Guild Wars 2

Basaltface.2786:

Duke Nukem.6783:

i flat out hate this idea, i already get mad at anet when they release a peice of armor that is usable by any class, it destroys the distinctness of each professions looks

…as you could tell em apart if they dont attack you (or anything) without putting your cursor on them. Only time you actually can is if they happen to use the only weapon(s) the other two (or one) classes in their weight class cant. If you put a double pistol engineer besides a double pistol thief you dont know what is what without looking for example. Or staff mesmer and staff ele, dagger ele and dagger necro. You can carry a skull staff as ele and a scythe as mesmer if you want or a burning armor as necro or whatever…like you can wear the magitech as ranger or the guardian starter pieces as warrior. The distinct look does not come with the class.. it comes with people making it look that way cause they either want it or not. All you really can tell apart now (without looking at the weapons and maybe a present pet) is the weight class Thats atleast my 2 cents to that.

the engineer has a backpack and nobody makes a theif look like an engineer, they have specific features they add to one that they would not add to another

well duh we all kno the lamest legendaries have cheap pre, but honestly do we really want cheap pre cursors? legendaries r already too easy to get and with anet promising “best in slot for life” this could really ruin the game if they are easier to get, personally i think they should become more expensive

Seera.5916:

Duke Nukem.6783:

i think this thread has helped me to come up with a solution, one that does not change the event AT ALL but alters how people get into it

what if we alter the LFG open world content tab to have clickable links that will teleport you to the event (and extract the wp cost) when it is time for a specific peice of open world content, this would be useful for the temples in orr aswell which are currently hard to know about

That doesn’t work for teq or wurm. You need massive amounts of coordination for those events. You can’t get that if everyone shows up right as teq or wurm right as they. You dorealize they are on a timer, right?

never said the buttons would pop up right as the boss did, it could be an hour early

i flat out hate this idea, i already get mad at anet when they release a peice of armor that is usable by any class, it destroys the distinctness of each professions looks

Pandaman.4758:

I’m still hoping for a districts system like back in GW1, that way people who want full maps to try TT (but not join TTS for it) can manually fill up maps rather than relog and hope the megaserver is kind to them.

thats kinda what im suggesting with my post previous to yours except it only becomes relevent when big content is up

Pennry.9215:

OP suggests to let there be a “leader” that is immune to being kicked. Or at least if they do get kicked, they still kick the rest of the party out with them. The reasoning being that they “own” the party/instance. Correct?

First, none of us players own anything in the game. The instance isn’t your house. You, the player, are actually an invader or helper of the true owners.

Second, just because you think typing a LFG message is “more work” doesn’t make you more special. Want a real life example? Who does more work the grunt or the boss? Who does the firing? Sounds fair, right?

Third, a much better solution would be that when a player (any player) is kicked, they get prompted that they were kicked and and if they would like to stay in the instance. If they chose to stay, they are there at the point they were kicked (or some checkpoint system close to it) and can freely repopulate another group to finish said instance. Yes, this is entirely a huge undertaking to make possible, but IMO is the best solution to this kicking problem as a whole.

1, the debate of who LEGALLY owns the content is not the same as who owns the content in a practical sense so this is irrelivent

2. this is just an ignorant example the boss does do more work, he takes more risks to start up the company or makes the hard decisions, its not easy being at the top

3. this is a fine idea and i like it alot

i think this thread has helped me to come up with a solution, one that does not change the event AT ALL but alters how people get into it

what if we alter the LFG open world content tab to have clickable links that will teleport you to the event (and extract the wp cost) when it is time for a specific peice of open world content, this would be useful for the temples in orr aswell which are currently hard to know about

knives.6132:

Labjax.2465:

knives.6132:

In short, you want people to carry you

If we’re going to go there, then I will say that you can easily be carried, even with making the commitment to get on a third party voice chat and listen to someone call out instructions in your ear.

Don’t act like it takes any great amount of personal skill to listen to a voice in your ear and follow the herd.

As far as I can tell, wurm requires a handful of skilled players, strong coordination to kill the heads at the right time, and a bunch of zerglings with good gear and the ability to follow instructions. Go ahead and correct me if I’m wrong, but I seriously doubt I am.

All I’m saying is that if you are “joining” in an organized raid and you’re not the one organizing the raid, at least put an effort to follow the rules they set.

People who act like “I wanna do this but I don’t like going to TS but TS is required wa wa wa” annoys me. Show some respect to the organizers by following their instructions. Not like they are getting paid.

It’s like posting for lfg – “zerk only” and some cleric dude joins, got kicked and QQ’s that the party is elitist. Duh.

big guilds making rules like that is a dangerous trend to get into, today its voice chat maybe tomorrow its a malicious website, its an exploitable thing to have so much power in an outside organization

SkylightMoon.2098:

A lot, lot, lot, lot, lot of guilds could do this fight if it didn’t require +100 people

The problem isn’t guilds, its the number of people it requires. The majority of guilds can’t field the amount triple trouble needs 2-3 times a day, 7 days a week. Only the select few mega-guilds can.

How do you fix it? Allow an option to open the fight in your own overflow or temporarily seal off that area of the map where the fight is going on, sorta like queens gauntlet bosses were sealed off while players fought them.

