Guild Wars 2

People don’t focus on P/P because its average dps coupled with its inability to handle multiple targets, so it’s only decent in situations like DPSing down a boss, or in ranged skirmishes. But if the P/P user gets focused by multiple foes, they’ll, likely crumple.

Teamkiller.4315:

DanH.5879:

PVE
thief:
1.traps suck big time
2.venoms have to small range for sharing
3.burst is meh
4.dps is far behind a warrior
5.mobility is NOT so very good without 15 in acrobatics
6.let’s say that the lowest hp/med armor combo compensates with stealth to stay alive, but the new “dont drop agro on stealth mechanic make things difficult”
7.almost NO boons, no team support except stealth res
8.blindness ineffective at bosses, also 1/2 duration of vulnerability&weakness
9.shared initiative system on all weapons

warrior:
1.banners 600 range: 2 super boons up for everyone in party !
2.invulnerability
3.top dps
4.highest hp/heavy armor
5.good condition remover (remove 1 condition on shout+ Shake It Off!=2 on 1 skill, Mending-remove 2 conditions then heal etc.)-contrary to “low condition removal” stated by a-net
6.good bursts
7.boons like 3 might stacks and fury for everyone in party
8.mobility via rush and other skills
9.switching weapon sets you get fresh skills

This post is so insanely slanted it’s not even funny. I know you are being serious, but I can’t take you seriously.

Slanted or not, there’s definitely a reason thieves get turned down and warriors get demanded in PvE situations.

yiksing.9432:

Stealth is too good, no other profession can drop “target” like the thief except maybe the mesmer. Although I am not good at thief yet but i really love how great thieves are able to maximize stealth potential even though they serve me my butt on a diamond platter.

Yeah. Here’s the thing. Stealth isn’t too good, players can outthink it. Thieves have the lowest tolerance for intesity in the game, so they’re given the ability to blow it off briefly.
There’s a reason you don’t see thieves holding points like every other class in the game. If we could cap in stealth we would, but out alternative defenses are lacking.

Teamkiller.4315:

Your assumption was backwards progression is the reason that idea shouldn’t be put in place. Lol, you need to justify why backwards progression is bad in the first place, otherwise you’re presuming what you need to prove. It’s similar to circular logic, which is akin to “I’m right because I said so.”

You still do not need to hit 1 to ensure the other, you just have to press 3, and then larcenous strike is available for you to use. The entirety of your strategy now hinges on you being able to land larcenous strike, which if your target is in melee range is EXTREMELY easy since it is unblockable. Given its half second cast time it’s extremely hard to pull off a blind in time to counter it and one only gets two dodges while FS + LS can be used 4 times almost back to back. Basically there isn’t really counterplay involved because the thief can really just spam FS+LS and still benefit from it. He isn’t going to take much damage making it low risk because of FS’s evade, LS cannot be blocked, and if he forces a dodge out of you he’s still up because he can perform it four times whereas you only have two dodges. Blocking FS is useless because it doesn’t actually do anything except deny the thief YOUR aegis, if you were using that to block it. Vigor, you say? Oh, it’s gone because of LS. The only classes with enough boons to really still have them after the thief’s done spamming 333333333 are eles and guardians which this was supposed to counter (it doesn’t really); whereas the rest of the classes are now kinda screwed against a thief with their boons.

Not complaining about the ini system. Complaining about how relatively low risk and disproportionately beneficial it is to spam LS on all opponents regardless of their status. The heavy burst damage is now the unblockable portion, which is absolutely stupid.

I would be actually fine if you switched the damage on flanking strike and larcenous strike, but I feel like not getting larcenous if flanking is avoided is better for balance.

If that happens, what’s not to stop things from reverting back to the old meta where only D/P is ever considered because FS is too hard to land? It’s already difficult to get an efficient kill with a sword. Why remove its only lethal edge again? You say “counterplay” but how counterplay equate to, “giving the opponent the upper hand”. Currently Flanking Strike, is a pretty clear warning that Larcenous Strike is coming. If it’s doing too well now, it’s probably because the general playerbase hasn’t adjusted to it yet, so why not wait and see if players learn to recognize and adjust to the tell?

