Guild Wars 2

Dual.8953:

Daecollo.9578:

Dual.8953:

Daecollo.9578:

Dual.8953:

Khenzy.9348:

Dual.8953:

That’s different because D/P and D/D have advantages beyond stealth. P/P has unload, blind and unload. P/D only has its stealth attack. Give P/P stealth and it has all of P/D’s tricks and its own. P/D would be worthless in comparison.

ensoriki.5789:

Because D/P is the generally superior option to D/D?

Honestly, with all due respect, I think I see far more possibilities than you may think.

@Dual, that’s why we are suggesting a change to Body Shot, becouse pistol has unload, blind, unload (an on demand, spammable interrupt I’d say too, but whatever), and said shot is never used. P/D when traited for it, has a highly spammable one dimensional rotation that consists on entering stealth constantly, it’s a semi-melee set as well. Adding a blast finisher to P/P wouldnt interfere in the P/D style of play in the slightest, it would even improve it. P/P would now have access to a relatively expensive way to get into stealth, but nowhere near close what P/D can achieve, I donno how this change would stop those that are playing this P/D when P/P with this would be very different.

@ensoriki, that depends, you can’t really say it’s flat out better, even in the current meta. I think it’s evident D/ kitten eeing more play as of late, and maybe even more after this patch, it has a more inititive costly rotation, but you can stack some sweet stealth duration without the risk of failing a C&D, also, a ranged interrupt.

The thing is P/P would have blind, daze, unload, stealth and condition damage and P/D would only have a slightly more budget version of stealth and condition damage.

P/D has blind.

Where? And don’t say Cloaked In Shadow.

They have a trait that blinds nearby foes when they stealth.

This can be more blinds then Black Powder.

Yeah I said don’t mention the trait. A set shouldn’t need traits to match up to a similar set.

If you don’t add traits in the mix then that is rather foolish, alone P/P has no stealth while P/D does.

Dual.8953:

Daecollo.9578:

Dual.8953:

Khenzy.9348:

Dual.8953:

That’s different because D/P and D/D have advantages beyond stealth. P/P has unload, blind and unload. P/D only has its stealth attack. Give P/P stealth and it has all of P/D’s tricks and its own. P/D would be worthless in comparison.

ensoriki.5789:

Because D/P is the generally superior option to D/D?

Honestly, with all due respect, I think I see far more possibilities than you may think.

@Dual, that’s why we are suggesting a change to Body Shot, becouse pistol has unload, blind, unload (an on demand, spammable interrupt I’d say too, but whatever), and said shot is never used. P/D when traited for it, has a highly spammable one dimensional rotation that consists on entering stealth constantly, it’s a semi-melee set as well. Adding a blast finisher to P/P wouldnt interfere in the P/D style of play in the slightest, it would even improve it. P/P would now have access to a relatively expensive way to get into stealth, but nowhere near close what P/D can achieve, I donno how this change would stop those that are playing this P/D when P/P with this would be very different.

@ensoriki, that depends, you can’t really say it’s flat out better, even in the current meta. I think it’s evident D/ kitten eeing more play as of late, and maybe even more after this patch, it has a more inititive costly rotation, but you can stack some sweet stealth duration without the risk of failing a C&D, also, a ranged interrupt.

The thing is P/P would have blind, daze, unload, stealth and condition damage and P/D would only have a slightly more budget version of stealth and condition damage.

P/D has blind.

Where? And don’t say Cloaked In Shadow.

They have a trait that blinds nearby foes when they stealth.

This can be more blinds then Black Powder.

Sword Traits.
+10% Damage – Power
+10% Critical Chance – Critical Strikes.

Dual.8953:

Khenzy.9348:

Dual.8953:

That’s different because D/P and D/D have advantages beyond stealth. P/P has unload, blind and unload. P/D only has its stealth attack. Give P/P stealth and it has all of P/D’s tricks and its own. P/D would be worthless in comparison.

ensoriki.5789:

Because D/P is the generally superior option to D/D?

Honestly, with all due respect, I think I see far more possibilities than you may think.

@Dual, that’s why we are suggesting a change to Body Shot, becouse pistol has unload, blind, unload (an on demand, spammable interrupt I’d say too, but whatever), and said shot is never used. P/D when traited for it, has a highly spammable one dimensional rotation that consists on entering stealth constantly, it’s a semi-melee set as well. Adding a blast finisher to P/P wouldnt interfere in the P/D style of play in the slightest, it would even improve it. P/P would now have access to a relatively expensive way to get into stealth, but nowhere near close what P/D can achieve, I donno how this change would stop those that are playing this P/D when P/P with this would be very different.