Why? Its related to the problem of it requiring too many people. If the fight is designed around 20-40 people, thats great, but scaling. More people join, it either nerfs the fight into a zergy madness, or in the perfect world where everything(mechanics including), scales right, you are stuck with the problem of 20-40 out of 150 people actually being coordinated. If that happens, the fight fails.

i see what you mean sorta a pseudo instance, not a bad idea

knives.6132:

Duke Nukem.6783:

knives.6132:

Duke Nukem.6783:

Ayrilana.1396:

Then all of those that can’t do it should create a guild and do the event. It’s not on farm status because it requires more coordination and timing unlike Tequatl which is still a map wide zerg fest.

make a guild? just for one event? now you must see how excessive that is and thus recognize my problem

Or, you know, go to every map and do map chat to call on people and organize a raid by yourself… Your raid, your rules. You don’t like Teamspeak (I don’t know why it is such a big deal)? Don’t use teamspeak on your raid.

Or are you one of the persons that QQ but doesn’t want to take action by themselves? (ie: people who are complaining that zerk groups doesn’t want to take non-zerk in when they can look for their own group)

you would never get the people by calling in map chat for triple trouble and i thin you must know that , so are you ignorant on the subject or jsut deliberatley saying things that cant possibly be helpful?

TTS does that when they can’t reach the number of people needed to organize a run. Or rather they turn in to lfg tool.

Problem with you is that you want to join the run but doesn’t want to play by the organizer’s rules. Then when presented with another solution, you QQ.

Let me get this straight – So basically, you want to join TTS organized raids, without either joining the guild or using TS or both. In short, you want people to carry you (since you’re not fully committed to the organized run).
A bit selfish/entitled on your part eh?

first off i know why they do it, im good at triple trouble and i understand it perfectly, i always volunteer for roles usualy ending up as one of the water ele in the escort team. im not saying its malicious or intentional on their part im saying its exclusionary and opaque.

so lets not try and analyze the “problems” with eachotehr, i am more complex then you are probably capable of understanding and its off topic anyways, dont be so hostile or make so many assumptions

Neurochazm.5370:

The problem isn’t with TTS, it’s with people too lazy to organise their own runs, with Guild mates, allied Guilds & friends.

maybe but few guilds have the resources for , and if they try they would destroy their small guild charm, those big guilds are no fun to be in…..so blaming human nature (lazynes) is not a helpful direction to go in. how can we make this content still accessible (every1 can try it) and also challenging (your success is based on skill not wheather or not you got into the right map)

moiraine.2753:

sevenDEADLY.5281:

No matter what happens in this thread, at the end of the day, you are not the patent
owner of guild wars 2, you don’t own the pixels on the screen and you don’t get to decide what happens with changes in the game. The change is going through no matter how much you complain and you have literally no say in it. No amount of your arguing with almost everyone in this thread and being rude to everyone here (despite stating how EVERYONE else but you is rude) is going to change these facts. However, when you do decide to create and manufacture your own MMO, feel free to add these changes to it.

I support him on 100%.OP is just arguing with everyone…..I can say only one thing.Dungeon owner had to go and Anet agreed on that.So deal with it.

OP is arguing with half the people with one perspective, and dont say deal with it cuz anet has already said they are re consdiering certain parts of this, so i am getting what i want

Xander.9024:

Yes it is for people who want more chalenging things.So you either do what the RL is telling you or else….
Raids were always like this in every other MMO out there.They have alwasy been the exclusives for 1% of the population.Get on TS.Know the fight.Come prepared with food potions,gear.If not you will be kicked.You don’t like it?So what?That doesn’t matter at all.80+ other people are doing what the RL wants from them.You won’t be the exception.

My question is: Since when does one person get to decide who has access to content in a game and who doesn’t? “Do what we say or gtfo?” really? Great community.

well they cant kick you out but maybe we need to think about “taxiing” as a possible problem in the mega server. i think that might be the solution that will force these guilds to divide their forces for the good of the community

knives.6132:

Duke Nukem.6783:

Ayrilana.1396:

Then all of those that can’t do it should create a guild and do the event. It’s not on farm status because it requires more coordination and timing unlike Tequatl which is still a map wide zerg fest.

make a guild? just for one event? now you must see how excessive that is and thus recognize my problem

Or, you know, go to every map and do map chat to call on people and organize a raid by yourself… Your raid, your rules. You don’t like Teamspeak (I don’t know why it is such a big deal)? Don’t use teamspeak on your raid.

Or are you one of the persons that QQ but doesn’t want to take action by themselves? (ie: people who are complaining that zerk groups doesn’t want to take non-zerk in when they can look for their own group)

you would never get the people by calling in map chat for triple trouble and i thin you must know that , so are you ignorant on the subject or jsut deliberatley saying things that cant possibly be helpful?

moiraine.2753:

Kurrilino.2706:

I totally understand the OP and we all know he is talking about the TTS guild.

These guys are like poison for the multiplayer aspect of the game..
They spread their guys out to find THE MAP, collect their guys and leech out
maps that are almost full.

That leaves people back with 15-20 players not having any chance to beat Tequatl or the Worms. Usually these are the people who waited for 40 minutes in a map to play a successful event.
Behavior like that belongs forbidden or somehow denied by A-Net.
You know things are wrong when people come into a map and ask “is this run by TTS?” and leave if it is.
I really feel bad for the people who waited such a long time just to be betrayed by a gang of clowns with a Team Speak server.

Please A-Net do something about this situation,the comunity is already poisoned.
We don’t need another battlefield

Sorry but the game is already too casual.Why there can’t something harder for us too?I know atleast 4 Europe comunities that are doing the worm just fine.If you are not part of them then you have to try harder to get into their guilds.
When TxS is doing a run we want it smooth with experienced players.People being on TS listening and doing what is told to them.People coming with food and drinks.Good gear.They must know the fight.Yes the fight needs preparation.If you can’t do it then find someone who can.Not everything in this game is for the casual player.

