Guild Wars 2

Odeezee.7362:

Dirame.8521:

Linnael.1069:

Dirame.8521:

Tim.6450:

First plague form of bleed and stacks 2~4 bleeds permanent for a total of 40~80 seconds, even with the division through the xtra health you get a nice 2500 damage at least.

Plague: This skill is now considered a corruption skill and applies 1 stack of bleeding for 2 seconds to you every second it is active.

2 seconds of bleed. 1 Stack.

Rather than make ridiculous assumptions someone was kind enough to math it out in another thread.

You will now be nuking yourself for 9k to 14k damage over the course of every plague.

Yup. 2 seconds. 1 stack.

Thats 120 damage (slightly more or slightly less depending on your condi dmg) stretched out over 20s that can be nullified by an Ele standing next to you in Water Attunement or just someone giving you regeneration.

HAHA, dude stop. please gain some perspective. so basically you are saying that it’s okay for Necros own skills to kitten them over as long as other players can help them not kitten themselves over? wow….this is why Necros are kittened; myopic reasoning.

Never said anything about it being okay. Just giving a probable solution to the problem. For me the first thing that comes to my mind when something is released isn’t always “BAD DESIGN URRRGH!” It’s first, how do I fix the problem I’m having, and if there are no tools to fix the problem, THEN and ONLY THEN is it bad design but hey, might be myopic reasoning. Really don’t see it that way.

That being said, we’ll see if they listen to you guys or not. I, personally, am okay with the way things are. Unpopular as my thoughts may be.

Linnael.1069:

Dirame.8521:

Tim.6450:

First plague form of bleed and stacks 2~4 bleeds permanent for a total of 40~80 seconds, even with the division through the xtra health you get a nice 2500 damage at least.

Plague: This skill is now considered a corruption skill and applies 1 stack of bleeding for 2 seconds to you every second it is active.

2 seconds of bleed. 1 Stack.

Rather than make ridiculous assumptions someone was kind enough to math it out in another thread.

You will now be nuking yourself for 9k to 14k damage over the course of every plague.

Yup. 2 seconds. 1 stack.

Thats 120 damage (slightly more or slightly less depending on your condi dmg) stretched out over 20s that can be nullified by an Ele standing next to you in Water Attunement or just someone giving you regeneration.

You guys can jump on my twitch to chat with me about Necros. I’m streaming some really bad Necro gameplay right now. http://www.twitch.tv/ceimash

Lily.1935:

Dirame.8521:

Lily.1935:

Your build suggestions were extremely bad. You never run Spiteful Spirit. You just don’t. Run Signet of Suffering on a condi mancer now because that’s going to be your absolute best option.

Well… you kinda just made my point for me. We don’t REALLY need PoC now, do we?

Lily.1935:

Running Master of corruption is basically asking your foe to kill you faster with no pay off. Don’t run a corruption build you’ll die. Oh and you won’t be able to apply as many conditions as you seem to think. With the changes to barbed precision you actually lose a huge chunk of condition damage. Your best bet with a condition build is going to be signets. You’re pigeonholed into a signet build which really SUCKS!

Yea…. I don’t see that.

No I didn’t. You need to land your signets to get them to trigger and if you’re on your butt the entire time it doesn’t matter. Also information is one of the key ways to win a match. Just by having signets you’re potentially giving your foe 90% of your build’s information before you even engage. This gives them near perfect information on weather or not they want to engage with you. If they’re worth their salt and engage you you’re screwed. If they tease you for a bit and leave or just leave you don’t gain nearly as much information as they do and all your cards are on the table before the encounter ever happens.

The victor is most often the one with the most information. And you’ll be giving away allot of your information for free with potentially no upside.

Plague Sending: When you have 3 or more conditions on you your next critical hit casts Plague Signet on your target. This trait benefits from the recharge bonus of Signets of Suffering.

Odeezee.7362:

Dirame.8521:

My question to you is, why are they not viable in PvP and WvW? What exactly makes them unviable to you?

in PvP they only bring damage and very limited soft CC some of which is being gged with next week’s patch. due to Shoutbow being meta and instant press and forget condi clear, condi Necros are not viable. MM Necros though while being cheese are also not viable in Ranked play. Power Necros as well are not viable in high ranked play unless they are baby-sat and even then they are a liability due to their inability to handle focus fire due to limited evades, no blocks, kittenty access to stab, etc

This might change with the new traits in Blood magic if people aren’t stuck trying to make their old builds work.

Fact is, people need to start thinking like the Warriors and Guardians. Warriors haven’t used their Strenght line in ages, Guardians don’t even touch Zeal, why are we so adamant about using Spite? Because of some procs?
I mean just look at the current Mediguard. If you wanted to deal damage, those traits are in no way the traits you should take but they took them and they are viable in the meta somehow after years of people saying Hammer isn’t viable, Mediguard isn’t viable etc etc.

Odeezee.7362:

as for WvW, they are only viable in zergs, roaming is so much harder as a Necro due to limited in and out of combat mobility and with the nerfing of soft cc on leaps, professions losing to you will just disengage, reset and come back and kill you while you are looking at your cooldown timers waiting so you can actually fight back.

This is true. I guess Reaper might remedy that somewhat.

