I think it is your personal rating vs overall rating of enemy team. You notice it if you queue with someone higher or lower than your rating – you will gain different amount of points.
I think what is really wrong about it is that game doesn’t consider that you often have to carry players way below your rating vs players of your or even higher rating (yes, it is a thing, did some research on players i get in my matches). So not only you are put in matches you are guaranteed to lose, the game also thinks that you had fair match and deduces points accordingly.
I can kind of understand that it is to prevent MM manipulation (e.g. queue with lower rank to get easier matches and still gain same amount of points) BUT as long as matchmaking doesn’t provide fair matches (which it simply doesn’t, apparently overall rating difference of 50-300 is acceptable) i think it should at least somehow consider set up of your team and not just your personal rating.
Time to act. All fair minded players need to support this initiative. For too long have these professions kept the others down with their op kitten.
Warrior = too much sustain for the mad burst.
Thief = way too much sustain and evasion for the mad dps. It warps the game and is way too good.
Mesmer = too much invuln whilst they pump out passive condis.
My proposals:
Reduce pulmonary impact damage by 25%. Passive dps should not be so good when thief has a spammable insta cast ranged interrupt. Like really…
The shield block on mesmer needs fixing to not slow the enemy, it does way too much
Mesmer distortion is too long in duration. Increase cooldowm to 1 minute.
warrior is annoying. Reduce the damage of greatsword whirl by 25% and also f1 mace should not apply blind and 3 stacks of bleed not 4
these are minor nerfs. But they will help for fairness.
where?
also it is not passive if you have to actively interrupt something~
it is not spammable due to ini limitation~
tbh i think the divisions finally have the prestige they deserve
and it shouldnt be changed
you pretty much see only real active pvpers in the top 50 in EU
and i think someone doing pvp only should have something to show in comparison to people who like pvp too but dont focus everything on it
only problem that i agree on is with alt accounts taking spots :/
That’s funny, because it has the opposite effect. Most people rightly think the top players are exploiters.
The top 10 is more like a wall of shame. The top 250? Not much better.
you really think the current top 10 on EU is wall of shame? cause if you read my post i was talking about EU
it is only main accs in top 10 and basically all top tier players and almost all of them have played in and some won in the big tournaments
I noticed that NA has like 4 accounts in top 5 that have only 13-15 games played and only playing 1 game every 3 days it seems which is stupid yes
Guess a more punishing (maybe 5-20 permanent per day – for example increasing over time of inactivity and starting on 2nd day already instead of 4th) decay system would really help here
The NA players clutter EU LBs as well with alt accounts, ran yesterday into EZ PZ members on EU :s
It is not small, issue is alt accounts and wintrading/dodging/sniping/afking for season which leads to team of lower ranks (e.g. 1700) facing legendary ranks (yes, it is a thing) consistently.
Problem is, even if you win vs legends, the rating gains are extremely low in comparison, the losses are still huge which makes climbing extremely slow. Winning vs legend with lower ranks requires a lot of effort which is not rewarded by the system at all.
Why is it a problem? Well let’s assume player A is actually legend quality player but placed in 1700, he has to win A LOT of games to even get somewhere near legend. Thing is, he won’t win so many matches in a row simply because not every teammate he gets is as good or better than legend players he faces. Thus amount of legend players is so limited.
Obviously situation on NA is worse due to all the problems there discussed on reddit way too many. I really wish Anet did something about such (borderline) illegal actions (e.g. paying gold for afk) but they probably won’t.
Druid AA does it too and yes druid can actually see it and can tell your position even across the map, it ignores stealth too. Makes my job as thief pure nightmare.
It’s a client side problem. If it’s on your screen it’s probably not on anyone else’s.
Nah, i had that ranger following me around despite me being in stealth for 20 sec. He admitted he could see the beam and followed me.
Druid AA does it too and yes druid can actually see it and can tell your position even across the map, it ignores stealth too. Makes my job as thief pure nightmare.
It is a skill that shows up as an icon for the DH when it is active. You can position yourself so you are near LOS if you can’t dodge it. They can’t pull you through walls. If you are a thief you should have more than enough tools to deal with it and move on to the next fight. Unless you are +1ing, trying to get a DH camped on a node as a thief probably isn’t the best play on the map.
