Guild Wars 2

Kaizer.7135:

Yeah we kinda have to go stealth, we can get downed by already downed players -.-

That’s the case with every glass cannon.

As to the other clueless thieves:

Necro and Ranger interrupts require a target. The traited stealth duration also makes it possible to stay in stealth for the whole duration of the stomp.

Stealth stomp is only countered with a handful of effects in the game. Is it OP? I don’t know, to be honest. Stability stomp is even less counter-able than a stealth stomp. However, the fact that the thief can down you almost immediately (less frequent after the signet change, but still possible) and then stomp you so others can’t reliably counter it is certainly OP.

Invulnerability > Endure Pain. Conditions and CC can still be applied with Endure Pain.

And yeah, it also recharges virtues if you’ve forgotten.

SY! was way too strong for bunker builds with super boon duration. It’s still an ok ability, just not something EVERY bunker is going to pick.

The +10% to SoW damage is kind of… lame, though. It does feel like a “throw them something so they don’t cry as hard” type of buff.

They don’t want double stuns (or quadruple stuns, actually) with the Venom Rechange trait to be possible.

Go one step beyond.

http://i35.tinypic.com/1sjmet.jpg

1. Everybody but Thieves, huh? Also, false, the difference of a few thousand helth is one heartseeker.

2. So you want people to trait exclusively to counter Thieves? And false again, not all classes have these traits and some of these don’t even increase defense in any meaningful way. Dodging doesn’t work against invisible enemies and against Steal into CnD+BS, remember than evading a BS doesn’t bring a Thief out of stealth, he can run at you and spam BS, even double dodge won’t grant you enough evasion time to outlast a 4s stealth.

3. Wow. Should we also learn to open our chakras and release our ki to slow down time? Seriously, listen to sounds? In a chaotic PvP environment, sounds that indicate that attack is already in progress and you won’t be able to dodge in time with lag anyway, even if you somehow hear it? And even if you heard and evaded once, that’s not gonna help you.

4. False. Stealth stomp is much better. Thieves can disengage and escape attacks extremely well, focusing one down is not a simple matter and is going to waste a lot of your time if you’re fighting a triple-dodge Thief or someone who will just stealth and WAIT for you to switch targets, then attack. CnD into HiS into Black Powder results in a lot of stealth time that can be used defensively.

5. Too bad damage reveal Thieves. You hit him for 2k, he instagibs you a fraction of a second later. Not to mention that it’s easy to time attacks well when you’re freaking invisible.

6. False. You don’t die in 2-3 AAs. And hey, didn’t you advice to spec defensively? A defensive GS Warrior hits for 600 with AAs. BS Thieves have 12-19k HP not 3-4k, that’s without any investment in Acrobatics, just use Knight’s Amulet/Zerker Jewel vs Zerker/Zerker, you don’t lose a lot of damage and can still instagib targets. Swinging at air is useful, but it’s easy to maneuver out of range and come back to attack when the enemy is swinging the other direction.

7. Again, telling people to spec exclusively to counter Thieves. Warriors, for example, have only two truly offensive melee weapons, that’s GS and Axe. Guardian has two true offensive weapins – GS and Sword. Axe/Mace Warrior is not any different from the popular Axe/Shield Warrior and is more effective against Thieves due to Shield Block.

Another clueless Thief circlejerk thread.

Did you see the traits? Stuff like Infusion of Shadow, Quick Recovery, Opportunist? It’s possible to Stealth every 3 seconds and never run out of Initiative using CnD and only some of these traits.

Your HP is on par with Elementalists and Guardians. You also have a lot of HP regeneration and blind spam. One successful blind effectively adds HP and you can blind targets every 3 seconds or permablind melee targets.

Stealth has rendering issues. The engine can’t handle contant re-stealthing, resulting in Thief being invisible good 2 seconds after the Stealth ended.

You run faster than most enemies with Signet of Shadows or spammable Swiftness on evading (and that’s with Fleet Shadow being bugged and not working lol), also running is not an option in a point capture game, unless it’s the graveyard point.

And to the poster above me… we’re talking about PvP. Although the GS/Axe build on Warriors with Haste/Endure Pain is their only viable build and is arguably overpowered. Nothing like BS Thief, though, of course.

