Guild Wars 2

Brutalistik.6473:

Guys I don’t think we need to go into depths about a simple discussion about a norn fighting a charr. It all depends how the fight goes and from what I remember norn has more brute strength than a charr, but charr has the advantages due to claws. It will be a close fight and one will come out victor while both will be incredibly injured or dead due to too much damage intake/ loss of blood. Pretty much a double K.O

The problem is that the initial argument over Norn v Charr is just ridiculous. There isn’t an answer that anyone will accept.

The conversation about how Charr walk is much more interesting, except Leo has no idea how anatomy actually works. He’s picking a fight on a topic I know quite well, have experimented with (I cosplay, thank you very much), and I know a lot more about digitgrade stances than he does. If I really want to know how a cat walks, I’ll just watch Tiger, the American Shorthair my housemate has. He walks all over my computer while I’m typing. I’m well versed in how he walks, where he puts his weight (because he walks on us when he’s looking for attention), and I can feel exactly what part of his paw he’s putting his weight on, and it’s the big fat pad on the bottom of his paw, NOT his toes. In fact, the only time he puts his weight to his toes is when he’s taking a swipe at my dog, who also walks on the pads of his feet, not his toes (though you wouldn’t know it from how much they clack on the floor when he walks because they’re getting a bit long).

Because of his lack of understanding, I don’t even want to begin tying this back into the initial discussion by adding into the anatomy lesson the concepts of muscle insertion points, fast-reflex vs slow-reflex muscles, and basic joint leverage mechanical advantages. Anyway, I’m mostly just monitoring the conversation at this point for glaring inaccuracies or horrible logic.

Brutalistik.6473:

I think you need to think outside the box for a bit. I’m not wrong nor completely off-base. You could say you just disagree with my idea which would of been more appropriate to say than what you just said. What I don’t understand or whats in your mind is how are you viewing this scenario about the change in female charr armor sets. I mean like what comes to mind when I am talking about these stuff?

Yes, wrong is the wrong word, but I am the one thinking outside the box, or, rather, I’m the one agreeing with ANet thinking outside the box. Every other game makes females of a given race different from the males, and, the same as one another. They all have human breasts, human hips, human hair, and they all look like humans in funny suits. I’ve grown very tired of it.

Neither Asura nor Charr females have human-like breasts. Asura females have better hips than males, but they aren’t exaggerated. I applaud ANet for taking the risk on creating the Charr and Asura and making them different from humans.

The Sylvari are human-like Barbies. Females have fictional breasts, males are like Ken dolls. Generic, inside the box, but at least they have a lore-based reason to be pseudo-asexual.

Norn are just big muscular humans. Inside the box thinking at it’s worst.

So I prefer the Charr and Asura, and the Char in particular. If I wasn’t so invested, time-wise in my Norn, Human and Sylvari characters, I would re-roll all of them as Charr. And I want to experience their racial stories.

But as for the armor, I have issues with the armor for Charr that have nothing to do with sexual dimorphism. On that front, they are perfectly suited, and their suits are perfect. I agree to disagree with you.

Let’s forget about this lore cultural nonsense for a bit and think about the video game itself. Do you think GW2 would keep everything the same within the next 5 years with female charrs / asura having the same armor sets as the males?

You’re not a GW1 player, are you?

Trust me my discussion will be brought up numerous of times by others if nothing had change by then. This could be the exact reason why not many players play the charr race nor the asura a lot. Majority of the people wouldn’t care about the lore anyway because what they want is diverse and visualization.

Sadly, for your argument, these are the exact reasons I like playing the Charr and Asura. Saying I would quit playing if they changed them to make them less different from other races holds no weight, since there’s no subscription to actually cancel, but symbolically, I would prefer not to quit playing if they did something as stupid as make the Charr females look more human-like. It would lose a lot of the flavor and uniqueness that is part of the attraction to play GW2, even if every race isn’t for everyone.

To put this on the other foot, how about they change the Norn, Sylvari and Humans to be less human-like because too many people are playing them? Sounds like a ridiculous argument, doesn’t it? It’s actually similar to what you’re proposing, and it will kitten off players who play the Asura and Charr for their unique flavor.

dunnberry.2964:

Assassination of Jennah 2013! More likely to happen

Isn’t Thackery emo enough? Do we really need to create a new evil from a former hero? We just got him back into Destiny’s Edge. I, for one, really don’t want to see another cliche former-good-guy-turned-evil-overlord-because-of-girlfriend’s-death.

