Guild Wars 2

Defektive.7283:

I’ve actually been running a GS/Hammer build in tPvP and having a lot of success. Pretty sure for now on my stream is going to be featuring this style of PvP.

GS/Hammer has been my squeeze for weeks. Welcome to the pain train.

Thanks for the clip. I’m not sure why he blinked there in the first place, but it was a well-timed follow-up Bull’s Charge. I’m always pensive about Bull’s Charge after Blink considering the 300 range difference (and the more expansive areas that fights tend to happen in for WvWvW), but it would have been awesome to watch you catch him with it. Fi and kitten @ ledges.

I do agree that’s the route to take, and it’s the route I try to take. I think I would rank them more difficult if only because of one single fight I had recently against another Mesmer in WvWvW (gear element felt negligible since he was 80 and looked fancy, while I’m 80 and have Berserker’s exotic armor/weaps). We sparred for a good 70-80 seconds before some other members from my world came and forced him to flee. I was admittedly losing, but I wasn’t close to dead yet.

Spec also weighs into lists like this, as I’m built to be the control spearhead into an enemy zerg/group. I can see why Mesmer’s easier on your list, but it would still take a more difficult position on mine.

Defektive.7283:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Defektive.7283:

I hope they never. EVER. Bring MOBA into this game. I absolutely hate MOBA.

And then if they forced it on me in tPvP I’d just flip out and leave. Can’t stand that stuff.

I can’t see them ever forcing MOBA-style on tPvP in GW2. There are to many intricacies to DotA-like games (BLC is a separate entity, and happens to be my favorite MOBA) that you can’t quite replicate in a game like GW2. It would most assuredly be for fun.

And since it’s for fun, you can just not play them. These sorts of extra game modes are the spice that will keep more casual players interested in the game to support the competitive scene if/when it comes to pass. I’d be careful about hating them too hard.

If I could hate them more. I would. Its my least favorite game genre, right next to Nascar racing sims.

It’s getting off-topic, but there has to be a story behind this vehement hate, and I wish I knew it. Right now, DotA 2 is easily my favorite game to spectate for a variety of reasons, though I can’t stand LoL. Playing, of course, is a horse of a different color, but I still find it fun to dabble with friends every once in a while.

Yeah, I do try to keep it paced. It isn’t like I really go down easily either, their survivability is just massive. Also, for some reason that Mesmer seemed to blow Phase Retreat and Decoy in useless situations, then blinked away from your auto-attacks straight into an easy Frenzy combo. I agree that it’s the right solution, but I guess I don’t remember the cooldown-happy Mesmers that aren’t difficult to kill, just the ones who stay calm and settle in for the long haul.

Also, I don’t think that Mesmer rooted you once before Blurred Frenzy. It looks like maybe you blocked the first Immo, but you had been blocking for multiple seconds, so that’s a whoopsie on his part if so.

Defektive.7283:

I hope they never. EVER. Bring MOBA into this game. I absolutely hate MOBA.

And then if they forced it on me in tPvP I’d just flip out and leave. Can’t stand that stuff.

I can’t see them ever forcing MOBA-style on tPvP in GW2. There are to many intricacies to DotA-like games (BLC is a separate entity, and happens to be my favorite MOBA) that you can’t quite replicate in a game like GW2. It would most assuredly be for fun.

And since it’s for fun, you can just not play them. These sorts of extra game modes are the spice that will keep more casual players interested in the game to support the competitive scene if/when it comes to pass. I’d be careful about hating them too hard.

How do you make it uninterruptible? Give the Warrior 1 second of Stability? Invulnerability? It’s just the nature of the game.

When you’re interrupted in PvE, what interrupts you? Could you jump to the side of it to catch mobs in the damage/stun without just jumping on top of them? Could you use other abilities to try to get the interrupts on CD before using ES? I’m sure we can figure out a way to make it work in PvE, because I highly doubt this’ll be addressed as you’d like.

Hilariously, Warriors are somehow the easiest to kill, probably because so many seem to just have no idea how to play. Combine that with skills that have no real amount of smoke and mirrors, and you just have a sore thumb waiting to be killed.

Defektive, I’m not sure how Mesmers are so high on your easy chain, unless you catch one in Frenzy after making him use all of his escapes. That, or I just have bad luck and find only survivability-based vit/tough Mesmers in my adventures.

