Guild Wars 2

Krysard.1364:

Eu teams can scrim Na teams and viceversa cause they have free server migration, so not sure if this a decisive factor

Dat lag tho~

Kuya.6495:

Cynz.9437:

Supreme.3164:

Tringsh.2380:

It really annoys me when people say ‘high risk high reward’ the fact is it’s high risk low reward, I’m not rewarded for taking a higher skill cap class, it’s just too easy to pop invulnerability or bunker to defeat the class.

As the OP stated you can use another class with less skill and murder thiefs. I have no problem with disengaging but I can literally reset a fight 5 times and still not get some classes below half health. It’s certainly ball ache trying to finish off some classes with the amount of blocks available.

It’s also ridiculously hard fighting on point which people expect from our class…

Some professions have blocks because they can’t reset the fight 5 times and they have invulnerability because otherwise they get roflstomped by a profession that can reset fight 5 times, if in 5 times you can’t get somebody below 50%..the problem is you and definitely not the thief.

If you complain about professions blocking or going invulnerable..then maybe we should reduce the number of their blocks….while giving them Stealth, thief mobility how that sound?

You talk like thieves and other classes are on same level lol

Other classes do have mobility and stealth (e.g. druid) while being more bunkery. I also would like to remind you on revs which are thieves on crack.

Uh, no. Druids do not have thf mobility. Revs do though but without the stealth.

Druids have enough mobility to keep points covered (RTL on 15 sec cd) and their pets (main source of dmg) teleport on top of target. Revs don’t need stealth – they already outperform thieves.

Supreme.3164:

Tringsh.2380:

It really annoys me when people say ‘high risk high reward’ the fact is it’s high risk low reward, I’m not rewarded for taking a higher skill cap class, it’s just too easy to pop invulnerability or bunker to defeat the class.

As the OP stated you can use another class with less skill and murder thiefs. I have no problem with disengaging but I can literally reset a fight 5 times and still not get some classes below half health. It’s certainly ball ache trying to finish off some classes with the amount of blocks available.

It’s also ridiculously hard fighting on point which people expect from our class…

Some professions have blocks because they can’t reset the fight 5 times and they have invulnerability because otherwise they get roflstomped by a profession that can reset fight 5 times, if in 5 times you can’t get somebody below 50%..the problem is you and definitely not the thief.

If you complain about professions blocking or going invulnerable..then maybe we should reduce the number of their blocks….while giving them Stealth, thief mobility how that sound?

You talk like thieves and other classes are on same level lol

Other classes do have mobility and stealth (e.g. druid) while being more bunkery. I also would like to remind you on revs which are thieves on crack.

What do you play?

apharma.3741:

Cynz.9437:

apharma.3741:

Kolly.9872:

When even a world tournment is not enough as a proof that thief is in the worst spot regarding gw2 balance. When even the few of the best thieves rerolled to other classes. Well than it’s a lost fight anyway.
People will never admit that thief needs badly help in the current state.

The problem is no-one wants to return to a meta where a thief completely dictates how the match goes through excessive mobility. While thief may not be the star of the show it once was in PvP it is unquestionably the highest DPS on medium/small targets in PvE while having easier rotations and OK support to boot. In WvW they are still great in small groups ganking people and running away only really suffering in serve which many other classes suffer from too. This means it’s unlikely to see too much change as it isn’t hurting in all game modes unlike at the launch of HoT where it was not very well represented across the board.

More buffs to thief is not the answer either, a good long look at diversifying it and making it about more than just damage, stealth and mobility is what is needed.

Thieves are Op, revs are fine. Ok lol.

I didn’t say revs are fine, don’t be that guy.

The sum up of your message does. Any buffs to thief would be a problem, meanwhile revs are thieves on crack and everyone is fine with it~

US has 1.5? good teams, EU has few. Ofc EU would have better practice opportunities.

apharma.3741:

Kolly.9872:

When even a world tournment is not enough as a proof that thief is in the worst spot regarding gw2 balance. When even the few of the best thieves rerolled to other classes. Well than it’s a lost fight anyway.
People will never admit that thief needs badly help in the current state.

The problem is no-one wants to return to a meta where a thief completely dictates how the match goes through excessive mobility. While thief may not be the star of the show it once was in PvP it is unquestionably the highest DPS on medium/small targets in PvE while having easier rotations and OK support to boot. In WvW they are still great in small groups ganking people and running away only really suffering in serve which many other classes suffer from too. This means it’s unlikely to see too much change as it isn’t hurting in all game modes unlike at the launch of HoT where it was not very well represented across the board.

More buffs to thief is not the answer either, a good long look at diversifying it and making it about more than just damage, stealth and mobility is what is needed.

Thieves are Op, revs are fine. Ok lol.

Aeolus.3615:

Cynz.9437:

Aeolus.3615:

Air atunement is a good source for damage builds and Elementalist/Tempest still do very good damage, Cynz.9437…. thief u need to know how to troll target with a gimmick build, issue with thiefs comes from between the chair and the computer, and most play thief like they are playing a warrior with stealth….

With thief there is a rendering issue where a group can gank with delayed rendering to the oponent, i think it is a rpetty valid tactic tho, it is fun to get surprised by that.

Power Ranger does alot of range damage on single target, Rangers need to know about LoS and position to not get hitted by players with gap closers, altough a good design for ranger would be less easy damage and more CC on single target.

God, i love all those people that call other bad because they have different opinion. Yeah thief is sooo great that every thief main switched to revs in tourneys. According to you even top players have l2p issue eh? Thief is ok vs average/bad players, vs good players/especially coordinated team you are useless, if your team can’t win team fights.

