I have to ask you Drakkon.
Your question is just patently ridiculous. Not even close to what we’re discussing.
And yes, the US would declare victory, just like GW did for Afghanistan. Prematurely, and without a lot of credibility, but it would happen. I’m not proud of my government, but admitting politicians are idiots isn’t exactly treason, yet. It might become “Revealing State Secrets” soon, though.
And then of course there are 3 more major races. Norn would probably fight for both sides, as mercenaries, Sylvari, I see them on the human side. They are really into fulfilling ones destiny and being the heir to a reawakened kingdom screams destiny, while conquering something because you can, seems more like general kittenery. So the Asura could be the deciding point and honestly, I think they would be neutral. They only care about their own gain, so no matter who wins this fight, they can just wipe out the weakend winner if they want (atleast this would be the Inquest approach I guess).
As I don’t necessarily disagree with the rest, I’m not addressing it directly. I just have a problem here. I don’t see the Sylvari siding exclusively with the Humans. The Charr are honest about their ruthlessness. They’re violent, certainly, but they’re not evil. I think the Sylvari would probably work with both sides to broker a lasting peace if open violence starts up. Like the Norn, the Sylvari would not side, directly. The Asura… are different. They wouldn’t side with anyone, but would probably sell weapons and golems to whoever wanted them.
Not quite true, the Pact is there. I don’t think they would just leave Orr until they found someone who takes it. If the Charr would march into that, I’m pretty sure they would see this as an act of war and treachery to Pact and it’s allies.
In that case we would have the Zhaitan situation with the Charr getting some slaps on their greedy paws.
If the land is already human by that point, it goes back to my earlier point, all-out war between humanity + possibly Sylvari versus Charr.
We can’t deal with the Pact. it’s a player-involved faction, and if this were to play out, the players would direct them to support their own side, or the Pact would stay out of it. It’s just… awkward to bring them into the discussion.
I’m not even denying some forces in the Charr Legions would welcome such a war, same can be said about some of the humans (/cough Caudecus). But as we come to agree (I guess), at the current point, no sides leaders would want such a war.
Yeah, I don’t think that a war is in anyone’s interests. I think that the best option is a multiracial option, but I don’t doubt the Charr would prevail. They’re just… driven.
If I may draw a historical reference again, right before WWI, all nations wanted this war, until about a few days before it started, when everyone crapped their pants, as they saw what they just unleashed. Not just one of those tiny little wars for dominance, but a full-blown until the bitter end war. And then they wanted to stop it. Sadly it was too late.
The current leaders of both the humans and the Charr are to smart for that, but get some people like Tsar Nicholas II or Kaiser Wilhem II in their places and kitten goes down.
Most definitely. More over, they have an advantage in that communication is nearly instant because of the Waygates. People keep bringing up the logistics of moving an army, but with the Waygates, this isn’t a problem. I keep wondering what game people are playing. Good points.
PS.: Had to cut down the quotes a bit for the character limit
I know, right?
(edited by Drakkon.4782)
The Charr didn’t win either. Kilborne couldn’t have surrendered, since that is what you think he did, since he wasn’t the king. If he had deceived the king into thinking his attack would have only killed the Charr knowing it would wipe out Orr his action would be deemed a third party attacking both sides. If he did it unknowingly that it would do what it did, then he was ignorant and STILL it couldn’t be claimed to be a surrender.
Homogenizing and dividing whenever it’s convenient. Orr as a nation vs Kilborne as a person. None of that matters from the Charr POV. The Orrians destroyed themselves to prevent a loss, and that is an admission of failure. The Charr won the war, in their eyes, and that’s what matters. You don’t have to agree with that assessment, but it’s how the Charr talk about things when you speak to them in Orr. Listen to the conversations.
The Charr didn’t earn their ‘prize’ of Orr since they never conquered it so they have no claim to something they didn’t ‘earn’.
“Earn”? My, how racist of you. “Earn”. They didn’t EARN their prize. Well, so nice of you to be the judge of that. Here’s your little white and black striped jersey.
Who are you to say what they have and have not “earned”? That’s so racist. Those kitten cats, eh? Getting all uppity? Thinking they have the right to lay claim to what is clearly human land? We’ll put them in their place, right?
Now if they did decide to go back to attempt it, since you put that IF the devs decided to send them back they would take it easy. Who is to say the other race, besides Human, wouldn’t intervene? Since you like ‘IF’ what if the Pact decided to keep it? The Pact is stronger than the Charr even if the Charr left it so they could attack Orr, the whole 4 races vs 1 race kinda works against the Charr.
What’s to attack? Orr has no army, no government. You’re still not addressing the fact that Orr, as a nation, doesn’t exist. The Charr would simply be stepping in and setting up a government in new land.
Also, my Charr Engi is the Commander of the Pact, so I doubt he’ll be advising them that they need to get involved… Yes, everyone is the Commander of the Pact once you’ve progressed far enough alone, so why even bring them up, because no one is going to come to a consensus about that. The Pact can’t be used as an involved party. That makes the entire argument overly conplicated and impossible to sort out.
Since this debate isn’t going anywhere I would like to say thanks it was fun but, in my eyes, you haven’t presented and viable reason that the Charr have any claim to Orr, and I’m sure I haven’t done the same for the Humans in your eyes.
And in my eyes you’ve failed to present any logical reasons why the Charr claim wouldn’t be as valid as the human one. I’ve already accepted the human claim as being as valid as the Charr one. The sad part is that the racists are treating the human claim as better without presenting any form of validity for that argument, and worse, they are denying the Charr claim without having anything substantive to say about why. The real discussion is already moving away from whose claim is better and over to who would win, and even in that discussion, the Charr are the clear winners, though in a war, if it came to that, losses all around would be heavy.
It’s still far more likely that a collaborative government, possibly under the Pact, or with representatives sent from the five races, will be best and most likely outcome of the “How is Orr going to be handled?” question.
And if I start arguing against other people on “my side” over things like this, you can say that “my side” is quarreling and can’t make a coherent point. I can’t win in this situation, therefore it’s unfair for me. Heck there are others in this thread on your side, but I ignore them, or have already delt with them, so the best thing you could do, is do the same. It’s not my fault if other people argue with you at the same time, about the same thing, with different points. That just happens on a forum and we just have to deal with it.
It sucks, right? To quote one of my favorite movies: “This is madness!” “No, this is politics!”
Not saying royal lines, or claims are an easy thing to wrap ones head around, I’m just saying that this is pretty much how it works in Tyria too, atleast for humans. To figure out who and how a person is the closest relative of Reza and his royal line, is probably some human scholar’s, or the Shining Blade’s job (hey they found Salma, that’s something!).
Very convoluted, those bloodlines.
Of course the Charr could back up their claim of “we once send an army there, it’s ours!” by their military strength, but that wouldn’t get them many outside supporters. They would just behave like big bullies, walzing through to gain some land, that isn’t connected to them. And again, just because you have strong military doesn’t mean you can just run arround and do what you want. At some point, everyone else will be fed up with your bs and take you down in a combined effort. Pretty much what the Pact did to Zhaitan, could happen to the Charr, if they did what you suggest.
