Guild Wars 2

Well, was kind of expecting this. They’ve got big mess to clean up, and I doubt they were focusing much on balance due to the PAX tourney, so they’re likely using this time to examine the way the game is played.
That said, I’m not expecting the drought to end with a massive patch.

You may want to look into the Polymock Arena. It sounds similar to this. Just wish tje devs would finish it.

I usually sell off unneeded mats I gather (usually make about 10G if I wait long enough) There’s also daily world boss chests (good source of ectos). T6 laurel bags, and you could always do a variety of dungeons instead of just CoF path 1.

TGSlasher.1458:

2 months? Balance patches every 2 weeks now that PAX is over … Bug fixes still on the back burner.

My top priorities I’d like to see fixed:

• Projectiles and Beams able to fight off stealth foes. Currently beams don’t work without a target and projectiles fire into the ground with no target.
• Asura
• Solo Q issues
• Animations
• Matchmaking
• Hotjoins adding a “Play 5v5” and “Play 8v8” buttons.
• Incentives to play hotjoin and not hotjoin hero (even present in solo q).
• Lag, even though this doesn’t affect me (I always have 300 ms, wtb GW2 server for Oceanic, the amount of players this game would draw … currently there are very few MMOs with oceanic based servers)

Actually they fire into the ground because you’re looking at the ground. Shots fire straight forward in line with your camera angle. You’ll notice this if you try firing straight up into the air.

Guardian is the backbone of teamplay in every mode
-_-
-PvE, unless they’re going full glass cannon zerker all the things, every team wants at least one Guardian.
-WvW, the best zerg class by far, more guardians in a zerg, the better the zerg.
-TPvP, still considered a must on any serious team.
Rarely nerfed on top of that.
Seeing guardians complain like Rangers, is like seeing those kids that complain they got a PS3 for christmas and didn’t get a sports car.

Ranger’s a woodsman more then a marksmen. If they were to get a new weapon, it’d most likely be a staff. Also, don’t knock GS. Ranger players wanting to only Sb/Lb is probably half the reason they’re percieved as weak.

takkattak.1974:

dang ok… how the heck do you get up that mountain and to the store. Define stay in lin with the monkeys.. im not getting it

At the end of the gorge there’s a spear trap hidden in the walls. At least I know there’s one on the right wall.

I’m currently more interested in Tribulation mode then Ascended weapons.

I feel like I should record myself playing in this mode. I never would have imagined they go the Unfair Platformer route. It’s teh shiz.

Gratz. Good luck with the rest.

Jump straight up the the higher platform then immediately to the tree. My infinite coin payed for itself on that stretch. Stay in line with the monkey at the end, or you’ll trigger hidden spear traps.

There’s your water field in standoff, just don’t overwrite fire fields. You have a blast finisher now on your horn. Your LB 5 can be useful, as with your AoE fears. There’s probably other things too.

Does anyone know how to use Moto’s Designs?
Thanks in advance.

EATtheDEAD.4768:

that sucks…

I’ll probably end up quitting GW2 for good then once it gets out of hand.

If they do it once you know it won’t stop.

All they’re doing is completing the tier. Considering they still consider Rare viable, and they aren’t ramping up the challenge, you should be fine. You won’t get stranded like in WoW.

I buy the T6 mats. Most go for 20-30s on the TP and T6’s have been going up lately.

Excalibur.9748:

Ya I think larcenous strike should be utility. Then again it pretty much IS being used for utility now what with the damage about the same as auto attack….

The problem there is Auto-Attack was originally S/D’s main damage dealer, so now they’ve brought up Larcenous Strike, would you rather just deal top tier damage, or deal top tier damage while evading and stealing boons for some light init management?

LS is now overall better then AA offensively, so why AA when there’s a better option?

I like how GW2 has standardized gear strengths and am fine with ascendeds being added, so long as they stop there. But if they don’t I have a suggestion: make is so and gear tier after ascended, grants no boost to combat related stats. Give them a boost to AR, and maybe some Karma Gain, Magic Find or Gold Find, but nothing involving basic attack power, power, condition damage, toughness, ect.
That way the higher tiers would allow vertical progression in the fractals, and horizontal progression everywhere else.

The only thing on S/D that they’d likely nerf is the damage on Larcenous Strike, which I don’t care about frankly, the skill is utility to me. So long as Tactical Strike remains intact I’m good.

My guildies were telling my they saw a stream of the Taq, revamp, and said it was the most insanely challenging looking boss they’ve ever seen, so seems like there’s hope.

Player Character.9467:

So from stealth your 1 skill is “HEADSHOT” which has 8000 range and insta kills through blocks, for realism, and adds a charge of ‘multikill’ which lasts 30 seconds. If you get to 5 charges of multikill you get the pentakill buff which gives +3000 power, +200% crit dmg, and the ability permastealth while attacking.

Nice idea, but Headshot’s already on offhand pistol. Leave being Daecollo to Daecollo.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

Zacchary.6183:

Zephyrus.9680:

Zacchary.6183:

Tricare.2946:

Someone close this thread please. This thread isn’t creating healthy discussion because there is nothing to fix.

This thread is now about pie.

I like southern pecan pie. Simple to make and SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO freaking delicious.

I hope you add whiskey. Whiskey pecan pie.
Best. Pie. Evar.

I am more of a rum guy. That does sound good, though.

Rum Cake with a nice rum butter icing.

Oh man, I need to go to the Rum Runner in Nova Scotia again to get some rum cake now. (It’s just on the opposite side of the country from me.)

Vitus Dance.4509:

Niko.2017:

and of course it would have a sneak attack for when the player are in stealth.
The other skills could be made to deal conditions usefull for making the thief keep the distance, like push back, crippling, immobilize and perhaps the fifth skill could be like the dagger off hand one, a blinding shot that gives the player stealth.

Erm…why on earth would you want stealth if you were planning on ranged attacks?
I can understand why a thief would use a bow, arrow shots being fairly quiet and all, but a rifle’s not exactly silent, is it? – you may as well carry a huge flashing neon sign saying ‘here i am, kill me’.

