance of the game is having a equal skill to effectiveness ratio among the builds.

This balance is destroyed or damaged when you have certain parts of the combat system that are too week or to strong which results in a different skill to effectiveness ratio.

OP builds take advantage of these imbalances by using 1 or more of the parts that are too strong in the larger scheme of things. Just as UP (under powered) builds try the parts that are too week.

Overall my point is that if you use a OP build then you should not consider yourself skilled just looking at you effectiveness. And the opposite holds true for a underpowered build.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Xavi.6591:

@Chaos

I don’t see the point of making builds that are not effective and more difficult to use. Just because it is ‘noob friendly’ doesn’t make it a bad build.

Oh, I didn’t mean to imply that at all! (and there isn’t a point of a build that’s both ineffective and difficult… unless it’s hella fun for personal use =P )

I meant that the BoTM doesn’t score builds simply based off how easy they are to use. Every class has builds that are easier for newcomers to pick up and there’s never anything wrong with that.

Edit: I’m so dumb. -_- You meant the other Chaos.

I do have a problem when people try to demean someone else’s win with stuff like “Oh you’re playing a easymode Mesmer. Play a class that takes skill” or “Only noobs use PU”. Every build has it’s strengths and weakness, but people love to try and salvage their pride by talking down on their opponent or making them seem “lesser” in some way. That kind of thinking is counterproductive to learning and growing from your mistakes.

If you have a problem with people demeaning other peoples builds.
Then I have a problem when people boast themselves when they are using a noob build.
If you use a cheap easy to use and yet effective build you do not have the right to consider yourself more superior then someone that uses a harder to use and yet less effective build.

Many times I have found very egotistical people that beam with superiority from their effectiveness and don’t seam to realize that when using their OP build/spec/trait/skill their effectiveness is not relative to their skill nearly as someone using a more honorable build/spec/trait/skill.

If there is ANY imbalance that people can take advantage of in order to reduce the skill requirement and increase their effectiveness they will unless they have some sense of fair honorable equality.

Usually only a few people will use that build

But if those builds are then popularized Like THIS thread is doing. Then those “few” people that use that build will become “A LOT” of people using that build.

I have seen it over and over again. tank stun warriors, at first very few then became massive in popularity, tank condition PU Mesmer builds. Few at first then massive in popularity. I can go on and on.

1) But the point is. Not all builds are equal in the skill to effectiveness ratio. Balance is not yet perfect to a desirable degree and this may not change.

2) Builds do exist that take less skill to use and yet are more effective then they should be in comparison.

3)Those builds are then highly popularized because of sources like THIS and we have our new noob build meta.

Granted I have seen some really unique hard to use builds on this forum and other sources. However they are not very popular unlike more easy to use and effective builds. Which is sad.

This reality in which the imbalanced “noob” builds will always be far more popularly used then more balanced and “skill needed” builds is sad.

Its a solid heal.
I am glad that the interval of the heal is 3 seconds. Giving you a max of around 333 hps (healing per second) for the passive. Very fair in comparison to the warriors healing signet because unlike warriors us Mesmers will actually need to use the active to survive.

The active heal is not that special when comparing the hps in to its cool down. Although the phantasm cool down elimination is very nice.

However…I don’t like that because anet added this skill they are buffing a type of mesmer spec that is already too strong and takes very little skill to use.
That of course is high passive defense phantasm/condition specs that usually have 30 in chaos.
They take no skill to use because you don’t have to pay attention to timing or execution, and the survivability is insane. They play off passive play and thus are auto piloted to victory

Xaylin.1860:

I also always assumed that the rune had an ICD on the 6th attribute. If not, this indeed is pretty interesting. Are you using Retaliatory Shield or isn’t it worth it because of wearing Dire? I personally would probably ditch Debilitating Dissipation in favour for Glamour Mastery.

Let’s hope they do not “nerf” Mimic today.

If they nerf something they will probably nerf the guardian rune.

However 1s of burning per block is pretty small….soooooooooo I don’t think anything will be nerfed.

There is already a topic on this…buuut anyway.

I warden has been acting out ever since arena net updated it to “chase” its target.
Just a bug.

Great another one of these.
I don’t really like this. Just a way to spread noob “easy to use” builds to the masses.

