Guild Wars 2

You do realize this’d make turrets completely useless right? Turrets can drop as fast as they’re put up. Why would anyone use them if they had a cast channel?

Einlanzer.1627:

I think Revealed in general is fine, but there are still some balance issues surrounding both it and Stealth in general, like Last Refuge and Smoke Bomb still being totally useless. How have they gone so many months without addressing that?

/points to Rangers

That’s how.
Personally I have no problem with revealed. Maybe if they made it so Last Refuge’s Stealth had no revealed?

I’m just saying, under ideal party situations, it’s such a waste for 10 potential seconds of stone to be reduced to one and a half seconds. They should really do what that other guy said and make Venoms behave like Mantras. Maybe let them preload stacks, say you ready a Devourer Venom, you could pre-set all three uses into one strike for a long immobilize or space out three strategic immobilizes over time.

Can this be made stackable? There’s no point in using Venomous Aura or Residual Venom with this and it’s an elite.

Want it too. It was a nice feature in GW1.

Geiir.7603:

Blocking should reveal the thief yes. So should being attacked while in stealth. The debuff should also be applied even though the thief doesn’t attack from stealth. That’s my opinion at least.

Destealth on damage would render Thieves unable to participate in anything over a 1v1 duel. They’d be useless in party play, such as zerg vs zerg, dungeons, many personal story missions and high level PvE. No class should be limited in that way.
As for block. I’ll be fine with that so long as Aegis is change to an alternate effect, that functions like block but isn’t block. Or make it so Guardians have something that functions like aegis but isn’t a block, but still behaves like a block. Guardians have it too good to be allowed any free passes.

noobftw.9654:

Dual.8953:

noobftw.9654:

Dual.8953:

noobftw.9654:

Aberrant.6749:

Thedenofsin.7340:

I’d challenge any dev to pick any class/spec other than perma-stealth thief and try to solo a perma-stealth thief.

I’d challenge any 3 developers to pick any class/spec other than perma-stealth thief and try to solo a perma-stealth thief.

I’d challenge 5 to try solo a good perma-stealth thief.

Guard, Mes, Eng > Thief solo.

dueling wise maybe, condition engi rules 1v1, guardian counters burst thief well enough. But ‘solo’ does not equal to dueling.

Thief has the best escape mechanismS in game, spammable stealth and spammable teleport, and spammable leap. They don’t need to win a single duel to be the best roamer in wvw.

So they can travel fine, not much to write home about. People complain that Thieves are OP, yet Gaurdians can out do pretty much every class in almost everything important in WvW, (not to mention are considered extremely viable in all modes) and no one screams nerf at them. Double Standard much. (Well back to WvW, Staff 4 and hammer to win ppl)

Becareful on the thief op accusation. They are just fine in spvp, a little weak in tourny, does ok in wvw zerg fight. But ridiculously OP in wvw roaming. Maybe you should really think about what thieves can do as wvw roamers.

So far all I’ve got is killing Dolyaks, Scouting, Killing Sentries, killing newbies, harrassing veterns, contesting places, running supplies, hiding mesmers, setting traps. Really apart from the mesmer and traps thing, there’s not much thieves can do to contribute to their server’s points tick.

There are a couple of more nasty tricks thieves can do.

But even in your list of crimes alone, reliable scouting contributes big time to the outcome of zerg fight. And WP contesting greatly hinders the sustainability of enemy zerg. What makes things worse is often time a small group of zerg would try to take care of the roaming thief in pointless fights instead of doing what they are supposed to do. Of course most likely they will failed to get him, which is kinda bad on morale. All other things you mentioned helps too. Even killing upleveled noobs would help send them to sleep.

I suppose, but I feel much more productive hopping on my Guard or Engie and running with a zerg. We’ve got some pretty disiplined zergs on our server.

Torment falls right in line with the Mesmer ideal, since GW1 it’s been thier role to Suppress, Control, and Punish thier opponents. Doesn’t make as much sense for it to be a Thief Venom but it suits Thieves fine too.
Guardian’s may not excel at kiting but they’re far from in desperate need of torment. Guards perform well in all modes. Enjoy that fact.

Why not both and glasses while they’re at it?

noobftw.9654:

Dual.8953:

noobftw.9654:

Aberrant.6749:

Thedenofsin.7340:

I’d challenge any dev to pick any class/spec other than perma-stealth thief and try to solo a perma-stealth thief.