Professional sniper’s use camouflage all the time.
Some sniper rifles have suppressors and they can be very effective at dampening sound. Suppressor technology does exist in GW2, see the Whisper’s firearms. And as to why thieves would get to make rifles behave like snipers? Give a Warrior and an Engie the same rifle and the Warrior will use it like a combat rifle, while the Engie will use it like a heavily modified shotgun.

And how effective are suppressors? Listen to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQwwUN_4aig

So is this the standard auto-aim but with a mouse locked reticle that’d be make it more accurate and in target selection?

It’s because everyone starts with a one-hander, and since the thief’s off-hand helps determine the 3 skill, they thought it better they give the thief something, rather then nothing before the thief gets a proper off-hand. It’s pretty much supposed to go unused after the tutorial.

I’d go Guardian myself. Cobalt looks kind of flimsy. At least on norn.

I’m under the impression that they aren’t going beyond ascended, can someone show where they’ve stated otherwise? Not “they made ascended therefore…” As far as raw stats are concerned, this game is still largely skill based. Rares can beat exotics.

CoF farming, but that died so, Scrubs who have no interest in improving, and how defiant has effected control builds. Also, class bias in dungeons.

Geiir.7603:

Bye bye Burnfall! You’ll be missed

I can honestly say I’m disappointed. Now we’ll never know if he had legitemate points, if it was all bluster or if he was just trolling this whole time.

Zinwrath.2049:

Dual.8953:

Zinwrath.2049:

Alkaholic.3875:

What a whiny bunch of entitled kittens.

Except not.

MMO’s are essentially business’s. The moment you paid 60 dollars for it, you earned the right to complain.

If you go to a restaurant that promises a great experience with exceptional customer service so you decide to go out and buy a meal there. but when you get there the woman taking your order never speaks to you and just nods and walks away….and then you wait forever to get your food and when she comes back with it, it isn’t what you asked for. So you tell her and she leaves ..you wait and wait and when she finally returns 30 minutes later she has something else that is closer to what you ordered…but still not right, it doesn’t taste as good at the meal you got at the restaurant across the road where the server actually listened to you and worked with you to get you what you wanted. So you pay the 60 dollars and go on yelp feeling disappointed and right a bad review complaining.

does that make you an entitled kitten? Absolutely, entitled you are, and kitten you shall.

I think part of the problem is we’re one of the most fickle, unpleasable, disrespectful forum communities I’ve ever seen. I get the feeling they pay more attention to things like reddit then they do to here because of that. Also I surmise they’re getting ready for the big patch on Tuesday and don’t have the time to try to communicate with the feral beast that is this community.

I question if you’ve EVER played another game with pvp….. forums are always full of upset. If you look at league, you’ll see a nice mixture of happy posts or constructive…not because the community just HAPPENS to be less “fickle, unpleasant..yadda” but because their voices are being heard, and the devs are quick to communicate intelligent reasoning to why something is the way it is, or even engage in a debate with the community on what might make them happy…and most importantly, those games are simply better developed. Use the link I posted earlier with LoL and scan back, you’ll find where a dev responded over 40 times to forum goers on how a champion should be best remade to fit the desires of the player base due to the champion being unpopular and toxic to the game. You don’t have that here, and thus the community is more enraged….also i play a lot of AAA games with huge communities and are already successful in the esport world…..so generally those games just have better support, which is a huge issue with this games SPVP mode.

In the end, its not the community…its the community in reaction to the developments team.

I’ve seen devs get in depth here. I see people everywhere else but this board having a much more positive view of the game overall (My guildies are currently giddy as kids on christmas eve). I’ve also seen the devs contact one of my guildies directly offering him coding to help him with his complete DE map. I get a snicker whenever I bring up these forums to people who know of them.
All that makes me question the quality of the crowd I see here.

Zinwrath.2049:

Alkaholic.3875:

What a whiny bunch of entitled kittens.

Except not.

MMO’s are essentially business’s. The moment you paid 60 dollars for it, you earned the right to complain.

If you go to a restaurant that promises a great experience with exceptional customer service so you decide to go out and buy a meal there. but when you get there the woman taking your order never speaks to you and just nods and walks away….and then you wait forever to get your food and when she comes back with it, it isn’t what you asked for. So you tell her and she leaves ..you wait and wait and when she finally returns 30 minutes later she has something else that is closer to what you ordered…but still not right, it doesn’t taste as good at the meal you got at the restaurant across the road where the server actually listened to you and worked with you to get you what you wanted. So you pay the 60 dollars and go on yelp feeling disappointed and right a bad review complaining.

does that make you an entitled kitten? Absolutely, entitled you are, and kitten you shall.

I think part of the problem is we’re one of the most fickle, unpleasable, disrespectful forum communities I’ve ever seen. I get the feeling they pay more attention to things like reddit then they do to here because of that. Also I surmise they’re getting ready for the big patch on Tuesday and don’t have the time to try to communicate with the feral beast that is this community.

Are you aware of the shortcut? Takes less the a minute to get to Fire Shaman if you use it.

Rezzet.3614:

Dual.8953:

Player Character.9467:

Dual.8953:

Rezzet.3614:

Topher.1684:

Rezzet.3614:

Olba.5376:

Rezzet.3614:

snip

snip

1.engineers have medium armor as well and they dont have infinite stealth nor initiative system

2.how does it make sense for someone to bash a shield with a dagger or sword or hammer and still remain undetected by the target?

3.precisely the problem the debuff should apply even if the playerdoes not hit a target wich would balance out the d/p perma stealth thiefs nowadays

4.i agree this was a terrible suggestion for group fights

5.precisely wich would make the trait make thiefs move at normal speed during stealth if traited basically this simply adds risk to skill spammers .(disagree with this one to some extent since this is thief’s swiftness basically )

1) Engineers also have more hp and sources of protection. (I think comparing what one class has to another is pointless anyway, otherwise we would just end up with 1 class with different looking armours) Double damage on stealth would pretty much mean a death sentence to going into stealth most of the time (would kill all /d builds that use CnD). Would also make many of our stealth skills useless (SR? Last Refuge?…oh god Last Refuge…)

2) While I don’t think thief should remain undetected when he gets blocked/evaded from stealth, your argument doesn’t work. Turn off the lights and have a friend throw something at you. Can you tell where he is if you block/duck out of the way?

