Guild Wars 2

I think the idea of rewarding players with top stats isn’t bad. But not all tops stats. I would reward players for rezzes, caps/decap, kills on defense and remove things like treb shots or lord/beast kills. Surely, those help to win the game sometimes but it would lead to people farming animal or rushing lord just for reward and ignore the capture points.

I wouldn’t punish players for double capping – sometimes 2 people have to stay on point because enemy is incomming. Not to mention it would lead to griefing in form of: OMG GET OFF THE POINT IT IS MINE TO CAP.

Also, as someone posted before:
- players with higher MMR should be rewarded more than players with lower MMR in the same matches; they are basically carrying the game yet the pip spread is the same for everyone
- beating better team should be rewarding; atm it doesn’t matter whether i farm potato team or beat pro league team – it is still just 1 pip, the effort involved is huge however
- i liked the closed score concept in season 1 – people were motivated to continue to play instead of afking, because if you score was close they might not even lose a pip

Kageseigi.2150:

Interesting… I wouldn’t mind Shadowstep (or shadowstepping) to clear certain “controls.”

The other day, I engaged a Dragonhunter on point. I was losing, so I turned tail and run. It was a really quick engagement. Got hit, dodged through traps, then used the full range of Shadowstep to create distance so I could escape. About a quarter of a second later, I’m pulled 1,200+ (probably closer to 1,500) units backs right to another trap on point.

So yeah, I wouldn’t mind if Shadowstep broke “tethers” or other such things. I’m assuming I got speared after I turned my camera from the opponent so I could run, but before the actual Shadowstep. Oh well… it was an exciting flight back to the point… a long one also :-P

I present you combination of shadowstep and guard pull! Only fix is to relog :|

Thief! Spent 90+ % of the time on my thief. Went with her through everything: pve, wvw, pvp xD

Always played stealth classes in every game and i love thief concept – fast paced, sneaky, very active gameplay The trill of assassinating someone and getting away with 1% HP is too much fun

MMR settling you say? 50% win chance you say?

p/p is viable till diamond
it is also must have set for some high lv fractals since you are forced to kite boss and can’t nuke them in seconds

Josh Davis.6015:

Cynz.9437:

Oh Grouch, can you guys help us with those with coming changes while you are at it? They just pile up and pile up and pile up

glory shards go for nothing

can’t sell tomes and with key changes tomes pile up faster than i can use them

Oh Grouch, can you guys help us with those with coming changes while you are at it? They just pile up and pile up and pile up

Play Hammer with burn build
???
Profit

No, i don’t think hammer needs buffs.

EU or NA?

Also, don’t wanna sabotage your thread, but if someone wanna sit in 30+ min queues with me in legend and keep me company, whisper whisper wink wink :P (EU)

P.S. potatoes don’t need to apply – i have 0 tolerance/patience <_<

We need Helseth’s response to Countless’ response to Helseth’s video <popcorn>

definitely agree on more info from Anet however i have suspicion that devs themself often don’t know what will happen next as far as pvp goes

i think old style of tourneys had it’s appeal – people could make teams and there wasn’t such big entrance wall as it is now

i understand there is certain prestige point in pro league but i feel it also shies away a lot of players as well

we don’t really have a platform anymore where new/average teams can try out/get experience (ranked is a joke for it)

witcher.3197:

Josh Davis.6015:

Hi there,

A player may have a high-enough MMR to put them in the top 100, but if they’re in Sapphire they’re only going to get matched with players that are in or around Sapphire. Season 5 will use the entire pool of players for creating matches – this should help the system create more balanced matches and improve queue times.

But.. doesn’t this change amplify the biggest problem with s1 matchmaking which pits high MMR vs high MMR and low vs low in every division, making people with good ratings to struggle even in amber? This would just promote MMR tanking even more, right?

They should just reset MMR, keep the division placement (legend → sapphire), award more pips for beating better players, remove safe nets.

