Guild Wars 2

it’s a lot better the shadowstep stomp… but has 50sec cd against the 3sec of stealth.

As shown in the video stealth stomp + c&d is a common way of acting. They should have done something like “if you don’t perform any action you’ll get revealed” so you can’t just c&d → wait → c&d etc etc.
Also every block stance/immunity correctly timed will prevent any form of damage AND apply revealed.

@Sebrent = how is the s/d damage ? Can you actually kill someone?

maybe something selectable like the daily mission.

Zumy.6318:

See? The anger is getting stronger in you! As I feel the dark side expanding in your young heart.

Indeed it isn’t. I don’t know why you think I hate you… I wasn’t sarcastic. Maybe you are the one on the dark side and not able to recognize love when you see it…

Zumy.6318:

Daendur.2357:

Zumy.6318:

Daendur.2357:

Zumy.6318:

I will kill you all, no matter how stealth works.

no :-P

The power of memory is weak in you, young padawan.

I remember quite well, indeed.

Then the power of troll/ing is strong in you, young Jedi Master.

Ahahah you’re so funny.
And actually a good player, too bad we moved up (not trolling).
I hope we can fight again some day.

Weapons: Dagger / Pistol
Rotation: 5-1-1-1-5-1-1-1-5 …

Zumy.6318:

Daendur.2357:

Zumy.6318:

I will kill you all, no matter how stealth works.

no :-P

The power of memory is weak in you, young padawan.

I remember quite well, indeed.

Zumy.6318:

I will kill you all, no matter how stealth works.

no :-P

Negative AoE (direct damage, conditions etc) and positive ones (boons) must managed differently.
a 5 man group fighting a 20 man group should be able to hit all of them, but without boon application limit it will be easier for the big group to have full stacks for everyone.

Good fights yesterday [EVO]… too bad for the trains occasionally overwhelming us

Teamkiller.4315:

Daendur.2357:

Fuzzion.2504:

Once culling is fixed, things are going to be very,very different

Source: 10 years of DAoC experience

Also removing AoE target cap will help.

Only if you remove boon sharing cap as well.

No. It will help zergs.

Fuzzion.2504:

Once culling is fixed, things are going to be very,very different

Source: 10 years of DAoC experience

Also removing AoE target cap will help.

Hello,
there are a lot of passive skills with cooldown and we have no idea of when that cooldown is going to end.
Can you place some icons on the screen to let us see that cooldown?

e.g.:
Last Refuge – Use Blinding Powder when your health reaches 25% (90-second cooldown).

When I’m low on health, I’ll act in a different way if I know that Last Refuge is up (I won’t c&d or waste my active Blinding Powder)

An the same goes for every profession.

Thanks.

so let’s make rapid fire beam…

That would be OP … 7 / 8 k * 3 in a row …

Edeor.9720:

Daendur.2357:

thieves should use 1/4 endurance per dodge, not 1/2, and increase swiftness on dodge from 2 to 5 sec.

And the god mode skill? LOL

With feline grace trait your suggestion means perma-dodge thieves. Wow guys you even don’t know your own class -.-

Oh man, thanks God you told me that!
You are my new idol, I want a poster of you in my bedroom.

wish.3102:

LionZero.3479:

If one of your Illusions does damage then i also want your mes to be revealed out of stealth, it’s the same logic you apply on choking gas and caltrops as both are indirect damage.

Speaking of mesmers, when are all of us thieves going to get together and make 5000 threads talking about how clones are unfair because we can’t tell where the mesmer is, and it gives them an unfair advantage, and complain til clones are taken away? After that I say we should team up and go after guardians and rangers and their super protection buffs.

Thieves act in a different way. We will silent adapt any situation and achieve our goal, no matter what.

thieves should use 1/4 endurance per dodge, not 1/2, and increase swiftness on dodge from 2 to 5 sec.

LionZero.3479:

If one of your Illusions does damage then i also want your mes to be revealed out of stealth, it’s the same logic you apply on choking gas and caltrops as both are indirect damage.

yes, that’s correct.

jportell.2197:

teg.1340:

They are also mentioning a possible nerf to Mug damage.