Brutalistik.6473:

What the heck are you guys talking about? Big boobs and cultural stuff? I’m just saying they should have different armor sets from the males than being the same.

And I’m saying that you’re wrong. Not only isn’t it appropriate from a physiological stance, it is also culturally wrong for the Charr. There aren’t any reasons for the Charr to make differentiated armor for males and females, which allows them to mass produce their armor because one type fits all. Limited/no dimorphism means that customizations aren’t required. That suits a military-minded race perfectly.

Simply put, there’s nothing for you to make look different, because physically there are no differences to accentuate/compensate for. Respectfully, for the Charr at least, you’re completely off-base.

The weight of the cat is still behind the toes, not on them. All that weight rests on the pad, not the toe tips. You’re still failing to make your point, here. All your evidence supports my statements.

Trabia.3650:

You still don’t get it, do you? The Gauntlet is a boss rush mode. It is single-player content. I wish to play it at my own leisure, without queues (or a paywall for that matter).

The gauntlets are behind both a queue and a paywall. You need tickets to get into them, and you get said tickets from doing non-Gauntlet things. So not only will you have to stop doing the Gauntlet when you might be in a groove and moving through it well, but you also have to queue up repeatedly for each fight. Waste of time and more time.

Has ANet not figured out we’re not going anywhere? They don’t have to put artificial timesinks into the game to get us to keep playing. In fact, most of us would play more if they weren’t wasting so much of our time. The one upside in getting tickets, at least, is that you can do the escort quests fairly quickly. One of the two in a zone is almost always running. But it would still be better if there wasn’t a need for tickets.

And in writing this post, I realized why there are tickets. They force people to leave what would be an overcrowded location to go out and get more tickets, lightening the load on the area and enabling queues to be shorter.

Clever girl.

I think the Asura primarily use spiders. Could be wrong. I want to get another copy of the game just to make a ranger of every race. Rangers are fun. Engi’s are a lot of fun, too.

9.6/10 That’s a Charr’s name! I’d love me a fiery sword, too, but I honestly never got tot he Hall of Monuments to fully open my rewards. I should, I know, but GW2 is so much better than GW1 that I just don’t find myself with the time to do it.

I’ll put out one of my other Charr since I’ve been playing him more: Palak Warmaster of the Master Warband. Palak’s a M/Sh – S/T Guardian. Heavy Support/Healer.

You know something I’d like to know? What armor is “the Blacksmith” wearing when you meet him at Howl’s grave? I’d love to find it, but it doesn’t seem to show in Argos Soft database of armors. Maybe I’m mis-remebering it.

Leo G.4501:

Technically, you’re false. “Balls of your feet” is just an idiom. There is no actual anatomic structure call ‘ball’. If we’re getting technical, they are metatarsus joints but if we’re using layman’s terms to describe it, I don’t see much difference in calling it ‘balls of the feet’ and ‘toes’ in that respect.

FALSE!

After a little research, you are incorrect. The ball of the foot is the point on the bottom of your foot (the part that corresponds to the palm, not the fingers) where, if you place your weight forward of it, you are putting your weight on your toes, and if you put your weight behind it, you’re putting pressure on your heel. Literally put, it is the balance point for the foot, but does not, specifically, define standing on one’s toes. It is typically characterized by the large round muscular mass behind the big toe, from which it draws it’s name. In felines, this area is specifically the pad of the foot. This is where the weight of the cat rests, and not on the toes. Toes are for balance, quick changes in direction, and for getting a better grip on a surface. They are not, even in felines, load bearing.

They are NOT standing on their toes.

Generic response dismissing your claims as childish and making some vague reference about your masculinity and calling into question your mother’s dating habits.

Ehecatl.9172:

yski.7642:

Interestingly enough, most of the war technology used by Pact against Zhaitan (and the mist war golems for that matter) seem to be asuran technology rather than charr made. Just saying

Begone from here short one. Your inferior technology is not welcome.
But yes, charr are the most technologically advanced race. Asura don’t technically use science, they use magic. In everything. They’ve never attempted to build or invent something without magic. So everything they have is magitech, but not true technology.
In fact there are asuran NPCs in Black Citadel that flat out can’t understand how charr technology even works without magic. That should be pretty telling right there.