Huge 3 way ZvZvZ in Garrison. I dropped my supply crate and got my monthly kills a minute later.

Chest and boot armour toggle plz

I’d prefer moving twice as fast during Unload. Make it more versatile as a kiting skill then a simple evade.
I’d prefer if Headshot just shot quicker, like a borderline instant cast.

Not much actually.

ensoriki.5789:

Fade.7658:

No mention of an increase of animation speed, nor a damage decrease. It looks like Larcenous strike pops up after the animation of Flanking strike and costs 1 init to use.

A chain skill?
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK.

R.I.P my build.
I knew they’d pull something to mess it up.

It should be pointed out that they said Flanking Strike would now cost 3 init. So Flanking Strike + Larcenous Strike should still cost the same as old Flanking Strike.

I’m liking my build. 0/30/30/10/0 right now. The key traits are in SA, Cloaked in Shadows, Shadowed Protector and Shadows Embrace. Utilities are Withdraw, Blinding Powder, Shadow Refuge, Signet of Shadows/Smoke Wall, Daggerstorm, and I’m currently wearing Valk gear. Haven’t thoroughly tested it in WvW, but it has been doing well enough in Dungeons. For offhands I switch between Sb, and P/P, and I use Air and Accuracy Sigils.

I’m not sure what the build was but I’ve seen se pretty tanky Necros in WvW. So I don’t think you’re without options.

We only get Basalisk Venom.

Yeah. My guild actually has a team dedicated to fighting Komali. The prereq to join the team is it needs to be a class with non-damaging boon strips. Komali gains his boons on hit iirc.

Invizible.2960:

Olba.5376:

… People really can’t count beyond a simple 1,2,3?

Its not really about the counting part, its that it feels weird to play now. Its not as smooth as with the 3 second reveal.

To compound this I notice stealth isn’t there when I need it a lot more. Makes some intense situations harder then they should be. Especially considering any other class could just waltz in a wreck face unhindered. I don’t build glassy and I find I get into that situation where revealed is still up and I’m in dire need of some healing or condition removal and it feels like those scenes in monster movies where the survivor gets on an elevator and is waiting for the door to close as the monster charges at them.

Here’s a nice trade off. You know communal skill points and resource nodes that are guarded by pesky champions and veterans? You can use SR and commune/gather without having to fight them. Sb’s also pretty good for getting past traps.
That said it doesn’t do much for us stats wise.

Yes! Very Yes!!

Pet Roller Beetles need to happen. The active skill can be a charging CC knockdown. Wouldn’t mind Shelk or Skales too. Maybe some form of the Steam Beasts and more Avian pets?

Monk Gerwin.7039:

Yes, stealth. Really fun, isn’t it? Only if you’re a thief. I’m seeing too many stealth-thiefs in WvW. They just use a combo of stealth skills and traits that enhance stealth.

And guess what, they’re uncatchable! We had like 10 players after 1 thief. The thief was useless, couldn’t down or kill anyone. No not even close. But annoying as hell, continuously. (For a dozen of minutes and then he logged off.)

My question is: What’s the whole purpose of stealth? And does using stealth like this serve that purpose? Be useful, learn to fight and let us fight. If you want to troll, go do a different game that’s not built around sociality.

Purpose?
Here’s plenty:
-All of thief’s survival is tied to stealth, evade and blind. Blind is inverse aegis, making it only effective against small groups, and evades are limited. (And armour and HP don’t cut it)
-Stealth Skills, on stealth sets, the stealth skill is their defining skill. A good example of this is P/D. The set would be horrible if not for it’s access to Sneak Attack.
-Condition Removal, thief’s best condition removal is in a stealth trait. Theives have low vitality making the susceptible to condition. And unlike Guardian and Ele, they don’t cleanse every few seconds without stealth, and don’t have the other two classes healing without it.

