Guild Wars 2

Look at that beautiful pie graph, all sliced up nice and evenly.

To the moderator’s defense, the use of bold/underline is already a little blinding, so differing sizes would make it look a little crazy. Also, “Devs vs. Community” makes it sound like they’re actively fighting against us or doing battle with us, so it didn’t really add anything other than dramatic effect (which, these forums could use less drama).

To Defektive’s defense, moderating stylistic choice feels a bit… oppressive. I’m not sure using font features to change size/etc. goes against any forum CoC. I just thought using excessive caps was a thing.

Either way, red posts (I don’t like calling them “devs”, because most everyone who post from ANet on the forum isn’t an actual developer in the true sense of the term) do seem to come in bursts. Perhaps it would ease anxious minds if they just spread the wealth out to a post on some topic every few days to maintain presence.

LieutenantGoogle.7326:

FA is seems to be better with defending keeps and towers when their walls and gates are down, than when they are up 3

That almost wouldn’t surprise me. It turns into a more aggressive fight, player on player, and it seems FA is bloodthirsty for such a thing. It took me all of 5-10 minutes of observation to figure out why people on this server thought YB and TC 2v1 against us, at least in EB. I hadn’t seen it with my own eyes since I usually run with the guild group, but our fine lads and bonnie lasses pick fights every single where.

I tried really hard, but I couldn’t fault them, because it was almost non-stop fighting/fun.

Cheers to the YB and TC over around Umber/Durios/Bravost tonight. Eventually I had to stick more between Bravost and Umber considering TC and YB were both making appearances, but a lot of awesome skirmishes took place regardless. I even had an opportunity to have some more personal time with a Thief seemingly specced more survival-oriented, and it was… a thing. Methinks my tools are not the appropriate tools to tackle such an opponent, but I refuse to give them up. Too much fun.

leman.7682:

I’m surprised that there are still people playing. It’s quite amusing to be honest.

Now I’m going to pour some whisky into glass and play a good game.

Hint: not this one.

Long live sPvP! Cheers!

I’m amused that you get amusement out of people playing a game they enjoy but you don’t.

Enjoy playing the game you like.

How did this thread happen?

Looks like a tasty fight to me.

If you don’t want larger scale combat, do sPvP. WvWvW is about fielding larger forces to take larger-scale objectives, so you’re going to see more players.

The 4 or 5 of you should have been inside that tower, if it’s yours. If you see that large of a group coming at you while you’re assaulting a tower, you should be running. Leading large groups on a wild goose chase can buy time for your server, if they are making plays elsewhere.

Killing isn’t the only measure of usefulness, and most zergs that are comprised of an array of guilds (see: that one) can be herded like sheep. At the very least, you’ll pull a few bloodthirsty ones away from the pack to kill.

Also, there’s no reason to take a death from a large group of players so personally. I’ve been caught in bad positions a large number of times because I both get greedy and want to test the limitations of my ability to escape sticky situations. Sometimes you die to numbers, and it really isn’t a big deal as long as you take what you learned and adapt accordingly the next time around.

kanikani.2430:

I want to put a question out there for all severs, no bias just a questions.

How would you feel if we had this same match up next week?

Personal opinions and server based.

I’d feel great about it. I have fun every single time I log in, regardless of whether we find TC to fight or YB.

pyrotikk.4620:

One button wonders have no place in PvP, let alone ‘competitive’ PvP.

I dare you to roll a warrior and just press 100B on people. Be sure to take video and let us know the results.

Akumu.7238:

I have hundreds of players in my guild. The poor ones do WvW, the rich ones don’t(or not as dedicated).

How many times have you heard some one say, “If I had his money I could do things my way?” But little they know that it’s so hard to find one rich man in ten with a satisfied mind.

Navzar.2938:

Besides, the impractical video build will probably be adapted to be more viable than its current version, with reduced damage of course. The current example is really just the same as practicing high numbers on a light armor golem, so it doesn’t prove much as far as having an equal burst build (ride the shock aura/RTL doesn’t make up for the glass).

The main problem here is with the weak “evidence” about how is as good at bursting.

