Guild Wars 2

glock.6590:

Maugetarr.6823:

glock.6590:

,If you people think arenanet will keep things that way , you are being delusional. Its obvious that 60606 thief build will be the most ridiculous overpowered crap that ever existed.

And think about that build being 66606 because they basically combined DA+ crit strikes together by putting executionner in there and removing stats from trait lines and adding extra stats to the PvP amulets instead.

You can expect heavy nerfs to DA for sure and SA because people QQ’ed about it for so long.

SA won’t be meta because it can be counter built too easily with lock on and analyze. You could be locked out of a mechanic for too long. I’m not saying you’ll get killed by the engi, but 1/3 of your traits could be rendered useless. You can’t be locked out of CS or Acro.

The only reason it will be problematic its because engineers got buffed to a ridiculous level too. So if teams start running double engi it can be problematic but against everything else that build will be dominating.

And no crit strikes is not worth it anymore and acro got nerfed along with vigor across the board. SA will be the way to go.

And most engineers players said that lock on trait isint that good, they would lose too much utility/damage just to get a crappy trait to annoy thieves which they already counter anyway.. especially on point.

So why they got that trait? It will just get our kitten kicked into whatever in fights we already shouldn´t win. Not that its impossible to win against engis, I can win against most kind of engis with a lot of different builds. But here we talk about the same gameplay level. And there engis already are in advantage.
I wouldn´t say CS is THAT bad now. Some things they changed look very interesting compared to the things they demonstrated first.

Let us take these traits:
——-Minor – Keen Observer: Critical-hit chance is increased by 5% while your health is above the 90% threshold.
——Adept – Flawless Strike: Critical damage is increased by 7% when your health is above the 90% threshold.
——-Minor – Unrelenting Strikes: Gain fury for 4 seconds when striking a foe whose health is below 50% health. This effect has a 10 second internal cooldown.
——-Master – Practiced Tolerance: Gain ferocity based on your precision at a rate of 10%.
——Minor – Ferocious Strikes: Critical damage is increased by 10% to foes above the 50% health threshold.
——Grandmaster – No Quarter: Landing a critical hit while under the effect of fury extends the duration of fury by 2 seconds (this effect has a 2 second internal cooldown). Gain up to 250 ferocity (based on level) while under the effects of fury.

Let us take number we are sure about and optimal circumstances:
7% crit-damage from Flawless Strike
+11% from Practiced Tolerance (1000 base precision, 650 from zerker-amulet, amulet stats likely to be improved)
+10% from Ferocious Strikes
+16,666% from No Quarter (fury-access through Unrelenting Strikes and Thrill of the crime, better uptime through no quarter itself)
=44,6% crit-damage with a good uptime on fury.

I´m not sure what impact this will have overall, but I think thats a good base-point to start from.

Acrobatic seems very lackluster compared to other traitlines and buffs other classes got. Like I said before. Making Feline Grace like before, but just giving the endurance through a successful evade. Still giving the 50% improvement on vigor. Very important to dodge things. Improved vigor wouldn´t be that strong overall cause of just affecting vigorous recovery and bountiful theft. Or maybe changing it still.
Shadow´s Rejuvination just trigger when going into revealed with a fixed amount. Less stealth stacking and boring stealthing to recover cd´s. Rewarding aggressive gameplay and open chances for the enemy while revealed lasts.
If I´m not missing something that would be more balance than that crap we have right now. ^^

StickerHappy.8052:

Coronit.9432:

BlackBeard.2873:

Just going to laugh my butt off when they get tons of improv. procs that recharge their heal (as it is now a skill type), which also isn’t interruptible.

Thief is honestly going to be so broken, it might actually be worth taking 2 if you have 2 good ones.

You don´t play thief that much, do you? We lost some very important damage-traits that we have to compensate in taking executioner. I don´t think that much people will take impro over executioner. Impro was good enough to use it instead of 5% dagger-damage, but not instaed of executioner.

Thieves always say “We lost this..lost that..We got nerfed…yada yada..” Still hasn’t lost a spot in the meta.

#thieflogic

Well, I try to stay up to date ith the upcoming changes. Especially the necromancer looks very promising in giving thieves competition. Using the new shatter gives the opportunity to use port skills or stealth skills and resetting after that shatterskilltime-thing ends. Could give thieves a really hard time. Why we should loose a spot in the meta? If you want that you really have no idea at all. Its about having options between classes and I think they are going a good way between mesmer and thief. Funny that the comp with a thief and mesmer is a more difficult one to play on high niveau
Furthermore your sentence doesn´t make sense. We are describing EXACTLY what got nerfed, what buffed. Not just on one single skill or trait, but on the big picture. That thread is the perfect example.
“Why no nerf on withdraw”
Fact is (and we described that very accurately) it got changed DIRECTLY (20% more cd, 10% more heal) and nerfed on the BIG PICTURE.
Now you come into this thread and write "Thieves always say “We lost this..lost that..We got nerfed…yada yada..” Still hasn’t lost a spot in the meta."
What the hell?
I see so many constructive things in the thief-forum alone. Everything better than this sentence. (putting aside the obvious always around trolls)
#QQerlogic

Btw @ Fay.2357
“Shatter builds are still countered by heavy aoe pressure, not just phantasm builds”
Hm, are thieves and mesmer not generally countered by heavy AoE pressure? Both?

BlackBeard.2873:

Just going to laugh my butt off when they get tons of improv. procs that recharge their heal (as it is now a skill type), which also isn’t interruptible.

Thief is honestly going to be so broken, it might actually be worth taking 2 if you have 2 good ones.

You don´t play thief that much, do you? We lost some very important damage-traits that we have to compensate in taking executioner. I don´t think that much people will take impro over executioner. Impro was good enough to use it instead of 5% dagger-damage, but not instaed of executioner.

No just there my friend, not just there…
And yes, that was necessary.
[Good bye being completely invincible while using rams with ram-mastery :´<]

lighter.2708:

nightblood.7910:

lighter.2708:

Good thieves have being playing 26006 S/D in duels and doing completely good.
not sure how this nerf would do a lot except for bad thieves who just spam dodges, 6 in acrobat still gives more dodge then others and they are nerfing dodging for all by nerfing vigor.

A lot of people refer to balance in terms of duels and I never really understand why as in any game mode landing a 1v1 is pretty rare and I thank the MMO gods for it when it happens.

Most of the time, youre in team fights whether PvP or WvW unless you are specifically dueling with the purpose of dueling. This is where this hurts is in team fights where there is a ton of crap being laid down from engies or any aoe class and you are fighting other stuff and you need those dodges. Thieves dont have anything but stealth and dodge really for defense. Yeah the few times you get to 1v1 you should still be good, but thats really not the majority of my fights.

I just dont see how you can measure balance in terms of duels in this game. I mean it would be right for them to at least make that skill 100% more effective bringing to its current state as its vital to thief defense.

former acro has way too much sustain in 5v5 for the damage it outputs anyway, even tho it’s not as much as d/p, but the survive/damage ratio is way too high.

former, you mean how it is now? Sustain still very good with the amount of dodges. Damage? Seriously? S/D got pushed out of the meta because of lacking in damage.
Atm D/P is superior.
I speak about tpvp btw, not wvw
Do you even play thief?