@ensoriki, that depends, you can’t really say it’s flat out better, even in the current meta. I think it’s evident D/ kitten eeing more play as of late, and maybe even more after this patch, it has a more inititive costly rotation, but you can stack some sweet stealth duration without the risk of failing a C&D, also, a ranged interrupt.

The thing is P/P would have blind, daze, unload, stealth and condition damage and P/D would only have a slightly more budget version of stealth and condition damage.

P/D has blind.

Grok Krog.9581:

Agreed. I think they could be something like..

5: Might, Fury, and Swiftness lasts 5% longer

15: Banners have 25 to their stats (2 to boon duration/crit damage)

25: Shouts have a longer range (750)

Maybe a little over the top for minor traits but also stuff I came up with on the spot

That is nice, but what if you don’t use shouts or banners? And why is the shout one so much better then the banner one?

Goloith.6349:

If your a warrior you should be running PVT/Runes of the soldier with shouts. This is one of the greatest builds you can have. You have an incredible amount of tank. Then I’d run GS and Sword/Axe for immobilize and whirlwind for bag farming.

Basicly your a guardian with less survivability and damage. :/

Basicly, you have a huge map that is basicly a bunch of squares, these squares would change colors, each colors acted like auras, some of them give conditions, some of them give boons depending on the color.

However, some times they would blink, and if it blinks too much it simply falls off, this makes the map change constantly. Your team has to constantly watch the ground and jump tiles because the map keeps changing.

The objective is not to die, when your team suffers 50 deaths the other team wins.

Blinking Tiles (Any Color.) – This tile is about to fall off, better get off it.
Yellow Tiles – Normal
Green Tiles – “Green Regeneration: +300 health every second.” – Buff
Red Tiles – “-25% Movement Speed” – Debuff
Purple Tiles – “+25% Damage Reduction.” – Buff
Orange Tiles – “+25% Damage Taken.” – Debuff
Blue Tiles – “Cures a condition every 5 seconds.” – Buff
Black Tile – "-300 health every second. – Debuff
Skull Tile (Rare) – “Turns all Boons into Conditions.” – You might wanna avoid this.
King Tile (Rare.) – “Turns all Conditions into Boons.” – You will probably fight for this.
(Each tile has its own symbol, for colorblind players.)

This is all random.

Why is this fun?
The map is constantly changing, and it doesn’t matter if your enemies bunker or make clunky specs like instagib ones, some of the tiles offer significant damage reduction, some offer more damage, your team can use cc to freeze or immobilize people on falling tiles, or they can use the map to lure bunkers into +25% damage taken spots to kill them.

What this map offers
- Strategy.
- Fun.
- Good Replayability.
- Good use of all class abilities, CC, Portals.

Unload
Teleport away from your target, Blast your foe repeatedly with both pistols.
Damage: 101
Number of shots: 8
Combo Finisher: Leap
Range: 900

This would make the P/P thief itself very fun and mobile, you would be teleporting around as much as a staff mesmer does.

Of course the autoattack chain or body shot should have a leap back evasion.

P/P should be all about evasion/teleporting/mobility.

P/P needs leaps/teleporting away. Not stealth.

xrisomilia.5769:

There will be major changes on skills with new patch?

Yep.

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mckzM9mMFvlMMFvlMaxx9Mc9MbmVq

Basicly this.

I can give you one, but it may be useless in 3-4 days.

Laika.8795:

I think thief heals are some of the most balanced heals in game, and should be left as-is.

Stealth heal is fine.

Withdraw needs to roll where your running or looking.

SoM needs upgraded a bunch for its passive effect.

gwawer.9805:

Yeah I wouldn’t care if we just didn’t get the full heal at all for activating the Signet. The point that I take the Signet for is the regeneration that’s what differentiates it from the other healing abilities. Right now the healing regeneration from the Signet is so ridiculously underpowered that anyone is crazy to use it in PVP.

Yep, why use it at all. A Burst heal is better in all situations because you heal WHEN you need it. One of our burst heals cures 2 conditions as well.

Healing Signet should be powerful because it does not heal when you need it, it should be buffed up to what other classes have for that. (Closest being necromancer minion, because it has the same type of healing.)

