Guild Wars 2

ZeftheWicked.3076:

@LanfearShadowflame.3189

Doesn’t the wallet do that for me already? Tokens, gold and shards are account -bound are they not? Doesn’t matter which one you use, they land in the same pocket in the end.

Also character swapping is cheesy (if only for making others wait for it) and i wouldn’t mind if it got cut down. If i wanted to level my low level, i simply did a run on it whole way through. Many of my 35 – 80 levels were made that way for my thief and ranger.

so YOU dont like character swapping so HE shouldnt do it? you are exactly what we are trying to protect ourselves from…..

TehPwnerer.7215:

Can this be closed already? I mean seriously. The instance owner thing was the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen in an MMO and ArenaNet is going back on that design (about time if you ask me) for good reasons.

4 people should not get removed from an instance just because the person who walked in decided to leave, get kicked, or get disconnected. Not to mention that the party leader wasn’t always the “instance owner” so all you people arguing over how the party leader should have complete control don’t even understand how the system works in the first place.

The devs said that in time we will get an increase from 2-3 votes required to kick. Be patient until then. Until then, at least now we don’t have to worry about someone getting disconnected or leaving and wiping out the entire dungeon party.

u dont get to decide what is dumb and the fact that 5 posts on the front page are about htis same topic with dozens of people saying this is important tells you this is not dumb, if you feel it is dumb then you are the kind of narrow minded person we are trying to protect ourselves from.

and dont try to make anet sound like a closed book, they already said they are reconsidering this

also if the only thing your worried about is getting booted if opener leaves then RELAX i have already offered a suggestion to fix that in my thread, make the party leader unkickable but make them lose their party leader status if they log off, that way they still cant be kicked but the instance thing can stay this new way

IndigoSundown.5419:

Duke Nukem.6783:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Simple solution. Get rid of PuGging. Want to group? You can only do so with people from your guild or friend’s list. Return socializing to MMO’s. I sincerely hope ANet does not listen to the requests of people who think they own grouping through a convenience tool.

you create a bigger problem than you solve, people will always find a way to pug and you taking away the convenience will not stop them, the ONLY solution is to prevent the leader from being kicked, but the leader changes if the leader logs out or leaves dungeon

No, the solution is to revise or remove the kicking system. The system should never have been implemented as is anyway.

….ya i just sugested we revise the kicking system……thats what this whole thing has been about, we revise it so that the leader cant be kicked BUT if the leader leaves the party they or leaves the instance they are no longer the leader

IndigoSundown.5419:

Lishtenbird.2814:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Duke Nukem.6783:

u dont come into my house and tell me how to do things, you dont come into my party and tell me how to do things! if i lead the party you play by my rules

I have zero sympathy for this attitude. PuGging is a convenience, not a right. If you want to ensure that your group experience is to your tastes, start cultivating a friend’s list of like-minded players and group only with them.

And I have zero sympathy to PUGs which don’t read party descriptions, join, want us to carry them and then kick us and get the reward simply because they can. I have a right to make a party, and if I make it, I have a right to gather people I want in it and to stay in it. Likewise, they have a right to make their party and gather their players instead of kicking me once I’ve done my work.

I have no sympathy for them either. I’d like to see the kick system removed, or at least revamped to make it much harder for such people to grief others.

All I can see happening if nothing is changed in the decision is soloers who’ve seen challenge in using their skill leaving the game,

You are selling gamers short. Gamers are endlessly inventive and will figure out ways to work around things.

guild people ignoring them when a full guild party cannot be formed, guildless people leaving dungeons,

Or, guildless people will join guilds. If there are lots of them, there will be a larger pool of people in guilds to form guild parties.

and dungeon PUGs becoming a swarm of barking dogs which rarely finishes dungeons and rages on forums regularly.

Dungeon PuGgers already rage regularly on forums about being kicked, or about the instance owner leaving. So, nothing will change.

no they dont, this is nowhere near as common as it will be, and more importantly …..why do you want to kick the leader? your in HIS party, dont like him find a new party

TehPwnerer.7215:

Woljnir.7810:

My only concern are the elitist groups who insta kick engineers, rangers, or necros as soon as they join because those classes aren’t “optimal” for most dungeons.

There are groups all the time that don’t care. In fact whenever I do dungeons I specifically say any class is welcome and that it’s not a speed run.