3) The Debuff is there as a penalty to using stealth skills (so the thief can’t spam them). A better balance to the d/p stealth spam would be to put a limit on leap finishers, or prevent leap finishes that grant stealth from stacking. Putting the reveal on after coming out of stealth would also hurt mesmers.

4) I don’t know why this keeps coming up. This (again) would really hurt mesmers.

5) A movement % decrease in stealth would require a hefty buff to stealth duration. It works like this in other games because stealth is not a limited time buff. You toggle it and then move around to get into position. Probably the worst idea of the bunch. A possible solution would be to have the 50% trait apply only for a few seconds (gets refreshed when stealth is REAPPLIED? so stacking stealth would still only result in like 3-5 sec of movement speed)

Oh another note, Can a mod please get rid of this topic (or lock it please)

^boo hoo someone pointed out facts about thieves and i dont want my class fighting evenly with others

1. each of those hp or protection sources is a major trait that dint go to damage or kits or whatever , thiefs also happen to have the ability to steal boons

2.how the heck do you see logic in this argument, turn off the lights step aside and tell your friend to throw somethign where you were guess what nothing happens cuz neither one sees each other , if i blocked something thrown at me it would at least reveal his current or previous location

3.the debuff needs a revamp so that it works even if the thief does NOT damage a target thus preventing perma stealth

4.as i previously said it was a stupid suggestion, so this one should be scratched
5.50% movement speed is too much when you can spam stealth almost indefinetly and have a 25% movement speed signet

My problem with 5 is a movement speed reduction, especially one of such magnitude would make stealth skills, especially ones with positional requirements, completely useless.
Backstab and Tactical Strike are hardly threatening thier hard counter is “walking away”
It also like 1 would severely cripple thief’s chances to be taken on a dungeon run “now stealth us so we can get past these trash mobs. WTH?! USELESS THIEF!! NOW WE HAVE TO FIGHT ALL OF THEM!!kitten!” (The thief was then kicked and replaced by a ranger)

Except the thief moves at 150% combat speed when traited and the OP wants that lowered to the levels of being under swiftness instead.

Except he didn’t mention that trait anywhere in the post. One has to assume he means for all stealth to move at near cripple speed.

thats actually a great idea lul.. not in all seriousness i meant for the trait to give same speed as swiftness.

Mucho Picante

No problem with 5 then. Just 1 seems worriesome. I don’t think dungeoneers would be keen on welcoming a class that’s glassier then a boonless Ele.

Burnfall, I’ll give you a fair shot. You spend so much time saying how a thief shouldn’t be able to play, why not share how a thief should play? How should it fill the roles of Damage, Contol and Support that all classes must have aptitude in? How should it be unique in its playstyle to all other classes? Floor’s your’s.

Player Character.9467:

Dual.8953:

Rezzet.3614:

Topher.1684:

Rezzet.3614:

Olba.5376:

Rezzet.3614:

snip

snip

1.engineers have medium armor as well and they dont have infinite stealth nor initiative system

2.how does it make sense for someone to bash a shield with a dagger or sword or hammer and still remain undetected by the target?

3.precisely the problem the debuff should apply even if the playerdoes not hit a target wich would balance out the d/p perma stealth thiefs nowadays

4.i agree this was a terrible suggestion for group fights

5.precisely wich would make the trait make thiefs move at normal speed during stealth if traited basically this simply adds risk to skill spammers .(disagree with this one to some extent since this is thief’s swiftness basically )

1) Engineers also have more hp and sources of protection. (I think comparing what one class has to another is pointless anyway, otherwise we would just end up with 1 class with different looking armours) Double damage on stealth would pretty much mean a death sentence to going into stealth most of the time (would kill all /d builds that use CnD). Would also make many of our stealth skills useless (SR? Last Refuge?…oh god Last Refuge…)

2) While I don’t think thief should remain undetected when he gets blocked/evaded from stealth, your argument doesn’t work. Turn off the lights and have a friend throw something at you. Can you tell where he is if you block/duck out of the way?

3) The Debuff is there as a penalty to using stealth skills (so the thief can’t spam them). A better balance to the d/p stealth spam would be to put a limit on leap finishers, or prevent leap finishes that grant stealth from stacking. Putting the reveal on after coming out of stealth would also hurt mesmers.

4) I don’t know why this keeps coming up. This (again) would really hurt mesmers.

5) A movement % decrease in stealth would require a hefty buff to stealth duration. It works like this in other games because stealth is not a limited time buff. You toggle it and then move around to get into position. Probably the worst idea of the bunch. A possible solution would be to have the 50% trait apply only for a few seconds (gets refreshed when stealth is REAPPLIED? so stacking stealth would still only result in like 3-5 sec of movement speed)

Oh another note, Can a mod please get rid of this topic (or lock it please)

^boo hoo someone pointed out facts about thieves and i dont want my class fighting evenly with others

1. each of those hp or protection sources is a major trait that dint go to damage or kits or whatever , thiefs also happen to have the ability to steal boons

2.how the heck do you see logic in this argument, turn off the lights step aside and tell your friend to throw somethign where you were guess what nothing happens cuz neither one sees each other , if i blocked something thrown at me it would at least reveal his current or previous location

3.the debuff needs a revamp so that it works even if the thief does NOT damage a target thus preventing perma stealth

4.as i previously said it was a stupid suggestion, so this one should be scratched
5.50% movement speed is too much when you can spam stealth almost indefinetly and have a 25% movement speed signet

My problem with 5 is a movement speed reduction, especially one of such magnitude would make stealth skills, especially ones with positional requirements, completely useless.
Backstab and Tactical Strike are hardly threatening thier hard counter is “walking away”
It also like 1 would severely cripple thief’s chances to be taken on a dungeon run “now stealth us so we can get past these trash mobs. WTH?! USELESS THIEF!! NOW WE HAVE TO FIGHT ALL OF THEM!!kitten!” (The thief was then kicked and replaced by a ranger)

Except the thief moves at 150% combat speed when traited and the OP wants that lowered to the levels of being under swiftness instead.