To sum it all up, a Thief without stealth is for all intensive purposes is the severely dumbed down Warrior, to the point of being completely incapable of participating in some content.

Thief’s job is to tempt fate and get behind your lines, kill your weak or injured, harrass your assaulters, and get out. Just like the class’ predecessor Assassin. If they screw up they’re dead, if they succeed, they make you look like fools. Like it or not, the class and its is a huge draw to some players, and it’s not going anywhere.

2 stuns on S/D? There’s a daze and immobilize and the daze is four secs now due to the nerf.

LordByron.8369:

naphack.9346:

….

the issue is..

Take thief..

You need positioning, you need to carefully plan your opener, and then you need even luck maybe to hit target in the back.

So you basically need skill to max your opening damage, and that PvE wise could be even balanced.

Now lets bring that to pvp.

Lets think to an hypotethical thief class that can stealth, have 50% chances of 1shotting from stealth but if he misses he is dead.

Now seems even a bad class, it requires skill to set up the kill and luck to connect.

But when it happens this simply do not take in account target ability….you have the same chances to kill a newbie or a pro player.

If you see that as a fight of numbers could be balanced….but its not for the target….he has the right to influence the outcome of the battle…he is not a NPC!
This is first issue.

Then we have dev stetement about PREDICT thief attacks….
Again its all OK if the thief is a NPC with a fixed pattern.

Its not, its a PLAYER that can FAKE a stealth usual chain attack (or escape) making it again a matter of LUCK and not skill.

Classic example is thief using shadow refuge and running away with other stealth skills.

So despite this situation could be even non viable or strongly against thieves, its not balanced…..
Its just randomic at best, but takes away the ability of one of the 2 contendents to influence with skill the outcome of the fight.

This is why thief says “hey its hard for us to use our spike damage on you so its balanced!” while Others “hey how can be balanced if i cannot REACT (not predict)”.

So nerfing is not the right road to go, changing its the one….

P.S: same concept works for 100nades see above ^^^

P.P.S. example…if i was a dev i would make most infamous Attacks to deal dmg as a % of opponent health….so they would have the same effect on tanks and GC.

Except the Backstab isn’t a true one shot, it’s a combo, and it’s not uncommon for it to require heartseeker to finish the kill. It’s also not impossible to react to the Mug+CnD and avoid the Backstab component. The combo runs the balance of being avoidable but not easily avoidable. And more avoidable and it runs the risk of becoming useless. And less and it becomes truely op’d.

lordkrall.7241:

WP is a gold sink.
Charging karma would remove that gold sink.

This pretty much. The richer people get, the more TP prices rise.

So you’re talking about the heal?

Leeto.1570:

Strayhand.8216:

Leeto.1570:

Ah good to hear that he can beat bad thief on ranger in 1v1, thief`s must be really fine or our dev just is not completely handicapped. Good news either way.

So if a ranger beat a thief, then the thief must be bad, but if a thief beats bads in videos, he must be OP. The double standards again, welcome to MMO forums.

Ye cause ranger can totally log into wvwvw and kill group of 5 people and then escape any zerg… everybody is annoyed by thief in wvwvw not in sPVP environment. You may say wvwvw doesnt matter or whatever but theres no reason why 7 professions should play wvwvw one way and then thief just walks wherever he wants in god mode.

Eles can do that too pretty much. And for roaming, all you need is a regular speed buff and a good sense of map awareness.

Like this one?
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Usoku%27s_Needle

bhagwad.4281:

phor.7952:

bhagwad.4281:

What I said was that no matter what the class, no other profession can solo five people regardless of skill level on either side. No single person should be able to harass a group of 5 people no matter how unskilled they are.

Because it’s impossible to become five times more skilled than even the noobest character. I’ll take a team with 15 poor players against 5 of the top notch pros in the world any day.

