CnD has an easy recognizable animation. You have to react when you see CnD, because when you are down it’s too late.
If the thief comes unseen and you have a GC build with no autodefense you deserve to die and it’s correct that way.
Say the opposite is justifying bad players.
BS takes about 0.25s to go off, still less than a second for reaction.
Kill Shot is 2s on reaction.
Hundred Blades is 3.5s with a 1.5s BR to prep it. The CND combo is basically 2x – 4x as fast as other kill combos.
Shrug.
In the CnD combo you have to consider also CnD which has 0.5s cast time.
So basically it is CnD (0.5) + Steal + Backstab (0.25) = 0.75s and requires correct timing of 3 skills and has 900 range
Kill shot is 1.75s doesn’t require coordination (1 key) and has 1500 range
Hundred blades is 3.5s but it’s aoe, channeling 9attacks and deals more damage
Pro and cons… hard to say this is OP that isn’t.
Human average reaction time is about 0.25s so, even with CnD combo you have a lot of time to do what you need.
edit: on a second thought smoke screen has the problem it needs initiative to achieve the goal… i think shadow trap is better
Thats why I mentioned “Infusion of Shadow” which gives you 2 Initiative back everytime you use heartseeker or cluster bomb with a smoke field. So yes it needs initiative but you get some back. Pretty fair I’d say. You could use “Patience” to regain initiative even faster but I won’t recommend that.
Are you sure?
I tested it some times ago and “infusion of shadow” does not work that way, indeed the tooltip says “Gain 2 initiative when using a skill that stealths you.” not “when you enter stealth” and you are not using a skill that stealths you (like C&D) but you are entering stealth using a combo.
Thieves are still jaw droppingly overpowered and very very easy to play – a bad combination.
They need stealth to be less of a get out of jail free card. Fewer routes in to stealth, a greater revealed time and damage breaking stealth.
Steal is a utility skill – utility skills should not do 4-5k damage. That needs reducing.
Cloak and dagger is a restealth skill – decide if that is offense or defense and adjust the damage/utility accordingly. 5-6k damage is too much in its current state.
Backstab – far too high on damage when used with the above. This needs reducing.
Heartseeker – mobility, damage and a finisher all in one spammable ability? This needs adjustment – remove the bonus damage at sub 50% and decide if its a gap closer or a damage ability and adjust accordingly – one has to go.
As we have it now we have a large population of thieves many relying on a steal/cnd/BS macro to one button down any target.
ANET wake up and listen – yes warriors have too much damage, and mesmers are a little OTT but 90% of the class complaints on your forums are about 1 class – thieves.
You remember me of Silvio Berlusconi. You spread out lies and make black propaganda; or maybe you are just ignorant and don’t know anything about this profession.
So please refrain from making this kind of posts.
It takes less than half a second for the CND + Mug + BS to land, from 900 range. You don’t react to that in WvW when there are tons of players with every spec imaginable in the fray.
The backstab build is mostly a one shot kill every 45s.
Mug+CnD+backstab ~ 4000+6000+10000 in wvw to lvl 80.
Only to bunkers the damage is significant lower, like 2000+4000+7000.
But after the burst just press 2 for heartseeker.
This build is too op, and d/p permastealth is more than op.
And come on seriously? You cant compare backstab to killshot or churning earth for very obvious reasons like cast time,CD and animations.
The backstab build is mostly a one shot kill every 45s on bad players.
Mug+CnD+backstab ~ 4000+6000+10000 in wvw to lvl 80 if they crit and your opponent does nothing (no blind, no dodge, no stun etc etc).
Only to bunkers, and people with fingers, the damage is significant lower, like 2000+4000+7000, or 2000+0+0.
But after the burst just press 2 for heartseeker especially if your opponent is in block or immune.
ok, I fixed it for you.
kill shot in the crowd can be quite unnoticed and usually eles using churning earth teleport on the target to be sure to hit him.
i use basilisk venom in my build and stealth has 900 range. so they dont know the exact time i hit them and if i do, they cant use a stun break fast enough (nobody can) and i can land my full burst.
