Chase that carrot. Chase it HARD! LOL
It’s not important they have an advantage, it’s important that the rewards that they earned through playing the game aren’t taken away because someone that wants to be on equal footing without playing the game feels it’s unfair.
I’d be fine with everyone being scaled up to ascended.
So your whole argument has been about splitting hairs this entire time. Why on earth didn’t you just post that at the very start, and save yourself the time and trouble of all your other pointless arguments?
I don’t think any changes should be made in WvW at all, and I dislike the reasons given to justify player’s rewards being taken away.
I argued against the justifications.
And, as I just pointed out, your arguments against the justifications did nothing to refute them. All those arguments you made were pointless. So again, why did you waste your time splitting hairs, instead of just posting the compromise you’d be OK with?
Because their shouldn’t be a compromise. There’s no problem to fix. Just because someone says there’s a problem doesn’t mean there is one.
Everyone just threw numbers out there and said “See? Massive advantage for grinders!” No evidence, no nothing, just theory.
Cue confirmation bias, straw mans, and outright ignorance of the combat system, and here we are.
Yet you’re the one arguing a clear statistical advantage isn’t really an advantage. Or in other terms, that 1=0.
Funny, eh?
You do realise we just calculated this a few posts enough to 8.6% max (we’re talking you using all buffs and criticing and all. its not 20%! feel free to point out the error in the calculations above if you feel they’re wrong.
Does that include armor?
What a lovely personal anecdote. I have many of those too. I’ve had many times where I’ve won fights with only about 10 HP remaining, sometimes even less. One of my guildies has a Thief who has stomped and escaped that stomp with a big, fat 1 displayed on his health bar. That’s even less than 5% of his total health – while wearing Soldier’s Ascended trinkets. If he had been wearing all exotics – he would have lost. Those are the fights he remembers most, the ones he brags about, and the ones he considers most important.
And if he was wearing all rares, and the other was wearing all exotic, he would have lost, and if he was wearing Masterwork, and the other was wearing Exotic he would have lost. If he was level 60 and other other was level 80 he would have lost.
So I don’t see your point.
The two points are thus.
A. All those other advantages you talk about, those are much easier to eliminate. It’s trivially easy to get to level 80 and get rare gear, and almost trivially easy to get exotic gear. Anyone can do it in a matter of days/weeks. Ascended gear is a whole other league of time investment.
B. Why add one more disparity for players to overcome in a game mode that’s supposed to be about competition? There is literally no reason to have ascended stats in WvW.
What you say is easy for you can be hard for someone else and take much more time than you. Apparently ascended is hard for you to get, but there are people where getting exotic is hard to get. What you think is hard and easy to get is no more important than what another person thinks is hard or easy to get. The time frame to get X gear is a moot point when in WvW it very rarely matters if you have ascended gear or not.
EXACTLY. So why make it worse, and put in ascended yet on top of exotic? Personally, I think they should just limit stats in any form of PvP to blue quality, or some specific stat level that all gear in PvP has. Make it about skill, and leave gear out of the equation entirely. That’s how they did it in GW1, and guess what: it worked. That said, the point was that at least the level advantage and rare/exotic gear are somewhat excusable because they don’t require insane amounts of time to accomplish.
The point of WvW is that it is not considered as PvP, it is considered as PvEvP, notice how none of the PvP daily involve WvW. The point of WvWvW is for people who want something resembling open world PvP where people are wearing their PvE gear. If you want competition you play sPvP, WvWvW isn’t really about competition between Player Vs Player, but more about competition with Server Vs Server.
And ascended doesn’t take insane amount of time. A friend of mine who got to level 80 about 6 weeks ago and plays about 15 hours per week, already has all the ascended gear accept for weapons, in which he is looking about 3 more weeks and he’ll have those finished. 2 Months is not insane amount of time
For this game, it absolutely is. This is the successor to Guild Wars. A game where you could get gear with best possible stats for the equivalent of about 5 gold in GW2. A game where gear was supposed to be a non-issue. And you know what they told us about GW2 before release? That it would be exactly the same in that regard: gear would be a non-issue; there would be no gear treadmill and there would be no gear disparity in PvP. Well, guess where we’re at now. Not at all where the game was supposed to be in regards to gear. And people are complaining about it. What a surprise!
And there is not gear disparity in PvP, cause WvWvW is considered as PvEvP, in PvP everyone has the same level of gear. Also, Anet never said it would be exactly the same as GW1 when it came to gear, people made assumptions it would or took quotes out of context to say it was, but Anet never said it would be.
No, they never said it would be exactly the same, and no one expected it to be. They very much marketed the game on the premise that there would be no gear grind to worry about, and that gear would be a non-issue. They had to, because they knew they’d lose the majority of their GW1 fanbase if they didn’t. Well guess what: they did a complete 180 on that, and now they HAVE lost the majority of their GW1 fanbase.
Gear is still a non-issue. I don’t have full exotics and I do fine. I can’t be the only one.
Your anecdotes are not evidence of anything.
Another thing I don’t get about the ascended grinders, is that ascended gear limits choice. It limits build flexibility, it limits experimentation and makes an already fairly shallow game somewhat worse. With exotics, you could have several sets (which are trivial to obtain) and swap as needed.
So now with ascended gear, rather than experimenting, having fun, and working on mastering a class, people have to grind out ascended in order to fully compete (because in our world a +1 advantage doesn’t equal 0). It just really puts a damper on the fun.
Ascended Armor when it comes, Weapons, etc, should all be available from WvW. The amount of badges it requires + gold can all be determined – but even if it is very grindy, it still should be available.
Why? Why can’t people just join, have fun, and attempt WvW objectives? Why do they have to worry about grinding out another tier of gear? Why wasn’t exotic enough?