Warriors don’t have access to protection or regeneration (without dipping 30 points into banners and having to carry them around everywhere… lol.) We are just a giant health pool pretty much since we don’t really lack any passive defenses or sustain. We deserve some high passive healing, especially when it comes to high end pvp/pve.

Nerfing Every class, but not adding anything back for compensation. (Could be different in a couple days.)

I like the scaling of damage, but how could that work with conditions?

When you suggest ideas you have to suggest something really powerful and OP, then listen to suggestions and edit it as it goes.

You can’t just start with something boring + uninteresting.

DESPERADO FTW!

Lighter.5631:

….still….warrior does insane damage

Yeah, but they give up condition removal/healing/defences to do it.

CoaxialMazer.9140:

I would just run 3 banners, and shake it off with the 20 into tactics for the stability/stun break and it gives regen O.O, still like the idea, but i think you could find a slightly more balanced way to trait for it.

Vitality Tree:
5: Empowered:
3% Damage per Boon.

15: Boon Armor:
3% Damage Reduction per Boon.

25: Warlord:
Holding a banner grants 3s of “Protection” every 3 seconds.
Using a Shout grants you and your allies 3s of Stability and Regeneration. – 900 Radius.

CoaxialMazer.9140:

I think the first two are fine considering warriors can’t stack a ton load of boons like guardians, but that banner one i just realized is freaking godly o.o

ill just drop 4 banners with 90% boon duration (2 sup water/monk, 2 maj water, 20% food, and 30 in tactics, not to mention 10% more from banner of tactics) You could get almost perma protection and 20 stacks of might for 30~ secs in a whole group of 5.
I think the shout one is ok though, even though I think if anet did it, it would be like 3 sec each, and perhaps either stability or regeneration, not both.

I like your ideas, but its really hard to tweak to not make tactics tree so great, that all the other trees would looks worthless to put points into them. I would definitely run a boon build with these minor traits.

The problem with it is, it is “godly.” but it just means that you have no utility, no stun breaks, nothing to help you. You “are” the leader. Also it has a max target limit of 5, like all other buffs.

Vitality Tree:
5: Empowered:
2% Damage per Boon.

15: Boon Armor:
2% Damage Reduction per Boon.

25: Warlord:
Using a Banner grants you and your allies 15s of Protection and ‘5’ Might. – 1200 Radius.
Using a Shout grants you and your allies 4s of Stability and Regeneration. – 1200 Radius.

How about that?

Vitality Tree:
5: Empowered:
3% Damage per Boon.

15: Boon Armor:
3% Damage Reduction per Boon.

25: Warlord:
Using a Banner grants you and your allies 15s of Protection and Might. – 1200 Radius.
Using a Shout grants you and your allies 5s of Stability and Regeneration. – 1200 Radius.

TheGuy.3568:

The more I look at them the more they seem like useless traits. Unless you get downed a lot or the people around you get downed a lot it they don’t seem to have much synergy with anything. Maybe I am wrong but I just don’t see it.

I’ve always wanted the ability to pick and choose your 5/15/25 minor-major-master traits.

What P/P Wants:
- Cool Animations – Fixed Animations. (Not slow ones.)
- More damage. (Probably fixed animations.)
- More Mobility (No Stealth.)

Like the Risen Chickens, Jagged Horror should just walk up to the target and explode.

Iavra.8510:

If the wiki is true, healing signet’s passive heals for 200 + 0.033*HP each sec.

Regeneration is 130 + 0.125*HP per sec.

So you need over 760 HP before regeneration starts to heal for more than Healing Signet. That means healing signet is actually stronger unless you spec deep into healing which means also dealing less damage. So warrior can heal for more or the same amount than other classes while also dealing more damage.

The passive minion of necromancer heals for 926 every 2 seconds. And can be traited to do more damage and heal for more as well.

Not sure if serious…i have basically never seen any necro using this because it just dies so fast…

I’m not sure thats the argument, it survives pretty well. It can also be sacrificed early “Instantly.” for a pretty big heal. Its CD to come back and cast time is very small.

If they focus on your pet, then they are not focusing on you, remember that.

More fluid and realistic looking animations (better/faster more fluid to compliment the thief style of gameplay, and fix the speed of pistol’s 1.)

Pistol Mainhand should have 1/2/3 attacks like other weapons, no excuses.
1: Attack twice. (Damage.) – Damage is good.
2: Attack twice and 2s Cripple. (Utility.) – Cripples are nice.
3: Leap away and Attack. (Mobility.) – Just because.

