At equal skill, the character with better gear, will perform better. It’s Science baby, reduce your variables. Gear does improves performance.
Someone trolling the group with magic find gear when you’ve requested another style of funny hat be worn is not fun. Respect the funny hat!
A lot more players want a funny hat requirement then can be fit into any one guild. They would still have to pug to play with one another.
I don’t even join funny hat groups and can see their reasons. If peoples are mean report them. Someone not wanting to play with you is not being mean.
The problem is if the funny hat becomes the standard, it’ll be hard for those without the funny hat to find a group, and even harder for those that can’t afford the funny hat to even attempt to aquire the funny hat. It all becomes exclusive, telling outsiders and newcomers that they aren’t welcome.
Everyone can afford the funny hats if they want to, it may take them some time spent playing the game though. Asking for you to wear a suit and tie to get a seat is just a sign. I avoid those signs, but support inspect and respect.
Wanting to play with other characters that have spent the time to get a specific set of gear is not being mean. I’m fine with folks restricting their groups to anything; legendary required, a name that a fart joke, answer a monty python quiz. “Whats your favorte color” or even wear a funny hat.
It’s okay for small groups to be elitist because they’re small. But inspect features threaten to make elitism the norm. See WoW’s Gear Scores. “You must have this gear score to enter. What’s that? You need this raid to get that gear score? TOO BAD! UNINSTALL NOOB!”
Also, believe it or not, a large fraction of our player base has trouble maintaining more then 2 gold at a time. Especially those who’ve just gotten thier first 80. And you expect them to cough up 20+ gold not even including Runes, weapons and accessories, just to be allowed to dungeon?
Oh and to give an example of players being barred from high level content and unable to
get what they need to improve to reach the content’s entry level. Observe AR. Player’s with high fractal levels avoid low levels like the plague leaving lowbies stranded unable to find a fractal group just because they don’t meet the AR requirement. Especially those that aren’t used to lfg.
At equal skill, the character with better gear, will perform better. It’s Science baby, reduce your variables. Gear does improves performance.
Someone trolling the group with magic find gear when you’ve requested another style of funny hat be worn is not fun. Respect the funny hat!
A lot more players want a funny hat requirement then can be fit into any one guild. They would still have to pug to play with one another.
I don’t even join funny hat groups and can see their reasons. If peoples are mean report them. Someone not wanting to play with you is not being mean.
The problem is if the funny hat becomes the standard, it’ll be hard for those without the funny hat to find a group, and even harder for those that can’t afford the funny hat to even attempt to aquire the funny hat. It all becomes exclusive, telling outsiders and newcomers that they aren’t welcome.
No. If you want to be all elite, go make a guild dedicated to it. Giving people this tool will make elitism the norm, which breeds a toxic atmosphere unfriendly to new would be dungeoneers (and the harder it is to find a party that will let newbies in, the less people there will be doing dungeons). And don’t think that it won’t, pugs always tilt towards the meta. It’s bad enough we’ve already got class bias.
People are using guardians and elems as healers. Anet, please give up on this ‘no holy trinity’ nonsense and give us a good healer, like a monk. Let them level thru crafting if necessary.
I use my Necro as a healer, I dump regen all over the battle field. My friend uses his Ranger. I don’t understand why we need a main healer when there are so many classes that can already fill the support role. My Ranger doesn’t need a healer because he regens like mad.
Yeah, and my HGH Engie has been noted as healing just as well as any Ele. We don’t need to go waiting hours to get a healer, especially with guardians borderline filling that “we need to wait for this class” role already. We need it so people won’t look down thier nose when they see a 3 Ranger 2 Thief party. Dungeons that challenge parties, but don’t render certain classes as required and others as unusable.
Stealth is touchy. If they make a stealth counter they run the risk of invalidating thief as a class, and thieves have it almost as bad as Rangers in terms of balance across the game modes. It’d be like if they made it so rangers shared health pools with their pets in SPvP. If they try to buff them out of stealth to compensate, they run the risk of losing the class’ uniqueness. (Also stealth traps are for stealthed zergs, not duels)
As for Retal. It was supposed to be used reactively but now it’s more an attrition effect. Maybe if they made it stack intensity instead of duration and rebalanced the damage scaling, it’d be closer to its vision.