Not to mention the fact that they (ANet) stated there would be no vertical gear treadmill, only horizontal; meaning that no matter what statwise you will always have the highest stat gear (exotics), but would have to work for better looking skins. This has yet to happen because there is really no work done to get a good skin, other than a legendary and for that you need heavy RNG not just working towards a goal. I hope anet gives up on ascended (armor especially since it has yet to be implemented) and continue to work with what they stated before release which was a big part of why I bought the game (as I’m sure it was for many others).
You fell for it too, eh?
Kind of sucks that all the grinders who like vertical progression and power creep came to this game. There are several other games out there that would meet their needs, but sadly they came here and the developers are catering to them.
I mean, who enjoys brainless champ trains and dull, endless farming? This game is becoming a glorified skinner box.
I believe Ascended gear should be removed from PvP. It creates the typical “Grind to Win” scenario that is so common in other MMO/Games.
I feel that Arena Net created an amazing PvP game with Guild Wars 1 and they should stick to how things were run. I also predict a very certain power creep for Melee classes like Warriors/Thiefs who benefit so much from weapon power as opposed to classes like Mesmers/Necromancers, this will create a distinct imbalance between these classes that will be compensated by 1) Nerfing the Warrior/Thief/Guardian/Ranger and effectively screwing players who don’t have Ascended armor on these characters; OR 2) Not nerfing them and creating a huge gap in power between “Physical DPS” classes and “Magic” users.
WvWvW players like to PvP, but any PvP’er will do everything in their power to achieve an advantage over the enemy, the important thing for most PvP players is winning (yes they have fun too but winning is the most important), pretty soon we will have fully ascended players in WvWvW which will make it unplayable for people who don’t have hundreds of hours to dedicate to a single character in order to equip them with full ascended armor, I believe the weapons cost 200g each, the trinkets/accessories using Laurels would take almost a year to get and the back piece is not even available, and that’s assuming you do your daily every single day. Fractals should not be required to play PvP competitively.
WvWvW players already have to spend ~50+g on Runes + exotics to remain competitive, I believe that’s enough as you should naturally accumulate that gold levelling your character and doing a few dungeons along the way, a lot of people will say ascended armour makes no difference but if we assume both zergs are of equal skill, the zerg that is fully ascended will always beat the non ascended zerg that has 5-10% less stats, it’s the same thing as putting a level 80 zerg vs a upleveled zerg, which zerg do you think will win? And don’t get me started on roaming/sniping groups fully ascended vs non ascended people, in the law of averages, we have to assume everyone is at the same skill level so the person who is better geared will win. Could a pro player beat a fully ascended “newb”? Of course, but pro players a very rare and they don’t make up the average WvWvW in our realm. Heck, my realm is full of PvE players (Desolation) so if anything Ascended gear is awesome as the sheer power of these people will carry me but I still believe these items should not be implemented in this game mode.
Solution: It’s simple, just scale Ascended gear to Exotic stat level upon entering a Borderland. I believe fair play should be encouraged and “grind to win/pay to win” (crafting) should not be encourage or allowed in PvP, this is not World of Warcraft and I believe the fair play/balanced gear model from Guild Wars 1 was perfect and it should be encouraged not scrapped. If I wanted to go “3 Shot noobs with overpowered gear” I’d go back to WoW and grind RBGs to 2200.
Regards,
BastienIf you lose any fight, ever, and blame ascended, YOU are terrible at this game.
Right, because when a grinder who does approx 20% damage defeats you, it means you suck. Does 20=0 now?
I do not have a problem with ascended stats in WvW.
Don’t really care to see it removed, I worked for it and would prefer to use it otherwise I wasted my time and gold and I don’t care for that.
Didn’t you read the thread? Ascended makes no difference in WvW, so sorry to say, you already wasted your time and gold.
It dosen’t matter how much you QQ over the fact Ascended gear is in the game. Its here to stay and alot of us like it and use it. Just because you refuse to do the work to get it doesn’t mean those who do shouldn’t be able to use it. You have no one to blame for yourself, and before you throw that out again, I dont’ champ farm. I play the game.
I play the game and have piles of bloodstone dust, 15 dark matter, and 30 of everything else. What magical activities are you doing to get all of the mats?
You like it huh? Of course you do, because it gives you a statistical advantage over other players. But wait, most of its ardent defenders claim it “doesn’t make a difference” in WvW and the stat gains are trivial. So which is it?
So I saw a couple of posts that basically accused me of defending Ascended items to keep my privileged advantaged status.
Well, I don’t have any ascended items. I’m pretty casual (337 play hours/423 days) and don’t even have full exotics. So that argument is pretty much DOA.
If coming out and saying that gear hasn’t really mattered at any point during the entire game’s release to the outcome of a WvW match is defending ascended, so be it.
You want a level playing field? Play sPvP. I’m done being insulted by people who can’t fathom that numbers only matter when you get hit, and that the whole point of GW2 combat is to not get hit.
Also, where’s all the evidence showing us how much of an effect the gear has in real combat? Have we all just decided that higher numbers = massive advantage without any evidence?
Eisberg and I have killed ascended weapon having opponents 1v1, but that doesn’t count apparently.
Yeah yeah, we already know you think higher statistics don’t make a difference. And you can’t dodge everything.
As for your 1v1 kills, prove it. Eisberg said he did it at level 35. Again, prove it.
Ascended weapons and soon to be armour should be left as is till you can come up with a more valid argument than its imbalanced. WvW is never balanced around the player but around the servers. Plus I have 3 ascended weapons so I know how hard they are to gain. They aren’t hard at all. I got one from a drop, and the other 2 are crafted. If you claim they are hard to gain than like I said in another post your doing it wrong and rethink how your doing it.
Enlighten everyone how they are doing it wrong when not every has the same amount of play time or interests in other aspects of the game that could yield ascended items. This argument is a lot like peeing in the when. The only outcome is that your leg or pants will get wet…
There is a reason why these items are not allowed in the formal PvP maps.
