Guild Wars 2

samulihei.1952:

Dirame.8521:

samulihei.1952:

apharma.3741:

morrolan.9608:

Also the whole thing about the queue was that the long downtime in legendary queues leads to people leaving his stream.

Also the numbers watching GW2 are decreasing anyway, last weeks pro league matches didn’t get far above 1500 viewers.

To be fair I generally only skim the video the day after. It’s not really that interesting anymore as some match ups are almost decided before they log in.

Couple that with there being the same 4 classes on all teams almost (props to oRNG last week for being different) and the only difference generally being mesmer or druid…yeah, boring.

This. The way Anet has been handling the balance of this game is hideous. In a game where you have 9 different classes and still see only 5 played (the same in all teams) week after week is just disgusting. Their whole philosophy of no trinity everyone is viable is just not cutting it. I just don’t understand how come ppl who made a great pvp in GW1 can make such a horribly job in GW2.

Great PvP in GW1? Dude this is what you call Rose-tinted glasses. Go back and read the old posts on GW1guru and see the constant threads about OP things and over-nerfing. And the same builds being played week in and week out with the occassional “WTH was that?!” moment. It was rare that you’d see crazy builds and if you did, it’s because different game modes facilitated the crazy build ideas.

And in reply to Helseth….. what the heck are you going to stream instead that gets you the same amount of views and growth? Unless you’re thinking of getting good at Overwatch, I’m not sure you can go anywhere else. But maybe I’m just underestimating you.

Actually yes, the pvp in GW1 was far far better than what it is GW2. It is not the part of overnerfing I’m sad about. It’s the time frame they do it (or don’t do). Overnerfing is actually needed to shift the meta but you need to do it conjunction of (over)buffing other areas that weren’t in the meta. I just think their philosophy of 3-4 patches a year is too slow. With more rapid changes (every 2 months maybe) you keep the interest up by constantly changing things forcing ppl to adapt.

And for the love of god, split pve and pvp (and wvw) skills already!

If it isn’t you, it’s going to be someone else complaining. GW1 was FAR from perfect. The only reason why it can be considered better than GW2 is due to sheer variety of modes. Balance-wise, it was worse than GW2 because of the sheer amount of possibility but then again, that’s what made it fun. If your argument is, GW1 was more fun than GW2, then that’s something we can definitely agree on. If you’re gonna say balance was better in GW1, then you must have forgotten what GW1 went through.

The balance cadence right now is perfect. The only problem is, the new specializations in HoT didn’t offer much in the way of “variety of builds” which GW1 had in spades and no amount of updates will fix. So your need for more updates, I think, stems from the need to see more build variation akin to that of GW1. Build variation that shifts the meta back and forth. The other reason why there was so much build variation in GW1 is because of the different game modes, if Anet pushed Stronghold as a tournament, it may generate new builds that make the game less boring.

But that’s just my two cents anyway. At this point I’ve just gotten tired of hearing the same arguments for 4 years from the community.

samulihei.1952:

apharma.3741:

morrolan.9608:

Also the whole thing about the queue was that the long downtime in legendary queues leads to people leaving his stream.

Also the numbers watching GW2 are decreasing anyway, last weeks pro league matches didn’t get far above 1500 viewers.

To be fair I generally only skim the video the day after. It’s not really that interesting anymore as some match ups are almost decided before they log in.

Couple that with there being the same 4 classes on all teams almost (props to oRNG last week for being different) and the only difference generally being mesmer or druid…yeah, boring.

This. The way Anet has been handling the balance of this game is hideous. In a game where you have 9 different classes and still see only 5 played (the same in all teams) week after week is just disgusting. Their whole philosophy of no trinity everyone is viable is just not cutting it. I just don’t understand how come ppl who made a great pvp in GW1 can make such a horribly job in GW2.

Great PvP in GW1? Dude this is what you call Rose-tinted glasses. Go back and read the old posts on GW1guru and see the constant threads about OP things and over-nerfing. And the same builds being played week in and week out with the occassional “WTH was that?!” moment. It was rare that you’d see crazy builds and if you did, it’s because different game modes facilitated the crazy build ideas.

And in reply to Helseth….. what the heck are you going to stream instead that gets you the same amount of views and growth? Unless you’re thinking of getting good at Overwatch, I’m not sure you can go anywhere else. But maybe I’m just underestimating you.

high socks.7628:

Much like Call of Duty, and the hundreds of other games that offer DLC’s, console games separate players who have paid for the DLC from accessing new maps, new gear, etc.