I like the worm as it is.Why?Because i put an effort in it.You must do the same.Not every World boss has to be like the rest.Killed by numbers without 0 strategy only pressing 111111.

dont make the mistake of thinking i dont want hard content, i do, i am not casual. i just dont want to use TS or download any third party stuff for this game, i had vent for domain of anguish in gw1 and it was totally unneeded , and that was just after nightfall came out, things got real in there, people cried and gave up 6 hours in.

but that content only took 8 ppl and you could get a party of 8 for it easy and fast, you might fail, but you had a chance….there is ZERO chance of organizing a party for htis wurm

WingLegacy.7159:

Question for whiners: has any of you guys did a dungeon ex. fractals that every thing went smooth and after 3rd frac suddenly one guy said brb then after 30mins he hasn’t come back yet? What’s worst party cant kick him cause his the instance owner? Try it! And maybe you’ll support this change…. it will greatly ruduce trolls in dungeon/leavers too.

my solution is better: it addresses your problem with an afk party leader (changes party leader if idle or offline for 5 mins) and still protects the autonomy of the party

Ayrilana.1396:

Then all of those that can’t do it should create a guild and do the event. It’s not on farm status because it requires more coordination and timing unlike Tequatl which is still a map wide zerg fest.

make a guild? just for one event? now you must see how excessive that is and thus recognize my problem

GOSU.9574:

These events are as close as the development team seems willing to move towards a raid environment. I am not sure what you would expect in such an environment.

How many “end game” raids of other MMOs do you go solo?

Just to clarify my position on them, I don’t care for them, they are exclusive and whenever content feels exclusive I avoid it. That includes raids from other MMOs.

yea i duno what the solution would be either and i too avoid it for this same reason i was just hoping to hear someone from anet give their perspective

Yargesh.4965:

The way to break up the power block is to do as you yourself wrote, organize it yourself.

thats a temporary solution but as i just said the obstacles to that are enormous with brand recognition, and even so it still doesnt change the fact that in its present state the content is exclusionary with too much power into the big guilds, its similar to when someone says “this election is just a popularity contest” too much focus on who you can get with and not on your actual skill

Yargesh.4965:

You are confusing me. You say that there are tons of people who can’t get in because a single guild is doing the event? Why not use those people to do the event if there are so many that are feeling excluded by a single guild? Each map caps at 150, so if there are more than 150 people in that one guild then those extras could do the event?

a few reasons, lots of people simply have given up because of how opaque the content is, i asked at the end of teq today who was still going to wurm and like 5 ppl were shocked to even hear that “ppl still do that” this is not good for the community to have half the game think the content is simply dead, and it pretty much is. also its more about organization than numbers and while i think if i did give myself and a small group of commanders 60 or 90 minutes to organize with practice that could work but wudnt it be better to break up the power block? many ppl wont even try to do the event with you if your not in tts, and no i dont wana join.

Sligh.2789:

TTS is not the only guild that does it on a regular basis. They are not the end all be all of guilds.

thats not really the point, even if its a few guilds its a very limited event to get inot, not hard to beat, just hard to get into

Yargesh.4965:

Duke Nukem.6783:

Yargesh.4965:

It does need the coordination that teamspeak brings. It does need people who know it. It does not need one guild ( I know of about 3 that do it regularly though). Get two others and a teamspeak channel and you too can have an overwhelming number of people to do it with.

it certainly needs some coordination but at present its either “use our products and our guild recogniton and do as we say or dont do the content” thats a problem

and i think your oversimplifying the problem if your telling me to get 2 other ppl and a teamspeak channel, im certain not every1 on the map needs to be in teamspeak for even the most complicated games ever made

Then it is even simpler than I wrote.

you arnt making alot of sense, this thread is about difficulty of access to the event (really it doesnt take much skill on an individual level) and the exclusionary powers of those that run it. its very difficult for newcomers to penetrate this content, to even make a first attempt at the wurm as every map is either totally empty or the 1 golden map, its not like you can walk away and say “good try this time guys we got a bit further and next time we will get the silver chest instead of the bronze” its all or nothing

kokiman.2364:

Duke Nukem.6783:

this is a question for anet about triple trouble

now i know that time and time again u have said that it is SUPPOSED to be very very hard, but is it? certainly very few people succeed at it, but is that because its hard? or because its exclusive?

as it stands now you either have a 100% chance to succeed if you get onto THE MAP or a 0% chance to succeed if you dont, why? because basically only 1 guild organizes it, and this guild forces all its members into one map, any1 who wants to get in that map has to join their teamspeak server or has no chance to get in

this is not fair not fun and not challenging, its also potentially dangerous. imagine the future if we are forced by private guilds to open 3rd party content to participate in the game, they might send us to their websites and steal our information, im not saying this one guild does do this….but consider it a possible future.

so is the triple trouble event working as anet intended?

Yes it is working as intended.

get on your anet mod account and tell me that

Yargesh.4965:

It does need the coordination that teamspeak brings. It does need people who know it. It does not need one guild ( I know of about 3 that do it regularly though). Get two others and a teamspeak channel and you too can have an overwhelming number of people to do it with.

it certainly needs some coordination but at present its either “use our products and our guild recogniton and do as we say or dont do the content” thats a problem

and i think your oversimplifying the problem if your telling me to get 2 other ppl and a teamspeak channel, im certain not every1 on the map needs to be in teamspeak for even the most complicated games ever made

this is a question for anet about triple trouble

now i know that time and time again u have said that it is SUPPOSED to be very very hard, but is it? certainly very few people succeed at it, but is that because its hard? or because its exclusive?

as it stands now you either have a 100% chance to succeed if you get onto THE MAP or a 0% chance to succeed if you dont, why? because basically only 1 guild organizes it, and this guild forces all its members into one map, any1 who wants to get in that map has to join their teamspeak server or has no chance to get in

this is not fair not fun and not challenging, its also potentially dangerous. imagine the future if we are forced by private guilds to open 3rd party content to participate in the game, they might send us to their websites and steal our information, im not saying this one guild does do this….but consider it a possible future.

so is the triple trouble event working as anet intended?