I’d challenge any 3 developers to pick any class/spec other than perma-stealth thief and try to solo a perma-stealth thief.

I’d challenge 5 to try solo a good perma-stealth thief.

Guard, Mes, Eng > Thief solo.

dueling wise maybe, condition engi rules 1v1, guardian counters burst thief well enough. But ‘solo’ does not equal to dueling.

Thief has the best escape mechanismS in game, spammable stealth and spammable teleport, and spammable leap. They don’t need to win a single duel to be the best roamer in wvw.

So they can travel fine, not much to write home about. People complain that Thieves are OP, yet Gaurdians can out do pretty much every class in almost everything important in WvW, (not to mention are considered extremely viable in all modes) and no one screams nerf at them. Double Standard much. (Well back to WvW, Staff 4 and hammer to win ppl)

Becareful on the thief op accusation. They are just fine in spvp, a little weak in tourny, does ok in wvw zerg fight. But ridiculously OP in wvw roaming. Maybe you should really think about what thieves can do as wvw roamers.

So far all I’ve got is killing Dolyaks, Scouting, Killing Sentries, killing newbies, harrassing veterns, contesting places, running supplies, hiding mesmers, setting traps. Really apart from the mesmer and traps thing, there’s not much thieves can do to contribute to their server’s points tick.

noobftw.9654:

Aberrant.6749:

Thedenofsin.7340:

I’d challenge any dev to pick any class/spec other than perma-stealth thief and try to solo a perma-stealth thief.

I’d challenge any 3 developers to pick any class/spec other than perma-stealth thief and try to solo a perma-stealth thief.

I’d challenge 5 to try solo a good perma-stealth thief.

Guard, Mes, Eng > Thief solo.

dueling wise maybe, condition engi rules 1v1, guardian counters burst thief well enough. But ‘solo’ does not equal to dueling.

Thief has the best escape mechanismS in game, spammable stealth and spammable teleport, and spammable leap. They don’t need to win a single duel to be the best roamer in wvw.

So they can travel fine, not much to write home about. People complain that Thieves are OP, yet Gaurdians can out do pretty much every class in almost everything important in WvW, (not to mention are considered extremely viable in all modes) and no one screams nerf at them. Double Standard much. (Well back to WvW, Staff 4 and hammer to win ppl)

There’s already a thread for this. You can approach downed in a few ways; take advantage of it’s benefits and learn to work with it, or ignore/reject it and fall prey to those that take advantage of it.

I’ve never seen a hacker in any mode and I’ve been here since the betas. You want to see a game that has let hackers get out of control to contrast? See S4 League.

I’m currently leveling my mesmer in PvE, and am trying to find what ways I can sustain myself in combat. My normal heals are pretty low so I’m finding I complete all my engagements as quickly as possible.

GuardianOMS.8067:

Dante.1508:

Jrunyon.3012:

I don’t think you have ever actually played a thief. Don’t make suggestions when you know nothing of what you’re talking about.

I have a level 80 thief and i agree with the OP, they are totally unbalanced, broken and stealth has no counters, they need fixing ASAP..

The only balance is to remove stealth from the game, which isn’t happening. There should never be a reason a class in a MMO should have 100% damage mitigation with a way to keep it up permanently and be unseen to your opponent. But that’s just my opinion. :V

100%? Try 0%. Stealth is an illusion, the stealther still takes 100% damage when hit. They may not be seeable but they certainly still have to avoid crossfire and blindfire. You want 100% mitigation? See Guardian, Elementalist, Mesmers, Engineers and Warriors.

Gnat.9405:

You say “this time around” as if something has changed

It’s different from the last bunch of events where you where you could sink a ton of gold or gems into boxes and get nothing.

At least these are items that everyone can attain without luck.

In Guild Wars 1, Everyone one pretty much stood still or moved slowly, it was easy for the Assassin Class to pick a target and Shadowstep to it. In Guild Wars 2, everyone is moving and dodging about so Shadowsteps aren’t effective at getting you to enemies in the back row, thus they opted for stealth instead. It achieved all the positioning ends of Shadowstep, but was more adaptable when the enemy moved.

Also, if a Thief couldn’t attack from stealth, they’d be in a worse place than Warriors are now. Everyone would just dodge their Backstabs and Tactical Strikes.

XII.9401:

Dual.8953:

Fenrir.5493:

So, you need to be a fortune teller or able to see the future in order to prevent someone from one shot you from stealth…. seems reasonable.