Magic and technology are the same thing. Magitech and cybertech and mechanotech and anyothertech are all interchangeable. They’re just new ways of doing the same thing. It seems clear that if the Asura can’t figure out how the Charr tech works, then it’s a completely radical form of technology, but that doesn’t mean it’s inherently superior.

Brutalistik.6473:

Whenever they want to focus on the asura and charr models for armor or if they got time. They really need to have different armor sets for the asura and charr females. Regardless of their anatomy it should be a bit diverse between the two genders because every other race besides those 2 have different set armors for each gender. That’s their first step into versatility and then they can focus on armor clipping issues, animation and just plain better looking armors for the 2 races.

I disagree on the Charr front. The Charr don’t differentiate their genders like other races. There are few physical differences, no large blobs of clingy fat to work around, no real difference in leg mass, arm mass, or even head mass. Aside from a set or two of horns and lion-tuft vs all-fuzzy tail, there is little to set them apart, and the Charr reflect that in their armor. Both genders go to war, both can be heavy warriors or light casters, and everything in between, and so they present the most unified military front of any race in the game. They easily accomplish the goal of making all their soldiers look alike, which is the meaning of the word ‘uniform’. I don’t want, nor see a need for, any changes in armor based on gender.

Tony said it best: “Oh, my god, you’re a female! I honestly didn’t know. But I suppose that’s what we’ve been working towards, isn’t it? Now that I know, I honestly can’t stop looking at you. You have really well defined cheek bones.”

Of course, Vasquez and Hudson also seem to have the best exchange about it a decade and change earlier: “Hey, Vasquez, have you ever been mistaken for a man?” “No, have you?”

Of course, the very differences, or lack-thereof, that attract me to the Charr are probably the same things that are off-putting to a number of younger players who aren’t prepared to look at anything that doesn’t have huge bubbly breasts. I don’t know, as I can only speak for myself, and I like the Charr. I have three of them. And one of every other race. Had I the ability, I’d play a few more Asura, too. I like the little sociopathic egomaniacs.

Loso.6803:

Eviscer.8930:

Sorry, forgot to rate Cruxie… 7/10, because it looks cool on paper, but I’m not sure how to pronounce it.

Her name is pronounced like “croo-she-eh” spoken quickly.

I was seeing “CRUCK-see”.

Thanx for the necropost, clock. The devs have said before, pics so they can see what’s wrong. Nothing in this thread, so probably not going to get fixed. But feel free to keep uselessly complaining and necroing this post.

BTW, if you’re complaining that your head isn’t on your neck at times, it’s because it isn’t. The head is a separate object from the body, and the neck is only drawn in after both are rendered. A better solution to your issue would probably be getting a decent graphics card that can keep up with the rendering better and/or a faster internet connection to keep up with the servers.

Try the support or bugs forum, too, because the Asura form isn’t for this sort of thing.

Electro.4173:

Its free for players, but various NPC conversations seem to suggest its not free lore-wise. Aside from this one, I mean.
There’s an Asura and a Charr talking about gate travel in the gate hub of Lion’s Arch, and the Charr asks why it costs extra for oversized items (which implies that it costs anything at all in the first place) and the Asura offers free gate travel if the Charr provides a lifetime of free rifles “to protect her gate from freeloaders”.
There’s also an NPC in Lion’s Arch near the Gendarran Fields transition that mentions the cost of travel and suggests that maybe flashing the gatekeeper her most dashing smile would reduce the price, to which another NPC says “it’d be double, then”.

“I got a discount on account of my imposing demeanor.” indeed. I suppose when one holds the unstable elemental forces of the universe at one’s fingertips people naturally afford one much latitude.

Bathos.6341:

It’s a Theam park all right, unfortunately it seems to have gone Westworld on us!

+1’d for ancient movie reference (which I saw when it first came out… (god, I’m old…))

Leo G.4501:

But none of it matters to me. I’m not one to laud over a specific race. But if we’re talking about equality of the race specialties and flaws, it makes sense a Charr would be less physically comparable to a Norn because Norn do not band together in armies while the Charr do and Norn are the most behind in technological advancements while the Charr are tied as the most technologically advanced.