Whether you like it or not, including “no matter how skilled” in your argument is an admission that you’re referencing bad players because the only evidence presented showing a single person taking on 5 people has been a good thief against really bad players.

I would COMPLETELY agree that it would be OP if a thief were able to take out 5 good players. Hell, even 2 good players is a stretch as long as they’re not geared berserker and get caught off guard.

But the evidence presented only proves that a thief is “OP” against bad players.
And you simply can’t balance a game around bad players. It’s a waste of time.

You can certainly balance against bad players when there are enough of them. The fact remains that no class other than thief can kill 5 bad players solo. They can at most try and run or down one or two before dying themselves.

Elementalist says hi. I recall one vid of an ele taking on 8 or so players, and killing all of them.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

I would rather see Stealth nerfed into the ground, and other skills the Thief has buffed to compensate to open up more diversity, so they don’t have to rely on such predictable gimmicky tricks. Honestly the best Thief I know plays S/P even after the nerf, it’s highly unexpected and he uses it extraordinarily well. He’s also probably one of the very few Thieves I actually respect for skill and diversity.

Tried it. They hit the wall against things like Claw of Jormag. Not enough healing or condition removal to survive against things that are immune to their Black Powder. So yes they could use a buff, however, they don’t need to break builds like S/D to do it.

Burnfall.9573:

Marquiz and Dual, I’m a Ranger; don’t know where you came about me being an elementist class. but it’s ok.
If you had paid attention to the video. he clearly states the rangers he easily killed numerous times as being “squishy”.

Just to add, we have been called many names; “squishy”, “complainers”, “clueless”, “dumb” etc

It’s obvious if you’re a thief this shouldn’t sound new to you.

May I repost that video again..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCWywAXmVP4

Obviously he is a good player and I Respect him for that very much. He seem quite Passionate for his class.

Still,
“It doesn’t take a rocket scientist” to play as well as he.
Why so? Thief tools and Mechanics were designed to be OP.

How many keystrokes and skills it takes a thief to OP an opponent? 1-2

Obviously that doesn’t sound OP ?

Only 1 Class is given that Benefit?

Not calling you an Ele.
Someone else in this thread is and he knows who he is. In any case, I’ve seen vids of Rangers rocking in WvW too.
I’ll post it later if you want. Posting on my phone at college currently.

Burnfall.9573:

Here is Hard Evidence in supporting your claims OP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCWywAXmVP4

Than again, who would “Dare” question them in needing nerfs?

Stop using pros vs bads vids as an example. Yishis is very good at what he does, so when you put him against unskilled opponents, of course he’s going to stomp them. If you actually listen to his commentary, you’ll notice he’s very aware of his limits. In one I’ve seens, he’s even ducked out and run knowing his opponents were seasoned players.
Also to a, certain player, you’ve got nerve calling OP when you play Elementalist.

Grab a siege. Revive people. Try some short bow. Try some scorpion wire.

Honestly I feel way more useful in a zerg on my lvl 54 Engie or level 20 Mesmer.

I’m pretty sure Yishis could pull off stuff like that with any profession. Notice how much attention he gives to choosing his target, knowing where the enemy is, and when he’s in over his head. He’s way better then an average player and in his vids he’s commonly picking the easiest targets he can and working his way up. Notice how knows he can’t pull the stunts he pulls against seasoned players.
It creates a very skewed image when you pit a pro like that against a bunch of lowbies and call that an accurate scale of balance.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Dual.8953:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

The biggest problem is stealth. Stealth mechanically denies the opponent information needed to fight properly. Yes, autoattacks can be used to find them (except when they can’t ie Ele and Engy not even HAVING a melee weapon with an attack chain without bringing a utility) but even then it’s swinging in the air hoping that you correctly guessed which direction they went. Even mesmers, the class intended to fight by manipulating information in the fight, only distract and confuse their opponents (barring stealth use), which can be countered by paying attention. Stealth mechanically removes the information from the player’s screen.
Maybe it’s not even OP, but it certainly is not fun. Losing can be fun, but really only when you feel you were outplayed, which is rarely a feeling you get when you are mechanically denied information.
And games are for having fun.