True, it wouldn’t win them any friends, unless no one cared, in which case, it wouldn’t cause them any problems, either. It’s important to remember what the prize is while we’re all arguing over who has legitimate claim to it: a land that is only slowly returning to life after being subjected to an artificial death since it rose from it’s watery grave. Raw real estate, which , traditionally, has been worth fighting over. While the Charr might not appreciate the response of the rest of the world, and the rest of the world might have to chew on the idea of banding together to overcome them, the fact of the matter is that it is worth the risk, and is something the Charr might risk.
Imperialism started out because of a need to expand the holdings of one’s country here on Earth. It wasn’t one of our prouder moments, but it happened. The Charr are arrogant enough to think that imperialism is something they could and/or should try.
There is a reason Smodur and Malice were welcoming the piece talks with humanity. Don’t you think they could have taken Ebonhawke if they really wanted and put all their effort in it? Of course they could, but they didn’t, since it was a chance at piece. Even the greatest warriors will get tired eventually, especially if you have the Flame Legion, Ghosts, Brandend, Ogres and what not to deal with.
I know they could. I fully explained this in a few of my other responses. The Charr could have blasted Ebonhawke to rubble. But what would that have accomplished? Nothing but a lot of dead Ascalonians, but human and Charr. Wasted lives.
This isn’t the case in Orr. There’s no one living there who can oppose the Charr, so any “defense” of Orr would have to be by a rival invading army. Call it right of the kings by bloodline, or defending against the expansionist armies of a militaristic race, or sugar coat it however you want, but we’re still talking about imperial expansionism, no matter whose doing it.
And just for the record, I’m a great fan of the Charr, how they turned out, how they behave and of their culture. But I don’t think there is any chance they would ever get Orr and I don’t think they even want it. At best they get a fortress there, like Ebonhawke in Ascalon is for the humans, with memorials for the fallen army of the cataclysm. But that’s it.
I don’t see it happening either, but in the hypothetical world of this thought experiment, as setup by the OP and the conversation we all joined, the only rule was “Which race would get it?” That denotes that, while the MOST INTELLIGENT AND LOGICAL OUTCOME is for all races to come together and build a Lion’s Arch style nation there, that wasn’t what we were discussing.
Humanity claims they have legitimate claim to Orr. The Charr can make the same claim. The Norn, Asura and Sylvani have NO CLAIM WHATSOEVER. So it’s Humans vs Charr in this thread, and I don’t see the Humans willing in a war against the Charr, if it came down to that.
But, as you pointed out, Smodur and Malice both have no inclination towards wiping humanity out, and are much more likely to foster cooperation over imperialism. I blame most of the arguing on the poor framework established for the discussion.
I’m honestly not sure what your issue is.
Overflow servers DO have the invasion events, as long as said overflow was set up within 10 minutes of the events starting on the main server. Just make sure you waypoint to the invasion area within 10 minutes of the start and you should be fine and end up in an overflow with the event active. And if you do happen to come across an overflow that doesn’t have the event active (I have heard a few times of overflows that bug out and don’t have it), then shut the game down and try again, as long as you’re within 10 minutes of the start.
In theory, that’s how it’s supposed to work, but I can confirm that it is NOT working as intended. The Overflows, even those created within minutes of the event starting, are not all getting the event. Porting out and back to try and get another overflow doesn’t work, and guesting to another server is a workaround, not a fix. The problem needs a fix, particularly a week into the event.
To the person who stated that female players want their character to look feminine, unless you send out a survey to all the female players who have a female charr, you can’t determine that.
Several people have already pointed that out to him. Obvious hyperbole was obvious. I have a female Charr character myself and I do -NOT- want her to look feminine. It ruins the mod of the Charr.
There’s a great scene in the Serrated Blade where a drunk patron hits on a female Charr, then mockingly says “Oh, kitten’s got claws,” when she rebuffs his advances. Her reply is so sweet: “Kitten’s got a sword, too. Now, back off.”
I can’t see that kind of behavior coming form someone in a frilly dress or wearing boob plate.
I have four female charr. I don’t want them to look human-female feminine at all. Rather, I want them to look like huge, muscular, eat-your-face-off beasts. It wouldn’t make sense to choose a cat-monster-from-hell race if you wanted a human-female-pretty character. While my charr are vicious, they also feel very much like females to me. If they were forced to wear “girl clothes”, they would actually feel less female to me. They’d stop being females, and start being cats in silly dress-up-clothing. I relate to them much better when there’s nothing to show their gender except biology.
Yep. I agree.
Here it is:
Leave this guy alone. He is argueing with himself, on the basis of ‘anything can AND WILL happen, doesn’t matter how much it is against logics’.And real world example: if you visit another country, you have to keep to both country’s laws.
There’s Orr. A former human land. According to human laws, that’s human land. According to charrs laws, if they conquer it, it’s theirs. Did they conquer it? Nope. According to overall laws, humans can claim Orr and charrs can’t. And charrs are busy enough to keep their ground in Ascalon, they won’t risk total collapse mostly because they want that treaty. And aside from “YEAH CHARRS DOMINATE THE WORLD GUYS GET ORR WHY NOT”, there’s totally 0 motive to make this step.
Charrs assaulted Orr but couldn’t take over, and Khilbron’s deed was a war act, not surrender. Actually, charrs couldn’t claim any portion of Orr not even for a second, they just rushed in and got destroyed. If Arah could hold out long enough and the Orrian army could’ve returned I’m sure they would’ve crushed the Charr, because their military power mixed with magic was second to none. Eventually, Charrs should be grateful to still exist/have Ascalon.
Btw in ‘ancient times’, people had common sense and didn’t hide behind liberal reasoning. Everyone knows that is a human land, even the charr and asura, they won’t attack human laws for a pointless war.
I’m out here.
I already responded to this on page 4, so “Same Answer: Pop! Pop!”
We aren’t one party, I can’t possibly know what other people will post, as much as they can’t know what I will post. And just because someone is on the same side, doesn’t mean he has the same reason to be so. Judging my posts, by other peoples is nonsensical, since I have 0 influence on them.
True, but you are the same side of the argument, so you should be somewhat circumspect about that. Just saying, people don’t differentiate the source of the message, just the message itself. You’re on the same side, you must be making the same arguments. It isn’t logical, but it what happens. If your side of the argument is confused as to its message, then the argument itself will get confused, too.
But back to the point.
Yes. Back to the point.
You see the humans of Tyria in a way to modern light, with everyone being a defiend nation, but that’s not the case with kingdoms. Nationalism in the sense we saw it starting in the 18th century, did not exist in the middle ages. It does to a degree in Guild Wars (for example Adelbern distrusting Krytans), but more as a form okittennowledging your own heritage, not as a political entity.