No. You need logic.
Anything X/D will need to land CnD to stealth so kite the user and they’ll either have to use a utility to stealth, and those are on 30+ cooldowns. Hide in Shadow and Blinding Powder last 3 seconds, as with CnD and CnD can’t be used before the stealth ends naturally. In other words. Make yourself hard to hit for 3 seconds.
As for Shadow Refuge, it can last up to 12 second but it’s pretty obvious when it’s used. It also is one of the most counterable stealths because it confines the user to a small space and if they leave or are forced out via knockback the user will be stuck with Revealed.
D/P is probably thief’s strongest set, despite being very initiative hungry. It can stack stealth via leap finisher into its smoke field, however if its Heartseeker hits something it’ll instantly lose that stealth when stacking so a lot more difficult to stack while engaged. Though stackable, each individual leap is worth 3 seconds.

On to Backstab. Backstab has an 806 damage rating. Half the strength of 100blades in one shot and it’s users commonly use a trait to ensure the skill will always crit. However the skill is short range and it’s damage is halved if it strikes the front of the target. Unless it’s the initial strike, the thief will have 3 seconds to land it, which can be diffcult if the target takes preventative measures. In a fight, when a D/x thief stealths, 9/10 times they are going to try to get behind you. A warning sign for an initial strike backstab is Basilisk Venom. If you’re toon turns grey, that’s your cue to pop a stunbreak. If performed correctly the thief will have blown his opening strike and attack buff utilities they had used in preparation. In addition, it’s rare that a backstab or even a backstab combo can one shot a player, and it’s impossible against players that aren’t going glass cannon.

The long and short of it is, most stealths last 3 seconds, backstab only hits high from behind, and you should be ready to react in WvW at anytime, not just because or thieves, but because anything can come over the hill and gank you.

Also a pro tip. Run an armour set with Toughness in it. Gear like Knight’s and Soldier’s will make you so much more useful to your server then Berserker’s.

You remind me of someone named Columba.

Cool..play a non stealth class and lets see you predict the ambush.

Also, Why should everyone else run toughness gear to combat a single class while the thief can get away with being a glass cannon? This is GUild wars 2 not Thief wars 2 where everyone has to build their class around your own..

I run gear like Knight’s and Rabid on my 80s, and I’ve seen what a difference it can make. A 20 man Zerg of players wearing Soldiers can rofl stomp an 40 man zerg of players running Zerker’s. Small and short of it, if you aren’t specced into survival in WvW, you’re doing your server a disservice, you’re just rally bait and the zerg would be better off without you.

Would make Pug stomping a whole lot easier.

I think if you want that, they’d need to change how the game scales in that server, or you’d trivialize everything below the level 80 zones. I already can one to two shot enemies in Queensdale, and if you take anything below the 70s to an 80 zone the mobs will likely one shot you.
Well if that really floats your boat I guess, though I warn yah, you’re losing your ability to party with lowbies.

I’d like Dragons that actually move. Stomp around the area wrecking all in their wake, like fighting a Veteran Karka on steroids.

Setun.4368:

Easiest, and most reliable counter to stealth that wouldn’t break the class would be to just make it so that there’s a silhouette of the character when they’re in x-vision radius in front of your character (i.e. 150m frontal cone in front of you). That is close enough so that people with good situational awareness will be able to keep up with them, yet makes it so that a good juke by the thief / mesmer will be rewarded. Also I 100% agree that Rangers above all the other classes should have some way of countering stealth. Be it that their pets can see them and continue to attack / track them if the thief / mesmer stays in say a 300-450 vision range, or something, but blinding whacking the air in the hopes of finding the sneaky kitten is something that should not be common place.

When you say 150m, we talking sword cleave range or 150 meters? (It also makes me wonder how it’d effect thieves in large battles. They’re designed to sneak past the enemy line to strike the back row, this could put a huge damper on their ability to fulfill that roll)

Nikkinella.8254:

Notice how now after they nerf ele into oblivion there are all these thief hate threads. A lot of people played ele before because of the survival. All we were able to do is run away and hit for crap damage, rarely ever killing anyone and just being annoying. A lot of us got sick of the constant nerfs, so started rolling thieves since they have the mobility we USED TO have and also have the benefit of dealing 4 times the damage as ele and can stealth and reset the fight till we get the desired outcome of you being dead and us dancing on your corpse. So you’ve gotta ask yourself the question, which was worse? A mobile ele who was just a nuisance that you couldn’t kill, but also couldn’t kill you, or a thief who keeps harassing you till you die almost 2 shotting you while you cant see them?