“Fun” is subjective. Some people enjoy the mind games.
Fun is an even more subjective then the concept of overpower, thus it is moot.

Mind games is what mesmer does. Having no feedback at all is not a mind game.

Yes it is. It’s predicting where the stealthed opponent will go. Are they making a break for it or flanking you. What are your weak points you need to cover. Those questions are the very essence of a mind game.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

The biggest problem is stealth. Stealth mechanically denies the opponent information needed to fight properly. Yes, autoattacks can be used to find them (except when they can’t ie Ele and Engy not even HAVING a melee weapon with an attack chain without bringing a utility) but even then it’s swinging in the air hoping that you correctly guessed which direction they went. Even mesmers, the class intended to fight by manipulating information in the fight, only distract and confuse their opponents (barring stealth use), which can be countered by paying attention. Stealth mechanically removes the information from the player’s screen.
Maybe it’s not even OP, but it certainly is not fun. Losing can be fun, but really only when you feel you were outplayed, which is rarely a feeling you get when you are mechanically denied information.
And games are for having fun.

“Fun” is subjective. Some people enjoy the mind games.
Fun is an even more subjective then the concept of overpower, thus it is moot.

Much ado about nothing. That’s all I have to say about that scenario. You dragged your guild into stop someone from playing Nicky Nicky 9 Doors.

Why not just make Last Refuge drop a smoke field instead if stealth?

I prefer Pistol/Shield. Good balance of conditions and control. Healing Turret F1 → Shield 4 is a nice heal. That said I’ve got a Pistol/Shield Turret Engie and a Rifle Kit engie. Mainly because I like Pistol/Shield but managed to attain an Azure Railgun.

Nice. Everything was feeling out of sync. It sucked cause I also had just gotten my first serious armour set. (Valkyrie set)

My Thief.

-Anonymity Hood
-Whisper’s Shoulderpads
-Predatory Vest
-Heritage Armguards
-Heritage Leggaurds
-Heritage Boots

There’s Shadowed Protector. It’s an adept trait in Shadow Arts that grants Regen to any ally you stealth, yourself included. If you’ve got anything with a rapid attack rate, you could give Signet of Malice a shot.

Kneru.8014:

Dual.8953:

Kneru.8014:

Dasorine.1964:

The problem is your proposing a nerf to something that never really needed nerfing in the first place, even if they reverted the +1s revealed nerf that wasn’t needed something like this STILL wouldn’t be needed, stealth isn’t powerful enough to warrant being weakened and penalized yet more, the fact that some people think it is comes down to new people to pvp not really understanding it and wanting an easier time against it, but the moment you start putting it on a level THEY are comfortable with you’ve removed all use of it against the experienced players.

I’m proposing an idea on the off chance they do decide the nerf stealth, in hopes they would use my idea over something like, 3 seconds revealed no matter what. Honestly, I dont want them to nerf stealth any more than the rest of you. But on the off chance they do, I’d rather suggest something I feel would be better than what they have talked about before.

Thief is my main, and I’ve dabbled with other classes, I know how easy it is to counter.

I’m still assuming you’re D/P. Because that’s the set that’d be most effected by the stealth revealed no matter what nerf. You’re nerf idea lets D/P operate at 100% capacity at the cost of messing up D/D, S/D and P/D.
The revealed no matter what nerf is better because it doesn’t ruin the three x/D builds. And D/P will survive. The set has most blinds of any thief set (one being a combo field of all things), has an on demand interupt, backstab and two gap closers, and will not lose and of them from getting revealed no matter what.

I was running D/D for a while before I logged out last night, I usually bounce between the two.

Yeah, I’ll admit of the 3 x/D’s D/D needs frequent stealth the least but the effectiveness of S/D and P/D on the other hand don’t kill as fast so they need sustain, and their stealth attacks for be effective. P/D’s only good attack skill is Sneak Attack, and S/D maintains it’s ability to stay fighting through frequent dazes and blinds.

