Guild Wars 2

I like the idea of trying to spice up regular weapon abilities, and some re-working is probably in order. However, I was also thinking about banners, because I feel like they are one of the unique things about the Warrior class, but they just seem to be more clunky than anything else.

What if a banner was more like an Engineer kit. Bear with me, because I know the numbers don’t shake out, but if you put a banner on your utility bar, then it pops over onto a profession button. When you press the button, you grab the banner that is otherwise riding on your back (so you’re radiating buffs). You can then use the banner abilities, and either slam it into the ground for the blast effect, or put it back onto your back. If you have multiple banners, you could have multiple buffs radiating, as well as the ability to swap between banners to apply the different buffs.

As previously mentioned, you can have 4 banners at once, and there are only 3 profession slots remaining, so I know it isn’t completely realistic. However, I feel like it would make me really think about using a banner, which would add an extra dynamic to my play. Pulling it out, buffing everyone a few times, maybe charging forward, putting it back, etc.

I have tried banners a few times, and although I think they can be useful for teams, they seem too clunky to really use in a fast-paced fight.

Otherwise, I’ve thought about ideas similar to Braxxus’s above, where stances affect the abilities and allow for more dynamic play. I would love to be able to press more buttons and have a more dynamic experience, even if I already love the class.

Look how good of a guy you are. I’m ultra surprised to hear that winkeys have been removed, but they would definitely add some light-hearted context that the internet otherwise cannot convey. The first few posts came off very much as “WARRIORS ARE TERRIBLE SHUT YOUR MOUTHS”, but I can see where that’s an exaggerated misconception.

I’ll agree that competitive tourney play is the only form of PvP that matters re: balance. You can do whatever in WvWvW and make it work with enough effort. However, what is competitive tourney play at this point? Did they ninja organized PvP/paid tourneys/private servers into the game while I have been taking a short break? If not, then free tourneys are just random tourney queues, and I feel like the really competitive match-ups are too few and far between to really start evolving the game beyond what it is now.

My current favorite example is Dendi pudge, if you follow the competitive DotA scene. No other professional DotA team or player plays pudge ever it seems, but teams still respect ban pudge from Na’Vi because Dendi manhandles people with him. It isn’t like the rest of the players are bad, it’s probably just that Dendi loves pudge and figured out how to make him fit into their framework. Similarly, if you find someone with a love for Warrior, I can’t help but feel like that person will adapt appropriately to fit into the mold and contribute properly to a team.

But again, I’ll wait for the actual competition to start. Private servers, private tourneys, more hardcore practice, etc. I get that the math points to inferiority, and all signs point to inferiority, but I’m stubborn as all hell.

Braxxus.2904:

Ew… Well I’ll try not to let that dissuade me from remaining civil.

Perhaps I don’t know you well enough to recognize your light-heartedness on his light-heartedness, but civility hasn’t exactly been your modus operandi since your initial post in this thread. The only impression I’ve gotten out of your content is an aggressive attempt at convincing others that Warriors aren’t good enough for tPvP, instead of trying to brainstorm innovative ways to fit them into a comp.

Also, I think comparing the same weapon across classes is sort of missing the point. So the Guardian shield abilities buff allies and have some extra utility. Shield of Judgement is also on a base 30 second cooldown, while Shield of Absorption is on a base 40 second cooldown. How much damage reduction does a teammate get from a well-timed stun from Shield Bash? Sure, giving your entire team Protection in an AoE clufu could math out to be more, but at that point you’re putting your team into a position where Guardian utility benefits more, and trying to shoehorn Warrior into the same role because it has the same weapon is simply unfair to the class.

The bummer about this whole conversation is that it’s going precisely nowhere. It’s like a political debate in that two sides are stating their opinions, but neither is ever considering the others. I think ruling Warriors out at this point, before competitive tournaments can even form, is completely silly. I refuse to take a stance that says “Warriors are just inferior”, but perhaps that’s because I don’t limit myself to sPvP. However, Braxxus, you refuse to even consider for a second that you, or other warriors, are simply not utilizing yourselves or not being utilized by your groups in a manner that really plays on a Warrior’s class strengths.