Ithilwen.1529:

@Cynz.9437

Cynz, two seasons of stacked matches have resulted in badly distorted MMR. This would be particularly true in the upper divisions. People win streaked and teamed well above there true ability. Now, they are expected to perform much better than they really are.

That’s the explanation for your blowout matches.

The problem existed before leagues were introduced….

Josh Davis.6015:

Hi there,

First, here’s the a recent post on the topic:

Gaile Gray.6029:

With the start of Season 4, we’ll be returning to Season 1’s style of matchmaking which focuses on creating the most balanced teams from the players queueing within your pip range. This change may widen the skill range of players in each division, but we feel that increased match quality is worth the trade-off of reduced prestige for this season. During Season 2 and 3 we added two league features that greatly impacted your ability to climb: start-of-season division placement based on previous season performance and win/lose streak pips, and both of these features will remain enabled for Season 4.

Season 4 matchmaking is already using MMR to create the most balanced teams possible. Teams are no longer “stacked” as they were in Season 2 and 3.

The problem (that we’re solving for S5) is that we’re currently searching for players close to your division to match you against. This means that the pool of players that we can pull from to create a match is much smaller than if we were using the entire pool of players. A player may have a high-enough MMR to put them in the top 100, but if they’re in Sapphire they’re only going to get matched with players that are in or around Sapphire. Season 5 will use the entire pool of players for creating matches – this should help the system create more balanced matches and improve queue times.

As for the “forced 50/50”, there’s nothing on the backend that forces a certain win-rate. This is a byproduct of your MMR settling.

This is soooo not true. My observation from 6+k matches say otherwise. If what you say was true, then i wouldn’t get constant blowout (500-100, 100-500, 500-100, 100-500) matches pre HoT and s1, s4. If those teams have equal win chances, then i am Japanese empress.

Also, please explain me how it is possible that we absolutely destroy 4 man premade and next match you are on the team of that 4 man premade.

Be happy you didn’t sit in same tier for 3 days straight because only 10-12 people queue in diamond/legend range and matchmaking just tosses potatoes between teams so you have 0 progression due to +-1 pip and forced 50% winrate.

OOhhhhh sounds like great place but but but… i am too scared to post there ._.

In many cases score doesn’t mean crap. It can be easily achieved by spamming treb shots or farming animal while you don’t actually have any points.

On other hand i present you most stressful match i had this season so far with 4 teammates afking at mid all match (regardless whether there was enemy or not – enemy was smart enough to play sides) and only leaving it when they got killed (just to go back to mid again lol).

And no, i won’t stop posting this because it is direct proof of how imbalanced matchmaking is. If a player that is able to look at map and rotate accordingly is in same MMR range as 4 bots afking all match on same point, then i am Japanese empress.

Menmaro.4607:

AllNightPlayer.1286:

Wow, I wouldn’t have guessed, that a simple statement you cannot argue with, would push this much uproar. Who’s accusing whom for being “emotionally charged”?

You have to admit, that Thiefs can get the most out of stealth. And their stealth attack is always stronger than any other attack from the same weapon set. And you don’t even lose your stealth, if your attacks get blocked, evaded or even missed. The 1 sec cd for a strong attack on a profession, which uses no cooldowns on weapon attacks at all, looks like a good deal to me.

You forgot to add that thieves can’t 1v1 any class unless the people playing are braindead. They have very little condi clear, no blocks (except for bandits defense which can only be used once a minute), kitten damage on sb, 0 teamfight potential, drop like a feather when cc’ed. Need I go on?

Yeah the thief’s stealth attack could be “OP” on any other class but thief. Stealth attacks are what made thieves unique and sure you wouldn’t get punished as much if you missed it before but let’s remember this. To set up a stealth attack on d/d you need to first land CnD which is 5 or 6 init I believe, then you need to position yourself behind a moving hero and hope to the lord that they dont have the brain cells to dodge as soon as they see u stealth, and only then you hit about 9k damage tops? I agree that d/p needed a nerf but this one completely kittened over any X/D build in existence.

d/p makes thief barely viable in pvp and you want nerfs? Post more nonsense please.