Upon release of ascended gear it didn’t matter. A ring here, earring there, wasn’t so huge of a deal. Add in a back piece and weapons, well, stats increased yet again. Come Q1 or there about you now have armor. Now how do those stats start to look?
Now let us factor in the game play triad. There is PvE, there restricted PvP in the form of s/t PvP, and lastly there is the free for all WvW. PvE it doesn’t really matter those stats because there is a group of people and one can learn the static content. There are people pugging 50 level fractals after all. There is the free for all WvW battles in which case hiding behind a zerg gear doesn’t matter. 100% agree with you or anyone in regards to that argument. However, not everyone hides behind a zerg and prefers to go alone or run in small tactical teams. Roaming to control or deny bloodlust comes to mind. New edge of madness maps could be another. Flipping supply camps or stopping supply routes or yaks.
Stats do matter over time and ascended gear isn’t easy to obtain. That is another debate which I really don’t care to do here in this thread. However, if you look at the aspect of play, and options within WvW, one can factually argue that ascended gear changes the battle. If nothing else it does give you an edge just because 1 + 1 = 2.
Isn’t math a wonderful thing?
Funny… you pretty much have to go out of your way at this point to avoid getting materials for ascended stuff.
Through “just playing” the game, I have piles and piles of bloodstone dust, 15 dark matter and 30 of the rest. Hmm….
Well firstly, at least not till the end of season 1. They said they won’t make any changes to WvW during this time. Other than that I doubt the will remove them at all…
To the point of brainless grinding, how so? I play WvW 95% time, probably have only done 2-3 things out side of WvW that gave mats for ascended items. I have 3 ascended weapons and almost enough mats for another 2 weapons (kitten youz dragonite!) Just to keep it in context, I only play about 2-3 hours a night…its not that hard to get with out grinding it…just takes longer…
Let me guess: One of those things you participated in outside of WvW was one of those 24/7 champ train blobs? Am I right? Stunning, enthralling, highly entertaining game design right there! WOW!
You guys have fun then.
I honestly don’t understand why people who want vertical progression and power creep came to Guild Wars 2 of all games. There are several other games out there that would meet your needs.
I think ANet lost a lot of their fans they gained through GW1 by making this move. I certainly won’t be playing WvW AT ALL because of ascended gear.
Did you actually enjoy WvW before? if you did, i really doubt youd stop because of ascended gear, the game mode still plays the same. And the gameplay type there isnt duplicated much. I mean, its always been unfair based on gear/time. I remember when the game started, people worked super hard for exotics.
42k karma per peice.
at 370 karma per event, and 5 min per event, thats 9 hours per piece. (didnt have all those karma items back then)tokens were pretty rare, and exotic armor costs 950 for a set, for a hint back then people spent 1-2 weeks getting 500 badges for legendaries
so you are looking at 3-4 weeks to gear from tokensdungeons, used to take about 25-45 minutes (dev said 40 min was their target for average players and 30 for good players) it started out giving less than 60, i think it was 45, and you need 1380 for a full set, thats about 30 runs at 45 tokens, and 23 runs at 60 tokens. at 40 min per run, that would be 15 hours of dungeon running.
Point is, Exotics were pretty hard to get at start too, if you look at the controlled means of getting exotics, and times to obtain them, you see it was never meant to be as easy as it is now. And people could make the same argument people make now about ascended giving an advantage.
Got it. It’s always been unfair, so let’s make it even more unfair and make people grind out BiS gear doing the most mind numbingly boring crafting tasks ever designed.
Which doesn’t matter anyway I guess because I don’t have any gold because I don’t farm or grind and I’m not about to spend real money to craft this ascended “we couldn’t provide with you real content so here’s some busywork” tier.
(edited by Dark Catalyst.1028)
When will ascended gear be removed from WvW? Because WvW really doesn’t need further imbalance. Give the real fans their game back, and let the people who enjoy brainless grinding go elsewhere. Thanks.
(edited by Dark Catalyst.1028)
“WTF happened to all the fun?”.
It’s in an orichalcum node.
Remove ascended gear. The grinders can go play somewhere else.
You guys have fun then.
I honestly don’t understand why people who want vertical progression and power creep came to Guild Wars 2 of all games. There are several other games out there that would meet your needs.
I think ANet lost a lot of their fans they gained through GW1 by making this move. I certainly won’t be playing WvW AT ALL because of ascended gear.
Ascended weapons and soon to be armour should be left as is till you can come up with a more valid argument than its imbalanced. WvW is never balanced around the player but around the servers. Plus I have 3 ascended weapons so I know how hard they are to gain. They aren’t hard at all. I got one from a drop, and the other 2 are crafted. If you claim they are hard to gain than like I said in another post your doing it wrong and rethink how your doing it.
Enlighten everyone how they are doing it wrong when not every has the same amount of play time or interests in other aspects of the game that could yield ascended items. This argument is a lot like peeing in the when. The only outcome is that your leg or pants will get wet…
There is a reason why these items are not allowed in the formal PvP maps.
Upon release of ascended gear it didn’t matter. A ring here, earring there, wasn’t so huge of a deal. Add in a back piece and weapons, well, stats increased yet again. Come Q1 or there about you now have armor. Now how do those stats start to look?
Now let us factor in the game play triad. There is PvE, there restricted PvP in the form of s/t PvP, and lastly there is the free for all WvW. PvE it doesn’t really matter those stats because there is a group of people and one can learn the static content. There are people pugging 50 level fractals after all. There is the free for all WvW battles in which case hiding behind a zerg gear doesn’t matter. 100% agree with you or anyone in regards to that argument. However, not everyone hides behind a zerg and prefers to go alone or run in small tactical teams. Roaming to control or deny bloodlust comes to mind. New edge of madness maps could be another. Flipping supply camps or stopping supply routes or yaks.