Tim.6450:

First plague form of bleed and stacks 2~4 bleeds permanent for a total of 40~80 seconds, even with the division through the xtra health you get a nice 2500 damage at least.

Plague: This skill is now considered a corruption skill and applies 1 stack of bleeding for 2 seconds to you every second it is active.

2 seconds of bleed. 1 Stack.

Tim.6450:

Second 6 condis mean nothing for a lot of builds or they just dodge the cheesy setup.

I know you’re trying to make a point but yea, you dodge my endurance check. All I need to do now is cripple or chill you and then get close to you and I can still apply all those condis. There’s more than one way to skin a cat.

Tim.6450:

Third consume condition not only you got a 10 second vulnerability , you got a cooldown increase of 5 seconds on you and transferring them means you have to waste a transfer for one condition.

5s increase with a trait that drops the skill to a 20s cooldown. I say it’s a good trade-off but that may just be me.

Tim.6450:

Fourth they added negative effects on balanced skills just to fit them with the theme that’s just forcing people to trait.

I personally don’t have a problem with that unless the traits you need are out of reach and they aren’t.

Tim.6450:

Fifth, nobody felt the corrupt boon poison because we barely had no sustain and our healing skill cleansed the poison. Also corrosive poison cloud has little use in any game mode.

And here I thought was that we endured it because we could just transfer the condis to someone… my bad.

Tim.6450:

Last but not least we are the only class that have such down side for using skills and they aren’t even remotely OP.

Because we are NECROS. That’s what being a Necro is about! Slitting your wrists to make the world bleed!

Lily.1935:

Your build suggestions were extremely bad. You never run Spiteful Spirit. You just don’t. Run Signet of Suffering on a condi mancer now because that’s going to be your absolute best option.

Well… you kinda just made my point for me. We don’t REALLY need PoC now, do we?

Lily.1935:

Running Master of corruption is basically asking your foe to kill you faster with no pay off. Don’t run a corruption build you’ll die. Oh and you won’t be able to apply as many conditions as you seem to think. With the changes to barbed precision you actually lose a huge chunk of condition damage. Your best bet with a condition build is going to be signets. You’re pigeonholed into a signet build which really SUCKS!

Yea…. I don’t see that.

Based on the fact that people keep telling I’m wrong, I decided to make a video explaining the reasons why I think the Necro is fine and it actually gained the most from the Revamp.

Let me know what you think.

My question to you is, why are they not viable in PvP and WvW? What exactly makes them unviable to you?

Sigmoid.7082:

At least Curses should be a Condition (or Hybrid) only Specialisation since Powermancers have Spite&Reaper

No line should be anything for anyone. It should just provide options to augment your build regardless of what build you are running. If power wants curses they should have options, if condi wants reaper or spite they should have options. Which they do. They changed this and removed stats from trait lines specifically for this reason so all builds can have options in all lines, which with the changes they now do.

If only all the options were actually worth taking in some cases (not talking just about the Necro when I say this).

Ocosh.5843:

Dirame.8521:

Now I don’t know about you but that sounds to me like Necros have no issue at all.

If you aren’t joking, you ought to read some more of the comments, then.

First, as has been said over and over, the fact that a Necromancer can transfer the Vulnerability (plus undisclosed second condition from trait) does not mean that it is good design that it must try to do so. No other profession has a heal ability that requires you to use a secondary ability afterward in order to survive. This is a bad way to be unique.

So you want the Necro to be like every other class? You don’t want to do cool things with the abilities you’ve been given? You want to be bland like the Engie and easy like the Guardian? If that’s the kind of game you want, I personally do not want any part of it.

You’ve really go to look at what you can do with the stuff we’ve got;
For instance, combining Consume with Master of Corruptions, Unholy Martyr and Deathly Perception. Some of you guys think we don’t have trait synergy, you’re so wrong.

Ocosh.5843:

Second, 10% extra damage for 4 seconds (plus condition duration if you have any) is likely death. If a team fails to interrupt your heal, they will know to focus you immediately afterward. 4 seconds is more than enough time for two burst characters to kill you. This means that you must take Plague Signet just to be sure that you can get rid of the Vuln while in a stun chain. Even then, Necromancers deal with focus poorly.

You don’t have to take Plague signet. You’ve got Staff, off-hand Dagger, traits that remove conditions overtime in deathshroud, traits that transfer a condition on crit, runes that transfer a condition on crit. Are you really going complain about 4s of Vuln when you can remove it in less than a second?

Ocosh.5843:

Third, the basic heal had its cd increased by 20% and had a penalty added. This was the profession’s core (best) heal and it was made worse. Even untraited, it is still better than the alternatives, which heal for roughly the same amount (or less) but do not do anything else for the Necromancer. If one takes the trait to reduce the cd (to 20% less than its current cd) then one must a) accept another condition on top of the Vulnerability, and b) forego selecting one of two traits critical to Condition Necromancers. This makes it very bad for Condition Necromancers.

The positioning of the other traits needs to be evaluated yes but the function of the heal does not. The heal itself works fine and the CD was increased because of the new trait that affects it.

Ocosh.5843:

Fourth, condition transfer only works if there is a target. After winning a fight, there is often no one available. Currently, Consume allows one to get out of combat that much more quickly so as to be able to rotate to someplace it is needed. The change will make this no longer the case.