1st: im not calling bad anyone, just sayign people want to relly to much on class damage output.

2nd: spvp is a bit a diferent talk, while balance team is awfull, and pvp team is forced to remove stats from it… its very bursty that some classes with the actual sats avaliable are very dificult to play…

3rd: OP said it is used to thief alikes, as much thief is having issues arround other classes gimmick, OP does not own HoT, for sure he will try rev when he got HoT.

Orly?

Aeolus.3615:

blah blah…. issue with thiefs comes from between the chair and the computer …. blah blah

Interesting how magically other classes don’t have that “issue”.

Aeolus.3615:

Air atunement is a good source for damage builds and Elementalist/Tempest still do very good damage, Cynz.9437…. thief u need to know how to troll target with a gimmick build, issue with thiefs comes from between the chair and the computer, and most play thief like they are playing a warrior with stealth….

With thief there is a rendering issue where a group can gank with delayed rendering to the oponent, i think it is a rpetty valid tactic tho, it is fun to get surprised by that.

Power Ranger does alot of range damage on single target, Rangers need to know about LoS and position to not get hitted by players with gap closers, altough a good design for ranger would be less easy damage and more CC on single target.

God, i love all those people that call other bad because they have different opinion. Yeah thief is sooo great that every thief main switched to revs in tourneys. According to you even top players have l2p issue eh? Thief is ok vs average/bad players, vs good players/especially coordinated team you are useless, if your team can’t win team fights.

Rev fills most of your requirements.

Ele is heal bot.
Thief is worse than sub rogues begin of cata/mop expansions (remember when nobody played them and their dmg could be completely ignored? yeaa….)
Engi is doesn’t have great mobility – it is more of a bruiser fighter.
Ranger is healer with pet doing all the job.

Supreme.3164:

musu.9205:

Supreme.3164:

Tomiyou.3790:

Vykoz.7803:

Dont worry thief is balanced around the pro top 1% of players, just look at how well it performed at worlds…lol….

it was exactly like a thief in spvp, useless, getting insta gibbed, couldnt join any fights.

The opponents said themselves in interview after, they didnt really care about him, they just played their off point kill game.

So best thieves getting slaughtered and being useless, is what the balance is supposed to be, no wonder lesser players have trouble playing thieves.

Thief is useless? Wat.
Thief doesn’t work for coordinated high end pvp tournaments, cause it isn’t build for sustain (which every other class has).
Calling them useless? Bs. Thieves are very good in soloq, especially with their decap potential. I’d rather face a team full of dragonhunters, than a good thief. You can kill or outrotate DHs. A good thief will be putting pressure on 2 or even 3 points at once with its mobility, then decap, then finish ppl, stomp… Just because it’s not in meta due to dragonhunter being such a big counter to thief, doesn’t mean it’s useless.

You can’t give a sustain spec type of brawler spec to thieves..they’d broken AF, we had something similar when s/d set was buffed first time..guardians and eles got deleted from PvP for close to one year and necro was close to it. Most soloq matches were 2-3 thieves per team…a nightmare.

Thieves have Stealth and Initiative, not even counting their mobility, you can’t give them the sustain of say..a revenant

agree thieves cant have all fancy stuff .

but mes and engi have stealth as well and current meta engi build has more reliable stealth .thief still has best mobility but rev kinda replaced that role with a mes helping team rotation .

and initiative lol are u trolling ?
that’s just thief’s form of cooldown/rev energy .and lets be honest , apart of shadow bow 5 , headshot and staff 5 ,it has little advantage than normal cooldown. and a clear disadvantage being their weapons share same amount of initiative .

btw superme , ele is in almost every world champion team while u guys kept saying its worst class .its being a healbot and not many like that role, its still in meta for real .and other classes are forced into single build too . so ele players are not that special here.

Single build on thief? you have staff-d/p-s/d-d/d condi where ele is used only d/f full suicide healbot. Did you even see the build in WTS? Full shout build with zero escape.

Nobody but forum folks bother about the meta website as ESL tournament is like 10% of the whole game, there is a reason why people laugh at you when you ask buffs on thieves. We have WvW-PvE where thief is plenty represented and in PvP thief is anything but useless

Pls go on and play that full shout ele build in soloq where there is no esl team to ress/cover for you, that healbot build is as useful as the team is being used for, you won’t carry anything if your team suck balls, you can’t win any duel, you do pitiful dmg….you’re useless if your team made up of scrubs that can’t dodge.

Look here again:

The Thief

Rogues, Assassins (Shadow Dancer) or whatever you call them, the Thiefs specialize in both ranged and melee combat. Some games separate these two specialties to make way for more classes, but know that they all belong to one specific archetype. Thieves used to specialize in daggers only, but are now able to actually wield two swords similar to the Brutes. While the Brutes take damage and hit for double the pain, thieves rely on dodging and evasion due to their incompetence when it comes to vitality. Thieves also have the ability to trigger stealth, making them formidable foes, and just as the name suggests, good robbers

The description perfectly fit GW2 Thief, if you want to trade blows in a small circle…go and change class, go play warrior or dragon hunter

You know your whole logic is garbage considering pvp in this game is about point fighting? Nobody asks to be able to trade blows on point – people just ask thieves to be actually viable outside of +1/decapping of empty points which really any class can do. It wasn’t issue in first years, thieves were decent in 1v1 fights and then new devs came and decided that thieves should be forced into pet role and it just got worse and worse with years. Now as thief player you need to be 10 times better than your enemy to actually do decent and you get constantly harassed by community because nobody wants thief on their team.

forum bug does what forum bug does

Nobody wants thieves in soloq, thieves not doing well at all in WTS – meanwhile balancing team continues to spend time on finding ways how to nerf the class. Common sense – what do you eat it with?