Stats do matter over time and ascended gear isn’t easy to obtain. That is another debate which I really don’t care to do here in this thread. However, if you look at the aspect of play, and options within WvW, one can factually argue that ascended gear changes the battle. If nothing else it does give you an edge just because 1 + 1 = 2.
Isn’t math a wonderful thing?
Yeah, but didn’t you read this thread? Ascended gear doesn’t matter, it makes no difference, and 1+1=1.
They want it so badly even though it makes “no difference” because WvW isn’t “balanced.” It’s hilarious.
Ok lets lower your exotics to masterworks to be on par with some other players. Cause it makes no difference and WvW isn’t balanced. It would make it more balanced and more on par with everyone. How you like invalidating your exotics to masterworks level?
I believe that gear DOES make a difference in WvW and would help to balance WvW. I don’t see the need to make it worse.
I don’t care if you scale down my gear to fine quality, as long as it happens to everyone else. But your argument really doesn’t work because exotics are trivial to get and they were supposed to be a step up from masterwork and that was it. Again, they are TRIVIAL to get. Drop $20, buy some gold, and get a full set.
Keep going. Keep going. We want a game that is fun, not “grind x”, “farm y”, “zerg z”
Too late.
Ascended weapons and soon to be armour should be left as is till you can come up with a more valid argument than its imbalanced. WvW is never balanced around the player but around the servers. Plus I have 3 ascended weapons so I know how hard they are to gain. They aren’t hard at all. I got one from a drop, and the other 2 are crafted. If you claim they are hard to gain than like I said in another post your doing it wrong and rethink how your doing it.
Enlighten everyone how they are doing it wrong when not every has the same amount of play time or interests in other aspects of the game that could yield ascended items. This argument is a lot like peeing in the when. The only outcome is that your leg or pants will get wet…
There is a reason why these items are not allowed in the formal PvP maps.
Upon release of ascended gear it didn’t matter. A ring here, earring there, wasn’t so huge of a deal. Add in a back piece and weapons, well, stats increased yet again. Come Q1 or there about you now have armor. Now how do those stats start to look?
Now let us factor in the game play triad. There is PvE, there restricted PvP in the form of s/t PvP, and lastly there is the free for all WvW. PvE it doesn’t really matter those stats because there is a group of people and one can learn the static content. There are people pugging 50 level fractals after all. There is the free for all WvW battles in which case hiding behind a zerg gear doesn’t matter. 100% agree with you or anyone in regards to that argument. However, not everyone hides behind a zerg and prefers to go alone or run in small tactical teams. Roaming to control or deny bloodlust comes to mind. New edge of madness maps could be another. Flipping supply camps or stopping supply routes or yaks.
Stats do matter over time and ascended gear isn’t easy to obtain. That is another debate which I really don’t care to do here in this thread. However, if you look at the aspect of play, and options within WvW, one can factually argue that ascended gear changes the battle. If nothing else it does give you an edge just because 1 + 1 = 2.
Isn’t math a wonderful thing?
Yeah, but didn’t you read this thread? Ascended gear doesn’t matter, it makes no difference, and 1+1=1.
They want it so badly even though it makes “no difference” because WvW isn’t “balanced.” It’s hilarious.
Ascended items have such a little effect in wvw lol, if you lose a 1v1 or whatever it’s because you messed up or you’re just bad. The chances that the few extra stats could have made a difference is really kittening low lol, be realistic here, also they’re pretty easy to get anyway, trinkets especially.
Really ?
If it doesn’t make a difference then why are people wasting their lives grinding away for it?
i can’t imagine a scenario in WvW where i would die and think “man, i would’ve won if only he didn’t have ascended armor!.”
It would be more like “man, i timed that dodge wrong” or “man, i would’ve had him if that other guy didn’t join the fight” or “man, i shouldn’t be playing my elementalist.”
i understand the concern, but at the same time, couldn’t you just say, “its not fair those other guys have exotic gear against my full set of rares! I shouldn’t be forced to get exotic gear!”
You’ll learn your lesson once you start getting smoked by people who do approx 20% more damage in full ascended sets.
Nope. Not when my level 35 character in Fine (Blue) gear has beat plenty of ascended geared people who were also trying to beat me. Also I have never been in a fight with ascended geared, or even Exotic geared people that beat me to say they “smoked” me, they tend to be really close fights still, and I always figured out what I could have done better.
Nice anecdote. Too bad it’s irrelevant though.
Of course it is, because it slaps in the face of “gear beats skill because of ascended” /rolleyes
Post a video, otherwise stop citing your personal experience.
i can’t imagine a scenario in WvW where i would die and think “man, i would’ve won if only he didn’t have ascended armor!.”
It would be more like “man, i timed that dodge wrong” or “man, i would’ve had him if that other guy didn’t join the fight” or “man, i shouldn’t be playing my elementalist.”
i understand the concern, but at the same time, couldn’t you just say, “its not fair those other guys have exotic gear against my full set of rares! I shouldn’t be forced to get exotic gear!”
You’ll learn your lesson once you start getting smoked by people who do approx 20% more damage in full ascended sets.
haha, my lesson?? that i should stop playing WvW and whine about ascended weapons more on the forums?
even if it was the case that i got smoked by someone in full ascended, how often do you get to 1v1 in WvW on an even playing field, build’s balanced against each other, to where the only deciding factor of the battle is simply he had more power/crit dmg than me?
I mean that’s possible but that is probably < 1% of the encounters i have in WvW.
Who said anything about 1v1? If you’re group meets another group that happens to have the capability to deal 20% more damage, what do you think will happen?
i can’t imagine a scenario in WvW where i would die and think “man, i would’ve won if only he didn’t have ascended armor!.”