Everyone thinks they have the entire game figured out already it seems (at least on these forums), and that, to me, is a major disappointment in this community.

But I digress. All it really takes is one innovator to show the community what a class can do given the appropriate circumstances, and suddenly there’s viability. A class will not evolve without dedicated players to really test its limits and work towards finding its niche, even if that niche is less apparent than others (and even if, ironically, the abilities appear more straightforward than others).

We don’t have to think much about our skill rotation because they are so simple that most of them ends up being used on recharge without critical thinking.

And people wonder why their abilities are dodged so easily.

Also, the way any competition evolves is that one side finds something that works and uses it. The next side then needs to find out how to counter it before the first side needs to then adapt again. If these so-called top teams are all moving away from Warrior, then the Warrior class isn’t evolving. The beauty of Guild Wars 2 is that you can re-roll whatever in minutes for sPvP. The curse is that you can re-roll whatever in minutes for sPvP. How do you know when a class is balanced if everyone is taking the obvious route?

You have to wait for people who love the class to really push it to the limit. Plus, as far as I’m concerned, free tourney queues mean about as much as hot-join. I’ll wait for organized competition before starting to see what teams choose and how comps pan out.

Also, while the warrior is mindlessly drone-chasing his target around while the target has Stability, what is the rest of the team doing?

I really, really hope they never, ever add any natural, random % block or dodge chance.

Also, what’s the maximum uptime for Stability for each class? What does it require, what does it sacrifice, and how long is it then down before it can be up again?

@Tom Gore: And therein, as the bard would tell us, lies the rub. How many PvPers can admit that their opponent is competent? The typical pattern I see is that someone watches a video, Monday Morning Quarterbacks their opinion all over the victor/loser, and continues on their merry with their opinions about a weapon/build. In addition, any time someone loses, they blame a build or class, stating that the other player wasn’t very good, but said player won anyway because of something OP.

“Oh the person didn’t dodge Earthshaker, what a noob.”, etc.

What sort of Hammer video would prove the point? One where the enemy dodges all of the Hammer stuns and the Hammer still wins? That disregards any player ability to bait out dodges to set up a good hammer stun, and therefore we can’t show you that sort of video because then, from my perspective at least, the hammer warrior wouldn’t be good.

From what I can tell, our opinions about a good hammer warrior video are mutually exclusive, or we’d have to sit down together and watch it for the ability to analyze what’s happening in real-time.

Anyway, I love my hammer, and will continue to use it. I have no delusions of grandeur, and probably >75% of the people I’ve seen dodge roll the second you’re in range of a melee attack anyway, so its usefulness is incredible.

Guldur.6502:

I believe one of the main issues with the warrior besides being easily kited is the fact that his skills are too simplistic, which do not allow for a higher skill cap.

One of the main issues is more that the players see an ability that just does damage and think it’s simplistic. They sell the skill cap short and don’t realize the ceiling isn’t about comboing conditions (which is fairly shallow skill), and more about timing and positioning (which condition users will still need, it’s just behind the initial layer that people see).

For example, Whirlwind Attack. It’s really tempting to just use it after 100 Blades, or to lead into someone, or whenever it’s up and you’re next to somebody, right? I mean, it does damage, it closes distance, it’s wonderful. However, pick up Mobile Strikes, and suddenly you have a dodge (since WA gives evasion frames) that breaks immobilize. Just get Bolas’d? WA into the Warrior who is potentially 100Bing you. You’ll evade, do damage, and break the immo in one ability. Get rooted by a Thief? Use WA. You can save WA for a more tactical use than just damage.