You realize they nerfed wars/thieves to the ground at HoT launch to make “room” for revs?

It is a miracle they are playable on first place.

Supreme.3164:

People don’t use squishy builds because of thieves…
We seem to always “forget” the evasiveness, unpredictability of thieves and all the frustration that comes from fighting them.

You can engage and disengage at will like no other profession and nobody can chase you in the end

Other professions have boons, dmg redux etc etc, because they can’t stealth and reset when they feel like, some professions will be fighting to the death whether they like or not.

If you want unblockable ( steal already is…) attacks etc etc..then I want RTL nerfs reverted and Lightning flash on 15s CD with 1500 range for ele, add similar skills to necros maybe give them stealth on top

If you want what other professions have..then other professions should get what thief has and for what they’ve been nerfed before…I remember thieves asking for nerfs on RTL for ele because eles were not supposed to match their class…-_-

In s1 nobody played thieves and yet people played bunkers. Conquest is why people play bunkery builds, not thieves. Stop spreading clueless bs, ty.

Zelulose.8695:

They need to increase thief damage and add a Duration after dodge where they don’t evade this way they cannot dodge twice in a row. Dodging in a row should be similar to spamming sword/d and sword/p skill 3 you can hit them during a specific interval. I played a no skill dodge spamming thief just to frustrate people in diamond. I’ve 1 vs 3 with it. I say remove dodge spamming by shortening the evade duration. Let thief keep their dodges and increase their damage.

Thief doesn’t need dmg increase – they can deal plenty to squishies. Problem is all that dmg is useless due to abundance of dmg redux, high uptime on heals, blocks, invuls, passives etc. Either Anet needs to nerf defensives or give thief tools to overcome block/invuls etc. Worst part – Anet actually continues to nerf tools that allowed thief to land dmg.

Supreme.3164:

Cynz.9437:

OP, i have a question. What are you trying to accomplish with it?

Community hates the class regardless how weak or strong it is due to class mechanic (trying to fight slippery target that can run away any time is annoying and dissatisfying, at least for a lot of players; thieves are also big liability so people prefer not to have them on team – hence the constant harassment).
Devs couldn’t care less whether the class is doing fine or not as long as they can slap another nerf on the thief class to please wvw crowd for another month or so.

I think making posts like this is pointless – you might have better chance to make a wall talk than change community/balancing team view.

You’re right..but again every class is hated for something and the community will always oppose buffs to classes in a way or in another, if eles ask for buffs..some thief will say they don’t deserve buffs, in the end it goes both ways.

Still I ask myself why people ask for buffs while comparing their profession to others, when your profession does much better than its intended design..only harsh nerfs will come your way

Thief was designed to be this squishy slippery assassin, anything more and you’re OP and get nerfed…just like ele was designed to be a “could fit everywhere but won’t do a perfect job” sort of thing

Except thief is not assassin lol. Assassins do high single target dmg – thief in gw2 does 3k backstabs lel.

alchemyst.2165:

Kolly.9872:

alchemyst.2165:

Kolly.9872:

alchemyst.2165:

As a thief main since beta I have to disagree with you.

Thief is harder than some of the other builds like druid or warrior, but that’s kinda the point. You offer different rewards to your for playing better (high risk, high reward). Thief is perfectly effective when the job is done correctly.

That is exactly the point OP is talking about. Other classes are too easy to play and to have success with, compared to thief and this is not balanced at all. Even if tasks are different, this is not an excuse for makinga class accomplish its task in an easier way than thieves.

Classes being harder to play than other isn’t a design problem as long as it reaps unique/better rewards, which, in my experience, is true for the thief. Bad thieves will carry the team you’re playing against, good thieves will carry the team you’re playing for.

If for bad do you mean mechanically unskilled, I can reply that unskilled players playing guardians are being carried by class mechanics. That is not the same for thieves. The balance problem lies here

Did you read what I said?

Harder to play = bigger rewards. This is true for the thief. A carry build, however, can only carry so far. There comes a point in this game where skill/smarts will simply outmatch a carry build.

Except really good thief doesn’t bring as much reward as say half-decent scrapper. That is the issue. Also, due to being pushed into +1/decap and nothing else role thief relies heavily on team to not die instantly 24/7 and actually hold points. No other class is so dependent on having non-potato team. Also no other class gets constantly harassed by community for … well existing.

Prince Vingador.8067:

Thief is fine , if u are one of the five players that can play it, yes thats right imo only 5 players in this game can play thief, i mean really play.
If u not then ofc its going to be hard for u, u just gonna die 10 times per game and ask for nerfs, i believe that to play thief u need to have a very good awereness and rotations skills and keep tags on all players and positions at all times.
Ofc most thievs cant do this and insta die to aoe or spend whole time 1v1 far in their point just to die.
Thief has all the tools to desingage , so u really shouldnt be dying that much but thats not what happen atm in solo q.
A few classes have so many passive blocks or invuls that makes them look better than thief , but the reason is because its hard to play thief, but make no mistakes in the right hands thievs are as usefull or better than any other class.
I see thievs and necros in the same place, they need normal team mates to play , so thief can rotate , if your team perma dies then ofc thief cant rotate well .
Imo these players that play thief and say they are or feel weak , are just not good enough with the class, imo its a class that really needs good awereness.

Yeahhh that is why every single thief main switched to rev (which fills same role as thief) in pro league.

Also, i love how the guy that afk’s in matches every time he got killed couple times calls other players bad xD

Swap with thief – get thief and necro killed, lose point. Yeahhhh, sounds great. Not really.

