Guild Wars 2

it’s the con of not having cooldowns … i don’t think a weapon swap should restore any initiative, it will be OP.

in a game where stealth duration is so short, having a movement speed reduction will make it useless.

They can nerf stealth by doubling “revealed” debuff duration and, when a player is affected by “revealed”, gains protection, regeneration and 25stacks of might.

ok i’m off for the week end … see you (maybe) in game…

Aeolus.3615:

I would drop thief damage by alot, and give more loads of invisible options as traits and skills, any player can kill target with thief w/o effort its too dammn easy(damage wise not invisibility problem).

thieves can do a good burst damage… anyhow less than warriors.

wookie.8934:

I thought thieves were a problem until I rolled a shatter cat mesmer. Now I watch them drop like flies in wvw. It’s quite satisfying.

no you can’t. Ladylad said thief is unbeatable and a thief can’t die.

lol

There are players saying they never have problems with thieves… elementalists/guardians/warriors/mesmers even engi and some necros… that couldn’t be possible if thief is so OP.
Videos are only montages of best combat actions… it’s not too hard to cut off the part in which you are getting beaten as a carpet.

Ok you reported it… let’s write it down to not be offensive nor provoking.
I don’t believe what you are saying. I think you are largely exaggerating your statements trying to make your point.
You didn’t provide any evidence.
Anyone can write anything and pretend it’s real.

Ladylad I think that it depends on how you play.
You can use almost every class, run with a zerg when you find some enemies jump in the middle hit them and flee away …
if your zerg wins you’ll get credit, if it loses you are far away and you won’t get killed.
I have almost 15k kills on my ranger and 12 deaths … (here some random numbers for you)

25 stacks of bleeding + neverending poison.. it wouldn’t take ages and you can do it immediately after cap. no need to wait 5 minutes to start engage.

I dropped stealth in pve and i’m running a condition build with magic find.
good sustained dps (less than with a proper build – MF takes a lot).
15 0 10 20 25
vigor, dodge, caltrops, poison field, and a couple of stealth just to remove conditions

ok now i get what you are doing. You should have recorded your opponents inside the tower to clarify it.
I think that it should be nice try to kill guards and lord without leaving stealth and leave it just for the final capture (the ring part).

ah ok. But the zerg inside wasn’t watching you, otherwise they would have seen field and blast and melted you with aoe.

only saw duo cap … i didn’t get it .
can you explain what you are doing? It just looks stupid to me.

Maladon.5760:

[cut] Stealth is the biggest complaint on the WvW forums, it will get some attention sooner or later.[cut]

Yes now it’s stealth. We had QQ about everything and a nerf in every patch in the first few months… now it’s a quite stable version and I hope they will not change it.

Players really need to L2P and learn to counter stealth and who says the opposite is just a bad clueless QQer.

jportell.2197:

They already have a 3 second debuff… Culling takes effect here… I think the debuff should apply whether they cause damage or not.. This would make them choose wisely before they started using stealth…

This would make stealth too easy to be countered and will force thieves into condition P/D build.

Heinel.6548:

Jinks.2057:

Heinel.6548:

Jinks.2057:

So everyone is just complaining about all thieves then.

Its either too much damage or too tanky or stealth abuses too much or resets fight at will etc etc etc

Gotta hate those 30 30 30 30 30 thieves running around

Not all. Thieves who don’t abuse stealth is not in the complaint.

That’s not true. We could go thru all the pages and pick out just as many if not more complaints about glass thieves damage.

Every aspect of the thief class has been complained about in this thread.

This thread needs to be locked.

You’re the only one who’s obsessed with responding to those posts. The title of the thread is Stealth needs to be nerfed, not burst needs to be nerfed.

Stay on topic.

To stay on topic: yes it needs a nerf and the nerf needed is “causing damage while hidden will reveal you” so no more caltrops nor poison fields from nowhere…

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

[cut]You may be able to stealth into a zerg with a thief and kill a player or two [cut]

This isn’t true. With a thief you may be able to stealth into a zerg and DOWN a player or two, typically undergeared underleveled. If you try a stealth stomp you’ll be a dead thief.

I think it is because Zaithan woke up in in 1219 AE, corrupting creatures in Orr and the first Sylvari woke up in 1302 AE

wear banners will be OP.
just make it pickable only from party members.

jewelcraft is the way. and you don’t need to hit 400 … just make some green

thief is not the only profession that can run away from the battle but it’s the only one blamed for doing that.

if it’s about die and repair cost they can put a tax on stealth …
Stealth: requires 10 coppers.