Same goes for many abilities. I truly feel that how you use your abilities will define how good of a Warrior you become. If you think of a common hammer, what is its function? To slam nails into other material? Sure. However, unless you’re a handiman, you probably don’t think of the claw on the back that’s used to pry nails up. The Warrior class has its obvious side, and its less obvious but still useful side. The uses are there in front of you, you just have to recognize them.

Whirlwind does damage within the first split seconds. At that point, it isn’t a feint, it’s an attack. It finishes in about 1 second. Where do you cancel it such that it’s a feint? When are you feigning a Whirlwind that can catch an enemy off-guard that doesn’t involve damaging the enemy with Whirlwind or evading damage with Whirlwind?

Similarly, when are you feigning a 100B when you’ve already done a few thousand damage in the first set of hits? It doesn’t matter that they all hit. They don’t have to. A few thousand damage on a 6 second cooldown is more than enough if you can pull it off.

Canceling the appropriate ability should not be at high cost. If you escape a Backbreaker, you incur a 4 second cooldown instead of 24. There are definitely abilities that can be canceled appropriately, and similarly, they should have appropriately diminished cooldowns. As it stands, I can’t see any of the Greatsword abilities as falling within that category.

Despite what people may think, extra DPS isn’t nothing. It’s only nothing if the player dies.

I’m throwing the challenge flag. You think Rush can be used to feint? How? You’re already closing distance. So you can cancel the ability at the end, before the swing, get a highly reduced cooldown and think “Lol totally feinted him, good thing I’m right next to him now and used the arguably most important part of the ability without incurring the full duration”.

I don’t get it. You don’t feint with Rush. You just use it. You feint with something like Backbreaker, or some other charge-up ability. That is feint-able, showing that you’re going to do one thing, provoking a dodge, and switching to something else. It adds yomi in that now the other player might not know if you’re going to use it, so they could either dodge, or not dodge, and you get more depth in the game.

But something like Rush, you’re gaining benefit right from the onset. Whirlwind attack does damage and has evade frames immediately. 100B does damage immediately. None of these abilities lend themselves to feinting, because you’re instantly gaining benefit.

@PanH: There should be a high cost for canceling a move you’ve committed to. It will encourage you to play smarter the next time if you’re looking to get better.

Enjoyable read, thanks. I attempted to do something like this for Tera to figure out precise multipliers for differences in character level, but there was too much missing information. I enjoy seeing the straight-forward calculations though, and I’ll most likely start using this equation when working through things in the future.

Cheers.

Braxxus.2904:

Thundar.3910:

Defektive.7283:

Example of Support/Pressure:

http://www.twitch.tv/defektive/b/334138943

Really great build. You want to help your team? Play this build.

Or stop being selfish and reroll to a class that does the job better. OMG HAMMAR WAR? Hell just roll a hammer guard, 200% more beneficial to your team. HURR DPS WAR?! Go thief, engi, ranger, mesmer, or even a dps guard. Doesn’t take much to simply look at what the abilities the other classes offer in relation to similar warrior abilities to realize you get more out of another class.

This poor man has resigned himself to a lifetime of mediocrity. Almost brings a tear to my eye.

Play smarter. Anticipate better. Get better in general at the game.

I appreciate the risk/reward that these abilities impose.

As much as you may not like it because they aren’t giving shouts or something to the rest of the party, high DPS also supports the group because mobs die faster. This build provides high DPS, and if you otherwise have a bunch of people trying to just go support-y for the rest of your group, it could be exactly what you need to bring bosses or mobs down in a timely manner before you’re overrun.

Try not to blame the build for the player. Sure, it’s a simple build. However, if the user doesn’t die and does rocking damage, then roll with it. You’re playing with a good player who knows how to execute and provides good damage for your party.

If someone dies repeatedly with signets, odds are they’d die repeatedly without signets. If they start blaming the game and crying about mechanics, again, you’re looking at the player to blame.