They kill you in seconds even with Protection, tested on a Guardian.

Your decoy was ruined when you tried to compare Hammer Warrior to a Backstab Thief, it became immediately apparent what your class is.

If you run around with 12k health and 900 Toughness, without a single shadowstep, no Hard to Catch, no snares to counter Earthshaker/Bull’s Charge… well, you will die. Not as fast as a 3k armor, 25k health Warrior would die against your backstabs, but still you will die.

You thieves are going to such great lengths to try and justify your OP class it’s really getting quite insane.

Why the bleed duration?

Also, you will get eaten alive by conditions.

Another lying thief, that’s getting old, guys.

Stealth is the best survival too in PvP. You also have immense regeneration and access to a great number of CC and blind. Also, no one should be able to drop balanced builds in 3 seconds. Your class also has the best mobility, making escapes OR engages a trivial matter.

You’re not convincing anyone with your lies. In this game one can create any class in 5 minutes and PvP with it, it’s not like other MMOs when people are forced to consider your arguments. Thieves will get nerfed and boy, am I looking forward to it. There will be so many tears from scrubs like you having to play on an even field with the others. And it will be our turn to tell you to “learn to play”.

All proccing Sigils put a “No proc debuff” on you which disables all gear-related procs for the duration. The duration of the debuff is equal the cooldown of the proc that activated it. Both sigils work simultaneously, so Sigil of Blood on warhorn will proc on Sword crits.

Everything works in WvW (80% of your enemies are underleveled and undergeared characters), but my guess is that you haven’t tried it in sPvP.

Terrible damage and survivability is mediocre at best. Condition removal isn’t even that good when you are forced to fight on Necro wells and Chaos Storm, condition are spammed at you, a couple condi removers won’t do. To be able to truly counter conditions on the Warrior in sPvP you need to take everything there is and you will still be more vulnerable to conditions than top-tier classes that can simply make all the condition applications miss/hit decoys or automatically remove them. On top of that you have low HP/armor. I’ve been running with 3100 armor and it’s still not enough to outlast Thieves or anyone really.

The damage is bad because it’s a condition build on a warrior. You can very slow stacking bleeds and nothing else. Sword builds (our best condi weapon) do more damage with Berserker’s rather than with Rampager’s/Rabid/Carrion.

Because many of us don’t like the gameplay of a certain OP profession? Is it THAT hard to understand?

I have a Thief. I deliberately refuse to play it because it’s just too easy and anti-fun for everyone involved.

I doesn’t matter much in PvP. Even with 2k Toughness you will be dying in seconds to a Thief or to 2+ players of a different profession.

Either go super tanky with healing shouts and regeneration from teammates (that’s still a bad build, but this way it will at least make a difference, at least until you get poisoned/stunned inside Chaos Storm) or go GS glass cannon with 900 Toughness.

No idea about PvE.

I don’t know about PvE, but in PvP MH Sword is utter trash, only good for jumping around.

Infusion of Shadow nerfed to 1 Initiative regen

Revelaed increased to 5 seconds

All stealth duration decreased by 1 second

Assassin Signet nerfed to grant 5 stacks of might

Heartseeker cost increased by 1

No, we don’t.

You can go super defensive, but you will be about 1/3 of a bunker that Guardian/Ele/Engie are.

And here, ladies and gentlemen, is the sad example of Warrior’s reality. Greatsword, never swapped it for 80 levels straight, never change the build. Says something, doesn’t it?

I didn’t time it, but I’m sure it’s about 10%, 15% at max.

It also doesn’t stack with Swiftness, meaning you will always move at 133% with Swiftness, trait or no trait.

The score in sPvP games doesn’t mean much, I’d even say that it means you’re underperforming if it’s too high.

To achieve the highest score you just need to circle-zerg with your team, killing outnumbered defenders and getting 20 points for every killed player plus 20 points for every capped point. That’s what all PuG sPvP teams are doing at the moment. Can’t blame people for doing that, that’s what the game rewards you for, a winning bonus is 25 point, it’s just not worth it.