Now GW2 needs to either:
1. Disable the Heart of Thorns special builds from PvP
or
2. Separate players who have paid for Heart of Thorns and people who have not.

Preferably, PvP adjusts all the armor and weapons so nobody has advantages, GW2 needs to block these special builds, why?
Because it’s simply UNFAIR.

Ok I know what you’re thinking, yeah this kid is complaining so what we’ve been hearing this for months, just get better…

Doesn’t it bother anyone that you have to PAY for be better?
1. It’s discouraging playing PvP with the Heart of Thorns build.
2. It makes me feel like I’m not valued as a player.
3. I feel like it ruins the overall competitive spirit of the game.

Thoughts?

- You’re wrong because I bought Heart of Thorns but I found that using base Necro is better than using Reaper in the current meta.

- You’re wrong because I bought Heart of Thorns but the only characters that it makes remotely better are Engies, Guardian, Mesmers and Rangers. Admittedly that’s like half the base professions in the game but those characters could easily do without the Specialization. I know because I play condi engie and don’t use the Scrapper.

- You’re wrong because there are some of us that are willing to meet the challenge. And we have met it with flying colours….. in some cases

TIPS FOR FIGHTING CONDI MESMERS:
- Turn off your auto-attack; This will hurt your dps because most of you are not used to pressing your auto-attack button but trust me, this will increase your survivability

- Use Projectile Deflection; This may be surprising to you but a lot of the damage that Mesmers do (if they’re a good player) doesn’t come from just their conditions, it comes from the bloody Phantasm that harvests the conditions on you for big damage. Projectile deflection will not only reduce the Mesmer’s sustained damage, it would kill most of the big attacks that the Staff Phantasm spits out.

- Be Patient. Don’t be a fool.

- Build your character in such a way that their own attacks is what kills them; How do you do this on every character? I don’t know that. But I’ve managed to do it on 2 characters and the 3rd character I’ve just made myself extremely tough to kill.

There are 3 builds I use to either beat or stall against Mesmers. The builds that can beat Condi Mesmers:

- A Condi Necro specifically designed to counter mesmers. You might say, “Aren’t necros natural counters already?” And you would be wrong at least from what I’ve tried anyway. The only build that has been able to kill them is something entirely new that I tried out.

- Condi Guard. You will laugh at this but I’ve had more success here than you would think. It also helps that I’m playing a slightly different condi guard than the usual fireball spammer. This build can kill them IF and ONLY IF you block at the right time(s).

- Stun/Daze Spam Engie. This is a crazy build that doesn’t do anything apart from annoy the heck out of your enemies. This is because all you’re doing and all you’re built to do is interrupt their actions. Perfect for stalling. Not so perfect for killing.

I would give you the builds now but I have a youtube channel so I’d rather put them up first as videos. So…… WATCH THIS SPACE OR SUBSCRIBE TO MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL #Shamelessplug

Hahaha this is funny.

maciora.9542:

Dirame.8521:

lol, it says the BASE healing. Did you actually log in to check how much the healing is now?

No I did not And it does not matter – still a nerf to my main surv build…

Trust me, you’ll be fine.

lol, it says the BASE healing. Did you actually log in to check how much the healing is now?

Evan Lesh.3295:

What about Ranked do you enjoy more than Unranked during off-season?

Is it that you prefer climbing a ladder all the time? Or are there other particular reasons.

The fact that the matchmaking is more precise. Right now I feel like it’s all over the place or maybe it’s just me.

Flumek.9043:

Dirame.8521:

Thinking about it, in this meta of condi cleanse (mesmers and Eles) having 1 condition that can chain into 2 other condition is still quite cool. Remember, Fear applies chill which then applies Vuln and Bleed. That’s 4 condis for the price of 1 skill. CRAZY!

I just wish I could use base Necro to make it worthwhile.

Do you work at teleshop ?
Youre selling a " 1x bleed stack grandmaster" as " CRAZY"

Maybe I am actually but I think the difference between me and some people in this thread is, I’m a lot more willing to look for benefits first. If you take one trait on it’s own, and don’t look at how it combines with the rest of the traits, how can you tell if that trait is good or bad?

The Necro can stack tons of bleeds without thinking about it, that’s all well and good but being able to COVER IMPORTANT CONDITIONS with 1 stack of bleed? That’s extremely valuable. Especially when the skill you’re using applies 2 other conditions on use.