Lenaios.2781:

King.1985:

This argument isn’t over whether SA is op, or stealth is op, or any of that. There’s already plenty of soft counters to stealth. A long time ago Anet said they wanted to stay away from hard class counters, as they should. A step in the right direction would be to make this skill show thieves to the engi using “glitter” as someone mentioned earlier. I personally feel theres enough soft counters to stealth already for it to not be a problem, but since the majority can’t seem to grasp it I’m fine with adding another (the glitter thing)

Soft counters to stealth already
-Can’t cap/decap while stealthed
-Stealth is always counterable by a logical player
—Examples: black powder+hs – rupt the HS
—-cnd – blind/block/dodge the cnd
—-Hide in shadows- long cast time/easy to rupt
—-shadow refuge – automatic aoe bomb target/aoe knockback in the SR
—- channeled skills track through stealth
—-Thieves are not immune to damage… aka condis/aoes etc

I’m not going to defend and try to say stealth is perfectly balanced, but there are plenty of ways to play around it. If you insist on hard counters like the ones in game already IE stealth traps/sic em/analyze, make it NOT PASSIVE and make it require an investment. That is all i must add here

This post I like and agree. Now only if they would remove the passive bonuses thieves and mesmers get(if traited) while in stealth these kind of hard counters wouldnt be even needed and the game would be much better. There is nothing wrong with the current panic strike thief meta stealth, but fighting full shadow arts thief or PU mesmer is just not fun.

Like getting health and inititative when entering revealed, forcing the thief to engage more instead of restealthing or resetting. It was discussed and proposed. Instead we get that brainless hardcounter thrown at us and feline grace nerfed into oblivion. I think almost everyone would have been satisfied when the endurance through feline grace only granted on successful evade. Instead they did that bullkitten.
Of course we got some buffs. Everyone got them. But thats the point. Some buffs got covered with nerfs. Giving a trait so tricks remove one condition and 20% less recharge time? Sounds good, but can´t compete with bountiful theft which could be nerfed through random boonsteal, too. About that we don´t know much though. Quick pockets in trickery? Loughable. Wasn´t used that much before (I used it a bit, couldn´t compete with power of inertia imo) and wont be now when having to compete with sleight of hand. Vigorous Recovery has to compete with pain response, etc.
Yes, now we can run 60606 in pvp, what I don´t like. Don´t understand me wrong, I really like stealth as a mechanic. What I don´t like is to be forced to play full SA. Maybe meta will be 66006 full damage with almost no condi-removal. I didn´t liked that either.

Lenaios.2781:

Basilisk Venom+Choking Gas for that heal stop. Also thieves can still use their heal while revealed, do very good dmg and can use most of their skills too (all actually, except the stealth ones don’t stealth while being revealed).

lol, that counterplay to a block needs an elite-skill and a skill on shortbow in short enough time.
Lets say you are on SB (not on the other weaponset and cd on switch) and see a guard using shelter. Now you need have basilis-venom ready if not being on cd (45sec), often used for other reason, cast it (1sec) and hit the guard in time with the choking gas. Thats needs far more preparation than (hit an enemy in stealth (20sec cd)).
Yeah, we can use our heal, but what if it goes back to the old 26006 (66006) with hide in shadows in need of a condiremove – easy interruptable and gives stealth —-> revealed.
Withdraw can get you shortly out of trouble. Engi still can reach you easily with their range. Using a port is another option but has an cd of 50sec. To go aggressive? As a thief you should normally NEVER engage an engi 1vs1 in pvp. Especially not in a teamfight. Without stealth you are dead there…
On legacy you could maybe go to the ledge and use SB. But with revealed you gonna be in focus for every enemy zerker-class, thief, guard, ele, mesmer, ranger, etc. Try to run away from a ranger with their standart – 1900 range without stealth.

Lachanche.6859:

I disagree with your d/p prediction, in my opinion thieves are better off picking trickery + 1 defensive traitline + 1 offensive traitline. Putting both deadly arts and critical strikes in the same build looks too extreme even for a thief.

Longbow power ranger starts to look seriously viable now

@mistsim.2748 you miss out too much without skirmishing, 33% bleeding damage and 66% reduced cooldown beat 2s of taunt any day.

For a long time D/P 26006 was meta until panicstrike came. Under good circumstances crit-strikes can give you around 40% crit-damage and a lot of fury, what could be very strong with increased power on amulets. I didn´t like the 26006 that much though. Not much condi-remove. 60606 could be meta, too. But I´m not sure about it.

Cynz.9437:

Sweetbread.4701:

Grimreaper.5370:

Khandarus.2738:

Oh no a dodge that throws them back 600 units or so, so OP /sarcasim

It can potentially lead to pretty op builds when its on a 15sec cd and combined with vamp runes >.<

Also when it clears all impaired movement conditions (this is NOT a small thing) on the class that already has the highest movement and disengage potential in the game it can lead to a lot of uncounterable fight resets in a very short time frame. Head scratching balance decisions as usual.

and then forget that evades or stealth is only thing thieves have for defense….

i mean other classes don’t have invuls, blocks, multiple heals, high uptime on protection, high armor, higher HP…. nope, not at all~

btw, for all of you uninformed: withdraw did get increase on CD and it can’t be activated while being CCd~

Well, immobilize is a CC that gets cleared by withdraw which is a strong aspectof that heal.
But to a lot of arguments and QQ on that thread. Not even have an idea about the impact of an increased cd to 18sec. Not having the big picture in your mind.

Old withdraw + effects:
D/P – 15sec cd heal, evade and cures cripple, immobilize and chill. every 15sec because of the heal together with vamp-rune a burst/heal improve of 975, which has to land on the enemy.
S/D – 15sec cd heal, evade and cures cripple, immobilize and chill. Every 15sec vigor on heal for 6 1/2 sec. High vigor uptime together with Feline Grace and flanking strike giving a lot of dodges.

Now withdraw + effect:
Heal on 18sec. Effect of vamp-rune every 18sec. vigor on heal every 18sec and Vigor on 5sec, while the trait has to compete with pain response, a very important skill for condiremove. Vigor itself nerfed, feline grace nerfed.

Still complaining?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Coronit.9432:

@Sir Vincent III
“The boon duration may be on the latter.”
What do you mean with that?
If the boon duration gonna be added into gear like power/precision/boon duration then I don´t think anyone would take it except when its so much to be OP

We already have the boon duration on our gears. If they are increasing the player’s stats, then it is safe to assume that they are also going to increase the gear’s stats.

One thing is clear though. With the latest changes to the traits and skills, I doubt they had enough time to test these changes so by the time this patch comes out, everything will be out of whack and incomplete.

Wait, where do you have that boon-duration on your gear? Do you use doubloons? If they increase the duration on these I don´t thnk anyone would use them except when they are so OP to try them out. Giving up damage for them isn´t a good way.

Ocosh.5843:

Coronit.9432:

Where will acro do more damage then? Am I missing something? Yeah, stats-increase etc. But everyone gets that.

Sorry, could have been clearer. I meant no connection between the first part and the stats part — responses to two different things. More damage as they will now have Panick Strike and Executioner.

Outside from the improved stats I don´t think its a that strong damage improvement. We loose fluid-strikes, gain Exposed Weakness – we loose power of inertia, gain executioner. power of inertia was an always damage buff with that might. Executioner is bind to the target being under 50%. Not sure how much better that 20% under 50% exactly are. Panic strike is definitly something good.

Ocosh.5843:

I expect that 1) it’s from the same mind that’s behind the overall Vigor reduction (I guess they want to see fewer dodges); 2) it intends to counterbalance the fact that Acro will be doing more damage (and more burst) in the future than it does now.