SOLUTION
this thread has finally started to reach a constructive solution, what if we add a button to the open world content section of LFG system to suggest that an event will be up “soon” (for big event it gives more time cuz those need organization) and if you click this button it will extract a WP fee and port you to the instance that is currently filling up, ensuring that while these bosses are not changed AT ALL that people wanting organized attempts can find eachotehr easier.

Seera.5916:

Duke Nukem.6783:

Seera.5916:

What are your rules, Duke Nukem?

PUGs aren’t really the place for a huge set of rules and that may be what’s getting you kicked if you have too many or they are too complex.

Since that’s really what your true issue is. Getting kicked when it’s your group. And it’s obviously happened enough times and most likely not at the beginning of the run for you to be worried about this change.

If your rules are not venturing into the realm of breaking the rules, then yes, it is a jerk move that you got kicked. But too many trolls would abuse the party leader is immune function. Too many rule breakers would.

But if they kicked you early in the run, that’s all the better for you if you’re rules aren’t breaking ANet’s rules. Because only jerks kick someone else when it’s not their group. And you don’t really want to help a jerk, do you?

what my rules are is irrelivent im not even sure i have any

and your absolutly wrong about “people would abuse the immunity” we have it RIGHT NOW and it works fine, it is literally how things have been running for 2 years, so the only change is that the leader leaving no longer causes instance to close

Currently:

The true trolls don’t care if you own the instance and it will kick everyone out. They know a portion will go running to the forums to complain and ask for the change that is about to come.

The exploiter will be lead because he knows people don’t want to lose their progress and can use that as a form of blackmail. “I get to exploit or you get to lose all your progress.”

dont make assumptions about why someone gets kicked or if they even do, iv never been kicked from my own party ever
And if you aren’t getting kicked at the beginning of the run before it even starts, then it’s you. You come off as someone who makes it perfectly clear that you own the instance. So obviously you do things most PUG players don’t like to such a degree that people are willing to LOSE THEIR PROGRESS to get rid of you.

Which means if it isn’t your build, it’s your rules. Which is why I asked. You already stated you’re a bowbear, which is probably why you get kicked at the beginning of the runs by jerks. And you don’t want to run with them anyway. They did you a favor. But once the run starts, it’s you. Something about your personality or your rules is causing you to get kicked. And you obviously haven’t realized it. You’re biased towards your own personality (we’re all biased towards our own) so I can’t ask you about your personality. I can ask you about your rules. Maybe help you figure out what’s causing you to get kicked so often. Because you’re obviously so scared of getting kicked after this change is implemented. And there has to be a reason behind it. If you never to rarely get kicked, you’d likely not be this stuck on party leader immunity.

The change is coming, there’s not enough uproar over it to cause them to reverse their decision. Most seem in favor of it as long as the change to kicking is raised from 2 to 3. And that’s what ANet will likely try first. It’s a lot simpler than party leader immunity. And a lot less prone to being exploited by rule breakers (jerks and game exploiters).

If jerks and exploiters wouldn’t use their immunity from being kicked against the others in their party, I’d be all for it. But unfortunately, that’s not the case. I can’t let a decision that would let a game rule breaker force other players to either choose to lose upwards of an hour’s progress or profit off of them exploiting the dungeon. Or allow a jerk to be incredibly rude to someone in the middle of the run without being able to be kicked (if you’re being incredibly rude, you have earned the kick and a likely ban as I’m talking ban worthy levels of rudeness).

sevenDEADLY.5281:

No matter what happens in this thread, at the end of the day, you are not the patent
owner of guild wars 2, you don’t own the pixels on the screen and you don’t get to decide what happens with changes in the game. The change is going through no matter how much you complain and you have literally no say in it. No amount of your arguing with almost everyone in this thread and being rude to everyone here (despite stating how EVERYONE else but you is rude) is going to change these facts. However, when you do decide to create and manufacture your own MMO, feel free to add these changes to it.

lol, look whose talking

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Do you guys think that there’s a middle ground between ultra hard and easy?

For example, I think we could clean up some of the issues with the Shatterer and just make it a more engaging experience. So rather than spending the entire fight hiding under his right paw he could, say, turn his head and attack that area? :] It doesn’t have to be hard, just a little more involved.

We tried to put in a few changes here and there when we added the new world boss timers. Reactions varied.

i think we need to make the distinction that ultra hard is not the same as requiring LOTS of people, we need challenging bosses but they dont all have to be health dumps

before we can have hardcore mode anet needs to expend the combat system its very boring and bladn at the moment and i have no reason to want harder content because there is no greater way to increase mastery….hexes and enchantments first!

i did like season 1 alot more, this instanced story content is not only boring and somewhat mildly insulting (is EVERY member of the new hero team affirmative action in some way???) but why would you ever focus on content that nobody would repeat? marionette, lions arch assault and the tower of nightmares were all alot more fun and varied, dry top is nice but its not as “over the top” as they were before

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

We can’t even sell dungeons with friends filling the spots anymore to protect us from being kicked. Look at this example by dutchiez

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Dungeon-selling-request-deposit/first#post4341878

Why is this okay Anet? You wanted to fix the instance ending when someone leaves party, but you created tons of issues when kicking other players.