Body Shot needs a second effect or far more damage, its just too little.
Attack + Vulnerability + Boon Punishment: Protection. – Bang!

Unload needs to pierce targets like beam attacks will do soon, it is a string of bullets.
Attack, Pierces targets and hits multiple targets, does more damage. – Why not?

Headshot needs to cause confusion instead of doing damage, no excuses.
3 Stacks of Confusion + Daze. – You knew this was coming…

Black Powder should look like the thief is actually shooting the ground to create the effect.
High AOE Damage + 240 Radius Combo field. – Come on, it costs 6 initiative!

Now you have a really fun and new play-style! :>

This feature is useless if its not clientside, every update/maint resets it and it kitten es me off.

Please change it.

Soulgant.7689:

@Daecollo 1. Marks activate as soon as they dodge roll into them… the roll negates all the damage/conditions
2. I meant d/p thief (not p/d) which do not need to be in melee range to stealth
3. Again they can dodge roll to avoid any damage. They can remove a condition every 3s while in stealth with Shadow’s embrace. Conditions get removed according to a priority system, with bleeds (the main damage source in almost any condition build) always being removed first. A properly built d/p thief can remain in perma-stealth if you get them low enough (with Shadow’s Rejuvenation they regenerate ~330hp/s while in stealth) meaning your conditions are next to useless against them and once they resurface they will most likely be at full health.
4. Not true for d/p thief
5. Again they can dodge roll through them, the only way I see Reaper’s Mark hitting them is if they steal from you. There’s no such thing as a one-hit combo. I think you mean their backstab/basilisk venom/heartseeker combo which again will not be negated at all by fearing them for 1s, at best this will make them waste their steal if they used it against you.
6. Another note, you can’t always fear thieves out of shadow refuge (unless you trait for condition duration) since thieves can place themselves at the end of shadow refuge closest to you. Because of the way fear works, targets walk in the direction you are facing.

And it seems like you are the one that doesn’t know how necromancers or thiefs or dodge rolls work. If you still think you can beat a thief with your necromancer, I would be more than happy to introduce you to good thieves so you can fight them yourself.

@Bull Zooker condition thieves can be beaten by necros, good thieves not running conditions with something similar to 0/20/30/20/0 not so much.

Yes, because D/P thieves don’t need to be in melee to backstab.

Thief is so OP in PvE, people are just screaming for us in Fractals and Dungeons!

Leo G.4501:

Warrior already has widest selection of movement skills. I wouldn’t mind longer range on them though, but maybe requiring a trait for it…

Yes, but they are tied mostly to the “greatsword” which is probably the best weapon set…

Zikory.6871:

DeceiverX.8361:

I’d love to see what build you’re using to be honest. I have more attack, crit chance, and likely crit damage than you, yet you somehow dealt double my BS damage.

If you’re not running the 100% crit chance from stealth trait with only 35% crit chance, you’re not a backstab thief, sorry. You’re praying you get a lucky crit for huge burst 1/3 of the time.

Thats a mesmer, hes referring to a thief that hit him.

Was his armor repaired?

Thieves should do more damage during the Night Time.

Fun Fact, Axe Autoattack does more damage then backstab does, and its an AOE attack.

Dual.8953:

stof.9341:

bhagwad.4281:

This is most surprising. You’re comparing an autoattack to a skill that does some of the highest damage in the game?

Congratulations sir. I believe you have proved your point convincingly

Did you knew that the warrior axe 3rd autoattack chain does as much damage as a backstab on the back? :p

/looks

Backstab
-403 (front)
-806 (back)

Triple Chop
-(x3) 858

Sheesh.

This is hilarious.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Triple_Chop
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Backstab

vapor.5390:

i said it is as good as other warior healing skills and you can not compare different professions skills with eachother, if y cant understand that then i dont care foff.

And yes you can, i have done it alot when i used to play in your s/tPvP, if y cant do that then too bad again i dont care and foff

Everyone seems to compare there class with Warriors, but we arn’t able to do the same?

I won’t even comment on the spelling, you could not be English.

lorndarken.3702:

their health did not degenerate ? and you could potentially get at least 5 jagged horrors ?

If it had no internal cooldown.

One of the biggest problems for warriors in the game is in the game is the reliant on the greatsword and sword for mobility, there are some weapons that need to be taken up to par.

Shield Bash
Rush at your target and bash them with your shield.
Damage: 302
Stun: 1 s
Combo Finisher: Leap
Range: 900
(Animation: Charge at your target very quickly, smashing him with your shield.)