Kuya.6495:

I think what thf needs is more viable builds that allow it go beyond just a decap/+1 role. But for that you need to find a way to provide tools for that without buffing the decapper thf.

They wouldn’t do it. Decapping/+1 is what Anet wanted from thieves, they don’t see anything beyond that for the class. Thief used to be a threat in 1v1 fights in first years but Anet made sure that it is not the case anymore. Now you supposed to be 10 times better than your opponent and his passives, if you want to win a fight on thief.

I also don’t think we will ever see anything creative (different role, builds, better viability) for thieves given how Anet effectively deleted the class for first 2 seasons to make room for revs and encourage HoT sales.

DeceiverX.8361:

Cynz.9437:

DeceiverX.8361:

Yay only for D/P users who never slotted the venom build. The changes hurt D/D power in PvP roughly the same as it did the VShare build itself in PvE.

Actually i play d/p in pvp and i don’t like the change. I do miss double stack of basi. Yes, you can give basi to team at begin but during the match you rarely get chance to share venoms with teammates.

Also “best” thieves left because of dp? Which would that be? If anything, june patch from last year and introduction of revs contributed to decrease of thieves and build variety/viability, not d/p. Why didn’t i see you spewing txoic bs when s/d was braindead?

Stop hating on d/p and go use that energy for something productive (e.g. getting HoT specs nerfed), ty.

So much backtalk from what was an off-hand remark about how the reasoning behind the decision had no desirable effect. You’re all taking me way too critically, here.

Anecdotal. Most non-D/P players didn’t make it to be recognizable as pro players because the builds weren’t good enough for the meta (boon bunker). Ask pros about good thieves they’ve dueled, and they should be willing to admit they’ve gotten massively out-played in fights by other non-meta players. If they don’t, they’re either a tiny minority at the pinnacle of skill and always were, or they’re lying.

S/D wasn’t brain-dead easy (okay, it was at launch when it was not a two-part skill, but D/D was by far the most overpowered thing in the game at launch) so much as it directly countered the boon meta in sPvP at the time when it was dominat after getting reworked, and thus made it an excellent +1. Boons were also way less common and spammable, so a thief that simply just jumped in and pre-casted FS for LS + BT would pretty much guarantee a dead enemy. Playing it well in strict combat outside of +1 wasn’t braindead, and Daredevil is way, way worse of a culprit than core Acro even before the nerfs. Even now, I think Acro is stronger and more braindead than it used to be due to massively-buffed passives.

I’ve tried to put forth effort to talk about the state of the game. I was suspended from 0 IP to 6 IP from saying class balance failed in the dedicated feedback thread while explaining the reasoning in a wall of text. There’s no hope in ANet listening or taking such efforts into consideration.

I still see no names. You just keep claiming things w/o back up.

SD was brain dead back then, especially given the state the game was.

Yes, HoT specs made everything easy, i totally agree with it (if it was up to me, i would deleted HoT from pvp all together).

Once again, sole reason why d/p (despite it actually not being the best 1v1 set) is so popular in pvp is because of it’s versatility.

What bothers me really is how thieves are hating on thieves when the class is already in crappy state. Thief atm is about weakest class in pvp and yet we are here screaming “oh noes d/p is OP”, oh noes nerf d/p – which is barely keeping us in pvp. Sry, i don’t have Jana’s syndrome “If i can’t enjoy my build then whole class should be deleted and nobody else shall have fun” so it really bothers me when someone keeps bringing up d/p as some kind of source of evil.

There is plenty of noobs QQing about thieves on other threads – you don’t have to contribute to it, ty.

OP, i have a question. What are you trying to accomplish with it?

Community hates the class regardless how weak or strong it is due to class mechanic (trying to fight slippery target that can run away any time is annoying and dissatisfying, at least for a lot of players; thieves are also big liability so people prefer not to have them on team – hence the constant harassment).
Devs couldn’t care less whether the class is doing fine or not as long as they can slap another nerf on the thief class to please wvw crowd for another month or so.

I think making posts like this is pointless – you might have better chance to make a wall talk than change community/balancing team view.

Krait rune 6th bonus ignores dodges.

Reading this thread one might think thieves are OP, meanwhile in matches: “thief reroll, you gonna lose us game”.

<popcorn>

DeceiverX.8361:

Yay only for D/P users who never slotted the venom build. The changes hurt D/D power in PvP roughly the same as it did the VShare build itself in PvE.

Actually i play d/p in pvp and i don’t like the change. I do miss double stack of basi. Yes, you can give basi to team at begin but during the match you rarely get chance to share venoms with teammates.

Also “best” thieves left because of dp? Which would that be? If anything, june patch from last year and introduction of revs contributed to decrease of thieves and build variety/viability, not d/p. Why didn’t i see you spewing txoic bs when s/d was braindead?

Stop hating on d/p and go use that energy for something productive (e.g. getting HoT specs nerfed), ty.

xeonage.1253:

High Level
Me = Burden

fix’d

Zero.6592:

Dude you are just waaaay too serious. I actually love it when people are going nuts because I play thief. Yesterday I had a guy going particularly insane that I didn’t change my profession when we were facing 3 Dragonhunters. I just laughed at him, and said “wanna 1v1 me after? you DH, me thief”. Especially after that I could just feel his hatred through the screen haha :p. After raging on me he was like “okay I surrender the match, this is pointless waste of time we will lose for sure”.

We completely dominated the other team. It’s all some random guy’s mental projections after all. It isn’t something that warrants blocking half the community. People are just crazy. See the humor in that :p

It stops being funny when people start to afk and intentionally lose matches just because you didn’t reroll.