This patch won’t end well. You should hotfix this as soon as possible or you’ll hear the outrage of people getting their instances stolen. You can’t possible monitor all the kicks/reports going on. Why not work on preventing such thing from happening in the first place?

yea they didnt pick a very good solution and they need to fix it

Stooperdale.3560:

It’s probably ok to kick someone if they would kick you if the situation was reversed.

do unto others before they do unto you is not really how i want dungeons to run…..

Seera.5916:

What are your rules, Duke Nukem?

PUGs aren’t really the place for a huge set of rules and that may be what’s getting you kicked if you have too many or they are too complex.

Since that’s really what your true issue is. Getting kicked when it’s your group. And it’s obviously happened enough times and most likely not at the beginning of the run for you to be worried about this change.

If your rules are not venturing into the realm of breaking the rules, then yes, it is a jerk move that you got kicked. But too many trolls would abuse the party leader is immune function. Too many rule breakers would.

But if they kicked you early in the run, that’s all the better for you if you’re rules aren’t breaking ANet’s rules. Because only jerks kick someone else when it’s not their group. And you don’t really want to help a jerk, do you?

what my rules are is irrelivent im not even sure i have any

and your absolutly wrong about “people would abuse the immunity” we have it RIGHT NOW and it works fine, it is literally how things have been running for 2 years, so the only change is that the leader leaving no longer causes instance to close

IceVyper.6810:

Seera.5916:

And Dry Top isn’t a dungeon and the original party leader wasn’t being kicked. Kicking in Dry Top does nothing to the kicked person’s progress. Just affects their experience earned and chances at loot.

Dungeon instance creator should not be immune from kicks. Here’s why:

Lazy people who want to be carried can make a group and make it look like it’s for speed runners only. Does not state that he wants to be carried or make it known that he’s a lazy bum looking to be carried (or she). He makes a decent effort for the first boss (get some time equity into the group), then slacks off. Are the speedrunners supposed to just grin and bear it for the rest of the dungeon?

Nope. They should have every right to kick the lazy person who lied to them about the intention of the group.

Nor should groups have to suffer through a drunk person on a casual run who started off sober and started the dungeon but decided drinking enough beer to get drunk was a wise decision.

And after this change there will likely be nothing to note who started the dungeon anymore (and I doubt there’s anything that denotes party leader in the code), so it may not be possible to have one person out of a party be unkickable.

They are working on ways to limit the effect of trolls and griefers, but it will likely take some time. They have to figure out a code to store votes to increase from 2 to 3. They’re working on a way to make it easier to report those who are abusing the kick system.

Your system would likely require them to add more code as well for an issue that’s probably not as common overall as you think based on your own experiences.

If you’ve been kicked as a leader 100 times out of 150 times for reasons not related to being a jerk or breaking rules, it seems like a lot. But if every kick of a dungeon creator for non jerk or rule breaking issues is only 500 out of 100,000, that’s not a lot. That’s 0.5% of dungeon creators being kicked for pointless reasons.

I say non jerk or rule breaking because:

1. No one should be forced to listen to a guy go off on someone in a rude manner just because he’s the dungeon leader and it’s too far into the dungeon to leave without making it a waste of time.

2. No one should be at the mercy of a leader who decides he wants to exploit the game. The exploiter should always be the one that has to lose progress. Not the ones who wanted to do the dungeon legit.

I’m not saying you fall into category 1 or 2, but you can’t honestly tell me that jerks and exploiters as dungeon leaders should be immune from being kicked?

I guess I am viewing this only from my point of view, where me or a friend are always party leaders and thus make sure that the party follows our rules. Now, of course, none of us will abuse that power, slack intentionally etc and that is why I haven’t thought much about the other side of the issue.

And now that I have given it some thought, it is a small inconvenience that I am willing to live with. Mainly because I intend to not letting strangers be party leaders.

And if you are a speed runner, why do you expose yourself for such risks? Why do you accept someone else to open the instance for you? And why do you rely on the LFG to find like minded people for such runs, when the most viable way is to join a speed running guild.

I find it very funny that someone can get severly drunk in the course of a dungeon path. I would like to see that

Anyway, most dungeon paths don’t really need 5 people do be finished, so if you happen to get stuck with a douchy leader and choose to stay, you still get your rewards in the end, block and report the person and move on. On the other hand, if you started the instance, did all that was expected of you, but get kicked before the end, out of griefing, then you just wasted your time as you are left without rewards.

Basically, what we have here, is having to choose between the lesser of two evils: being stuck with a jerk or loosing all progress alltogether.

if you made the group its your rules, it doesnt matter if those rules r unethical or amoral bcuz people can leave, if they dont wana carry you, if they feel better than you, then they joined the wrong party, they are overqualified for the party, but u cant be too bad a player for your own party! the party starter is the standard for which the party is judged and nobody else.

Izaya.2906:

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Problems:
1. Two buddies/guildies/jerks kick others “because”.
2. Dungeon owner rage quits, all goes to pot.
3. Party remainds more of an airport – ppl fly in and out before you know it.

Solution
1.Rather then paying out the dungeon reward at end, split it among dungeon chests that appear after you’ve beaten certain dungeon bosses.

Each such chest is subject to “daily clear” detrimental rewards system – full reward on first loot, much smaller for next, untill next day.