You’ve said yourself you’ve played with both good Warriors and bad Warriors with a signet build. As such, you might be able to draw a conclusion that statistically, a random player using signets is more likely to die frequently due to being bad, but you should always give the person a chance.

Please, blame the players, and not the build. Setting synergistic build expectations in a pug will only lead to frustration as well, so you have to know what you’re getting yourself into before you get yourself into it.

As an aside, I universally love seeing enemy Warriors with 5 signets in something like WvWvW, because they’re always extremely easy to kill.

Most often, players with the Hammer are telegraphing their movements more than the movements themselves. “Oh the Hammer warrior is in range, he’ll probably use Backbreaker now because it knocks you down for two seconds, better dodge.”

You’d be surprised how many times people dodge away from auto-attacks. When they do, then they’re 1 less dodge from being stunned. When they don’t, well, you’re doing a lot of damage, and now they don’t know what you’re going to do.

As Defektive said, lead in with Earthshaker. It’s a pretty quick animation, but you should still be using it intelligently. You also have another weapon set to trigger dodges as well, so use the hammer wisely and it will deliver miracles.

Also, don’t blame the weapon for your failures, and don’t try to rationalize your failure by assuming the person fought in a video is a “noob”. You’ll only hamstring your own progress.

It’s so refreshing to see all of the level-headed responses to this impossible thread. I’ve been using a greatsword since I found one because I love greatswords. I’ve never once used Rush because of its damage, instead treating it like a charge without damage (in fact, I’d cancel out of the swing more often than not if I could).

Two things:

1. You tell Whirlwind Attack precisely where you want to go. Not sure how much more control for a 1 second animation you expect.

2. You tell Rush precisely where you want to go. Want to charge a target? Click one, and it’ll compensate if the target turns. Want to rush to a point? De-select and point yourself in that direction. It might not swing at the end, but you can tell the move exactly where you want to go.

The risk for Rush is that you will run for X distance after you press the button. Did you point in the wrong directly? Still have a target selected behind you? Use it inappropriately? Your fault.

The risk for 100B is that it roots you. Don’t want to be rooted? Do you continue attacking once no one is being hit anymore? Your fault.

The risk for Whirlwind Attack is… well, there isn’t one. It does high damage, grants mobility, synergizes well with Mobile Strikes, has a short cooldown, and gives you evasion frames. If you ask for any more out of this ability because you sent yourself off a ledge a few times, I’m going to petition ANet to delete your Warrior and refuse your account the creation of another.

The abilities were designed as such for a reason, and you have full control over when and where you want to use them. Try adapting to the game instead of requesting that it adapt to you.

@wintermute : You are a gentleman and a scholar. I’ve casually wondered what has been causing those bubbles, litrally, for weeks.

Yep, 1 strike of Adrenaline per 3 seconds while in combat.

Thank you for the consolidated, nicely-formatted list, Sami. I really wish we could keep the OP updated with a list like this. It might be prudent to just spawn a separate thread to be stickied.

I know you’re simply being comprehensive, but I’m still unsure about some of the Quality of Life stuff. The animations for Staggering Blow and Hammer Shock don’t lend themselves to movement. They still have their place in usage, it just isn’t the obvious “run at them and spam” usage, which people seem to also be complaining about in other regards (class is just switching to a weapon, using the abilities, then switching to the other weapon). It might be useful to note that it’s a point of contention, unless I’m the only guy out there who is OK with those two Hammer abilities locking me in place.

But… but… hammer abilities are so obvious and easy to dodge, and slow, and the Thief was just bad, and my team won’t take me if I’m not Frenzy/GS, and.. and…

Kudos on the analysis. To me, it seems like just the kind of inspection of the class that will evolve the meta and have an impact on the game.

Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806:

I love how MMO game forums are always filled with armchair software engineers who think fixing bugs is an easy thing.