The way it is phrased, yes, it means Acro’s Vigor gives 75%. They may not mean it that way (but they probably do).

Re: stat increases: Boon duration is not one of those attributes. The “926 to 1000” refers to Power, Precision, Toughness, and Vitality. Everyone lost boon duration from trait lines. Some got a portion back in a trait and some didn’t.

Where will acro do more damage then? Am I missing something? Yeah, stats-increase etc. But everyone gets that.

@Sir Vincent III
“The boon duration may be on the latter.”
What do you mean with that?
If the boon duration gonna be added into gear like power/precision/boon duration then I don´t think anyone would take it except when its so much to be OP

KrHome.1920:

Acro sucks bad now. Its effect is nerfed from 100 to 50% in general and raised to 100% again with Acrobatics. So with perma vigor (what is pretty hard to get btw.) now you have the same amount of endurance like before the patch with any class using vigor.

That makes no sense at all. I would even say, that with the endurance created by the dagger autoattack a D/X stealth thief will have about the same number of dodges as an acro thief PLUS stealth.

What were they thinking?

Tarkan.5609:

Meaning:
- Vigor right now: 2x the endurance gain (100%)

- Untraited vigor with the changes: 1,5x the endurance gain (100% then, in comparison to now 50%)

- Traited vigor with the changes: 1,75x the endurance gain (150% then, in comparison to now 75%)

Hope you get what i mean

Got it. And I hope they don’t do it that way! Then it would be even worse.

And don´t forget about the romoval of boonduration we had because of acrobatic. Some other classes got traits to compensate it. I think they forgot us. Less duration on every vigor. Withdraw on 18sec now, vigor on heal 5sec. Great…not.

Kageseigi.2150:

Coronit.9432:

What? Dagger normally does more damage while S/D is lacking there. ^^

I have no explanation whatsoever. All I know is when I was facing tankier builds, my damage and survivability went up when I swapped to s/d. Maybe I was spamming Flanking/Larcenous Strike too much… maybe the boon stealing really buffed me… maybe, even, I was too predictable with d/d. But when I started swinging a sword, things started dying… so I just went with it :-P

Haha, ok ^^
Survivability is definitily better on S/D than D/D, no question, but D/P has a lot of survivability through blinds, (3 which is a port and high damage and 5), damage (1,2,3 and backstab) and the poison on AA-chain is useful against tankier ones as well.

Yamsandjams.3267:

This is the first time we’ve seen a mechanic that will forcibly remove someone from stealth. The other “stealth counter”, like Sic ’Em! and Analyze, were only means of preventing someone from entering stealth, not actually removing them from stealth.

As such, I’m not really sure how this is going to play out.

However, do keep in mind that an engineer must spec for it, this doesn’t come free. Taking this also means not taking speedy kits, so it’s quite possible the engineer will be slower and thus you might be able to retreat from them more effectively if they happen to reveal you.

It does also have an ICD of 20 seconds. Yes, they can take utility googles to extend that up to a maximum of 18 seconds of revealing, but now they had to lock out one of their utility skills, and they can’t do something else like refresh a stun break or a healing ability. However, not everyone may opt to do that.

If it turns out to be too powerful, I’m sure they’ll kick it back into the ground it came from. Say, at the very least, reduce the lock on reveal duration so that the thief can still opt to pop another cooldown or something in order to go back into stealth almost immediately. I dunno.

Its just funny how many were complaining about thieves running away again in the last weeks. And with things like that we are kinda forced to “run” away. Shadowstep is on a 50sec cooldown and also needed for condi-cleanse or stunbreaker (engi has a lot of CC you know?). We could go more aggressive of course with blind from black powder (D/P) or evades (S/D). Blind got nerfed and can´t compete with all the AoE the engi has and evades from S/D got nerfed, too. In a teamfight in PvP a thief can even less go deep.

Jay.3409:

this isnt OP but i dont wana stack up threads regarding new thief’s so…. recommend me one good thief guide ( youtube,forum)? im new, and have no clue on how to dmg an enemy.. also how do other thief stay in stealth for more than 10second? im D/P panic strike ( metabuild )

Guide Book of Shadows
Guides Some very useful Guides. Just to tired to search more
You should at least be able to get 3 heartseeker through the black powder field. With a little bit of practice 4 are easy to achieve, too. Then restealth, chain refuge or blinding powder etc. Permastealth isn´t possible with a normal meta-build.

Kageseigi.2150:

Coronit.9432:

What I know is that normally NO ONE wants a thief giving up damage for survivability.

Oh, I don’t want to give up damage either. I just know that I deal a LOT more damage when I’m alive than dead, hehe. I REALLY have to work on staying alive without as much survivability.

Drennon.7190:

I can’t wait to see what people come up with for s/d. With reveal becoming so abundant, it’s time to evade spam people to death.

I’ve been running with s/d as my second set for when I can’t do enough damage with d/x. I’m going to enjoy all of the whining and tears when everybody gets what they’ve been asking for. So many skills I need to learn so I can cause tears also! :-D

Well, in guild-raids or PvP you are used for your mobility together with damage in order to burst targets (low health ones or through +1 a fight) or just decap nodes in PvP. SA isn´t usefull there. You can´t kill someone when in stealth or cap something. You need to kill targets as fast as possible. The longer you need, more dangerous it becomes. For Roaming or 1vs1 SA is simply OP, end of story. Acrobatic was giving S/D survivability together with more damage (might on dodge, fluid strikes). Because of the lack of damage from S/D it got pushed out of the meta. Now acrobatic gives even less damage and survivability. I will try out S/D 66006 though.
“I’ve been running with s/d as my second set for when I can’t do enough damage with d/x.” What? Dagger normally does more damage while S/D is lacking there. ^^

Jana.6831:

Oh that’s a long story, I don’t care about the loot, also not about ultimate dominator.
When the ferocity change hit last year I have been unable to run with the zerg anymore so I was standing around in towers for a few months. Every other person would’ve rerolled another class, I couldn’t. So I became a roamer (10 kills per day woohooo).
A few months later I started to join zergs with my valk/zerker thief again – a really bad idea usually, but it works, even frontline with the right commanders. And our server isn’t underpopulated – we have got queues for the maps I’m on.
A few weeks ago we fought hard to get in first and I killed 500 guys within one day
I just want to be useful actually, not so sure if this nerf was really neccessary.

You got up again. I like you.
I didn´t liked thief that much. Starting with Pistols and rifles in the game and choice of name. “Thief” – great >_<
and was sad about a lot what happened in the last 3 years. Started with thief, over a year until sec class. What I began to love was what I could do with him. Nerf after nerf. Adapting to every single nerf that happened. That improvement you got through is what makes you better in that game. People will go on because of what they do with the class, not what anet makes it. And it got so hard for thieves to play on high niveau. You not only need to know your own class perfectly, but what every other class could have for you, what you have to do in PvP and rotate correct. Making mistakes doesn´t only punishes you, but your hole team. I don´t know how much I changed in options or asked very good players to improve my own skill. But in the next moment 2 players are crossing your way, for example a ranger with auto targeting just pressing a skill one after another and hitting hitting with some without thinking. Why nerfing Felina Grace that way? Letting the effect only occur when successful evading would have been enough. But no, giving 2sec nerfed vigor with an ICD. Kinda gott of topic

Drennon.7190:

I can’t wait to see what people come up with for s/d. With reveal becoming so abundant, it’s time to evade spam people to death.