Oh and boon strips and steals are on Necros, Mesmers and Thieves, Cannon’s tier 1 upgrade, and Sigil of Nullication.
I don’t mind things coming and going, it makes the feel more special. I just wish they’d have kept the molten facility around or provided alternatives to getting the materials for event specific gear classes like Sentinel’s and Giver’s, instead of having the rely on the finite supply of the materials in the TP.
You should add in that the last combo field cast, is the active one in a stack. So if your commander wants you to stack might, don’t drop any combo field other then fire or you’ll screw up the might stacking for your entire zerg.
This makes it WAY too easy… 5 minutes a day vs months of farming. The time/effort difference is way too large.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: there is a HUGE gap between owning a precursor and owning a Legendary.
I’d agree with you, but let’s just say I know a player who’s the incarnation of Magic Find, and has gotten 3 precusors from the forge and one as a drop from Jormag. (Not to mention gets things like Fractal Weapons, and rare event drops on a regular basis)
Legendaries are a long process to make, Precursors are total RNG.
No, its really not that complicated. The problem with stealth is Anet trying to make a unique gw2-take on stealth.
How has stealth worked in WOW, WAR, EQ, Rift, DAoC, ABC, ETC, YeahI’mMakingUpAcronyms?
Perma stealth with 1 vanish. The stealth lets you scout, pick your fight, and the vanish can be used offensively to double-open or to run away like a girl. But thats it, one reset or one re-open. The classes that had this were then balanced around being able to only bail on a fight once.
In GW2, we are a class that is played almost entirely by using CnD and Backstab (or whatever fotm opener) to deal damage. We are constantly using huge openers, and always able to reset. It is a broken, stupid design. We need to make stealthing in combat a rare thing so we can be balanced around being exposed and using mostly non-opener damage abilities, just like every other class in the game.
You forget that all those other MMO’s let their stealth class borderline psuedotank with stats like evasion. They stealther can just stand there like a warrior when stealth is done because they’ll passively dodge every other attack, or they’ll have some mechanic to stun-lock or have already landed an insta-kill.
Also, seriously? What is the thief class in this game without its stealth. Basically watered down warriors with a couple extra evades and no staying power.
It’s always funny when some people defend this perma stealth with nonsense. Why does this class needs so much special attention that they even need to make traps to basically counter mostly just 1 class. Is there any other class which needs so much attention except for a stray mesmer after taking a keep so he/she can’t make a portal? Which btw is still less attention needed then a perma stealth thief keeping keeps contested.
I’m not sure what Anet is doing these days with messing around with this thief issue and the arrow carts letting them shoot through gates since that makes also a lot of sense…
You honestly thought the trap was directed at thieves. There’s this little thing called a Veil Bomb. And they’re quite a popular tactic in organized zergs (yes, those are a thing), and as the name suggest, it uses the mesmer skill “Veil” to mass stealth the zerg better then any Blind Powder, Shadow Refuge, or Mass Invis ever can.
Did anyone even see the thief? from the video he was either in perma stealth or culled out or not rendered by you client due to your settings.
If in deed he is in perma stealth that is just kitten how can you fight or target something you can’t see further more how is that balanced? sure i can see tell tales of stealth application but he is long gone from that spot rather quickly.
Your point? Was he going to backstab one shot the gate? It’s not like the thief is drawing a battle marker, he’s just being a nuisance.
autoattack with 1-chain. if it hits an enemy in stealth, it will proceed to the second skill in the chain and you will know you’ve found an enemy.
Also, isn’t there something called a stealth trap?
And then three Thieves pop out of Stealth, insta-down you, and stealth finish you while your allies are wondering “gee what happend to Thor?”
Bingo! We have a winner!
And we’re assuming Thor has no common sense and wouldn’t say were he found them?
neither would it matter they would be long gone, its’s hard to catch up with heart seeking thieves bouncing off into the distance while every other class has an asthma attack trying to keep up.
So you scare them out of your keep? Then mission accomplished. It’s not like they have a lot of places to hide in towers. And even though they call it a mesmer sweep, it isn’t exclusive to searching for mesmers.
What’s so organized about a bunch of small groups running around with their own personal goals? When you think about it, playing that way has even more potential to be chaotic then zergs do. Commanders and zergs are learning. We’re seeing a lot more organized zergs these days and even some of the pugs are learning. New tactics such as might stacking and always staying moving as a unit in a fight are being discovered. For example, see what a RAM zerg can do to anything Maguuma can throw at it.