The proposed change to revealed is fine, but IMO revealed debuff should also be applied:

1. when thief uses any damage skill
2. when thief get downed
3. when thief use stomp

Are you referring to caltrops and sb 4? if so I agree… IF the thief does any form of damage SB 4 or Caltrops.. Stealth should break.

Agree with this.
1. when they do damage (not use a damage skill)
2. not needed
3. no, this would just be stupid.

wish.3102:

Anyway, this isn’t going to fix the problem the whiners have with thieves. Want to know what’s going to happen now? Instead of relying on stealth to stay in a fight, every thief is simply going to run full out damage spec (which most don’t actually do right now) with shadow refugee. Fights against thieves are going to go like this: Thief uses Baskilisk venom and hits you from behind while you’re not looking then burns their burst cycle of CnD and backstab and then wastes all initiative on heartseeker. If at any point the person they are fighting stun breaks and moves away, they will drop shadow refugee and just leave. If the person they are fighting does not die, they will drop shadow refugee and leave. If someone else shows up mid fight, they will drop shadow refugee and leave. If anything at all happens that is not exactly as the the thief wants, they will drop shadow refugee and leave.

OMG I beg you, NO!
Just reading this it’s revolting. This is the dead thief breviary.

The only problem is:
does revelaed trigger when a stealth ends or when you leave stealth?
1- will broke the class
2- not a real big problem

what I mean is SR pulses stacking stealth if revealed trigger when the first pulse goes off then we have to think to big changes to our builds… otherwise you just have to time well you skills to not leave stealth.

I think it would be better to wait and see what they actually will do.
You may be disappointed.
It’s a sPvP interview and he said “regardless of how you stealth” not “regardless if you do damage or not”.
Dunno….

i meant direct damage not dagger/dagger.

Amins.3710:

15s-20s.

lol … balance Chief at work here…

The problem is that your amor has Condition Damage as main stat and you are running a dd build.
I’ll suggest you a Valkyrie armor with beryl orb + zerk jewels to raise your critical damage, critical chance and power.
Your backstab will be much more strong.
Also consider to take the 100%dmg from stealth.

GlassCannon is risky, no matter what. Everything else is BS

Opynn.2936:

Daendur.2357:

btw: thieves will continue to crush you, little noobs.

Let the name calling begin!
Why do you people have that childlish atttude: “Who i defeat is a noob and its make me a pro”.

Back to topic:
I will belive it when I see it. Skill lag will be unbearable IMO.

oh it’s just a reply to the “thieves will suck” argument someone wrote before.

I hope they recoded their game to remove culling AND skill lag.
A game where only zergers can play (ikittenerg you press random buttons and cast random skills, so timing isn’t necessary) is a kitten.
And again, about “nameplates only” I mean LOL !! srsly?!?! It doesn’t matter who you attack as long as you attack something…

btw: thieves will continue to crush you, little noobs.

a word suddenly comes to my mind: April.

Sunflowers.1729:

Daendur.2357:

Sunflowers.1729:

There are 2 kinds of permastealth:

A player chaining stealth skills to stay in stealth forever- this isn’t a problem in my opinion as they can’t do anything back to you either.

A player using very spammable stealthing abilities that allow a thief (usually D/P or P/D) to be near-unkillable while still outputting high amounts of damage. As someone who plays a thief like this, it is overpowered since you don’t need to build overtly tanky and can still have bunker-levels of survivability.

That’s what some of us mean by ‘permastealth’.

P/D requires c&d to keep on stealthing and that’s where it comes to bad opponents not able to negate a c&d.

D/P has a straight access to stealth but it requires 9 initiative out of 12 and it is hardly spammable. Of course traits can help here.

Anyway they are not “near-unkillable” especially if they want to do some kill.