It would be more like “man, i timed that dodge wrong” or “man, i would’ve had him if that other guy didn’t join the fight” or “man, i shouldn’t be playing my elementalist.”
i understand the concern, but at the same time, couldn’t you just say, “its not fair those other guys have exotic gear against my full set of rares! I shouldn’t be forced to get exotic gear!”
You’ll learn your lesson once you start getting smoked by people who do approx 20% more damage in full ascended sets.
Nope. Not when my level 35 character in Fine (Blue) gear has beat plenty of ascended geared people who were also trying to beat me. Also I have never been in a fight with ascended geared, or even Exotic geared people that beat me to say they “smoked” me, they tend to be really close fights still, and I always figured out what I could have done better.
Nice anecdote. Too bad it’s irrelevant though.
i can’t imagine a scenario in WvW where i would die and think “man, i would’ve won if only he didn’t have ascended armor!.”
It would be more like “man, i timed that dodge wrong” or “man, i would’ve had him if that other guy didn’t join the fight” or “man, i shouldn’t be playing my elementalist.”
i understand the concern, but at the same time, couldn’t you just say, “its not fair those other guys have exotic gear against my full set of rares! I shouldn’t be forced to get exotic gear!”
You’ll learn your lesson once you start getting smoked by people who do approx 20% more damage in full ascended sets.
…
I cannot even begin to count the times I’ve ended a fight with an abysmally low amount of health. You know how many times I ended a fight with 1 hp? 6. I can still remember that after all this time, but I also remember always have max stated gear. Going from a 28hp sword pommel to a 30hp one made that much of a difference.What’s up 1 hp (attach #1)
Since this whole thread is hasty generalizations…
How kitten hurt would the anti-ascended crowd be if they got their wish and everything was evenly set like spvp and they still sucked? I mean, right now you can use the “well he had ascended gear!” as a defense mechanism. When you still get thrown in the dumpster on an even field what will happen to your ego then?
No, I think you guys are best off not finding out that the emperor has no clothes. The reality of the situation might be too upsetting for you.
So people who promote a more balanced game over a power creep game and are WvW enthousiasts, some of them only playing WvW for a year on… well obviously suck at WvW and PvP in general, and justify their deaths on Ascended geared enemies? Are you for real. :-)
Could it be the other way around, and the power creep guys think only of their own power, forgetting the bigger picture and game-balance? Make your own conclusions.
If you’d rather have yet another advantage over your opponent before the fight even start, that’s your call. Does it make you a good PvPer? Again, people can make their own conclusions out of this one.
That was my thoughts too. People drastically over estimate themselves and under estimate their opponents.
And I gotta wonder how much these people are worried about wvw when they can easily come face to face with a level 10 up level in a full set of whites while they are decked out in exotics.
I’m sure it’s totally fair that they can insta gib that level 10 up level while they’re worrying about the slight stat advantage that ascended gives.
If we want wvw to fair and balanced (lol) a lot more needs to change than just removing ascended gear.
So, instead of making it more balanced, we should keep making it worse? This way, we will surely work towards a more balanced game (Not). This game won’t improve much if we… just make it worse. Kinda makes sense, does it.
I’m not sure if you’re aware of this but it’s not supposed to be balanced. That’s why it’s 1v1v1 and you can fight people who have 1000 hours and the best gear or a level 2 who has 30 minutes under their belt and not even a full set of white gear at the same time.
My point is no one complains about fighting the easier opponents just those that might pose a slightly bigger challenge. And that if you remove one extreme you need to remove the other as well. But yet again, no one complains that they can fight up levels who are basically free kills.
Free kills, eh? There have been several people in these ascended gear threads who make the claim that their upleveled character kills people with ascended weapons “all the time.” So which is it?
And upleveling is fine because they get to level in WvW in exchange for not having access to all of their traits.
And, I find that the short/steep power curve in WoW is actually easier than GW2’s long/low power curve. As mentioned, when a new tier drops in WoW I grind for a couple months and I’m done. The rest of the tier I can relax and play what I enjoy. With the long/slow grind of GW2 the grind is never over. That sword is always over your head—especially if you are an altoholic. One thing GW2 has taught me is that a short/steep power curve can actually be easier on you in terms of grindiness.
While this is true, the problem with the short/steep power curve is that if you put down the game for any extent of time… the chances of you catching up to the current tier of content is pretty small. You simply don’t have the gear to complete the current level of content, and by the time you are, the bar has been raised (if not abandoned entirely by a new expansion).
You wouldn’t be able to step in a Tier 13 raid (or whatever the max level is), without at least getting a good helping from 12… which requires a heady amount from 11… and so on and so on.
And even IF Ascended is completely out of your reach, it’s not such a huge increase that even IF new content was scaled to it that it would be impossible to complete with a full set of Exotics (if not rares).
Not trying to say that EITHER method of vertical progression is inherently better; but that both have their problems. I personally would rather have the problem of never quite having “BiS” rather than having entire swaths of content beyond my reach.
Wrong. There are several catch up mechanics currently in WoW which will help get you geared for the current tier of content. And the current tier has four difficulty levels, so even if you can only get into the easiest level, you still get to experience the content.
TainoFuerte.8136 & aliksyian.7642
Good stuff guys, a good laugh before going to bed, thank you very much :-).
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People in this topic saying “Ascended doesn’t change anything… but lets not remove it from WvW” are all too well aware Ascended does provide them another advantage over the casual/new players. And they want to keep this (unfair) avantage.
This is the “I win because of my gear” mentality and I don’t find it interesting for a PvP environment. Now maybe you do, and maybe you need that gear to be even slightly competitive. But it doesn’t change the facts : the gap is bigger for the new/casual player, and the pro-teams stomp even more.