For S/D? You remember the old ones before S/D acro? 66006, 66060 (well, I wouldn´t bet on that one without trickery ^^). Maybe 60066 gets viable. But with a lot less evade. Feline Grace nerfed, vigor nerfed (Nerfception, the nerfed Feline Grace got itself nerfed), you have to choose between condiremove or vigor, both in acro and trickery. Don´t underestimate the lack of boonduration.

Kageseigi.2150:

Coronit.9432:

Or where do you get Fury for No quarter?

Arghhh, you had to ruin my fun with your details! :-P

I guess I’ll have to go 6/6/0/0/6 also. But I really like Hard to Catch and Don’t Stop! :-P

I liked acrobatic for S/D. Don´t know if I will like it. What I know is that normally NO ONE wants a thief giving up damage for survivability. And acrobatic doesn´t give more damage anymore. Rune of strength viable at all with just might on signet?

Jana.6831:

The withdraw had to happen because it’s a trick now and we’ve got a trait that reduces the recharge of tricks by 20%
Don’t really get the nerf of choking gas though and it’s 4 seconds on my short bow right now, so I’m confused. Would be ok if it would also cost less initative as that is what I’m spamming in zerg fights.

Just that it has to compete with bountiful theft. Thats like: “Nerfed cause of maybe buff with a trait, just that it can´t compete. Enjoy your hidden nerf.” Anet so sneaky.
Yeah, got nerfed once. Gets nerfed again. I´m not surprised. Why should a skill called Choking Gas with 4 initiative cost provide that amount of poison when keep staying inside? x) Maybe add Vulnerability to it at least?
Funny that this is our way to compete with Looting-machines like Guard, necro and ele ^^
Some main thief got Ultimate dominator? Or they all died of boredom ^^
The other things are ok imo

Geiir.7603:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Geiir.7603:

Hi all! Thanks for the bumps, kind words and feedback!

I have been away from the game for a few months for personal reasons, but I am now back and will start working on this guide again. I also want to say that I am expecting a baby girl in early June, so my playing time (and updating this guide time) will be limited. I will do my best to keep the guide up to date at all times.

Just wanted to let you guys know what I’ve been doing and why it is such a long time since I have updated it.

Welcome back, but sadly, you might have to edit the whole thing after the expansion.

Congrats on the little one.

Yeah, which is also one of the reasons why I haven’t been super active trying to write new stuff for this guide. After Heart of Thorns are released I’ll play a lot and update the guide accordingly.

Thanks bro! Finally got my baby girl, so I have been almost 100% occupied the last weeks :p

Well, congratulation from my side, too. I would say thats one of the most beautiful gifts a man can receive. June… Nice month for birthday-partys. Barbecue! \o/
Mine is late Dezember. A lot of people always in holidays. At least I can spend my time with family most of the time :P
And nice to hear that you want to upgrade that hole thing

AikijinX.6258:

I was going to make a thread like this, but you saved me the hassle.
Current Build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAsYVl0MpvplOxyJ8PNBNBt9wbQE8eMfpMaFAA-TlCEABT8ACSRHgd7P8kyP90iAimACOFC4o+DAHBADVCGAABIdGA25OP6R35RLFg5CjA-w

Post Patch Build (66006)

Deadly Arts:
Mug
Revealed Training
Executioner

Critical Strikes:
Flawless Strike
Practiced Tolerance
No Quarter

Trickery:
Flanking Strikes
Bountiful Theft
Sleight Of Hand

Especially for PvP more or less this could be the meta (very similar to the 26006).
Some thoughts from me:
Panic Strike over Revealed Training
About Flanking Strike, maybe thrill of crime? Or where do you get Fury for No quarter?

I´m not happy with that development though :/
I will miss the condiremove in stealth, but I just don´t want full kitten SA to be meta. -_-

Dahkeus.8243:

EremiteAngel.9765:

steal cooldown incredibly low when traited…nothing nerfed…

SA: when in stealth, gain initiative regen health cure condi stealth longer reduce dmg in stealth…

I don’t know how to kill a thief anymore

Roll an engi. Now they reveal for 6 seconds just for tapping you while stealthed with any one of their billion AoE abilities. =P

You think that will help him? He doesn´t know a hell lot of things about other classes and changes his mind whatever happened. Saw him writing about nerfing guard against thieves and in the next post about the stolen skill-daze to strong and should be nerfed. He will kill some thieves with that brainless “Lock On”, telling everyone thieves so balanced and then get killed by simply better playing thieves and screaming thieves so OP. Its hilarious.

Laraley.7695:

StickerHappy.8052:

SlimChance.6593:

Engineer’s.. no debate

And you have to think, as If Engineer’s are direly in need of buffs for being in the meta.

LOL.

They have no perma swifntess anymore, ofc they are.

I think they want us (thieves) to be able to run away when getting hit with Lock on.
Thief goes in, get hit by random AoE, thief runs away. And Dark Syze wanted fun and challenging gameplay? lol
Don´t complain about the new troll-build 60660 or 00666.
Thieves were already not ment to engage into a 1vs1 against every class except mesmer (on high level gameplay). Now we will camp shortbow, go in for a low-health-target to kill it and run away even more.

Kageseigi.2150:

Ok, tell me if I’m missing something…

---

Hard to Catch: Break stun and refill endurance when you are disabled (stun, daze, knockback, pull, knockdown, sink, float, fear, taunt, or launch)

Don’t Stop: The effects of cripple and chill on you are reduced by 50%, meaning your movement is decreased by 25% and 33% respectively, rather than 50% and 66%. If you would become immobilized, you are instead crippled for 4 seconds. This effect can only occur once every 10 seconds.

---

First of all, does Hard to Catch have an ICD? Secondly, does it prevent Immobilized? And if so, if both traits are selected, which would proc first when Immobilized?

Also, is it just me, or do these two traits seems to make a thief extremely difficult to hinder movement? If so, I am so happy! :-D

Hard to catch will definitly have a ICD. In the first stream it was 30sec I think. And no, it will not proc on immobilize. Immobilize isn´t even listed
Yeah, they want us to run away. Why else they would give us that traits, removing some swiftness, adding reveal x)

Overall I´m disappointed. Maybe its because I´m tired, but that new engi trait just gets me kittened off…
A class which was going very well against thieves up to thieves being forced to avoid alone contact in pvp gets a direct hardcounter? Great, just great. So they can just spam (yeah, THEY can do this, we cannot) through their kits hoping just to tickle the thief and then beat the hell out of him.
I hoped for more information about stolen skills. Ectoplasm keeps the way it is now? Funny thinking of “balance”.

Merciful Ambush: Stealth yourself and your target for 3 seconds when reviving an ally. You revive allies 10% faster. (Former Adept Trickery trait)
——So when i´m going to rezz someone and get hit from an engi with the trait…6sec revealed? Nice. Sry buddy, can´t rezz you, too dangerous.