I use the D/P build all the time and stealth is extremely spammable, especially since you have Blinding Powder and Hide in Shadows. Not sure why anybody believes stealth is hard to enter in combat. I literally stealth every 3-4 seconds. Go on, try it:

30 points into Shadow Arts with 2 initiative regen upon stealthing.
Dagger + Pistol
Blinding Powder & Hide in Shadows (and Shadow Refuge for more silliness).

The damage is amazing with a free backstab every time too. If I don’t have the revealed debuff, I am in stealth or will enter it within 1-2 seconds. Don’t even need to CnD off anything.

Well, indeed I was thinking about it, since last change to Shadow Shot, but I’m a little afraid from the high ini cost of the combo.

Sunflowers.1729:

There are 2 kinds of permastealth:

A player chaining stealth skills to stay in stealth forever- this isn’t a problem in my opinion as they can’t do anything back to you either.

A player using very spammable stealthing abilities that allow a thief (usually D/P or P/D) to be near-unkillable while still outputting high amounts of damage. As someone who plays a thief like this, it is overpowered since you don’t need to build overtly tanky and can still have bunker-levels of survivability.

That’s what some of us mean by ‘permastealth’.

P/D requires c&d to keep on stealthing and that’s where it comes to bad opponents not able to negate a c&d.

D/P has a straight access to stealth but it requires 9 initiative out of 12 and it is hardly spammable. Of course traits can help here.

Anyway they are not “near-unkillable” especially if they want to do some kill.

LordByron.8369:

wrong…

They fixed for the 3rd or 4th time FEW stealth abuses.

There are still too many…. and as i said its not bad players getting killed.

Its more about vids of thing like
-insane bursts from stealth with numbers and build.
-permastealths in various forms…..

i repeat the issue is that thieves are fine with them able to have a burst opening and a strong escape mechanic if they fail…

Its exactly what anet said is unfair for warriors…
Being able to go glass cannon without the risk of being glass cannons.

And that is not even the only issue…

oh I see, you are right, and I strongly agree with you, except that videos are montages showing:
- thieves performing useless permastealth (what the hell is the meaning of that) with specific build;
- GC thieves doing insane damage on 1 target and then “next clip”.
- bad players getting trolled by c&d

it’s not possible to do everything.

if you find other stealth issues (like c&d on walls) please submit them so a fix will come.

LordByron.8369:

Daendur.2357:

Columba.9730:

sostronk.8167:

Jaytee.9513:

If thieves are blaming culling as the fundamental problem to the OP’ness of stealth, What should ANET do if they can’t fix it?

That is the question…….

People state that this is the reason for the seeming imbalance to the skills of thieves, now please state how they should fix this if culling can’t be eliminated.

This is not about crying or whining, this is about a problem that many players feel needs to be addressed…..

How can so many complaints arise if there wasn’t a problem?

Responses from the ANET dev teams would be greatly appreciated.

Not that many complaints have arised. Its just a vocal minority on an internet gaming forum.

lol wrong. Thousands of complaints. you don’t see them because the threads are deleted.

It’s not thousands of complaints.. it’s you and a bunch of other people keeping write “Stealth is OP because it’s OP!” over and over again stomping your feet.

no…
That is for other classes complaints..
Stealth complaints are actually the most documented with videos (not players pwning a bunch of newbies but mechanic abuse) pics and facts.

I think they had so much feedback they should’ve seen how easily abusable stealth is but they only slowly toggle few of those abuse …just to not admit the issue is stealth itself

stealth abuse has been removed last patch, removing the possibility to stack stealth hitting walls.
If a thief enter stealth by c&d you and you can’t evade/blind/block/immune/daze/kb/kd it’s only your problem and you can record it thousands of times the only results will be thousands of videos showing bad players getting owned.