For a kingdom to exist, all that matters is a monarch and this monarch does not have to be from the country he is ruling, just look at Richard Lionheart, King of England, yet 100% french (well Norman, but he was born and lived in France and only spoke french. He hadn’t seen England until he was in an advanced age).
Same applies to Kryta and Orr. The king does not have to be orrian, he just has to be related to the royal line of Orr, which would be by default Queen Jennah, since both her and the orrian royal line (and the ascalonian for that matter) descent from a single person. It does matter that this was 1300 years ago, it still counts. So if Jennah so desired, she could rightfully claim Orr, being backed up by humans laws. Same goes for Wade Samuelsson, who is also a descendant of Doric, through the nobel familes of Ascalon. It’s even possible that one of those surviving orrians turns out to be related to King Reza.
Now again, those are human laws, that does not mean the other races accept them, but atleast it gives the humans the upper hand if another race claims Orr, none of which has a claim as solid as this. And since the land is currently supervised by the neutral Pact, they would most likely give it to the humans, if they give it free at all (which they eventually should, they are a military order, no government).
And, through Jennah, perhaps they have a legitimate claim in their eyes, but you must also acknowledge that the Charr have just a legitimate a claim, in their own eyes. The real question really isn’t who has the stronger claim, but who can back it up with the stronger force. On Tyria, that will almost always be the Charr. They are a nation of warriors.
That, but the way, is medieval politics akittens finest. I am a historian, actually, and I do know a bit about historical cultures. But the monarch is the nation, and the nations are sovereign. That’s the meaning of the word and its origin. Thus, when royal families started intermarrying, the lineages of succession became muddied and polluted with foreigners who had rightful claim to a throne. It was hard enough for courtiers back then to figure out who had the stronger claim, so it’s no doubt that we here and now, having mostly abandoned that way of running countries, would have a problem following it here.
I should note that the Charr are also the only democratic nation on the planet that we know of so far. Rule of the strongest is still a rule by the acceptance of the people, which is the essence of democracy. Voting is done through actions, not words. In a lot of ways, it is a more honest way of ruling. After all, you’ve already shown you can do the job successfully.
How exactly is it racist? The Charr don’t have ANY claim to Orr. They NEVER conquered it. They lost the fight when Kilborne blew everything up. From GW1 Wiki “The resulting explosion felled the invading army where it stood.” That means, while the Humans of Orr didn’t win the fight because they died as well, the Charr were wiped off the face of Orr and didn’t conquer anything, hence their law doesn’t apply.
Captain Hammer: “I remember it differently.” To the Charr, the fact that Kilborne sank the island and kill all of his own people in the process is an admission of weakness, and that they had actually won. Orr IS theirs to claim, because they DID conquer it.
But even that being as it may, the Charr laws don’t have timeframes attached to them, only conditions. Just because they haven’t done it yet doesn’t meant they won’t in the future, and if they can, then it is. Charr laws apply anywhere the Charr go. They really seem to believe that they’re a power unto themselves, and the only laws the obey are their own, unless one of their superiors tells them to obey someone else’s laws, too. It’s the law of the jungle. The strongest make the laws. Charr are strong, and until they fight to a standstill (such as with Ebonhawke), they will not acknowledge another power as being their rival.
The reason there is a peace treaty with Ebonhawke now is because both sides realize the cost of continuing the fight will be the eventual destruction of Ebonhawke, and no one, including the Charr, want that. They realize that the Ebonhawke are strong, and would make stronger allies. It’s a good tactical decision. But in no way does it contradict their belief that if they can take it, it’s theirs.
I think the problem you’re having with Charr laws is that they are really just the rules of bullying others. I’m strong, so if I take it from you, you can’t have it back unless you can take it back. Look at Ascalon. It was Charr lands for generations until the humans came. Then the humans held it for generations. But the Charr were about to take it back from the humans, who pulled a Kilborne, but didn’t destroy all the Charr. Instead, the Foefire created ghosts who will never fully go away, and so the Charr will always have to deal with them. And they will. But the Charr took back their lands, by force, and caused another enemy to destroy themselves rather than submit. Charr call that a victory, and claim the defeated’s lands. Orr is theirs under their laws, and by their own rights. You don’t have to like it, agree with it, or accept it as a final ruling, but you must accept that in their viewpoint, the Charr have claim.
I in no way said “Human laws are so we’ll let them hold sway over all the world.” Don’t put words in my text that aren’t there. I stated since the Charr LOST their law holds no jurisdiction over Orr and since Orr is the ancient lands of Humans their laws hold more jurisdiction.
The Charr didn’t lose. Kilborne kicked the board over. It isn’t the same thing. To the Charr, he acknowledged defeat, but attempted to deny the Charr their prize. Now that it’s back, it’s theirs.
Contrary to your belive, Mist and I, do not share the same opinon, even if we are on the vaguely definied same side. So him saying that Tyria has nothing to do with real world history is not my point and I totally disagree with it, since we know human birthright laws are heavily inspired by actual laws we saw in european history. In other words, my “story” is straight and you utterly fail to argue against it.
I never said you did. That was my point. You two are arguing the flip side of the same side of the issue, and it’s making both of you look weak and disorganized. From a propaganda standpoint, you guys look foolish, rudderless, and lost on your talking points. It’s like the 2012 Republican Presidential Campaign: Lots of noise but no substance.
Honestly, I love a good debate. I’d like to see stronger arguments coming from the pro-Human side, but right now, you guys collectively aren’t making a very good show of consolidating your position. Until you do, you’re going to look like you’re just doing donuts in the parking lot. Lots of smoke and noise, but you’re not getting anywhere.
I also wasn’t arguing against your point in that post. You make a good point with that, and I don’t necessarily disagree with that logic. HOWEVER, you need to look at my post above this one, and you’ll see where that argument falls down. In all honesty, I think you probably have the best chance of carrying this discussion on rationally and civilly. I look forward to your response.
Sorry for posting consecutively, too. Normally, I would have added this post to the last, but the last one was fairly long, so I decided to break up the set.
Leave this guy alone. He is incapable of thinking.
I do believe you’re trying to insult me. That was rude.
And real world example: if you visit another country, you have to keep to both country’s laws.
There’s Orr. A former human land.
Key word: FORMER. Orr has no government. No people. No laws. Nothing but history and an abandoned culture that no longer exists in any meaningful way.
According to human laws, that’s human land.
Homogenize the race when it suits you, separate the nations when it suits you. Either they’re HUMANS, and Kryta, Ebonhawke, Orr, Cantha and Elona are all one big culture with no separate nations, or they aren’t. Stop artificially blending them together when it suits you.
According to charrs laws, if they conquer it, it’s theirs. Did they conquer it? Nope.
Not yet. But their laws say that if they conquer it, it belongs to them. Therefore, IF they conquer it, it will be Charr land.
According to overall laws, humans can claim Orr and charrs can’t.