There are traits like instinctual response that can mock your opening. Also I don’t agree with you that nobody can use a stun breaker… as a thief i use blinding powder which gives me half a second to place a shadowstep.
kill shot in the crowd can be quite unnoticed and usually eles using churning earth teleport on the target to be sure to hit him.
If you get hit by a churning earth with teleport you are just a bad player like the one you described before.
Now for every thief who doesnt know how to defend against churning earth! Watch the cast animation and in the last second DOGDE! Easy as that you say? Yes I do!
i have no problem with churning earth, i was just saying that it can be compared even if i think the comparison between BS and CE is quite stupid.
The backstab build is mostly a one shot kill every 45s.
Mug+CnD+backstab ~ 4000+6000+10000 in wvw to lvl 80.
Only to bunkers the damage is significant lower, like 2000+4000+7000.
But after the burst just press 2 for heartseeker.
This build is too op, and d/p permastealth is more than op.
And come on seriously? You cant compare backstab to killshot or churning earth for very obvious reasons like cast time,CD and animations.
The backstab build is mostly a one shot kill every 45s on bad players.
Mug+CnD+backstab ~ 4000+6000+10000 in wvw to lvl 80 if they crit and your opponent does nothing (no blind, no dodge, no stun etc etc).
Only to bunkers, and people with fingers, the damage is significant lower, like 2000+4000+7000, or 2000+0+0.
But after the burst just press 2 for heartseeker especially if your opponent is in block or immune.
ok, I fixed it for you.
kill shot in the crowd can be quite unnoticed and usually eles using churning earth teleport on the target to be sure to hit him.
[cut]combat mode is only broken by putting distance between you and your enemy.[cut]
this is not completely true.
Combat also ends when the target is defeated.
So if this Über-thief pops out of stealth kills 2-3 opponents, finishes them before everyone can react and hit him, after the third stomp he will be out of combat and can use waypoint.
Obviously this thread is based upon ignorance of a bad player that instead of learn mechanics prefers to ask for nerf.
@Lamefox and Daendur, first of all, I am far from ignorant when it comes to the games mechanics. I and several others have witnessed downing someone by 1 keep they disappear while under conditions and re-appear in lord room of a different keep that our allies happen to be seiging. Second, I know thieves have some “teleport” skills, i.e. Shortbow 5, but, nothing that lets them completely teleport off map / screen. If the players were Rage quitting the new system would automatically kill them. However, when you have several people swarming a thief since they are the last alive, and all the sudden vanishes mid-immobilize / stealths and everyone attacking / aoeing the area of the Shadows Refuge. Not to mention I save my Knockbacks for these situations. Albeit, it doesn’t work when they are immobilized.
Teleport hacking is a MAJOR problem in this game. I have recorded several proof videos and sent to exploits@arena.net or w/e it is. Saved in my email.
I have even posted vids on here, but have been infracted for them and having them removed due to “Character Assassination”. Teleport hacks are and continue to be a real problem. If you are unaware of that, then obviously you do not pay attention.
[cut]combat mode is only broken by putting distance between you and your enemy.[cut]
this is not completely true.
Combat also ends when the target is defeated.
So if this Über-thief pops out of stealth kills 2-3 opponents, finishes them before everyone can react and hit him, after the third stomp he will be out of combat and can use waypoint.
Obviously this thread is based upon ignorance of a bad player that instead of learn mechanics prefers to ask for nerf.
you probably don’t know that you can bind a button to dodge.
pull a mob and when it’s attacking press that button.
btw they are making a videogame, they can’t consider everything in the world…
it is a great change.
My guild has ppl at different levels and someone had to repeat low level fractals to help others. Now we can do it at max level, filling the group with someone some level below.