Yes they can, look at screenshot, i got pulled into pillar when i tried to LoS it and use shs.
It is also stupidly easy to pull people into terrain in certain areas in pvp maps, LOS will actually get you stuck in walls.
On graveyard point LoS is pointless, you will just get pulled over/around the walls there.
DH pull reminds me sooo much on how broken Road’s hook is in OW atm which hits and pulls you through walls (that is in the game that actually requires aiming to land skills) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOkjhP7p1BQ . The only upside is that at least it doesn’t make you being stuck in terrain like DHs pull does.
If I had to cry op about anything on warrior it would be Bloody Roar/Arc Divider.
If I had to nerf anything it would be the 2 passive stance traits.
This ^^. Also Krait runes 6th bonus should be applied on hit, not just aoe that completely ignores dodges and LoS.
I honestly don’t understand how can people bring up weakness or blind as argument as war is sitting in resistance or blocks or in endure pain most of the time. CC is not really an option as…. they also have pulsing stab. The window where you can actually do damage to the war w/o getting instantly murdered by him is stupidly small and even if you did some damage to them, they will just regen it all back really quick during their just another block/endure pain/resistance frame. It is not like warrior is just sitting afk there doing nothing – the damage pressure from warrior is insane w/o loss of suvivability.
The only successful way to kill war is to have thief and necro train him at the same time – it is 2 players vs 1….. The only downside war has atm is obviously lack of team support, lack of AoE beside 1 shot arc and lack of teleports (not that they need it due to being point fighter).
Also pulls should be able to be evaded as otherwise they allow the snaring player to set up a spike and pull a player into it when he chooses ignoring most defenses such as block and evade which are canceled.
Yep, that’s the point. And pull doesn’t ignore stability or a well-placed stun-break (aka, the counterplay). Think for a moment about what you’re arguing: What is essentially a single-target pull on a 40s cd will become completely useless just because someone without adequate skill playing one class (thief) can’t counterplay well enough.
Stun break can’t be used while being pulled because for the game you are in the air thus not allowed to use spells. Happens 90% of the time due to uneven terrain. Same goes for spells that give stability, you would need to activate stab before the pull.
Bugs in the code are not a reason to nerf or buff a skill. If you are pulled by any pull skill on relatively flat ground, you can stunbreak it. I’ve seen thieves do this many times. In fact, one thief I was chasing in wvw did this 3 times over the course of two minutes. Literally every time I pulled, he didn’t even get pulled into my symbol/trap range since he’d have a stunbreak or shadowstep ready.
Have done exactly same thing as you described about this thief – except it landed me in the map terrain/pillars etc. so i was forced to relog or was launched high in the air and instantly died to fall dmg (and it was on flat terrain of graveyard point of Foefire map, couldn’t get more flat). It happens A LOT, especially if you consider that there is little flat terrain in pvp on first place (i don’t even want to start on infamous no valid path bug plaguing half of the surface of pvp maps).
My point is, this spell has been extremely buggy for over year now giving DHs way too much of advantage and nothing has been done about it (and yes, i have made threads about it before – 0 reaction). Some DHs actually intentionally exploit it – there are spots where you are guaranteed to pull someone into terrain and force them to relog.
Idc what they do to the spell as long as it fixes all the unintended features that heavily favors DHs.
That’s funny after a year of pulling people make once I’ve stuck someone. And they thought it was funny. Launches? Have you not played skyrim? Giant launches are the best.
You act like this skill is a lone offender when almost any push, pull or teleport can cause these effects. Yeah I’ve popped people in the air but it’s still a rare occurrence. Like 1 in 1000. Imo not something that screams drop everything and fix me. Especially when it has great comic value for both sides.
And yet oddly enough it happens to me a lot and only with DH pull. It is great comic value for DH maybe, for the target it can cost match since they are forced to relog causing 4v5 or die to fall dmg and lose point that they needed to win match. This bug cost me way too many fights and matches so it could be just “ignored”. Anet had whole year to fix it and didn’t even bother.
The only other time i ever got pushed into terrain was when there was rev bug with UA.