Then this should have been asked in the Lore forum and not the Charr forum. The Charr rule here, meat, and pro-Norn attitudes will not prevail. We will, however, allow you to retreat from this battle and lick your wounds. You fought well.

yski.7642:

Drakkon.4782:

Approaches, but never reaches. The derived equations for probability show that there will never be a statistical chance of 0. Are you willing to risk our secrets in the hands of bookah? I’m not. If the fools on the Arcane Council are willing to put our most advanced secrets in the hands of bookah, then I believe it’s time to consider alternative governance.

It’s hardly relevant considering the bookahs are constantly monitored anyway. If they find something interesting, we’ll know about it, and we have the best means of utilizing whatever it is they find.
The council knows what it’s doing when it comes to manipulating bookahs, it’s the recent actions of arcane eye and the fact the council is both stubborn and corrupt that we should be worried about.

Spoken like a true sockpuppet of the Council. Asuran culture has no use for apologists.

yski.7642:

That’s what you get for not including nessessary modules to provide independant return functions on your golems. Always include a personal transportation device of some description or at least an emergency gate usage fund, I say. Statistically speaking it’s slightly cheaper than not doing so.

That being said, has anyone checked if there’s a price out for returning it? I’ve been experimenting on improved AI for my golems, and autonomous tasks like these are just what I need to gather more data.

Isn’t gate travel between cities free? Gate to LA, then to RS. Free and free. I’m beginning to smell a scambot.

SnakeOzilla.4297:

First off, you spent a lot of time writing that post.
Second, I totally agree with you I always hide the helmet because they are fugly. I also don’t really understand why medium armour is trash… seriously why am I wearing a skit all the time O_o
Overall, I can’t really complain, the Charr facial would be a animator nightmare to compensate for all the horn/facial setups. I love my Charr, but i’ll got helmetless to make him look more kitten.

1) Only the helmets that hide the horns are fugly. The others are just… meh. That isn’t a good thing, because I want my armor to pop. One of the heavy helmets looks like a baseball cap from the head-on view. WTF?
2) Medium wearers are stealth and/or skirmishers. Skirts, cloaks, long coats, and dusters all obscure the legs, waist, and lower body, making reading body language more difficult. In-game mechanics-wise, this isn’t a factor, but, aesthetically, this is why light warriors (traditionally medium armor in RPGs) wear such garb. There’s more places to hide stuff, too.

Personally, I don’t have a problem with the armors, except for the godawful tail problems. Heavy armor has a better solution to the tail hole than medium and light, though it’s not optimal.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

LOL @ some of the people in this thread: way too serious and way too bias!
I’d say they are equaled in GW2’s age and the fight could go either way. That’s basing it on the lore inside the GAME.

Exactly. Dustfinger and his pro-Norn ilk are reading far too much into the supposedly supernatural aspect of Norn physiology, and are basically equating a single Norn to Superman. If that was lore and even remotely true, why aren’t they ruling Kryta? Surely the humans can’t put up that much resistance, and conquering a nation would be both the ultimate hunt and the ultimate boasting story. But that kind of BS isn’t supported by the Lore, and even with the fanciful tall tales told during boasting matches at the Moot, no Norn could EVER back up fighting an entire Charr warband, head-on, in a straight up fight. Rhytlock would find out about the story and demand proof. The honor of the Legions would be at stake.

Charr are arguably the strongest warriors in all of Tyria. This is supported by both lore and game fact. Their strength doesn’t lie in their physical bodies, though they are powerful. It is in their ability to band together and fight as a cohesive unit. When the Charr stand together, no force in the world can oppose them. Granite walls only kept them at bay, and even the Elder Dragons couldn’t conquer them. The destroyed the human usurpers in Ascalon, struck such fear into the hearts of their enemies that one chose to kitten his entire kingdom to unending undead misery and another sank a continent into the sea to avoid being conquered. What are the Norn compared to that? Charr are boogymen. But at least their on your side, for now.

One on one, the game, the lore, and the mechanics all say the fight is even. No one race has an advantage over the others that isn’t countered or offset by the advantages of the other races. Personal biases aside, not even the flights of fancy written by people who work for ANet are support for one race being superior in a one on one fight.