Fortunately, the poster of said video did a similar thing with an apparently more hot-join viable build to someone who was apparently playing:

Cosmic Teapot.9162:

That video was just me messing around. It is completely impractical simply because it lacks points in arcana which we’re pigeonholed into. Here’s a video of me using a similar combo with my hot join glass cannon build 20 30 0 0 20/scholar/zerker. It’s against a warrior so it is relevant to this subforum (sort of).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xi-8NymXOtU

It looks pretty good at bursting to me. As well as finishing freely and subsequently escaping.

Plus, the guy running into his obvious demise at the end is giggle-worthy.

Braxxus.2904:

My god, thank you for getting it!

Gives me hope.

This is probably one of those scenarios where many of us understand the point, but since we understand it, we don’t feel compelled to post. Meanwhile, those who misunderstand or disagree (for some reason) try to bring up counter-points.

My favorite part though is when people try to justify it for all of the reasons that we’ve said over and over again about 100B-centric warriors. Makes me all warm inside.

Sunspots.9861:

It’s interesting to me that when yaks bend came in third place last week they didn’t make excuses and they worked with what they had to at least hold what they could, protect their homelands, and be as disruptive a force as they could be.

Far from dying because of it, I think we can all agree they are even stronger now, and they haven’t even had to adjust their working strat that much.

FA is the classic fair weather server and while I don’t blame the rank and file soldier out there trying everyday, I think the bulk of the responsibility falls on the FA guilds themselves that are either making poor decisions or not communicating them. Perhaps another trip down tier will give you a chance to veer away from the attack, attack all day long and spend more time protecting.

At this point, it might be too late. It will certainly be interesting to see next week if the map is nothing but TC and an even stronger yaks.

FA will need to adapt in order to accommodate the strategies of their opponents, but I think there are more variables at play than you’re giving the situation credit. When Yak’s landed in 3rd, did they have to drop a tier in order to modify their strategies? What if the worlds in T4 don’t play in a similar fashion, and the “attack, attack all day long” achieves overwhelming victory?

Typically, an interesting and worthwhile competition involves an evolution of strategy, with an ebb and flow of who wins and who loses. One side does something that another isn’t prepared for, wins, and then the other side comes back and fixes their problems, forcing the previous winner to now figure out how to come out on top again. The flaws in one’s strategy are only made apparent after the opponent takes advantage of them.

We’ll see what the future has in store for FA. However, instead of conforming, I’d rather see innovative new aggressive strategies be devised to see if we can really play to our strengths more effectively than in the past. Innovation can only take place when we have the marbles to test new tactics.

My purpose in WvWvW is to fight people, laugh with my team about the awesome fights going down, then hop on here and mention the awesomeness of the fights that went down to the other servers. Almost like pick-up basketball with a group of friends, only we can’t joke around with the other team until later.

Every time incentives are mentioned as a necessity for PvP, my heart frowns.

Ultravalefor.5038:

What’s the point of posting your name and guild? My name is Tarnished Coast Invader/Defender, that guy you’re yelling at is Yak’s Bend Invader/Defender.

What more do you need, real names are for if you want to send us annoying tells or love letters or something. (and can’t you already do that with our usernames which we use to post… Here?)

It’s just an additional layer of personal accountability, if not to people on other servers, than to people on your own. It’s actually kind of cool when people say hey because they recognize you from the forums and see your character in-game.

I hope people realize that Jumping Puzzles being a nice consistent form of Badge income in WvWvW is a sign that something is probably amiss.

Fel.8195:

TC had actually just taken the keep. Your group was able to get up on the inner keep wall just prior to us capping it, and Yak’s had a group on the north inner gate as soon as we capped it. Yak’s busted in, and quickly pressed us at the Keep Lord. We purposely pushed Yak’s towards the FA group to wipe them. After Yak’s was cleared, we proceeded to push the FA group out of the inner keep.

Oh I’m well aware of all the deets, I was just looking to casually set up a joke about 2v1, because I’d rather laugh at it than frown at it. Our group from FA was just a wee bit late in contesting the keep, otherwise it would have been a 3-way at the lord. I don’t think I was above half health for about 5 straight minutes as we were going back and forth on top of that wall. Fight was fun.

Xavi.6591:

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

This week has made it obvious, we simply do not have the population necessary to compete at this tier.

Are you kidding? Yak’s has the least population out of all 3 servers and the smallest off-peak population as well. As a matter of fact, Yak’s is playing with ~400 PvP’ers less than last week. But we never give up.

Where do you find numbers like that? I’d love to have more statistics about WvWvW, but I haven’t seen anything anywhere.