Also pulls should be able to be evaded as otherwise they allow the snaring player to set up a spike and pull a player into it when he chooses ignoring most defenses such as block and evade which are canceled.
Yep, that’s the point. And pull doesn’t ignore stability or a well-placed stun-break (aka, the counterplay). Think for a moment about what you’re arguing: What is essentially a single-target pull on a 40s cd will become completely useless just because someone without adequate skill playing one class (thief) can’t counterplay well enough.
Stun break can’t be used while being pulled because for the game you are in the air thus not allowed to use spells. Happens 90% of the time due to uneven terrain. Same goes for spells that give stability, you would need to activate stab before the pull.
Bugs in the code are not a reason to nerf or buff a skill. If you are pulled by any pull skill on relatively flat ground, you can stunbreak it. I’ve seen thieves do this many times. In fact, one thief I was chasing in wvw did this 3 times over the course of two minutes. Literally every time I pulled, he didn’t even get pulled into my symbol/trap range since he’d have a stunbreak or shadowstep ready.
Have done exactly same thing as you described about this thief – except it landed me in the map terrain/pillars etc. so i was forced to relog or was launched high in the air and instantly died to fall dmg (and it was on flat terrain of graveyard point of Foefire map, couldn’t get more flat). It happens A LOT, especially if you consider that there is little flat terrain in pvp on first place (i don’t even want to start on infamous no valid path bug plaguing half of the surface of pvp maps).
My point is, this spell has been extremely buggy for over year now giving DHs way too much of advantage and nothing has been done about it (and yes, i have made threads about it before – 0 reaction). Some DHs actually intentionally exploit it – there are spots where you are guaranteed to pull someone into terrain and force them to relog.
Idc what they do to the spell as long as it fixes all the unintended features that heavily favors DHs.
Also pulls should be able to be evaded as otherwise they allow the snaring player to set up a spike and pull a player into it when he chooses ignoring most defenses such as block and evade which are canceled.
Yep, that’s the point. And pull doesn’t ignore stability or a well-placed stun-break (aka, the counterplay). Think for a moment about what you’re arguing: What is essentially a single-target pull on a 40s cd will become completely useless just because someone without adequate skill playing one class (thief) can’t counterplay well enough.
Stun break can’t be used while being pulled because for the game you are in the air thus not allowed to use spells. Happens 90% of the time due to uneven terrain. Same goes for spells that give stability, you would need to activate stab before the pull.
You realize that match stats heavily favor bunkers/bruisers? Roamers almost never get stats due to… well roaming (given balanced match they will never have high dmg because half of the time they are roaming, same goes for healing, revives etc.). +1 never awards any stats simply because you jump in, down someone and run off – you don’t exactly get much credit for it. Your teammate is dying, you drop stealth for him and save him – it won’t show up on stats. Peeling for teammates is not shown on stats. Keeping 3 enemies busy on beach is not shown on stats. Roamers have huge impact on game but it is not registered.
OK, solve me this riddle. I was at around 1900, won some games vs top 10s even and all. Did some games at late night, would gain 4 lose 20 pts. Then i had never ending loss streak for a week or so, i simply couldn’t win a game, it was constant 1v5 that i even dropped from plat 3 to gold 2. Ok, i guess i am bad and should be in gold right? Well, eventually loss streak ended and i got back to plat (plat 2 atm). MMR and matchmaking working? SSssssureeee.
Let’s not forget how it pulls you high in the air so you die to fall damage, pulls you through the walls so you are stuck inside objects and have to relog, you also can’t use stun break while being pulled because the game thinks you are in the air while being pulled. Yep, totally balanced and not buggy at all for basically instant cast 1200 pull.
It has been like this for seasons now. Worst part, most use Krait runes that goes through dodges. Avoiding dmg is not viable vs warrior. You can only cleanse/transfer + crapload of heals if you want to win vs them. And to win vs warrior you need absurd amount of time due to passives + zerker stance + endre pain. By that time you probably lost the point anyway because warrior’s teammate showed up.
Rank is meaningless. The only thing that should happen is that new account doesn#t get average MMR – otherwise new players get losses after losses since they are placed above their ability.