If you want legitimate suggestions, you’ll have to give us some idea as to what you want. Team-based? 1v1? What kind of perspective? Mechanics you enjoy?

Otherwise, people will just talk about the game they wish they were playing but aren’t for some reason.

A period of time (albeit small) passes between using the ability and the stun effect. Your character is traveling a distance through the air, and in that half-second or so, you’re vulnerable to instants/predicted interrupts. When NPCs have instant interrupt abilities, the problem is exacerbated, but I use a hammer all the time in PvP and have absolutely no problems with it being interruptible.

I personally would have no problems if people saw my name. In fact, I would much prefer it.

@Samhayn: You haven’t sold me on human nature, but as much as I think that’s a potentially really interesting topic, it starts to get off-topic very quickly. Games are games though, and if one type of game trains you to expect some sort of reward for playing, then we’re back to conditioning as the issue.

Anyway, more custom WvWvW gear or titles would be cool. Maybe custom skins for siege weapons that you/your guild put down, though I have no idea how that would work.

I’ve also wondered why they don’t show enemy names in WvWvW. Was that ever explained? Perhaps the information packets to retrieve/request that information creates more lag than it’s worth? I always thought it’d be cool to recognize names on servers, since you can’t really go by color of gear (though perhaps style of gear might work…ish).

The fact that someone could question its usefulness completely boggles my mind. It does everything I could ever want, and I can use it in all sorts of situations to do things I probably shouldn’t be able to do. My current favorite use is nullifying any and all Blurred Frenzies from Mesmers, as WW breaks the immobilize (traited), dodges the damage, and potentially does damage to the surrounding illusions.

It’s my second favorite Warrior ability, out of all the Warrior abilities, right behind Earthshaker and way ahead of 3rd place.

I need 500 Badges of Honor for the Legendary I’m casually going for. You could always do that.

EDIT – I also disagree that human nature applied to video games has anything to do with it. It’s conditioning from other video games constantly hanging a new shiny in front of us that makes us expect a new shiny for doing anything anymore.

Mario never rewarded me with new skins, or better boots to jump higher. He was just Mario, and those games actually ended completely.

I’m not opposed to titles, skins, etc. Those things are fine. However, entitlement is cultural, not biological.

Quenta.2978:

Fun fights last night.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBW3eoDRO2g

Stacks of players look like such tasty morsels.

Arani.9057:

Cogbyrn.7283:

combined with the NON-Buff cap

I’m pretty sure people here have said buffs cap at 5 per pulse as well. Can anyone prove either way, or are we just going to continue to shout at each other?

shouts and heals do not cap at 5 people example.

That isn’t proof. Does anyone have actual proof? Once?

combined with the NON-Buff cap

I’m pretty sure people here have said buffs cap at 5 per pulse as well. Can anyone prove either way, or are we just going to continue to shout at each other?

Azariah.8420:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Please leave “real life” out of discussions about balance in a fantastical video game. There should also be collision detection, siege weapons should take hours to build by a large number of people, everything should do a whole lot more damage, your character should only have one life, etc. etc. etc.

as for that little tidbit, the term real life was more in a reference to a thing called physics which is kind of integral to video games(and real life incidentally), you should check it out

The ensuing argument your anger is trying to create would be a gargantuan waste of time, and I wanted to make sure you know that I’m not biting.

Feel free to think you’ve won.

At the end of the day, I don’t see a problem with turtling yet. I mainly see anger at dying to a stack of players, which really just boils down to dying in general. People get mad when they lose, and it’s almost never their fault while the other players are almost always terrible and shouldn’t have won if not for “gimmicks”.

I’m still excited to stumble on a turtle somewhere when I have time. Can’t wait to dive right on top of it.

Please leave “real life” out of discussions about balance in a fantastical video game. There should also be collision detection, siege weapons should take hours to build by a large number of people, everything should do a whole lot more damage, your character should only have one life, etc. etc. etc.

Vorpal.4683:

eCheese.8240:

People talk about stack fighting as though it is some sort of deplorable tactic… It takes a lot of coordination to move your stack all at once, etc.

Listen. The bots in frostgorge sound move as a stack. Stacking up takes no skill, effort, or coordination at all. When bots that are incapable of mimicing any but the most basic elements of actual player behavior can pull something off, you really shouldn’t try to claim it’s some complicated bit of brilliant and clever playing.