The only thing that needs to be added now is an increase from 2 votes to 3 votes to kick and the system will be perfect.

many of those elitists dont even read party descriptions and will still harass people for not playing their way, and this increase from 2 to 3 votes does not address the principal concern i have, i am the party maker, i made it with a specific st of rules in mind and any1 who wants to violate these rules can now kick me, and do not say that i have to play with friends, i will not accept restrictions of any kind that other people do not have, if i have to only play with friends in my party we might aswell delete the entire lfg system

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Duke Nukem.6783:

then your missing the point of the entire problem which is to prevent undeserved kicks not just say “well you got enough anyways so shut up and stop complaining” your solution has NOTHING to do with the problem

It has everything to do with the problem. Currently the system encourages scammers by promising a full payout for joining the end boss only, at cost of nothing for those who worked their butt off through full dungeon to get there only to get kicked by two jerks.

Kicking under majority vote is part of my solution. And dividing loot payout is another, that ensures people get rewarded for the progress they made so far, rather then see the finger after nearly whole, sometimes ardous run.

so how do this solution address party leader autonomy? or unjustified kicks? or party hijacking? or swamp stealing? cuz u kno they will still hijack for even reduced rewards, its not a good diea, it doesnt fix these problems.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Duke Nukem.6783:

u dont come into my house and tell me how to do things, you dont come into my party and tell me how to do things! if i lead the party you play by my rules

I have zero sympathy for this attitude. PuGging is a convenience, not a right. If you want to ensure that your group experience is to your tastes, start cultivating a friend’s list of like-minded players and group only with them.

And, the game is ANet’s house, it’s not yours.

everything you said is not related to this topic at all

puging is not synonimous with forming parties, any party i form is based on my way to play, dont like it find a new party. that doesnt make all parites pugs

and dont tell me that the only way to make a party the way i want is to find a set of friends or guild mates to play with, thats inconvenient and limits how often i can get a party, which is again, not letting me play the way i want, and why should people who play the way i want be limited, r we going to force the other types of players to only use their friend’s list? gee lets just get rid of the LFG system alltogether!

and the party i make is mine, anet did not propose this update to take that away from me they only did this to stop instances from closing in the event of the opener leaving, this is just an unintended side effect

IndigoSundown.5419:

Simple solution. Get rid of PuGging. Want to group? You can only do so with people from your guild or friend’s list. Return socializing to MMO’s. I sincerely hope ANet does not listen to the requests of people who think they own grouping through a convenience tool.

you create a bigger problem than you solve, people will always find a way to pug and you taking away the convenience will not stop them, the ONLY solution is to prevent the leader from being kicked, but the leader changes if the leader logs out or leaves dungeon

ulcimql.2516:

in my opinion there is no justice when giving more power to some party members. having a majority vote in all cases makes the most sense. it is not only in an mmo that you have to manage your stay in a group.
if one has a lot of problems with being kicked from parties then maybe one should look into refining oneself first.

you get to come into my house and have a majority vote on weather or not you like my carpet? and kick me out of my own house if you dont?

Mosharn.8357:

Yes they need a party leader system. This way it will work with the new change and ppl wont QQBBQ on the forums for being trolled or joining a party of trolls then getting kicked after they are done using you.

right, we ask for such a simple immunity and a reasonable degree of control so we can have order and avoid not just intentional trolling (which is not common) but the worst kind of narrow minded parties that will kick u just for not playing stacky stack properly

Stars.2179:

Duke Nukem.6783:

u dont come into my house and tell me how to do things, you dont come into my party and tell me how to do things! if i lead the party you play by my rules

You assumed that the party is yours to begin with. It is not, according to ArenaNet from this coming change. The party was, is and will never be yours even if you opened the instance. You do not have any more special privileges than anyone else.

This coming change also reflects ArenaNet’s stand on selling dungeon path. Do it at your own risk.

you make alot of assumptions about anet’s goals they already said just yesterday on these very forums that they are searching for new solutions and are rethinking their decisions, so no you wont be getting to steal my party

ZeftheWicked.3076:

My solution is pure justice – you did half of dungeon, then half of rewards (or roughly that number) are yours.

If you did whole, all rewards are yours.
Heck we could throw in small bonus reward at end (equal to one chest), but only if a member did fulll dungeon from start till finish. None of that for mid-joiners or kicked ones.
That is ofc with kicking system getting fixed in mind.

then your missing the point of the entire problem which is to prevent undeserved kicks not just say “well you got enough anyways so shut up and stop complaining” your solution has NOTHING to do with the problem

TehPwnerer.7215:

NO NO NO… Nobody should ever be kicked from the dungeon just because the party leader (or anybody else) gets kicked.

I am not sure why a few people on the forums keep asking for this as a remaining “feature”…. Nobody should ever be kicked out of the dungeon if someone is kicked – end of story.

That gives dungeon leaders WAY too much power. If the leader is vote kicked, leader should transfer as normal.

All of the good suggestions you mentioned are things already proposed by the developers. Why don’t we just wait and see how the new system works before everyone else tries to bring their brilliant ideas on the table?

