Guild Wars 2

flow.6043:

People seem to be mixing up two things here:

1. Necro as a roaming class.
Arguably necros can’t solo roam as well as other classes because of their low mobility.
Imo being able to escape a few situations has its advantages but it doesn’t mean you accomplish anything more as a roamer than a low mobility class like the necro.

2. The original post here says that necros – regardless of build – lose straight up 1v1s against certain classes. This has nothing to do with roaming, mobility or escapes.
Also, I completely disagree with this statement.

it isn’t a straight up 100% lose but a fight that doesnt give the necro a 50-50 chance.
i am not even asking for a build option to hardcounter a kiting build, but a build option to fight evenly with a kiting build.

as of now, 2 equally skilled players, kiter vs necro, kiter has a 70-30 advantage at least.
and we got no builds currently on the necro to even make it 50-50. let alone a build that allows us to 70-30 a kiter.

mordran.4750:

If you like to roam, Necro is the wrong class for you. The Necro lacks simple core abilities you need to have for roaming which is mobility and disengages. If i were you i would level a Mesmer or a Warrior for solo roaming.

that is precisely the problem. why is necro the only class without this ‘roaming’ ability?

every other class can engage or disengage at will if they build for it.

trapper ranger
GS+S/D ranger
any thief
PU/blink heavy mesmers
GS+S/x warriors
GS+S/x medi guards (engage kiters easy, disengage depends on situation)
rocketboots perma swiftness engineers
cantrip dd eles with flaming sword elite

every class can.
except…

edit: anyway thats not my gripe here. my gripe is that in combat against any class with a kiting build, a necro doesn’t have a build option to fight them evenly. this is a problem that no other class faces.

wow well done. i know quite a few of those you fought and they are pretty good but you bested them!

Rym.1469:

Eremite, you seem to hardcounter yourself and your previous opinions with every following thread.

i am many personalities…not sure if that is a medical condition….

bhagwad.4281:

Roe.3679:

So what you’ve been doing is forcing necro into a roaming role even though it’s been known for years to have weaknesses in that area, and then complaining when better roaming classes have an advantage. This is the definition of forcing a round peg into a square hole, and you’re complaining that it’s not fitting.

Again, he’s complaining that being good or bad in roaming should be a function of your build, not your class.

I think bhagwad gets my point totally and put it very clearly.

oZii.2864:

I haven’t had much problem with LB rangers I fought one I thought was decent and he caught me off guard. I been running plague and locust signet and usually corrupt boon with staff/scepter+warhorn. A lot of roaming builds rely on boons so I just keep corrupting their boons to keep condi pressure up. Nightmare runes are good if you are worried about being caught of guard.

Warriors have been a little difficult with rampage.

Rampage is fine. Necros have options to counter it. Elite plague form or lich form counters it very well. traited shroud stability and stun breaks counters it to some extent too. Even berserker mode, if you are condi, counter it with spectral walk/wurm or just use shroud to tank through it.
It is fine because we can build to counter it.

BUT KITING IS DIFFERENT.

To all of those who said necro should inherently be weak against something like kiting because of class design/philosophy, I totally dont agree. like bhagwad says, a counter should be against a certain build, and not as a class totally.

Name me one class that can’t build to counter melee. Every class can.
Name me one class that can’t build to counter condi. Every class can.
NAME ME ONE OTHER CLASS THAT CAN’T BUILD TO COUNTER KITING.

Every class can EXCEPT necro.
By counter I don’t even mean to hardcounter kiting, but just to fight fairly and evenly. Necros don’t even have that option.

Even Guardians the 2nd least mobile class in the game can build to counter kiting!
Judge intervention, GS leap, sword blink, healing block, wall of reflect, invulerbility, focus shield.

Guardian is my 2nd most played class and I can fight evenly against a kiting class.

Please give necros the option to build to fight evenly against a kiting class.

Lynnie.7213:

Ravezaar.4951:

I agree with Donee and I will add the Bunker Condi Eles are also painful when they are played Correctly. Solo roaming on any class is one the best way to learn your class, traits, skills and to slowly increase your skill both in howto survive and howto beat other classes.

I spend 90%+ of my ingame time doing this and I still love it.