There are different Thieves. The “experimental” types that run evasive SB, P/P, P/D and other unconventional builds and the cookie cutter Thieves that mastered the broken laggy Stealth and crazy scaling attacks. You won’t have much of a problem with the first ones, generally speaking, but it’s the second type that will destroy you. More and more people are learning correct rotations with their Thieves. Next time you’re in PvP try taking a mental note of what Thieves are you fighting against, see the death log and you will start noticing Backstab and Heartseeker numbers being on top quite often.

Axe/Axe is alright, but it offers a steady flow of damage, and being in melee doesn’t allow you to constantly stay on the target. OH Axe is also a bit weak in terms of the damage it provides, Dual Strike is quite weak and doesn’t deal a lot of damage, and we still have SoR and other sources of Fury, so the secondary effect isn’t good; Whirling Axe is a very low damaging ability, it’s main strength is combo triggering, which is difficult to use in disorganized PuG PvP. GS is so good because it doesn’t leave any room for defense or retaliation, you knockdown and execute 100b in 1.5 seconds, the target is now dead and a 3v3 became a sure-win 2v3.

Thieves said that. Thief is the most popular PvP class atm.

Well, actually, it’s not the worst possible scenario. CnD and Steal hit simultaneously and BS follows a fraction of a second later. But you probably didn’t know that you could Steal into CnD… well, you know now!

Now add Assassin Signet with Signets of Power. Suddenly your 13k jumps to 16-17k. Now add Runes of the Scholar. What’s this, 19k? Now add the nature of PvP and the possibility that you’re hitting a wounded target, e.g. someone with less than 50% HP. It’s 21-22k with Executioner now.

But hey, it’s fine. You survived somehow. Now you just have to face a full HP Thief with full Initiative that spams HS at you. Oh wait, you can’t survive that with <20% HP left

See? A reality check is easy when you have a brain and are not biased. Unofrtunately, you will never be able to do that. So just stick to playing the game with your “totally balanced profession” and leave the thinking to the big boys, ok?

Don’t worry, Thief will be nerfed and then we will all be on the even playing field. I know… it sucks that you will have to actually work for your kills, but, trust me, you will get used to it and even start to appreciate the challenge.

Gurubu.1693:

I highly recommend the +200 toughness when you’re snared (trait). A warrior must have :P

I personally use the heal ability with condition removers, as well as shake it off (shout) with traits that reduce shouts CD by 20%. The cooldown reduction is also nice when using “For great justice”, you essentially get 10 seconds of fury every 20 seconds.

Ah, that trait that makes you take 3% less damage from some attacks sometime.

2OP: Warrior is a PvE class. He has one role in PvP – glass cannon roamer, but he’s severely outclassed by the Thief in this role. The profession just lacks PvP skills, most abilities are very numeric and weak, and are intended to increase the performance of 5 people beating on a static NPC in the math contest of white numbers vs HP pool. 70 power for everyone, little buffs, little heals, a few percent of damage mitigation, a bit quicker rez etc. Add the fact that pure mitigation means nothing in this game, it’s all about avoidance, target cancel, stealth, blind spam etc. and Warrior has nothing of the sort and you have yourself quite a pathetic class. Don’t PvP on the Warrior, unless you have a team dedicated to building themselves around your one trick of Frenzy 100b.

The show is pretty terrible. The host is a stuntman and pretends he knows something about real fighting and real weapons.

It’s a PvP weapon. Sadly, that’s how some of the weapon sets were designed, which cuts the already low amount of usable active abilities.

Rise.9702:

Oh yeah, people just do no like Mace on this game do they? xD!
I’m glad someone else used Mace and having an easier time. Then again I’m doing a Tank/support type of build.
I’ma full mace user here on PvE. I’m almost level 40 and have been using it the whole time.
I can get 2-3 higher enemy’s too. The 1-2 1st skills on mace are lovely.~

Mace was always regarded as a good solo PvE weapon, dunno what you’re talking about. It’s crap for everything else though.

Schwahrheit.4203:

Mace only works with defensive builds? I guess if that’s your idea of low level viability because you lack skill level. Like no offense but that’s just the issue with mace. Seriously Mace + Shield stun lock combos with a glass cannon set-up is pretty good, just that no one has the balls to actually try to make plays with glass cannon Mace + GS. A simple slight attack speed buff on Mace’s 1 would be nice. All it should need honestly.