Then here is thing like alt accounts. My second account is only rank 30? – doesn’t change the fact that i can win most fights on it because i have thousands games of experience on main account.
If you noticed guardian is overplayed this season. ANet follows exactly the same balancing pattern blizzard does with their pvp balancing:
1. Profession is op.
2. Nerf it to the ground.
3. Professions is crap.
4. Make it op.
5. Call it balance.
In pvp I see no mesmers, I see no engineers, I see no elementalists. Everyone plays guardian or ranger. Next season those two will get nerfed, other classes will get buffed out of proportion and the entire process will repeat itself. We will be whining on forums that profession x is no longer viable and profession y is op by design.
Maybe they just want us to buy additional character slots just to create the profession of the season and go the easy way?
And main problem with guardian right now is even if the player sucks he still can be quite dangerous.
Except last season was flooded with DHs (up to 4 per team) and the changes that needed to happen, didn’t happen. They still dominate majority of the ladder.
Around 1800+ atm. I would say, as in any other thread, besides the HoT introducing mindless gameplay, the major issue in matches atm is class stacking. Classes are designed around non-class stacking, some spells/traits/builds are really strong but stacked just become absurdly broken that you can’t deal with by any normal way. Class stacking needs to go – yes, it will introduce longer queue times, but i would rather sit in longer queue than sit in 15 min match that i simply won’t win due to bad class balance across the teams (3 thieves vs 3 dhs/2 engis).
for someone that has “WTS Boston winner” in his signature you shouldnt complain about facing good players LOL
His complain is not that he is facing good players, his complain is that teams are put together with huge skill gaps, e.g. 1 team has 4 ESL players and 1 potato where other team has 1 ESL player and 4 potatoes. The outcome is pretty obvious. Idk why he thinks it is new, when it has been like this for years,if you played solo.
“terrible experience in new system”
… except it has been like this for years, OP. If you would have played solo mainly, you would notice it. If you played solo in higher tiers in first weeks of last seasons, it was exactly the same as well. There were few good players and rest potatoes and whatever team got more of the same potatoes would lose.
Surely, there is Evan posting on forums consistently that forced 50% winrate doesn’t exist, surely some will say “git good”. Bit stacked teams, forced losses (sry, 500-100 match is a forced loss/win) has been there since launch basically. Absurd class imbalance and class stacking isn’t helping either.
The only difference is that removal of teams vs solo and change to number rating (vs pip) just made the issue more visible.
The issue is not even 1 DH but when they start to stack that is when things get really stupid. Yeah, you may kill them eventually but it will take really long time and you will certainly lose point and eventually the game. Class stacking needs to be removed from pvp.
1. agree with skyhammer, the whole no valid path bug that has been plaguing this map for years was never fixed and as thief main i really hated Anet’s decision to add it back to ranked. Pretty clear they don’t even test out things with thief class (look at LS, look at new maps, fractals, raids).
2. double duoq vs full solo really shouldn’t be a thing
3. I faced rank 1 player with his duo partner yesterday, we won but the points gain was so minimal despite him and his friend being 300 pts above us………..
I sill see major issue in class stacking being a thing. Considering balancing team adjusts classes around NON-class stacking, stacking of some classes on same team leads to really lopsided and unenjoyable games. Certainly, we can reroll (if we can) BUT 1. it is work around poor decisions from dev team 2. i may be able to reroll but i can’t force other players to do so. Anet really needs to decide on their politics: either they stop balancing classes around non-stacking or they prevent class stacking. I would rather have longer queue times than have 3 thieves on my team vs 3 DHs on enemies.
You don’t get all shards in 1 day not to mention you can do quick fractal runs (t4 is not that hard really) and couple raid bosses if you are in a guild. You also have chance to get ascended from reward boxes. I geared few characters for raiding with barely any crafting done actually.
i know all of this and have been doing it alot i have over 50 chests in my bank ascended gear isnt an issue for me it still doesnt change the fact pvp is basically giving end game gear for free, you also made no point in your response.
How is it for free? If it is for free then the gear you can buy for magnetite shards is also for free (there are actually groups that farm certain encounter for shards lol)…… You need to play a lot of pvp matches to get enough shards to be able to buy few pieces – that is hardly free. That is a lot of time spend – how is it different to multilooting AB or running mindless zerg in WvW?