Thinking about it, in this meta of condi cleanse (mesmers and Eles) having 1 condition that can chain into 2 other condition is still quite cool. Remember, Fear applies chill which then applies Vuln and Bleed. That’s 4 condis for the price of 1 skill. CRAZY!

I just wish I could use base Necro to make it worthwhile.

insanemaniac.2456:

somehow im not surprised that an engineer main liked the old skyhammer more

Funnily enough, during the time of Skyhammer I played builds that didn’t focus on knocking people about.

Galandil.9641:

Dirame.8521:

- Skyhammer shooting once rather than multiple times makes it feel unimportant in the grand scheme.

If you think that a FULL decap every 3 minutes isn’t important, we must playing two different games.

I didn’t realize this at first. Now that I realize it and I’ve taken it into account, it definitely sounds interesting but it doesn’t really add much because of how infrequent it is.

I guess I’m comparing the current Skyhammer to the old one when it comes to the fun factor so I guess, take that for what you will.

Jaxom.7310:

Dirame.8521:

Hey guys,

Y’all may not know me but I’m a totally well known PvPer in this game because I win all the things and bring home all the points so my opinion is obviously very useful. Now that I’ve overstated my importance, let’s begin with my extremely short review of the new maps. Let’s start with Skyhammer.

SKYHAMMER:
As one of the only people who valued the old skyhammer for

….

it was at this pt i realized your post was not worth the time. thx tho

Kodama.6453:

nehkz.2304:

Pretty sure engineers are useful without slick shoes.

I guess he meant it was the only skill, which gave us a sure place in raids (Gorseval).
This skill allowed the engineer to break the break bar all by himself. Now this is no longer an option so there is no need to take a engineer with you anymore.

He’s a PvPer so he’s probably talking about PvP. Hey Argi o/

Slick shoes is still pretty good, it’s just, now we have to ACTUALLY TRY when we want to chain CC someone.

History always repeats.

Hey guys,

Y’all may not know me but I’m a totally well known PvPer in this game because I win all the things and bring home all the points so my opinion is obviously very useful. Now that I’ve overstated my importance, let’s begin with my extremely short review of the new maps. Let’s start with Skyhammer.

SKYHAMMER:
As one of the only people who valued the old skyhammer for it’s ability to teach me about opportunity awareness (both offensively and defensively), I find this new Skyhammer quite the bore. The Skyhammer of old had a sense of skill, timing and heap loads of punishment for bad choices but now it’s just….. Battle of Khylo with a new skin?

PROBLEMS:
- It’s boring.
- It doesn’t feel unique.
- Skyhammer shooting once rather than multiple times makes it feel unimportant in the grand scheme.

HOW TO FIX:
- Bring back the plates around each point but make it only breakable by the Skyhammer shots. (This will definitely bring opportunity awareness back).

OR

(If you want to keep it as is aka BORING)
Make the Skyhammer shoot multiple times (preferably 3 times) in one charge so as to be more of a threat to whoever is holding the point. Having it shoot just once makes the skyhammer very very useless.

OR

To make it extra interesting, implement both of the above suggestions.

SPIRIT WATCH
This map was a great map before and I never knew why it didn’t make competitive play. When I inquired about it with some of ye olde PvP players, they said the map layout is uneven, one side has a special way of getting to their node that’s faster than the other side. And that was surprisingly the ONLY reason.
That said, I do like some the changes here;

THINGS I LIKED:
- Skill lock when carrying the orb
- The Orb not spawning so early at the start of the game

PROBLEMS:
- Frequency of orb spawns; Rate at which orbs spawn right now will not affect the game that much. Easy Fix is to let the orbs spawn in half the time it takes to spawn now. Let it spawn 5 minutes into the match but every time it’s used or dropped into a node, it spawns 30s to a minute later. Allowing it to be the comeback mechanic of the map.

- The not so apparent un-evenness of the map? I can’t tell if it’s there but apparently it is so….. fix it?

LEGACY OF TEH FOEFIRE
Nothing much to say here. This change was pretty good overall. That said;

PROBLEMS:
- Slick shoes Engies and Staff Revs wrecking that sweet sweet Defiance bar.
- Almost all classes can beat all 4 NPCs solo and having them rush in all at once rather than one at a time is neither here nor there.

HOW TO FIX:
- Nerf the Slick Shoes and the Rev staff #5
- Give the Melee NPCs more health and the Casters 2 new skills, Static Field and Gust.

And one thing I’d like to add…. why isn’t Courtyard in the Hot-join rotation? It’s the perfect map to be in the Hot-join rotation.