Oh let’s not stuff steal with even more functionality as it is. I would rather have them add another F3 or something.

AllNightPlayer.1286:

You want equality? Then give up your special stealth attacks and use normal auto-attacks in stealth like every other class, even Mesmer.
You want to stay special? Then deal with the special treatment.

Sureeee, then thief should get invuls, high uptime on blocks and higher HP pool while we are at it. Oh and better team support. And army of pets. And more high dmg AoE. And more condi removal. And more passives.

There is 1000 things that thief doesn’t have or has close to no access too, they pay high price for measy 3k dmg (not even going to mention sb, sword and co. – they are worthless in most cases) that gets put on CD if target moved, got pulled, blocked attack, blinded attack, went in invul, thief got CCd etc.

Surely, you could argue stealth attacks should be skillful but then threat every other aspect of ALL classes the same. I see NOTHING skillful in current HoT builds. Most of them are close to auto-pilot and are extremely forgiving due to passives, high uptime on survival tools and high access to AoE. Meanwhile Anet wastes times on trying to find ways how to nerf single target attacks that in most cases barely do any dmg and require you to blow CDs/most of ini.

1. nerf thieves to please wvw folk/casuals
2. nerf everything but 1 class
3. overbuff that 1 class to create new fotm
4. make sure engis are viable
5. post muffin pics on reddit

SixxxZ.4317:

I agree, they nerf thiefs ability and d/d is completly usless now in wvw and pvp, but then they have dragonhunters whos traps insta kill any thief and that hasnt got nerfed yet?

anet please think about things before you do them.

Oh they do – they don’t want us to play this class.

Yeah i wish blocking would prevent them from afking in matches heh. I encountered few players that afk’d in match because we had multiple thieves on team (even though we were actually winning lol).

I still find this hilarious (and it happens A LOT):
- lose match? everyone blames me because i play thief. The favorite ones whisper you and then block ofc so you can’t respond xD
- win match? get spammed with whispers asking to team up lel.

Thankfully got my legend – can afk from this game for the rest of the season.

Dirame.8521:

If it was that this is the only season where someone has complained about the matchmaking then I think Anet would be more inclined to listen to you but really…. EVERY. SINGLE. SEASON. has the worst matchmanking. It really is funny.

Because they either make matchmaking that favors players with high MMR or with low MMR. There was never middle ground.

FiveGauge.1357:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

I don’t think any other classes have a 2 to 3+ damage coefficient on most of their weapon skills.

Very perceptive, but high power coefficients are translating into what exactly? What if your power coefficient is out of this world but your pressure is unremarkable, should your power coefficients be reduced for being OP?

Scrapper pressure is unremarkable? Are we playing same game?

We don’t need more dmg, we do plenty of it. What we really need is reliable ways to land it. If Anet refuses to reduce amount of blocks/invuls/heals/passives etc. then we need more tools to deal with those. Making basi unblockable was the step in right direction but way too tiny, way… too…. small, like drop of water in the bucket full of horse crap – sry, bucket is still hella dirty.

Hanth.2978:

That’s because most of the forums are plagued by players who have to face 2-3 guards every match from Amber through Ruby. Guardians for the most part are just face rolling these divisions but in Diamond and Legendary they are being countered much more efficiently. Scrappers are just naturally built to be a better pvp class in the higher divisions.

I am really close to legend atm and diamond/legend divisions are also plagued by DHs. 1 DH may not be issue, combine multiple of them with druid – gl/hf killing anyone or getting the point. In fact, i see so many players there that definitely don’t belong in those divisions based on their rotations but they jut got carried by class.
You may live in denial or accept the fact that the class/build is too rewarding atm and too easy to play.

Kolly.9872:

I don’t bother anymore.
I’ll keep playing my thief till I get bored and then quit for another 6 months.
I also don’t bother anymore in giving suggestions since this forum is never checked by devs.
In the end I’ll play any weapon set I wish to play, I don’t care if it’s considered bad for pvp, wvw or pve.
I don’t care anymore Anet.