But as a whole, Norn are drunken louts who would rather embellish their stories with grandiose exaggerations, and Charr don’t fight alone, so a one on one fight between a Charr and a Norn will never happen (at least outside of the Bane). If a Norn is foolish enough to fight an entire Warband, may the Spirits have mercy on his, for the Charr will have none. Scorch him.

Kiono.6187:

auratus.9854:

Poor cat, dont compare cats with Charr…

“The charr—an aggressive feline race”

Quoted from GW2 themselves. Though not exactly like a domestic house cat, they are felines regardless. And even big cats don’t enjoy water too much.

Big cats, except lions, who arguably have little experience with it, love water. Tigers swim eagerly. They just don’t like water sprayed at their faces. House cats tend to avoid entering water unless entering it is required, as they are not strong swimmers, nor are they particularly buoyant.

Compound names are usually warband indicators. Part of the name is the warband’s name, combined with a personal addition. You’re talking about a single “first name”, so it probably won’t be a compound variant. Since those follow no true naming conventions, just avoid the trite notion of using a compound word as a name. For that, Ryld would be fine. Kras, Fina, Tybalt, Kerral. All fine gladium names, you honorless cur.

WyldKat.4712:

VOLTRON! Imagine 5 asura combining their power suits into something unstoppable.

And I’ll form the head!

Requiem.8769:

Drakkon.4782:

And risk allowing the glory of an astounding breakthrough in Thaumechanics be made by a lesser mind?! NEVER!

I would not fear that. The likelihood approaches zero.

Approaches, but never reaches. The derived equations for probability show that there will never be a statistical chance of 0. Are you willing to risk our secrets in the hands of bookah? I’m not. If the fools on the Arcane Council are willing to put our most advanced secrets in the hands of bookah, then I believe it’s time to consider alternative governance.

I want to punch that bard. At least the bard got rousted, too. Poor Hobo-Tron.

Lucky.9421:

There was a section in the novel, if I recall correctly, that Rytlock launched Eir far into the air as impromptu transportation(as well as the other characters). I got the impression from that scene that he, being the Charr, was the only one with the strength to do that.

Though I think it depends on what their weapons/skills were.

And oddly, I came away from that scene thinking… “Well, the Charr are easily as strong as Norn. Take that, Eir.” Guess we all read into things what we want.

And risk allowing the glory of an astounding breakthrough in Thaumechanics be made by a lesser mind?! NEVER!

*cough*cough*

That simply isn’t the Asura way. Where would we be if we weren’t willing to throw away our lives for scientific research? Dead at that hands… err… pincers… whatever… of the Destroyers. That’s where!

Still Keil is the wrong choice for the Asura. We should have been backing Evon, as I did, to learn more about the former human gods. Who knows what new theories and paradigms we might have unlocked by simply being in their presence for five minutes? Shortsighted of the Arcane Council, as always. Fools, the whole lot.

Kajin.5301:

oh dont complain, I got 5 queen jub arena ticket on each char x-D and they account bound yupiee

Maybe you can put them in your wallet?

………………………

OMG!

I’m such a nudge. Three things contributed to that error… First, it’s the 6th here. Second, I saw the events on the main Queen’s Jubilee page and the first was one scheduled for the 5th (the Developer’s Livestream). So I thought, well, it kicked off on the 5th, oh look, it’s the 6th! WHY ISN’T THIS WORKING! Didn’t we have maintenance today? Shouldn’t it be in?

LOL. Because it isn’t the 6th at ANet, yet. DUH. Well, off to bed. I clearly need more sleep.

Not working as intended?

I’ve logged onto 3 alts so far and I had to make this third one an alt I KNOW doesn’t have a lot of Karma. Yep. Not tabulating a complete total. Hmm… First alt had PvP tokens in his bag. WT*? Wasn’t this conversion supposed to be automatic? Is it in the game now, or are we still waiting for it? Do I have to cycle through all 7 of my alts before I get a correct tally on them all?

Rondo Gearstrip
Kral Boomthumper
Trak Treadshredder
Howl Overcharge

Take your pick, I’ve got more.

Zaxares.5419:

“Asura technology is so advanced it can often seem broken!”
Yeah, I’m sure that’s the reason why your Trans-Aetheric Electro Discombobulator isn’t doing anything.