Except he didn’t mention that trait anywhere in the post. One has to assume he means for all stealth to move at near cripple speed.

Rezzet.3614:

Topher.1684:

Rezzet.3614:

Olba.5376:

Rezzet.3614:

snip

1. Why? Thieves have medium armor and the lowest base health, plus extremely limited access to Protection. Without stealth, Thieves are forced to go the route of evade spamming.
2. What kind of sense does that make? How about everyone lose health and/or get stunned/dazed/knocked down when they hit someone who’s blocking?
3. There is already a 3 second Revealed that you cannot get around if you attack from stealth. If you do not attack in stealth, you can restealth immediately.
4. Makes no sense. That would just mean that in a group setting, a Thief could be used as an aggro anchor by an organized team. Not to mention that it would make WvW even more of a mess than it already is.
5. Makes no sense, considering that there’s a trait giving +50% movement speed while in stealth.

1.engineers have medium armor as well and they dont have infinite stealth nor initiative system

2.how does it make sense for someone to bash a shield with a dagger or sword or hammer and still remain undetected by the target?

3.precisely the problem the debuff should apply even if the playerdoes not hit a target wich would balance out the d/p perma stealth thiefs nowadays

4.i agree this was a terrible suggestion for group fights

5.precisely wich would make the trait make thiefs move at normal speed during stealth if traited basically this simply adds risk to skill spammers .(disagree with this one to some extent since this is thief’s swiftness basically )

1) Engineers also have more hp and sources of protection. (I think comparing what one class has to another is pointless anyway, otherwise we would just end up with 1 class with different looking armours) Double damage on stealth would pretty much mean a death sentence to going into stealth most of the time (would kill all /d builds that use CnD). Would also make many of our stealth skills useless (SR? Last Refuge?…oh god Last Refuge…)

2) While I don’t think thief should remain undetected when he gets blocked/evaded from stealth, your argument doesn’t work. Turn off the lights and have a friend throw something at you. Can you tell where he is if you block/duck out of the way?

3) The Debuff is there as a penalty to using stealth skills (so the thief can’t spam them). A better balance to the d/p stealth spam would be to put a limit on leap finishers, or prevent leap finishes that grant stealth from stacking. Putting the reveal on after coming out of stealth would also hurt mesmers.

4) I don’t know why this keeps coming up. This (again) would really hurt mesmers.

5) A movement % decrease in stealth would require a hefty buff to stealth duration. It works like this in other games because stealth is not a limited time buff. You toggle it and then move around to get into position. Probably the worst idea of the bunch. A possible solution would be to have the 50% trait apply only for a few seconds (gets refreshed when stealth is REAPPLIED? so stacking stealth would still only result in like 3-5 sec of movement speed)

Oh another note, Can a mod please get rid of this topic (or lock it please)

^boo hoo someone pointed out facts about thieves and i dont want my class fighting evenly with others

1. each of those hp or protection sources is a major trait that dint go to damage or kits or whatever , thiefs also happen to have the ability to steal boons

2.how the heck do you see logic in this argument, turn off the lights step aside and tell your friend to throw somethign where you were guess what nothing happens cuz neither one sees each other , if i blocked something thrown at me it would at least reveal his current or previous location

3.the debuff needs a revamp so that it works even if the thief does NOT damage a target thus preventing perma stealth

4.as i previously said it was a stupid suggestion, so this one should be scratched
5.50% movement speed is too much when you can spam stealth almost indefinetly and have a 25% movement speed signet

My problem with 5 is a movement speed reduction, especially one of such magnitude would make stealth skills, especially ones with positional requirements, completely useless.
Backstab and Tactical Strike are hardly threatening thier hard counter is “walking away”
It also like 1 would severely cripple thief’s chances to be taken on a dungeon run “now stealth us so we can get past these trash mobs. WTH?! USELESS THIEF!! NOW WE HAVE TO FIGHT ALL OF THEM!!kitten!” (The thief was then kicked and replaced by a ranger)

evilapprentice.6379:

Dual.8953:

evilapprentice.6379:

Barock.7183:

evilapprentice.6379:

Barock.7183:

Evilek.5690:

Barock.7183:

snip

I must laugh again

Reduce the power of S / D of only 10% and I guarantee that you will never play S/D Thief and all go play D/P and we see many new crying post on this forum.

so you are competely ok with the the state S/D is in atm?
at least try to get a solution here instead of barking everything off like Anet is going to cut your junk of in the next patch.

they will nerf this one day,if only to improve the play style.
all we can do is steer them in the right direction maybe 50% reduce is to much but together with a dancing dagger buff and a 30% dmg reduce it should be a viable weapon set.

Yeah, S/D is fine. There’s no need for a “solution” because there isn’t a problem, beyond your inability to learn how to counter an S/D thief. Go roll an S/D thief, learn the timing, and every time you get trucked (and you will), wonder to yourself “How did that happen?”, then mimic it.
Problem solved.

for a fact i am a R45 S/D thief with 1064 hours of thief play and even i think this needs a fix cus it’s so one sided

Go ahead and elaborate “cus it’s so one sided” then.

He’s saying because FS/LS has become the so powerful that there’s no reason not to spam it in all situations. You’re evading so much that it’s a waste of time to try to hit you, and the damage is just as good as auto attack (S/D’s former main damage dealer), and you steal 2 boons every stab. So you have S/D’s highest damage, defense and the ability to shut down boon users completely all in one spammable skill. It disgusts me that the weapon set that my favourite weaponset which I have used for well over 700 hours, has reduced itself to spamming the 3 skill to be effective at top level play.
It disgusts me that that 222222 thing people say about D/x thieves is actually true on S/D thieves with 333333.
My idea is to destroy that kind of play and bring it back to the S/D users making full use of their.

Spamming 3 with S/D is as exactly as effective as spamming 2 with Dagger MH. There are times when spam is the right way to go, but doing so universally and without good reason will get you destroyed.

You aren’t “always evading” if you’re spamming 3. In fact, you’re evading exactly half the time. FS does kitten damage, the big hit is the one where your open for .5s as you prepare the swing. If you can’t learn simple timing, then crying on the boards wont help you.