ArenaNet has come to their senses and realized nobody should ever be kicked from a dungeon if the “dungeon owner” (party leader, whatever you guys wanna call it) gets kicked or leaves. That’s not fun or fair to anybody.

The party leader should not be protected from a kick. And nobody should be removed from the instance if the party leader or anybody else is kicked or leaves.

u dont come into my house and tell me how to do things, you dont come into my party and tell me how to do things! if i lead the party you play by my rules

Mosharn.8357:

Duke Nukem.6783:

Mosharn.8357:

rude players should not have all the power. This change is justified. Deal with it.

rude? like you right now? overly concise players who make snap one line posts are a great comparison for snap judgement players who kick without justified reason. thank you for being an example of why we cant have this update

The dungeon owner system is a huge flaw. Yes it gives power to kick the owner and yes people can abuse it. People will always abuse everything they can. Right now the host feels like the president of the universe and doesn’t have to worry about a thing. Everyone should be on even terms. If you pug, you expose your self to people like that.

The main issue I have with dungeon owner is that if the host bugs or wants to switch characters they can’t.

Also there is always a reason for a kick. If someone kicks for no reason then you brought your self into a party of kittens in the first place. It is very easy to avoid such parties. I don’t ever kick anyone or support a kick unless the person is very rude and or an elitist.

Also thank you for attacking my post with something that doesn’t contribute. I put simple words that have a straight forward meaning in the post you replied to. The dungeon owner system only added to the griefing trolls can do. It makes joining parties with friends a pain if you into a party with a troll for the owner.

Next time instead of attacking someone who replys to your thread you could discuss more. People like you are the reason a lot of players regret posting or even looking at the forums.

no everyone should not be on even terms, people need order, and look at you making a one line post and saying to someone else “your not contributing”

and your “main issue” is fixed by my solution

Turtle Dragon.9241:

1. Wait for someone to roll swamp.
2. Enter his party with a friend via LFG tool.
3. Kick him from party.
4. You and your friend start at swamp.

The person getting kicked wont even know what hit him, wont even know who to report because party members are not registered anywhere(unlike in GW1 when you had a “recent party members” list) and party chat get wiped the moment you leave/are kicked from party(not that we would have told him anything before kicking him anyway). He wont even know to block you or anything. Completely defenseless.

Now you want to apply this same method to Dungeon sellers among other things. They wont even know what hit them(or rather, they will know what hit them, but never who hit them). Can also be used on anything that says “at final boss” in LFG tool, such as parties with people who rage quit AC P2 for fast rewards.

Arenanet says this will be a bannable offense. But not really, because to be banned, you would need to get reported. To get reported, people need to be able to know your character name/account name, let alone type it.
Bring a character named Áæç Éüèöé Çéïì and let’s see them type that and report you.

and will anet even be able to police it if you do manage to report them? it woudl be too common and we would have to also report peopel for kicking simply because “ranger used longbow”

rojak.1894:

Duke Nukem.6783:

stale.9785:

Morsus.5106:

Kicking someone should require 50% or more people. In a group of 5, 3 votes would be required. In a group of 4, 2 votes would be required. In a group of 3, 2 votes would be required, in a party of 2, you can just leave the party.

This. The new incoming system, PLUS this change to the vote:kick system.

Even better is the suggestion further up this thread that it would take unanimous consent – that is, everyone except the person being kicked – to kick someone.

For those who don’t deal with english to well:

Require 4 out of 5 votes to kick to remove someone. (Or 3 out of 4, 2 out of 3).

what if 4 ppl come into MY party and try to tell me how i am going to play? unacceptable

Also for example if your group is stuck at say lupicus in Arah, new people join, you wipe early, group manages to beat the boss but they kick you out after because you died and according to them you did not pull your weight.

thats another tragic and infurating situation and we need protection from it

cesmode.4257:

Duke Nukem.6783:

cesmode.4257:

Duke Nukem.6783:

the dungeon community is the most hostile, most unfriendly, most eager to kick community in this game, and their is almost no fixing that. one of the only ways to be safe in a long run is to be the opener. this update will only give dungeon elitists more power to kick the person WHO STARTED THE PARTY. this update is just going to make them more hostile and aggressive and now theirs no protection from that.

its also a problem for dungeon sellers who can now be kicked by the buyer although i dont really like runners anyways.

i dont wana play the meta, i dont always wana roll swamp i dont wana keep a set of full zerker armor to do the catacombs and i dont wana rush past every enemy in the game just to quickly do the boss chest. and now their is no way for me to safely join a dungeon. you have taken away one of the only things i still do in this game anet.

SOLUTION
make it so the dungeon does persist if the owner goes offline and they can be kicked after being offline for a set amount of time (lets say 5-10 mins?) but the dungeon will NOT persist if they are kicked

Who came first chicken or the egg?