What was the last build? Blackwater? A build were you run in circles summoning phantasms and applying conditions in a high in vitality and toughness defense while also stealthing? The build that is very passive play and needs no skill to use?
Ya must have been that one.
Anyway
I find it very funny that the most effective builds are those that need no skill to use and are just auto piloted on the back of passive play. So knowing that people will judge the builds by their effectiveness and how easy it is use the build. the most likely builds to actually win the contest are going to be very easy to use and yet also effective noob builds.

So shouldn’t this “build of the month contest” actually be called the
“Most effective and easy to use noob build of the month contest”?

I am very curious about what will be selected this time though. Simply based on the idea that it has to be a unique concept.

Although Because I know that the builds will be judged only on their effectiveness and how easy it is to use. I have no doubt that the build will be high on passive defense(toughness ,vitality ,and or healing power.) Most likely 30 in chaos. Not very sure if it will be phantasm or condition. Although I know it won’t be shatter.
Well I guess we will have to wait and see

I actually don’t like mantra of concentration.

The tiny duration of the stability makes this skill near useless in comparison to other class’s stability sharing.

What they need to do is make this skill a aoe stun breaker. Something we could use to break our allies out of a stun daze or fear.

I wouldn’t say that its because of the new heal skill.
Instead just the fact that Mesmers unique play style is a lot of fun.

Although about the new heal skill coming out. I hate it. Can’t believe arena net is buffing a already too strong noob way to play mesmer.
Running around stealthing, summoning phantasms. Letting ai do all the work. No skill just passive play.

Its a interesting build. However it’s not something I have not seen before.

It is very effective in a 1v1 situation. However it is not good for team fights (unless you are a person that picks off the target) due to the lack of a aoe interrupt potential.

This build however is very effective in shutting down a single target because you can chain dazes from mantra of distraction. Which if used as a interrupt can really shut down a target because the daze will shut down skill use and the immobilize will shut down movement. Which is essentially a stun. However even if the target uses a stun breaker they still have to deal with the immobilize.

Overall it shuts down a single targets ability to dodge, and activate non stun breaker skills. Making the target a perfect sitting duck for the phantasms.

Its a very solid concept.

Edit- maybe try switching out illusionary disenchanter for null field. I find disenchanter pales in comparison to null field. In boon removal, condition removal, and usability

You can use the summon of the phantasmal swordsman or the leap / swap from main hand sword for chaos armor. Also null field is unaffected by blind unlike disenchanter

Hay fellow Mesmers. A little while ago arena net patched the warden so it would idiotically chase down its target like a chicken with its head cut off.
Now why I say that is because the aoe of the warden is so pathetically small that if the target keeps moving the warden will never use its attack. Which means the skills only use is shatter fodder < makes me cry its so sad to see this skill fall so low from 1 update.

The phantasmal wardens main use is projectile protection/reflection depending on if you have the trait or not.
However because of the update if the target is not in range at the start of the summon it will not use its attack and thus make this skill useless.

AND even if it does use its attack from FINALLY getting in to range. The target can just slip out of the small aoe pathetically easily.

Overall a very bad update that may have very well broken the focus phantasm so its nothing more than a 25 second single illusion generator.

MOST OF THE TIME the phantasm will not use its attack on summon and will instead wait a few seconds then chase around the target if the target gets out of range.

I feel that focus is already very week in damage compared to the other mesmer off hand weapons.
SO I DO NOT appreciate any updates that break this already fragile weapon!

What I want the focus’s phantasmal warden to do is
1) on summon for it to IMMEDIATELY use its attack REGARDLESS if the target is in range or not!!!! This way I can have a stable projectile protection, and good damage if I can pull the enemy in to the warden from a Number of tactics.

The focus really is a bad weapon in terms of damage in comparison to the Mesmers other off hand weapons. This is mainly because the aoe of the warden is so small and enemies rarely stay in the wardens aoe long enough to know what moderate amount of damage it has.

The focus makes up for its lack of damage in utility however. Which makes the focus the weapon of a strategist. It takes skill to use effectively and that’s what I like about it.

If arena net wants to improve the focus they can do multiple things instead of breaking it by messing with the ai.

I would say all it really needs Is a massive increase in damage so that people will actually have to be careful not to go in to the aoe of the phantasm however small the aoe is.

Or perhaps the phantasm could inflict some conditions such as weakness and cripple.