Considering TPvP is somewhat the balance focal point, and at that time your “low damage, undying Eles” where more demanded than Zerker Warriors in CoF speedruns, because they could hold points like a champ and could cover a lot of distance fast, that’s why Eles got the nerf bat. (Not to mention being the only class that could block treb shots along with being good in a zerg)
Thieves on the other hand, are on the lower end in TPvP, even lower in PvE and only really good at Dolyaks, Senties and stomping Pugs who haven’t learned their tricks in WvW. Sure most of the roamers you see a thieves, but that mostly because all the other classes are running around in zergs actually taking towers and things. (AKA: Accomplishing things for their server)

Nikkinella.8254:

We’ll probably never get a fair counter to stealth as it is Anet’s golden child. one of the devs mains a thief so they’re pretty biased on the whole balance issue.

Oh so that’s why thieves are top tier in everything, and people look down their noses at them when they lfg for dungeons. One of the Devs mains a thief. You realize that’s a stupid argument right? It completely ignores the fact that other devs main other classes.

Iluth.6875:

Dual.8953:

It’s annoying. Thieves are weak at everything but minor feats in wvw like killing dolyaks, and weakened opponents. They’re practically more newbie check then they an actual class. In PvE, they’re that damage class with less dps and support then warrior. In Spvp, they’re that dueling class that can’t hold a point. Yet that doesn’t stop people from demanding that they get nerfed at the one thing they’re good at.

Have you seen the endless aoe thieves can do with cluster bomb? Thieves dont have any problems in a zerg unless they were unfortunate enough to go full zerker.

Not to mention having the best survivability in wvw? (notice I didn’t say mitigation) How about the best burst damage and amazing mobility?

Amazing how people running a low skill threshold two button class can cry about nerfs, since it’s the general consensus that thief is most in need of the hammer right now.

They roam fine, and they zerg fine. I guess it’s just hard to see how unbalanced they are when you’re running one as your only toon. Try having an 80 of each class and playing them for long enough to get a good understanding of how each one works, then you will see how broken thief is.

I’ve got an 80 Engie and Guardian too. I have no trouble with thieves on them, or any of my upleveleds. They feel like easy mode compared to my Thief, able to hold thier own against up to 5 opponents. Short bow can’t even compare in a zerg to coated bullets or staff. I can kill easier on them and take on more enemies at once, so why should I see Thief as op’d when my other 80s make it look like a joke, and other thieves don’t even remotely threaten any of my toons?

Kind of gets rid of the whole point of Tormented, doesn’t it?
If they want Condi’s optimal for dungeons, the need to change the encounters, not the Conditions.

Astral Projections.7320:

They never had dyeable underwear in Guild Wars 1, just that ugly grey color. I think one of the reasons they don’t make it dyeable is that some people would then dye it to match their skin color as close as possible so when they are without armor they look nude. Even though they aren’t actually nude, people running around LA apparently naked would spark a lot of complaints.

Maybe if instead of the standard one color, ANet could give you a set of colors like the starter colors you get at character creation. You could then use those colors to dye your underwear while avoiding the “naked players” problem.

Or make them interact in a way that makes it obvious they’re clothed no matter what.

I’m all for improved customization.

I’d like that.
15 characters thing

If the leaked changes are true, I’m feeling rather optimistic. My build will be an absolute nightmare for Guardians and Elementalist. And demoting Coated Bullets to Master, may free my trait points.

What build are you using on your engie? I just need about 10.

Hickeroar.9734:

bladie.5084:

Hickeroar.9734:

Dual.8953:

Hickeroar.9734:

Yocairo.4257:

Thief’s perspective here:
IMO it’s justified to stealth stomp in this meta game, and for one good reason. I suggest everyone tries to make a thief and finish off a player without stealth. You will realize half the time a player can actually down you if you have +-5k hp left after a fight, not to forget if he has a friend and you DON’T stealthstomp him, you are dead, simple as that.

Take this any way you like, whether stealth is OP or not, without it thieves would be like a turtle without a shell. There would need to be a complete class haul over for it to even work, peace

Thieves are a medium armor class sharing the same health pool as eles and guardians.