Try to look at it in the right way. It’s not a lvl 2 running lvl 40 … it’s a lvl 38 running lvl 41 and everyone will go up.
Obviously something changed since last time we found AR.
They were a lot, yes, but not so much.
Moreover, not having the 3rd W, completely destroys game’s mechanics.
As soon as Gandara takes a camp 20 to 30 AR come to take it back, and that’s because they have nothing else to do.
So Gandara, keep calm and carry on… friday will come
edit: and he doesn’t have bad connection. if he was lagging, other invaders/players in the vid would have been lagging as well, and his response time would be so off.
I was talking about asura’s connection. Not OP’s lag.
But a laggy player moves in a different way, so it may be a hack.
it seems to be someone exploiting a bad connection, to me.
i think it is too random to be a hack, he is always jumping (more packets transmitted) he uses p/p so he doesn’t have to deal with melee range. but it doesn’t perform the classic lag-run.
quite hard to say…
i think the only needed change is the possibility to see target for guild members.
when i choose a target, only party members can see it. it would be nice if guild members could also see it. it will help when you have 1-2 ppl out of the group.
I will define thieves stealth for you OP:
Stealth is the ability that allow to an class with 10k hp and 2000 armor to win vs an shatter mesmer that do 20k damage in an single combo.
No. A stealthed player takes damage. A good mesmer can blow up a gc thief easily.
Stealth is the ability that allow to an class with 10k hp and 2000 armor to win vs an warrior that can do over 25k damage with 1 combo, while they CC you.
No. A stealthed player taked damage. A good warrior can HB a gc thief even if can’t see him.
However i do not belive A-net intended to make from stealth the most powerfull survaivability mechanism, that became in wvwvw, mostly caused by constant C&D on monsters, and on pets / low lvl players that do not know how to counter it.
Thieves learned how to use stealth … someone learned how to counter stealth, someone else didn’t and complains about it.
Shout out [ECL] Dzagonir great g v g you nearly there very well done keep it up hope we could do it again sometime in the future sry for Being late que was bad
And thanks for everyone that spent a little more time with [ YaK] and [DIus] holding AG as long as we could … Last push tonight and ad least we have a good match up …
Thanks for the nights of pain
Too bad you [YaK] could not be polite towards someone who accidentally ran into your GvG and just wanted to watch.
1v1, face to face, h&s : thief dies vs any class
thieves have to use mobility and stealth to be effective.
and for the “you can’t fight what you can’t see” part, let me say it’s not true at all: you can, you just have to know what to do.
Hi, why there is no priority for members of party/guild while using boons?
It is stupid that an AoE buff effects someone just because it is closer to the source.
If I cast swiftness I do because I want my group to have it, not 4 of us and someone else, leaving the fifth without it.
I think it should be: self -> group -> guild -> others (ordered by proximity)
What do you think ?
Theres probably going to be an internal cooldown implemented on the lifesteal proc, meaning aoe/cleave + high crit rate will no longer make you a demi god when consuming this food.
The “camp mesmer body!” is a joke, you cant break the afk timer while dead meaning you might have to camp that dude all night. Just face the fact that it’s broken and uninteresting. We should have the option to pick up enemy corpses and throw them off the side of the wall or something =P
For those unfamiliar with thieves or how people can get crazy stealth uptime inside towers and stuff. The #5 dagger off hand cloaks ya, its a little expensive except… you have a trait that returns some initiative after you use it making it not bad.
Other traits you can use to help achieve ultimate cheezness
Shadow Arts:
V Shadow Infusion : Gain 2 Initiative when using a skill that stealths you.
X Patience : Regain Initiative faster while in stealth.
Meld with Shadows : Stealth skills last one second longer.
Acrobats:
IX Quick Recovery : Gain 2 initiative every 10 seconds.
Skills:
Shadow Refuge, Infiltrators Signet, Blinding Powder.