Anyway arena net. Return the ai back to its original state and don’t touch it again please

My question is strictly about balance

Before I begin let me give you a simple education of balance

There are 2 types of things that make up a build in this game. Those 2 things are active plays, and passive plays

A active play is when you activate a skill that will either shield you from damage. Or inflict damage. But take timing to use effectively (skill required)

A passive play is when for a example you build for a stat. Such as power, and condition damage (offense). Or toughness, and vitality(defense) Or having a skill or buff that you do no have to worry about timing in order to use effectively. (No skill required just good build design)
^
about this. It is ok to build for passive defense or passive offense. BUT ONLY if it is a perfect equal tradeoff for passive offensive or defense respectively.
So for a example:
building a highly passive defensive build should not have a high passive offense(and vice versa with a passive offense build).

I would think balance of passive offense and defense in any game should be perfect.
As in the more you commit to defense you should lose more and more offense. The result of which is that every build will have a equal passive effectiveness.

Active play can be tricky to balance because of the sheer number of types and complexity among the class’s

However passive play should be balanced perfectly. There is no excuse for it not to be because of how simplistic it is.

If you have been unable to follow along. allow me to make this simplistic.
Let’s say for any build on any class you are given 10 passive effectiveness resources to use.
You can place that passive effectiveness in to offensive or defensive

So you can have 5 in offense, and 5 in defense for a total of 10 passive effectiveness.

The basic idea is that no matter how you distribute your passive effectiveness you will always reach a perfect total passive effectiveness level equal to everyone else.

However a issue occurs when you can reach a certain effectiveness level in offense or defense without having to commit a fair number of resources to reach it as every one else does.

THE Actual question/debate
Ok my question is about power builds vs condition damage builds.

They both do a equal amount of dps. However…..one takes less commitment in order to be effective dps wise.

Power builds need 3 things to be effective dps wise : Power, precision, and critical damage.

Condition builds need only 1 thing to be effective : condition damage

You see the problem?
Running a condition build is far more effective then running a power build because overall after calculation damage AND survivability its effectiveness is far higher.

As in because condition damage builds only need to commit 1/3 the amount of resources to be effective. they can then distribute the other 2/3rds resources in to defensive attributes.

I know that power builds are suppose to be burst, and condition builds are suppose to be sustain however the TOTAL dps is the same. So why then should condition builds be able to commit less for the same dps and also have the ability to increase their defense?

A simple solution would be nerf the base condition damage. Have condition damage crit. Thus making a condition build have to commit just as much as a power build in order to be effective. A odd idea I know.

What’s needed to be effective dps wise:
Power build : power, prec, crit. 3X the commitment as the condition build for the same dps

Condition build : condition damage 1/3 the commitment as a power build for the same dps.

What I want to make this more fair:
What’s needed to be effective dps wise :

Power build: power, prec, crit. Same commitment as the condition build for the same dps

Condition build: condition damage, prec, crit. Same commitment as the power build for the same dps

Thoughts?

THE WARDEN CHANGE IS NOT COOL!!!!!!!!

The wardens main use is projectile protection/reflection

Having the warden chase around a target makes the utility and protection it provides useless because it does not use its attack often enough if at all, AND it makes predicting when next it will,provide the utility/defense extremely hard
Any damage it inflicts is a bonus.

Overall. A very bad update.
If arena net wants to improve the warden = damage buff. Simple
Any ai change just makes the skill usless

The use of clones is
1)conditions
2)confusion(not the condition, actual confusion in the mind of the opponent on the other side of the screen
3) shatter fodder.

Simple.

Have fun on the mesmer

Hay fellow Mesmers. Recently arena net changed the ai of the warden so that it will try to get in to melee distance of the target. Although I know anet was trying to help us I would think they actually reduced the usability of the warden by 50%.

Sometimes the warden will spawn and start its attack right when its summoned. But if the target moves out of range during its summon it will not attack and will try and follow the enemy. Which of course means that it will never use its attack if it can never get in range. From my experience using focus after this patch half of the time the warden will never use its attack if the target is very mobile.

Overall a very bad update.

What arena net needs to realize is that the main use of the warden is projectile protection/reflection. Making any change to the ai so that It does not use its skill makes the focus useless. The damage from the skill itself is a bonus if the target is in range.

I do not want the utility sacrificed for damage. Especially if by doing so makes the skill useless half of the time based on the mobility of the target.