Scleameth.6809:

Maybe just a timer when the thief can activate stealth again. Perhaps not even stealth while in combat would be my 1st choice but many arguments against that I’m sure.
My issue with watching thief videos is that it’s just so easy to break out of combat and get all your cool downs back up and then go stealth again and re-engage. tralala, damage, damage, tralala, ooo close to death, stealth, tralalala, heal up, get cool downs off, tralala, kill this guy, kill that guy, stealth.
If my guardian enters combat most of the time it’s a fight to the death. If my skills are all on cool down then that’s basically it for me. I can’t run from a thief since he’s spec’d to be as fast as me for my full duration of “save yourselves” and all the while #2, #2, #2… So I have to stand there and wait to be attacked to be able to counter. Wait for my cool downs in clear sight of an approaching mob. A thief can just tralala run off when the goin get’s tough.
Vids with comments highlights that “oh I missed this skill”, or “hit the pet by accident”, or “I’m going to have to wait just a sec and then smack him with this”…. etc…
As a guardian I don’t have that advantage. If I miss one attack, it’s a fail and I have to wait for cool down in plain sight of many other attackers. I can’t afford to wait a sec, if I miss my initiating attack the whole thing fails and I’m basically just fighting for my life other than controlling the fight. Thieves, through stealth, can basically always control the fight unless they slip up bad and get hit by a decent AoE.

There are a lot of guardians that have no problems with thieves.
So if thief can do damage damage tralala stealth I guess a guardian has something else to compensate his lack of stealth.
Thief can stealth and run away ? Ok, no kill so? I have a lvl 2 necro and you will never be able to kill him because I don’t play with my necro… is necro OP because he doesn’t die ?

teg.1340:

I would trade GW2 stealth for DAOC stealth (perma stealth but only out of combat) immediately if I could.

along with that you should also give thieves a better opening chain (easier to do and with more dmg output) and the ability to 1shot low lvl ppl without leaving stealth.
That should be really funny for the receiver of PA to be dead and not even see his killer because of ONE shot.
That was really a 1 shot, uncounterable skill; not the c&d-steal-bs combo.

Stealth is strong, thieves are strong and aware of that and you should use it to make ‘em expose theirselves.
Don’t run after a thief, let him come to you…

I don’t think it is a good video, it’s just a stupid piece of action. The only purpose is to show 2 different reactions to the same input.
me —> SR = thief is still there, beat him hard
guardian —> SR = omg! what now?

Pick up one:

Root – knockdown – immobilize – knockback – stun – chill – pull
+
20 ppl doing AoE can cover a pretty large area

gg

This is just a little extract that I would like to share with you to point out that the thief is not so OP. It pays his dmg burst with low health and stealth is not an I-Win button.
You just need to know that even if you can’t see him, he’s still there.

edit: I used SR for the finisher, other professions could have used other skills (stability or a KB on the guardian…)

0 30 30 10 0 (5%precision converted to vitality)
I used to wear Valk armor + ruby orbs and everything else zerk.
Then I swapped to the configuration wrote before, I dropped 14% critical chance and gained 3k hp. Now I have almost 18k and with 25stacks 59% crit chance, that becomes 66% from behind and 100% from stealth.
I think ~60-65% crit chance is enough to grant a fair number of critical hits and I have enough HP to not get instagibbed.

dangerdoom.3862:

superbutt.6475:

This lag is a pain in the a.., every time we are more than 30 on a narrow area, skills request at least 5sec of casting.

Glad someone points this out. It is unplayable atm. I’ve never experienced this before. We all known those big fights can be a pain but not being able to cast a spell is something new.

I’ve counted up to 8 seconds not being able to cast a insta-skill. I’m pressing the button but nothing happens, I can run around, I can see people run around, I’m getting crazy hits but my skills won’t go off.

A lot of people leave wvw because of this. :/

Tip of the day:
Split your zerg, have fun with all of your skills.

There is a limit in the number of target you can hit ( 5 ) but what I think they should introduce is a limit in the number of AoE you can receive.
atm a 20ppl goup can melt down everithing in a specific area.
It’s the way some guilds play; 15 to 25 players roaming with perma speed a couple of CC and AoE like hell. If their schwartz is big enough they win, otherwise /rel and try again… I think this is a silly way.
ANet should put a limit in here. A single target should not be able to receive 10-15 aoe… 3 to 5 should be enough.

Jeknar.6184:

A guardian with rune of vampirism? Preposterous!

it’s called “Scientific method”

yesterday i found BLs almost un unplayable… only big zergs and no spare roaming groups in each borderland.

i’m wearing valk armor (beryl orb upgrades) + earrings and zerk weapons (sigil of perception + accuracy) + amulet,rings,back + maintenance oil.

zerg is the way unskilled players can get some results.
Then they call it “epic” and reach heart’s-ease.

my predictions:
almost unplayable WvW for 3 to 5 days due to lag and crashes.
complete rollback to “fix some strange behaviours affecting servers handling more than our 3 characters test crew”
no more WvW updates untill they are ready.
Obviously no Orbs back.

sorry but i miss the “solo” part.