With your logic, everyone wants to be a “dungeon starter”. If thats all there was, there would be no groups.

Just up the vote restriction to 3 or 4 votes. Not going to be flawless 100% of the time, but its better than nothing.

And I HATED getting DC’d from the dungeon at the end of the run before I can click on any chest, because the instance owner left too quickly.

the egg came first as it was around 100s of millions of years before dinosaurs began to shrink in orer to deal with the decreased supply of food, eventually becoming chickens and other birds you see today, the egg itself went through less changes only gaining a harder more brittle shell rather than the leathery shell of a dinosaur egg, now onto the rest of your post!

by your logic we should currently ONLY see party leaders cuz the system i am suggesting is already in place (expect for the D/c change) but we dont see that so your argument is empirically invalid.

3 votes is still too few , 4 is ok but id prefer a proper immunity

Don’t use dinosaur egg logic with me. How dare you bring logic into these forums.

And how about this one…your suggestion is empirically invalid because Im sure the Omnipotents at Arenanet have the statistics and know-how to know what would work and what wouldn’t work within the confines of their game.

Otherwise, they would have taken my brilliant suggestions on improving the game long, long ago.

tldr; They wont listen, whether or not we say increase the vote kick count to 4, or whether we all agree with your proposal. They know better, and aside from a 50 page CDI, our suggestions are hardly ever taken into account.

actually a mod already comented on this exact idea and said they would like to rethink the issue, i just hope they do the righ thing and make the party leader safe

PseudoNewb.5468:

The proper solution, is the nobody should EVER be removed from an instance because of other player actions. This will be the only way to prevent malicious use of the partying system, and give everybody a fair chance to play how they want.

That means, if a party is split by a kick, the instance should be replicated for the split parts.

Of course this will allow the replication of an instance that is in a desirable state, which can easily be exploited. But this kind of exploitation should be considered an acceptable and mitigatable risk.

Mitigation involves, restructuring rewards so that there is no time where an instance is in a highly preferred state. Most of the times a dungeon is in it’s most prefered state, just before the final boss as the majority of the reward is earned by fighting and killing that boss. One good way of restructuring the rewards is to distribute more rewards across the entirety of the dungeon instead loading it entirely at the end.

In the same vein, dungeon currencies should be rewarded based on the player’s actual participation throughout the dungeon (sorry to dungeon purchasers, but coming in at the final boss, and fighting just him should only be worth a fraction of the tokens. Dungeon selling is not supported by the game.). Perhaps 1/2 token for each gold medal event, and 1/3 token for silvered and bronzed events throughout the dungeon (or other fraction depending on the number of events). To reward completion, of course, these rewards would be withheld until the final boss falls (but if you are forced into a copy, your rewards follow you).

Other tools for mitigation is to apply a sort of DR and have an instance reward entropy if an instance is copied too many times. This will also add consequences for being unable to work with a party that you joined. Rewards can be docked to players who are affected by the party kicking system or choose to use it.

The solution is to simply have a game where the manager’s of the economy do not have to worry about it being wrecked because an instance’s state can be copied. Rebalancing them in this way will also be helpful in revitalizing the way in which people can play dungeons. If the designers of the game can make it so that in game economy issues are separate from the mechanics of starting, stopping, continuing, and finishing a dungeon, then, the game will have a platitude more flexibility when handling how to deal with instances along side the party systems and other potential technical and network issues.

i wish but that exploit is way too huge, its less of an impact on the economy and the game to just allow the party leader immunity

Lodius.5392:

The kick system will never be healed in any MMO.

I got kicked from a COE p1 run the other night… there was 1 member in our group that was afk… he then even left the instance a while. So I voted to kick him. Someone else agreed…. but then the other 2 people in the party kicked me out because I kicked their friend out.

if u were the party leader u would have been safe, this kind of irrational behavior is why we need CONTROL to keep people in line, parties need a leader!

because you would devalue them to the point where they were too easy to get and then nobody would have anything to work towards

stale.9785:

Morsus.5106:

Kicking someone should require 50% or more people. In a group of 5, 3 votes would be required. In a group of 4, 2 votes would be required. In a group of 3, 2 votes would be required, in a party of 2, you can just leave the party.

This. The new incoming system, PLUS this change to the vote:kick system.

Even better is the suggestion further up this thread that it would take unanimous consent – that is, everyone except the person being kicked – to kick someone.