Concealed Defeat: Create a Smoke Screen when downed. Deception abilities recharge 20% faster. (Former Adept Critical Strikes trait)
—— sooo, when I need as lot stealth as possible I take this (“permastealth” tryhard cough). Nice when using hide in shadows, blinding powder, shadowstep, refuge, thiefguild. To run around in stealth not fighting anyone. Hurray. (giving up our only reliable condi-remove xD)

Shadow Protector: When you grant stealth to an ally, they gain 3 seconds of regeneration. This effect no longer has an internal cooldown.
—-at least it grants regen now even if we already have it. And no icd anymore. Running around all day in stealth avoid fighting and regen even more. Even more hurray…

Cloaked in Shadows or Shadow’s Rejuvenation. That choice…

Feline Grace:
——1sec icd. better than before. Someone knows how it is with the 50% stronger vigor?
Btw why other classes are getting traits to get stronger vigor as well? Good bye special class traits… Feline Grace felt special. Soon it could be good old days. ^^

Vigorous Recovery or Pain Response? Great. Now I have to choose between an important condi-cleanse (because we have so many reliable ones) or vigor on heal. Lets see if the vigor from bountiful thef and feline grace will be enough or the vigor on heal is needed.

Guarded Initiation: Remove vulnerability, weakness and slow from yourself when striking an enemy while above the 90% health threshold.
—-not sure if its better or worse than before.
Right now I don´t think I will ever use it.

Don’t Stop: The effects of cripple and chill on you are reduced by 50%, meaning your movement is decreased by 25% and 33% respectively, rather than 50% and 66%. If you would become immobilized, you are instead crippled for 4 seconds. This effect can only occur once every 10 seconds.
——don´t stop like it was before sounded OP against mesmer (free mirror blade evade?). Now cripple and chill doesn´t even affect the movement-skills. Indirect nerf before even released? xD
Ele even gets a cleanse of chill by dodge-trait. Ice-shard useless? And we hoped to get cleanse by dodge. So naive…
Interesting against immobilize. Could be very strong.

Healing from Assassin’s Reward improved? Or at least fixed? Some skills still not “rewarding” porperly.

Trickster: Reduce recharge on tricks. Tricks remove 1 condition when used.
—-sound good. But I don´t think it can compete with bountiful theft. Added reliable condi-remove isn´t viable. That irony. We have to trait for it to gain the old withdraw-cd. Next…

Quick Pockets: not very much loved in acro, maybe you will find your soul mate here?
Sry, I´m already married with Sleight of Hand :/

Interesting change for basilisk-venom. Smaller duration, but when missing one you have a second try.

Thats it for now. I´m not playing engi or ele that much, but their changes are feeling much more promissing than ours.
Anet still doen´t get it that we don´t like to be tanky? I didn´t like thief is called “thief” and that Acro doesn´t provide any damage now.
New trolling specc 60660. I mean, what else you need a “tanky” thief for?
PvP I´m pretty sure to be 66006. What do you want to achieve with stealth? Your role is still decap, +1 and maybe kill mesmer (going to look at their changes next, maybe they got something like the engi-trait).
66006 gonna hit hard and wont let any mistake through. The good thieves will learn and master it (like 26006 before), keep killing people which will go to the forum and complain. Like always.

Edit: “Vigor: Decreased the endurance regeneration rate from 100% to 50%.”
Really? lol. Our survivability is about not getting hit. Can someone tell me how to avoid all the AoE frome engi alone? AIR STRIKE – thief revealed and down. Nice. lets be boring condi or bunker. While far less effective then every other class in that role. x)

DarkSyze.8627:

Lyrsen.6702:

DarkSyze.8627:

I want to share this with video evidence:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/S-D-Thief-Too-Strong-Discussion/first

Way to link a video from Sept. 20th, 2013…

Any serious change from Sept.20, 2013?

Here is another one

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/The-thief-and-its-gameplay-Your-feedback-Merged/page/76#post4000084

Arena net: CC Charles,

" Hello everyone, Due to the amount of threads about thief and its gameplay impact, we have decided to open this thread in which you can discuss your concerns about Thieves in PvE, sPvP and WvW ".

“This will allow us to collect your feedback with more efficiency and forward them to the appropriate teams” .

“You can articulate both, positive and negative feedback for it, but we ask you to stay constructive and polite when you want to express your opinion, all posts that break the forum code of conduct will be removed”.

Thread from 2 years ago: question?

Answer: No Serious Change.

Hahahahaha…sry…
Any serious change? Are you aware of the patch early 2014? I think not. Are you even playing that game since 2013?
You were posting links to topics about the CULLING-problem, which got fixed long ago and use it for “stealth OP pls nerf”. And you ask us why we can´t take you seriously. lmao
Btw pls stop comparing gw2 with another mmorpgs. They were always saying they want to be different. Not successful every time, but still. Learning from another games is important. But they are what they are, different games.

Funny how 2 guys thought I was talking about them ^^
I was talking about Peow peow. This guy is makes everything so ridiculous and is such an obvious troll.

@Zero Day
Thats what it was meant for ^^
Amused, bored or burned out, whatever. Most of the nerf-posts are because of the same reasons like 3 years ago. Bad players wanting easy win without working for it.
Yes, some things are still broken. Every class has that. But I think not even one player playing another class then thief was ever feeling what we feel when being TO CLOSE FOR STEAL.

auto targeting OFF. If you want to escape you really don´t want your heartseeker going towards your enemy. BP + HS is a matter of situation. Most of the time I want the blind-shot from BP to hit the enemy and then HS into another direction. But sometimes you want to hit your enemy with exactly that heartseeker and Backstab him then. Or you have to restalth, then of course you want nothing to hit the enemy and getting revealed (another reason to turn auto targeting off).

Until the patch I would stick with D/P (vamp-runes). You need what that build offers and get used to that. You could go with full SA, but then you are helping your team and learning less.
Go on the squishy targets (ranger, mesmer, necro, thief) and use a lot of shortbow in teamfights.

Tarkan.5609:

Yamsandjams.3267:

While I can’t agree with making steal telegraphed, it does annoy me that “on steal” things, such as the confusion and daze, still apply even if you manage to dodge or otherwise prevent being hit by the steal. I’ve never understood why they just get that stuff for free, considering the ability is 900 range and instantly cast.

how the kitten are you getting dazed when you dodge the steal?
thats not true, same as thief is not getting vigor and stolen boons from a dodged steal

It not only that. Lets say you play a normal panic-strike build.
When you steal successful:
- damage = 1300 and heal = 2000
- rip 2 boons and gain vigor
- inflict poison
- dazes the target (confusion on other builds)
- gain fury, might, and swiftness
- gives 2 initiative
- chance to recharge all skills of one type (venoms, signets, traps, tricks, or deceptions)

When you fail:
gain fury,might and swiftness

Yeah, we get all that stuff for free…
Btw we have to invest in 2 full traitlines for that.

“otherwise prevent the steal”
Aegis will not work cause it gets stolen first. other blocks like shelter will work. Same as blind.

Rickster.8752:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

I still do not see why we should be revealed on block/evade/blind, I think the writing alone in white saying “blocked/evaded/blinded” is more then enough because the text is where the thief is so surely you should be able to react to that – and backstab has close to a second after cast, it’s tactical strike that has a very short after cast time and is probably just as dangerous. Many times in duals vs thieves I predicted a dodge while they are in stealth and got the “evade” only for to turn around and CnD right back at him/her because the text told me where they were.

The ONLY thing that might be worth (nerfing) is probably tactical strikes cast time, you spam that 2 times per second so vs ages it’s going to land far easier then bs will do.

What about headshot cast time? Shouldn’t a ranged interrupt that is spammable have a cast time associated with it to make sure thieves use their brains when using it.

Well, i saw a thief yesterday going panic-mode and spamming it 3 times in a row = dead. You even understand teh usage of that skill? 1/4 stun, almost no damage and 4 initiative-cost. Its for interrupting important skills that has to be interrupted and justify the amount of initiative (being a ressource for BOTH weapon-sets).
Look at the knockdown from ranger-LB. Much longer ranger, damage and longer knockdown. Thats why its has a special animation (what headshot has, too) and moderate cooldown (15sec).