And no GS shouldn’t need any nerfs. Most people are saying they can see HB coming so therefore its fine as is. Therefore most people are okay with HB. You don’t fix something that isn’t broken.

About condition damage, you can’t simply stack bleed. You have to have a long bow to maximize it. The fact that long bow has possibly unintended bugs such as F1 not working when you’re blinded makes it a very unforgiving weapon. And now that people are actually putting Necros in their teams which hard counters the hell out of condition damage, you don’t want to nerf GS. Add to the fact that the adrenaline system is unforgiving for long bow.. which needs to use F1 the most.

I have done glass cannon mace. It’s terrible.

Yes, Warriors and Thieves have killed me and others before we had the time to react, it’s possible to die to Mug+CnD+BS right away. Stop lying, please, doesn’t help the discussion.

ColdSpyder.9082:

OP states that thieves kill based on what class we’re targetting. Clearly a newbie.
Not every elementalist (Or other dps-y seeming class) rolls glass cannon. Good players know they need to stack a lot of defensive stats. I have 20k hp on my thief while still outputting hilarious damage because I know that my instantaneous dps went down, but my effective dps went up.
You do more damage when you’re alive. Try stacking some vit.
Maybe put a stunbreaker on your hotbar. Mezzies can TP, eles can mistform/obby armor, warrs can endure pain, and although I’m not sure about other class specific counter mechanisms, I DO know that all classes can dodge. Please try stunbreaking and dodging that backstab thief next time. It’s far from an instantaneous process.

Defensive Elementalist is OP, no wonder you’re feeling good. Well, that is if you were playing an Ele, sneaky boy. It doesn’t matter if you can shield yourself for a few seconds when the Thief can disengage and come back with full HP/Resources whenever he wishes. I don’t know if you can stunbreak and dodge in 1/5th of a second, I sure don’t. You WILL eat Steal, CnD and Backstab. That will either kill you outright or put you in the HS/BS spam zone. Dodging won’t help.

I hope A-net won’t buy into bullkitten and nerf you guys. The game only suffers because of this class.

I hope BS gets nerfed, it’s the thing that rules meta right now and thus it must be adjusted. A class with spammable invulnerability (Invis is effective invulnerability, yes) shouldn’t be having such damage output.

And it will get nerfed. The question is when and how much. And seeing how “fast” A-net is… well, not like this game had any future on the E-sports arena anyway.

You should’ve learned telepathy, seen the Thief coming and then hacked the game to dodge 10 times in a row. Seriously, l2p.

“Getting improved resolve almost doubles its regen mine is at 318 healing.”

It adds 30 HPS, that’s all.

Big Boss.6248:

Apparently no one is reading the opening post. THE SKILLS ARE NOT UNDERPOWERED JUST COMPLETELY DULL AND BORING.

But they are. At least Rampage is.

And everything about the Warrior is dull and boring. Half if the class’s skills are mild AoE buffs.

Warriors are straightforward and lack OP broken mechanics, like effective perma-stealth, target cancel, perma-Retaliation, 100% heal coef. (Selfless Daring, 2k heal without a cooldown), perma Evade (Thief Unicorn build), 5+ permanent boons (Guards and Engies). This is the stuff that makes classes excel in PvP in GW2. On top of that Warrior is crippled with slow, delayed animations (almost all skills have this little “wind up” that most other classes lack, compare Savege Leap to Leap of Faith for example).

Warriors lack cheap stuff to abuse. Warriors just run around and hit people. That’s too easy to counter.

And it will never change, Warrior will always be a bottom-tier profession. Sometimes they will overbuff certain skills making a Warrior either deal uber-damage for a few weeks or be super tanky, then they will be nerfing it. But at the core Warrior will always stay a “village fool” profession, somebody who brings a knife into a gunfight, a dumb brute without any tricks up his sleeve. A PvE profession.