2. Majority vote on kicking.
3. Ownerless dungeons, which you’re already implementing. But only when first two fixes are present!

Result
You get rewarded as you progress, if you get booted at 60% of dungeon completion, you already have at least 40% of rewards in your pocket if not full 60% (getting to chest before they kick you). Kicking lfg members before end boss to sneak guildies in won’t ring anyone’s bell, with measely 20% reward from this scam.

Ragequit leaders won’t crush the dungeon, “airport” parties will not see their final members get full reward, while all the previous got near zilch.

You can thank me later :>

Not gonna happen, they “fixed” arah p3 so people couldn’t farm the first bosses by modifying the reward.

If all paths have the similar reward system people would just farm them and skip the time consuming parts (already happening with SE p1 right now, I’m really surprised Anet hasn’t “fixed” SE p1 yet lol).

yea this creates more problems then it solves

IndigoSundown.5419:

Duke Nukem.6783:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Lishtenbird.2814:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Duke Nukem.6783:

u dont come into my house and tell me how to do things, you dont come into my party and tell me how to do things! if i lead the party you play by my rules

I have zero sympathy for this attitude. PuGging is a convenience, not a right. If you want to ensure that your group experience is to your tastes, start cultivating a friend’s list of like-minded players and group only with them.

And I have zero sympathy to PUGs which don’t read party descriptions, join, want us to carry them and then kick us and get the reward simply because they can. I have a right to make a party, and if I make it, I have a right to gather people I want in it and to stay in it. Likewise, they have a right to make their party and gather their players instead of kicking me once I’ve done my work.

I have no sympathy for them either. I’d like to see the kick system removed, or at least revamped to make it much harder for such people to grief others.

All I can see happening if nothing is changed in the decision is soloers who’ve seen challenge in using their skill leaving the game,

You are selling gamers short. Gamers are endlessly inventive and will figure out ways to work around things.

guild people ignoring them when a full guild party cannot be formed, guildless people leaving dungeons,

Or, guildless people will join guilds. If there are lots of them, there will be a larger pool of people in guilds to form guild parties.

and dungeon PUGs becoming a swarm of barking dogs which rarely finishes dungeons and rages on forums regularly.

Dungeon PuGgers already rage regularly on forums about being kicked, or about the instance owner leaving. So, nothing will change.

no they dont, this is nowhere near as common as it will be, and more importantly …..why do you want to kick the leader? your in HIS party, dont like him find a new party

Where did I say I wanted to kick anyone? I want to remove kicking, or make it harder to kick anyone. I just cannot support a solution that only protects 20% of the user base — as I’ve now said multiple times.

you wana remove kicking completly? thats a less viable solution than just protecting the owner as some ppl DO need to be kicked, but having hte owner be immune has been perfect up until now and should remain that way

i would fail 4/5 high level fractals if we could never replace someone , it should be only the owner who is immune, stop measuring by the number of people protected autonomy is not about adding people up and trying to treat them all equally, the party leader is not equal he started it he put in more effort he is above every1 else

Scoundrel.2139:

I think the thing is, allowing only kicks to end dungeons still allows for instance owners to have control. At the moment, you enter an instance first to ensure you don’t get stuffed around. Right now, a party leader still has immunity from kicks because it kills the dungeon and they can still be trolls.

With the system I said earlier, where only a kick ends the dungeon, you can still enter first and be the instance owner. It still allows power to fall in the hands of the instance owner in that regard.

Kick = dungeon end. This is still how it is presently.
Disc/Leave = owner change.

perfect, and i cant understand ppl complaining about this bcuz its how it is now and its NOT a problem, the only reason ppl wanted a change was for leader leaving

yoyi.3469:

Party leader can only be kicked if is offline.
kick someone needs 3 votes.
Party leader have a icon that identify him.

this is a fine option

Azrael.4960:

Ashen.2907:

Azrael.4960:

If that player paid to open the instance then sure but otherwise no.

Hmm, PvE private queue ?

Player buys a gem store token that prevents them from being kicked from instances that they start ?

Don’t give anet ideas…

yea seriously nobody wins in that….not even anet as id still quit

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

The intent of the Renown Heart system was originally to help players find event content. They also provide a decent method for us to give the player some context and awareness of what’s going on in the area. There are probably a few issues in that design which we could discuss. We could also let it suffice to say that hearts do not make the best repeatable content the game has to offer.

On the topic of keeping players engaged with open world content, I think this goal may be for more approachable from a different angle. Consider Dry Top, which has no hearts. Players on that map are participating in events all the time, largely on the premise that each event contributes to both map-level and personal-level goals. This gives me the notion that with a little help at the system level, events can and should be the bulk of repeatable open world content in Tyria.

I’d be very interested in hearing your thoughts on that.

i have been toying with an idea for a year now about making hearts have large scale impacts on the map based on the last player who did them, lets take a small example im making up here on the spot, lets take the first heart in queensdale, the cow pen, lets say a player goes to compelte it they have 3 basic paths they can take, feed cows, kill bandits, kill wurms, each action you take based on one of these 3 paths would change how the world around that spot is affected, ignoring the cows will decrease the cow population and remove grain sacks that players use for speed, they would also increase the price of cow related items worldwide, but if a player does feed the cows and does help protect cows from the bandit and giant wurm event then cow population will increase and have reverse effects, killing wurms would also decrease wurm population and same with bandits, making such events less common.

this could make a dynamic world that is moved by individuals

TehPwnerer.7215:

Nobody should ever be booted from the dungeon just because someone else leaves. End of story. Whatever else they implement to prevent griefing I’m all for. Increase vote kick to 3 votes? Definitely. Give party leader some form of control over how things work? Perfect.