L2P issue. Stealth is balanced. You should just hit thief not air.
Go back to the Thief forums. He clearly posted a video, and stated thakittens not a L2P issue. He covered the basics of attempting to kill any annoying Thief, and its obvious their Anet’s golden child, its ridiculous at this point.
You’re kidding right? Bottom tier in Dungeons, mediocre in SPvP, basically useless in a zerg v zerg. Thieves are exclusively lords of the small. Anything above small scale encounters in WvW like Dolyaks and they are easily outperformed.
My first thought. Why is any zerg wasting time on a single Thief?
Because that single Thief can place a Supply trap right underneath the zerg, without anyone noticing, and blow up 100supply that the zerg is carrying.
So? Mesmers can, stealth entire zergs for 3 seconds, port 20 people into the center of strongholds, and increase the speed at which doors go down. Any class with a fire field or blast finisher can supply their whole squad with 25 stacks of might. Warriors can be as fast as thieves and almost as tough as guards all while dishing out high damage. Engies and Necros can be extremely tough nuts to crack while afflicting the enemy with almost every condition imaginable. Any uplevel with enough badges can set up a trap in wait of an impending siege.
What’s a zerg doing standing around in the open anyways? If they’re sieging, they’ll have used all the necessary supplies before the trap was set, if they’re at a supply camp, they’re at a supply camp, if they’re in open field combat, things will be going to fast for the trap to be useful, and if they’re on the move, the thief would have to set the trap ahead of the zerg, because even with stealth, it’d take too long to set the trap for it to be useful.
heh. You should check one of RAM’s “zergs”. Last night we ate pretty much every challenge Mag and Kain threw at us, even when they were bigger. Bring your tankiest set and stay on the commander if you want to run with them. Oh and preferably a blast finisher.
Stop saying warriors out-DPS thieves, it’s not true. We have the strongest single target DPS in the game. It is your fault if you are not able to reach it.
Why should we tank? why should anyone tank, use your skills and your brain. We can dodge everything, so what is better: healing 20k dmg or completely evade it?
At least thieves can support very well since damage is the best support… btw we have smoke screen and black powder and signet of agility if you don’t use them its your fault
Yeah, no. I’ve tried out doing the dps output Hundred Blades grants. Sure our burst is more reliable but in PvE enemies don’t dodge out of Hundred Blades and Warriors can use it at least every 8 seconds, hitting the enemy for the same as our alpha strike backstab without the need for set up or positioning, not to mention cleaving. Oh and their Triple Chop virtually has the same damage rating as backstab and it’s part of thier auto attack chain.
What if I told you, the Stealth Trap is designed to nerf mesmer portals.
That’s weird..I thought it was a way of making money off of their broken stealth mechanics..hmm..
Considering Viel-Bombing and Portal bombing both use stealth to allow squads o launch surprise attacks, and those squads are usually stacked with 25 might, I’d think the slow to set, expensive trap that’s wide enough to catch said squad, I really think anti-stealth trap is directed at Mesmer.
Glad i could help you, please enjoy the rest of your day.
That’s not the point.
The point is that I can spam the skill and get good results, so there is no point into using it properly.
The game should encourage players to get better and get skilled to win, not spamming. Am I right?
Considering it’s currently one of our best PvE tools, I’m going to disagree at any notion of nerfing it. In fact, I’m hoping they add that ability to share the stolen boons. Thieves need thier day in the sun in dungeons.
If you want a Condi Thief, I’d recommend Rabid over Carrion. A P/D, Sb thief in my guild sees a lot of success with those stats, doing everything from Lvl 4x fractals, to arah to WvW. I think he said he took 3 runes of krait and 3 runes of afflicted.
Go to Southsun Cove as a guardian, warrior, ranger, ect… and fight a karka. Than try it with a D/D thief and it’s pretty obvious who has the most difficult time / takes the longest.
D/D tears Karka to pieces.
That’s nice and all, but this post is about team play in dungeons, not soloing in the open world. Problem is, thief doesn’t bring much to the table on the team play end. They’re pretty much a selfish class. Pretty much every other class but Ranger outmatches them in either DPS or team support or both.
Shadow’s Refuge rezes and Blinds.