Again, I don’t blame people who use it. That’s how the game works currently. Just please don’t insult our intelligence by holding it up as an example of really rich and skilled play that makes the meta game that much better.

I don’t necessarily think stacking is overly difficult, but it would actually be much easier to move a bot stack than a human stack.

I’m hoping I come across a stack sometime soon. I want to play with it.

I keep seeing dividends from my time spent on my Warrior. I accomplish exactly the sort of melee aggression that I was hoping to accomplish as a Warrior, surviving more reckless charges each day.

I will also note that other Warriors seem to be my easiest kill. I think too many people are lost in the simplicity of the moves themselves and lose sight of using them properly depending on what you’re fighting.

Oh well. Fixes are still in order (can’t wait for Fast Hands to not get me killed every once in a while), but it really seems like top-tier tPvP is the only potential place where the class might need solid tweaks, based solely on what I’ve seen/read. I have too much fun in WvWvW to do much sPvP.

Rhyis.7058:

Vorpal.4683:

I kind of feel like if your entire zerg stacks up in one spot and nobody notices or deals with incoming pbaoe enemies, you deserve to be wiped quickly.

That said, that wouldn’t work at all with GW2’s current culling issues, which makes enemies virtually invisible until the fight is already decided.

I don’t know how GW2’s realm v realm engine is less good than DAOC’s or WAR’s.

Culling doesn’t matter when you could pull every enemy within a 100 ft radius to a single location, stun every single one of them for 5 seconds, then kill them all long before those 5 seconds are up. Regardless of how many enemies there were. That’s how WAR was played. Whoever got the pull/stun off first, won. Speaking as a person who used that tactic pretty much exclusively, the design was absolutely kitten and I promise you do not want this game like that.

I’ve been daydreaming of 1 Guardian followed by a train of Earthshaking hammer warriors squishing an infinite number of people for several minutes now.

If I could create my own instance of the game, I’d make this change to see this at least once before I die.

Personally, I think the stack is hilarious. The pinnacle of WvW organized group tactics?

Hardly.

Can you provide some sort of proof other than anecdotal? Some of us follow the competitive scene without actively participating in it.

I’ve seen zergs and skill on every server. It’s easier to see zergs when fairweather WvWvW players fill every zone when their server is ahead, while other servers have only their more dedicated (and in my opinion, more likely skilled) groups joining while behind.

Remember that not all of us who are on the side with more players get our jollies on swarming over the enemy. If I’m in a group that outnumbers, it’s just business. If I see an enemy who isn’t 80 yet, it’s just business. I get my rise when I’m outnumbered, or in an even fight.

At the end of the day, the only thing that matters to me is the good fight, and the hard dive.

I’ll see you all out there.

@Crimson: Very cool video. The power of coordination proves itself time and time again in WvWvW, and this pleases me.

However, as a Hammer warrior, I spent the whole video wishing I could dive on top of that stack.

As a data point, I play more aggressively than just about anyone else I’ve seen in this game, and not once have I thought “Hmmm, I might die. Better stay on this wall instead of leaping down into the middle of 10 of them to watch them get knocked away. Wouldn’t want to lose a few silvers.”

Ninein.4782:

Cogbyrn.7283:

http://mos.millenium.org/matchups#NA is back up so we can see updates.

That site is intensely interesting to me. The very top match-up is relatively close, the bottom two are relatively close, 2 and 3 are insane blowouts, while 4, 5, and 6 are strong wins. Data like that intrigues me. I wish I could sit in on ANet’s analysis of what’s going on.

What you see in the middle is population imbalance. With the free server transfers, things are in flux in the middle. The top and the bottom well, it’s all feast or all famine so they’re balanced.

Right, so theoretically, the matchmaking system is still in progress. Unfortunately, if there are certain design aspects that need to be addressed, they’ll need to wait some weeks yet before having enough data to support any design changes.

Basically getting back to the idea that week-long matches before free server transfers were removed causing setbacks. I’ll be interested to see how it progresses over the next set of weeks.

http://mos.millenium.org/matchups#NA is back up so we can see updates.

That site is intensely interesting to me. The very top match-up is relatively close, the bottom two are relatively close, 2 and 3 are insane blowouts, while 4, 5, and 6 are strong wins. Data like that intrigues me. I wish I could sit in on ANet’s analysis of what’s going on.