As for the grind-fest part, Julie Yann.5379 summed it up very well. The dedicated WvWers, the people who play well and for whom WvW is not just another farm, the people who scout, defend, sometimes getting very little rewards for hours on end playing defense, manning trebs, etc. Yes, for those people that only got a couple hours of play per day and want to have FUN for those couple hours, well Ascended is indeed a big grind. A big grind is not an achievement, IMO it is a just a huge waste of valuable time.
You love mining stone and cutting down trees? You love your crafting? Good for you, but I know lots of people who hate it. What if you don’t like WvW much, and the ONLY way in the game to get the top gear for this game would be… hmmm… to pay 10000 badges? There would be RIVERS of tears, it would be a cataclysm, I mean we’re talking Fukushima all over again.
The top gear in a PvP environment should be attainable through PvP, period. I don’t even understand how there can be arguing on this. Mining, chopping wood, crafting and any other (garbage, IMO, I am not judging you, but for me and many others, it is garbage) grind doesn’t qualify as ‘PvP’. It doesn’t even qualify as a “fun” activity for many people. In the end, a lumberjack should not be better geared than a warlord.
- – -
The WvW enthousiasts you read in this topic want a more balanced field to play in WvW, less useless grind and more time to play the game they love, as well as an Alt-Friendly / New-Player Friendlly environment.
The power-creep people you read in this topic want a less balanced field to play in, where they have a bigger advantage over new/casual players in WvW, looking for easier kills/victories, with a bigger gap between them and new/casual players, making them special snowflakes.
Now I just wanted to make it clear. You can’t be in both camps. I know where I stand.
Exactly this.
Ascended supporters should just admit that they want that leg up against newer, inexperienced players as well as against people whose activity of choice doesn’t provided the mats necessary to craft ascended items. Stop saying it doesn’t matter.
If it didn’t matter, you wouldn’t participate in the horrible and expensive mind numbing grind (don’t say you’re doing it for the skins because they are ghastly), and you wouldn’t be here arguing with people who want a more even playing field.
Prepare to be disappointed. I came here from WoW as well, and went right back because WoW is less grindy.
I know next to nothing about the game, just wondering what the class balance is like in pvp. Im mostly just looking for a class that isnt team oriented and can handle itself in 1v1+. Any thing really stick out as being overpowered currently or can I just play and see what I like and not be punished with it being too weak like most mmo’s?
Can’t go wrong with warriors.
If you have zerker exotics and I have ascended non-zerker, you out damage me.
That right there should illustrate how small this gap we’re talking about is.
If I have ascended zerker and you have exotic zerker, I will outdamage you.
So simple is it to illustrate that there is a gap.What is your point in comparing apple and oranges?
Arguing at this point is futile, as the grinders and vertical progression people won. It’s their game now.
Agreed. I wanted this to be the ONE mmo that I played where I play for cosmetics and just to have fun. ONE game is all I asked for, just one. When I first heard of GW2 I was elated. Now, its currently shelved along with WoW, Rift, etc. Just another VP game. Nothing unique about it.
With that said, I don’t mind verticle progression in MMOs. I just wanted one game where I didnt have to worry about it. Just one game. Since Arenanet could not pull this off and succumbed to VP and that crowd, I’ll look to better VP games on the horizon, such as Wildstar. They’ll do it much better and how it SHOULD be done. By completing enormous feats for great gear, instead of amassing enormous amounts of wealth and spending dozens or hundreds of hours grinding.
I went back to WoW. Of course, that’s the game I left when I started GW2, but at least I know exactly what I’m getting back into.
If I’m going to have to work for gear, I’d rather do dungeons, dailies and PvP then run mindless champ trains and mess around with time gated crafting. More fun that way.
Yes, explain to me how in a game where virtually every interaction with your opponent is reliant on number calculations, extra numbers don’t matter.
Explain to me how you reached these conclusions. How do you know gear makes no difference in this situation but not these I’ve selected? Because I’m sure I’ve been in zerg battles where I’ve not gotten downed and become a rally bot by about 100 HP and that these battles are, coincidentally, the biggest most brutal ones that we really want to win for Stonemist or a Keep. Surely it makes no difference if an army of As men fights an army of newbies in rares of exotics right?
I’m genuinely interested in which statistical technique you used to determine the percentage of “non-trivial” yet, at the same time, at the same time are “negligible”. Because, I don’t know, it’s “hard to detect” but somehow you can tell me that it doesn’t matter except it does so that’s why it should stay the way it is.
I just laugh now when they claim the differences are trivial but when anyone brings up the topic of capping WvW at exotic level gear they scream bloody murder. I guess they get mad when the possibility of the gear they worked “so hard” for gets invalidated. You know, that supposedly trivial gear with negligible impact.
Incidentally, these are probably the same people who scream at dungeon pugs for not being in full zerker because it’s suboptimal.
If you have zerker exotics and I have ascended non-zerker, you out damage me.
That right there should illustrate how small this gap we’re talking about is.
If I have ascended zerker and you have exotic zerker, I will outdamage you.
So simple is it to illustrate that there is a gap.What is your point in comparing apple and oranges?
Arguing at this point is futile, as the grinders and vertical progression people won. It’s their game now.
kitten it.
It looks like the grinders and the people who “need something to strive for” in a game , won. Grats guys, it’s all yours. You know how I’ll deal with ascended gear in game? By never logging into the game again.
I will NOT run mindless content over and over for these mats. I will NOT join the 24/7 Queensdale and Frostgorge champ trains. And I will NOT spend hundreds of goal on ONE profession just to level it and time gate myself into oblivion. This is ridiculous!
Well kitten , since you don’t want to do that stuff, that means you have the entirety of the game to play unobstructed.