If it only lasts for 4s, it shouldn’t be a problem.

Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365:

•Takedown Round: Striking a foe above 50% health places a delayed explosive at their location. This trait has a 10 second internal cooldown.

not below 50%, if its AOE it can be good in zerg fights

It CAN be good, but they’ve replaced a perfectly viable build for a trait that is only supplementary to a larger build.

DEATHsCLAW.1978:

3. “Furious Demise” , Minor2 in the Curses Specialisation. 5s of Fury doesnt serve any Condition build. Curses is now a condition-only specialisation since power has now 4 way better options so no power build will play it.

Are you sure you’ve read the traits in curses properly? And I guess maybe you only play Carrion Amulet maybe? But see, there are those of us who play Rabid or even Carrion and still want that fury so that we can proc things like;

Sigil of Torment
Plague Sending
Weakening Shroud
Sigil of Blood
Sigil of Rage
Sigil of Generosity
Sigil of Strenght
Sigil of Nullification
Sigil of Earth

But hey, maybe it’s just me.

DEATHsCLAW.1978:

5 healing while in Shroud: one of the main reasons why Consume Conditions is our only available heal is the fact that Signet of Vampirism and Well of Blood dont benefit us while being in Shroud. Not even Regeneration we applied to ourselver (Mark of Blood) works. it was said that all siphoning will work now but that isnt enough.. every other class benefits from running around with an ele or engineer BUT not the necro because when he needs the heal he is unaffected bc he is im Shroud. EVERY OTHER CLASS CAN BE HEALED DURING THEIR INVULERABILITY!!! think of that..

From personal experience, I’ve seen the power of Unholy Sanctuary and, you wouldn’t believe how effective it can be ON ITS OWN. Throw in the ability to life steal while in DS and yea…… don’t knock it till you’ve tried it.

The rest of your suggestions are valid though. 3 of 5 aint bad.

Gryph.8237:

RoRo.8270:

Dirame.8521:

Necro wins in my opinion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lthqzE369Ok

I think necro belongs in a different category than the 2 you have

Flat out does not know kitten about necros. Will totally never read crap from this guy again.

I’m sorry that I can see the potential in the crazy amount of builds that the Necro can have. 15 builds and counting.

Given, they may need a few tweaks here and there, but they are in a far better position than Engies, build variety wise, in my opinion.

witcher.3197:

Dirame.8521:

Siva Mira.3546:

GH isn’t Heart of the Mist so it is neither Conquest nor Stronghold. As you can already see in the video or heard or read from somewhere, GH is for PvE character.

The Arena is for WvWers and PvPers who want to train or just come up with new styles of play since you can put traps and other elements into the arena.

As the GH is basically a PvE zone, chances are the arena will require lvl 80 and PvE gear. So it’s not really for PvP players unless it is instanced within the instance.

Why would the arena require level 80 when it’s within the Guild Hall and even if it did require level 80, it could very much be an instanced part of the Guild Hall.

Nonetheless though, who cares. Personally, I’m looking forward to seeing what I can do with it.

Bhawb.7408:

We got amazing trait synergy too… as long as you don’t play condi.

EVEN IF you play condi.

I mean guys, seriously, Plague Sending exists right? I’m not dreaming it up am I? You’re complaining about consume conditions when, if you really wanted to, you could have 4 ways to transfer condis to your enemy, 1 way to consume those conditions, and another way to convert those conditions into boons.

Now I don’t know about you but that sounds to me like Necros have no issue at all.

-Casually sips tea-

All I know is, I can spite without using signet of spite.

meow one twenty.4376:

I could go on and on about how the June 23rd update is screwing us over, but I want to bring up a slightly different topic.

Obviously our position in sPvP is lackluster, and our WvW and PvE presence will be nearly useless, but there’s a small change that can be implemented to PvP to help a tiny bit. Reverting our starting Life Force can be a little push to help a lot in some cases. Honestly, it should be an obvious Quality of Life update to give us some starting Life Force, but in the case they don’t want us to immediately use our Shroud skills at the beginning of the match I have thematic a solution:

What’s more Necro than reviving yourself after a death? Not much. That’s why I think adding a baseline Life Force on Death ability should be implemented. This solves a couple problems on two different levels of play. In the sPvP side of things, it prevents us from being useless after a Death; if a good Thief ganks you after a spawn you have a small amount of Life Force (I’m thinking 20-30%) to work with that you might not be able to gain otherwise. On a completely different side, it would help new people gain Life Force while they figure out how Life Force gains work. It can be confusing to new people who don’t know what skills do what, and keep them from thinking the ability is useless. If a Quality of Life update isn’t our way, at least give us a Quality of Death update.

Counterarguments:
“Warriors don’t get adrenaline after dying” – and Necros don’t get Life Force for every type of attack.
“You shouldn’t be rewarded for dying” – WE ARE NECROS, DEAD THINGS ARE OUR THING.

Anyway,
This is my first post in this forum, so hello Necro community.

Hehehehehehehe, you’re funny.

Probably the most unpopular opinion here but, I think the ICD is fine. We’ve got more application options now.

They removed Always Prepared for Take-down Round…………………………….. ………………………………………………………
……………………………………

………………………………………….

…………………………….
…… I don’t even.