You can actually achieve perma stealth without ALL of these, next time you and your mesmer buddy get in, have him die in a low visibility spot. You walk to a wall and CnD stealth until everyone leaves. Then go casually walk over to him while in stealth, res him while in stealth, and giggle, while you port your team back up.
They won’t find you, some abilities like the guardian aoe sword pull can kinda give ya away if they get lucky and use it near ya but overall just giggle as you watch a zerg running over you trying to find you.
Edit: also be sure to turn off your auto attack cuz that will give you the 3 second debuff.
yes, but you missed the “without exploiting walls” part….
Before complaining? It was constructive criticism about flawed mechanics, I wasn’t even talking to you, have a nice day though.
it was a constructive criticism based on nothing. On your impressions, on what you see (or see not) and not on what you tried.
I think you have no idea of how stealth really works but you call it a “flawed mechanic”.
Try to ress a defeated player, even on open field, with enemies around.
Have a nice day you too.
Meanwhile, If you have multiple dead mesmers scattered in a keep, a thief or two continuously using invisibility, high mobility going from body to body, getting updates of people around them from the dead mesmers. I’m sorry but that isn’t a nice way of enjoying your weekend. I just think this is an underlying problem. While I agree with you, a casual player or even just a not very skilled player shouldn’t be punished for bad mechanics. But that’s just my opinion.
before complaining, try to do it and see how easy it is to move inside a keep with guards and ppl looking for you.
to achieve perma stealth you have to set up a proper build with specific skills, traits and equip. You also have to put down fields to make combos.
Fields are visible = dead thief.
Stealth ress is comparable to guardians’ bubble ress and become strong when used with other players (shadow refuge + 4 ppl ressing). I often save an aoe stealth (shadow refuge or blinding powder) for a downed mate; stealthing him will prevent stomp, but not aoe dmg.
I think thieves, in large fights, have to use their stealth and mobility to ress overextended allies and to stomp “unreachable” foes. That will make the difference, not a 7k backstab…
Not angry, just disappointed with the direction in which the game is heading. You guys had it waaay too easy for quite a while now, is it wrong to expect some kind of fixes ? Can you honestly tell me how nerfing aoe`s would benefit wvw atm ? I can clearly see how nerfing thieves on the other hand would benefit it. The game was supposed to be fun, where is the fun when you get ganked by 2 thieves outside your spawnpoint without even having the chance to press one button, on a character with 25k hp and 2.8 k armor? Quite often you cant even see them until it is too late because of the horrible rendering issues. What should i do ? dodge randomly ?
I`m not wishing bad things for others, i just wish that before other classes complain they should see the state engineers and necromancers are in. They dont seem to care what people think, look at the necro forums and see when the last dev posted there. The mods lock or delete most of the negative opinions, it doenst really seem like we can speak our minds around here and yes, people are angry.
You and a lot of other ppl don’t understand that culling issue is not related to thieves but to “displaying characters” … you think you die from thieves because of culling, maybe when there is no other players in the area. lol
The real culling abuser are mesmers
Mass invisibility and mesmer’s portals are used to force the system to load a lot of people in the same time; people that are AoEing in the middle of their opponents.
Btw Anet is working on culling issue and they are making progress, so your concern about it is not justified because they don’t think it’s fine… it’s only hard to be solved.
Obvious thief troll. I hope anet “balances” your lame class into the ground. Maybe then the class will attract less bads and trolls. Some Aoe`s dont even do full damage anyways since people just dodge out of the red circle and are always limited to 5 targets. If you`re a thief and you`ve been playing wvw then you should probably be aware that you`ve been abusing what is basically a bug (culling) to kill people. How much skill or tactic does that take ?
how much anger, dear friend. Let me ask you why, if someone has an opinion different from yours, you have to attack him instead of try to discuss.
Maybe you did a wrong choice, picking up the necromancer, but wishing bad things on others is a miserable act