DPS is only behind because are broken OP in PvE.
We also have Caltrops and blast finishers, unfortunately, none of present a distinct advantage over other classes in an intense situation or boss fights. Especially when we have classes that fart supportive boons at heals with better scaling healing power.
Why take my thief to a dungeon when I can have my HGH Engie can tank better, dish out more of every condition to everything remotely in front of him, and have the warrior in my party ask who brought the Elementalist?
Go to Southsun Cove as a guardian, warrior, ranger, ect… and fight a karka. Than try it with a D/D thief and it’s pretty obvious who has the most difficult time / takes the longest.
D/D tears Karka to pieces.
That’s nice and all, but this post is about team play in dungeons, not soloing in the open world. Problem is, thief doesn’t bring much to the table on the team play end. They’re pretty much a selfish class. Pretty much every other class but Ranger outmatches them in either DPS or team support or both.
I think the reason we have stealth is shadowsteps lack the precision needed to cope with the highly mobile combat in Guild Wars 2. Shadowstepping worked in Guild Wars because it was easy to target someone in the back row from a top down perspective, everyone pretty much stood still or moved rather slowly. Because Guild Wars 2 is much faster with more hectic battles, you can’t methodically target the opponent you want as easily, with makes shadowsteps ineffective at their original purpose, bypassing the enemy line, so they replaced shadowsteps with a much more versatile ability. Stealth lets you get to your back row target and get out like the old shadowsteps, without having the high chance of targetting the wrong thing.
I think our problem isn’t so much survivability as it is our overall lack of group utility. Why take a thief when other classes can keep themselves and their party alive at the same time?
BM rangers are OP as hell in spvp. Can I get a nerf for that, too?
Oh ya ranger is my other class and you’re insulted i wanted to have thief balanced, way to go buddy +1 to your intelligence! Go ahead i play trap ranger. Seriously though quit defending a broken mechanic.
So you want them to go from Good at WvW, okay at SPvP and Crap at dungeons, to mediocre at WvW, okay at SPvP and still utter crap if not worse at dungeons.
I’m of the opinion unload needs something. And it should be unload, not vital shot, since it’s P/P that nets the most complaints, and unload is the focal point of that weapon set by virtue of being its dual skill.
In my opinion, they need to add some gimmick to it (Evasion? Vigor or swiftness as you’re channeling? 6 shots but 100% combo finisher?) since right now it’s only about the damage, and that obviously just isn’t enough to keep the set interesting to play.
I’d go for the swiftness myself. Make Unload an more effective kiting skill.
ANet confirmed that stealth is broken in WvW by putting there anti-stealth traps. If thief is so easy to kill without anything or by anyone why this traps appeared?
Of course you have to pay for that. You still can’t buy those traps for real money (gems) but who knows what future will bring. You waste sources for that anyway just to beat some lonley thief if he ever will appear…
Um no. The size, cost and cast time makes steath traps a bit expensive and single lowly thief. This trap targets Stealth Bombs. Key player in this is Mesmers with Viel as they can stealth more then 5 people.
The biggest problem plaging WvW, small minded players who can’t see past thier own noses. Undisiplined and self centered players more worried about thier rank xp then the standing of their server.
It doesn’t matter if a thief snuffs a single player in the middle of no where or escapes a zerg. The thief is just one player, and is ill equipped to handle large scale operations like other classes. No seige was won because a thief was present.
Engineer is considered viable in all modes. Unlike Warriors, who are considered useless in PvP, Thieves and Rangers are considered dead weight in dungeons. Engies are pretty much the most variable class in the game, being able to be useful in a multitude of situations. If you go into kits, they actually have up to 4 weapon sets, with no cooldown on weaponswap. The engies are the reason they put cooldown timers on the on-swap effect sigils. (You’re comparing Ranger Sb to Engineer Pistol? Well for one, sure the Sb shoots more rapidly, but the pistol does mini AoE on hit, and if you build your engie right you’ll have access to more conditions and CCs then Sb could ever muster.)
I disagree. I find Infiltrator Strike/Shadow Return, great for initiating strong enemies and enemies with heavy CCs, and Sword builds would lose a lot of survivability without it.
Use stealth to strip boons? Wut? I call bs. Larcenous Strike isn’t a stealth skill and Bountiful Theft procs on Steal when traited for it, not stealth.