This^^. Reached stage of apathy now. I grind my legend every season and then play other games :/

Fun fact, to get fractal skins or fractal wings, you need to do fractals. Do you see people crying about it? No.

Wings are gated behind grind in pvp? Complains every season lol. They are not even that hard to get on first place. Easiest legendary in entire game.

Also, wth, i can’t show off my pvp dedication in other game modes? Really? But it is ok, if i show up with HoT legendaries in pvp?

I think the system is fine as it is, only thing i would change is make leagues and prestige indicators less grindy (atm anyone can farm it, anyone literary).

Gotta love, when Anet employees post information on 3rd party platform instead of official forums, where normal person would look for official info.

My favorite part about this matchmaking: you beat 3-4 man premade with something like 500-150, then next match you end up with that same premade on your team which obviously results in loss.

Jumping puzzle, give us JP! And allow us duel each other in HotM kind of like in wow.

Azukas.1426:

Cynz.9437:

dmndbcK.3425:

Tbh bro, maybe you should just learn from Min Scherzo. He’s the only guy I’ve found who play’s thief that actually kills all of the above specs you mentioned with ease.

Your suggested nerfs are nothing more then voices of the hundreds of casuals who cry about things not dieng when they are just stupid at the game. As a thief, you shouldn’t be a) fighting DH’s, Wars, Rangers alone. b) running anything but d/p, staff in ranked and c) complaining about requiring nerfs when you can perma-cleave for days.

You have essentially named all of the current best specs and their traits/skills that make them the best. However, what you haven’t named are good player’s in top-tier that play them and show you that they are OP.

In casual play, sapphire division and below you will see that these builds destroy people who obviously have no idea what the dodge keys or immobilize is. Outside of that, you will rarely find good power warriors/dh’s/engi’s in upper diamond/legendary division. With this being said, no salt required. It’s time to start learning how-to not rely on your backstab so much and start innovating.

tl;dr OP is probably just another guy who is salty about getting slain on his thief consistently because he is not willing to innovate and adjust to change.
just my 2c

Innovate on thief lol

Meanwhile anet keeps nerfing every weapon set almost every single patch

Why don’t other classes get to “innovate”? Why it is always thieves that have to adapt to non-stop nerfs while every other class is literary on auto-pilot?

Why don’t we bring other classes to thief level? Oh wait, suddenly you wouldn’t be able to reach even ruby and talk crap to other posters.

Rarely find good war/dh/engi in upper divisions? I am in diamond right now and there is always multiple wars, engis, druids and dhs in every single match.

I introduce you to the Acro Trick DD staff thief.

That build along with the D/D variant are pretty much an atrocity to what thief should be.

Funny enough i kill those thieves with some timing. The actual trouble i have vs other dp meta thieves that know wth they are doing.

Something strange i noticed:
- in lower and higher tiers of division i get absolutely garbage games.
- in mid of division i get lot of relative easy games o.o

Lucentfir.7430:

Cynz.9437:

afrocrusade.4253:

Daredevil: Passive evades need time cut down. When a condi d/d DD comes at you mashing 3, dodging repeatedly, and pops his signet to just dodge more, then dodges even more with signet, it’s absolutely stupid. There is no way to fight that.

Or: Vault spam and bound spam on point. Easy.

xD oh my sides

I mean Thief does have 1 passive evade but it’s in a traitline that isn’t used alot!

He specifically said daredevil xD

Devs: splitting skills between pvp and pve would be too confusing for players.

Because fighting petzoo of like 20+ clones/phantasms/horrors/bristlebacks is not confusing kek

afrocrusade.4253:

Daredevil: Passive evades need time cut down. When a condi d/d DD comes at you mashing 3, dodging repeatedly, and pops his signet to just dodge more, then dodges even more with signet, it’s absolutely stupid. There is no way to fight that.