I don’t think this build has enough survivablity. It’d work on melee mobs but in situations with a lot of AoE, ranged fire and conditions flying around would be very dangerous to it.
Not to mention this build is pretty much a free kill for dredge.

Kneru.8014:

Dasorine.1964:

The problem is your proposing a nerf to something that never really needed nerfing in the first place, even if they reverted the +1s revealed nerf that wasn’t needed something like this STILL wouldn’t be needed, stealth isn’t powerful enough to warrant being weakened and penalized yet more, the fact that some people think it is comes down to new people to pvp not really understanding it and wanting an easier time against it, but the moment you start putting it on a level THEY are comfortable with you’ve removed all use of it against the experienced players.

I’m proposing an idea on the off chance they do decide the nerf stealth, in hopes they would use my idea over something like, 3 seconds revealed no matter what. Honestly, I dont want them to nerf stealth any more than the rest of you. But on the off chance they do, I’d rather suggest something I feel would be better than what they have talked about before.

Thief is my main, and I’ve dabbled with other classes, I know how easy it is to counter.

I’m still assuming you’re D/P. Because that’s the set that’d be most effected by the stealth revealed no matter what nerf. You’re nerf idea lets D/P operate at 100% capacity at the cost of messing up D/D, S/D and P/D.
The revealed no matter what nerf is better because it doesn’t ruin the three x/D builds. And D/P will survive. The set has most blinds of any thief set (one being a combo field of all things), has an on demand interupt, backstab and two gap closers, and will not lose and of them from getting revealed no matter what.

The game isn’t all about dps. Utility, support and control can be equally if not more useful, when facing adverse conditions. Eles, Guardians and Mesmers wouldn’t be where they are if it was all about DPS. So no, a DPS meter isn’t needed, and it would have a potentially toxic effect on the playerbase. It’d only serve to overly simplify player’s understanding of combat in GW2, causing them to disregard many of its finer points.

Kneru.8014:

randomfightfan.4091:

Redscope.6215:

You do realize that the added second was a lesser nerf than what they were going to do to stealth right? They were about to make stealth cast revealed every time it went down regardless of how you come out of it. Massive thief QQ changed their mind.

Actually, I like to believe this happened:
Anet tried to nerf Stealth, but it stealthed up and Anet missed. They went off in a different direction and stealth got away with minor injuries. Stealth is so OP it can escape the nerf bat!

I very VERY much so feel that this stealth change is insanely worse than revealed on stealth exit. Just be aggressive and use the stealth attack then you’ll never feel like you were nerfed. And if you need to be invis for longer, use other stealth skills to keep the stealth uptime up longer

Well, lets be honest, stealth isnt the god mode some claim/feel it is. But A Net had to do something besides telling people to L2P.

That said, they need to revert the change (-1 sec on Revealed), and find another way other than that/3 second reveal no matter what, and figure out another way to stop the cheesing.

Even if they did 3 second revealed to matter what, if I’m playing another class the thief is gonna be a free kill. It would make Shadow Refuge even more required.

If I’m on another class all I would have to due is dodge/port to the point you would have to blow a utility to catch up before stealth runs out, and you’re revealed before you can hit Backstab. Now you’re pretty much dead.

If Mesmer – blink or decoy, wait out their stealth, maybe switch to staff, throw out a chaos storm, or use the #2 staff (forget the name). Hell, hit Illusionary Wave and there goes half your stealth time.

Guardian – Use Hammer #5 to keep them out, or #3 to immobilize them right as they go into stealth.

Etc, etc.

If we’re gonna get the revealed debuff no matter what, I hope we get some health compensation. >.>

I’m guessing you aren’t familiar with the wonderful train, Cloaked in Shadows. This cooldownless trait makes everyone around you blind when you stealth. That’s not all there is either. If you stealth, Shadow Arts has you covered.