More awesome fights tonight in YBBL. Even after ULTD broke for the night (basically guaranteed fun when we romp around as a group), there was some fun little back-and-forth between FA spawn and Bluelake.

Cheers to good times, both TC and YB.

EDIT – Also, at one point, I believe we were fighting YB who were down on the ground within the walls of Inner Bay, while we were up. TC came behind them and wiped them while they were shooting at us. I just wanted to thank TC for honoring the terms of our new 2v1 alliance against YB.

If you don’t perform organized WvWvW, your badge rate will definitely suffer. If you do, and you’re the wrong class/don’t man any siege, it will also suffer. I run with Daed, and if I get 20 badges in a night I feel accomplished. Most of my bags drop behind enemy lines, and I often don’t go around looking for them before we’re off to another objective.

However, as Daed also mentions, gold isn’t all that difficult to come by, necessarily. Further, you really don’t need exotics. Rare armor/weaps and green jewelry is enough to be more than useful as an 80 in WvWvW. Hell, I still sport green jewelry.

This MMO provides you the opportunity to be competitive without being at the max gear level. Grinding up to the tip top is a player choice, not a game requirement.

Lifelike.5862:

Actually, that combo is fairly impractical, easily countered, and in general elementalists need to sacrifice a lot more to achieve what a warrior can achieve and less.

Even fully specced for glass cannon instagib rifle, warriors are a lot tankier than Elementalists. They can throw out their combo from a lot further away, and can use Frenzy to cover for the long channel time of Kill Shot. Even without Kill shot, they still do very respectable damage with volley, and they have the luxury of doing all this from the top of a tower, which is actually practical during seiges. Thanks to piercing rifle shots, they can also take out a sufficient chunk of a zerg without exposing themselves to retalliation.

Come on, it’s not rocket science.

Shooting into a zerg almost inevitably leads to that zerg just picking the person right back up, if they have any idea what they’re doing.

As far as the difference between a full glass cannon Warrior and Elementalist, my hammer sees basically no difference. If anything, weapons provide a glass cannon warrior much less utility to get away from me, while it seems like an Ele could at least do something.

But they both usually die in a Hammer rotation, so it makes no nevermind to me.

Nethril.7413:

sorry, i un-hijacked this thread and took it to PM’s…

No problem. Two people who played a MUD 20 years ago having a chance meeting in another game is totally adorbs, imo. What are the forums for if not to build and reinforce community?

Also, seeing FABL totally blue makes me happy. We definitely need to adjust to our opponents in order to get back in the fight.

As a note, I believe I’ll be traveling for work next week and will therefore be unable to participate in any tourney matches then. The bane of my unpredictable schedule.

Perhaps for the US I could be included as an alternate, and if anyone ever sees me on and wants to do, know I’m a willing body to practice.

Cheers.

@Jasher: Correct, they weren’t very good.

Really fun fights tonight around YBBL. All sorts of 3-sided skirmishes going on in the Bay, and entertainment was abound in Longview earlier in the night.

Cheers, folks.

Khyron.8735:

They should randomize the matchups more. We’re facing each other again and probably will next week too. It lets animosity build. Specific players and guilds get singled out. Hell, someone on EB last night was offering 20s per screenshot confirmed kill on a specific guild.

If you randomize match-ups, you’ll get uneven weeks that will be extremely boring. The whole point of this system is to make sure that WvWvW is as interesting as possible.

And so what about “animosity”? To be quite honest, I wish there were more friendly rivalries that I could recognize in-game and have fun with. Anonymity in PvP is unfortunate. Some of the most MMO PvP fun I’ve ever had was Vanilla WoW in the 30-40 or 40-50 bracket. I’d see the same people again and again, recognize their strengths/weaknesses, and we’d start veering off to fight each other to see who could come out on top. Once they introduce battlegroups and queues, there were no longer any faces, just classes that you farmed for honor.

If WvWvW became personal, I’d be ultra happy. If people hunted me down in WvWvW, I’d be ultra happy. If a screenshot of me dead shows up on these forums (happens frequently when I’m not running with a guild group), I’ll be ultra happy. I want to laugh as I dive off a wall and gun for a particular person. I want to laugh as I see a group specifically converge on me in a fight.

Competition doesn’t have to be filled with excuses and mindless boasting about exploits. I want to know who I can personally congratulate for a battle well-fought, win or lose. The more I think about it, the happier I get that I get to see the same groups for multiple weeks running.