Zero Day.2594:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Hey guys. Nerf thief cause I said it.

I play ranger and they hit me too hard

so… yeah

EDIT: Oh Dark is actually giving it a try?

My interest is piqued. Very much so.

Good enough reason… added to nerf wish list!

;D

Here we go.
Pls nerf Peow peow´s thief (if he has one?). He seems to be so overpowered contrary to everyone else. Its unfair. He oneshots everything while in stealth, evading and being invincible. And not forgetting that all of his ports are always working (to close for steal ftw).

But seriously where have you been? Banned from forum?
I´m never sure if you are a troll or a thief player being annoyed about all the complaining —→ making ridiculous complain-posts

DarkSyze.8627 never even played thief? Oh sweet irony.
Pls make me the favor and play against decent players. (no, uplevels don´t count)

Laraley.7695:

Sagat.3285:

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

insanemaniac.2456:

Cynz.9437:

oh i wanna join too!

make engi kits go on CD if they are chilled D8

already happens. 1.66 secs instead of 1 is quite noticable when you play kit engi a lot.

…and imagine you’re an ele and get your attunements have 16 second cd instead of 10.
Yesterday I downed an engi and ended up with 18 seconds of chill, couldn’t cleanse it for more than half of the duration.That was fun.

Oh no!
I burn all my Cantraps!
I need to rely on signet of restoration to survive so I can’t bring Ether Renewel!
I switch out water right after Engi throws a freeze Grenade!
My Windborne Speed is on CD too!
I didn’t bring a focus for Magnetic Wave!
Because of all the mistakes I made, now I need to waste merely 16 seconds!

Cmon, give me a break. Ele has like 5 times more ways to deal with chills than most of the other classes.

Lol, first of all I was on fresh air, so no I don’t have million condi removals. Second of all, most condi removals are in attunements, if you cannot switch to the attunement, you’re not going to get the cleanse.

I use no cantrips.
Using ER over SoR is the stupidest idea I’ve ever heard. Even staff eles use SoR, because ER is that bad. If you face competenent players it will get interrupted every single time.
It wasn’t nades, it was from downstate. It was a lot of RNG, therefore I couldn’t have predicted it.
I wasn’t on staff.
I had focus, but it was on cooldown.
I didn’t do any mistakes, the only one that could be taken as a mistake was not considering I can end up with so much chill due to RNG. Using Magnetic Wave during a fight is hardly a mistake, then I’m left with one condition removal.

That’s a fresh air issue not every spec can have it all :/ and why use engi downed state when it’s RNG based :/??

Wat. It’s not only fresh air issue. For example mesmer would have even worse time with so much chill.

Why use engi downed state? Wat. You missed the point, being an ele and being affected by chill so much can lead to situations when you’re really really really screwed and die to chill. It’s multiplied by the fact attunements get affected by chill, this shouldn’t happen. And engi down state is not the only thing that can affect large amount of chill. Ice shard Stab is insane, too. If they will be able to use it twice after the rework, then eles will be getting chilled for 20 seconds and that’s insane. Reaper gets tons of chill, too.

My reply was to someone saying how they can be affected by chill when kits go from 1 sec to 1.66 recharge. Ele has it way worse than that, yet it’s the only class that has ’’weapon’’ swaps affected by chill.

Maybe you should get our information up to date. First, that iceshard is the most important thing for thieves against eles. At the right moment under a good condition its THE thing a thief needs to beat an ele. Especially D/D or staff. When the thief fails it, he needs to wait 20sekittenil being able to pressure with it again. Apart from that the developers said that they are reworking the stolen skills (removing the damage-aspect?!). My last information for example is about healing seed from ranger become half duration (double the condition-remove pulse). As a thief you normally don´t stay the full duration in the water field, because of smoke+heartseeker etc, mostly blasting it for heal. So probably the iceshard gonna be on half duration, too. ^^

zinkz.7045:

For what is OP simply look at how a class is represented.

To take the only area they seem to balance the game on – tPvP, there are 5 slots in a team between 8 classes, for the entirety of the game thief has been an automatic choice for one of those slots for nearly every decent team, objectively it is OP in tPvP.

But having 2 thieves in team is far worse than 2 warris, 2 engis, 2 eles, 2 guards. So by your philosophy they are OP…
Thieves are generally stable in pvp-teams because of their mobility.
Having 2 in your team makes the rotations a lot harder.

@DarkSyze.8627
Really? Again? Posting threads being at least 1 year old? More most of the time?
Thats like collecting data 30 years old about a disease and claiming them to be completely up to date without even reading or understanding them properly. And then there is the up to date data. In the German forum wasn´t a complain thread for at least 1 year and the ones I see here in the english one are from Peow peow.2189 (obvious troll) and you (not sure if serious). You complain and complain about how bad the game is. Why you don´t play another one? The only one happy here is Zero Day cause of the nerf-wishlist xD

It doesn´t.
Improvisation
Took me 10sec to find it

Wintersday Earmuffs are still obtainable THIS WEEK. Source. So if you want it you should get it now
The finisher is another story. It probably returns Christmas holidays. To buy in gemshop and maybe to get via reward track in pvp.

I think the ones being salty here are you and Verilan obviously…
For myself I enjoy watching good Videos. If you don´t want videos to be watched and criticized then they shouldn´t get posted.
Self proclaimed pros? lol
I never proclaimed myself as a pro. Being above average though.
Noha didn´t the same. He gave his honest answer and that should be respected exactly the same as the video.
kitten-talking about every new video posted on the forum?
I will give you 4 ones one the first 2 pages…
Akimbo Assassin Build V2
[Video] Weaponless Dueling 2
[PvP] Guide for (new) Thiefs in Ranked Arenas
My first roaming vid, D/D Thief

In the last video the same things I criticized where mentioned. He mostly was full-buffed while his oponents at least had buff food. Highlighting some moves by slowing that moments were well done. Especially for a first roaming video.
And in comparison to Tikitaka (nice name ^^) he has like 16k health. 1k difference can be made out of the acro-line. So there are 3k left. Thats far more squishy, so he gets more punished for mistakes. You get my point?
—-Forgot about Practiced Tolerance if he uses that. 2k left ^^
Videos get watched, if the people like them they say it and give a review if necessary. There are always salty people though.

Drennon.7190:

Can we rename the Thief forum to the Salty forum?

Could you explain me where we have been salty?
Its a Fact that there are better videos published by better palyers. That doesn´t mean he was the worst I saw. Every video published in the forum will be criticized. Thats the point in the hole thing. The trolling-part was somewhere funny but not spectacular and I said what I don´t like in the fight-part. There were a lot of video where the thieves where fighting palyers without buffs (food, guardstacks, whatever) so had a advantage from beginning and were running around like headless chickens. My point here, find better players, fight them and everybody will be happy watching it.
About getting rid of that D/D SA valkyrie stuff. I am totally ok with using SA on D/D. Its more difficult to play with than D/P or S/D (playing it without SA is possible of course). But you wont improve much when being so tanky with that much valkyrie-stuff. Thanks to a lot of armor, health and health-regen you don´t get punished for big mistakes. Took a lot of damage not dodging mirror blade or eviscerate (which didn´t oneshot you)? Just sit back in stealth until full regenerated. Being full zerker you just NEED to dodge what has to be dodged. And I don´t speak about oneshotting everyone with some 66200 signet-build.
At least I was glad not to see them in the video running around with their 2 condi-thieves, 1 (hybrid?) mesmer and 2-3 other thieves – group trying to gank some players.