For those who don’t deal with english to well:

Require 4 out of 5 votes to kick to remove someone. (Or 3 out of 4, 2 out of 3).

what if 4 ppl come into MY party and try to tell me how i am going to play? unacceptable

moiraine.2753:

Duke Nukem.6783:

vespers.1759:

This is terrible and i’ll tell you why. Why should a party leader be immune? With this system you’re promoting an environment that allows the larty leader to do whatever the kitten they want and get away with it. I guess now i can just afk and laugh while the others do the dungeon for me because they can’t kick me anymore right?

There is zero logical reason that a party “leader” should be immune to punishment. It is completely and utterly illogical.

What’s really going on here is people want to keep what little insurance they had in the old system, whereby if the leader was kicked everyone else also was, making the leader feel better about being kicked.

I am saddened by the complete lack of any reasoning skills here. All they need to do is add a 3/5 man vote to kick system and be done with it. that requires 3 open slots to clear a party and that almost NEVER happens in groups that are not trying to sell instances.

it is exactly the same as the system we have now EXCEPT if the party leader leaves the instance does not close, which is the ONLY complaint people had.

if i make the instance, if i start the party, i set the rules, it is my party .

No the party is not yours only the instance.Why opening the instance makes you imune to kicks?None other MMO has such nonsense.
I agree that there must be Party leader.What had to go is the instance owner.

thats fine, aslong as the person who created the party cannot be kicked

ZeftheWicked.3076:

I’m not saying to limit the rewards. I’m saying to split them across the chests in dungeon with end result being exactly same, but paid out in chunks as you progress through the dungeon. I’ll edit first post to make it clearer.

then their is either no incentive to finish the dungeon or no nothing has changed at all because you still need to get all the way to the end to get the full reward

your solution is the worst one iv seen out of them all because it basically says “lets fix it by not dungeoning anymore” making it so its OK to get kicked early is not a solution its surrendering to the problem

cesmode.4257:

Duke Nukem.6783:

the dungeon community is the most hostile, most unfriendly, most eager to kick community in this game, and their is almost no fixing that. one of the only ways to be safe in a long run is to be the opener. this update will only give dungeon elitists more power to kick the person WHO STARTED THE PARTY. this update is just going to make them more hostile and aggressive and now theirs no protection from that.

its also a problem for dungeon sellers who can now be kicked by the buyer although i dont really like runners anyways.

i dont wana play the meta, i dont always wana roll swamp i dont wana keep a set of full zerker armor to do the catacombs and i dont wana rush past every enemy in the game just to quickly do the boss chest. and now their is no way for me to safely join a dungeon. you have taken away one of the only things i still do in this game anet.

SOLUTION
make it so the dungeon does persist if the owner goes offline and they can be kicked after being offline for a set amount of time (lets say 5-10 mins?) but the dungeon will NOT persist if they are kicked

Who came first chicken or the egg?

With your logic, everyone wants to be a “dungeon starter”. If thats all there was, there would be no groups.

Just up the vote restriction to 3 or 4 votes. Not going to be flawless 100% of the time, but its better than nothing.

And I HATED getting DC’d from the dungeon at the end of the run before I can click on any chest, because the instance owner left too quickly.

the egg came first as it was around 100s of millions of years before dinosaurs began to shrink in orer to deal with the decreased supply of food, eventually becoming chickens and other birds you see today, the egg itself went through less changes only gaining a harder more brittle shell rather than the leathery shell of a dinosaur egg, now onto the rest of your post!

by your logic we should currently ONLY see party leaders cuz the system i am suggesting is already in place (expect for the D/c change) but we dont see that so your argument is empirically invalid.

3 votes is still too few , 4 is ok but id prefer a proper immunity

raethe.1903:

Wouldn’t it be better from a non-skipping, non-kicking standpoint to put a behind-the-scenes field on a character when you enter the dungeon and kill bosses – it would take a little bit of work, but shouldn’t be too terrible to code:

Field: “BossesKilled”
– on dungeon entrance and/or exit, field is set to 0
– Belka dies, code fires [BossesKilled +1] (total = 1)
– Abom dies, code fires [BossesKilled +1] (total =2)
– Lupi dies, code fires [BossesKilled +1] (total =3)
– etc.

Then, on the final boss of the dungeon, have a quick code check for BossesKilled > 0 for any party member. This way, if the soloer is kicked, the end boss cannot be triggered or killed, or have the instance start over at the beginning. I could foresee some crazy testing needing for this, but it could solve the problem of kicking a soloer, at least. There would be no incentive to steal an instance because it wouldn’t be possible any more.

thats a big waist of time when all we really need for a perfect solution is non kickable party leaders

vespers.1759:

This is terrible and i’ll tell you why. Why should a party leader be immune? With this system you’re promoting an environment that allows the larty leader to do whatever the kitten they want and get away with it. I guess now i can just afk and laugh while the others do the dungeon for me because they can’t kick me anymore right?