No, but I’m sure that your attitude is the reason that you’ve never gotten more than one shot off from Aetheric Overcharge Hyperlasers the Pact uses, “Commander”…

I’m PVE levelling a Guardian right now, using a primarily Zeal and Radiance build, and Mace/Shield for melee and Scepter/Torch for ranged. Works really well at level. When things get above level, then it get dicey, but that’s an armor upgrade issue for me (not an issue because I can make better than I can use for now…)

Leo G.4501:

And if a Norn stood on his tip toes too, he’d be taller than a Charr.
Charr are standing on their toes, you know this, right?

FALSE!

Charr have digitgrade legs. They are standing on the balls of their feet, not the toes. Like humans, Norn are plantigrade, resting on the entire foot, including the heel. The difference is negligible because plantigrade creatures tend to have longer thigh and shin bones, making the overall leg longer, while digitgrade creatures tend to have an elongated foot, shorter thigh and shin bones, resulting in the mistaken impression that their legs are “backward”, which the are not. The overall difference between plantigrade and digitgrade legs as a portion of the body length/height is negligible.

THEREFORE, a Charr standing on his toes would still come to the same relative change in height as a Norn doing the same.

ButterOfDeath.2873:

I guess an “of course because all Asurans are geniuses!” would suffice as explanation…without all that effort to make an exuberant message x)

If you wanted a short answer, bookah, you probably should have asked a Skritt. It isn’t in our nature to answer questions in a sloppy or haphazard manner. There are far more variables and parameters than most people realize when they ask something, and it is completely without conscience to simply answer a question… err… simply. Just because you didn’t understand what you were actually asking when you posited your query doesn’t mean we should treat the inquiry with the same level of callousness.

Honestly, its because of this inability to be so circumspect that I have serious doubts that you bookah can be trained, much less actually educated. I have higher hopes for teaching a Kodan how to play cards. They jut don’t seem to grasp the concept of bluffing…

ButterOfDeath.2873:

On the verge of a breakthrough!
Really,does that flip only me?
Whenever you greet an Asura,you’ll either hear “Excelsior!” or that phrase…
Being succesfull seems to be an asura’s given x)

What a bookah. Of course we’re all on the verge of a breakthrough! We’re all geniuses (though, I’m by far more gifted than anyone else, except maybe Zojja…) compared to your bookah, and it is only to be expected that we will make a new breakthrough at any moment. I don’t expect you to understand (anything), so it comes as no surprise to me that you aren’t capable of grasping this elementary concept.

By the way, “Excelsior” does not mean what you appear to think it means. It is simply an expression of exuberance for learning. Please adjust your own reactions accordingly.

Hmm… Perhaps I should schedule time to explore new methods of educating bookah, but I’m not certain that would be a valuable use of my time. In fact, I’m almost certain it wouldn’t be.

Requiem.8769:

Drakkon.4782:

BrunoBRS.5178:

Korsbaek.9803:

Requiem.8769:

We do rule the world. The bookahs just haven’t realized it yet.

the order of whispers just makes the asura think they rule the world when the order is really rulling it from the shadows;)

what about the asuras in the order?
O_o

Asuraception. We must go deeper.

The Asura planted Asurans inside the order, to control the order, who control the Asura, who control the rest of the world. So, really, it’s just the Asura.

[facepalm.jpg]

Yes, but as it shows all of the armors, you can view them easily on one page and mix and match at will. Enjoy.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Korsbaek.9803:

Requiem.8769:

We do rule the world. The bookahs just haven’t realized it yet.

the order of whispers just makes the asura think they rule the world when the order is really rulling it from the shadows;)

what about the asuras in the order?
O_o

Asuraception. We must go deeper.

http://argos-soft.net/GW2ArmorGallery/ is your friend. You’re welcome.

foofad.5162:

Altruistic Healing is not overpowered just because a lot of people use it.

This indicates that other traits need to be buffed, actually. When a particular trait is a “go to” trait for just about every build, that means that it’s either OP (which it isn’t in this case) or other traits aren’t good enough to make them viable options over it. Looking over the options, Alt Healing is just a better trait to take. There’s no reason to select the others over it. They just aren’t good enough. Gimping the class isn’t the right answer. It’s a Mob response.
“Vinnie, I don’t like how Altrusitic Healing is so good over these other traits. Go break it’s kneecaps so the other traits don’t look so crap by comparison.”
“Right, boss.”