I’m familiar with “No Hope Syndrome” as well, I just forgot to elaborate that point. My idea at the end of my long post was an attempt at thinking about how to solve this particular problem. People seem to take losing very personally, as well as dying to zergs.

It’s an interesting psychological problem, and I’m curious to see what plans they have to address it, if any yet.

Did they change AB such that the 10 seconds of channeling on the node actually instantly caps? Last I played, it neutralized it, and you had to wait a significant amount of time before it was yours.

Regardless, this conversation is starting to nitpick about a game with wildly different mechanics. Stealth balance for WoW isn’t close to comparable to that for GW2.

Vorpal.4683:

As a mechanic of generating good close matches where any server has a chance of being #1 in points, their match making system has been a complete failure.

Hasn’t the failure been with free transfers? How could a matchmaking system possibly accommodate for mass transfers around servers after it collects data on the performance of each server?

I’m curious what they could do to try to reduce “No Hope Syndrome”. I really wish I’d been a fly on the wall for ANet’s internal discussions regarding WvWvW, because I don’t think they had enough cynicism in the design phase. If anyone’s played 3-player A Game of Thrones: The Board Game, you’ll know that if one player is stubborn about a position, the whole game suffers because it means another player will have free reign. For example, if Green has all keeps and everything north of them, let’s say Red and Blue dedicate their forces to taking Bay and Hills. In a perfect world, Green could potentially split, man siege, and have two good fights. However, odds are a zerg would dedicate to one side.

Now we have one keep that’s more or less easy pickins, and another that won’t go down. If Blue’s keep won’t go down, where would they go? Probably to Red. Red might have time to take the keep, but now they need to fight Blue. Meanwhile, Green can go take the keep they lost back if Red doesn’t handle the force distribution properly, and especially if they don’t have time to get siege up.

Even if Blue and Red are in an “alliance”, Blue’s going to be frustrated because Red is gaining ground. Shouldn’t an alliance be mutually beneficial? The leadership/coordination to get Red to go help Blue take the other keep is staggering to imagine.

That isn’t to say it can’t be done, and maybe eventually strong enough leaders will develop that create a complex strategic environment like that where alliances mean something. That would be a wonderful day. Until that day, the slippery slope is quite slippery, and NHS takes root very, very early.

The only idea I have regarding WvWvW is to maybe make the first set of points acquired mean more, while gaining more of the map ends up meaning less. If the score is 100/100/500 (I know points don’t add up to 700, but close enough), perhaps scaling could make it something like 200/200/400. Taking as much as possible still has merit, but it doesn’t create an environment that feels impossible to recover from, halving the rate at which the disparity happens.

I don’t know what the exact math would be, and blowouts would still be blowouts (to be balanced by a matchmaker that doesn’t have to deal with free transfers), but perhaps it would step in the appropriate direction.

Either way, I’ll be curious to see what they do, and while they’re busy doing it, I’ll be out just looking for fun fights.

I’ve continued to have some really good fights, though I believe last night was more Maguuma-centric. A nice drawn-out duel with a Mesmer (after my level 43 engi friend died, which was expected), Thieves in various places, and other small groups. Usually fights turned into 1v4 or 1v5, often against my favor, but still good fun.

Also, my underleveled Engi friend had a nice introduction to small-scale Thieves/Mesmers. His reaction was more tempered than I might have thought, but still entertaining.

@Dual: You still aren’t’ getting it, but at this point I don’t think you will. It isn’t even about you disagreeing, it’s that you don’t seem to understand what he’s saying.

If you have some super secret uber idea that you don’t want to share because it’ll make you the #1 GW2 player ever, fine. However, generalizations on theorycrafting strategies don’t help in the face of an explicit example of how the ability is affecting the meta.

tOss.9024:

This thread is a perfect example of why Anet just can’t win. I feel so bad for game companies now.

I think game developers understand that you can’t please all of the people all of the time, and that forums are going to be filled with the irrational.

That said, it’s a bit frustrating to see Elementalists rush a WvWvW ZvZ line, get downed, and just mistform easily back to their line to be rezzed. There’s no risk to it for them anymore, but I would happily concede that for tPvP balance. As it stands, it seems like it’s pretty good, but broken? I think people need to calm down before that judgement is made. It’s hard to go from “Lol this is a free stomp” to “Omg he went all the way over there? Wtf”.