Bugs are prioritized and triaged. Warrior’s literally have no class breaking bugs right now. Other classes do. Also, what you may think is a simple thing IE. “Fast Hands” may very well exceeding complex and “fixing” it may end up breaking another system.

If it were an easy fix, it’d be done already. Either Warrior’s are going to receive a major update in an upcoming patch, which is why no fixes have been implemented… or the bugs pertaining to the Warrior class are in actuality, very difficult to fix or not as important as other bugs.

Patience is a virtue.

Cheers.

Certain slow projectiles miss a lot by nature of projectiles. You can minimize the effect by using them intelligently.

Charge and leap skills are a problem that effects multiple classes. Odds are the fix is complex. It’ll come in time, and in the interim, play smart to minimize the effect.

Fast Hands could definitely use a fix. However, its overall effect is, for the most part, quite minimal. I use it, and I’ll probably always use it because of how it plays. I’m affected too. The fix will come, but having an extra 5 second weapon swap cooldown a few times pales in comparison to things like Epidemic having infinite range and the bugs that plague certain tPvP maps.

If you have a spark of rationality in you, you’ll accept the Warrior class, you’ll deal with it like a champion, and you’ll take the fixes when they come. You’ll keep posting new bugs and updating the bug thread with the current state. You’ll treat the situation like a rational being, and do your part to fix the situation.

Or you’ll cry and bleat like petty, jaded children.

Your move.

I’m beginning to think Warriors are the most complex class, because no one seems to be able to play one.

I’m surprised people like Samuels exist, but then again, I guess I’m not all that surprised.

Mods should start renaming all of the threads like this to:

“Class X killed me in situation Y, and now I’m mad because it couldn’t possibly be my fault.”

I remember when I played video games for fun. I still do, but apparently people need to be rewarded to feel like it’s a good use of their time these days. I wonder if this can be tied to any cultural shifts.

Point systems for PvP basically always have holes that min-maxers utilize to get as many points as quickly as possible. Try thinking of ways to fix it, then look at what you did and think of ways to break it. You’ll probably find it’s more difficult than it seems, or bring your ideas here, and I’ll break them for you.

Exploits happen. It took what, a month for exploits to be found and pursued to this degree? Maybe 3 weeks? And that’s with millions of players. Fortunately, free tournaments mean nothing, so the exploits don’t lower your ranking or give anyone any fame or anything. Perhaps that’s why they haven’t released ranked PvP systems, so they could suss out all of these issues. Imagine that.

I’m completely unconvinced that anyone has mastery over his/her class yet. So what if you found something that works now. The way games evolve is the following:

1. One side figures out a way to win, and uses it to win.
2. The other side figures out how to beat that way to win, and uses the counter to win.
3. The original side sees the counter and develops a way to win again.
4. Etc.

I bet if you came back after 3 months, you’d be no better than average. Your ability to operate with a team, your knowledge of all the builds and quirks of all the other classes, and your muscle memory would all be sluggish and behind.

Perhaps one day the community will prove with finality that the game has no depth and is easy to master. I’m unconvinced that is this day. I am, however, convinced that the competitive elements will come together in time, after sufficient bugs and exploits have been ironed out. Until then, play if it’s fun. Wait if you’d rather. You aren’t paying a sub, and you don’t have to worry about a gear grind, so you can do what you want to do.

@Flamu – Warriors are so weak, die so easily, can’t tank any damage, do no damage, have no utility, terrible class.

Also, thanks for the video. That was a fun watch.

@Mayam – Hidden Pistol doesn’t proc, you use it as an active dodge that does a bit of damage.

@Assassin X – You do not need the abilities on your bars for them to proc from traits. If you do have them on your bars, the traits will not put them on cooldown when they proc. For example, you could use Endure Pain at 50% health, then at 25% health, the trait would proc Endure Pain again, even though it’s on cooldown on your bars.

@Atlas – Thank you for the shining beacon of a post you created in the midst of this sea of disappointing community. My faith in the gaming humanity has been restored somewhat by your demonstration of patience and understanding.