Just to give you guys some context;

Take-down Round: Striking a foe above 50% health drops a delayed explosive at their location. 10s ICD

Always Prepared: Drop Oil Slicks and Med packs when downed. Downed Damage is increased

The value of AP comes with Elixir R, you can place Elixir R before you go down and get a safe rez on yourself because you just knocked the person trying to stomp you, down. And the value of Takedown Round, is another proc on the list of procs we can proc. Seriously, I play a build built around procs and I already have 7 procs that can be procced in that build. If I wanted, this would be the 8th proc in the list of prockity procs.

I’m not happy. This literally removes a good build from the list of builds and replacing it with a none-entity that could easily be done without.

Siva Mira.3546:

GH isn’t Heart of the Mist so it is neither Conquest nor Stronghold. As you can already see in the video or heard or read from somewhere, GH is for PvE character.

The Arena is for WvWers and PvPers who want to train or just come up with new styles of play since you can put traps and other elements into the arena.

Necro wins in my opinion.

I feel that the nerf to boons and speed buffs affecting movement skills is warranted but the change to conditions affecting movement skills is not.

With how capable a lot classes are at leaping away and disengaging being able to slow their leap or whatever movement skill they have was one of the ways we used to ensure the kill. Now that this is removed, those classes will escape all the more easily.

Exedore.6320:

Ventari Revenant won’t be anything other than a delusion for people who want an MMO trinity healer (it won’t be). The strength of bunker guard has always been the boon support and condi clear. Revenant can’t lay a finger on that.

Sure they can. Combine Ventari with Mallyx, Mallyx pulls in condis from allies, Ventari removes them. I believe there’s a trait for removing condis when you swap legends as well so…. yea.

But that being said, AoE Healing Signet is nothing to scuff at when it comes to Guardian (I’m talking Absolute Precision + Battle Presence).

People will try to run their normal Cele but things WILL change. No doubt about that.

Hey guys, played some Necro in Stronghold recently and had a blast. I figured Ele and Necro would be a great combo for defence and I wasn’t wrong. Necro and Ele can be incredible at wiping out groups of bombers and other NPCs whilst warding off players at the same time.

I look forward to playing more Necro when the trait changes come. I feel like they’ll definitely be playing an important role in Stronghold when the time comes.

itzjeff.7305:

Since warriors have many ways to gain stability, and fear it’s our only disengaging source, i’m having a hard time against jugg warriors, they lock me down and tear me down in a few seconds, any advices or strategies ?

Okay, here’s what I do to deal with all transforms, this includes Lich Form, Rampage as One, Plague Form etc.

First, you must have Corrupt Boon. If you don’t have corrupt boon or the well that converts boons to condis then I’m sorry, you dead.

STEP 1: Time your corrupt boon for when the stability they have resets. (Doing this allows you to have enough time to chain all your boon conversions and fears together so that they are locked down.)

STEP 2: Use corrupt Boon

STEP 3: If Corrupt boon is successful, immediately jump into DS and use Doom (fear). (If you have Path of Corruption as one of your traits, using Dark Path here will convert the next Stab boon that appears, giving you more fear uptime.)

STEP 4: If you’re fast enough you can also chain it into Reaper’s Mark Staff #5. This has pretty much wasted a bunch of their time in whatever form they are in.

STEP 5: Combo Staff 3 and 4 to apply weakness to the target so that their damage won’t be so great for a short while.

Step 6: Jump into DS and stay there till the timer on their Transform expires.

If you’ve got Path of Corruption and Warhorn, you can chain Dark Path with Warhorn #4 for a 2sec Daze or 3s daze if you’re using Banshee’s Wail.

Chaining all of the above together can be 8s or more of downtime for the form depending on your spec.

infantrydiv.1620:

Dirame.8521:

infantrydiv.1620:

What do you guys think Arenanet’s goals for PvP actually are?

We’ve seen a lot more tournaments happen starting in 2014-2015, but we’ve also seen the removal of features like Solo Queue and the leaderboard.

To me, it feels like the community organization side of things is going well. That side is presumably handled by Grouch (Josh Davis) and that’s one part of why we have weekly ESL tournaments and tournaments like ToL and WTS.

On the flip side, it feels like the infrastructure developers for the PvP side of the game couldn’t give a rat’s kitten about creating proper systems for a competitive community – things like MMR/skill based leaderboards, fair matchmaking systems, and competitive, exclusive rewards for performing well (Llamas are the biggest joke I’ve seen in a game tbh). The leaderboard has actually gotten way worse, competitive solo players are quitting the game, and the tournament scene is stagnant with the same players competing week after week.

What do you guys think?

I think there’s an expansion coming and you should all wait for it. If you’re here long enough you’ll figure out that they don’t release anything new till they’ve got a full package. Therefore, the only time you’ll be seeing anything new is closer to the expansion, especially for PvP.

Obviously they release things without having a full package, e.g., the broken leaderboard they made months ago and still haven’t fixed.

Yea, about that; Guild Leaderboards in the upcoming expansion. The Leaderboards you see now is just a test to get the algorithm right and now, they are doing a really good job considering how my match-ups have improved over past few months.

But you know, you can always continue screaming bloody murder.