There was a lot of good back-and-forth this afternoon outside of Greenbriar in DB BL (I’m on FA). Here’s to hoping the fights stay good. Winning and losing means little in the face of a “beautiful game”.

Are we human, or are we dancers?

That’s all I could think when I read the title. Anyway, it takes time to swing a weapon, especially a large weapon. I like it, personally.

you can dodge a steal just like you can dodge a rush, it’s just your fault if you can’t do it as often.

I can’t even begin to believe anyone would defend this statement. Then again, Sarah Palin tried to defend herself after getting the midnight ride of Paul Revere all wrong, so I guess anything’s possible.

Either way, my biggest issue at the moment is just being able to Steal while in the middle of C&D. If you couldn’t, would Backstab still be an issue?

Now I won’t be able to sleep at night until they implement a Risen-based Tower Defense, complete with siege weapon deployments that can be pre-configured to auto-fire with given parameters (power for cats/trebs, direction, etc.). They could even go Sanctum on it and allow players to contribute towards the damage done/spend upgrade money on weapons instead of “towers”.

But yes, additional PvP modes are needed more. For now. Though you could have competitive TD.

Coffeebot.3921:

I have no idea why people say mug’s damage is high given that it’s essentially a 32-45 second cooldown (depending on traits) hell a warriors burst skill has a 10 second cooldown and can hit for 2-5k (depending on weapon) but people aren’t asking for nerfs there.

I’m going to take a few guesses:

Warrior burst skills are often animation-based, and therefore much more easily dodged. In order to counter/dodge a Thief’s Steal, you basically just have to guess when they’re going to use it and pre-dodge. Also considering Steal shadowsteps you to the target and does damage instantly, this makes it basically free damage, and a free, guaranteed closer.

In order to use a Warrior burst skill, you either need to choose Berserker’s Stance (I don’t know of anyone who does this in sPvP, though I do for WvWvW), or hit something. To maximize the effectiveness of the burst, you need all 3 bars, which is 30 strikes of Adrenaline. Some traits give you strikes when you kill something, or take damage, or swap weapons, but it’s still time building up or the trade-off of a lesser effect. Mug is always just constant, strong Mug.

I personally think for an e-sport to exist, it must be balanced at the competitive level. In this case, we would be talking tPvP. That isn’t to say that they should completely ignore lower-level players, but I can’t think of a game that doesn’t have gimmicky strats that can tear apart lower levels while fading to uselessness or very situational use in competitive play.

My main curiosity is: how much imbalance can the casual population tolerate in a game like GW2? How much is too much for a gimmick/cheese?

You misunderstand. I don’t want people to back down, I want them to step up. I want a conversation with substance, not just the usual “These are my ideas, they would fix the game.” Sometimes my frustration injects itself into a comment, but I’m used to conversing with very strong personalities, and we fire at one another as a secondary sport during arguments all the time.

I never intend any personal insult. Period. That comment of mine was inflammatory, and it’s my fault for starting the rapport off on the wrong foot. For that particular part, I apologize.

However, if this were a conversation around a table, would you be able to use the argument “Well I explained myself to other people the other day, so ask them about it if you’re interested in learning more”? I get that forums allow me to look at your previous posts, but why do I have to assume that you’ve explained your ideas in another thread? I don’t have time to go hunting for previous posts to try to get the full story, and there’s no reason each thread can’t be treated like a brand new conversation. In such a scenario, you might as well fully support your idea, or at least link to the explanation. I feel like the explanation in your post here had gaps.

As it turns out, I just happened on another of your posts here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/sPvP-needs-new-game-types-for-example/first#post534874

For starters, casual conquest doesn’t require all of the top-tier bits such as communication, etc. You can just run to points that aren’t capped, leave when they are, and find fights. Is it the most effective way to do it? Of course not, but it’s casual mode. I often find myself capping side points and getting in smaller skirmishes, or if I want, I’ll find the “zerg” and engage in a larger scale fight. I hardly ever pay attention to the score unless it’s really close, at which point I’ll try to “win” for fun. Otherwise, I’m just looking for fights, which are typically centered around points (except sometimes, when I find them in the middle of nowhere).