There will always be those trying to spoil the mood with mudslinging. Ignore them. If we’re in this for multiple weeks, let’s build a positive community around it and have some fun for a change.

Braxxus.2904:

I think I might have picked Cog out of the crowd tonight finally… Not sure though, so many charr guardians sporting hammers and greatswords that in the chaos of the umber/durios war going on before our YB numbers dropped to kitten again (/sadface) that I didn’t really get to tab through them all to spot the warrior.

I was only on for a few hours (9 – 11 EST maybe?), but if hiding a helm is a property of the char, I’m the black charr with yellow hair and spiked shoulders. Also, odds are I’m either diving on top of your group, or looking for an opportunity to dive on top of your group, so I probably wouldn’t be too difficult to spot.

A fun fight was had inside Durios this morning as well. Death From Above is potentially my favorite Warrior thing at this point.

Ekove.4586:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Ekove.4586:

I have had a lot of respect for FA on the battlefield, but it’s disappointing how they keep bringing up the 2v1 argument in every matchup….I know that “most of the people who go on the forums go there to whine”, so I shouldn’t be generalizing. But come on, the game is old enough for most of you to figure out simple WvW mechanics and why it seems like a 2v1 in some situations..

FA isn’t bringing up any 2v1 argument. A few players who happen to be on FA are bringing it up because of unjustified and illogical reasons.

There’s a distinction, and those of us on FA who respect strategy would appreciate it if you recognized it moving forward.

I completely understand and let me clarify, I do not think that’s the mentality of FA in general, I just wish we could have this discussion with less of those 2v1 arguments. It has been overall awesome to fight FA and TC otherwise.

Thanks for being awesome. Trust me when I say I wish the discussion had less 2v1 arguments as well. The fights have been wonderful.

Also, thanks for clarifying Spaceman. I hadn’t realized it was 200+.

I wish I could put names to in-game faces, just for fun. Oh well. I had a joyous time fighting around EB earlier in the evening. Umberglade/Durios is quite the hot-spot.

Ekove.4586:

I have had a lot of respect for FA on the battlefield, but it’s disappointing how they keep bringing up the 2v1 argument in every matchup….I know that “most of the people who go on the forums go there to whine”, so I shouldn’t be generalizing. But come on, the game is old enough for most of you to figure out simple WvW mechanics and why it seems like a 2v1 in some situations..

FA isn’t bringing up any 2v1 argument. A few players who happen to be on FA are bringing it up because of unjustified and illogical reasons.

There’s a distinction, and those of us on FA who respect strategy would appreciate it if you recognized it moving forward.

Also, word on the street is 80 golems were brought to bear against a boiling pot. Confirm/Deny?

I watched TC take one of Yak’s supply camps from afar, then I watched Yak’s push them back into the supply camp and fight them.

So I guess… debunked? Lol?

I haven’t decided, but I might make it my purpose in life to come fight with any FA player who decides to complain about other worlds teaming up. It’s getting old, and they might as well fight them in-game where it might help our cause.

(Note: I’m from FA. Sometimes people miss signatures).

Nut.4713:

After complaining endlessly last week in the match up thread, that wasn’t enough. There is now a thread devoted entirely to whining from FA. I’m speechless.

There are as many of us from FA supporting a strategy that involves #1 keeping #2 down, even if it means sometimes assisting #3 (coordinated or not) as there are complaining about it. If you don’t see them, it’s because you choose not to see them.

This thread is devoted entirely to whining from BronzeDealer. He doesn’t represent FA.

I’m US, and my potential availability is the following (Central Standard Time, PM):

M (8-12), Th (8-12), Sa (8-1), Su (8 – 12)

I don’t know what you would expect to happen in either of those scenarios.

BronzeDealer.9857:

yes it was fun for u and ur allies but no for us wha fun was there for us in having to deal with 2x the threat in our lands and none in urs. and how was it even plz explain cuz from wha i saw there was nothing even about the matter.

This is my final post in this thread, as the first was to illustrate that not everyone in Fort Aspenwood is like the OP, nor shares his views, since generalization seems to be a problem on these forums.

I’m on Fort Aspenwood.

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with the leading world using a situation where the 2nd-place world is pushing the 3rd-place world to try to set the 2nd-place world back and extend their advantage in the match.