Charr can do anything they set their mind to. IF the devs say that they are taking over Orr, then they are. What you think their motivations or lackthereof might be don’t matter. Neither do mine. What matters is if they can do it, and they can. The possibility exists.
And charrs are busy enough to keep their ground in Ascalon, they won’t risk total collapse mostly because they WANT THAT kittenING TREATY. And aside from “YEAH CHARRS DOMINATE THE WORLD GUYS GET ORR WHY NOT”, there’s totally 0 motive to make this step.
The Charr are NOT too busy, particularly now that they have a peace treaty with Ebonhawke, a human nation that has NOT claim AT ALL on Orr, and wouldn’t care if the Charr claimed it because no one (but possible refuges and stragglers) is actually living there, and they COMPLETELY lack the ability to do anything about it anyway.
And while I am pro-Charr, I’m also pro-Asura, and not particularly anti-anyone. It’s just, under the established laws of humanity, the only one’s left to ‘claim’ Orr are peasants and refuges, and if they can’t form an effective government, there’s no point in them doing so. So while “Human” (I’m going to homogenize them because you don’t seem to care about the distinctions between races and nations) laws given them the right to claim Orr, they simply don’t have the will or the means. I doubt, given how Jennah is fighting a campaign not to be seen as a weak Queen, that she would have the resources to expend on propping up a shell government of Orr for the refuges who decide to claim it for their own.
You’ve given great thought to talking about the logistical nightmare that would be the Charr Campaign, but have you given even a moment’s thought to the Human Campaign for Orr? Who, exactly, is going to fight for the Orrians so that they can form their own government? Who is going to collect the scattered members of that failed nation and spread the word that it’s time to “go home”? How many will actually respond? Who will be the new nobility? Who will still be a peasant? Why would anyone be a peasant when the very CROWN is up for grabs? You accused me of being unable to think, but I don’t think you’ve given this part of the argument ANY thought.
Your whole argument against the Charr is a racist house of cards. You don’t like them, so you rail against them, but you don’t have any plans for the other side of the argument. When you, or any “pro-Human” wants to answer those questions, with specifics and in detail, you can continue making the anti-Charr argument. Until then, you can keep the racist kitten in its bag.
I’m out here.
You’ve allowed yourself to get a little too personally involved in this discussion. Go enjoy your time out. You need to back off before you say something that’s going to get you a short enforced forum vacation.
The Black Citadel is capitol for Iron Legion. If I’m not mistaken, this is Iron Legion’s land, not the land of the Charr in general. Ash and Blood have their homelands farther away from Ascalon, places Anet will probably expand upon sooner or later. You can actually see Blood’s on the map out of where we can go.
If this is true and the Black Citadel isn’t the actual racial capital, then I look forward to seeing the others. This is what ANet should be doing, rather than making more 2-week events.
I hope that the flame legion’s homelands are shown as well. The Citadel of Flame is a stronghold, but I seriously doubt that they just mould soldiers to throw at gunfire and women to oppress out of the magma there.
…
You should look into cults and the way they recruit. The abuse and oppression once someone is a true believer doesn’t feel like abuse and oppression. It becomes accepted, tolerated, and even missed when absent. Look into Stockholm Syndrome, too. Those who are already inside, and have been for generations don’t see what they’re doing or what is being done to them as horrific. To them its the way they were raised. It takes prolonged exposure to better ways of living to break through such a cultural divide.
For the Charr, that breakthrough came when they discovered their so-called gods weren’t gods but merely powerful monsters. This shattered the hold the Flame Legion had on the other Legions and incited rebellion which sparked over to full rage against all forms of divinity.
But among the Flame Legion, they believe their gods were betrayed by the other Legions, and the Shamans have managed to keep order somehow. Their faith in the Titans was unshakable because they had been given incredible power by the Titans. That faith also keeps both the members of the Flame Legion loyal, and recruits new members. It isn’t a winning proposition for most, but those who crave power above all else are usually willing to do whatever it takes to get it, and can be recruited fairly easily.
an issue I see is that the argument of Kryta having Orr that hinges on an alleged human law that passes fallen kingdoms to descendents of peasants. Yet, the supposed Charr law of taking what they want by force is some how ignored? This seems to be a double standard that cherry picks information in order to come to a predetermined conclusion.
OMG! CIRCLE THE DATE! DUSTFINGER IS AGREEING WITH ME!
faints
Orr is as much human ancestral land as ascalon is Charr ancestral land. Even more so in fact. As I already explained countless times in this thread
And this is why you’re falling on deaf ears: Which humans? Orrians are dead. Krytans have no claim on Orr. Canthan either. Elonans? Nope. Nada.
See, you just don’t get it. The problem you’re missing is that GW2 treats races properly. Not as one mindless faction, but as separate nations. You can’t say that Orr belongs to the Humans because there are more than one human nations on Tyria. This is why your arguments always fail.
The Charr are made up of three Legions, but they cooperate amongst themselves. They may bicker internally, but they fight as one front. This, too, is a realistic mimicry of the real world. And it is because of this cooperation that makes the Charr the most likely to lay claim to Orr.
Until you formulate an argument that addresses WHICH human nation is suited to defeat a Charr claim, you won’t win any of the arguments. And don’t try the war card. It’s been tried, and it isn’t holding water. No one wants to start a war with the Charr War Machine. The humans have just brokered peace with them. They know that no one wins in a war with a culture that refuses to back down. The Charr will burn the world to the ground if they have to. Everyone knows it, except those who keep saying that anyone but humans will cause a war to break out.
As to Charr just trudging their war machines over to Orr and claiming it, I think it equally as unlikely. They seem to be made for a very specific land type. Once they are brought through the Crystal Desert or Shiverpeak mountains they will be near worthless, as is seen in certain missions within Orr.
Did you forget about the Asuran Gates? They don’t have to go through any territories. There are Asuran Gates in Orr already. Back alley deals can be made to use the gates fairly easily. More over, Orr itself is changing, as has been also pointed out, which means that the war machines will work much better than they did on the decaying lands.
(edited by Drakkon.4782)
My friend, has 13500 + gold, 35000 gems, all 8 characters with commander tags and culural armor, all bag slots and bank slots bought, ALL minatiure SET 1 AND special
AND if that’s not enough
he has 8 precursors in his bank….
New players, players that took their time will never be able to catch up and can’t keep up.
I can’t buy anything from the gemstore, although I want flutes and kites and black lion keys, but I simply don’t have the money for it. If it was 1g for 100 gems, I could afford that. But it’s not.
The economy is F-2-the-K-ed, just like in GW1, it will never get fixed.
[morganfreemanasluciasfox]And your solution is to cause the economy to destabilize even further? Let me know how that goes.[/morgangfreemanasluciasfox]
What kind of ally takes your ancestral land away from you by force if you already made a huge sacrifice to give up Ascalon, their ‘ancestral land’?
What “Ancestral Land” are you talking about? Orr isn’t the ancestral home of any of the nations on the Tyria right now. Stragglers and refuges need to stand up and be counted before we can possibly claim that the Orrian culture isn’t dead. So far, they’re keeping quiet. If they existed, they should have been the FIRST Living Story, not a forgotten footnote.