There is zero logical reason that a party “leader” should be immune to punishment. It is completely and utterly illogical.

What’s really going on here is people want to keep what little insurance they had in the old system, whereby if the leader was kicked everyone else also was, making the leader feel better about being kicked.

I am saddened by the complete lack of any reasoning skills here. All they need to do is add a 3/5 man vote to kick system and be done with it. that requires 3 open slots to clear a party and that almost NEVER happens in groups that are not trying to sell instances.

it is exactly the same as the system we have now EXCEPT if the party leader leaves the instance does not close, which is the ONLY complaint people had.

if i make the instance, if i start the party, i set the rules, it is my party .

Oxidia.8103:

Every now and then i enter a path sellers lfg and say they should be ashamed of themselves. Then exit the group.

Every time i see a staff ele i force myself not to vote kick it from a dungeon, instead i grind my teeth and watch it how he/she spams fireballs with no attument switch ever and then die max range from all of us. Then i don’t res him/her the whole run because f you start using dodge and stop checking your facebook.

I do the same from above when a necro is in a group. Or a ranger. Because max range-spamming 1 rocks.

I change my armor’s apperance way to often. Sometimes weekly.

After i flushed 200gold in mystic forge and only got a few pearl exotics i quit playing for 2 months.

I like like world completion it relaxes me.

I strongly resent people who ping precursor drops on world boss event. I’m jelous besause in 2 years of playing the most expensive item that dropped to me is a hammer worth 20 gold.

I like running fractals even tho i know i’m going to get a uninfused ring on lvl 50.

Once i vote kicked afk-er on the phone after being afk for 10 min because i wanted to finish asuran fractal because Mentalist was on in 30 min on tv and i wanted to watch it.

lots of great reasons why we need a party leader to be immune from kicks

IceVyper.6810:

I don’t really agree that the number of votes needed should be increased beyond 2.

Actually a much better solution would be this:

If a player has not been inside the instance from the start, he/she is not allowed to vote kick. That way, no random last minute replacement can steal your instance.

this does not adequatly protect dungeon owners from being kicked from the party THEY MADE, the maker sets the rules no exceptions

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Being a ranger that likes to employ different strategies vs bosses then “stack&whack” i’m the last guy to raise my hand against unkickable leaders.

But i know that there’s me, and there are ragequitters that send everyone packing cause they couldn’t take a wipe or two and were first to enter the dungeon.

Still majority of the problem is that reward is at end and how badly you get screwed when you’re kicked/leader disbands before that point is reached.

we can fix that by making it so the leader who leaves does not end the instance but the leader can only leave of his own will or a disconnect, not by a kick

thats far more compliated than just giving the owner immunity from kicks which is what we have now and works fine, if the owner leaves or d/cs then the instance doesnt have to close but he should be unkickable

Mosharn.8357:

rude players should not have all the power. This change is justified. Deal with it.

rude? like you right now? overly concise players who make snap one line posts are a great comparison for snap judgement players who kick without justified reason. thank you for being an example of why we cant have this update

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

my solution:
always dungeon up with trusted guild members.

not a solution, friends are a much smaller pool than the public and are not always available, the party leader sets the rules for the trip and other people should follow those rules

this is exactly what we need the party leader sets the rules for the trip so its their party and nobody can take that from them

Mark Katzbach.9084:

Most of the items you listed off that aren’t in this update are because they are content. This is not a content update, this is a feature pack. Content updates usually, but not exclusively, take the forum of living world updates or festivals.

thats the problem , not everything has to be in living story (i kno u said not everything but it really is everything except holiday events)

eekzie.5640:

Healix.5819:

Policing kicks doesn’t work. It would take far too many resources to truly investigate from a 3rd party point of view, and in some cases, it’s not even possible to see the full picture. For example, if you kicked someone for being abusive on TeamSpeak/etc, ArenaNet would never know and you could never prove that reason (even if you had it recorded). You would have to purposely wait until there was a record of them doing something in-game to be truly safe (chat or combat logs).

If you kick someone without cause, nothing will happen. If however you kick many people within a certain time span and each one reported you, you will probably be investigated. They may even automatically issue a ban after a certain amount of unique reports with similar reasons.

Realistically, the best ArenaNet can do is try to mitigate unjust kicks by limiting how often and when you are able to initiate one.

I made an LFG a couple days ago.

I was trying to find an organised map for doing Dry Top.
I was joined by dozens (and I mean literally over 24 people) who joined me for no reason and I had to kick them all.

I don’t think your solution is more than a band-aid to a wound Anet has inflicted upon themselves.

the only solution is to make the original party leader unkickable

IceVyper.6810:

Duke Nukem.6783:

IceVyper.6810:

Duke Nukem.6783:

IceVyper.6810:

If I percieve a party member as any of the below listed things, that person is going to get kicked:

*rude
*slacker
*uncooperative

so your perception is flawless and should be trusted at all times?