I pulled out my old Guardian (mostly because he’s my only heavy class and I’ve been growing tired of playing the light and medium classes), and I can’t tell what anyone here is talking about when they say Radiance and/or Zeal are bad. I’m running him with both of those, and he’s fine. Better than fine! He’s nearly unkillable. Mace/Shield is awesome for both damage and survivability. He hits with burning, regen, aegis, might, and I think I saw some swiftness occasionally proc. In PvE, he was getting Vets down to half before they started to do telling damage to him, and in PvP, switching to Scepter/Torch, he was holding his own quite nicely while kiting. I can’t see anything wrong with Radiance and Zeal. shrug Maybe I’m just playing him wrong and it’s turning out right.

Icarus Pherae.4680:

Dustfinger.9510:

It’s a puma fighting a gorilla. Puma has teeth and claws but they can’t compete with the raw strength of the gorilla.

Well I think you have it pretty well, but we should mention that the gorilla can also shapeshift into an even larger half bear creature.

Except it isn’t a puma. It’s a tiger. And that fight isn’t quite as unbalanced. Plus, the tiger already is a match for the bear, too.

Dustfinger continues to fail to cite his sources, but has asked for others to cite theirs. So long as he remains hyperbolic and rhetorical, there’s no point in not doing the same. This argument is verging quickly on being pointless without them.

I wouldn’t be surprised if a Charr flamethrower wasn’t an semi-alchemical machine using a tar elemental and a fire elemental being contained within a pair of pressure vessels. The tar elemental produces the napalm-like substance that is burned, and the fire elemental sets it on fire. It would explain why I can set things on fire for hours on end without having to reload or refuel.

However, if you run through the Norn personal story where you had a night to forget at a Moot, you lose one of their smaller runners to some Dredge, and in getting it back, its fairly obvious that the war machine is running some form of ICE, though the fuel source and the exact nature of its combustion are in question, given the magical nature of everything else in their world. I’m still betting that they fuel their war machines off captured tar elementals that they convert into some manner of petrol.

Dustfinger.9510:

I also play a charr engi and have been beat by an asura at one time or another. But I wouldn’t try to use that as a lore reason for the asura being stronger than the charr.

Seems you are, because, despite what you’re saying now, you’ve talked about things that violate established lore, and yet are supported by lore.

However, I’ve discovered several rules…

1: Norn tell stories. Most of them are BS. “Your Legend” is only as impressive as you make it sound.
2: Charr are OFFICIALLY larger than Norn, not the other way around. This has been stated several times by ANet. I can’t help it if they waffle about it because some author has a pro-Norn agenda and doesn’t want to adhere to canon.
3: Charr are all about battle, both personal and in units. Norn are not. Norn are about fighting and the hunt. They aren’t about combat so much as sparring and hunting. I wouldn’t take a hunter into a fight over a soldier. Ever. That’s common sense.

I respect your position regarding using the books as lore, but books are written by people who have a story to tell, and while I consider them canon, I don’t consider them reliable sources. Officially, I will always regard Charr as stronger because they are bred to be stronger, tougher, fiercer, quicker, and deadlier. That has been how they were originally described, written into the lore, and only later changed because it made for a more exciting story that someone wanted to sell as a book. Thus, respectfully, I will agree to disagree with you about our interpretations of our various sources on this subject.

• - “Officially” comes from an image generated by ANet, posted on GW2Guru when GW2 was just launched. This is why I state that there have been changes to the lore which differentiates the official lore from the canon lore.

And yet my Charr Engineer goes 1:1 with Norn all the time and destroys them without effort. It turns out that Norn burn just as well as every other race.

Dustfinger.9510:

A good example of Norn lore strength: Knut says he dragged the Great Wurm Isalmir back to the Great Hunt, himself.

Knut says a lot of things.

Charr are larger than Norn. They’re stronger than Norn. They’re born and bred for battle. Norn are born to hunt. There’s a difference. I’ll take a Charr every time. When my back’s to the wall, I’ll take a Charr at my side over a Norn. The only creature I’d take over a Charr would be a Kodan. But of the playable races, Charr. Every time. I don’t know where people are getting that Norn are bigger and stronger than Charr. The lore clearly contradicts that. Charr are the fiercest creatures playable.