ColdSpyder.9082:

Alrighty folks, it seems we have a decent spread of bets here!
For the record, I’m asking what’s going to be nerfed, not asserting that it’s unjust (although some particulars I might assert are unjust in another thread).
To be honest, there were /are a few things that need to be nerfed/fixed with the thief. One example being the pistolwhip/haste combo. I’d suggest scaling the stun duration down the same amount the channel is scaled (so it’d last half as long). Of course, devourer venom stacked with that would still keep the combo where it is, but that’s a whole nother cooldown they’re blowing for a combo that already isn’t too lethal. Plus with immobilize holding you there lets you retalliate.
Anyway, let’s try and get creative! What things might they nerf? For example, shortly after release they stealth-nerfed infiltraitor’s strike to only cover half of the distance.

If there’s one thing I hope they don’t nerf it’s the Shadow Returns. That’s what makes this class interesting and unique. The jukes!

And it’s not actually overpowered in the point control games. So you escaped, now what? But it’s just a fun ability.

I like that proposed “Kidnap” ability.

Make it both for enemies and friendlies. Get to the target, tag it and shadowstep back with the target.

This is my preferred PvP build. In sPvP anyway. Trait for Health regen while in stealth and you have yourself a surprisingly durable fighter IF you can stick on your target and keep CnDing his sorry behind, get kited or surprised BS’d or catch a 100b in the face and you’re done for. And I like it. It feels like the build has definitive strengths and definitive weaknesses which you must try to account for.

But Flanking Strike is just bad. Really, you only need spammable Boon removal vs those “I stack all boons forever” types, like SY! Guardians, Engineers, Tank Eles and maybe some Rangers. But these guys also kite you around making the woefully slow and awkward FS hurt you more than assist you. It also deals low damage, which doesn’t help either.

Boon removal is good, but animations like that have no place in PvP, especially when you’re chasing a perma-Swiftness Engie while having five of his turrets shooting at you.

I’m usually the guy who tries to appreciate even situational skills, but this one is just… bad. And I don’t know if A-net aknowledges the problem.

I don’t agree, as it doesn’t change the way we play at all. Unlike Heartseeker, which we can choose when to use, we will always be spamming the 1 chain on the Sword Warrior, no matter the amount of HP our enemy has.

Bottom line, an ability like that wouldn’t add any depth to the Warrior. If you just want to buff the Sword, there are other ways.

Assassin Signet nerfed to “The next attack is a critical hit”.

Heartseeker cost increased by 1 Initiative.

Revealed duration increased to 5 seconds.

Whirling Axe ability provided by Steal has it’s damage reduced by 20%.

Other than that, I don’t see any nerfs coming. I’d actually count on some buffs.

“Has a chance”? Warrior is the easiest for me to beat. That profession is handicapped. Outside of the 100b combo, it’s really easy to make the Warrior play by your rules. And even if something goes wrong, he won’t be able to chase you down, so just go away and come back later.

Now, I’m playing a Daze Thief, which is pretty good at 1v1, but even as P/P or S/P, I’ve not had any troubles. It’s all about avoiding/countering Bolas and Bull’s Charge.

Tanky Warriors can be a problem, because their damage to survivability ratio is so higher than yours they just outlast you, but even those are possible to beat with good timing on interrupts and Poison to counter healing.

Lookie here. It doesn’t mean that one attack does the most damage and you’re spamming it. It means that this attack is totally self-sufficient and you don’t need to use any utilities to set up your damage.

Over the top damage – no need for quick interrupts, one HS will outDPS his heal anyway. Low cost – just spam, no need to use abilities or careful timing to regenerate INI. Gap closer – no need to cripple/stun/dispel Swiftness, just spam. Leap finisher – triggers Stealth and all kinds of beneficial effects easily with no setback.

Ranger is tougher than a Warrior.

This part of the story is pretty bad, but… heh, just brace yourself for what’s coming next.

It’s the fantasy syndrome. Your character is worth a squad of Seraph, you’re just that good, and thus can make a difference in any fight.

The part with Kellach, however… Sigh.

“We can’t allow him to just make his way into Divinity’s Reach, because he will destroy everything in his path.”

But you still fight him in the throne room. What the hell?

How did he freely enter the city and made his way into the throne room and why is the city, that just got ravaged by an under horde, looks none worse for wear? What… why… what the hell?

The “artifact” that he has. Never mentioned. It also wasn’t destroyed, so the undead horde must have been still there in the city. Dumb.

A couple of guards protecting the queen in the throne room. Seems like a wise idea, right? No. It doesn’t.