But nobody should ever be removed from an instance because the first person who left, or the party leader, left or got kick or got disconnected.

End of story. That’s how ArenaNet has decided dungeons should now work.

we aggree on that, and it is not at all related to this thread because the topic we are discussing is the autonomy of party leaders NOT suggesting that the party leader leaving should still close the dungeon

DeathPanel.8362:

eekzie.5640:

Asmodeus.5782:

No further ideas beyond increasing votes to 3 and other stuff you mentioned, but I just wanted to approve this topic.

I’m personally super in favor of adding a ‘’party leader’’ function, where he is the one who can decide on these things a lot more. This gives people a lot more protection to being kicked for no reason.

No. Having a party leader is a terrible idea because it just makes it so the leader can have total freedom to kick anyone “for no reason”.

at no point in this thread did we suggest the party leader would have additional kicking powers, why r u making things up?

Izaya.2906:

Ryan Diederich.8179:

Asmodeus.5782:

As I mentioned in my thread on the topic, it would be great to have the number of needed kick votes increased to 3, to minimize griefing resulting from this change. Personally I always started my own dungeon parties to avoid kick-happy couples. Now there’s nothing to kep me safe. 2 votes have always been a bad idea, anyway. Not even a majority.

I actually agree with you. I would have liked to increase the vote count a majority with this change, but unfortunately not all the pieces of code around party votes are set up in a way to make this a quick and easy change.

We were aware of the possible issues with the instance ownership change, but felt that holding back an improvement to the base experience on account of trolls was unfair to users that are playing nice.

Stealing instances using the LFG tool, or booting people for no reason (or to give your buddy the rewards for no work) at the end of a run are bannable offenses and should be reported.

How about we settle for the middle ground?

Player A is the dungeon instance starter:

If Player A leaves the party the instance he started will still be alive.

If Player A disconnects and is automatically booted from the game by the server the instance he started will be alive.

If Player A gets kicked from the party the instance he started will be terminated or you can alternatively make Player A immune to kicks. Do whatever is easier to implement.

perfect, this would make every1 happy

moiraine.2753:

Duke Nukem.6783:

TehPwnerer.7215:

Duke Nukem.6783:

TehPwnerer.7215:

NO NO NO… Nobody should ever be kicked from the dungeon just because the party leader (or anybody else) gets kicked.

I am not sure why a few people on the forums keep asking for this as a remaining “feature”…. Nobody should ever be kicked out of the dungeon if someone is kicked – end of story.

That gives dungeon leaders WAY too much power. If the leader is vote kicked, leader should transfer as normal.

All of the good suggestions you mentioned are things already proposed by the developers. Why don’t we just wait and see how the new system works before everyone else tries to bring their brilliant ideas on the table?

ArenaNet has come to their senses and realized nobody should ever be kicked from a dungeon if the “dungeon owner” (party leader, whatever you guys wanna call it) gets kicked or leaves. That’s not fun or fair to anybody.

The party leader should not be protected from a kick. And nobody should be removed from the instance if the party leader or anybody else is kicked or leaves.

u dont come into my house and tell me how to do things, you dont come into my party and tell me how to do things! if i lead the party you play by my rules

What are you talking about? On more than one occasion I’ve spent time creating a party only to have someone ELSE walk into the dungeon – thereby him being the dungeon owner, NOT ME. You don’t even know what you’re complaining about from forum post to forum post.

And no, lol, just because you started a party doesn’t mean you get supreme control over everything. That’s not how life works. I’m just glad you aren’t in charge of any decision making at ArenaNet.

if u are forming a party and not walking in first thats your weird kinda problem but im not making a distinction between the two because i do form the party after i walk in,

and yes if i make something it is mine to decide its fate…..that is how life works….its in our constitution, its in our bill of rights, its the foundation of our nation’s beliefes.

Then learn to adapt.From here on out you won’t have special privileges any more.I’m really glad that there won’t be anymore dungeon owners.There is a big difference between party leader and instance owner.The 2nd one is a bad design.Tell me of MMO that has such system in it.I have never played western MMO that has it.

i said i dont make a distinction between the two because i always am BOTh if you do then fine, for the sake of this discussion we are talking about party leaders.

and i love when people act like anet didnt make a statement yesterday that they are rethinking this on these very forums, dont be so sure of how things are going to turn out our imput does change things and already has

moiraine.2753:

@ZudetGambeous

I agree with you on everything you said.What i want is OP to answer to those questions:

• Why one persone should be protected and 4 other no?Only because he open he can do what ever he wants.
• Why the group has to be on a mercy on 1 persone?He can leave at any time and booting us out.
• Why if someone goes afk and is being just boosted for free to not be able to be kicked only becasue he opened the instance?
• Why if the opener dc or rage quits and goes offline we shouldn’t be able to kick?
• Why being to much time offline the whole group has to be kicked out?

your answers in order:
1. the group leader formed the party for specific reasons, if his reason was simply wanting to get going then he deserves to get what he wants, a quick and easy going party, but if his reasons were to avoid persecution for something the “meta” frowns upon then he also deserves that, its an issue of autonomy, my party my rules, dont like it? get out.
2. did u even read my solution? pay attention to the solution under OP it clearly says you WILL NOT be booted if the party leader leaves
3. if i open the party maybe i want a slow relaxed run, this might mean some afking is to be expected to handle other things, i went in a party with a woman the other day who was putting her baby to sleep and we didnt mind waiting, it was her party, her rules. while it certainly is reproachable to go afk for a long time i would certainly be willing to amend my suggestion in the OP to say that if the party leader goes idle for too long they also lose party ownership.