I’m sure the Order of Whispers wouldn’t let it happen. They are already behind the main political events.
Unimportant and irrelevant. The OoW isn’t a factor here. Unless we see a plotline or event that indicates that the OoW is taking a side in this issue, they aren’t. They’re going to sit on their tails and watch. It’s what they’re good at.
Charrs aren’t that kittened. They won’t do it. Claiming some ‘filthy faraway human soil plagued with their gods’, won’t happen. This wold be the most illogical thing to happen in the lore, ever.
I’m going to chalk this up to brain-eating parasites. You look like you’re quoting someone, but I’ve never seen this quote in the game EVER, so I think you’re just pulling it out of your kitten. The illogical thing going on here is trying to act like an expansionistic militarized people like the Charr, fractured though the Legions may SEEM, won’t look on fresh, unclaimed territory as a place where they can build a base, far from their enemies, where they can operate in safety and security to develop strategies and technology that will decimate their opponents with a minimum of casualties. HOW IS THAT NOT LOGICAL!?!?!?
Think before you open your mouth.
Charrs are in war with Flame Legion from north, branded from east, separatists from south (and within their borders) and ghosts also within. They won’t run away from this fight and will definitely not want to have Kryta attack from the West and Ascalon from the south.
My point, exactly. Orr is far removed from the fighting, and therefore from the influence of their enemies. Its a perfect location to develop new war machines and strategies. PER-FECT
Stop dreaming. Charr will have to march trough shiverpeaks for that.
Meanwhile, Palawa’s forces can simply cross scavenger causeway and consider themselves in Orr – I bet they are already dispatching that last now-uncontrolled group of Zhaitan’s risen in desert. When Pact leaves, Joko and his undead friends will be there faster than you could say “swoosh” with your tail.
If by “march” you mean “drive their machines of war” then yes, and I don’t see a problem with that. It isn’t like the Norn will view it as an act of war.
I’m still trying to grasp where people are getting that the Charr claiming Orr will be seen by ANYONE as an act of war against one of the five races. The Charr aren’t declaring war on Kryta, Ebonhawke, Rata Sum, the Grove, or Hoelbrak. Any surviving Orrians will have to speak up and make a case for reclaiming their homeland, which will require proving that they can.
people can guest to other servers to do the event. the event map is the same for all servers. i went to ET when CD was full.
go to the low populated ones. no need to be in overflow.
That might be fine, but the question is still begged, why are there overflows that are NOT running the events? If an overflow is up, it should also be running an instance of the event. It doesn’t matter if the main zone is full, if people are being put in overflows, they should be put into overflows running the event. Guesting onto another server isn’t a solution, it’s just a workaround. Workarounds should never be seen as a fix.
Charr or Asura. Sylvari? Really? Not until they provide racial skins for the turrets.
Did you now? I read your post and ‘immediately’ is nowhere to be found.
Yeah, I just noticed I was only thinking it really hard. This was immediately. And it was tonight. About 4 hours ago. Not fixed.
If it was 30 minutes, you would have a point. Sadly, you didn’t read what I said. I said it was immediately. Within moments of the event notice going up. Instant overflow, instant over overflow, and no event. That’s not right.
There wouldn’t be an argument about being kicked to Overflows, if the overflows all had the same events running. However, after porting to a zone to participate in the event, only to be dumped in an overflow, and then finding out that the event isn’t active in the overflow is annoying. Very annoying.
Saying there isn’t an argument to be made there and it’s just whining is actually just being a kitten. Stop it, Zacchaeed.
The daily achievement replaces that achievement if you can’t do it. Sorry if you WANT to do that one. Luck of the draw. The goal is just to do 17 achievements to get the meta. If you really want to do the achievement, it is luck of the draw.
And Charr hold no claim. In fact they don’t care about the land one bit. Their whole plan was just to wipe out humanity in one swift stroke and of course their gods kept aiming them to Arah, so that’s where their army went. Plus none of the Legions are in anywhere close to the shape they need to be in to hold land that far out. It’s wreckless, just like Kryta trying to get control.
I dismiss your claim that they have no claim, but I applaud you for having the ONLY well thought out reasons for them NOT wanting Orr. Good job.
As before, you are simply taking things said and reworking them to make yourself seem more clever than you are. Since you want to make it look like I’m arguing for your points in your little world, fine. I’m arguing for your points. I don’t have time to bother with you if you can’t even hold a simple conversation. Enjoy.
Except the Orrians DIDN’T abdicate their lives. One vizier cast one spell with or without the knowledge that it would destroy the nation. It wasn’t an acknowledgement of charr supremacy, it was more like the mother of all backfires.
The Vizier ruled them, or acted in the name of the ruler. That’s what a Vizier is. So they put their lives in his hands, and he killed them.
And not Supremacy, SUPERIORITY! They feared the Charr so much that they were willing to risk death (and got it) rather than submit. That’s a great honor.
You can’t have a claim to a nation that no longer exists, and claiming land only works within the context of an existing government. However, humans do have a strong claim to the things on that land, including such monuments as the cathedrals, by the dual justifications of cultural relevancy- these things are innately worth more to the humans than to any other race because of their shared history- and divine right- much of the architecture of Orr seems to have come from the gods themselves, and humans are their chosen people.
If the nation no longer exists, then one can claim anything one wants. It’s up to someone to come up with a better claim, and as the human gods vacated Orr long ago, they don’t have the better claim. Sorry.
Lol. if your gonna be my personal spell checker, your going to be REAL busy.
I was actually going to mention this in the last post but didn’t feel I needed to. the reason classes can be balanced (diffivult as it is already is) is because they have multiple skills that can be used to create that balance. trying to balance one skill for each that are unique and special is an illusion since so much is taken into account wen we look at balance.
So to look at “what does this add to ‘X’ class is someone chooses it?” is impracticle because you have to look at what it adds to every class. Not just one class. Now that showed a limited understanding of game balance.
Not at all. Ultimately, when balancing anything in a game, you have to look at it on a case by case basis and ask, “What does this do for this aspect of the game?” Narrowing it down to one class view on a racial is only examining one part of the issue of balance, but it is both a part of that issue, and a necessarily one at that.
To claim that to be limited understanding shows how little you understand the entire process. The process is long, and one has to look at each racial in turn and say, “Does this act like a skill the class has already? Is it a slot skill or a weapon skill? Is it normal or Elite? Should we simply cut and paste the skill over so that the balance isn’t an issue, or should we change it enough to make it feel flavorful and diverse?”
Until you examine each skill carefully, case by case, class by class, you won’t get a real understanding of how the skills interplay. Balance is a complex subject, which is why so few games get it right. They don’t take a careful enough approach to the problem and just use a broad brush to paint over the issue, usually by gimping one type of skill in favor of others.