That said, share your opinions on the new changes to the maps guys.

Woooooow!

You guys are pulling out all the stops on these glider skins. From the elecro-graviton Glider (i don’t remember what it’s called) to this….. I’m seriously impressed. You actually got me to want to buy a glider.

I just want to say that I might have been wrong about when you would do it….. but I was kitten right that you would do it.

Strider’s Defense: This trait’s chance to destroy projectiles while executing a melee attack has been increased from 25% to 50%.

Please guys, just come up with something else.

GreenRipper.6432:

Now ALL gyros are useless. The only advantage of Sneak Gyro was in PvP and WvW, for PvE it is not used, now it will not be used anywhere.

This cooldown increase only makes it LESS of a crotch, it doesn’t remove it completely. And Engies can survive long enough regardless of that gyro.

Beaten a team like that before. The only time it works is in the hands of good players. I’d throw a dual necro/burst mesmer combo against them.

Mysticjedi.6053:

Dirame.8521:

Cynz.9437:

Was kind of expected given how mmr wasn’t reset despite the promises made by Anet. People with no/low mmr shot up the ruby fast, people with high mmr have to deal with lovely 50% w/l algorithm and actually fight hard matches to gain any pips which makes their progression quite slow.

Don’t be silly. This has nothing to do with MMR reset. Even if MMR was reset, people will still be bad and there will still be a large amount of people entering Ruby that kinda stumbled through the other ranks (because Ruby is the first rank where you can lose pips).

So reality is, the people who can leave Ruby and enter Diamond (without the aid of a team) are the real MVP.

There are no MVPs in this system it is completely based on RNG. Lesson for the next league: grind hard at the beginning and you’ll stay with the hard core pvp players.

I didn’t and took it easy. Now I’m with people who double cap points in Ruby. I’m fine if that is where I belong, but this league gives no sense of skill only who got lucky match-ups, or has friends to play with.

This is true.

Cynz.9437:

Was kind of expected given how mmr wasn’t reset despite the promises made by Anet. People with no/low mmr shot up the ruby fast, people with high mmr have to deal with lovely 50% w/l algorithm and actually fight hard matches to gain any pips which makes their progression quite slow.

Don’t be silly. This has nothing to do with MMR reset. Even if MMR was reset, people will still be bad and there will still be a large amount of people entering Ruby that kinda stumbled through the other ranks (because Ruby is the first rank where you can lose pips).

So reality is, the people who can leave Ruby and enter Diamond (without the aid of a team) are the real MVP.

rager.4963:

Just wondering has anyone stayed Necromancer because they like Death Shroud?

The current meta in pvp favours the old Necromancer so I’ve been playing it.

This is why I have a combat log that I switch to when I don’t want to deal with chat.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

i think its because they have 2 sapphires in their team, the stupid match prediction sorts of takes that into account as well.

they have 1 diamond, 2 rubies, 2 sapphires.

say your team of 5 rubies = 5 × 4 = 20 points
their team of
1 diamond = 5
2 sapphires = 2 × 3 = 6
2 rubies = 2 × 4 = 8

5 + 6 + 8 = 19

technically their total division point is one point less than your team.
but yeah, the match prediction is totally being a kitten in this case.

They had a Legendary not a diamond.

gemnscout.5739:

2. Move Master of Corruption to GM. Add: Cast Epidemic on crit if target has 5 or more conditions.

Too OP?

Yeap.

mov.1246:

hammer ist just better than rifle in spvp.
more dmg, more sustain, more viable.

Hammer requires Melee, Rifle doesn’t. So training down a running Revenant or a Mesmer trying to escape is a lot easier.

Your sustain may be good but your keep up game is pretty weak.

Ragion.2831:

Dirame.8521:

I would change the build depending on who I was fighting. Are you fighting mostly Dragonhunters, then poison cloud, am i fighting mostly Revs? then Corrupt Boon.

Fighting both? Pick the one that’s useful for fighting both of them.

you have just pointed out the single most damaging flaw of the entire class. Typically with most other classes all you need to do is run some utilites that you think are most important then let the innate flexibility of the class do the rest but since that doesnt apply to Reaper, you basically have to change your build everytime you need to fight someone, so what about PvP?

Err… that’s what I do for every class unless I know the build I’m playing can take on everything.

This meta only allows for things that can beat Mesmers, Eles and Revs. That or you settle for just being able to dispatch 2 of the 3 annoyances. Therefore, Marauder engie is still your best bet for an all purpose counter.

Not bugged. It’s built for combos not direct damage.