As a quick sidenote, I rolled a warrior and went Hammer – M/S for funsies. In my very first fight with an S/D thief, I couldn’t hit him (Not that he did anywhere near the amount of damage he needed to drop me, mind you, but I couldn’t hit him). On the second fight, when I was more used to skill cast times, I batted him all around the screen like a pinball. How? Because I’ve been playing an S/D thief for months. I knew Exactly what the thief was going to do, and when he was going to do it, I just needed a little more experience with Warriors cast times. It’s hilariously easy to time with just a little practice. Worst case scenario, He’s spamming dodges all over the place, hitting me with FS (Which hits for kitten, btw) and only FS, because every time he even thought about being near me and not evading, he caught a hammer or mace in the face.

Let’s also note that Double S/D is a mostly dead spec – it doesn’t have any poison (which is brutal in current meta, with all the passive regen people are rolling with), can’t contribute to team fights, and gets shredded by AoE every second they aren’t evading with FS.

Nobody is spamming 3 and “effective at top play”. The people crying about Double S/D 3 spam are Hot Join hero’s, where any crap spec can work because some people are awful

Well I’m going with what I’ve been hearing going around with this rant being the icing on the cake: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Helseths-Rant-of-the-Week-THIS-META/first#content

I can see how the presents of an S/D thief in a game can block boon heavy classes from playing, and I want LS to still be a counter to boon users but not completely shut them down by it’s mere presence.
S/D used to be considered a respectable thief set. Now it’s joined the ranks of the “mindless spammers” in people’s minds. I get the inkling that most Spvp S/D users hardly ever even use Tactical Strike anymore.
I realize there’s a lot more problems with other classes in SPvP but I don’t have experience with them, I have been with S/D from the start, which is why I speak about it and not them.

evilapprentice.6379:

Barock.7183:

evilapprentice.6379:

Barock.7183:

Evilek.5690:

Barock.7183:

like above post says the damage of auto attack is high enough to keep the build viable even with a flanking nerf

this is exactly why the damage has to be reduced with something like 50% but keep the initiative.
thief play should be situational you shouldn’t be able to kill anything while the best option is “almost” always the same key this is why normal attack should be a better option then flanking so we will only use it to dodge a critical attack like warrior stun or remove stability etc so i believe in the damage reduction but keep the initiative the builds are already initiative orientated so they can spam it.
if you reduce the damage players will not spec to spam it anymore and you get a viable versatile balanced play style.
correct me if i’m wrong :p

sorry for this one thief colleagues just got to be honest on this one to improve the over all game quality

I must laugh again

Reduce the power of S / D of only 10% and I guarantee that you will never play S/D Thief and all go play D/P and we see many new crying post on this forum.

so you are competely ok with the the state S/D is in atm?
at least try to get a solution here instead of barking everything off like Anet is going to cut your junk of in the next patch.

they will nerf this one day,if only to improve the play style.
all we can do is steer them in the right direction maybe 50% reduce is to much but together with a dancing dagger buff and a 30% dmg reduce it should be a viable weapon set.

Yeah, S/D is fine. There’s no need for a “solution” because there isn’t a problem, beyond your inability to learn how to counter an S/D thief. Go roll an S/D thief, learn the timing, and every time you get trucked (and you will), wonder to yourself “How did that happen?”, then mimic it.
Problem solved.

for a fact i am a R45 S/D thief with 1064 hours of thief play and even i think this needs a fix cus it’s so one sided

Go ahead and elaborate “cus it’s so one sided” then.

He’s saying because FS/LS has become the so powerful that there’s no reason not to spam it in all situations. You’re evading so much that it’s a waste of time to try to hit you, and the damage is just as good as auto attack (S/D’s former main damage dealer), and you steal 2 boons every stab. So you have S/D’s highest damage, defense and the ability to shut down boon users completely all in one spammable skill. It disgusts me that the weapon set that my favourite weaponset which I have used for well over 700 hours, has reduced itself to spamming the 3 skill to be effective at top level play.
It disgusts me that that 222222 thing people say about D/x thieves is actually true on S/D thieves with 333333.
My idea is to destroy that kind of play and bring it back to the S/D users making full use of their.

Rezzet.3614:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRcTKt47ixk

based on this how to be skilled thief= sequence 5,2,1,1,1,1,1 or F1,5,2,1,1,1,1,1

it is just too effective cooldownless AoE blind+stealth/damage/gap closer/opener in 2 keys wanna run from said thief? Nope number 3 skill is cooldownless shadowstep gg

It’s no different from going 2,3,5,4 on my engie or 3,5,5,4,2 on my guardian into infinitum. The difference is on the thief set, 3 and 4 are a low damage gap closer and a low damage short daze, and you can’t just weapon swap to spam into infinitum like the other classes can.

Burnfall.9573:

Nuka Cola.8520:

Theftwind.8976:

engineers > thieves

the problem isn’t thief<X but stealthing/Heartseekering to the other side of the map without you being able to see the target. its just to easy to get out of fights. I want stealth to be nerfed as much as rangers will be nerfed in the next 2 patches and that is coming from some1 who mains a stealth class.

Excuse me?

Why would you compare thief stealth to ranger’s “stealth”?

As a ranger, our “stealth doesn’t last more than 3 sec..” while your thief class mechanics revovles around ‘24/7’ stealths.

Any thieves here can tell you how ‘useless’ rangers ‘stealth’ is to them..
kitten, we rangers are still easy killable to you Op thieves, no matter what ‘changes’ we are given.

You nerfed our pets damage and mobility,

what now, make us run naked with a useless pet.. is that what you want?

What might get nerfed on Ranger is Spirits. Take a gander at SPvP Burnfall.