You may have a pulse on lore and other trivial aspects of the game, but you need a few lessons on game design before you lecture me about it.
No, I was saying it wasn’t hard to Drakkon’s post. The hardest part is getting the crystal.
I liked the rabbit place, I found it before but forgot where it was lol.
I have good luck killing Skritt. They always seem to have the darn thing, but once I found it in the warren way over by the Reactor on a Chaos Beast. Weird.
first of the temples are most likely corrupt by zhietan so they most likely needs to be torn down before anyone gets promision to move in there.
the humans dont have the man power to move in there and even if they do kryta as a nation has no right to claim it in any way and saying that the queen is reltated to the orrian king is a no good else your given each monarch in europe the right to claim each trone as they are all related so nope dont work. when you go on one trone you give up the right for any other.the land will be a new nation if anything and the nation will be mixed in some way as i can not see humans even trying to keep them out without coursing a world war.
And this is exactly why the humans CAN’T have Orr. The humans who originally lived there are all dead. The humans who exist in Tyria today are not Orrian. There are no humans who have claim to Orr.
The next strongest claim is that of the race that inspired the Orrian’s to abdicate their very lives: the Charr. Since the Charr are the same people who existed back when the Vizier sank Orr into the sea, minus the Flame Legion, who have been cast out, they have a strong claim by way of conquest. And if they intend to settle Orr, who’s going to stop them? They’re the only race outside of the Asura who know how to live off barren land, and the Asura aren’t war-like enough to fight them over it.
After that, the next strongest claim would have to be the Sylvari because they stand the greatest chance of reviving the land and bringing it back to bloom quickest. Plus they really need something more than sharing the territory of the Asura.
A lot of female charr players want their armour to be more feminine. It’s why you see so many female charr and asura running around in the TA armour – because the male version looks like a dress.
[Citation Required] Pulling “statistics” out of your kitten doesn’t improve your story. Qualatative Hyperbole like “A lot of” doesn’t mean that you’re right if you can’t back that up with a credible source for numbers. I’m not seeing a reason not to play a female charr because of the armor. I have a female charr character and I love her the way she is. I also have two male Charr, and I would prefer they didn’t have clipping issues with their tails, but they’re fine, too.
At some point there has to be a compromise between what is practical and what players want. There is a reason that boob plate armour exists, and it’s not because it’s practical.
Boob Plate exists to accomodate Boobs. kittens. Breasts. Charr females don’t have them. Not as huge as human females, anyway. No big boobs making a female top-heavy, no need for boob plate. Moving on.
But yeah, ArenaNet can’t complain about the charr being unpopular when all the armour in the game was designed for human body types. Unless you’re a heavy charr, your options are slim, and if you’re a medium charr… well good luck. Trenchcoats look awful on charr and the clipping issues show that almost no effort was put into making the armour fit the race – especially when it’s racial armour.
Trenchcoats do NOT look awful on anyone. The stretched textures look horrible on them, but they model, aside from the clipping tail, are very stylish. Some of them have some nice non-blurry low-rez textures.
When new armour comes out I really hope ArenaNet stops trying to fit charr into the mold of the humans and starts designing armour specifically for the charr. If the achievement point armour is anything to go by though, it’s time to reroll. It’s going to get a lot worse from here. I recently made the painful decision to reroll my charr ranger simply because I got kitten ed off with every armour set in the game looking like crud on him and being limited to a handful of options.
Good luck with your re-rolls. Stop trying to change a race you’re no longer interested in playing. We like them the way they are. Minds… not changing here.
Oola’s Lab… WORTHLESS. After you talk to the idiot who is trying to get into it, the crytal to open the door is almost always on one of the next ten things you kill. Really, you won’t even know you picked it up unless you look through your bags for things to recycle/salvage as often as I do. There’s no fanfaire about it.
Go back, use it to open the door, walk in, die. There are fifty indestructible turrets in there that fire on you as you move throught he lab, can shoot through walls, and prevent you from leaving combat. High vitality, toughness, and +healing a bonus. Regen items a plus. And all for one chest and a few lore books scattered around.
Have fun.
sigh Really? With 8 classes and 5 races, you can conceive of a situation that you can manufacture where a SPECIFIC race/class combo will be optimal? ///
Really. It is common among many games and mid/maxers in those games. because any diffrence in variety will have their own benefits and draw backs. It’s universal law. So the only way for abilities to be different but equal is for them to be the same abilities with different skins. So that is exactly what a-net intended to avoid.
I reject your reality and substitute my own. Also, the term is “min/maxer” and difference has another ‘e’ in it.
I discredit your opinion by pointing out that game balance involves creating different options that are neither more powerful than, nor weaker than, each other. Taken to the lowest common denominator, it’s Rock/Paper/Scissors. A>B>C>A. Racials don’t have to be more powerful than Class abilities, they just have to be different. And they don’t have to be the same as one another, either. They just have to counter/buff/produce a different result than one another. They one thing they CAN’T be is reskins of one another. That would be unbalanced, which is pretty much what we have now.
Your limited concept of game balance would make completely irrelevant in all situations the choice of both race and class. Nothing would matter, in the slightest, because every class and race would just be reskins of one another.
Speaking from experience, as I have and play 7 of the 8 classes, they all play differently. They are most assuredly NOT reskins of one another. The fundamentals are mostly the same, as they should be, but they have distinctions that make them different and that adds flavor.
Now, the solution is to look at the racials from a “what does this add to ‘X’ class is someone chooses it?” standpoint. When the racials become part of the design process and are looked at as an option for every class, as they should be, one can begin to balance them so that they aren’t specifically good for one particular class over another, and that one race doesn’t become the goto race for a particular class.
It is worth noting at this point that there are goto races in the game already. Charr and Asura Engineers, Human Mesmers, Sylvari Necros, Norn Rangers and Guardians. These are just a few of the race/class combos that work REALLY well. I’ve seen more of them than practically anything else. Balanced racials might break some of these combos up.
And what would they do with a sea? Trade with angry humans in Cantha, Kryta and Elona?
Source?
This would definitely start a war for orr and Ascalon.
Source?
And about your immigration topic:
Norn is a proud race, which was driven back once, and won’t leave their land again.
Charrs are tied to their Legions, and unless the legions caim Orr, that won’t happen. Gladiums will most likely go to LA not Orr. If they want to set foot in Orr, that’s a Tyrian world war.
Asuras are smart enough to not to do this.
Sylvari race isn’t a conqueror one.
Counterpoint:
Norn: Orr isn’t cold enough for them. They’d have no direct interest in it unless there was something there the Spirits directed them to control, which isn’t likely. Queue Doffenschmirtz’s Leastlikelyinator.
Charr: Tried to take it once. The Legions might decide to finish the job, seeing as it isn’t actually controlled by anyone, and they are a militaristic expansionist race. Of all the races on Tyria, besides humans, the Charr are the MOST likely to try and take Orr, and have the least reasons not to.