I usually play what I think counters the meta and on very few instances does that include Engies.
In this meta, the only thing I see influencing a match apart from the current famous Engie build is a decaper engie with the ability to throw out unblockable CC.
There’s going to be a severe reduction in Necros the higher you go as well so you don’t have to worry about crazy condi pressure that much ‘cos even though Revs are crazy condi applicants, they still don’t apply as much as Necros in a single burst. So with the right timing, you could recap a bunker mesmer or Revenant whilst keeping yourself alive.

Lol, dailies can be done in Hot join you know? No need to screw over other people just because of your selfishness.

Soryuju.8164:

If you’re not willing to show proof for the “sheep” that you’re looking down on.

Go watch my videos then or watch me when I stream. And I hate to look down on people, which is why I said we rather than you because I know that I am also forced to play the Meta specs because no one wants to believe in trying to counter.

nearlight.3064:

I don’t think I’d reccomend playing base condi necro in pvp. Yes it has the potential to have far more boon corruption and burst pressure than condi reaper (from having both spite and curses), but its sustained pressure is very much lacking without deathly chill, and its generally easier to train down in teamfights. So more risk for a sitautionally different reward.

And even when you take that all away condi rev is better because shiro lets it zip around the map way faster.

The slowness of the Necro actually works to it’s advantage (and so does this slow kill meta) because the Necro can come in when people have used a lot of their cooldowns, “turn down for what” a Rev before he can even blink and all of a sudden, the mobility of the Rev doesn’t matter. Just like portal doesn’t matter as proven by several bunker mesmers.

Soryuju.8164:

Post some footage from ranked play with some of these builds, then, and demonstrate how they counter the builds currently at the top of competitive play (or fill the same roles more effectively). If you’re going to make a claim like that, then the burden of proof is on you. But keep in mind, there are lots of players who actually want to play their core specs, and players who are forced to because they didn’t purchase HoT. Support for these specs hasn’t disappeared in the way you’re suggesting.

From my perspective, though, Condition Necro seems like a really bad idea in such a CC-heavy meta, considering the core Necro’s famous weakness to CC of all types. If Reaper’s Shroud didn’t offer an excellent source of continuous Stability, I don’t imagine you’d see nearly as many in high-level play. Many Guardian mains tried Bunker Guard shortly before the Pro Leagues started and got obliterated by this meta’s unique combination of unblockable attacks, boon-stripping, condition spam, and chain CC. And as mentioned above, core Ele actually has seen play at the top level, but its representation has been minimal and more teams are moving away from it as time passes. The new levels of pressure introduced with HoT don’t allow it to have the same staying power that it used to.

If you take a look at the Necro and put it in a bubble. It has the power to beat mesmers and Revs in a 1v1. Put it in a team fight it can get focused down. That’s all well and good.

Now put that Necro in this meta, with the specs that you complain about, the CC that you say is bad and the support that you say is too much, all of sudden you have a class that can stay alive in the team fight, just by the virtue of his teammates. This is the thing that people are being too blind to see, the necro doesn’t need to be self-sufficient in this meta if you know how to play as a team. And it’s not about replacing a role but rather, completely making invalid, the existence of a current one. That’s what condi Revs did to both DHs and Power Revs. And that’s what a good base Necro can do.

In reply to your “prove it!” comment. I say, go figure it out yourself, I personally won’t tell you how to do it. I’m just here to inform you that there is a solution to your problem, you just have to be looking for the solution in the first place.

And I wouldn’t play base Condi Guard against Condi Revs and Necros. Medi guard seems more like they can put up a fight against condi revs than, Condi Guard can and possibly, even against Condi Necros.

Silverkey.2078:

Dirame.8521:

The only reason why non-elite specs are “obsolete” is because we are a bunch of sheep who like to follow instead of see what counters what. Base condi Necro? Easily meta material able to counter all the “OP” specs. Shout Guard? Easily counters condi spam from Revs, DD Ele? that piece of craziness is still hard to kill. We could counter the meta but we’d rather just complain about it because….. reasons.

They are obsolete because they are obsolete. Shout guard is out without minstrel amulet. Core condi necro is an awful spec. D/D ele is still ok, which is why some people still played it.

Good news: the perma-resistance variant of bunker chrono may counter condi rev.

If you don’t believe me that’s fine. Just know that if you’re not willing to actually think about how to counter the meta, you’re part of the problem.