Legiion.7385:

Cynz.9437:

Legiion.7385:

sophiewhite.3149:

Legiion.7385:

And another one how cant dodge
Srsly have u ever playing in high Tiers ?
Oh i forget u take and break and first thing u do is asking for a nerf.
BtW DH DONT get any buffs from the last Patch

yeah cause you can totally have a dh without it being a gaurdian right? also to all the jerks just being rude to the op obviously hes new. maybe give him some tips instead of just insulting and laughing.UBIK you did awesome.

How can a player that came back after a break and say that the cpmmunity want a DH nerf ?^^
And most people are screaming about the DH mechanics that’s the reason why i said DH wasnt buffed.
And he didnt played in high Tier…but asking for a nerf

I play in high tiers and guard builds (DH IS part of the problem) are too rewarding for too little effort, period. Also, “high tiers” are flooded with (a lot of bad) guards, so no it is not just low divisions issue.

I didnt mean you…..the OP didnt played in high tiers but he screams for a nerf.

I am referring to HoT as a whole. There are traps to avoid, unblockable traps. The arrows, the shield of judgement. Some other things. And dodging their ability is not the problem. But thx for your input. And no I never played high tier pvp.

This is the reason why a mmo never will have a good balancing.
But hey the OP know what the community want.

And i played in high tiers and i “scream” for nerfs. What is your point?

Conaywea.5062:

if you get soo many salty players you are the problem

Not if you play thief class – majority would prefer not to have one on their team it seems. I probably have half of the pvp community from EU on my block list by now. Worst part, even if you block players it doesn’t stop them from afking.

Season 1 (almost every match):
Team (before match even started): thief reroll. Thief, uninstall, kill yourself, <insert a lot of swearing words here, sometimes including various actions related to my mother>. Thief if you don’t reroll i am afk.
Me: report
Customer support? apparently doesn’t exist. I keep seeing same offenders every match every day.

Season 2: see season 1.

Season 3 (every 3rd-5th match):
Team (before match): thief reroll.
Me: No.
Team: ok, gg, afk.
Customer support? see above.

Season 4:
Team (when we lose): thief, you garbage, you lost us game, useless <insert a lot of swearing words here>, uninstall, kill yourself.
Customer support? see above.

Team(when we win): hey thief GJ! Wanna team up? Let’s duo! You are good!
Enemy team: well done thief. Nice carry thief, wish you were on my team, wanna team up?
Me <looking at list of stalkers and feeling more and more salty as it keeps increasing>.

When i did play my necro or rev on occasion, nobody ever said anything bad to me, even though my performance in some matches was abysmally bad on those classes.

P.S. inb4 i can’t claim (according to my forum messagebox)) that i got harassed for playing the class. I got screenshots. Should i lie that issue is not there? But but but but it is against the rules to spread false information~

Legiion.7385:

sophiewhite.3149:

Legiion.7385:

And another one how cant dodge
Srsly have u ever playing in high Tiers ?
Oh i forget u take and break and first thing u do is asking for a nerf.
BtW DH DONT get any buffs from the last Patch

yeah cause you can totally have a dh without it being a gaurdian right? also to all the jerks just being rude to the op obviously hes new. maybe give him some tips instead of just insulting and laughing.UBIK you did awesome.

How can a player that came back after a break and say that the cpmmunity want a DH nerf ?^^
And most people are screaming about the DH mechanics that’s the reason why i said DH wasnt buffed.
And he didnt played in high Tier…but asking for a nerf

I play in high tiers and guard builds (DH IS part of the problem) are too rewarding for too little effort, period. Also, “high tiers” are flooded with (a lot of bad) guards, so no it is not just low divisions issue.

Ragnarox.9601:

Why are so many guards playing pvp, cause in this season guardian is finally viable so every guardian main is trying it. After 4 years we actually have a decent build for pvp. End of story.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA you must be new to this game. 4 years… ahhaahhahahahahahahahaahahahhahahaahhaaaa.

Shall i remind you on medi guards, on bunker guards (with various weapon sets), burn guards, trapper guards in s1-s2? Guards were always in decent/good spot. They were used in ESL/WTS tourneys in the past years. They weren’t even THAT bad in s3 (other classes/builds were just bit better), at least nowhere as bad as thieves/wars in s1 for example. I haven’t seen a single DH being trashtalked by team in s3, i myself however got told to go kill myself (and worse things) just for playing thief before match even started for 4 seasons now (season 1 was the worst).

So many people play guards atm because it is braindead(the only difference to turret engi is that you actually need to press buttons more frequently), it is low risk/high reward. Lot of people got carried to higher divisions by the build alone (you can tell someone is total garbage by their rotations/map/fight awareness). People i did duoq with would switch to guards when matches got rough because it is easiest thing to be effective and win match with. Not to mention most classes got nerfed last patch (even thieves, honestly WTH ANET) while guards got buffed across the board when they weren’t that bad on first place.

This game’s pvp is all about holding points – aoe spam (instant!!!), high uptime on heals, blocks/stab/cc is all you need.

Yeah, traps may be (arguably) by itself not so broken, yes virtrues by itself may be not so broken, blocks etc. but combination together is just too much allows people to drool their way through divisions w/o actually learning how to properly play. The fact that i solo’ed some DHs in late diamond/legend on a thief says it all (those players belong to sapphire tops).

“Guardian main” hahahahahahahahaha, more like bandwagon potatoes.

And i am saying that the end result changed because of the superspeed (which also allows mesmer to land shatters even through dodges, because due to superspeed clones don’t shatter in dodge position of the target but consider it as movement and continue to run) so bringing up core is pointless. The only way you can avoid it is to stealth up and teleport somewhere (e.g. rooftop in khylo) right away.

apharma.3741:

Cynz.9437:

apharma.3741:

Cynz.9437:

apharma.3741:

You know, funny thing, if you shatter as a mesmer triggering your clones to facebomb the enemy, when the enemy stealths they sit there like pudding no longer tracking the target. If the target stays in stealth they will eventually just detonate where they were when target was lost.