As for your poorly conceived logic, Gladium don’t care about the consequences of their actions. They’re Honorless. That’s the point of being a Gladium. They wouldn’t care if they started a war, which wouldn’t happen because no one would care about a couple individuals moving into a bunch of ruins.
Humans: There isn’t any one nation on Tyria that can directly colonize Orr at the moment. Kryta is involved with the fight against the Aetherblades, and unless the fight leads to Orr, they won’t have the resources to deal with it. Likelwise their fight with the Centaur tribes, Bandits, and the brokering of the peace deal between Ebonhawke and the Black Citadel in Ascalon.
We don’t know what’s up with Cantha, but this seems unlikely, though more likely than either DR or LA. I’d personally lay even odds between the Charr and the Canthas.
Elona? Yeah, haven’t heard anything from these guys since we killed a god and made a new one. IIRC, they’re on a very different coast from Orr, though, so less likely to be interested in Orr than Cantha.
Asura: Expansionists, but not militaristically, like the Charr. These guys are economic expansionists, so they wouldn’t colonize Orr themselves, but if someone else was doing it, they would come along for the ride. The Inquest would set up a secret base there, no doubt, to study the residual magical influence of the Gods, but they wouldn’t colonize Orr. They would just kill anyone who tried because they would be getting too close to their secret base.
Sylvari: Three words: Aggressively Invasive Plants. One word: Kudzu. Maybe not the main Sylvari race, but the Nightmare Court would certainly take advantage of a new place to germinate and grow, and then the Pale Tree would send her Valiants to Orr to fight them.
One way or another, nature abhors a vacuum. Any place left fallow for too long will attract someone to it. If Orr isn’t colonized by one of the five main races, it will be taken over by the Krait, Karka or someone else.
This is an ancient human land, Pact is a bunch of good-doers who always return everything to the former owners. Humans will have it. But not in GW2, so it’s a bit pointless to discuss.
Nothing is pointless to discuss, but if you’re disinterested in discussion, stop poking your nose into the discussion. There’s little point to telling people to stop talking about something that clearly has a chance of being part of the new direction, post Personal Story. Just because you can’t see it doesn’t mean that it isn’t there.
ANet tracks which maps we’ve done (They need to for the Achievement), yet doesn’t display this to the user.
Poor UI design, plain and simple.
I have the same complaint about killing types for the daily. I’d like to know what “type” I’m missing so I can hunt it down. I’d like to know which field I’m missing so I can go there and complete it. Is it so hard to put a little more info into the tooltip?
Killing Deadeye repeatedly earning over 20 gold an hour is excessive. As I mentioned before, look what they did with Subject 7.
And they nerfed Subject 7 yet took well over a week to nerf Deadeye. I wonder why.
Also, you once again haven’t answered my question – “What do you expect?” You really expect me to say “I’ve farmed 10g. Let me hold back and not farm 20.”
Really? Really?
Certainly not. You don’t seem like you have any self-restraint.
The only way to make racial abilities equal with class abilities is to give every race the same abilities with a different skin. Otherwise, they racial ability will have clear advantages and disadvantages in different situations, making the race go-to depending on what your doing.
sigh Really? With 8 classes and 5 races, you can conceive of a situation that you can manufacture where a SPECIFIC race/class combo will be optimal? Because I can conceive that ANet is smarter than that. They can make the racials equal to the class abilities to add flavor without making any race a goto. Of course, I can also conceive of ways they can royally kitten it to kitten and back. Case in point, the “gauntlet”. Total clusterkitten of a coding job. So you might have a point. Maybe Anet just isn’t up tot he task of designing racials that don’t suck.
As keeps getting pointed out, they can be equal to class abilities, so long as they aren’t superior to them, and they won’t make any one race the goto race for a class, or better than the others. Certain options will be opened by bringing them in line with the class abilities, but they can be buffed without making them too shiny. This thread appears on the Charr board, too, and I’m fairly certain thakittens probably on every race’s board, though I don’t follow more than Asura and Charr. Honestly, if there is this much discussion about it here, there should be a response from a mod/dev already, even if just to say they’re looking into it and will announce something soon.
Yeah, this should probably get an update. It’s not even as good as the Charrzooka.
As I suggested, ALL the racial slot skills and elites should be looked at to bring them in line with, but not superior to, the class skills. They can add flavor without overpowering the class skills, which is why they were weakened in the first place. They can be as good as without making any one race be a goto race for a given class. They really should be adding that across the board fun for people who play a race over a class in this game. Right now, they’re hit or meh.
Just a heads up; if you are about to fail a gauntlet challenge and go to the character selection screen, you will occasionally appear by the Ringmaster. Sometimes you’ll be downed, sometimes you won’t. It can save a little bit of time if your computer loads the map quickly.
This is possibly the stupidest thing I’ve heard anyone suggest. They should have made the Gauntlet have a separate instance area with a spectator area that can see all six arenas, instead of suspending them over explorable areas where zerging is going on. It’s just ridiculous.
Why is it, the moment I learn of a way to make gold, on my trip to get my precursor… It gets nerfed!
“Finally time to start running COF P1!”
NEEERRFFED
“Time to zerg around and farm champion centaurs!”
NEEERRRFFFEEED
“Time to kill Deadeye!”
NEEEERRFED!I just want to cry…
And yet, I read:
“Time to flood the economy with gold!”
NERFED!
“Time to flood the economy with gold!”
NERFED!
“Time to flood the economy with gold!”
NERFED!
I see a pattern there. Do you see the pattern? ANet does. That’s why they keep nerfing the farms. Figure it out, stop exploiting the game, and maybe they’ll stop nerfing the content. Otherwise you have no one to blame but yourself when they end up nerfing GW2 into WoW.
Well that’s untrue, some racials are actualy quite usefull, for instance :
- the Charr Warband support isn’t very tough overall, but they do have utilities worth for you to pick them up. You get an extra cripple and 3 stacks of might from the Melee NPC while the ranged one has a mine with a 4sec Hardknock (and its an AoE).
- The Charrzooka is a pretty strong ranged weapon. The auto attack while weak is more about stacking burning in duration, but you get loads of interupts, and a powerfull AoE.
- The Schrapnel mine is also very good, it is a low cooldown trap with long duration bleeds and 5sec cripple.
I think the race with the worst racial abilities are probably the Norns, sinds transformation abilities are quite broken in this game. And the one with the strongest one are probably the Azuras and Sylvaris, if you exclude the Hazmat Suit of course.
Warband: Not as useful to my Engineer as Supply Drop. Switched it out as soon as I got Supply Drop and haven’t looked back. They’re so soft and squishy.
Charzooka: Worse than my Flamethrower. Better range, but horrible damage. It just can’t compete. An Elite that fails next to a Utility. That’s epic. Epic failure.
Shrapnel Mine: Ugh. I hate mines on general principle, but this one at least has nice conditions with it. I can’t complain about its worthlessness, because I don’t use it, but it suffers from all the same problems that dropping something at my feet always suffers from: The enemy isn’t on fire before they start beating on me.