Soryuju.8164:

Dirame.8521:

Silverkey.2078:

I think you are missing many of the points. Personally my main problem with the new meta, is not even how restrictive it is but how unfun it is. Too much CC, too much invulnerabilities, too much damage, too much healing. The fact that they all balance themselves somewhat does not mean the meta is fine.

Doesn’t the main point come down to “Nerf Condi Rev and Bunker Mes?” Or did I get that wrong somehow?

I think it was more along the lines of “Nerf the huge number of passive procs, instant-cast skills, spike damage, invulnerabilities, evades, blocks, and general skill spam that have been steadily introduced into the game over the past couple years.” Chronomancer and Revenant happen to have a lot of those things, but the problem goes beyond just those two. As mentioned earlier in the thread, if you just nerf Bunker Chrono and Condi Rev, you’re not going to see any significant change, because the other Elite specs are still incredibly overpowered, and they’re just going to move in to fill the void. Maybe Daredevil would see a bit more play, but non-elite specs were still completely shut out even before we saw the rise of those two builds.

As a sidebar, I don’t really understand how some people are okay with a meta where two professions are virtually unplayable, non-elite specs are obsolete, and where the general skill ceiling has fallen dramatically. Just because you’re having success in this meta doesn’t mean that the game is in a healthy state. Similarly, the fact that it’s possible to counter certain builds doesn’t mean that those builds are positive factors in the metagame as a whole.

The only reason why non-elite specs are “obsolete” is because we are a bunch of sheep who like to follow instead of see what counters what. Base condi Necro? Easily meta material able to counter all the “OP” specs. Shout Guard? Easily counters condi spam from Revs, DD Ele? that piece of craziness is still hard to kill. We could counter the meta but we’d rather just complain about it because….. reasons.

Exos.3472:

In that sense, wouldn’t corrupt boon work as nicely against DH ? I mean, if I’m able to force them to use renewed focus then F2, I could safely corrupt the stability on their virtue of courage (F3) since CB is unblockable.

Would have a hard time against the bumping autos though.

Yes, their autos can be painful but, their main damage is from true shot and traps, so stay away from that and if you can force them to use stab, you can definitely make use of the corrupt boon. It’s what I’ve been doing.

dank.3680:

I don’t agree.. Won too many of these matches that seemed doomed to fail.. Stop giving up people..

Amen!

StickerHappy.8052:

Am I supposed to endure more of this?

Pls fix match making. teammates are always so……

Hahaha, just 5 losses dude. Been there, done that. Life is not that bad. You’ll get out of T1 soon.

TPMN.1483:

What you have to remember ANET do not take classes into consideration when match making. Only a persons account based MMR.

Which makes the whole system a big joke.

They need to lock which class you roll/que in and use that to calculate class comp + individual class MMR -> likelyhood of win/loss to prevent this rubbish.

They do take classes into consideration but there’s always the odd moment when the game will put two professions on the same team because of all the algorithms that have to be taken into account BEFORE professions.

Silverkey.2078:

I think you are missing many of the points. Personally my main problem with the new meta, is not even how restrictive it is but how unfun it is. Too much CC, too much invulnerabilities, too much damage, too much healing. The fact that they all balance themselves somewhat does not mean the meta is fine.

Doesn’t the main point come down to “Nerf Condi Rev and Bunker Mes?” Or did I get that wrong somehow?

Aeroxe.8140:

I’m positive arenanet is aware of the current meta in guild wars 2 competitive pvp, but I just want to ensure that the core issues in the current meta are well understood by both the developers and community. I also want to make clear that some issues that may be perceived by the community are actually not issues at all in competitive play. From my understanding, some of the balance in the game is driven not by the people in proleague but also by some forum input.

I am a participant in the ESL proleague team for NA called Zero Counterplay, and I don’t think there is a better name for the current meta as of now. ESL proleague tomorrow is going to be quite….a shock… from what I’ve seen in scrimmages for the past week.

Anyways, I’ll state some of the goingon’s in proleague scrimmages, issues in balance, and some (what I think to be) false beliefs in point form for conciseness. I’ll also try to cut it short, and not be stating too many specifics so that I am respectful of my fellow proleague teams.

1) Dragonhunter is fine.
If anything, it’s actually a bit weak at the moment, and I don’t think many of the teams currently in NA are running it (I believe one team is?). I don’t agree entirely with some of the class design choices, but yeah you won’t see much of this in proleague. It’s just not good enough.

2) Thief and warrior are dead…mostly.
It saddens me, but the stuff out there in the current meta is really just too strong. Many thieves in NA have switched over I think in this past week to one of the stronger classes.