You said you can get whole set in 1 day – you can’t. It was my point. You also can’t buy full set since amount of shards you can get is capped.
I assume the rewards reset each season. So if the system remains next season, you can probably get more shards. I still don’t see an issue – you have guaranteed way to get ascended gear. Only other way atm is to buy from vendors for ridiculous amount of currency (raids, bloodstones etc.) or craft it.
if you team can win with you afk or disconnected for 2+ minutes, you don’t deserve any points because you were being carried anyway. I’m all for harsh punishments for afkers and DC’ers.
You are inferring he is bad because he was DCed? Maybe, if he was playing the entire time, they would have won faster. Perhaps the other team was just that bad. You can’t assume he was carried without knowing how well he plays. Don’t be a kitten.
It doesn’t matter. In 99% cases 4v5 is a loss. The system can’t see whether he is leaver, troll, afker or just dc’d. He took too long to load in, his team had to carry 4v5 match – he does not deserve any points tbh. And 40 min is rather mild punishment. If Anet was to remove it, then people would abuse it a lot (like they did in s1 for example).
You do not get the point. The issue is no existence of punishment but a lack of clear information what to expect. We do not know if we get punished and for how long till the match ends. I would like to know what I risk before I join ranked.
You are welcome to suggest Anet a technical solution for such issue that wouldn’t involve ridiculous investments.
As far as general info goes, i think it is pretty clear what to expect when you continue to dc/leave matches.
Also, i would like to add that i lost countless matches due to leavers/afk/dc and i have yet to receive dishonor for dc’ing from match. It is not like i haven’t dcd’d before but i got in match pretty fast. Don’t play on toaster? Get better internet connection? If you are generally lagging, just don’t queue for ranked till issue is fixed.
As long as other classes don’t get toned down (especially in survivability department) we do need PI. If you don’t like PI, you are welcome to go play core thief in pvp and tell us how it went for you (i really do hope OP that you are not in bronze).
Who knows how any of it works. Not entirely sure Anet does either. It’s such a silly system that if a group of randoms loses a game, you lose rating no matter what. You can play like a God, be absolutely flawless in everything, win 1v2, win 1v3, doesn’t matter you still lose rating. A ridiculous and frustrating system.
To be fair, it is possible to carry in GW2, especially if you duoq. Try out OW (6v6) ranked – the way heroes and matches are designed you can be top player and still can’t carry in bronze there. GW2 is bit different story due to class design (CC, escapes, invuls etc. give you necessary time) – i bet Zan can win 1v4 in low ratings w/o breaking a sweat. Last seasons i could win 1v3 encounters as a thief in lower divisions. Last season i effectively won 1v4 match because 4 ppl on my team were afk all match on one point and never left it.
Whether player should be constantly forced to “hardcarry” to climb is different issue.
You can carry against bad players. I can 1:3 with my ele against rookies quite easy and will even down them.
But as soon as you oponents can play their class and know how to rotate you can´t carry. You win a duel if you are better but you won´t survive 1:2 and you won´t win the 2:2 with the bad player at your side, that dies on cleave or is down in 2 seconds after a DH pull. So if the oposing team has 5 average and you have 3 average one god and on victim, the team with the bad one is mostly doomed to loose even with total rating the same or slightly better.
As i said, it is different story why you should be forced to hard carry bad players to be able to climb.
You don’t get all shards in 1 day not to mention you can do quick fractal runs (t4 is not that hard really) and couple raid bosses if you are in a guild. You also have chance to get ascended from reward boxes. I geared few characters for raiding with barely any crafting done actually.
They did do a balance patch before the season 5 started tho. They add a condi amulet and a condi rune plus nerfed Rev, buffed Thief sets that nobody uses and won’t use anyway, and other things as well.
fix’d.
On topic, they did some balancing before the season started. We might see more, since they finally started to split skills. I am assuming they are testing it out (on us lol) atm.
Yeah, let’s go back to the horrible way things were before, with premades fighting pugs. Those were great days! MAKE GUILD WARS 2 GREAT AGAIN!