As for the Norn, I like Summon Wurm, Summon Raven, and I have found the Wolf Transform occasionally (read: HIGHLY SITUATIONAL) useful. I haven’t built my Norn up to the point where he has a lot of skill points to open most of his abilities, so I haven’t tried them all.
Same for my Asura, but like I said, the Radiation Field is about the only one I think I would ever use, and I think Ihave already replaced it with Signets and Glyphs. My Asura is an Elementalist, so that is a big factor.
Charr should want to colonize Orr.
Ascalon is landlocked. If the Charr took over Orr, they will be able to open up ports and begin ruling the seas.Those kities don’t even like water. It should be quaggans. And shookooshoo the incredible will host shows every day there.
Cool story, bro…
Wait… what?
Charr don’t like water? Says who?
Says Rytlock (read edge of destiny)
He didn’t even know how to swim at the beginning.
“Rytlock can’t swim, so no Charr can swim.” Logical falacy. My Charr swim quite well. In fact I enjoy swimming a lot. Not that swimming has anything to do with CONQUERING ORR.
The Charr tried it once, and it scared the weak and pathetic humans so much they sank the island rather than submit. If the humans can’t/won’t take back Orr, then the Charr have the right, duty, and destiny to do so. Swimming doesn’t even factor in.
Racials suck. Period. Radiation Field is the only one I have much use for, and half the high end mobs dash out of it as soon as it goes down, so there goes that theory.
What ANet should have done, instead of making racials suck is make them equal to any other trait, elite or non-elite, so that they would’t create a preference. Instead of making them the clear loser, they should have made them all contenders, but not superior. That would have given people more reasons to chose their races effectively.
Charr should want to colonize Orr.
Ascalon is landlocked. If the Charr took over Orr, they will be able to open up ports and begin ruling the seas.Those kities don’t even like water. It should be quaggans. And shookooshoo the incredible will host shows every day there.
Cool story, bro…
Wait… what?
Charr don’t like water? Says who?
Maybe I shouldn’t have used the Hello Kitty Online part, but I still stand by my point. To change the armor or to even suggest that it be changed IS stupid from the established lore aspect of the game. And considering more people like the fact that charr armor is the same for both male and female, it’s safe to say that gender different armor is in the minority and should be all together ignored.
Whoa, there. Just because you’re correct in your estimation tht the u8ndifferentiated armor is the preferred style for the Charr, from both an aestetic and a lore standpoint, doesn’t mean that the opinions that vary from that should be ignored. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, which is neither right nor wrong. Your opinion is, in fact, the only thing in this life you ARE entitled to. It should not be ignored, even if you don’t agree with someone else. I don’t agree with his opinions, but at least my discussion with him has been about his logic, not that he holds the opinions, and I while I might have claimed he should drop his suggestions, I have never said his opinion should be ignored. His logic is flawed, but he is allowed to feel as he wishes.
Having an opinion is fine. Wishing that opinion would make a change that the vast majority of people would hate? Not fine. It irritates me to no end when people want to kitten all over a game’s lore just because of a personal preference. If they want that, then they can go make their own game, the way they want it to be made. Until then, deal with the lore or gtfo.
ANet won’t change the game based on a minority opinion that makes no sense, has no basis in lore, and has little support from only a fringe of people at the edge. There’s no reason to get that bent out of shape about a game.
Please, calm down. People are getting way too excited about something this inconsequential. It’s a game. Relax. Lives don’t depend on it.
Jeez, I can’t believe I’m the voice calling for calm.
I have three Charr:
Moody Madeye, Centurion of the Iron Legion Eye Warband,
Palak Warmaster, Centurion of the Blood Legion Master Warband, and
Kailan Hiddenpaw, Legionaire of the Ash Legion Hidden Warband.
During the speech, Logan will give birth to hundreds of mini queen jenna’s and the minis will walk toward 1 year old players.
Fix’d
Careful. If any of the loretrolls read this, they’ll make a federal case out of it. They already got on me for questioning his masculinity, and I didn’t go so far as to genderswap him.
I didn’t genderswap him. I just implied he’ll give birth.
Arnold Schwarzenegger gave birth once.
Point. Ok.
During the speech, Logan will give birth to hundreds of mini queen jenna’s and the minis will walk toward 1 year old players.
Fix’d
Careful. If any of the loretrolls read this, they’ll make a federal case out of it. They already got on me for questioning his masculinity, and I didn’t go so far as to genderswap him.
and show attitudes that lead to great harm for many people of any gender and sexual orientation.
Show demonstrable harm. Hyperbole is one thing, but if you’re going to make a criminal act out of it, I require you to show the demonstrable harm here. Otherwise, ratchet your rhetoric back down a little, put on your big boy pants and stop taking forum comments personally.
I’m only mocking imaginary entities that are poorly written, badly actualized, and reflect the worst stereotypical traits of the melodramatic genre. The only insult is the poor writing put into the pair and the way they’ve been inflicted upon us. Your mileage my vary.
logan shall be friendzoned.. and i shall laugh
He already has been. Logan isn’t a Human. He’s an oversized puppy dog. Jennah treats him like a cherished pet, not a lover or potential husband. He’s the biggest sword-wielding puppy in the game, and that includes the Wolfborn Norn.
And “questioning” anyone’s “masculinity” is STILL a jerk move. As I have said before on these forums, no one gets to deny another’s gender identity, period. You’re not a shred “more of a man” for marching in lockstep with a toxic status quo, and not a shred less for “failing” to.
You can call it “bickering” and be “amused” by it, but it doesn’t change that it was you who used these degrading gender-stereotyping terms that only serve to perpetuate the old attitudes of woman/gay = bad/inferior. “Archaic” those terms may be, but the attitudes are very much alive, and they cause a whole bloody lot of harm to many people.
Call Logan a traitor or obsessive or in need of growing up and getting a grip of his hormones, and I’d even agree with you. But every time a man or male character is called a pansy or sissy or nancy or a skirt or p-whipped little b-word, I wince at the sheer amount of contempt it implies for both genders.
“Getting a grip on his hormones” is fine to point out, but “called a pansy or sissy or nancy…I wince”…
Wow. I’m not certain you get how stupid that sounds. You’re saying the exact same thing, just using a different turn of phrase and it’s fine, but using blunt language is bad. “Get a grip on your hormones” is just another way of saying “Stop being a v*****.” At least I had the decency not to be so crude, but you just said that you would agree with me for saying the same thing I just said, after degrading me for saying it.
I don’t think I’m the one out of step here.
And Logan is a whining little emo brat. Jennah has emasculated him completely, and he’s fine with that. He’s happier being emo than he is consummating his romantic dreams with her. All she had to do was admit she had feeling for him, too, and he’s suddenly walking on air, at her beck and call, and can get back to killing Elder Dragons, but he still is a pansy nancy boy. That’s just how he’s written. You can not like me for pointing it out, but you can’t say I’m wrong. Sorry.
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