TheFamster.7806:

I think its the best if we all move on. Look at Blu, former gw2 caster. Right now he was hired to cast FPS games on twitch for 40,000 people, and getting really good reviews.
Basically moving on from GW2 Esports did way better for him than anything. I’m gonna start suggesting all casters to move on from GW2 because it hurts me to see them get exploited with false dream so much.

You know, some people actually do things because they want to and not because they want to make money from it.

aspirine.6852:

You’re not a Nigerian Prince are you? =) There seem to be a lot of them if I believe my emails.

That’s for me to know and for you to find out. :P

infantrydiv.1620:

What do you guys think Arenanet’s goals for PvP actually are?

We’ve seen a lot more tournaments happen starting in 2014-2015, but we’ve also seen the removal of features like Solo Queue and the leaderboard.

To me, it feels like the community organization side of things is going well. That side is presumably handled by Grouch (Josh Davis) and that’s one part of why we have weekly ESL tournaments and tournaments like ToL and WTS.

On the flip side, it feels like the infrastructure developers for the PvP side of the game couldn’t give a rat’s kitten about creating proper systems for a competitive community – things like MMR/skill based leaderboards, fair matchmaking systems, and competitive, exclusive rewards for performing well (Llamas are the biggest joke I’ve seen in a game tbh). The leaderboard has actually gotten way worse, competitive solo players are quitting the game, and the tournament scene is stagnant with the same players competing week after week.

What do you guys think?

I think there’s an expansion coming and you should all wait for it. If you’re here long enough you’ll figure out that they don’t release anything new till they’ve got a full package. Therefore, the only time you’ll be seeing anything new is closer to the expansion, especially for PvP.

Hey guys!

I can stream now! YAAAAAY! I’m live on twitch [http://www.twitch.tv/ceimash] so come say Hi and watch me play my Mad Mines Build in PvP, ask questions, request that I stop sucking and have a ton of fun!

I’ll be doing more streaming more often now so don’t forget to follow the channel if you enjoy the stream.

Update: stream down

Ravezaar.4951:

plz stop calling them “my build” like you were the first to ever come up with a certain Build.

Lol I’m sorry to offend your sensibilities but it’s “my build” because I put my own spin on it. And even if someone made a similar build before I did, as long as I don’t know about it I can still call it “my version” of the build.

Nay of the Ether.8913:

Dirame.8521:

13 builds and counting for this class and they all include the Reaper line.

^ This right here is the glaringly main problem. It is a specilization, not a core mechanic, yet it has already made the very core of an entire class obsolete.

Wow, just wow, over-extrapolation much? Just because I have 13 builds for the Reaper line doesn’t mean that the rest of the profession is obsolete jeez.

I could show you a few new buildzz from the traditional Necro that you haven’t seen before but the bulk of the traditional Necro builds are builds you have seen, just remodeled to fit the new era.
Fact is, Reaper Shroud is melee, and Deathshroud is ranged. Some people will prefer one to the other in certain builds.

There’s a build for applying a lot of condis in a short amount of time on the Reaper, that build was born from my Enter the Necro build. There’s an Auto-Reaper, that builds was born from my Condimancer, there’s a Cleave Reaper, that build was born from my backscratcher Necro and on and on like that.

Reapers DO NOT make Trad.Necro obsolete in the slightest. Stop being overdramatic.

Black Box.9312:

The bow looks neat. I found it funny that the only trap he used in the warrior duel was the elite trap, and how incredibly ineffective it ended up being.

Overall, still not impressed. I’m really bummed that we won’t be able to just take the bow and leave the elite spec in the dust, because I have no interest in the traps or traits.

Ineffective? He used it at several good moments that saved him from getting pummeled. Don’t let your judgement be clouded by the rest of the video being unimpressive.

I know we all wanted to see something that we couldn’t possibly come up with but I think that’s really up to us find out when the expansion launches.

I think the PvP portion was alright. He’s shown us that traps activate pretty much instantly if you Tele-drop them.

He’s also shown that the cooldowns of the virtues will be shorter for Dragonhunters and range spammer Guardians are probably going to be a nuisance.

Nike.2631:

Black Box.9312:

I agree, OP. The DH traitline has almost zero synergy with the current guardian traits and skills. It feels like it’s catered to longbow campers and does not add anything to existing builds.

Almost like its a separate profession with its own icon and everything!

A separate profession that requires the old one to work? Very separate indeed.

Khaleesi.

Manimarco Devil.1790:

Everyone in this forum needs to just stop being shocked and awed by fancy effects and actually look at what the skills do. If you are impressed by just looking like a knock off dervish then by all means go play necro but so far what guardians got is what we needed and that is all that should matter. This is not a ****-measuring contest.

I’m not shocked by effects. I’m rolling on hard facts. Can you make me 13 builds with the Dragonhunter that aren’t just rehashes of the same build? Because I definitely can’t. But I can give you 13 interesting Reaper Builds right now that work entirely differently and that’s without the Blood magic line being done.

Thaddeus.4891:

Dirame.8521:

Thaddeus.4891:

6) So mostly gear. That’s my point, you gonna need sigil and runes to be able to use that trait efficiently. That’s bad design.

Hold up mate, you clearly acknowledged my version of Piercing light and I mentioned my version of Hunter’s Fortification. Which clearly shows Trait synergy is there but then I also mentioned if you wish to ignore trait synergy, you can use runes and sigils and yet you call it bad design? Come on now, if you’re going to criticize, do it properly.