Or: Vault spam and bound spam on point. Easy.

xD oh my sides

dmndbcK.3425:

Tbh bro, maybe you should just learn from Min Scherzo. He’s the only guy I’ve found who play’s thief that actually kills all of the above specs you mentioned with ease.

Your suggested nerfs are nothing more then voices of the hundreds of casuals who cry about things not dieng when they are just stupid at the game. As a thief, you shouldn’t be a) fighting DH’s, Wars, Rangers alone. b) running anything but d/p, staff in ranked and c) complaining about requiring nerfs when you can perma-cleave for days.

You have essentially named all of the current best specs and their traits/skills that make them the best. However, what you haven’t named are good player’s in top-tier that play them and show you that they are OP.

In casual play, sapphire division and below you will see that these builds destroy people who obviously have no idea what the dodge keys or immobilize is. Outside of that, you will rarely find good power warriors/dh’s/engi’s in upper diamond/legendary division. With this being said, no salt required. It’s time to start learning how-to not rely on your backstab so much and start innovating.

tl;dr OP is probably just another guy who is salty about getting slain on his thief consistently because he is not willing to innovate and adjust to change.
just my 2c

Innovate on thief lol

Meanwhile anet keeps nerfing every weapon set almost every single patch

Why don’t other classes get to “innovate”? Why it is always thieves that have to adapt to non-stop nerfs while every other class is literary on auto-pilot?

Why don’t we bring other classes to thief level? Oh wait, suddenly you wouldn’t be able to reach even ruby and talk crap to other posters.

Rarely find good war/dh/engi in upper divisions? I am in diamond right now and there is always multiple wars, engis, druids and dhs in every single match.

Depends how many dead people are on your team. If you team looks fine and alive, just full cap. If someone is coming, just decap. If team needs help, decap.

Nah, they should make choking gas like necros field and block projectiles. If BP blocked projectiles, it would be broken.

The Gearhead.2301:

Why do you say that, Cynz?

1. Because community is like this:
- on forums they cry thieves are OP and demand nerfs, so devs nerf the class, over and over and over again.
- you go in match – people tell you to reroll, over and over and over again. If you don’t do it, flaming, harassing and them afking is pretty much guaranteed. This been like this for 4 seasons now. God forbid, you actually end up with 2 thieves on team – the tantrum, oh dear~
- you win match? people might actually say something nice
- you lose match? your whole team gonna blame you. It is ALWAYS thieves fault that match is lost. Always.

2. Thief is only profession designed around active defense and offense. Rest of the professions are pretty much on auto-pilot.
Anet also envisioned thief as decap/+1 pet and in their vision thief shouldn’t be able to stand a chance in 1v1 situation vs other classes because they are roamers and would be too OP (devs logic, not mine). This means that to be effective on thief you need to be really good.
Normally, if enemy is bad, you may defeat them. However if you meet enemy that is half-decent and plays non-thief class you might have very low chance to kill them by yourself.

Now why it is a problem? Matchmaking is designed to keep you at 50% winrate, artificially. Meaning, that once you played plenty of games and won a lot of games, you will be forced to carry games which means you will get team of potatoes pretty much every second match and will end up in 1v1, 1v2, 1v3 situations all the time in attempt to defend your points, while your entire team is either getting spawn camped or chases 1 guy on roads (prime example, see screentshot: had 4 potatoes on my team literary afking at mid whole match while i was constantly alone on side points fighting off enemies).

It wouldn’t be that bad, if you played any bruiser class (engi, dh, druid), however thief is designed around losing pretty much every 1v1 encounter so you have to be better than your enemies, because you have to overcome devs crappy design and win fights anyway.

You won’t be able to always win fights, so you HAVE to be the decap god. You have to have your eyes always on map and always better rotation than enemy.

Lastly you need to be better than your teammates and make up for their potato mistakes.