Manifesto: 1
Crying about BiS: 0I really don’t know what to say to someone who claims that clear, mathematically proven statistical advantages from ascended gear “don’t really matter” in WvW and fights against other players. And that these advantages don’t compound with the advantages other players geared in ascended bring.
Mathematically proven for zerker gear, in perfect world conditions: 1v1, no movement, no dodging, no buffs, no lag, no weapon skills, no healing, no conditions.
Yes, that’s really what you’re saying, because that’s all the math tells us.
Don’t you think that the analysis is willfully ignoring 95% of the combat mechanics to suit the argument?
It’s still a +1 in the advantage category. Which is why you see people grinding their little hearts out and spending ridiculous amounts of money in order to craft these monstrosities. If people didn’t think it would give them an edge, they wouldn’t waste their time.
Imagine you play as well as you do now and you know you can’t avoid or run away from everything. You remain the same but everything else hits 10% harder. This doesn’t affect your gameplay?
Anyway, this shouldn’t even be an issue because I was promised easy access to max stat gear.
Ascended gear is there to stay, I’ve had time to make 4 ascended weapons and I didn’t farm much for it besides doing a few daily boss. Craft it or not it’s your choice. Mostly everyone have trinkets for their main character by now.
Removing something from the game once 75% of the people have it is beyond ridiculous. If you really think that a 6% increase in stats is what is making you die all the time then you should just go craft your own.
Not looking forward to hearing you cry again all over the forum when ascended armors are released.
Don’t worry. The “crying” will lessen over time as the people who really loved the old Guild Wars philosophy leave the game. I sure as hell will never log in again because of this ascended garbage.
kitten it.
It looks like the grinders and the people who “need something to strive for” in a game , won. Grats guys, it’s all yours. You know how I’ll deal with ascended gear in game? By never logging into the game again.
I will NOT run mindless content over and over for these mats. I will NOT join the 24/7 Queensdale and Frostgorge champ trains. And I will NOT spend hundreds of goal on ONE profession just to level it and time gate myself into oblivion. This is ridiculous!
Well kitten , since you don’t want to do that stuff, that means you have the entirety of the game to play unobstructed.
Manifesto: 1
Crying about BiS: 0
I really don’t know what to say to someone who claims that clear, mathematically proven statistical advantages from ascended gear “don’t really matter” in WvW and fights against other players. And that these advantages don’t compound with the advantages other players geared in ascended bring.
A fair compromise to keeping this garbage ascended tier in WvW would be to allow people to change the stats on ascended when needed and then further differentiate legendary weapons. That way, it doesn’t invalidate anyone’s “hard work”. And let’s face it. When I say “hard work” I mean their capacity to endure the most eye bleedingly boring psuedo-content this game has to offer, for hours on end.
Who cares if another game had grind? It’s the grind in this game that was being discussed.
For me, a long grind kills the game. I like playing different classes and different builds on those classes. Grindy BIS gear makes it so I don’t even want to get started trying something else out. There’s no way I’m going to get yet another set of ascended if I do like it. So why bother.
(Oh and I really appreciate the Karma nerf as well).
Don’t you read these forums? You don’t need ascended gear to enjoy any aspect of this game! Who cares if you’re getting stomped by people in full ascended which gives them a significant statistical advantage over you? LOL, this game isn’t about grinding or having he best gear! It’s about having fun!
LOL, you’re just stuck in the mindset ingrained in you by those other MMOs. Ascended gear doesn’t matter! LOL
Yep. Funny how half the forums say your a terrible gamer if you run with 1 piece of knights gear (it’s sub-optimal you know) and the other half insist that ascended gear doesn’t matter.
Heh, I haven’t even thought of that.
Not being geared optimally for PvE is made out to be a high crime because you’re not maximizing your damage while not being geared optimally for WvW is ok. Apparently because WvW, as I was informed earlier, isn’t really balanced around player statistics. Meaning it’s not really balanced around a certain subset of players doing significantly more damage. Bizarre!
So your saying disable all the gear I use (which includes 6 ascended trinkets and 4 ascended weapons). Because what, crafting is too complicated for you? What the hell? Get a grip on yourself.
This is a game and you play it how it’s supposed to be played.
What exactly do you find so offensive about evening out the playing field?
As for crafting that garbage? I have better things to do than brainlessly running champ trains for the required mats. Stunning, engaging gameplay right there LOL!
Ascended gear in WvW is irrelevant. You will not notice the difference, especially when you consider the other bigger variables, such as orb buff, party buffs and blob size
If it’s irrelevant then what’s wrong with making it really irrelevant and disallowing it in WvW?
Who cares if another game had grind? It’s the grind in this game that was being discussed.
For me, a long grind kills the game. I like playing different classes and different builds on those classes. Grindy BIS gear makes it so I don’t even want to get started trying something else out. There’s no way I’m going to get yet another set of ascended if I do like it. So why bother.
(Oh and I really appreciate the Karma nerf as well).
Don’t you read these forums? You don’t need ascended gear to enjoy any aspect of this game! Who cares if you’re getting stomped by people in full ascended which gives them a significant statistical advantage over you? LOL, this game isn’t about grinding or having the best gear! It’s about having fun!
LOL, you’re just stuck in the mindset ingrained in you by those other MMOs. Ascended gear doesn’t matter! LOL
(edited by Dark Catalyst.1028)
I find it hilarious, really, that people are claiming ascended gear doesn’t matter and won’t really make an impact in WvW. What about the words “statistical advantage” do you people not understand?
If you want to be a valuable WvW team player, you’re going to do everything you can to help your team. And that includes grinding out full ascended.
I hate checking these forums because it’s all about people BLAH BLAH BLAHing.
Let me say, I’ve played since launch, and loved every single day of it.
I don’t really have ANY problems with Guild Wars 2.
I love roaming.
I love WvW
I love PvE
I love that Staff runs with Zergs.
I love Zergs.