Nuka Cola.8520:

Dual.8953:

Nuka Cola.8520:

Dual.8953:

Nuka Cola.8520:

Dual.8953:

Nuka Cola.8520:

CnD damage removed completely or initiatives increased to 9
Heartseeker leap finisher removed completely
Shadow Refuge CD increased to 90sec
5sec reveal debuff for all stealth skills in the game

Lots of Thieves will cry on this forum but its for the best of the game. Maybe then we will start seeing anything else but thieves solo roaming in wvw…

Yeah. Then we won’t see them anywhere at all. Just the cheesy double S/D build in Spvp.
They’ll be the new Rangers.

less spammable stealth and no cheesy BP+heartseeker spam=no thieves in wvw? What a weak class. You still got your stealth except now you gotta chose when and how to use it instead of spamming it as it was your auto attack.

S/D control, destroyed. P/D condition, destroyed. D/x zerker burst, In tact. Non-burst stealth builds, destroyed. Non-stealth build, still where they are, which is sub-par with the exception of Double S/D FS spam.
Fix your aim much?

toned down and destroyed is two very different things. People playing on thief got so used to spam stealth 24/7 that any minor or major change is /okay im uninstalling f that…

A near 50% lose of contol and condition uptime is far from a small loss. Not even mentioning the loss in defense. It’s a massive nerf on all fronts to combat sustainability.

A Leap Finisher should’ve never been on a spammable skill such as HS so its increase of initiatives (which i don’t think anyone wants) or leap removed. For what CnD does is way too cheesy compared to anything other class have access to… i mean, you can spam it on walls and have close to perma stealth, wtf were they thinking. Not only that but a person that has two ranged weapons that requires a target can’t even hit a CnD spammer. This skill makes no sense and im pretty sure most seen how you can solo zergs spamming it, is this okay to you? is this how thieves should be? Of course if my suggestion hurts them too much they always increase their base HP or do other tweaking and the day it happens is the day you will see more than 2 peeps per day solo roaming on anything but a thief. I want stealth to be nerfed on my mez as well, not only thief.

I give you a S/D and P/D example, and you jump right back to D/P and D/D .-. Way to dodge the topic.
Solo a zerg? Really? You’d think you’d hear about a thief defeating 20+ players in a group.
Increasing their hp is a horrible re-embersement, you might as well give them pets and call them Rangers after that. What you’re suggesting it equivalent to lowering your clone limit to 1.

(Also if a class goes all ranged, they’re already exposing themselves to blatant exploitable flaws, like reflect.)

Nuka Cola.8520:

Dual.8953:

Nuka Cola.8520:

Dual.8953:

Nuka Cola.8520:

CnD damage removed completely or initiatives increased to 9
Heartseeker leap finisher removed completely
Shadow Refuge CD increased to 90sec
5sec reveal debuff for all stealth skills in the game

Lots of Thieves will cry on this forum but its for the best of the game. Maybe then we will start seeing anything else but thieves solo roaming in wvw…

Yeah. Then we won’t see them anywhere at all. Just the cheesy double S/D build in Spvp.
They’ll be the new Rangers.

less spammable stealth and no cheesy BP+heartseeker spam=no thieves in wvw? What a weak class. You still got your stealth except now you gotta chose when and how to use it instead of spamming it as it was your auto attack.

S/D control, destroyed. P/D condition, destroyed. D/x zerker burst, In tact. Non-burst stealth builds, destroyed. Non-stealth build, still where they are, which is sub-par with the exception of Double S/D FS spam.
Fix your aim much?

toned down and destroyed is two very different things. People playing on thief got so used to spam stealth 24/7 that any minor or major change is /okay im uninstalling f that…

A near 50% lose of contol and condition uptime is far from a small loss. Not even mentioning the loss in defense. It’s a massive nerf on all fronts to combat sustainability.

Nuka Cola.8520:

Thief has spammable stealth, poison on an auto attack, autos can easily hit over 10k (how many classes can do that?), fastest attack rate on autos (daggers) in the game, S/D spam 2 all day. What else do you need?

The spammable steath does little for team support, dumping the aggro on the thief’s teammates. It’s S/D 3 not 2. Quite a few classes can hit 10k in PvE. And THIS IS PVE. NOT PVP!
Also dagger are single target and do are useless when plowing through a horde of mobs.

Zietlogik.6208:

Dual.8953:

Conan.8046:

Dual.8953:

Zietlogik.6208:

Dual.8953:

Conan.8046:

Dual.8953:

Conan.8046:

In other mmo’s thieves don’t have to actively avoid all damage, and don’t have most of their strongest moves tied to stealth. In those games, stealth is designed to be purely as an openner. In guild wars, stealth is designed as mindgame trick at the core of thief’s combat style, not unlike Mesmer clones. Stealth is to be used to reposition and flank your opponent, but it is also warning that a powerful hit is coming. Clever opponents win the mindgame, those that refuse to awknowledge it get punished for thier ignorance.

Stealth isn’t designed for openers? so your saying back stab isn’t one of the biggest hits in the game?
In other games your right they don’t have to dodge damage or use evades..oh wait they don’t in guild wars 2 either because its easier just to stealth again, which removes conditions and heals you. You can’t be attacked because they enemy can’t target you…now if you get caught in an AOE how is that NOT your fault.
Its nothing to do with a mind game, mesmer has clones, ignore them and kill the player.

In other games thieves don’t have to evade because the coding says that attack missed because evade statistics. In GW2 a hit is a hit, and stealth does absolutely nothing to cushion that hit. A thief facetanking 100blades while visible will take just as much damage as a thief facetanking 100blades while invisible. The condi-removal on stealth is decent but can be overwhelmed easily by any class that can stack more then one condition (see engie and necro). If you haven’t figured out how to fight without a target you’re hopeless. All melee weapons in this game do not require a target. (If you’re skilled enough you’d also notice that projectiles don’t require a target either)
And you’ve just described the solution to the mind game of the mesmer. /facepalm
Identifying the real mesmer and attacking him/her.
The mind game for stealth is being ready to react. Protip, don’t blow your cooldowns when a dodge will do.

Backstab isn’t the biggest hit in the game, there are other skills that hit harder, especially if backstab is improperly aimed. Also being a single hit which has can only hit once, it’s able to be recovered from by anyone who knows what they’re doing.