3) League system does need some finetuning.
I don’t think I have to go over this.

4) Bunker mesmer and condition revenant are beyond ridiculous, and teams having been testing their potency by running x2, x3, and even x4.
-These builds are really really really strong and extremely forgiving. Many teamfights are just a mess with 1v1s and 2v2s especially being more dictated by passive procs and luck. The skill ceiling has fallen drastically.

5) Elementalist and druid are being phased out
-Bunker mesmer is claiming their spots.. Elementalists and druids are still viable somewhat, but some teams have dropped the classes entirely.

6) Marauder scrapper is coming back, but not entirely. Like reaper now, it is being tested in comparison to bunker mes and condi rev.

7) The power creep is very, very real.
-Balance patches in the future should aim not to buff underpowered specs, but to tune what is too strong at the present time.

I think that covers most of the things I wanted to say, but yeah things aren’t looking too bright from the competitive side. I’ll try to add things that come to mind. Proleague is still going to be a blast to watch though, so check it out tomorrow!

Just as you said, meta is dictated by forum perception but what you’ve just done right now, is incept the perception of the forum, going full on spew mode on reinforcing and backing up the claims that the rest of the (mostly wrong) community has been saying.

I won’t lie, Bunker Mesmers are hard to kill and they influence matches a lot, their survivability is off the charts and running two of them in team fights can allow you to last incredibly long BUT that does not mean they can’t be out-rotated or beaten, it just means they might need a looking at to give them more of a weakness. Right now their only weakness is Necro because, the necro can hit them in the small window that they are vulnerable, shutting them down semi-completely, even beating them in 1v1s. But from what I’ve seen, many of you teams are unwilling to even try to counter the meta. Most of what I see people do is complain and complain and complain without actually looking at what tools they have. Seriously, all I see all the time is mirror comps upon mirror comps and then you scream bloody murder when you can’t kill the other guy who beat you on the very same comp you were playing. Seriously, you guys need to wake up.

The same with Condi Revs. These guys are far from OP. If the counter to Power Rev is condi, the counter to the current condi rev is burst. And going further than that, the counter to the entire current meta of Double condi Rev and Double mesmer, is a combination of burst and condition damage. A good coordinated spike on a condi Rev will down him in a few seconds. Your retort could be “A coordinated spike would kill anyone in a few seconds” but just to humour you, I will explain why it’s different for Revs. On Viper’s, Revs have low health, low toughness, allowing them to be easily bursted down. Strip their boons, condi burst them and CC them to keep them from casting Resistance and condi will kill them faster than a GW1 necro minion getting blasted by holy damage.

Seriously guys, you switch builds to what’s powerful because you want to win but the funny thing is, the team that played what is currently considered powerful, played it because it countered what was powerful. So guess what you have to do in order to beat them? Oh…. wait…. you’re just going to copy them aren’t you? Never mind, forget I said anything.

Zoricus.2439:

muscarine.5136:

About the 50% ratio, yes, and i think it’s fair, i personnaly know i won’t get past ruby and i’m fine with it, people who go past that 1/ team queue 2/ are better than me.

This is actually, despites its flaw, a system that will reward the best, like it should be.

It rewards people that can team queue 100% of the time.

Funny thing about that, every time I team queue with more than 3 people, the 50% thing kicks in. But when I play solo or with 1 other or with 2 others, I just jump through the tiers like I’m skipping daisies.

I would change the build depending on who I was fighting. Are you fighting mostly Dragonhunters, then poison cloud, am i fighting mostly Revs? then Corrupt Boon.

Fighting both? Pick the one that’s useful for fighting both of them.

What class do you play?

Thought it would be fun to make a new thief specialization so here it is below;

Background/Aesthetic: Fights dirty and always supports his crew. {One of the problems people say that core thief has is the ability to support so I tried to add as much support as the aesthetic would allow. This can be seen in the traits}

New Mechanic: F3: Improvise. Spawn an environmental weapon to use on your target. This is determined by the area you are standing. If you stand in water, you gain a bottle of water to heal yourself. if you are standing in a rocky area you gain a rock to daze a target or dirt to blind a target. {Basically steal but for the environment you’re standing in}

Hammer skills:

1. Hit, weave and hit, throw dirt.
   Stealth skill – Leg Sweep – Aoe knockdown 2s
2. Scoundrel’s retreat: Shadow step away – shadow step to.
3. Head Crack – Daze 2s, if target is knocked down, stun for 3s
4. Ground smash – Smash the ground and create a Smoke field, applies blind to targets and stealth you for 2s
5. Backbreaker. Deal heavy damage. If target is knocked down or stunned deal 10% more damage.
   {For the Hammer skills I wanted something reminiscent of the old Assassin hammer specs from GW1}

Utility: Heal Skill: Grog, drink a bottle of aged rum, spit some of the rum in your targets face(s) and gain a bottle on your f3 to break over your targets head. Applies blind and bleed. {I did say he/she fights dirty}

Kick in the groin – Break stun and stun your target for 3s

Hidden Pistol – Applies 3s of immob and 3stacks of bleed for 6s.