@ryston – Please don’t advertise any unsupported “insider” information about things like patches. People are already reacting excitedly and getting their hopes up about it, and if it doesn’t fit their expectations, they’ll get angry at ANet for something you said and posts with reactions like this one will continue to sprout.

A Warrior can Frenzy/Bull’s Charge/100B/Whirlwind Attack for most of a kill. That isn’t too hard. The kicker is that people figure out how to counter it, so you have to figure out what to do when they know how to beat you.

Same rules apply for Thieves. They can do an easy combo and beat you as long as you don’t know how to beat it. Figure it out, and the Thief has to figure something out themselves.

This is how games evolve. Unfortunately, people tend to think they’re playing optimally at all times, so the other side must be doing something OP because they’re doing everything in their power to not lose. Except they aren’t.

In short, if you have aspirations for a particular top-tier sPvP role, you might want to do more research. If you’re just playing because the game’s fun, Warrior’s a very versatile class that, in my opinion, is loads of fun.

The difficulty I’m referring to is deciding which gaps you want to leave open. If you have a 3rd slot for weapons, you’re freely closing an additional gap at no cost to you. Sure, you have to decide which you have to close, but when you have to leave more open, you spend more time at the drawing board deciding which exactly you want to leave open based on what you’re doing, who you’re doing it with, etc.

The less tools you have, the more specialized your role, and the more team-oriented the game becomes. I’m not saying a 3rd weapon would turn Warriors into the One Ring, but I’d personally be concerned about giving a class that much versatility.

Sure, you’d increase the number of permutations, but I don’t personally think that translates directly into increasing complexity. The most complexity I see is in practicing the muscle memory to use the three weapons.

Don’t get me wrong, I think it’d be fun. I’d just prefer a different mechanic, personally.

Does more damage? Has more defense at the same time? 10x the utility at the same time?

I’m not sure what class you’re playing, but it isn’t Warrior.

Rouncer.7569:

Besides crit is one of those things that loses value the more of it you have in terms of straight dps increases.

Is that still the case when crits proc things like bleed?

I’m not sure that you’ll think your fate has changed, but I love my Warrior.

Hopefully I never have to run a dungeon with the OP, because he’s going to be terrible.

Glorious puns aside, the Hammer is easily my 2nd favorite weapon. I see a lot of talk on the forums about the ability to dodge any of the moves, but people like to talk up their ability to play optimally and dodge everything in the game like pros.

You don’t just use your best abilities in order once you get in range. That’s Bull’s Charge/100B baby-town frolicks. I once approached a player in WvWvW, then started auto-attacking with all of my cooldowns up. In an attempt to get away and dodge my stuns, she rolled twice. I patiently waited, then slammed her to the ground with Backbreaker.

Most of the time, odds are the player is dodging you, not the ability. Plan better, and do better. Don’t blame the weap.

Or do blame the weap. Just don’t be surprised when you find someone eventually who destroys you with it.

I still very much enjoy the choice that two weapons provides. You’re forced to make a tough decision, and in doing so you put extra thought into the game that allows you to better refine your play. I know exactly what I would use in my third slot, and the fact that I wish I had a third slot sometimes makes me hope they never, ever implement one.

Not everyone enjoys the easy route. I like being challenged to think of ways to refine my gameplay that will minimize risk and maximize reward.

It depends on what you enjoy. I personally don a Hammer/Greatsword and work toward busting enemy zerg lines during a stand-off. Most of the time I can get out safely, though every once in a while I’ll get caught out. While pot shots are being traded, I look for openings. If my two survival cooldowns aren’t up, I look for overextenders.

I typically die a couple times every 2-3 hour WvWvW session as an aggressive melee warrior in WvWvW. I’m currently level 70, which does help, but you’d be surprised what sort of results you can get charging into a group. Their first inclination is to back up, and typically that’s enough for your zerg to surge forward. If you catch a few in a few stuns, your team generally annihilates them, since the other team backed up and left them in the open.