Make all in coming damage disable one of your strongest skills, cut your armour in half and remove all defensive and healing effects.
First of all, the armor and healing effects need not be removed if brought out of stealth by incoming damage.
Seriously, the reason stealth doesn’t have a statistical counter is because it isn’t a statistical defense. It’s a magic trick, and like all magic tricks, it’s significantly less amazing when one figures the trick out. If it were anything more then a trick, thieves likely wouldn’t be considered terrible at PvE.
As it stands, a stealth counter skill is literally a thief shutdown skill. No class has a shutdown skill against them, so neither should thieves.
Secondly, a stealth counter is not a thief shutdown skill. It’s just a way to reveal the thief. After all, if you read what Anet had said about the thieves to the magazines and press etc. “The Thief stealthing is meant for the thief to get away and heal”, not to inflict crap loads of damage. Oh, but I guess that statement was completely forgot about. If every other profession can fight and survive without stealthing then I guess a thief can too unless the player’s skills are lacking. Rangers use medium armor and engineers use medium armor just like the thief, if the thief can’t figure out how to survive without stealth or being revealed, then it is the fault of the thief and not a thief shutdown skill or any other excuse a thief would use to being able to keep stealthing. I do not have a thief character and will not make one as other players over using stealth and the egos that go along with it have really got me to hate the thief profession, besides, I’m not scared enuf to hide in order to attack.
1) I used that as an analog, because unlike other classes, thieves don’t get your fancy protection boons, and are in the lowest HP bracket. Making stealth drop on damage is the same as making all those things happen to any other class on damage.
2) Every other class has means to mitigate damage. Ample access to protection, or blocks, or reflects, or better scaling healing power, or aegis. Thieves have limited to no access to all those things that allow classes to facetank in the open. They’re fragile as all heck. It’s the main reason they’re not wanted in dungeon parties, the intense amount of CCs and AoEs kill them stealthed or unstealthed. On top of that, weapon sets like P/D are completely focused around their stealth skill. Not even P/D’s auto attack is worth using.
3) The fact that you don’t have a thief shows. You have absolutely no idea how thieves survive as opposed to other classes, and judging by your outlook, you take your class’ defenses completely for granted.
I usually have it by default as a sucker for speed, but I’ll switch it out for something like Smokewall in dungeons. Been experimenting with other SoSless builds too.
Make all incoming damage remove stealth. Problem solved.
Make all in coming damage disable one of your strongest skills, cut your armour in half and remove all defensive and healing effects.
Seriously, the reason stealth doesn’t have a statistical counter is because it isn’t a statistical defense. It’s a magic trick, and like all magic tricks, it’s significantly less amazing when one figures the trick out. If it were anything more then a trick, thieves likely wouldn’t be considered terrible at PvE.
As it stands, a stealth counter skill is literally a thief shutdown skill. No class has a shutdown skill against them, so neither should thieves.
PVE
thief:
1.traps suck big time
2.venoms have to small range for sharing
3.burst is meh
4.dps is far behind a warrior
5.mobility is NOT so very good without 15 in acrobatics
6.let’s say that the lowest hp/med armor combo compensates with stealth to stay alive, but the new “dont drop agro on stealth mechanic make things difficult”
7.almost NO boons, no team support except stealth res
8.blindness ineffective at bosses, also 1/2 duration of vulnerability&weakness
9.shared initiative system on all weapons
warrior:
1.banners 600 range: 2 super boons up for everyone in party !
2.invulnerability
3.top dps
4.highest hp/heavy armor
5.good condition remover (remove 1 condition on shout+ Shake It Off!=2 on 1 skill, Mending-remove 2 conditions then heal etc.)-contrary to “low condition removal” stated by a-net
6.good bursts
7.boons like 3 might stacks and fury for everyone in party
8.mobility via rush and other skills
9.switching weapon sets you get fresh skills
This post is so insanely slanted it’s not even funny. I know you are being serious, but I can’t take you seriously.
Slanted or not, there’s definitely a reason thieves get turned down and warriors get demanded in PvE situations.
That’s because they’re the best PvE class there is?
Not just that. Thieves are turned down in favour of just about every other class but ranger. We are seen as having neither the dsp or survivability, and our support is considered niche at best.
. Seriously though quit defending a broken mechanic.