Opynn.2936:

We must face it that stealth will never be nerfed/tuned down. Only thing that we can hope for fix for culling.
Every day in wvw kill more and more thieves. Most of them (sorry to say that) are just nabz in CoF armor spaming heartseeker like there is no tomorow. Even though i can deafeat thief easily i still think stealth is OP. But im not gona post about it on forums anymore. I will do what i did in all my previous mmos. I will hunt thieves.
I hunted Bright Wizards and Witch Hunters in WAR.
I hunted speed hacking Vampires in Darkeden int.
I hunted rougues in WoW.
I will /laugh at body of every donwed theif. I’m not gona stopm them. I will just hit them from time to time to lengthen downed state. I advice you all not-theif players to do the same- adapt. L2fo-Learn to fight overpowerd-ness

you’re a bad boy!

Marcarus.5012:

Fot the second time today I was defeated by a thief inside a castle and I can’t see them until they attack more than once. In both instances they had defeated another player and then myself. Apparently they have abilities that extend beyond a few seconds and can remain cloaked. My complaint is that they cannot be spotted for what seems like an 15 -20 seconds and apparently have full offensive capabilities to attack in addition to not being able to be spotted. Whats up with this? Why should I have to run for my life just because there is a thief in the area? If they just used resources to defeat another player then they shouldn’t have the advantage on another player who has full resources. What gives here, I read about this situation before, so it’s not that this is a unique occurrence?

And once you’ve spotted that thief he used his shield to block attacks for like 10 minutes while kicking you as* and eating a sandwich ?
If not he didn’t do well.

btw gratz for the daily “thief QQ post”.

LordByron.8369:

i see thieves players wants:

-great burst in GC
-best mobility in game
-and also a strong defensive mechanic

Basically they wat to be all around….

Lets give them heavy armor, high starting HP and a pet ……then they will be balanced.

I just ask devs (we saw they use thieves in www) to just admit what thieves can do…

A single thief can keep a small/mid zerg busy for too much….and possible even escape.
No other class can do that.

And that is what happens in www every day.

Stealth is not only invisibility but a nice invulnerability to any targeted skill even if the skill channeling already started.

No please, don’t give us a pet, unless he can stealth with us, otherwise he would reveal our position.
I’m fine with heavy armor and high starting hp (30k could be ok).

Columba.9730:

sostronk.8167:

Jaytee.9513:

If thieves are blaming culling as the fundamental problem to the OP’ness of stealth, What should ANET do if they can’t fix it?

That is the question…….

People state that this is the reason for the seeming imbalance to the skills of thieves, now please state how they should fix this if culling can’t be eliminated.

This is not about crying or whining, this is about a problem that many players feel needs to be addressed…..

How can so many complaints arise if there wasn’t a problem?

Responses from the ANET dev teams would be greatly appreciated.

Not that many complaints have arised. Its just a vocal minority on an internet gaming forum.

lol wrong. Thousands of complaints. you don’t see them because the threads are deleted.

It’s not thousands of complaints.. it’s you and a bunch of other people keeping write “Stealth is OP because it’s OP!” over and over again stomping your feet.

Sunflowers.1729:

Can you guys stop using sPvP as an example – maybe I can say that since 4 Warrior 1 Mesmer outputs the highest damage in dungeons, that makes such a composition overpowered in WvW too?

indeed it is.

Sunflowers.1729:

Edit: If I need to concentrate very hard to beat any thief (but still beat him!) but can effortlessly destroy any other class how is that not a sign that the thief is OP?

not every thief, just the good ones. and you cannot “effortlessly destroy any other class” just the bad ones.

silentnight warrior.2714:

Just put the CnD with a 20 sec cooldown on the stealth. You will be able to use the skill when you want but only will give stealth 20 sec after the first use. That way you will use it when you realy need.

why not 1 minute ? or better once a day … it will be so precioussss

i use MF gear for fractals and still have good dps (with carrion equip it will be better)
I think bleeding is the key.
25 0 0 20 25 d/d – SB
vigor on heal and steal, caltrops on dodge
withdraw as hiling skill (for the short cooldown)
put a couple of poison fields then go melee caltrops everywhere, LDB and go away…
it’s good for trash and static bosses. You should run with ppl that do not use too many conditions.

Columba.9730:

Daendur.2357:

Columba.9730:

Daendur.2357:

LordByron.8369:

A good thief won t die against almost any class….

works as intended.