Eles, in light armor, are forced to spike people without the aid of stealth. Why do thieves get a break when their armor value is better?

Don’t run glass, and you have nothing to worry about.

Because Ele’s can bunker, have all the heals, access to aoe burning and bleeds, ect. Why even stomp when you can dps the opponent down just as fast while keeping your guard up? Also, even in Knight’s Armour Thieves are still squishy, and Soldier’s Thieves have trouble just plain killing.

You do realize that bunker eles really don’t deal that much damage, right? They win by wearing the enemy down over time.

And how does an ele wear the enemy down over time? Being rewarded with rotation of attunement and speccing into the ultimate tanking/healing/condition removing ele with a bundance of boons. And don’t forget their graceful up to par, in combat mobility as well.

Your 2nd post defeats your 1st post.

No, my second proves my first. Eles have to do this crap with cloth armor. They wear appropriately specced armor to the fight. Thieves should have to do the same, except ANet gave them a cheat tactic.

What’s really hilarious is that thieves can stealth…then ANet will ban non-thieves for stealth-hacking to accomplish the exact same stuff thieves use it for.

Yup…makes perfect sense. “Cheating.”

Hacking? That’s really the arguement you’re going with? Really?
Zerker thieves, save for the hotshots, generally avoid large fights. I know this may be hard to believe, but the zerker thief can’t take a lot of damage (especially from stray fire) and doesn’t have cantrips, or protection, or auras; and can’t go from 5 to full health at the touch of a button.
Also, Really?

I’ve been noticing a lot of commanders gaining experience and employing new tactics. Zergs are becoming more disiplined. What if they upped the challenge and added some new abilities to WvW.

First would be Commander Vision. The ability to see enemy commanders. You’d be able to see the on you normal screen as say a red command tag. Of course they wouldn’t be visible on the map views. This may sound over powered, openning up the commander to be ganked, disorganizing the pugs, but commanders have already found ways around this, asking thier zerg to target them. Some vetern wvwers even know their commanders on sight and have little need for commander tags.
The next ability would be for solo players to tag things, not as an unlock.
We also could give commanders a “target me” emote and a new chat colour so thier commands would stand out in WvW.

What are your thoughts? I think it could add a new layer of play to WvW. Heck, if their skilled enough, small groups could start targetting commanders to upset unskilled zergs

Hickeroar.9734:

Dual.8953:

Hickeroar.9734:

Yocairo.4257:

Thief’s perspective here:
IMO it’s justified to stealth stomp in this meta game, and for one good reason. I suggest everyone tries to make a thief and finish off a player without stealth. You will realize half the time a player can actually down you if you have +-5k hp left after a fight, not to forget if he has a friend and you DON’T stealthstomp him, you are dead, simple as that.

Take this any way you like, whether stealth is OP or not, without it thieves would be like a turtle without a shell. There would need to be a complete class haul over for it to even work, peace

Thieves are a medium armor class sharing the same health pool as eles and guardians.

Eles, in light armor, are forced to spike people without the aid of stealth. Why do thieves get a break when their armor value is better?

Don’t run glass, and you have nothing to worry about.

Because Ele’s can bunker, have all the heals, access to aoe burning and bleeds, ect. Why even stomp when you can dps the opponent down just as fast while keeping your guard up? Also, even in Knight’s Armour Thieves are still squishy, and Soldier’s Thieves have trouble just plain killing.

You do realize that bunker eles really don’t deal that much damage, right? They win by wearing the enemy down over time.

Burning still is strong against downed foes. And if the strongest Zergs run Soldier’s, does damage really matter in large battles?

Cause I want post an answer:
Engie’s pistol can apply a wider variety of conditions with ease, and hit more opponents at once. Couple that with the traits Coated Bullets and Incindiary Powder and Engie can apply a load of bleeds, burnings, poisons and confusions to just about everything in front of them. Makes Thief’s single target bleeds seem very insignifucant in comparison.
In fact, it makes most other condition classes envious as well, no other class can maintain as many damaging conditions as Engie.

I’m currently running Runes of the Wurm on both my Knight’s and Valkyrie’s Sets and I’m wondering if anyone has a better suggestion. I usually go S/D, Sb but can go any set as needed.

Gasoline.2570:

Dual.8953:

Your armour seems a tad low? What’s your armour?

Uhh, it’s low, of course.

My bad. Postin on the job. Meant toughness.