/sigh
It’s like people these days have no idea how to identify and analyse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vnvn0swfviw

= Just like thieves in GW2.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Dodge

Thieves in this game don’t have that.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Evade

They have a ton of that though

Are you daft? Evade in Guild Wars 2 doesn’t just happen. You have to actually evade. In Wow, the game decides for you if you evade. The Rogue player just stands there tanking like warrior, the Thief player reads the enemy’s tells and dodge rolls. One is automatic and one is manual.

Your right if Wow was like GW2 dodge would have been tied to sinister strike and called evade.
You spam your attacks and evade automatically.

Only 3 skills do that, (and 2 on spear), flanking strike; only dangerous one of the three, deathblossom; considered subpar as a condi skill, and disabling shot; a spacing tool not powerful enough to be considered a threat. Wow Rogue is pretty much a sneaky warrior with stealth. It has passive defenses so the player doesn’t have to do much to avoid damage. Just stand there and let everything miss. GW2 thief has none of that, every time you miss a thief in gw2, it’s either because you have poor aim, or the thief player made the effort to dodge your attack.
Thief in gw2 doesn’t nor will ever play like a warrior who face tanks your hits. Get over it or get out.

Endurance and Vigor says hi! A thief really talking about evades? who whudda thunk

What is so hard for you people to understand difference between active and passive? In GW2, endurance and vigor don’t do a thing it the player doesn’t dodge. In other games, attacks inexplicably miss the stationary thief because the battle RNG calculator said so.

Nuka Cola.8520:

Dual.8953:

Nuka Cola.8520:

CnD damage removed completely or initiatives increased to 9
Heartseeker leap finisher removed completely
Shadow Refuge CD increased to 90sec
5sec reveal debuff for all stealth skills in the game

Lots of Thieves will cry on this forum but its for the best of the game. Maybe then we will start seeing anything else but thieves solo roaming in wvw…

Yeah. Then we won’t see them anywhere at all. Just the cheesy double S/D build in Spvp.
They’ll be the new Rangers.

less spammable stealth and no cheesy BP+heartseeker spam=no thieves in wvw? What a weak class. You still got your stealth except now you gotta chose when and how to use it instead of spamming it as it was your auto attack.

S/D control, destroyed. P/D condition, destroyed. D/x zerker burst, In tact. Non-burst stealth builds, destroyed. Non-stealth build, still where they are, which is sub-par with the exception of Double S/D FS spam.
Fix your aim much?

Xsorus.2507:

Dual.8953:

Xsorus.2507:

Dual.8953:

Fishbait.6723:

Direwind.8409:

if you take a direct hit (not aoe) you should have stealth removed.

tbh Ao£ should get them out of stealth too.

i agree though, stealth is stupid in this game, more so then any other I`ve played by a long shot.

Then explain how a thieves are supposed to sustain combat? Damage breaking stealth would break thieves. All that would remain are a few stubborn backstabs in wvw. No one with a brain would take them in any mode, pvp or pve.

Strangely it didn’t break stealthers in most of the other MMO’s with Stealth Breaking on Damage, and they didn’t have the option of instantly restealthing.

In other mmo’s thieves don’t have to actively avoid all damage, and don’t have most of their strongest moves tied to stealth. In those games, stealth is designed to be purely as an openner. In guild wars, stealth is designed as mindgame trick at the core of thief’s combat style, not unlike Mesmer clones. Stealth is to be used to reposition and flank your opponent, but it is also warning that a powerful hit is coming. Clever opponents win the mindgame, those that refuse to awknowledge it get punished for thier ignorance.

Umm, Every MMO out there you ahve to actively avoid damage via cooldowns/los and they most certainly do have their strongest moves tied to stealth… Hell that’s pretty much the staple of all Rogues, that when they open in stealth they have a huge attack.

Stealth in this game is simply another system that wasn’t well thought out…. It works alright enough in PVE and even in SPvP somewhat after all the nerfs… but World vs World…come the hell on..

BS. I’ve played Wow, and many other mmos, and in all of them but PSO2 and GW2, everyone just stood there and let their Avoid/Defense stat deal with the damage mitigation, occasionally using a pot when hp got low.

Thieves are a pretty much a non-issue to any WvWer who actually cares about helping thier server win. They don’t deserved a fraction of the flack they get, especially with classes that actually make a difference, such as Guardians running around actually contributing to the PPT.

Truth be told I’m not the biggest PvPer by a long shot, but I’ve been using S/D since day one and would like to give some thoughts onto how to bring S/D more in line.

I’ll start with the biggy. Larcenous Strike. This skill has it all, power, utility, and defense. It’s become an all purpose skill that can win a battle with little effort. The skill shouldn’t bring both damage and utility to the battle. I propose they nerf it’s damage by 50-75%, increase it’s cost to 4-5 init (making it have a grand total of 7 to 8 init cost), shorten the amount of time you have to use it a touch, and increase the boons stolen to 3 possibly. Maybe give it a flashier tell as well.

In return they could perhaps increase the sword auto-attack’s overall damage by 5-10%, make dancing dagger inflict torment, and increase the daze on tactical strike a smidge.

I feel this’d make larcenous strike more risky to use forcing s/d users to make full use of their set, hopefully while still keeping them a viable threat. If it proves too harsh, buff something other then larcenous strike.

Nuka Cola.8520:

CnD damage removed completely or initiatives increased to 9
Heartseeker leap finisher removed completely
Shadow Refuge CD increased to 90sec
5sec reveal debuff for all stealth skills in the game

Lots of Thieves will cry on this forum but its for the best of the game. Maybe then we will start seeing anything else but thieves solo roaming in wvw…

Yeah. Then we won’t see them anywhere at all. Just the cheesy double S/D build in Spvp.
They’ll be the new Rangers.

Asuka Shikinami.5462:

Revealed = 4s to bring this in line with PVP class balance, as WVW is supposed to be a PVP game mode…

If an attack is made in stealth and this is blocked, the attacker gets a 1s revealed. This adds more counter play with blocks and seems more appropriate.. seriously if someone is trying to stab you in the back, and you block it, how could you not notice they were behind you…

If a character exists stealth (normally, not revealed) they get an immediate 1s revealed, to prevent c/d spam (especially of NPC mobs and ambient creates) and force players to use stealth more resourcefully.