4. again, did you even read the OP ? shame on you
5. seriously cant you read

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Duke Nukem.6783:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

If you don’t want to be kicked then don’t join speed runs with your sup-par build and your lack of experience.

Make your own group and specify you want a slow inexperienced casual run.

i love the jerks who instantly assume im joining parties that im unqualified for when i clearly said these concerns are about being the opener

1. Party creator and instance owner are two separate things. They have no relation to each other at all.

2. I find it very interesting that you have such a problem with getting kicked. Maybe the problem is that you go around calling people jerks? Try being nicer and you may not get kicked as often. I have pugged 7 dungeons a day (AC 123,SE 13, CF 1,2) almost every day for the last year. I think I have over 1000 dungeon runs. I have never once been kicked.

1. i make no distinction between the two as i always open before i form a party, but for you, ok, this discussion is about the person making the group the “group pleader”

2. there are 5 threads on the front page of these forums saying the same thing so instead of trying to make me into a scapegoat you talk about the issue at hand.

TehPwnerer.7215:

Duke Nukem.6783:

TehPwnerer.7215:

NO NO NO… Nobody should ever be kicked from the dungeon just because the party leader (or anybody else) gets kicked.

I am not sure why a few people on the forums keep asking for this as a remaining “feature”…. Nobody should ever be kicked out of the dungeon if someone is kicked – end of story.

That gives dungeon leaders WAY too much power. If the leader is vote kicked, leader should transfer as normal.

All of the good suggestions you mentioned are things already proposed by the developers. Why don’t we just wait and see how the new system works before everyone else tries to bring their brilliant ideas on the table?

ArenaNet has come to their senses and realized nobody should ever be kicked from a dungeon if the “dungeon owner” (party leader, whatever you guys wanna call it) gets kicked or leaves. That’s not fun or fair to anybody.

The party leader should not be protected from a kick. And nobody should be removed from the instance if the party leader or anybody else is kicked or leaves.

u dont come into my house and tell me how to do things, you dont come into my party and tell me how to do things! if i lead the party you play by my rules

What are you talking about? On more than one occasion I’ve spent time creating a party only to have someone ELSE walk into the dungeon – thereby him being the dungeon owner, NOT ME. You don’t even know what you’re complaining about from forum post to forum post.

And no, lol, just because you started a party doesn’t mean you get supreme control over everything. That’s not how life works. I’m just glad you aren’t in charge of any decision making at ArenaNet.

if u are forming a party and not walking in first thats your weird kinda problem but im not making a distinction between the two because i do form the party after i walk in,

and yes if i make something it is mine to decide its fate…..that is how life works….its in our constitution, its in our bill of rights, its the foundation of our nation’s beliefes.

Morsus.5106:

The only changes I ask for are these:
1. Increase kick count to three
2. Keep party chat
3. A message when someone joins a party
4. A message when you are kicked, including who initiated the kick and who voted on it.

1 is a nice start but 2 3 and 4 are false hope, you think anet will be able to police all the reports that go in? and will that really help you anyway? revenge is nice but it doesnt get you back the time you invested before you were kicked

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

ZeftheWicked.3076:

@LanfearShadowflame.3189

Doesn’t the wallet do that for me already? Tokens, gold and shards are account -bound are they not? Doesn’t matter which one you use, they land in the same pocket in the end.

Depends on when you award them. If you get some here and there as you go along, sure. If you bundle all into some final end chest, possibly not. You suggestion makes it sound like all the rewards are bundled at the end, and that that end reward is dependent upon how long you were in the dungeon. Thus why I asked, would it recognize the same account, or would it simple recognize a different character, thus screwing over.

Also character swapping is cheesy (if only for making others wait for it) and i wouldn’t mind if it got cut down. If i wanted to level my low level, i simply did a run on it whole way through. Many of my 35 – 80 levels were made that way for my thief and ranger.

You may think it’s cheesy, and that’s fine. You don’t play with us. We typically don’t pug (though I do know a few pugs that do this as well). If done well, there actually isn’t any “waiting” unless the person lags. Generally speaking, we’re out and back in before the person not swapping finishes off the boss. Not by much, but we are.

I have 28 characters myself, not all are 80, as I just bought 3 more slots last night. However, I like to swap up how I level relatively often. Sometimes I map, sometimes I event chain, sometimes I swap at the end of dungeons, sometimes I run around EotM. There is nothing wrong with any of those options and Anet provided them intentionally so that people had options to level. What’s the point of all this? It simply proves that I play very differently than you while still remaining within the bounds of acceptability as set for by Anet. The fact that you want to specifically limit how I play, when it has no bearing on you, simply makes you a kitten.

Duke Nukem.6783:

so YOU dont like character swapping so HE shouldnt do it? you are exactly what we are trying to protect ourselves from…..

Pssst, I’m a “she”

Tachenon.5270:

Give us Heroes/Henchies we can bring along. Problem solved. :-)

+1

I’ve been asking / begging / pleading / raging for heroes since mere months after launch.

heroes will not be able to handle some of the more complex dungeon tracks (good luck on ooze escort) also heroes were a very bad move for gw1 as a whole as it really took any social aspect out of the game for alot of people, they were convenient, but many players didnt see the decay it brought on slowly changing the game

ZeftheWicked.3076:

And you offer solution that instead of 2 people kicking whole party gives that power to one! Well doesn’t that just beat all!

actually i didnt suggest the leader have any more power to kick, is that the impression you had?