The rest of the stuff you said, I can’t really argue with because it’s your opinion. No point talking that round a circle.

If your version of Piercing Light is an adept, weakened prey a master and Hunter’s Fortification is a grandmaster then yes.

That’s why my original point was that it seem your version of PL and WP are both adept, and it would be better if you buff one of those two and put it as a master.

In that case yea, they are intended to be ordered that way. WP might need something else but I think if it applies to multiple targets and has no CD, it would be fine in master tier.

Spirit Weapon DH: http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgIBlAO4Brg~
Uses LB/Sc-Focus or LB/Hammer; http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQBVyCkigWOEXhwPEA-TpQSgAA7PAWGAA

Jaxom.7310:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/this-week-on-the-ready-up-livestream-wvw-automatic-upgrades-and-dragonhunter-pvp-demo/

“…the first look at how the dragonhunter fares in PvP. This is a new segment that we’ll run on each Ready Up, and we’ll use builds that you, the community, have theorycrafted!”

wiat a min… r u tellin mi dat devs have been to these threads…

That’s hilarious.

Thaddeus.4891:

6) So mostly gear. That’s my point, you gonna need sigil and runes to be able to use that trait efficiently. That’s bad design.

Hold up mate, you clearly acknowledged my version of Piercing light and I mentioned my version of Hunter’s Fortification. Which clearly shows Trait synergy is there but then I also mentioned if you wish to ignore trait synergy, you can use runes and sigils and yet you call it bad design? Come on now, if you’re going to criticize, do it properly.

The rest of the stuff you said, I can’t really argue with because it’s your opinion. No point talking that round a circle.

rapthorne.7345:

To me, Reaper looks bloody fantastic.

But that’s all it does. It looks cool. But when you look at the numbers, and what the skills actually do, it does nothing for the necromancer in general (a class that’s been left in the dust for a long time in terms of what it needs to be on par with the other classes). All of the core issues with the class are still glaringly present.

Chronomancer got a skill to make them key to party content, as well as a 25% speed boost in their kit (something requested for a long, long time), dragonhunter (crappy name aside) gets powerful long ranged attacks, something they were sorely lacking.
Reaper? All reaper gets is what we’ve always had. damage (though admittedly a decent cleave weapon at last will be nice). Necro still has no decent party utility and will still be an outlier of the metagame. On top of that the greatsword skills look so sluggish that to be viable in pvp as a reaper would require almost 100% shroud uptime (chill doesn’t mean jack with the amount of condi cleanse available).

I’m still holding out hope for the mentioned blood magic trait line rework, but don’t be blinded by aesthetics, people. Look at the numbers and what the specialisations actually bring to the table

note, this is a repost of a thread that got locked by arguing in the main HoT forum. I figure conversation will be far more constructive in the necro subsection, so yeah

I think you’re talking without actually looking at the options the Reaper will open up. Ignoring the Greatsword, the Reaper Shroud alone can get crazy powerful when specced right. 13 builds and counting for this class and they all include the Reaper line.

Knighthonor.4061:

Little confused about this mechanic since it not really explained what exactly it is. What does Tethers do exactly?

Binding Blade.

Obtena.7952:

quaniesan.8497:

Obtena.7952:

Um, why would we need MORE support for melee in the DH line? We already have more than we need of that.

By the same token, why did necros and mesmer got sync for existing options when they already have more than that, and why couldn’t we? “we already have more than we need” you said ? you forget that by taking the DH lines, we only have 2 lines left for the “more than we need of that” you mentioned about. Sure, we got good amount in the existing lines, but we don’t get to pick most of them because one line is already for the DH.

The elite spec did different things for those professions, that’s why. I can’t see a reason to push for more melee/support options considering we have many and they are very good. If anything, I would like to see some more ranged support in the established lines so if you want ranged weapon, DH is not your meta.

Why does “add more melee options” have to mean that all the traits in the DH line are exclusive to melee? The traits could easily be “flex traits” that fit various playstyles but serve certain playstyles more than others, just like the other two professions have gotten!

I mean seriously, I have only created 4 builds with the DH whilst on the Reaper I have 13. The options are just far greater in that new mechanic because of the way the traits can blend into many playstyles. The traits for the DH line do not do that very well.

I agree and in the other DH trait discussion thread, I suggested a few changes to the Dragonhunter line that I think would address that issue quite a bit.

DRAGONHUNTER:
Piercing Light:
Cause 3 stacks of Bleeding to targets when you reach the burning threshold.
Threshold: 3 stacks of burning

Trapped (Replaces Soaring devastation. Soaring Devastation will be merged with Strengthened Virtues below.)
Deal 10% more damage to Stunned, Knocked down or Immobilized foes. Immobilized foes cannot evade and deal 15% less damage.