I love the Commanders
I love Guardian of Rall
I love Brutus
I love Esamo
I love JameszayPeople in this game are amazing, it should be their day jobs, they really keep the game alive. Sure skill lag, wvw ques get annoying, but usually I have never waited over an hour for a que, In the mean time, I dye myself pink or orange, fight off some monsters , kill some bosses, or use the LFG to find a group.
Gold is easy to get, new content all the time, and I’m glad an MMO I chose to invest in has turned out to be an amazing game, with PEOPLE actually playing, and it seems like every time I log on, more people have decided to buy and join in on the game. Anet works there butts off to keep this game happy for thousands of people, you can go from a zerg of 100 in WvW to a zerg of 100 in PvE at 5pm, or 5am, its 24/7 ALIVE!
If you don’t like Zergs, then start a Havok group and destroy stuff, if your not happy, command yourself, lead yourself, start your own group, your own guild!
and if you PvE, use Gw2Stuff.com or in game LFG, find the Blue Commander tag and zerg along!! or spend hours looking at skins you can work for.
I love Guild Wars 2.
Thank you.
See you in game.
Wait until you have to grind out ascended weapons and armor for your WvW activities once you become tired of getting smoked by people in a full set. Then the “fun” will really begin!
I hope you have enough gold and are content sticking with a single build!
Wait, what? Why would they release a manifesto for public consumption that is not crystal clear and requires “interpretation?”
What was stated was the selling point for the entire game for me.
According to some people here, it was easy to understand everything that was being talked about in the Manifesto. And also according to them, everyone followed GW2 like a piranha prior to release and knew everything and everything about the game.
Amusing right?
Oh it sure is. People need to realize that a lot of people that bought the game were new to the Guild Wars franchise. I sure was. I only learned about in August 2012 through another MMO forum, saw the manifesto and thought to myself: “Cool. This seems like a game I would really enjoy!”
I took a break last November due to IRL issues, came back around around 6 weeks ago, and I feel like I’m a sucker who fell for a bait-and-switch.
And which part of the game exactly that made you feel this way? I really cannot see anything that would make me feel like I’m a sucker for playing GW2. I have gripes, but none that would have me declare such deep disdain for it with the pretext that is the manifesto. Grind you say? There’s grind in almost every RPG out there. And this one has by far the least feel of grind.
I do know that people will retort by saying “do you even have any idea how much mats would be required to craft ascended/legs, etc?”. And I will say this, you don’t need those gear to do PvE, dungeons, WvW.. You can participate in them with an adequate understanding of your class/build with a mix of rares and masterworks. It feels grindy because you’re always in a state of utter desire for the best stuff the game has to offer.
Sure, no doubt there is a slight edge in ascended equipment, but that there is end game content man. If all you’re focused about is gear, you’re missing out on the real meat of this game, and that is the helpful and very obliging game community.
I feel like a sucker because I bought into their statements about top tier gear being easily accessible and all of the horizontal progression nonsense.
Yeah, I can do WvW in exotics. I can also do it in fine gear. Would I want to? No, because fighting other players should be about skill and class knowledge, and not who had more time to grind out ascended. Of course you’ll say that ascended gear only offers a minor stat increase (untrue because weapons give you 6-10% more damage depending on spec). But okay, let’s just assume it’s a “minor stat increase”. If it’s so minor that it seemingly doesn’t matter, why not cap WvW gear at the exotic level?
Wait, what? Why would they release a manifesto for public consumption that is not crystal clear and requires “interpretation?”
What was stated was the selling point for the entire game for me.
According to some people here, it was easy to understand everything that was being talked about in the Manifesto. And also according to them, everyone followed GW2 like a piranha prior to release and knew everything and everything about the game.
Amusing right?
Oh it sure is. People need to realize that a lot of people that bought the game were new to the Guild Wars franchise. I sure was. I only learned about in August 2012 through another MMO forum, saw the manifesto and thought to myself: “Cool. This seems like a game I would really enjoy!”
I took a break last November due to IRL issues, came back around around 6 weeks ago, and I feel like I’m a sucker who fell for a bait-and-switch.
Wait, what? Why would they release a manifesto for public consumption that is not crystal clear and requires “interpretation?”
What was stated was the selling point for the entire game for me.
Your best bet is to give this game more time if you are thinking about coming back. Currently the only thing going for this game is WvW (and those who enjoy sPVP). Sure they release content every two weeks but I don’t care about living story – it’s boring to me. I’m sure if I sat down and looked it over it wouldn’t be so bad.
Problem with the Living Story is if you come back, you can’t enjoy what already came. Also the server performance in WvW is really, really bad. I don’t know the future of this game, but from what I see it doesn’t look good. Unless this company is able to pull a trick out of their hats and really drill down to fixing issues, I don’t see this game getting better.
GW2 is not a bad game, but the development, bug fixes and updates to the Fractals (and other areas) leaves a lot to be said.
Honestly, after seeing what kind of grind the Living Story really is, I have absolutely no desire to log on to experience it. I missed Halloween last year and will most likely miss it this year.
As others have said, it really depends upon what kind of game you want to play.
For me, the game is about logging in and having fun. I only do the grindy stuff when I want to, I never feel like I have to do them (dailies, monthlies, achievements, etc). Everything is optional, loot is nice but not necessary, leveling is easy.
If you realize that everything is optional, you’ll have a blast when you stop chasing the carrots around. I find it interesting that so many people complained about wanting those carrots when the game launched, and now that they have the optional carrots they asked for, they complain that they feel “forced” to do things, when it’s really all in their own heads.
So…which kind of player are you?
Until he goes into WvW and starts getting smoked by people with ascended weapons (and soon, ascended armor) and he tries to do a dungeon through LFG and gets harassed because he’s not in ascended. Then he’ll realize he’s going to need to grind or GTFO.