Staggering Blow
Charge at your target and push back nearby foes with a staggering blow.
Damage: 481
Knockback: 180
Combo Finisher: Whirl
Range: 1200
(Animation: Charge at your target, when you get to the target, perform the attack, it is mostly a swing, and much faster then the current animation.)

Crushing Blow
Leap at your foe with a crushing blow. (hey that rhymes!)
4 Vulnerability: 10 s
Damage: 336
Combo Finisher: Leap
Range: 700
(Animation: Leap at your target, slamming the mace down on his head!)

Inf Strike against Heartseeker thieves is HILARIOUS….

Its pretty bad.

oZii.2864:

knyy.6427:

It makes me sad and mad whenever i see that, warrior skills and traits are underwhelming in comparison to all the other professions. Maybe there exists some advantageous traits/skill but i know none.
There are all well known, but i wanna collect all here.
I’ll compare warrior skills/traits with similar skills/traits of other professions.

Rush – Ride the lightning
Both are on 20s CD and have the same range. Rtl is not affected by cripple/chill, you can use it in midair and the damage it does is instantly and not like rush after a 1s animation.
Because of the animation you’ll be surprised if you do damage with Rush (mostly in PvP).

vigor/swiftness
Elementalists, Guardians and Mesmer have the trait to get vigor on critical hit and so they have perma vigor. What do we get? Kitten “Furious Speed” with 10% chance on critical hit to get swiftness! Wow, first vigor > swiftness in combat and we only get a 10% while all other similar traits get 100%?? Come on… “Vigorous Focus” is not an option because it is connected to stances. (CD on stances are little bit too high, especially “Endure Pain”). And we are talking about Adept-tier-traits – all of them are.

brawn
All other professions get 1% out of 1 point for their profession traitline. We get 0.1%. I see warrior is the only one which improves the damage and others reduce “just” the CD but then give us something else. Its just plainly useless.

hammer toss
The second down skill. Its just so bad. Single target CC while most other professions have multi target ones.

underwater downed skills
Well, no ranged attack available, just melee…

leap range – HS/Evisc
You all know Heartseeker. It does very good dmg (to enemys low on HP) and is an incredible gap closer and not effected by cripple/chill. And we have Eviscerate…Its our *burst*skill with a 10s CD and the need to have full adrenalin to do some good damage (only if it crits). Thieves can spam Heartseeker.

Maybe you can add some other skills/traits. Thank you.

So what I get from this is you want the warrior to do stuff other classes do lol. Every class is different taking x class skill vs warrior skill that serves similar purpose isn’t a good argument and goes no where. Every class could do this with all their skills.

A Mesmer could say why doesn’t my heal refresh my class mechanic like surge does and why does it depend on how many clones I have. Why do I have to take a trait to remove condition on heal when mending doesn’t need a trait and it removes 2 conditions. It would go on forever. Just look at what needs tweaking based on the profession itself, comparing is pointless.

“You all know Heartseeker. It does very good dmg (to enemys low on HP) and is an incredible gap closer and not effected by cripple/chill.”

Except.. it is effected by both those things.

vapor.5390:

why would y compare it to other professions skills, there are so many things between professions that y cant just compare the skills that they have. You can only compare it to other skills available for that profession

No profession skills are the same jack, I compared it to something as similar as I could.

Both of them have the same CD, both of them have a timed heal “Heals every 1-2 seconds.”

Soulgant.7689:

I’m sorry to say that you will almost never win against a good p/d shortbow thief 1vs1. Putting marks under your feet is nearly useless for dealing as they can just dodge roll through them and avoid the damage but they can tell you their position somewhat and give you time to react before a backstab. Rooting a good thief and well bombing them won’t work at all either as they will either Shadowstep out or use Infiltrator’s arrow to negate your full combo. Not to mention most good thieves will be running Withdraw (heal skill that removes cripple, immobilize and chill and evades attack, 15s cooldown). Conditions also won’t bother them at all if they are running Shadow’s Embrace (removes a condition every 3s in stealth). With it they can remove 2 conditions in every 3s stealth (providing they don’t chain stealth), one at the beginning of stealth and one at the 3s mark. Then even if you do manage to get them low, they can easily perma-stealth & regen all their health and proceed to whittle you down. My advice is never run solo as a necromancer as we are far from the best 1vs1 class.

1 You can’t dodge roll through marks and CnD because as soon as you get into the mark at the end of the dodge roll, it activates.