So should they keep tracking as the attack was sent before the stealth or not because they are a pet that constantly updates it’s targeting even though it’s become an attack?

Actually clones do bomb on top of the target even if target goes in stealth. Also, any AI spawned by mes in downed state ignores stealth completely – they keep attacking you even if you are in stealth for 10+ sec straight.

No they don’t, go try it, the clones will just stand there like pudding till the target comes out of stealth unless the target is near enough to trigger the explosion.

Yeah I know about the last bit though.

Edit: It’s much more noticeable if you run core mesmer and shatter from a distance. The most common place you notice this is in WvW where there’s nothing artificially forcing players together or punishing running out of range.

When was last time you saw core mes? Also why bring up wvw?

Your average mes in pvp runs chrono, those clones run like mad and yes they explode on top of you even if you keep moving in the stealth. It happens all the time, i don’t need to try it out, i see it in every match.

I said core mesmer because they don’t have superspeed on shatter so you actually see them standing around doing nothing when the target stealths. 9/10 with superspeed on shatter they are already in exploding range when the target goes into stealth unless you for some silly reason shatter when they are in stealth.

Classic, I don’t need to test it because I think I’m right response.

Issue is with superspeed. Why bring up core mes, i still don’t get it.

And no, they actually run after you (and follow you to extend) even if you are in stealth in the distance as long as (omg forum filter wth) shatter was activated moment before you went in stealth.

Also, i didn’t say i don’t need to test because i am right, i said i don’t need to test it because i see it every match. There is big difference. Classic, put words in mouth of someone due to lack of argument.

SH – where you farm legend by ….farming NPCs.

Razor.9872:

Cynz.9437:

Razor.9872:

Cynz.9437:

Tim.6450:

People actually think that elite specs are so OP and need to be nerfed to the level of core specs which I consider an indesirable goal.

Actually we have every right to demand it since Anet did promise us (and lied just like about MMR reset) that elite specs will bring variety but won’t be stronger than core. The sole reason why elites are so overtuned is sales, nothing else.

Source?

Check gw2 streams from last year.

So, you’re not going to give me a source?

You want me to go through all the streams from last year to find the one for you? I got better things to do.

Razor.9872:

Cynz.9437:

Tim.6450:

People actually think that elite specs are so OP and need to be nerfed to the level of core specs which I consider an indesirable goal.

Actually we have every right to demand it since Anet did promise us (and lied just like about MMR reset) that elite specs will bring variety but won’t be stronger than core. The sole reason why elites are so overtuned is sales, nothing else.

Source?

Check gw2 streams from last year.

TheNickPrice.8457:

@
Cynz.9437

I still get teammates that run out of refuge (e.g. when we try to invade far at begin of the match) or spam AA while in downed state while i apply stealth on them and attempt to rez them. Welcome to legend, guize~

you should also run out of your refuge, continue to do so until you notice it’s a ridiculous skill to bring, and there’s much better skills to slot.

aka.. refuge is kitten

refuge is fine if you use it properly, it just has different uses than blinding powder

yes, metabattle builds are a good guide for beginner but at the end you should adjust build that fits your playstyle and not adjust to what other people tell you – i personally prefer refuge and i think i am doing fine with it :P

Sifu.9745:

Whaaat? Thief is one of the best profs for 1vs1. You can kill your opponents really fast with right build. I’m not talking about high rated, but in solo queue Thief is very strong. Survivability is great: you have many escape options not just stealth. If you die a lot, take Shadow Arts + Deception skills: will help you survive and use SB more often. You are not a Warrior, you have to move and dodge a lot.
Warrior and Necro both have about 70% more base health then Thief but they have weaker survivability than Thief and i’m not kidding. Blind, dodge and Stealth are your best friends.
You can also try p/p + sb, if you have trouble fighting in melee range. P/P burst dmg is very high and a lot of fun. You can kill DHs with double pistols.
And as mentioned above avoid fighting as melee when you see too many red circles on the floor

just LoL i wonder what kind of opponents you are facing

apharma.3741:

Cynz.9437:

apharma.3741:

You know, funny thing, if you shatter as a mesmer triggering your clones to facebomb the enemy, when the enemy stealths they sit there like pudding no longer tracking the target. If the target stays in stealth they will eventually just detonate where they were when target was lost.

So should they keep tracking as the attack was sent before the stealth or not because they are a pet that constantly updates it’s targeting even though it’s become an attack?

Actually clones do bomb on top of the target even if target goes in stealth. Also, any AI spawned by mes in downed state ignores stealth completely – they keep attacking you even if you are in stealth for 10+ sec straight.

No they don’t, go try it, the clones will just stand there like pudding till the target comes out of stealth unless the target is near enough to trigger the explosion.

Yeah I know about the last bit though.

Edit: It’s much more noticeable if you run core mesmer and shatter from a distance. The most common place you notice this is in WvW where there’s nothing artificially forcing players together or punishing running out of range.

When was last time you saw core mes? Also why bring up wvw?

Your average mes in pvp runs chrono, those clones run like mad and yes they explode on top of you even if you keep moving in the stealth. It happens all the time, i don’t need to try it out, i see it in every match.