“At the level where you’re doing the well storyline, though, there are centaurs and bandits spread through most of Queensdale (in other words, the farmlands that the city relies on to survive) – the Seraph is stretched pretty close to breaking point, and a poisoned well may well be a fair tradeoff compared to having the farmlands Divinity’s Reach relies on destroyed entirely.”

Except there are many guards inside the city, just like… patrolling. They can’t stop ONE bandit gang? Even when they know they’re coming? What about the ministry guard? The Shining Blade? The orders? It’s the heart of the human civilization, why can’t you have at least a batallion of guards there? Divinity’s Reach is dripping opulence. Lots of traders, kiosks full of food and other goods, children laughing… it doesn’t look desperate or that the city is at it’s breaking point at all. Hell, Altdorf in WAR still had guards in it, and their sutuation was worse.

There are only few things on the Thief that are deemed OP by the community. Spamseeker, espcially with Haste, because it’s a lot sure-hit damage with a gap closer, PW Haste (been toned down, but still shreds people in seconds while perma-stunning them), Backstab /w Signet (really, not called to be OP in sPvP, but it’s annoying to get 1 shotted in WvW) and perma-stealth aka lag that makes Thieves still be invisible aboust 2 seconds after they came out of stealth.

All of that is justified.

Another complaint that you don’t hear that often, is Thief underwater skills that make him permanently invulnerable if you manage them properly. Also a justified complaint.

WTB this trait: “Unyielding Defense: Your Shield skills now put Aegis on you”.

“II. Combine Improved Spirit Weapon Duration with Spirit Weapon Mastery”

I have to disagree. It seems that every proposal now has these. Combine two very powerful traits, because I don’t want to spend two major traits on them.

It’s fine to propose things like that if one of the traits is a complete filler and is never taken by anyone. Like the +90 Tou when you have the Shield equipped. These two traits, however, are very powerful. You don’t have to spec for both of them, it’s just the fact that we have these powerful traits is what makes you think we’re stretched, but that’s not it, it’s all about options.

That being said, I’d be totally for combining Wrathful Spirits and Spirit Weapon mastery. Wrath Spirits just isn’t so good. It’s 10% damage, which is “ok”, but it only affects Spirit Weapons (unlike, say, Slashing Power on the Warrior), which aren’t up all the time and a lot of their damage comes from A Fire Inside, which isn’t affected by Wrathful Spirits, SW normal damage is not that high, actually.

I’d certainly combine Greatsword Power and Zealous Blade. God, Zealous Blade is bad… however, all that’s nice, but combining traits forces devs to make new ones, creating more imbalance in an already imbalanced game. But these two should be buffed, at least the Zealous Blade trait… so bad.

“The Scepter getting a Symbol”

That would be a massive buff. It would synergize well, but would require a CD increase or a damage nerf.

and you don’t know how to respond (AoE, Conditions, any number of possibilities)

^That’s fun how you list just two options, one of which is wrong (Retal still works on AoE attacks and if you happen to hit several enemies that have Retal you’re going to die even quicker) and another is stupid (not all builds are Condi damage, bunker Guards have quite a bit of Condi removal, Condition-builders are often attacks that make you get hit by Retal) and say “lots of options”.

There are really two options. Boon removal, which doesn’t always work (too many sources of Retal) and is extremely scarce or just not attacking, but since GW2 is a point defense game, that’s not an option, not to mention it’s possible to have nearly 100% Retal uptime.

Retal, as a concept, is fine. It’s impossible to not get hit in PvP, so the whole “works against the idea of active combat” shtick is really just a wish-wash, people get hit, people die, and that’s when Retal comes into play. It would be fine if it worked like A-net intended it to, e.g. a short term punishing effect for countering clusterkittens at the Keep/Clocktower, which forces the enemy to be careful and watch his attacks or get punished. That’d be nice if A-net knew what abilities are actually in the game, so they don’t nerf the SoW and nerf Retal uptime trait and Retal on Virtues trait instead, but no dice in here. What we have now is pretty much a lose-lose situation. Bunker builds that can take on 3+ enemies and live, dealing heavy damage through Retaliation alone, without having to time it properly.

Get Signet of Healing. Enjoy not taking any damage from regular mobs. Not exaggerating much.