If you implement 3v3 TDM, the most efficient way will be to have leadership call targets, communicate when you need peels, assign certain responsibilities to your teammates based on role, etc. If we’re going to compare apples to apples, competitive Conquest and competitive 3v3 will require the same sort of competitive qualities.

If you queue up for 3v3 with someone you don’t know, how will you respond to their play? What if the DPS just goes running in expecting you to support, and dies? You’re mad at him, he’s mad at you, and the community still turns on one another. How long should the match last? How will respawns be taken into account? What happens when one team just decimates the other and camps their spawn area for 10 minutes?

In an ideal world, you’d have an ongoing even fight between 6 players that’s nicely back and forth, just for fun. However, in a mode even more about just killing people, what is stopping the majority of players from still going glass-cannon and trying to kill people in a few seconds? I can’t personally think of anything.

These are my concerns. It sounds like you just like Deathmatch formats better, and that’s fine. I think it would be ultra healthy for the game to offer more sPvP formats than just conquest, and like I said, I’d be intensely surprised if ANet doesn’t go down that road. The problem lurking in the shadows is that people who like their format best will probably request tournaments. They’ll want the game balanced for their preferred mode, and I understand, but I’m not sure how balancing for TDM will impact Conquest balance, or CTF balance, or whatever-have-you. That rifts the community even further, as people chomp at the bit to have balance catered to their mode.

However, that’s the negative side of the coin. The positive side is that more options allows more people to play how they want to play, and at the end of the day, I think that’s worth it. If there was TDM, I’d play. If there was CTF, I’d play.

I want diversity too, but I think it’s healthy to explore pros AND cons.

But I think this is starting to get off-topic, so if you care to flesh out some details you had in mind about specifics and how to best avoid the frustrations inherent in any PvP mode, I’d love to hear them, whether it’s PM or the other thread you posted in.

This is the only warning I will give you to stop attacking my personal character.

Did you threaten me on the Guild Wars 2 forums? I’m astounded. I wasn’t even assaulting your personal character, just the things that you said in your post.

You said the following:

3v3 DM would immediately bring in more players, solve alot of problems, and make others clear for correcting.

That’s what you said. I’m talking about what you said. You also said:

3v3 Team Deathmatch would be much better for pugs, casuals, and any player that just wants to solo for a bit (say at 3am).

Is it too much to ask to hear some elaboration?

If you’re keeping that close of an eye on what I’m saying, you’ll notice I believe ANet has a lot of work ahead of them. It’s a very complex problem, and the solution sort of hinges on exactly what goals they have for the game. I’m not talking about them wanting an e-sport, I’m talking about what kind of e-sport. Can professional players use it as a source of income? Will it just be competitively sound and offer in-game leaderboards? You can take “e-sport” and twist it to mean the whole range of potential ideas, from just a game that has competitive potential to a game players can make a living from.

I’m all for additional game modes. If ANet doesn’t deliver more in the way of casual PvP content beyond WvWvW, I’ll be disappointed, and that’s coming from someone (me) who loves spending hours in WvWvW. I’m following the competitive/structured community because I’d love to become a spectator for this game, and I like seeing how the competitive meta develops.

Also, the quote’s from True Grit, spoken by Rooster Cogburn. It also represents my mentality in WvWvW, as it’s very, very amusing to watch the front line of the enemy zerg break around your assault and give ground instinctively. It’s almost like a psychological experiment, but it works, and is ultra fun.

I’d be happy to hear more about why 3v3 TDM would help the game, but you’ll need to be open to prying criticism. The only way to strengthen your opinion is to have it challenged.

TehPenGu.6127:

Good post. Have not seen Anet comment on ANYTHING regarding unbalanced aspects of the game. Never saw no one say “So hey, this is the deal; we know X is over the top strong atm, but we will be changing that asap.”

I don’t think the community would be able to handle comments like that, especially if ANet decides X isn’t actually over the top strong.

Master Charles.7093:

Spvp: the master strategy has about a 3/10 skill cap. Alot of times all you need do is run away when outnumbered and herd on a less balanced point. Tpvp takes that to the next level with voip and a command structure, but pugs, casuals, and even tourney players who just wanna play solo are completely lost in a system that demands communication, coordination, responsiblity, leadership, and loyalty. That stuff doesn’t come instantly in the middle of battle, especially between people who don’t even know each other. Thus, spvp is always a mess, and the community turns on each other. 3v3 Team Deathmatch would be much better for pugs, casuals, and any player that just wants to solo for a bit (say at 3am). And isn’t it obvious business sense that we can’t just throw away the most accessible mode to chaos?