However, if you prefer ranged, you can use Longbow to attempt AoE/drop a Fire combination field, or a Rifle for single-target picking off. You can run a more Greatsword-centric build to attempt to Frenzy/100B stragglers/over-extenders. You can use Warhorns to support, Axes to combo with fields for large AoE damage, etc.

You can basically fit yourself just about anywhere depending on your playstyle. Some roles require you to be more observant/careful/smarter than others, but really the World v World is your burrito.

Developers can only do so much at once, especially in the timeframes imposed by management to deploy sets of fixes to continue to iterate on the things that need to be changed.

Though understanding is quite a bit to ask from the forum folk, I suppose, so here’s what I think of every time I see posts like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRTkCHE1sS4

I have a few simple requests that I hope eventually make it in the game:

1. Currently, the only two ways I have found to cancel an ability mid-swing are Escape, which is awkward to press in an active situation, and dodging, which feels like a waste of an evasion. I did not see any “Cancel Action” configurations in the Interface, and I would really like the ability to bind a button that will cancel an animation/ability, put it on its canceled cooldown (3 seconds or so), and let me go about my business.

2. I would love the ability to toggle off the ability queuing system. As I’ve seen others note, trying to use a defensive cooldown spur-of-the-moment can sometimes lead to it being queued up, leading to obviously bad consequences. Being able to trigger abilities during the cast time of other abilities would fix this issue, allowing for quick reaction blocks that do not fall victim to a queue. You could argue that you can be careful enough to avoid the queue, which is potentially true, but I still think the flexibility in the game could potentially lead to more depth.

In short, I think the ability to cancel other abilities manually with a customized button can lead to more mind-games. As it stands, I see a lot of people complain that Hammer abilities are too easy to counter because they’re so obvious. What if you could press ‘c’ in the middle of Backbreaker to cancel it before it goes off? Someone sees it, auto-dodges, but you don’t swing. A few seconds later you use it and they have no dodge, so they’ll need to be wary and use other escapes to try to not get hit at that point.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Qbert reminded me of a thing I might go suggest. I know queueing is useful, especially in rotations for laggy-situations, but I would like the option to cancel any cast with a custom button press (not Escape or using a dodge) or with another ability. If I’m in the middle of BackBreaker, I want to be able to cancel it and use a normal swing. It would trigger a normal 3 second cooldown for being canceled mid swing, but it wouldn’t be wasted. It would also add to mind games.

If it were a checkbox in the interface, that would be fine. I’d just prefer to have more control over when my abilities are used and when I can cancel them.

My concern with this idea is that you’ll hamstring yourself with your ability to adapt to situations. Sure, you might be comfortable just using a Rifle, but you’ll always be at a disadvantage. I’m always trying to improve my gameplay, which includes incorporating weapon transitions to combo abilities from both sets.

However, if you want to have simple fun, then by all means you can give it a shot. My other concern is people will try this, then get frustrated by other classes/complain about imbalance when they’re intentionally hamstringing themselves. I see enough unwarranted OP complaints to shave a cat on these forums that it makes me pensive.

The famed Quadruple Post.

I get it. This is a troll thread.

Move along, nothing to see here.

Redundancy.7325:

Specifically it bothers me that in the rare, legitimate (as in not just because bads let you do it) case that you can actually get your #3 off, it’s often better to not click that ability at all. That just doesn’t seem right.

If using an ability that lets you do 100% damage for 15 seconds is the lesser option, then what would a good option be in that case? What is a situation where it’s better to die immediately than continue to apply pressure/potentially win a point battle/use high-mobility to get to a safer zone for a full rez? Unless it’s clear as day that I’m going to get rallied, I always opt for Vengeance. Always.