The fights were extremely fun, and the match was surprisingly even.

I’d love to get in on this just to buff up on my 1v1 and see what these other dueling builds are all about. Unfortunately, my availability is the most sporadic thing in the universe, and when I do find time to log in, I usually tend to dive into WvWvW with ye olde guild.

I’d like to keep an eye on how this progresses. Kudos for setting it up.

EDIT – I meant to also reply to comments/thoughts like this:

There’s a problem with this. 1v1 in this game is not balanced at all. Two builds will rise above all others: Mesmer condi build, and d/d ele. These are the two best 1v1 builds in the game, and most builds don’t even come close to killing them.

The absolute best way for people to evolve against certain builds is to throw themselves at it and test in a controlled environment. I’d even go as far as saying dueling with a support build can be a good learning experience, with repeated attempts at surviving as long as possible/learning to avoid burst rotations/etc.

Regardless of whether or not the game’s balanced for 1v1 encounters in a competitive level, this sort of exercise is healthy, in my opinion.

The big pink circle is just a large “Earthshaker/100B here” sign.

No, the next patch will not magically make GW2 an e-sport. Even if all of the e-sports infrastructure was released, it still wouldn’t make the game an e-sport. That would take time to develop.

I took a look back to figure out why I mentioned flashiness, and I believe it was a slight misinterpretation of comments on the first page about Warrior abilities being less “interesting”, and lacking “complexity”. I took that more to mean that they weren’t as “cool” as some of the Lightning Hammer abilities, when in fact it seems more a microcosmic example of the class as a whole being more straight-forward in its mechanics.

My biggest hang-up is that I think the Lightning Hammer might have a cool ability (stun field), but I have a difficult time caring about a blind that isn’t even on-demand, an (apparently) lack-luster AoE, a gap closer that doesn’t even stun on only a 4 second shorter cooldown, and a banish when I’m trying to be up in their face anyway.

I also simply don’t agree with the auto-attack requiring a condition. They might have set a general precedent with the other weapons, but I remember being happy when I saw the damage coefficients didn’t take a hit because of a few stacks of some condition I didn’t care much about. If I want to apply Weakness, I’ll use Fierce Blow anyway. In my in-game situations, I’ve never once said “I wish my hammer applied a condition with its auto-attack”. But that’s just me.

As far as frustration getting in the way, it happens. These forums can be insane, and my personal therapy is to type out at least part of a response while I’m “in the moment”, realize half-way through that it’s a worthless topic and the response will go nowhere, then close the tab and move on with my day. The main reason I have kept posting on this thread in particular is because I couldn’t for the life of me figure out what the big deal was. “The elementalist hammer has a blind on its auto and the warrior hammer has nothing” is an argument that absolutely reeks of something else being the actual problem (such as class complexity as a whole being lackluster for some folks), so I had to pry.

Gotcha. So a blast finisher at the end of 1.5 seconds and landing 3 autos on someone, and removing a self root, and we could compare the Warrior hammer with the Elementalist hammer without issue. The other bits I assume are more for balance, and do not effect the comparison (perhaps they do).

Also, Earthshaker takes the same amount of time to actually execute whether you use it at full range or point blank. At point blank, you hover for the .75 seconds, and at max range you go flying through the air. Perhaps one is more of a visual cue than the other, but it could also be that most hammer warriors are obvious and broadcast their intentions (leading off with Earthshaker once in range, using Backbreaker to try to initiate a combo, etc.).

However, this thread isn’t specifically about warrior hammer balance issues, so I’ll stop there. I just wanted to try to dig to the root of what changes needed to be made to make the concern between hammers moot from a warrior’s perspective.

Before I pray to all the gods in all the heavens that this thread get nuked from orbit, I’ll try one more avenue:

How should the warrior hammer be changed given the context of this thread to make it OK when compared to the elementalist hammer? Following that, does that satisfactorily change the warrior hammer enough to make it a viable option for top-tier competitive PvP given the assumption that it is not already viable because it is in need of buffs as seen when compared to the elementalist hammer (please correct me if in fact it is argued that the elementalist hammer needs nerfs)? If not, then why aren’t we having that discussion instead of this one?

I’m trying to give this thread the benefit of the doubt in that it desires some meaningful outcome, but I can’t for the life of me see what that is at the moment.

Braxxus.2904:

It’s about the utility and abilities themselves.