Spartacus.3192:

Mr Vivi Ornitier.4271:

why does everyone keep saying it was 5/6 in the morning ive been playing this game since beta and yes i know the ques will be long but i have never seen it this bad. the fact their was close to 50 other people in the same lobby as me w8ing for ques is silly. and from just where i was stood i counted 4 legendary 7 rubys and 8 diamond but nope no mixed ques you just have 2 w8 till more diamond players come online

Its worse this season compared to what you remember because it is now halfway through season 4. A lot of players already have their wings. The PVE players who already have their wings have stopped queueing. The Legend players are probably bored and have stopped or moved to other games. So what you have left is the ones who really like pvp. In summary you have less people queueing now thakittenmilar stages in previous seasons.

Actually i used to pvp 24/7 prior to june patch (even when there was no rewards but glory) – i could deal with dumb matchmaking, i could deal with lack of rewards but abysmally bad class balance introduced with june patch last year completely killed it for me. I just reach legend and then afk from pvp for the rest of the season. The meta became so unenjoyable that i would rather mindlessly farm fractals than touch pvp again. And i actually got this game for pvp :|

It just goes down same road as WoW was for me: i used pvp there a lot, but consistently bad class balance (pvp was balanced around raids) which resulted in literal one shots, pet army doing all the job for the caster, gear grinding etc. pretty much forced me to stop playing the game completely. I never touched WoW again in all these years.

edit: ItsAOcean beat me lol

Since you are new(once you are better, those rules obviously don’t apply as much):
- do not engage even fights (1v1, 2v2 etc.) – you will lose, period. Anet designed the class around dying in 1v1 encounters – you supposed to +1 only (if anyone on any class besides necro/ele dies to equially skilled thief – they should uninstall)
- do not engage big fights – you will die to aoe/passives w/o anyone actually targeting you
- go for decaps (empty points)
- go for outnumbered fights (2v1, 3v2 etc.)
- try to steal beast while enemy is killing it
- train enemy thief if they are not better than you are (if they are better – avoid them)
- i personally run generosity sigils, withdraw, shadowstep, agi signet, improvisation for condis (mainly because i do end up in 1v1 and 1v2 a lot, but it is different subject)
- Sindrener (pro league player) has good guides and commented stream – might wanna watch his stuff if you want to learn more about thief ( https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/PvP-Thief/first#post6321953 )

If you want more than running away from anyone, either duel other classes a lot(there are dueling servers in HJ list), play other classes so you learn their mechanics or…. reroll. Thief atm requires too much effort and experience to be even tiny bit effective in matches. It is worst class to jump into pvp with in current meta.

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

Cynz.9437:

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

I’m pretty sure its not just me but after you played a while you’ll know if passive is on or off CD. Ofc not to the precise seconds but often sufficient for you to decide whether to use your skill or not.

Assuming you are dueling. In 5v5 matches, where you usually join mid of fights, you never know what CD is up until it is actually used or you are on ts and your team actually calls them.

Meanwhile Anet nerfs all stealth attacks on thief assuming thief player should be somehow magically able to track all hidden CDs from all 5 enemies across the map /faceplam

Interesting that you brought “passive CD on enemy” up, since me and OP are clearly talking about player’s own passive CD. Even if there is a passive CD indicator, I’m not sure its a good idea that the opposing players should see it.

EDIT: ah I see where you get confused on, I was talking about deciding to use damage mitigation skill or wait for passive ICD, alternatively using skills that has passive CD attached to it (eg. incendiary powder etc)

I actually think we should be able to see enemies hidden CDs considering Anet balancing team expects us to know when those CDs are up with their balancing choices.

As far as own CDs go, shouldn’t you have general idea when your own CDs are up?

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

I’m pretty sure its not just me but after you played a while you’ll know if passive is on or off CD. Ofc not to the precise seconds but often sufficient for you to decide whether to use your skill or not.

Assuming you are dueling. In 5v5 matches, where you usually join mid of fights, you never know what CD is up until it is actually used or you are on ts and your team actually calls them.

Meanwhile Anet nerfs all stealth attacks on thief assuming thief player should be somehow magically able to track all hidden CDs from all 5 enemies across the map /faceplam

apharma.3741:

You know, funny thing, if you shatter as a mesmer triggering your clones to facebomb the enemy, when the enemy stealths they sit there like pudding no longer tracking the target. If the target stays in stealth they will eventually just detonate where they were when target was lost.

So should they keep tracking as the attack was sent before the stealth or not because they are a pet that constantly updates it’s targeting even though it’s become an attack?

Actually clones do bomb on top of the target even if target goes in stealth. Also, any AI spawned by mes in downed state ignores stealth completely – they keep attacking you even if you are in stealth for 10+ sec straight.

Tim.6450:

Cynz.9437:

Tim.6450:

People actually think that elite specs are so OP and need to be nerfed to the level of core specs which I consider an indesirable goal.

Actually we have every right to demand it since Anet did promise us (and lied just like about MMR reset) that elite specs will bring variety but won’t be stronger than core. The sole reason why elites are so overtuned is sales, nothing else.

If they were overtuned then why are most builds half core? Why don’t mesmers run 5 wells or engies 5 gyros? Why don’t I see quintuple rage skill torch warrior? Do you think reapers would be relevant without boon corruption which reaper does not offer? The fact stands that elite specs are stronger then their core counterparts because they can take any skill and trait core offers plus a set uniquely of their own. This one way exclusivety is an inherent advantage that can’t be underestimated. Basically more options-> more choices -> better choices -> power creep. Nerfing this inherent advantage would mean that elite spec skills and traits would actually be undertuned. So I don’t think they did it for the ‘sales’.

Because specs were also designed for pve.

Also, have you played in s1? Mes actually did run multiple wells back then. Wars and thieves were made to trash tiers to make room for new class – revs. Engis do run multiple gyros. Reaper’s chill anyone?