Also, if a team is prolonging your life intentionally, you can always trigger Vengeance to be up for at least 15 seconds. This could make you more influential on the battlefield for longer if you are going to die anyway. Consider a team waiting an extra 5 seconds to stomp so you have an 18 second rez timer in sPvP instead of a 3 second timer. In 4 seconds, you can pop Vengeance, and continue to apply pressure. Get them lower for a follow-up attack, keep them from capping a point a bit longer, and you’re guaranteed a death with only a 4 second timer.

I enjoy the ability, and I’d be bummed if they changed it.

The noticeable delay I experience between key press and ability execution changes depending on how much is going on on the screen. This leads me to believe the animation trigger is server-side instead of client-side, and the delay is caused by latency.

If you think your connection to a speedtest mainframe represents your connection to the Guild Wars 2 server you’re playing on, think again. If you don’t think it’s a latency issue, I’d be happy to hear your explanation as to why.

If you’re focusing on Axes, then odds are you’ll be in the thick of it, and if you’re in the thick of it, dedicating to some Toughness/Vitality will be your friends. The only glass cannons you’ll see are those who have escapes (thieves are good at this), those who opportunity-strike (such as when a surge changes directions and there are stragglers), or those who dedicate multiple utilities to burst-survival to get in, cause mayhem, and get out.

If you don’t want to stand around 95% of the fight, focusing on some survivability stats can mean the difference. You’ll still want to get a few survival utilities (Endure Pain comes to mind, and Balanced Stance has served me well as well), but at least you can do some hit-and-runs more frequently than focusing purely on damage.

If you only set bleeds on crit, it really depends on how much you’re critting, which depends on how much you sink into Precision. I would think that a 33% chance to stack 1 bleed per crit isn’t enough for focusing condition damage, so you’ll want the power/high crits instead with your Axes. Naturally, I could be wrong, especially if you’re going with Swords in your off-weapon or something. However, with 10% inc crit damage traited with an Axe MH, I think you’ll find power/precision/crit damage synergizing with your weapon of choice much better than condition damage.

Also, please note that survival stats won’t make you a tank. If you focus half of your stats on survivability, you still need to play smart. Many people think they should be able to tank loads of damage because of their armor, but you can’t, especially in the ZvZs that occur in WvWvW. You will find it helps in smaller-scale fights, and if you escape with a few thousand health every once in a while, you’ll be able to thank your survivability stats.

However, I encourage you to test as much as your Karma allows. As you make more, try stacking the heck out of a few and see how it changes your gameplay. Maybe it’ll make more sense to your style. At the end of the day, choosing stats that fit your gameplay is more important than choosing the stats someone tells you that you should use.

Jogyn.1370:

None of you have provided any kind of verifiable evidence to anything you have said. For or against, No videos, no screen shots nothing.

Just a “trust me dude” I know what I am talking about ie self proclaimed experts. Thread is just marginal whining from obvious bads which have been trying the same tactic for years. (agenda based nerf qq) I for one do not take your word for it and until you provide some actual evidence this whole thread is pointless and should be locked up tight.

Preach!

If you have Short Temper slotted, you get absolutely nothing against classes that don’t have a block or who aren’t specced into blocking.

If you want PvE optimization, you take Berserker’s Power and call it a day. Or you take Powerful Banners to plant in AoE. If you’re concerned about condition removal in something like sPvP, you take Restorative Strength. If you want to be able to dive around in sPvP or WvWvW and take less damage/potentially set up a knockback, you go Death From Above.

Every decision you make in this game makes you sub-optimal in one category or another. You pick and choose what you want based on your playstyle. I go Restorative Strength in sPvP, Death From Above in WvWvW, and Berserker’s Rage in PvE.

Death From Above is part of your tool kit. You use it when it’s needed, and have it handy when it isn’t. The trait is about preparing yourself for certain situations so you can use those situations to your advantage.

I have no idea why you’re fighting so hard to convince anyone that DFA needs to be changed in any way.