If it is my party – yes. I have certain requirements for people that I play with, and if they are not met, that party member has to go. I will not meddle in what happens in outside parties.

oh so you aggree with the autonomy of the party owner? and that the party owner should be unkickable?

I believe that the party creator should be a party leader as well, and that person sets the rules for the instance. That person should be unkickable.

If the leader has specified that the party is going to speedrun a dungeon, and gets joined by obviously unexperienced people, that are hindering that run, it is the leader’s right to kick them.

then i 100% aggree with you!

Behellagh.1468:

This change is only to fix the problem with the dungeon instance derezing of the “owner”, determined solely by who entered the instance first according to the server, drops or quits.

Everything else being discussed here has nothing to do with that. An improved kick system, instanced “ownership” is entirely a separate set of issues. Yes this change may snap the problems some of us seen with instances being hijacked into sharp focus for ANet because I can see that kind of abuse increasing, but that’s not the reason for this change.

For players who do get along and do instances, this was an annoying problem. They fixed that. Fixing social issues dealing with casual Vs uber players when it comes to instance content, entirely different problem.

you cant ignore that the solution caused a much bigger problem, and can easily be fixed by giving the dungeon owner immunity, which is the right thing to do anyways

IceVyper.6810:

Duke Nukem.6783:

IceVyper.6810:

If I percieve a party member as any of the below listed things, that person is going to get kicked:

*rude
*slacker
*uncooperative

so your perception is flawless and should be trusted at all times?

If it is my party – yes. I have certain requirements for people that I play with, and if they are not met, that party member has to go. I will not meddle in what happens in outside parties.

oh so you aggree with the autonomy of the party owner? and that the party owner should be unkickable?

Lucyfer.9517:

eekzie.5640:

Lucyfer.9517:

WE don’t need anything. You obviously do. Longbow ranger in dungeons i guess that explains those kicks.

Why? This game is advertised as ‘’play the way you want to play’‘… not play the way other people decide they want you to play because else you can get kicked for no reason other than they didn’t like it.

You are free to play as you want to play alone. When you want group content, where party members depend on each other, least you could do is carry your weight instead of draging others down. Play as you want, so i understand you would have nothing against runing dungeons with players without armor and with lvl 1 weapons if thats how they want to play?

if they start the party and want to do a “WACKY” run then YES they can do no armor and lv 1 weapons, i think that sounds like an interesting concept, a fun day out on a unique adventure of creativity and imagination……all you see it as is a decrease in your bottom line profits…….

Lishtenbird.2814:

A supposedly easy band-aid fix:

• Dungeon owner cannot be kicked. I.e. has an “instance owner” buff icon or has no “Kick from party” option or that option shows an error alert. “Instance owner” will exist in the database anyway because you need someone to show in the cutscenes.
• If the dungeon owner leaves, instance is preserved as the patch suggests. Whether the new “person for cutscenes” is kickable or not is another matter and can be addressed later on.

Meanwhile I will be cautious of doing any dungeons with PUGs after this change goes live, even though this is a good change per se.

good suggestions

Behellagh.1468:

TheFamster.7806:

Well now instead of joing a “help needed at lupi” party, people will join in and kick those in need and continue the dungeon. Oh joy

They do this already. They just need to enter the dungeon first. This change isn’t a fix for that.

iv heard of greifers doing this but never seen it , its uncomon as malice for the sake of malice is a rare motivation, but greed? u can BET this will become more common once anet makes this change, party leader immunity is the right hting to do regardless

Lucyfer.9517:

Duke Nukem.6783:

Lucyfer.9517:

Duke Nukem.6783:

Lucyfer.9517:

Duke Nukem.6783:

Lucyfer.9517:

When you are in party do you see party leader icon somewhere? Is some player marked differently? Has more power than other players? Nope? Because there is no party leader in anets system. All players in group are equal none of them own the others or host the others in their “home”. You don’t own anything being party leader is just some silly illusion you created for yourself to justify why you cant be touched and need to be treated differently than others. Your system will never happen, party leaders do not exist.

your so right lets add a party leader icon (since we now need one cuz of this update)

WE don’t need anything. You obviously do. Longbow ranger in dungeons i guess that explains those kicks.

you just proved exactly why this change is a bad idea, you think its ok to kick me for the way i want to play, its not, your wrong, no debate on that, and anet will aggree

Don’t get me wrong i would not kick anyone based on their build, i just have a ranger alt and i know how ineficient it is. Other party members have to work harder because you do only half of a persons work, so i can see how some can be unhappy with it and want to kick you. You kind of bring it on yourself.