I think these three changes would bring about more counter-play and balance in the overall mechanic, not just thieves. It would also force many thieves to work towards a higher skill level rather than rely on an overpowered mechanic. At the same time thieves do need some buffs in their weaker areas. The amount of 521 thieves roaming is proof how much of an advantage the mechanic gives to the class – while other classes can stealth, no one can spam it at this level.

Lower, Larsonous Strike’s power by 75% and slow it by 10%, buff the daze on Tactical Strike by half a second, and buff sword auto attack by 10% overall, and I’ll accept these.

Conan.8046:

Dual.8953:

Zietlogik.6208:

Dual.8953:

Conan.8046:

Dual.8953:

Conan.8046:

In other mmo’s thieves don’t have to actively avoid all damage, and don’t have most of their strongest moves tied to stealth. In those games, stealth is designed to be purely as an openner. In guild wars, stealth is designed as mindgame trick at the core of thief’s combat style, not unlike Mesmer clones. Stealth is to be used to reposition and flank your opponent, but it is also warning that a powerful hit is coming. Clever opponents win the mindgame, those that refuse to awknowledge it get punished for thier ignorance.

Stealth isn’t designed for openers? so your saying back stab isn’t one of the biggest hits in the game?
In other games your right they don’t have to dodge damage or use evades..oh wait they don’t in guild wars 2 either because its easier just to stealth again, which removes conditions and heals you. You can’t be attacked because they enemy can’t target you…now if you get caught in an AOE how is that NOT your fault.
Its nothing to do with a mind game, mesmer has clones, ignore them and kill the player.

In other games thieves don’t have to evade because the coding says that attack missed because evade statistics. In GW2 a hit is a hit, and stealth does absolutely nothing to cushion that hit. A thief facetanking 100blades while visible will take just as much damage as a thief facetanking 100blades while invisible. The condi-removal on stealth is decent but can be overwhelmed easily by any class that can stack more then one condition (see engie and necro). If you haven’t figured out how to fight without a target you’re hopeless. All melee weapons in this game do not require a target. (If you’re skilled enough you’d also notice that projectiles don’t require a target either)
And you’ve just described the solution to the mind game of the mesmer. /facepalm
Identifying the real mesmer and attacking him/her.
The mind game for stealth is being ready to react. Protip, don’t blow your cooldowns when a dodge will do.

Backstab isn’t the biggest hit in the game, there are other skills that hit harder, especially if backstab is improperly aimed. Also being a single hit which has can only hit once, it’s able to be recovered from by anyone who knows what they’re doing.

/sigh
It’s like people these days have no idea how to identify and analyse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vnvn0swfviw

= Just like thieves in GW2.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Dodge

Thieves in this game don’t have that.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Evade

They have a ton of that though

Are you daft? Evade in Guild Wars 2 doesn’t just happen. You have to actually evade. In Wow, the game decides for you if you evade. The Rogue player just stands there tanking like warrior, the Thief player reads the enemy’s tells and dodge rolls. One is automatic and one is manual.

Your right if Wow was like GW2 dodge would have been tied to sinister strike and called evade.
You spam your attacks and evade automatically.

Only 3 skills do that, (and 2 on spear), flanking strike; only dangerous one of the three, deathblossom; considered subpar as a condi skill, and disabling shot; a spacing tool not powerful enough to be considered a threat. Wow Rogue is pretty much a sneaky warrior with stealth. It has passive defenses so the player doesn’t have to do much to avoid damage. Just stand there and let everything miss. GW2 thief has none of that, every time you miss a thief in gw2, it’s either because you have poor aim, or the thief player made the effort to dodge your attack.
Thief in gw2 doesn’t nor will ever play like a warrior who face tanks your hits. Get over it or get out.

Zietlogik.6208:

Dual.8953:

Conan.8046:

Dual.8953:

Conan.8046:

In other mmo’s thieves don’t have to actively avoid all damage, and don’t have most of their strongest moves tied to stealth. In those games, stealth is designed to be purely as an openner. In guild wars, stealth is designed as mindgame trick at the core of thief’s combat style, not unlike Mesmer clones. Stealth is to be used to reposition and flank your opponent, but it is also warning that a powerful hit is coming. Clever opponents win the mindgame, those that refuse to awknowledge it get punished for thier ignorance.

Stealth isn’t designed for openers? so your saying back stab isn’t one of the biggest hits in the game?
In other games your right they don’t have to dodge damage or use evades..oh wait they don’t in guild wars 2 either because its easier just to stealth again, which removes conditions and heals you. You can’t be attacked because they enemy can’t target you…now if you get caught in an AOE how is that NOT your fault.
Its nothing to do with a mind game, mesmer has clones, ignore them and kill the player.

In other games thieves don’t have to evade because the coding says that attack missed because evade statistics. In GW2 a hit is a hit, and stealth does absolutely nothing to cushion that hit. A thief facetanking 100blades while visible will take just as much damage as a thief facetanking 100blades while invisible. The condi-removal on stealth is decent but can be overwhelmed easily by any class that can stack more then one condition (see engie and necro). If you haven’t figured out how to fight without a target you’re hopeless. All melee weapons in this game do not require a target. (If you’re skilled enough you’d also notice that projectiles don’t require a target either)
And you’ve just described the solution to the mind game of the mesmer. /facepalm
Identifying the real mesmer and attacking him/her.
The mind game for stealth is being ready to react. Protip, don’t blow your cooldowns when a dodge will do.

Backstab isn’t the biggest hit in the game, there are other skills that hit harder, especially if backstab is improperly aimed. Also being a single hit which has can only hit once, it’s able to be recovered from by anyone who knows what they’re doing.

/sigh
It’s like people these days have no idea how to identify and analyse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vnvn0swfviw

= Just like thieves in GW2.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Dodge

Thieves in this game don’t have that.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Evade

They have a ton of that though

Are you daft? Evade in Guild Wars 2 doesn’t just happen. You have to actually evade. In Wow, the game decides for you if you evade. The Rogue player just stands there tanking like warrior, the Thief player reads the enemy’s tells and dodge rolls. One is automatic and one is manual.