Yes, they toned downed some things in time… but how long did it take them? Most players who would buy the game because of powercreep did buy it already. Mission accomplished.

Nimrud.5642:

Cynz.9437:

Actually we have every right to demand it since Anet did promise us (and lied just like about MMR reset) that elite specs will bring variety but won’t be stronger than core. The sole reason why elites are so overtuned is sales, nothing else.

They chose the easier way: they didnt make the game good, they just made it look good to those who dont really understand it. The armies of champtrain and worldboss farmers see that there are tournaments but cant make more out of it than my grandma. They know names some famous player or teamnames, whos builds they may copy and thats it. A few days ago I played against a thief with my rev. Killed him 3 times without him dodging, stealthing or anything. But he had 3 legendaries + back. He had a companion, and ghostly infusions and permanent gathering tools and griffon mail carrier, and…

Are you starting to see a pattern here? You can build up a gaming community by making a good game that will engage a lot of good and even better players. Who, after a while attract more and more people to play the game, making the competition tougher. And the two processes strengthen eachother. OR – what Anet seems to have chosen – make a crappy game. 95% of the players wont even notice if its actually crappy or not. And get a bunch of socially awkward wannabe-s with inferiority complex, give them a few bucks for playing and sell the whole thing to the community as e-sports…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lqdErI9uss

Yeah game had amazing potential for pvp, neglected for too long and with HoT it became too casuals friendly and grindy :/

I have multiple legendaries, perma gathering tools and mail carriers and i got legend in all 4 seasons – what are you implying =.=

Actually i am pretty sure Sindrender pve’s way more than some pve’ers considering i saw him doing fractals (on warrior, dat traitor!!!) and he said he raids as well. Legendaries/gem store items don’t mean player is bad in pvp lol

Rising Dusk.2408:

I’m going to take this lovely image as an opportunity to chat about the most common pub compositions for Fractals.

I don’t think this really says anything about Necromancers or Druids per se, but rather says a lot about the way every fractal is constructed, including the bosses even. Honestly, I think the Druid is completely unnecessary in the comp because it’s basically impossible to die as a remotely competent Necromancer in T4 Fractals.

• There are always a number of targets present, so Epidemic is always relevant.
• There are no DPS checks or enrage mechanics, so taking a bit longer but being much safer is very valuable for runs with players you don’t know anything about.
• Most enemies aren’t remotely threatening to competent players, but are noob-killers that prey on players who don’t know how to handle their classes or the fractal’s mechanics.
• Toughness scaling at high levels strongly encourages condition damage builds and not power builds.
• Many encounters outright encourage range with more melee-punishing mechanics than range-punishing mechanics (ie. Imbued Shaman / Archdiviner / Molten Duo / Mai Trin)

Even if they nerfed Necromancers to oblivion, it would just become 4 condi Engineers and a Druid, or whatever. The lack of build diversity is entirely due to the fractals’ mechanics and the overarching toughness mechanics.

I play zerker thief in t4s daily and doing more than fine, never understood whole necro stacking thing – we kill bosses there just as fast with random groups consisting of anything really. Yes, having necro for boon thief is nice, but 1 is more than sufficient, imo.

I also melee most bosses so idk what you are talking about. Especially bosses you named – they are easiest to melee in fact (mai is cone – stabby stabby her in the back, shaman has obvious animations to dodge – drop dat smoke screen in his face, arch – just poke him in the back 24/7). Only bosses i range is like molten duo when my entire team is dead and i have to solo the boss or chaos fractal because boss needs to be kited 24/7.

Post video of your gameplay… i am sure there is something you could have done better as well. I have had some games which were effectively 2v5 because team was basically afk, still won them thanks to proper rotations/animal steals etc. Surely, you can’t win every game but as 1 player you can still contribute a lot to the game and make the difference that wins game. Always assume your teammates are potatoes and play around their and enemy’s mistakes.

Worst lost streak i had this season was 8 games and only because i won too many times before that so MM algo went on rampage.

Cosbuster.4379:

Zintrothen.1056:

Are you bad? If so, you should be losing most games. If you’re playing better than everyone though, then there’s a problem.

That doesn’t make any sense. If he’s bad, he/she should be matched with other bad players, isn’t that the whole point of match making?

Or his MMR got inflated thanks to last season/he is new pvp and has average MMR as starter so he is facing enemies that are better than him.

Tim.6450:

People actually think that elite specs are so OP and need to be nerfed to the level of core specs which I consider an indesirable goal.

Actually we have every right to demand it since Anet did promise us (and lied just like about MMR reset) that elite specs will bring variety but won’t be stronger than core. The sole reason why elites are so overtuned is sales, nothing else.

Actually those 2 fractals are easiest ones besides ocean. I like when they appear, means i have close to no trash to kill and can finish dailies quickly.

My least favorite is anything with crap load of mobs (hello urban, aether, dredge) – spam dat pw for crappy loot zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

CptAurellian.9537:

Well, is there anything in high-level fractals that’s not super easy with such a combo?

I play thief and run t4s with any group really, you don’t have to have that “perfect comp” to do 100 mai in few min.

otome.2673:

CptAurellian.9537:

KickzNGigglez.4958:

I will however admit this was one of those 170 mastery groups, so they definitely had their dodge button binded somewhere.

I can’t see any correlation between mastery points and Bloomy performance. Had more than enough 170s who apparently didn’t even know that a dodge ability exists.

Its the new AP filter xD

I flash pve’ers with mah epic legend icon while i am rezzing them xD If you can pvp, fractals should be a joke :P

On more serious note: never understood why are people so obsessed with APs/mastery and crap like that – it just means someone afk farmed APs – any keyboard turning/clicking potato can do it.