Kneru.8014:

Dual.8953:

How is the option that still lets me keep up my blind, daze and regen defense, worse then the one that weakens that and makes it so I have to wait 2 more auto attacks before I can re-establish my defenses?

What I’m suggesting is that you can’t use CnD back to back for stealth, but you could use say, CnD > Wait for Stealth to wear off > Blinding Powder/Shadow Refuge/Last Refuge/BP+HS, etc to stealth.

With my idea you would still be able to utilize stealth back to back for Tactical Strike, Cloaked in Shadow proc, Shadow’s Rejuvenation, etc, just not by using the same ability like CnD back to back.

I’m not sure if your post didnt make sense, or you just didnt read mind thoroughly.

S/D maintained a balance between it’s initiative and cooldowns because it could access CnD every 3 seconds. It used to mesh so well allowing near constant blind and daze, affording S/D very good sustain in high intensity situations like dungeons.
The suggestions you made aren’t enough to make up for the loses.
Shadow Refuge’s too expensive and unwieldy to be effective in a rotation, not to mention it draws a lot of attention, and blinding powder’s cooldown won’t alone won’t cut it.
Last Refuge isn’t available on demand, and BP>HS is on D/P (Judging how this ideal conveniently restores D/P back to 100, with no regard for x/D, I wouldn’t be surprised if you’re a D/P user).
So as a result putting a 5 second cooldown on CnD will have a dramatic effect on S/D and even P/D, giving not 1 but 2 seconds of downtime where they can only auto attack if this is implemented, and blinding powder isn’t enough to fill in the gap.

Kneru.8014:

Drawing Guy.3701

(1) I personally hate the 4 sec cooldown myself. It fits no real attack cycle or skill, so you’re just kittening for that extra second.

Unfortunately while I considered the ‘no matter what’ 3s reveal, it actually affects nothing but CnD spam

(2)My Suggestion to fix stealth:
- Revert back to the 3 secs reveal on hit, no reveal on time out.
- Stealth does not stack.
- Shadow Refuge now gives a 15 second stealth on cast [/b]

Agreed.

(2) Then people will cry more, and ArenaNet who takes into consideration the bads, will nerf us even more. The extra second isnt necessary, 3 seconds revealed on time out isnt neccassary. However, 3 seconds on time out I believe would hurt us worse, and I’m afraid A Net will resort to this. I’d prefer a small internal cooldown to stop CnD from putting us in stealth, than 3 seconds of revealed everytime.

Jinks.2057:

I got an idea

Leave thieves alone. The ONLY thing thieves have going for them is BS build for tPvP. Thieves do have some decent d/p 1v1 specs but in real PvP these specs are worthless.

In WvW we can get more build diversity due to the rule set. This allows thieves more wiggle room to kill but if you are dying to solo thieves its nothung other than you being severely outplayed.

Agreed. However, the 4 second revealed nerf did nothing to affected chain CnD. I’d prefer and ICD (specific to each ability) compared to being revealed no matter what.

Really, I play a thief. I play the stealth/burst class in every MMO I’ve played since I played Thief in Final Fantasy XI (11, Eleven, for those of you that cant count…). I’m just trying to suggest an idea that may help with noobs complaining about CnD spam, before we end up like Operatives in SWTOR.

How did Operatives in SWTOR end up you ask? People complained about their burst from stealth, until they were nerfed into the ground and completely useless. Deception (mid tree) Assassin you had to be very good at, or you were worthless in RWZ (Ranked Warzones), as you were probably even more squishy than thieves into this game.

I’d really prefer them to revert and undo the +1 second to revealed nerf, honestly, 1 second is a long time in PvP. But if I had the choice of having an internal Stealth CD on individual skills, compared to 3 seconds revealed every time, I believe I’d rather take the former.

I used to agree with this, but I think 3 seconds revealed (whether you attack or not) will hurt us more than I think some of you realize. (which I’m afraid A Net will do) You will pretty much need Fleet of Shadow to use stealth more offensively and keep up with people who spam dodge/evade and land that Backstab/Tactical Strike/Whatever.