Is it? I thought it was “to hell with the utility”? You yelled at everyone when they brought up utility, saying it was about the auto’s finisher not having a blast effect or whatever. Now is it actually about the utility and sum of the abilities? Because I’d still take a Warrior hammer over an Ele one.

It’s really beginning to sound like people are bored and just want to argue a point for the sake of arguing it.

Radiant.5729:

Perhaps its easier to just tell you – go and report those bots And get them out of the water. Then you wouldn’t have everyone else forming misunderstandings, right Sir? Of course whatever that guild of bots’ doing is not representative of all FA and I believe a large proportion of you do believe in integrity and honest action. I am sorry my post poked something in you; nonetheless not a calling out but a observation.

We have great fights so far, never denied that. So, if you could, good Sir, report those bots.

I would love to report the bots, but typically when I log in and see my guild all in WvWvW, I join them in whatever they are doing, which is usually trying to help win our world the match. If I ever see any bots anywhere, I’ll report them on sight.

We can only do so much. In the meantime, feel free to farm the hell out of them. Also, can you report them as well? I’ve never tried to report someone on the opposing side.

You know what else is unbalanced? Teleporting.

Motion to remove shadowstepping from Thieves.

It’s the same guy who complained in the Warrior forums about Warriors not getting nerfed in the last patch.

Just move along, this thread’s going nowhere.

I don’t think this is the place to be discussing intra-world guild issues. If you think it’s a large issue, you can always set up a meeting of the minds to hash it out on someone’s voice/chat server/channel.

This thread has been filled with awesome comments about fun fights that have happened. Let’s keep it positive, or at least on-topic. I’m looking forward to hunting down some fun fights over the next few days wherever I can find them (considering the holidays).

Until they have custom servers, it’ll be more difficult to organize anything. It doesn’t mean you can’t pop into an empty server and have fun/organize whatever, but it does put a damper on it.

Once they have custom servers, it should be what people need to do whatever they want. Third-party tournaments/leagues, custom pub servers, you name it. That’ll be more akin to something like CS.

Also, Counter-Strike was developed as a mod to Half-Life 1, which was apparently a heavily modified version of the Quake engine. Source was developed for Half-Life 2, which introduced Counter-Strike: Source (and also the death of logical flashbangs). Using the phrase “open source” to reference the original Counter-Strike is entirely mis-informed, especially since Valve purchased the rights to the mod back in 2000.

Also, I started playing around v1.3’s release in 2001. I’ve been a member on Steam since over 9 years ago. This whole 6-digit ID thing is potentially the most ridiculous chest-puffing metric I’ve ever seen, as I’m pretty sure CS1.6 was a general disappointment anyway. To emphasize saying you played “MANY MANY” years ago is insane to me, as I started multiple years before you, and I know there are those who started even before me.

So relax.

At the end of the day, there’s no reason not to try to organize your own competition if you enjoy the game. If you don’t enjoy the game, ask yourself what you’re doing here, because you aren’t going to suddenly support yourself financially off of GW2. If you can’t answer, maybe you should look for ways to actually have fun (perhaps organizing a competitive league?) or leave and wait for the features to be developed. You aren’t paying a sub. You most likely aren’t going to be some hugely popular e-star in GW2. Have fun now, or have fun later.

But there’s no reason to try to drag down a thread simply because you desire to be argumentative.

Messe.8759:

I think the overall message here is that Warriors are fun in small chunks as an alt, but maining one can be mind-numbingly boring

Depends on what you want out of the game. I’ve been maining one for weeks, and haven’t even come close to considering switching to anything else. It’s too much melee fun.

Signet of Rage is a passive? Have you read the passive? You must go back and read it, then understand it’s awful and the active is the greatest thing ever.

Also, Warrior is apparently lackluster in top-tier structured, competitive PvP. In all other PvP, it’s fine in various builds (casual sPvP, WvWvW).

Hammer/Greatsword, for me, is overwhelmingly fun. CC combos on a fairly short cooldown, high mobility, etc. I don’t use Frenzy, but I still use Bull’s Charge for mobility.

It just happened that the GS was high-mobility/high-damage, and those things are coveted, especially in PvP environments. I wouldn’t be surprised if GS gets toned down some in one of those departments (would hope damage, as I use it more for mobility), but we’ll see.

You can use a GS and not be “just another GS warrior”.