Weakened Prey
Apply weakness to targets when you reach the bleeding threshold.
Threshold: 3 stacks of Bleed
Weakness for 7s

Strengthened Virtues (This should be moved to GM tier replacing Heavy Light and Heavy Light should be merged with Dulled Senses in the master tier. This also removes Soaring Devastation as I don’t think it’s a very good trait on its own.)
Shield of Courage lasts longer and has an increased radius.
Wings of Resolve immobilize foes at your starting location and heals allies at your landing location.
Spear of Justice knocks down all foes it hits

Hunter Determination
Your attacks that are blinded, blocked or evaded, grant you a stacking buff.
Your next attack deals 10% more damage. Stacks up to 5 times. This effect ends after 10s or when you land an attack. Attackers outside the threshold take 10% more damage. Gain stability for every enemy hit by True Shot.
Threshold: 600

Hunters Fortification (The current hunter’s fortification should be change to this)
When you lay down a Ward, you also lay down a trap. Traps recharge 20% faster and apply bleeds.
Trap: Test of Faith (Wards include Hammer 5, Staff 5, Longbow 5)
Trap Cooldown: 45

Replace Pure of Sight minor trait with;
Winged Defender
Activating Wings of Resolve grants you Aegis.

merge Pure of Sight with Hunter’s Determination.

The only problem is, we’re not sure how anet wants to go about tackling that problem. If they indeed recognize it.

Thaddeus.4891:

Dirame.8521:

Which ones would those be?

Keep in mind that I’m going to keep editting that post to either add more or just make some traits more interesting.

- Zealous Scepter : There is no way to make keep this trait offensive while competing with Fiery Wrath. It need to become defensive or support or change place so it doesn’t compete with Fiery Wrath. Otherwise, Fiery Wrath will alway be better in an offensive role.

You’re really underestimating the power of utilitarian CC.

Thaddeus.4891:

- Wrathful Spirit + Shattered Aegis : It will improve this trait, but which build will use that? It will be a bunker that would use a lot of Aegis. Either in WvW or sPvP. Trait that give aegis are found in Valor and Honor. Would you use a Valor/Honor/Zeal Bunker in sPvP? It will take mediation or shout? See, that particular trait isn’t the problem. Trait that improve aegis are all over the place and don’t work well together to form a cohesive build. You can do whatever you want with those trait, it won’t change a thing.

The trait is more a damage trait than a bunker trait kittentered Aegis apparently deals quite a bit of damage now. So bunkers will actually find it less useful since it deals very little damage in that spec vs a dps spec.

Thaddeus.4891:

- Zealous Sprint : Who care about the running speed while out of combat? It’s nice when you run around the map or do map completion, but otherwise? The the in-combat speed that count, to get from point to point right after a combat in dungeon or spvp or to keep up with your target in pvp. Healing at the start of a fight his situational at best.

In combat you can teleport. Out of combat speed is where Guardians don’t excel. Running from point to point in SPvP IS out of combat travel time so that trait would kick in and if you’re jumping into a fight to help a friend who is low or you managed to disengage and re-engage, you can definitely use that heal. Situational as it may be.

Thaddeus.4891:

- Healer’s Retribution would be great on a bunker in spvp or in WvW Zerg for a tanky guys with retaliation. But nobody is using Radiance with this kind of build. It need to be in a better place like Honor. Buffing it won’t change anything on its own.

- Smiter’s Boon don’t need to be changed. It will be a super good trait for a medi guardian and don’t really have any competition in adept valor anyway. It’s perfect like it is now.

Merging both traits just makes sense based on what has already been merged before. The current spread feels like they were running out of ideas.

Thaddeus.4891:

- Strength of the Altruistic : Self might is good for solo fight, either if you want a killer build (Medi guardian) or a PvE solo build. And valor is a good trait line for both these kind of build. But if you need ally to self might, that’s just useless. Group might for group fight, self might for solo fight.

The trait synergizes perfectly with Altruistic Healing. And in a group fight, boosting yourself whilst boosting others is a totally viable tactic. Altruistic healing counts yourself as an ally so my train of thought was that this would do the same thing. Giving yourself boons will give yourself might as well.

Thaddeus.4891:

- Weakened Prey : Not enough source of bleed on the guardian. It would need to be in master so you can take both that trait and Piercing Light. But then Weakened Prey would need to be better if it’s a master trait. Or you can keep that trait as Adept and put Piercing Lights as a master. Then Piercing Lights should be better, like bleed on crits and from traps. Something like that.

There’s more than one way to apply 3 stacks of bleed, if you have my version of Hunter’s Fortification, Sigil of Geomancy, Sigil of Earth. And yea it could do with a little something extra but I don’t know what yet so I left it as is.

Thaddeus.4891:

I just pointed out the 2 that were outrageous. For the rest I didn’t saw big bad mistake that would break something. That doesn’t mean that I think these are good changes. Sorry

Fair enough.

Thaddeus.4891:

Some I totally agree, other I didn’t care or they would not really improve anything. Improving a bad trait doesn’t mean that it will have a use in any popular build.

Which ones would those be?

Keep in mind that I’m going to keep editting that post to either add more or just make some traits more interesting.

Thaddeus.4891:

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Personally I’d love to see them rework it so that it counted as a true block (block everything for say 2 seconds & interact with block traits) , then the lower damage & being rooted in place would be worth it

Or imagine if they reworked it so that it blocked a single attack then teleported you to the attacker for a multi hit counter attack.

I don’t know about the first one. It look a lot like Sword #2 for Mesmer. Maybe block everything in front of you. This will give a defensive flavor to it.