Or you can adapt and encourage Anet to keep this system and introduce a 3+ man queue. That’ll work well too once these great changes bring back more players.
Precisely! Well said.
Not well said at all. Are you guys reading? When we talk about wanting a team queue, we want a 5v5 only Team Queue, separate from Solo/Duo Queue. Nobody gives a kitten about stomping pug groups, so stop bringing that up already when it has nothing to do with the goals of this thread.
Who knows how any of it works. Not entirely sure Anet does either. It’s such a silly system that if a group of randoms loses a game, you lose rating no matter what. You can play like a God, be absolutely flawless in everything, win 1v2, win 1v3, doesn’t matter you still lose rating. A ridiculous and frustrating system.
To be fair, it is possible to carry in GW2, especially if you duoq. Try out OW (6v6) ranked – the way heroes and matches are designed you can be top player and still can’t carry in bronze there. GW2 is bit different story due to class design (CC, escapes, invuls etc. give you necessary time) – i bet Zan can win 1v4 in low ratings w/o breaking a sweat. Last seasons i could win 1v3 encounters as a thief in lower divisions. Last season i effectively won 1v4 match because 4 ppl on my team were afk all match on one point and never left it.
Whether player should be constantly forced to “hardcarry” to climb is different issue.
I am curious how MMR changes based on wins and losses. How many games does it take to actually see the difference? Info from a dev (cough Evan, cough) would be nice~
From my experience so far (i have alt account) you need at least 100 ranked games to notice change in quality of players. In first 100 games or so on alt account i would just destroy anything on my way, after 100 or so games the “hard carry” games started to happen.
if you team can win with you afk or disconnected for 2+ minutes, you don’t deserve any points because you were being carried anyway. I’m all for harsh punishments for afkers and DC’ers.
You are inferring he is bad because he was DCed? Maybe, if he was playing the entire time, they would have won faster. Perhaps the other team was just that bad. You can’t assume he was carried without knowing how well he plays. Don’t be a kitten.
It doesn’t matter. In 99% cases 4v5 is a loss. The system can’t see whether he is leaver, troll, afker or just dc’d. He took too long to load in, his team had to carry 4v5 match – he does not deserve any points tbh. And 40 min is rather mild punishment. If Anet was to remove it, then people would abuse it a lot (like they did in s1 for example).
I think it has something to do with your hidden MMR and visual rating. I get less and less rating with which win (in plat atm), it went so far 40-37-32-26-20 for each win, i assume i gonna get like 14 on next lol. I lose around 40 per loss. My friend is getting around 10 per win lol.
In OW there is similar… effect. If you climbed higher than your actual hidden MMR you will get abysmal amount of SR (skill rating) and will lose a lot until your MMr catches up (if you continue to win).
I don’t understand how this was supposed to be more indicative of your personal ability. You already have the framework for “Top Kills, Top Heal, Top Defense”. . .just use those.
Ideally, the people who are at the TOP of their games, will continually move up. . .
It doesn’t need to be that complicated.
Because top stats don’t necessary say much. For example as guard or ele you can kill necro minions 24/7 and get insane dmg numbers because of it but not actually kill anyone, as thief you do lowest dmg in game but the dmg you do actually scores kills.
The game is also not as great at tracking buffs like tranq or constant decaps.
What if enemy is trying to kill your Lord and you will lose match if you don’t defend it – you won’t get great stats for it but you probably saved the match for your team.
What if someone is training your necro and you peel for them and then run off to decap – you also won’t get great stats despite saving the fight and the match.
My friend is dying and i drop stealth for him to save him – it won’t show up on stats.
Those stats are very unforgiving for roamers from my experience so far. Most common i get ironically are rezzes for teammates (lol sr) and kills when i am running like murder machine around. My friend plays engi – he usually ends up with 4 stats every match. We do our jobs, just in different ways but stats don’t reflect it.
40 min is not that bad. Think about it this way: you caused 4v5, chances are you would have never come back. You could have wasted other players time and rating. 1 match lost if someone leaves, to make up for it you would need to play another match = ca. 40 including queue times.
I could, but I did not. I joined back. We won. Teammates got pips + rating up. I got penalty.
You joined too late, the system flagged you as leaver.