2 have you ever played p/d thief? they need to get in melee to stealth and hit you with CnD otherwise they can’t hurt you.

3 Marks under your feet means they have to hit your marks to hit you, thieves don’t have heavy condition removal, the pressure alone keeps most thieves at bay, especially if your a heavy condition user.

4 They have to be in melee to stealth without using utilities.

5 You forgot to mention “Reaper’s Mark.” which has less of a cooldown then thieves “Stealth/One-hit combo.” putting this mark under your feet completely negates it.

From your comments, it feels like you neither play a necromancer or a thief, and understand how neither work.

Soltanus.6753:

I have the same problem on my Male Sylvari Ranger. So far all the leather coats I find that hang down below the waste are flared out really far. It’s like I have a really big butt and hips. In fact most of the medium armors I’ve found so far, clearly seem to be too big for me. It’s as if I have an aura about me that pushes the clothes 6 or so inches away from my character’s body.

I don’t remember what body type I have.

Yes, and it feels like nobody is doing anything about it either… :/

vapor.5390:

o.m.g cant all these people just roll to some other profession if y have broblems playing with warrior, it is absolutely not underpowered in any way.
And what the h are you talking healing signet is useless compared to the others, it got same healing amount compared to others in seconds, the difference is that signet is always effective becouse when its passive it heals the small damages you get, when y happen to need a bit more healing then y can trigger it to heal a bit more, it is easier to find a spot to use it than arush becouse arush heals atleast half of your health(more to nontankys) so you have to wait for the right moment or spend most of its potential for nothing. And mending lose a lot of its potential if its not curing some dangerous condition,or if you are waiting to use it for curing those so y might end up losing some effective healing/or curing while waiting for right moment to use it too. So signet might be less effective in burst healing but it is way more stabile for you if y are not dying within first 10seconds versus everyone and for those who survive longer its most of the time more effective healing source than those other 2

The passive minion of necromancer heals for 926 every 2 seconds. And can be traited to do more damage and heal for more as well.

That is 463 healing every second (without bonuses), compared to Healing Signets 200, that is more then double.

The abilities have the same cool-down, and the Minion can be sacrificed instantly when its almost dead for another burst heal.

Thief is very easy.

Put marks under your feet.

DanH.5879:

i can’t understand, why they do not learn to dodge the C&D, but complain about
sneak attack/backstab/Surprise Shot/Tactical Strike.
it’s a very bad L2 kitten ue here, or i don’t get it ?

Problem with that is, some times its hard to see it because of culling.

bhagwad.4281:

Daendur.2357:

bhagwad.4281:

Daendur.2357:

bhagwad.4281:

Daendur.2357:

The whole thief class doesn’t have cooldowns on skills… why tu put cooldown to backstab ? just because it deals more damage ? we already said that that damage is there because of a state (stealth) and position requirement.
So no, I wouldn’t agree with a 2 sec cd on bs.
tbh if you, as a mesmer, die by a thief, there’s something wrong with you, not with BS nor stealth.

Backstab uses initiative just like every other thief skill? As far as I know that’s not the case. Am I wrong?

Backstab is available only from stealth. How do you gain stealth ?

I see…so if CnD merely gave you access to BS without the stealth you’ll be completely ok with that?

Ahem..ahem.

With increased BS damage, to balance the lack of surpriseness, yes. Of course multiple times in a 3-4 secs window.

So the cost of CnD is not just for BS as is, but for stealth as well. Given that you can regenerate initiative when going into stealth and also recover initiative while in stealth, that’s not really a very high cost at all…

Out of all the posts here, not one person has complained about the cost of CnD. Because it’s minimal. To say you have a god given right to land a BS multiple times for the pittance cost of initiative is entirely disproportionate.

The cost of CnD is you have to go into kissing range to use it. Its a very slow animation and it is easy to dodge as well. However because of culling the thief is only visible for a little bit while he does all this, making it really hard to dodge.

Armor after 2600 still DR’s but not as much.

From what I read Ez, you play a necromancer. Necromancer is probably one of thieves worst enemies and one of the hardest to kill classes in the game.

I play an 80 thief, warrior and necromancer. Thieves are a joke to me with Marks.

L2p

Svarty.8019:

I saw this and lolled. Unbelievably the devs actually try to justify the thief: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCUvIrH2BlU#t=1h28s
That stunned silence at 1h 2m 19s made me laugh my kitten off.

“One shotting them over/over/over.”

You know Steal is on a 45 second cool-down, right?