Dirame.8521:

Blinding Light
Blind also dazes and confuses enemies. 5s CD
3 Stacks of confusion for 5s
Daze 3/4s

OP Much. A GS + Sw/Focus medi guardian would become a Lockdown guardian. The only limitation here is the 5s. Leap of Faith, Flashing Blade, Ray of Judgment, F1, Renewed Focus and another F1. The internal cooldown need to be between 10 and 20sec to be balanced.

Dirame.8521:

Perfect Inscriptions:
Signets have 100% improved passive effects. 100% improved effectiveness is not at all bad since its a GM trait. And it is “Perfect Inscriptions” not “Slightly Improved Inscriptions”.

360 Power from signet of Bane or -20% incoming damage are a bit too much. The problem with Perfect Inscription is not the trait, but the signet themselves. Some are nice (passive or active), but really the vast majority of the signet for the guardian are useless. The idea behind them are ok, but just doesn’t fit with any build. That’s why the trait seem bad, but that’s just not true. They need to fix the signets themselves not try to overpower the trait to balance them.

You only had problems with 2 out of 17 suggestions? I guess I did pretty well!

I like some of your ideas. My main problem with the traits for the Guardian is the fact that all the builds that can be made for them after the trait changes are the same ones that were made before. Maybe made a bit tougher or with more traits but, still essentially the same build.

There a few things I’m aiming for with the Guardian with regards to my trait suggestions. First is fixing what I think is the reason everyone is running Hammer (everyone runs hammer because of the CC on it), second is to add more ways to play all the weapons

For instance:
ZEAL
Zealous Scepter:
Gain Might when Virtue of Justice Passive effect triggers whilst wielding a scepter. Smite also knocks down targets for 2s when activated. (probably should be moved to Master Tier with this addition and Binding Jeopardy moved to adept)

Wrathful Spirit
This should be merged with Shatter Aegis. Keep trait in adept. A new trait should be created;

Zealous Sprint (adept/Master level trait)
You move 25% faster when out of combat. Your next attack when entering combat heals allies in the area.

or

Blinding Light (Grandmaster Tier trait)
Blind also dazes and confuses enemies. 5s CD
3 Stacks of confusion for 5s
Daze 3/4s

RADIANCE:
Merge Smiter’s Boon from Valor with Healer’s Retribution.

Healer’s Retribution;
If you have a condition when you use your heal skill activate Smite Condition. Gain Retaliation when you heal

Perfect Inscriptions:
Signets have 100% improved passive effects. 100% improved effectiveness is not at all bad since its a GM trait. And it is “Perfect Inscriptions” not “Slightly Improved Inscriptions”.

VALOR:
Strength of the Altruistic replaces Smiter’s Boon
Applying Boons to allies grants you might. Gain 1 stack of might per ally up to the threshold. 20s CD)
Threshold: 5 Stacks 13s duration

HONOR:
Protector’s Impact:
When you block an attack, your next attack does 10% more damage. Create a Symbol when you take falling damage. Take 50% less falling damage

VIRTUES:
Virtuous Hammer
Hammer has a 33% to slow enemies it hits. Zealot’s embrace grants protection to allies near your target. Hammer abilities recharge faster.

DRAGONHUNTER:
Piercing Light: (Adept Trait)
Cause 3 stacks of Bleeding to targets when you reach the burning threshold.
Threshold: 3 stacks of burning

Trapped (Replaces Soaring Fortification. Soaring Fortification will be merged with Strengthened Virtues below.)
Deal 10% more damage to Stunned, Knocked down or Immobilized foes. Immobilized foes cannot evade and deal 15% less damage.

Weakened Prey(Master tier trait replacing Bulwark)
Apply weakness to targets when you reach the bleeding threshold.
Threshold: 3 stacks of Bleed
Weakness for 7s

Strengthened Virtues (This should be moved to GM tier replacing Heavy Light and Heavy Light should be merged with Dulled Senses in the master tier. This also removes Soaring Devastation and Bulwark as I don’t think they are very good traits on its own.)
Shield of Courage lasts longer and has an increased radius.
Wings of Resolve immobilize foes at your starting location and heals allies at your landing location.
Spear of Justice knocks down all foes it hits

Hunter Determination
Your attacks that are blinded, blocked or evaded, grant you a stacking buff.
Your next attack deals 10% more damage. Stacks up to 5 times. This effect ends after 10s or when you land an attack. Attackers outside the threshold take 10% more damage. Gain stability for every enemy hit by True Shot.
Threshold: 600

Hunters Fortification (The current hunter’s fortification should be change to this)
When you lay down a Ward, you also lay down a trap. Traps recharge 20% faster and apply bleeds.
Trap: Test of Faith (Wards include Hammer 5, Staff 5, Longbow 5)
Trap Cooldown: 45

EDIT:
Replace Pure of Sight minor trait with;
Winged Defender
Activating Wings of Resolve grants you Aegis.

merge Pure of Sight with Hunter’s Determination.

I really and truly believe the above traits would be FLIPPING AMAZING and would do wonders in changing the meta from all hammers to a large mix of weapons.

The Demonic Spirit.3157:

Renewing Blast ( Life Blast heals allies that it passes through , this will apply to Life Rend/slash/reap according to wiki > This skill inherits traits from Life Blast. )

Renewing Blast isn’t in the new trait system.

Minion masters are going to be extremely fun to fight as a shout-mancer or Cleave-Mancer. Hehehe.