The DotA 2 system demands communication, coordination, responsibility, leadership, and loyalty. It demands sacrifice and selfless expenditures for the good of the team to truly operate.

Pugs don’t have it there either, and that game’s thriving. My own guess is that it’s because they blame each other for losing and not the game. The incentives are also about the same as playing casual golf: looking for that perfect game that feels good.

Odds are 3v3 TDM would result in cheese 3s dominating, creating a stagnant/boring/frustrating meta.

How do I know? I don’t, but I figured I’d join in if we were going to sling around conclusions based on unjustified assumptions.

Apophis.8561:

the signet had nothing to do with the ridiculous amount of dmg you are taking,

I strenuously disagree. The signet was a huge issue, being an additional 50% damage on top of the auto-crit. Now it’s just 15% for that hit. I still think being able to steal in the middle of C&D without interrupting the ability is silly, but they offloaded a large chunk of that front-loaded damage and spread the potential energy across multiple abilities, providing a larger window of opportunity to react.

Maybe it still needs a tweak, but I thought it was a creative first step.

kinderghast.8501:

Well written, good sentence structure and very polite wording without being too obvious. Comes across as a little earnest perhaps, which might act in OP’s favour getting responses.

3/10

I think people forgot to read this post, as well. Quoting it for posterity, though I probably would have ranked it a point or two higher.

The PvP gear just looks different. You can use a PvP salvage kit to gain PvP materials that you can use in the Mystic Forge to have a chance at the type of gear you want. You should be able to find a list of recipes fairly readily on Google, as well as what each type of gear looks like, if you want to plan ahead.

It offers you no advantages in-game, though.

So rank matters now? I was under the impression that all it did was make your character look “cooler”. I didn’t know it was a measure of someone’s worth.

Also, I honestly thought this thread was going to mention something about balance. Given the sample size of 600 games, the OP has won exactly 50% of them. Half the time you draw the long straw, half the time you draw the short straw.

Then it was made to sound like the OP loses all the time, or that he/she’s entitled to a higher rank because of reasons. I’m still trying to figure out how rank matters at all. It’s a plastic carrot on a wooden stick, and people are chomping at the bit to get their mitts all over it.

I mean do you see that carrot? Look at how orange it is, I HAVE TO HAVE IT.

What is balance to you folks, exactly? Winning all the time because we always think we’re better than the other player, regardless? Jumping into a pug and being able to swing the game to your favor because you’re pro? It’s a pug, and hot-join at that. Glory doesn’t even reward you with anything other than looking different, and it’s still enough to make people ignore objectives.

So how do you get people to not ignore objectives? Make them worth more? Then you have to somehow make sure people don’t just join games and trade capping, which people do anyway right now. So then what? You make it so you only gain glory with 10+ people, or 8+ people, or what-have-you. What is stopping people from just all dropping the second there are less than 10 people? Nothing. Servers would wipe clean in moments, and they already seem to degrade quickly when leavers start leaving.

So how, exactly, do you create a system where people in a public game actively try to just do objectives and try to “win properly”? I’m open to suggestions, as long as the person suggesting is open to me finding a way to exploit the system and make hot-join “no fun”.

EDIT – Do people really need spikes on their armor today, so they can come back and complaint that they’re top rank too quickly and no longer have any more incentives to PvP? Or that they already have the set they want for looks, so why bother?

Boloth.6879:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Please stop trying to force the Hungry Hungry Hippos analogy. I know you probably think it’s clever, but at best, it’s completely wrong.

Like it or not that’s what PvP is like.

Players use the exact same 3-button gimmicks every game without any regard for what their opponent is doing.

I love wen I see players using 3-button gimmicks, because it means my odds of slaughtering them is ultra high.

I use 16 skill buttons as often as possible in PvP. Some skills I use differently depending on the situation.

So no, that isn’t what PvP is like. It isn’t a matter of liking the analogy, it’s a matter of it being incorrect.

Please stop trying to force the Hungry Hungry Hippos analogy. I know you probably think it’s clever, but at best, it’s completely wrong.