Hidden dagger – Bleed, deal damage and interrupt your foe. Can be used whilst knocked down.

Hidden explosive – Instant activation. Unblockable. Timed explosive. PBAOE. Timer 2s. Attach an explosive to your target without them knowing. Applies 2 stacks bleed and 2 stacks of burn for 3s

Elite Skill: Call in the crew – Hit up to 3 targets with a clothesline. Call in your crew to help you finish them off. 5s stun for all targets whilst ability is active. You cannot attack the targets whilst the ability is active.

{For the utilities I wanted to implement something that showed a character who would do anything to win a fight. Doesn’t matter if he shoots you in the groin to do it.}

MINOR:
- Scoundrel Gain access to Scoundrel stuff. Improvisation trait now affects brawling skills
- Smart Man: Using your F3 gives you 3 initiative
-Think Fast: Gain Quickness and Alacrity when you use your F3.
{The idea behind these minors is to match the aesthetic of the quick thinking and quick reacting scoundrel}

ADEPT
- Make’em hurt: Bleeds you apply deal 20% more damage.
- Soften’em up: When you use the improvisation skill, your next attack does 10% more damage.
- Safety first: When you start rezzing an ally, you shadowstep their bodies away from your target.

MAJOR
- Get Bottled: Targets hit with a bottle gain the glass shards debuff. Melee attacks dealt to them applies additional bleeds.
- Sleight of nade: Hitting target with a stealth skill applies hidden explosive to them.
- Share the booty: When you heal or are healed, you share 90% of that with allies in 600 radius

GRANDMASTER
- Drunkennmaster: Everytime you use improvise, you gain a bottle of grog. Targets hit by bottle of grog gain the flammable debuff. Burns applied to them give them an additional 3 stacks.
- Opportune Moment: Stunned or knocked down foes take 20% more damage from your attacks
- All together lads: Gain a stacking buff to you and your allies for each ally nearby. 3% increased damage. Max of 5 stacks.

{With these traits you could go condi (top line), Power (middle line) or support (bottom line). Mixing and matching different traits can also work too. For instance, you can take Make’em hurt with Sleight of nade and Drunkenmaster as Make’em hurt will improve the bleed damage of the Hidden Explosive from Sleight of Nade and Drunkenmaster will increase the amount of burn stacks applied to the target when a bottle of grog debuff is on them and the nade from Sleight of Nade explodes. You can also take Soften’em up with Drunkenmaster or Get bottled and the Bottles you gain will do extra damage upon hitting someone and so on and so forth.}

So that’s my idea. Let me know your thoughts.

TAKE ALL THE CLEANSES.

Healing Spring. Empathic Bond, Signet of Renewal, Druidic Clarity ALL OF THEM

Yeap. Made it out of Emerald. Some of my wins were duo Q and team queue but most of them were solo.

XGhoul.7426:

I need to make a full post to stop the rose tinted glasses. Anybody that considered RA, actually balanced was a scrub, and always will be, because they could not compete at a higher level which was HA or GvG. RA became a stupid grind sync fest because the only people that made it that far just synced queued to rank 9 or 10 glad, if you solo’d into that mess you were a masochist like this system is now, so let’s stop being delusional for once.

Back on topic:

The way I found playing with better people was what this games soloq was, prove yourself to actually be better, get pm’s and prove yourself again/ learn team mechanics. This repeat of gw1 mechanics disgusts me, since the people that try to relate to it were the same that were getting farmed in that game too.

I guess I look past the name tags and guild names and just see A CHALLENGE. And I want to punch that challenge so hard, that the ripples will be felt by all the challenges everywhere.

Flumek.9043:

Random arena is a fitting name for current matchmaking

The funny thing about RA was, at the end of the 25 wins, you’d be sent into Team Arena to begin a torturous journey through deep cheese but when you lose, you can choose to go back to RA or form a team in TA.