Where does it state that its intended that thieves never die 1:1?

in every concept ANet wrote about thieves.
even so it is not true and there are a lot of players that can deal with a thief and kill him, the fact that you can’t doesn’t mean that no one can.

Show me exactly where they claimed this.

i won’t do Google’s job.

I think the problem is a lot of people don’t know how to fight a thief, or don’t want to do it.
Fighting a thief is more than just a mere “he does this, I’ll do that”; you have to use your brain and actually think about what he will do.
I read the need to base your actions upon prediction is wrong and creates thieves’ OPness, but I think prediction is just the ability of reading a fight, must be used in every situation (not only against thieves) and it’s the difference between a good player and an average one.
To be able to predict what your opponents are going to do, is what makes you win an inc, even (especially) speaking about groups fights.
Every monkey can press a button 1 when the green light turns on and button 2 when it goes off. Luckily gw2 is more than that.
As a thief, if I don’t predict when a warrior’s going to frenzy-100b me I’ll be dead, and it’s not a matter of “but you can see it” because when you see it it’s too late.
My point is that fighting a thief can be hard, they are not “free kills” and ppl hate that; this does not mean they are overpowered because even a bunker guardian is not a free kill, nor a d/d ele and so on.
So please, next time you’ll find a thief don’t think “omg a thief, I can’t kill him” just try to be smarter and make him do some mistakes, I’ll assure you he will pay for them.

Columba.9730:

Daendur.2357:

LordByron.8369:

A good thief won t die against almost any class….

works as intended.

Where does it state that its intended that thieves never die 1:1?

in every concept ANet wrote about thieves.
even so it is not true and there are a lot of players that can deal with a thief and kill him, the fact that you can’t doesn’t mean that no one can.

Dual.8953:

Shadow.3475:

So stuped that player can stealth midle off a attack, that should be imposible, at least add so as long as you get damage you cant stealth, so tick damage and all most be removed before you can stealth. (if you have tick damage and stealth you get unstealth when tick damage you)

That’s essentially saying “make it so this class can’t defend while being attacked” or better yet in P/D’s case, “make all damage dazes this class”.

he obviously never played as a thief otherwise he’d be aware of the blasphemy he wrote.

Brassnautilus.2941:

Psybunny.8906:

This would buff unicorn thieves way too immensely. This would be way too OP.

^^
d/p-init return build swap to shortbow and full bar holy crap
like there isn’t enough ppl crying about thieves already. what you guys want to do, get the class deleted?

yes! let’s all reroll eles and let ‘em see what’s really OP. lol

To me thief is a solo roamer good at scouting and cherry picking (he can also find his spot in a group).
If you are the noob that was AFK and you are going to join your group it’s only your bad and it is correct that a thief will crush you in the way.
WvW isn’t 1v1 nor 1v2 … it’s created for parties. 5 – 10 – 15 ppl playing together (and also the zerg)
So please stop crying, you are really becoming ludicrous.

LordByron.8369:

A good thief won t die against almost any class….

works as intended.

LordByron.8369:

….

just your opinion.

GW2 Wiki:

Thieves are less powerful in terms of raw strength and durability in comparison to some professions. They must rely on stealth, evasion, surprise attacks, and debilitating and damaging conditions to overpower their opponents. An experienced thief can take on multiple targets but preferably one at a time.

A thief must rely on stealth because thieves, compared to other professions, have few to no ways to gain Protection, Stability, Regeneration, Aegis, Fury, Might, Retaliation, Vigor.

The only way we can have a boons is using steal on mesmers or with some traits, which requires a dedicated build.
Moreover we wear medium armor and we have the lowest life pool.

If there are a lot of players that have not problems with stealth and you think it is greatly OP, maybe it’s really a L2 kitten ue.
Otherwise I cannot understand how is it possible that someone has no problems with something so overpowered and unbalanced.

Instead of repeating for the millionth time “thieves are OP” or “thieves are unbalanced” try to explain me how so many people can counter them and have no problems with stealth nor thieves in general.