Your armour seems a tad low? What’s your toughness?

Hickeroar.9734:

Yocairo.4257:

Thief’s perspective here:
IMO it’s justified to stealth stomp in this meta game, and for one good reason. I suggest everyone tries to make a thief and finish off a player without stealth. You will realize half the time a player can actually down you if you have +-5k hp left after a fight, not to forget if he has a friend and you DON’T stealthstomp him, you are dead, simple as that.

Take this any way you like, whether stealth is OP or not, without it thieves would be like a turtle without a shell. There would need to be a complete class haul over for it to even work, peace

Thieves are a medium armor class sharing the same health pool as eles and guardians.

Eles, in light armor, are forced to spike people without the aid of stealth. Why do thieves get a break when their armor value is better?

Don’t run glass, and you have nothing to worry about.

Because Ele’s can bunker, have all the heals, access to aoe burning and bleeds, ect. Why even stomp when you can dps the opponent down just as fast while keeping your guard up? Also, even in Knight’s Armour Thieves are still squishy, and Soldier’s Thieves have trouble just plain killing.

akamon.2769:

quick question here.. so i play a Guard, and have had my fair share of being stealth stomped whether it be WvW or PvP. i guess i don’t understand the stealth mechanics that well yet. so when a thief throws down shadow refuge, i can knock him out of it. is it because they haven’t reached the full duration yet so they are just pseudo-stealthed? then i am assuming that even if stealth, you can hit them, so they wouldn’t be immune to CC or knockbacks. but when i am downed, they run up, stealth, my downed skill #2 bubble knockback rarely affects them.

am i missing something? they didn’t have stability on. some cases, i was blinded as well so there’s one explanation. though other times, i don’t think i was blinded.

Could be the trait Cloaked in Shadow. It makes it so thieves proc an aoe blind when stealthing. Blind’s the only thing in the Thief’s arsenal that saves them the Guardian’s bubble. Makes stealth stomping stronger though it’s still interruptable by friendlies though.
Personally I find Dpsing downed opponents more effective than stomping. (Especially on my Pistol Engie)

Guardian with higher HP would be rediculous. We have plenty of access to cleanses through Traits and Light combo fields. If Guards had high HP, all they’d need is to grab a hammer and just auto-attack through everything.

Should try what one of my guildies does, setting the voice overs to German.

Yeah, only off cooldown. Signets are supposed to make you choose between thier active and passive.

riverfish.4173:

I really doubt they don’t test new content before it goes live, but it would be nice if they made sure content works completely before releasing it instead of posting known issues in the bugs section and thinking that is good enough

I’d imagine somethings just can’t be tested without a full server load.

Victory.2879:

Did I miss the bit in the trap description where it says ‘thief becomes rooted in place and is unable to use any skills or move whatsoever’?

Whoopee you are revealed- now you actually have to learn to use some skill instead of just disappearing whenever you want to- poor you.

Welcome to how the rest of us play all the time:-)

If you can’t cope with running over the extremely rare anti stealth trap (anyone actually use them? cost is too high, area of effect is too small) then you really need to go play something else.

It’s not about that. Any other class can cope with using 4 skills because almost all of their skills are strong and attack based. Thieves sets on other hand only have 1 attack skill,
one stealth attack skill, and 3 skills that deal low damage and fulfill some utility purpose.
D/D would have only heartseeker and deathblossom (weak condition move on a power build is fluff), D/P would have heartseeker, but at least it’s still blind city, S/D would only have Flanking Strike and P/D gets a big old goose egg because none of it’s attacks have over 505 per hit, most don’t have over 200 power and all but one are single hit.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Dual.8953:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

All we need is Shadow Form in place of stealth.

We’d have more invulnerability uptime then all the classes up together.

Huh?

PvP shadowform was invulnerability.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Shadow_Form_

Well there’s this version too

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Shadow_Form

Kind of like super protection

Navzar.2938:

Dual.8953:

Navzar.2938:

I don’t think thief buffs should focus on stealth buffs. They rely too much on it already.

This isn’t so much a buff as a change. If stealth is visible it needs something to make it truly defensive or it’s useless.

Huh? I didn’t see anything about being visible in your first post. I thought you just wanted a version stealth that’s the same but makes things glance as well.