How is the option that still lets me keep up my blind, daze and regen defense, worse then the one that weakens that and makes it so I have to wait 2 more auto attacks before I can re-establish my defenses?

SaintSnow.6593:

Hmm I see. While this seems to be very possible to make, it can be easily exploited for monetary gain. What would happen is that people would purchase said duplicator with gems through gold. Then they would duplicate said “Anonymity hood of Divinity” to another item keeping the previous hood and now having a new hood. Thus they can then salvage the new item (since it would be soulbound of course) with a Black Lion Salvage kit acquiring any materials such as possible ectos and upgrades and sell. Profits will then go towards buying more duplicate kits and so the cycle continues. This would be a method of “item duping” and of course put a extensive damper on the market.

Yeah I wasn’t wanting it to copy stats. Just skins. I’ve updated my post to better clarify.

They would have fixed CnD chaining if they had gone with the original nerf of revealed everytime.
This will throw the attack patterns of x/D builds even more out of whack, weakening their dps and survivability even more then the last failure of a nerf.

Redscope.6215:

randomfightfan.4091:

The +1s on revealed debuff is still very much a problem and NEEDS to be reverted. It was a terrible balancing decision and failed to hit it’s targeted group of wvw and pvp thieves. The only ones feeling the massive pain of this nerf is us pve thieves. If you’re wanting to nerf wvw and pvp then leave us pve’ers out of the way of your nerf bat! We were in a good place before and now we feel clumsy and off-balance.

You do realize that the added second was a lesser nerf than what they were going to do to stealth right? They were about to make stealth cast revealed every time it went down regardless of how you come out of it. Massive thief QQ changed their mind.

Actually, I like to believe this happened:
Anet tried to nerf Stealth, but it stealthed up and Anet missed. They went off in a different direction and stealth got away with minor injuries. Stealth is so OP it can escape the nerf bat!

No this nerf is worse. It cripples our ability to fight by delaying our access to stealth bonuses by +33% and leaves the narbs who spend all their time restealthing with CnD whenever stealth ends entirely alone.
If you’re on the attack you need to stealth as often as possible to access your stealth skills and stealth trait buffs. You ideally will only stay stealthed for less then a second at a time.

digiowl.9620:

Sadly the one big source for monetizing the game that ANet have right now is fashion. Want to bring that cool looking set over to a different stat build, or duplicate it. Fork over the money for gems so you can buy transmutation crystals (you can’t use stones on level 80 items) or forget about it. As long as there are no subscription option for the game, we won’t see a DCUO style wardrobe of skins, or anything remotely like it, any time soon. Even a “fashion” tab where you can slot items purely for their looks would have been nice, but ANet need to make NCSoft money somehow.

What I’m suggesting is a gem item akin to transmutation stones/crystals that simply makes two armours use the same skin. Make one gear in your inventory have the same skin as another gear in your inventory.
eg. With Transmutation stones it’d be, 1 Anonymity Hood of Divinity could be transmuted with a Valkyrie Emblazoned Helm of the Wurm to make 1 Anonymity Hood of the Wurm. 1 helm + 1 helm = 1 helm

What the item I’m proposing would have the outcome of 1 Anonymity Hood of Divinity and 1 Anonymity Hood of Divinity and 1 Valkyrie Anonymity Hood of the Wurm. The Emblazoned Helm would have the same stats but look like an Anonymity Hood; and the Anonymity Hood would not be destroyed in the process.

SaintSnow.6593:

Transmutation stones work just fine thanks. If what your saying is to make an armor or weapon look like another while keeping the stats of another then that’s exactly what the stones are for. They don’t “merge” them.

Here’s my scenario. I just crafted my second armour set, but my char looks off to me without his hood, but the hood is on his other armour set. As things stand if I want another hood I’ll have to role another thief, which means I’ll have to delete one of char or buy another character slot. That or I’ll have to cannabalize the hood off my other set.