At the end we just want to help to improve

I have to agree Noha. Trolling part was somewhere amuzing but I don´t get that excited after all the trolling-videos I saw in the past years. Hell, Yishis did it better 2 years ago with zerg-surfing. Players without even food or anything fighting full-buffed ones or going panic-mode after some hits (that warrior at 7:12 ^^).
And pls get rid of anything of valkyrie you have there. Seriously, everyone can kill players fullbuffed, shadowarts and being so tanky. I think you get like 3500 health through guard-stacks and 2 points in acrobatic. You have 5k because of valkyrie-parts? At the very end nothing special, sry. But a big +1 for the music though. I know not everyone likes it, but some years in south-america gives a nostalgic feeling :´)

What the hell?
You would pick CiS over RoS anyday? So a very usefull and powerfull trait. GM worthy? ^^
As a blind access I have to agree. D/P never really needed it cause of having a lot of blind-access through Blackpowder and shadowshot. So it was mostly used by D/D, P/D and sometimes S/D. The trait is very powerfull and I think they didn´t want to have CiS AND shadows rejuvination at the same time. Take into your mind that rejuvination is even mor powerfull now, since you have the ini-gain without even have to extra trait it (but that means D/P has it, too). So having CiS from Master AND stronger rejuvination was propably to much for the devs. Now you have to choose between CiS and rejuvination. The problem I see here is that anyone would use rejuvination so CiS would gather dust. Its to good to not use it. Normally the blind on stealth was s good because of prevent incoming CC or damage. With RoS you have around the same protection against damage, but CC would have stronger impact. I actually like that thinking behind it. If you choose the regen on stealth trait you can outheal an insane amount of damage in combination with rejuvination.
And because you don´t really need the CS line right now, you can Spec 60606 to gain a lot of damage you hadn´t before and have the strong Steal. Or you can still use CS in combination with DA and SA. Strong damage from DA, some damage and/or healing (hidden killer or invigorating precision) and SA for a strong survival. You can even go 60660 to have damage and a lot of dodges and survival through SA.

So please stop saying D/D is dead. D/D was less powerfull than D/P and S/D for a long time and gonna be it with the patch, too. But D/D isn´t only SA with CiS. You have so many possibilities. You ca have more damage AND more survival with 3 grandmasters…

I just love withdraw. Being able to use it in any direction gives the opportunity to get distance or get close to your target while healing and evading. Having a good control over the camera is essential here. If you have that you can do a hell lot of things with that heal. Making the evade from it easier to manage would propably lead to a nerf to 20sec cd. In small areas you can use a wall or something to mitigate a drawback into an unwanted direction or change weapons to cancel the roll (evade get canceled, too). And don´t forget the condiremove it has. I think withdraw is in a good spot right now. Roll of initiative is another thing though. Don´t use it because the gain of initiative is done better with signet of infiltration.

Auesis.7301:

Coronit.9432:

@Auesis
if you look closely you will se that 15% at every last traitline from every class (exception is ranger). made into minor traits. So kind of every proffession mechanic got nerfed in that way xD

“Each profession’s attributes will be updated to have half of their functionality be part of a specialization and half of their functionality will be a baseline for that profession. For example, elementalists now have a base attunement recharge of 10 seconds, which is reduced to 8.7 seconds when the arcane specialization is equipped.”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/specializations-part-one-a-primer/

From this, we can deduce that Steal will be 29.75s, most likely just rounded to 30s without Trickery (15% reduction). Another 15% reduction, followed by another 20% reduction from SoH, gets us down to 20.2-20.4, so probably 20.25 or 20.5s.

This was actually a buff.

Sounds extremely weird to me. We will see. Thanks for bringing that up though. Now the trait to reduce steal-cd for every successful dodge sound better instead of just a try to compensate.

But in that case you get buffs (proffession mechanic cd´s) when using a specific traitline. So will be there some buffs when using other lines, too?

oEnvy.3064:

Ensign.2189:

Currently an Acrobatics thief gets ~+100% more dodges than a non-Acro thief, between Feline Grace and the improved vigor uptime. Post-change, it looks like Acro is going to provide around +50% more dodges; that is, the endurance regen from stacking all the traits has roughly been cut in half.

On top of that the line has lost Fluid Strikes (-10% damage) and Power of Inertia (bunch of might stacks, enabled Strength runes).

The current iteration of Acrobatics is trash. There’s little question that you swap back to Deadly/Trickery/(Critstrikes or the new line) on S/D if it goes live as-is.

Yeah 60606 D/P is definitely going to be the dominant build. S/D acro is going to be strictly a fun build with the steal recharge trait.

Swapping back to DA? Why should you swap? With the same distribution as before (20066) you will have 60066. I don´t like critical strikes-traitline so far right now. Best thing got changed to DA. Using SA instead of acro is a possibility though. But not one I like. (played S/D SA long time ago)
You took into account the +20% Effectiveness from the minor trait? Does somebody know if its 20% duration or endurance recharges 20% faster than normal. if you look into the vigor from the traits you see 120% Endurance regeneration. Acrobatic

And don´t forget the new hard to catch which is awesome imo. Maybe changing signet of infiltration to signet of agility again. A lot of dodges and the stunbreak from infil-signet comes from hard to catch.

Not completely. You wont have that useless 300 condition damage anymore ^-^
They want to compensate for the stats-loss, but I´m completely lost how I will get that boon duration back. Putting in the Doubloons can´t be the answer…

And to withdraw being a trick now and the trick-trait. Wth? Bountifull theft is definitly better to use.

Gonna try out 60066 with S/D, but can it compete with something like 60606 D/P? Damage-wise?
Are the 10% damage in Improvisation a mistake? Looks like one to me ^^
Btw, small panicstrike nerf…
You now need to get condition-duration from somewhere to reach the same duration —> condition duration in DA removed, too.

@Auesis
if you look closely you will se that 15% at every last traitline from every class (exception is ranger). made into minor traits. So kind of every proffession mechanic got nerfed in that way xD

“Lead Attacks will now give an additional 15% cd reduction to steal”
Hm, before it was 30% from the traitline and 20% from “sleight of hands”, now 15% in that traitline and still 20% from the trait. Nerfed.

The dagger possibility to inflict more poision on AA-cain… Not sure if serious. We already have poison on the third attack and poison from steal. Not worth it imo.

Removing the Haste-part? Why not on the regular Utility, too?

Don´t stop seems to be interesting. Dodging rapid fire and some arrows between the frames gonna be evaded, too. Have to try out what is better, Quick pockets or Don´t stop.
“evade the next attack when you get Swiftness” – maybe-change – What if I already had swiftness? Or does it mean ALWAYS when getting swiftness, like on every dodge? :P

Acro master-traits will be difficult to say right now what seems to be best. being immune to conditions for 5 sec can make a difference. But I honestly like hard to catch more. Swindlers Equilibrium will be tested ^^

What I´m really concerned of are the removal of the 10% from fluid strikes and the lack of boon duration the traitline was given before.

S/D acro
A lot of efficiency comes from that Boon duration. Overall a nerf to the dodge ability imo at the moment. I was running S/D with pack since a long time ago, swapping between pack and strength runes a lot and without that much boon duration and power of inertia removed I think pack will get better in that point.