As other mentioned however, winning games and knowing you carried your team or just won 1v1 fight vs one of the broken builds makes you feel really really really good (usually followed with hate whispers from your enemy and your teammates asking to team up lel).

P.S.This is however my experience so far (maybe other have better) and i have been playing this game for years, been top 100 on non-farm LB and legend in all 3 seasons (grinding diamond atm), so it is not just HJ stuff.

If you want to play thief in pvp:
1. prepare to have half of pvp community on blocklist
2. be better than everyone else in match

How about defy pain – gain life steal for xxx seconds?

Mirror anguish – your next attack will daze/stun? target for xxx sec.

Some passive traits could be used to reduce recharge time on spells, bit similar to improvisation.

serj.8214:

Cynz.9437:

serj.8214:

More yeah so nice to climb to legend over heads of druids\guards\scrappers more meat pls))) Thiefes useless?) Somebody needs a skill up potion XD

Who said useless? They are just stupidly hard to be effective with, especially if your team is garbage. Meanwhile other classes are pretty much on auto-pilot thanks to passives/instant spells/short CDs.

All that thread is one big ocean of tears that all classes are nerfed to the ground(useless) and guards\scrappers\druids win all and everyone by them selves players even push buttons XD But why some ppl dont have probs with those classes and others cry about them day and night) Those 3 are only OP in low tiers so all i can say just L2P ppl.

People did try and it turned out to be faceroll. That is why every match is flooded with guards and druids.

I have better idea: how about removing those passives on first place.

serj.8214:

More yeah so nice to climb to legend over heads of druids\guards\scrappers more meat pls))) Thiefes useless?) Somebody needs a skill up potion XD

Who said useless? They are just stupidly hard to be effective with, especially if your team is garbage. Meanwhile other classes are pretty much on auto-pilot thanks to passives/instant spells/short CDs.

omega.3758:

Thief: “Welcome friends! Welcome! It’s good to see you here. It was getting kind of lonely being the only class nerfed to the ground. Finally I have some friends (breakdown in tears)”
elementalist, warrior, revenant, mesmer pat thief on the back

Um, wars and revs are not in bottom tier, nor mes for that matter. The only “neighbor” would be ele, if anything.

sophiewhite.3149:

Cynz.9437:

My favorites are people that afk in matches because i or someone else didn’t switch from thief class to something else. It is just soo classic. Those people grief thief players because dev team did poor design decisions and customer support refuses to do anything about such in game griefing.

i cant understand this. i went from playing necro to doing rather well as a thief. dont try to 1v1 people and just be a +1 in fights so you dont die. works really really well and does very decent damage.

Trust me i don’t get it either. I have won games with thief (otherwise i wouldn’t be in legend in all 3 seasons), i also won games with 2 thieves in team. But people would rather throw tantrum before match apparently than even attempt to try.

Yesterday we had 3 thieves on team. We were actually winning, then our mes died and decided it is time to grief: he ran in circles and did nothing effectively causing 4v5 because we didn’t reroll to other classes. I do not understand why these people even queue, i don’t understand why customer support refuses to do ANYTHING about this.

You say anything remotely critical or anything that could be anywhere offensive (prime example: never ask people why they are rude, never give nicknames to servers) – instant ban. In game? Troll away, grief away – nobody does anything about it.

You know what is funny: 2?+ years ago Anet nerfed blackpowder because it was too powerful – yes that tiny circle was too powerful, same with chocking gas. Then i look at all the fields guards can throw on point and ask myself WTH Anet?

livlaender.8790:

@Lucred…, i wrote about “meta builds” and those 6 i mentioned use power based amus (i didnt wrote anything about runes, nore did i wrote something about the viability about condi speccs of those 6 classes)

and @power warrior being terrible in pvp…tell that obindo

Obindo succumbed to condi crap as well. All i saw him play past few days was typical condi build (at least in matches i played so far).

MakubeC.3026:

This change is bullkitten. Thanks God I switched to Revenant. My body can’t withstand all this suffering.

You fell victim to Anet’s marketing strategy