If you mean a stealth that’s visible to enemies in the way you currently see your own stealthed character but makes incoming blows glance, then yes I’m all for that sort of thing, I’d actually been thinking of something similar. Of course that sort of update would have to be carefully tested for the right % glancing before being implemented because stealth thieves are actually very tanky already. This version would also allow thieves to cap while stealthed of course.

Yeah, sorry, missed the whole point of Shroud. The thief’d be semi visible and have a chance at being glanced rather then directly hit. /derp

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

eldain stenlund.4306:

we got into a fight with a mesmer.

Got mesmer down. was about to use the stomp.

I had 12 k hp left of my 20 total..

I saw a poff of smoke.. and then i was dead. looking at the target that killed me.
a Thief…

My first reaction was… wtf realy ?? 12 k hp.. insta killed. on heavy armor… seriously.

WTF is wrong with the Designers that should balance this game.

On top of the supreem mobility on a thief. it has invisibility. that not even Dots uncloak… they dont even leave a bleeding trail or anything… just… gone.
And Also thieves have this stupidly insane op burst dmg, wich you cant realy protect yourself against… your dead before you react.

Because the fight is like this most of the times:
I target a thief.. i start to shoot at him..he notice he gets dmg and vanish…
switch weapons to prepare melee…
2 seconds later. you see a poff of smoke around you.. THIEF…
You start to swing.. “my hp is fine, i get this”… “WTF.. iam down already ? its 2 seconds into fight”…

My warrior in 20 k hp.. have actually been 3 hitted by a thief..
It was the most stupid thing i have ever seen.
Sure, that thief had full zerker gear and low hp…
but who needs hp if you can 3 hit 20 k hp…

Feck, i dont want to know the dmg they can do against Light armor.
But i heard ppl in my guild getting 1 hitted………..

Maybe they should increase our base armor ? (like alot)…
Or nerf the thief insane dmg abit ?

I usualy find my thiev very boring to lvl… but iam REALY starting to think about joining the stupidly op side and lvl my thief to 80 also.

one in my guild occupied 6 ppl for 15 minutes…then they got lucky and could chain lock him.
So thieves are also super trollers… REALY good balance by A-net…

Don’t play WvW. Go to tPvP where Thieves are side gimmicks and things that I laugh at on a regular basis.

Honestly, I will agree that Thieves are blatantly overpowered in WvW, but if they were to nerf them, they have to separate WvW/PvP/PvE so as to avoid breaking the class.

Why bother? They’re already one step about Ranger’s in dungeons and one step of Warrior’s in TPvP. If you want them useless in the roaming in WvW, why not go all in?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

All we need is Shadow Form in place of stealth.

We’d have more invulnerability uptime then all the classes up together.

Navzar.2938:

I don’t think thief buffs should focus on stealth buffs. They rely too much on it already.

This isn’t so much a buff as a change. If stealth is visible it needs something to make it truly defensive or it’s useless.

Mattargul.9235:

Dual.8953:

This won’t help small groups defeat zergs, it’ll just strengthen zergs against each other.

The zerg breaker will cause large zergs to basically shred themselves or retreat. That’s what it’s meant to do. With this, if you have 20 and go against 40 and assuming an even slightly geometric damage curve, the 40 would die pretty kitten quickly, even if both sides deploy ZBs.

Dual.8953:

And you won’t break up the zerging with this because let’s face it, no one is going to 5 man Stonemist or any of the larger towers. If anything this’ll just make keeps and tower impossible to take when defended.

This tool is not meant to enable 5 people to solo SM…? ACs make any fortification with defenders pretty safe, because rams are useless against a gate guarded by 5+ ACs. Unless you ninja a keep or tower, you already need a large force to protect your catapults or trebs, which are your only way past the walls.

I don’t think ANet can provide any incentive that will cause people to abandon zergs, unless they hand out precursors to anyone who solos a camp. Anything less than that and people will stick with the easier and safer zerg. I am with the group approaching the issue from the other side, i.e. penalizing zerg-sized groups.

This is not taking away from running your 20 man group in a smart way with tactics, and strategy and a cherry on top, rather it should protect you from getting run over by 40-50 man groups, who rely blindly on quantity > quality. Smart super-sized zergs might still give you a hard time, because they may only send in a safe number of 25 to engage, while the remaining group circles around and cuts off your escape.

If a zerg can draw orange swords on a single roamer, I think you’ll probably be dead before the breaker has a chance to kill them, unless you’ve placed in well enough ahead of time. The breaker may be more useful if it was visible, then at least it’d make them have to run around it.