Against enemys with equal skill? No specc will do that.
Against enemys with terrible skill? Every specc will do it.
Against enemys with the average wvw-level? Thats a little bit different…
Easiest specc would be P/D condi, followed by D/P SA most likely. But I don´t recommend them both. Their skill-floor is pretty low. You will have success, yes, but won´t get better.
In general I think D/P panicstrike could do well for you. The condiremove in SA can help a lot against classes with high and heavy hitting access to conditions (very very common in wvw ^^). D/P executioner can do it, too. Is far more difficult though.
Even a well played D/D specc can make it. But it lacks on some things.
My favourite is still S/D acro in different types. When you know what the classes and speccs your enemys are using you can outplay them, dance around them and kill them (yeah, random-dodging works, too).
At the end you should decide for your own what YOU want to play and learn. Like i said above, you will kill the bad ones and the good ones will give you interesting fights. You will learn much more from last ones.
Apart from this…kill the squishy ones first, look what speccs they are playing (is the food condition, bunker or zerker theme?), be aware of medi-guards, are there players you know from previous fights and that you can or can´t kill them? Kill them quickly if its the first type or ask them for 1vs1 when its the second one. Learn from them.

Toxsa.2701:

Just 2 thieves (1 burst, 1 venom sharing), add that with 3 additional players with random profession, then you’ll crash all roamers…

I saw it way too often during T1 roaming zzz.

It’s really broken that 2 thieves can easily achieve group permenant stealth, and 1 venomer is able to make all 5 allies so deadly.

Well, you know that thieves are upset about a lack of teamsupport since headstart?
If I don´t forget one, granting stealth to allies, boons through trickery or venomshare are our ways in direct support. You just insulted two of them to be broken. Maybe they are, maybe not. But they are our way to help allies. Stealth for ambushes/advantage of surprise or retreating/rezzing. Venomshare for heavy pressure, especially on called targets. I agree that they can be very strong if used correctly. A refuge at the wrong moment can screw you heavily though. Venomshare is a very interesting thing. Used it just the last weekend after a friend requested for it in a 3vs3. Used devourer and basilisk-venom. With the correct focus the target is dead, when failing in escaping.
You are talking here about 5 people what I wouldn´t consider roaming. Its more smallscale with the goal to kill the same or more numbers of enemy. In that case if the team plays well, they can of course take out target with the help of venomshare. The problem I see here consists in growing numbers of enemys and the lack of sustain of the venomshare-thief. Don´t get me wrong. You can still achieve stuff, but not as good as another class imo.
So about crashing roamers… With 5 people (1 burst, 1 venomshare, 2-3 more) you should do that everyday. Roamers are at 1-3 people normally ^^
I think you should know how many rangers are often in that groups of 5. A little bit rapidfire here and there and some lonely roamers die. What if you encounter 2 good medi-guards while being on the way while being both thieves (I assume 2 people here). Normally thats a big advantage in direction to the guards as being a known counter. Of course you can always run away and seek for easier targets, but I don´t like that. When I meet an enemy player, I fight him, with little retreats here and there. Only if I tried and think its useless I try to disengage. Thats why I like to go around with D/D ele, too. They are great in fights as giving good support, dealing a lot of damage, granting heal and have great mobility. Especially in combination with a thief
In general you can use every combination of classes that have good mobility. Thieves are still at a high spot, so a very good class to roam with. So are mesmers with traveler-runes, engis, eles, warris.

I don´t say that thieves are bad for roaming, its the place they shine. Their ability to stealth let them use a hell lot of guerrilla-tactics. Here I think they fulfill there class-design. I don´t consider stealth to be broken by itself. It gives the game a very interesting flavor of ambush and surprise. Good players can deal with that. Bad ones doesn´t. Despite that the use of SA is the biggest problem and the reason of so much QQ. Its low risk, high reward. You can have a lot of armor and health and still dish out high damage. I fight them because I fight everyone. But its as boring as fighting a P/D condi-specc or full-bunker-builds and when you ancounter an average player behind a D/P SA build that player survives endless.

When I think about that post I don´t really remember what I want to achieve, very tired ^^
You can always run as 2 thieves in wvw with D/P critical-executioner and oneshot every single roamer you ancounter or with D/P SA and survive everything. But be aware of having to run away from condi-speccs or player just ignoring you because of being in stealth all the time.
At the end I recommend you (the OP) to try out some combinations you two are playing and decide on what gives you the most fun. mesmer and warri can be great, too. Clones could give some cover for the warri. But I can never ever recommend you to run PU-mesmer, its not fun and a great bunch of people will just walk away. D/D thief is a little bit difficult, but can still be great in wvw, when you see and use the possibilities like walls and ambient creatures for your C&D.

Nephrite.6954:

Zero Day.2594:

Looked through the nerf wish list…
The stability has a loose relation to:

Maugetarr.6823:

Originally by: Thedenofsin.7340

What: Consume Plasma
Why: Thieves are not designed to get boons. Getting boons makes them OP.

Thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/sPvP-Consume-Plasma-Overpowered/first#post3588687

And the possible teleport/mobility nerf:

girien.1209:

Originally by: Leeto.1570

What: Thief Mobility!
Why: As a many necro, the thief mobility its a problem for me. I can kill the thief spamming scepter autoattacks.(https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Thief-requires-serious-redesign/first#post3932590) But the thief come back quickly!!! PLS nerf.
Suggestion: Maybe 3s autostun after a TP, or permasnare or better, quit the shortbow and give the thief a walker or a wheelchair!

Thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Thief-requires-serious-redesign

ricky.2679:

Originally by: BrunoBRS.5178

What: Thief Mobility
Why: Isn’t it obvious thieves move too much in combat and teleport and evade all over the place. This makes it hard for other classes to 1shot their health. The solution is simple nerf all of thieves teleports increasing the initiative cost. Also add huge aftercasts to every thief skill so they can be sitting ducks for all the passive no skill classes to kill.

Thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Thief-combat-mobility-is-too-much/page/3#post4313421

:D I hope these people come back to the game to enjoy it now.

Wow those people… Just wow I didn’t even bother to continue reading cause of how predictable they are. These people are seriously wow… Lol I’ve never complained ONCE! About the classes being overpowered but these guys sighs guys I think we’ve found a permanent way to ruin spvp for good. One way that will never be “nerfed”, the Whiners Way.

You haven´t seen the sarcasm there, didn´t you? Sad to add that there are really a lot of people who think that way. Like saying C&D with port would be an exploit. Not sure where it was, but I´m serious.

@Elitist.8701
same here, if infil-signet goes through this, agility will be superior imo. Not sure if going back to strength runes or stay on pack though. We will see :/

SoulSin.5682:

Problem about centaurs is that you are forced to waste a heal for swiftness sake.

Keeping your heal always on cooldown is a terribad idea.
In the end I changed from centaur to traveler.

Full Bersek with runes of speed is also a great combination, and cheaper.
Almost permanent swiftness and a good speed bonus to boot.

I don´t no if the “idea” of using for example a quaggan-tonic to trigger the effect still works though. And come on, we are talking about wvw, you can run across half the map until encounter an enemy. I almost always use forward withdraw to gain vigor for more dodges. Together with pack/acro- and sharpeningstone-boon duration i gain like 4sec with ONE dodge. Do that in aregular way together with using steal without target to gain 18sec swiftness and you can stack around 30-40sec.
And then you get the nice power/precision/fury (and even more swiftnes.
Pack all the way