On a side note.
the focus is the weapon of the strategist. It has a lot of utility and defensive if traited.

However it is very week in offensive compared to our other offhand weapons. Which is fine because its a trade off for utility. However

If arena net wants to improve the focus. I would advise a increase in damage rather than a improved ai. I would think being in the aoe of the warden is not nearly as punishing as it should be seeing as the aoe is very small and immobile. A 50%-100% damage buff and/or some conditions such as cripple, weakness vulnerability ? (1/2 sec per hit) would be perfect I would think.

Thoughts?

Ya…the uses of essence of luck are actually lacking. You can mystic forge them in to higher or lower tiers…But they always have the same amount of luck any way you look at it…..

Would be great to just have them automatically add the essence of luck to your account.

There are many different tips and tricks you can use. The most useful tips are the ones that give Mesmer mobility. Osicat really does cover this.

However with offensive and defensive tips and tricks it really depends on what weapons you are using.

The most common Mesmer weapon I think is main hand sword.
But a lot of Mesmers are not using it to the fullest of its potential. A lot of Mesmers will just spam sword 3 then chain in to 2. Although this works most of the time. Because players are so used to spamming it without thinking they will sometimes waste the 2 skill. Or hit the swap on the 3 skill too early. Or because its so commonly seen a lot of skilled opponents can easily avoid it.

A good sword Mesmer will not spam the sword skills depending on the opponent they are fighting so as to preserve their skills for future use.
1) There is a offensive setting in which you use the immobilize then the 2 skill and shatter for burst. This stratagy is very common. However it puts all of your main hand weapons on cool down.
some really good Mesmers will save the 2 skill for when they need to defend themselves and only use the 3 skill for the immobilize. Immobilize greatest use if you do not know is the ability to take away the opponents ability to dodge. You can chain this in to another offense besides sword 2. Working with your offhand is actually key for maximum offense. For a example if you are using sword sword. You can use the 3 skill to immobilize right before a phantasmal swordsman is about to attack.

2) and there is a defensive setting in which you use the swap on the 3 skill to break stuns, get to a more defensive location and or get out of melee range. When your opponent is close you can use leap then shatter the clone. Then you will have a 4 second window to use swap which will teleport you 600 game units in the direction of the clone that was destroyed Swap believe it or not is a stun breaker. Which if used correctly can be invaluable for defense. Particularly against warriors.
If you find that your opponent is dangerous in melee range then saving the 2 skill for that defensive moment is a must.

All of the Mesmers weapons can be used offensively and defensively. Learning the full potential of each of your skills and the potential when combined with other skills is something everyone needs to figure out in order to reach their potential. Don’t just use the same trick over and over again.

with Mesmer The trick is to be creative and never predictable.

Edit : bumping this topic because I feel that its a good thread and did not get enough feedback

If your stand is that the rune #6 should be nerfed so that every class can use it moderately equally then I think you should look at rune of lyssa. Class’s cannot compete with the low cool down timers of theif with that rune (heal 15 sec,elite 45 sec) should Lyssa rune also have a cool down timer on its skills so as to make it more fair for other class’s? (heal 30 sec cool down, elite 90 second)

Perplexity rewards interrupts . And that means that class’s or builds with a lot of cc’s have a advantage against those that do not.
Just as Lyssa runes rewards class’s and builds with shorter cool downs than most.
There are many more examples. Although the point I am trying to get across is that some runes should not be just as viable with every class. If this is not the case then a lot of the runes need to be gone over.
To be honest the only problem I have had is the runes of perplexity’s duration. Something I think you have not given enough credit to the number of stacks and the ability to shut down the targets skill use.

When I play I am always considering the potential of a interrupt if I use a skill, and what I can do to minimize that interrupt potential. In short i play smart instead of reckless in regards to preventing interrupts
Perplexity has never bothered me by having 10 stacks of confusion coming out of nowhere because I am very rarely interrupted, and even more rarely interrupted twice in a row. The only bad part about perplexity is that when the confusion is applied. It stays for a very long time. Mesmers can get the perplexity duration to 20 seconds. This is not a problem if you use your condition removal fast when it reaches a certain number of stacks. But eventually you will run out of condition removal and because it stays for a very long time the idea of waiting it out is suicide.

I would think that all the rune of perplexity needs is a duration nerf by 50%.
You can prevent the high amount of stacks by playing smarter in regards to being interrupted