i bring your opinion of a specific build on myself? no i do not, you prove your ignorance and narrow mindedness again and we NEED protection from your ignorance, you are a menace and your pre conceived notions of your ranger do not translate to my ranger (or anyone’s ranger) and no amount of reporting kickers can fix this, and even if they all get perma banned (which they should) am i going to get my time back? no

Who is this “we” you keep talking about? As far as i know you want protection only to your imaginary party leader position, for yourself and no one else. You say i’m ignorant and narrowminded, that i’m a menace, yet no arguments to back it up. You clearly lack arguments and started hurling insults instead. I’m done conversing with you.

there r currently 5 threads on the front page with people expressing this exact concern,, and my arguments are detailed and clear throughout this entire thread, did u even bother to go through and read them alll…….or did you just skip to the end result and post the same way you kick good honest alternative people from your dungeon parties! (zing!)

laokoko.7403:

they should at least increase the number of people to kick. 3 or 4.

if 4 random people that don’t know each other want to kick you, and you are the party leader, you probably deserve it.

i dont aggree its still your party and they are guests in it, they can get out

FenrirSlakt.3692:

The Party Leader needs to be in absolute control of the instance.
Whenever a Kick Vote is requested, it should fall onto the leader to decide whether it goes or not. It might be abusable, but it is better than getting kicked from your own groups at the end of the run by random ill-intentioned people.

There needs to be control.

EXACTLY!

Lucyfer.9517:

Duke Nukem.6783:

Lucyfer.9517:

Duke Nukem.6783:

Lucyfer.9517:

When you are in party do you see party leader icon somewhere? Is some player marked differently? Has more power than other players? Nope? Because there is no party leader in anets system. All players in group are equal none of them own the others or host the others in their “home”. You don’t own anything being party leader is just some silly illusion you created for yourself to justify why you cant be touched and need to be treated differently than others. Your system will never happen, party leaders do not exist.

your so right lets add a party leader icon (since we now need one cuz of this update)

WE don’t need anything. You obviously do. Longbow ranger in dungeons i guess that explains those kicks.

you just proved exactly why this change is a bad idea, you think its ok to kick me for the way i want to play, its not, your wrong, no debate on that, and anet will aggree

Don’t get me wrong i would not kick anyone based on their build, i just have a ranger alt and i know how ineficient it is. Other party members have to work harder because you do only half of a persons work, so i can see how some can be unhappy with it and want to kick you. You kind of bring it on yourself.

i bring your opinion of a specific build on myself? no i do not, you prove your ignorance and narrow mindedness again and we NEED protection from your ignorance, you are a menace and your pre conceived notions of your ranger do not translate to my ranger (or anyone’s ranger) and no amount of reporting kickers can fix this, and even if they all get perma banned (which they should) am i going to get my time back? no

IceVyper.6810:

If I percieve a party member as any of the below listed things, that person is going to get kicked:

*rude
*slacker
*uncooperative

so your perception is flawless and should be trusted at all times?

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

Wait until you get kicked from your own instance. I’m not so sure if it’s a positive change overall, considering we fixed 1 thing and added 2 problems into the mix.

exactly what iv been railing about on my thread for an hour or more now…..

Lucyfer.9517:

Duke Nukem.6783:

Lucyfer.9517:

When you are in party do you see party leader icon somewhere? Is some player marked differently? Has more power than other players? Nope? Because there is no party leader in anets system. All players in group are equal none of them own the others or host the others in their “home”. You don’t own anything being party leader is just some silly illusion you created for yourself to justify why you cant be touched and need to be treated differently than others. Your system will never happen, party leaders do not exist.

your so right lets add a party leader icon (since we now need one cuz of this update)

WE don’t need anything. You obviously do. Longbow ranger in dungeons i guess that explains those kicks.

you just proved exactly why this change is a bad idea, you think its ok to kick me for the way i want to play, its not, your wrong, no debate on that, and anet will aggree

Daggos Skelito.2910:

TehPwnerer.7215:

In GW1 if you formed a party you can kick someone at any time and nobody else would leave the party just because you kicked them. Did you even play GW1? Lol if the party leader leaves a mission or explorable zone, nobody else is kicked from anything.

Plus the next in line is leader whether they like it or not and nobody can join from the outside. Once the party is formed and ready you enter, it’s do or fail.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User_interface#Party_window

but you cant kick in the instance anyway, and the party leader has single control of who is and isnt allwed in the party when preparing, its not a perfect reference but its worth examining for the sake of progression of ideas

this is why this solution will not work anet must make it take more kicks to remove someone or make it so the party leader cant be kicked (they made it so it belongs to them, its an issue of autonomy)