Forzani.2584:

In WvW, who do you find easier to beat, Ranger or Warrior ?

Rangers.

tl;dr:
D/D against D/P can be hard, unless you can C&D on hidden HS landing.
btw that’s why you have a second weapon set. just swap and go ranged.

The following graph shows what I think.
Profession X can be almost every other profession. There are no real numbers involved, it is just to give you an idea of what I think is the effectiveness of a profession related to player’s skill.

Advent.6193:

Ah, the weekly “nerf” post. [cut]

Sorry it’s not weekly, it’s daily and gives OP 1 laurel.

Aberrant.6749:

With a group of 4 you should be able to quickly res up anyone they’ve downed before they can finish them off. It shouldn’t even be a worry or care. Solo Thieves are just harassment unless the opponents are very bad. In that case they could have killed you all with any class.

What I bolded is the key.

maybe engi+ranger+2low level. I’ll definetly jump in that group. 2shot the first green arrow, then kill the other one while he’s ressing his mate, stealth, rec, go for ranger while curing burning and finally the engineer.
It’s hard but doable … it depends on opponents’ skill.

That said, OP has no idea about how stealth works.

edit: any mesmer can do the same … a warrior can do it faster, a guardian can do it too…

your proposed nerf is out of the line and will destroy the class…

deviller.9135:

Stealth nerf should be: “stealth should be broken if player do any offensive ability (including basic attack, but excluding trap), miss or hit. Stealth should be broken after that offensive ability resolved (end of ability).”. This will make any player who use stealth play carefully and strategically.

I think stealth is fine as it is on block/miss/evade and so on… No damage = no broken stealth.
It should be broken when using caltrops or poison fields … Damage = broken stealth.
That I must admit is OP now … you can build up stealth and keep spamming caltrops stacking AoE beeding, definetly not fair.

when i tried it, it was a mess… it only worked if there was nothing between me and marked foe. A tree = stop. A corner = stop …
i don’t even think we can find 10,000 units of plain terrain.
It could be one of the most funny and tactical skills ever, but it has to work properly.
Moreover, since 10000 is a lot, a distance tracker should be glad.

If it really is 3600 and the tooltip says 1200 they should fix it.

They should also fix the Shadow Pursuit (second part of Shadow Trap) and let it be 10000 as the tooltip says and not stop on the first mosquito in the field.

Great thread. Made my day.

Maybe instead of 5 stacks of vulnerability, 2 second weakness and 1 second cripple they can receive a 72hours ban that can be converted to permanent if they miss again

Hermes.7014:

I have to disagree.
This has made low duration stealth abilities totally worthless. Like Blinding Powder. In 3 seconds you can’t get enough away unless you have a shadowstep utility slot, since Infiltrator’s Arrow breaks stealth as you use it.
What now? We have to throw a Shadow Refuge to effectively run away?
This isn’t balancing, this is messing things up.

infiltrator’s arrow doesn’t break stealth (nor does shadowstep) it’s only a graphical issue.

This change has nearly 0 impact in WvW, the only thing that change are dungeons where the thief is less useful now.

oZii.2864:

Xsorus.2507:

If you come across a D/D ele, switch to venoms

D/D ele’s aren’t hard to kill on a thief..

Both my Ranger and Thief mow through them rather easily.

Expert advice here if your running S/D, D/D, S/P, D/P, P/P and your a burst thief. Traits are 30/30/30/30/30 You see RTL quickly switch to quick venoms for the cooldown reduction. Also swap into the carrion gear you have in your inventory and swap your trinkets and sigils.

Switch to venoms guys to kill d/d elementalists.

this is too much work. you have to simply hit him once, than send thieve’s special DoS attack and put D/D ele’s PC in BSoD. He will be disconnected and you can loot tha bag.

Columba.9730:

The guardian can’t hit like that and be tank ish. Sorry you are wrong. Also, they can see the guardian. Huge difference.

No, that guardian was really tough. He was doing tons of damage and healing himself a lot. You are wrong. Guardian need nerf. Too many shields and absorbtions.
No class should be able to resist the impact of 20 people and do not die, and still do damage and move.
When guardian use a shield must drop his weapon for like 20 seconds and be rooted in place.

other classes have other skills to deal with aggro.
steal life food nerf + stealth nerf made thief a lot weaker in pve.
I really don’t think that was needed.