Aw yea, i forgot diamond skin eles! When i see that immune i just ran away, no chance for me there.

diamond skin eles are fine actually. if we are condi necro, naturally we are weaker/useless against them. but we have the option to go power build to fight them evenly.

you know, if diamond ele is scissors, then condi necro is paper. but we have the option to go power which is rock/scissors to fight them.

kiters are not fine for necros. we got no build to fight them. we are naturally weaker/useless against them and we got no build option that we can use to fight them evenly.

if kiters are scissors, then necros are paper. and against this particular scissors, we dont have a rock option. against them, all our builds are paper.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Versus-longbow-ranger-in-WvW

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/wvw-vs-mesmer/first#post5243921

these two currently on going threads support my point.
i dont like how our class got no builds that can counter them.

If I run a build that is weaker against a kiting class, but stronger against other more melee classes, fine that is my choice.
but if I want to run a build that is stronger against a kiting class and weaker against a melee class, I dont have that option.

I can only be rock or paper. I can never be that scissors.

Zalavaaris.5329:

Rock- “Nerf paper please paper is OP!!”

Ps: scissor is balanced

you’re missing my point.
my point is, every class can build to be either paper, rock or scissors.
necro can only go paper or rock. they don’t have the scissors option.

i mean necros dont have the ability to handle kiting builds on even grounds but every other class can build themselves to handle kiting builds.

This is not PVP or PVE.
This is about WvW solo roaming.

Anyone else notice the same thing?

Necros are the only class that gets hardcountered by some builds on other classes that necros have NO WAY to fight against.

No matter what build the necro uses, certain builds by certain classes will always have a strong advantage against the necro.

In short, any kiting build on any class is going to have an enormous advantage against the necro regardless of the build the necro is using.

I personally dislike this because I think necros shouldn’t be left without any decent way to deal with kiting builds. We should be allowed to have a build that is able to deal evenly with kiting builds.

I can think of a few:
Longbow ranger = we got no build that gives us an even fight against them
Rifle/GS warrior = if he knows how to kite, gosh they are almost as much a nightmare as LB ranger
Mesmer = er…the amount of blinks and invis…
Longrange engineers = er…I can’t catch at all while he runs and throws stuff at me and when I run away he can catch me and stay in range and throw stuff at me…

Just those above we got ZERO builds that lets us fight with them evenly.

I don’t think this is how a class should be balanced. every class should have a build that allows them to fight against another class’s build evenly.
It shouldnt be a case where I got zero builds to counter a LB ranger or zero builds to counter a longrange engineer or zero builds to counter a longerange kiter.

Necros as a class are the only class with zero builds that allows it to fight evenly against certain builds of other classes.
No other class faces this disadvantage.
Vs condi? they got condi clear builds
Vs kiter? they got gap closers builds
Vs melee? they got melee protection builds

Necros?
Vs condi? we got condi clear builds
Vs melee? we got melee protection builds
Vs kiter? we got no build against them

this needs to be fixed. give us a build that allows us to deal with kiting builds fairly and not be disadvantaged from the start.

I see a general trend in the forum.
How to deal with LB ranger? oh you don’t cause we are naturally disadvantage against them
How to deal with Mesmer? the other current active thread on this forum, the replies comes in, oh no you don’t, we naturally have a hard time against mesmers
and the list goes on.

The main problem is we got zero reliable gap closer.
This needs to be fixed.
Give us a lifeline.
Let us have a build, let us have options to fight a long range kiter.

Thanks.

a majestic performance!

looks like wings are becoming the latest fashion trend

Personally I love the new artworks on all the traits and skills training page

ITS SO COOL

Cogbyrn.7283:

Good on you for choosing what is fun. It’s the reason I only ever care to play my Necromancer, as well. The meta/balance will constantly ebb and flow, but if you choose something you like, you can just focus on enjoying the game and not rolling the new hotness.

this,

more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Guys, you realize that this is a massive new patch that will be tweaked and tweaked again until and after the new elite specs are introduced in HoT right?

With such massive overhauls and changes, I think we can expect that certain classes will be overpowered or underpowered, certain skills will be brokenly OP or brokenly useless and the list goes on.

Give Anet time to fix and balance things.

Start complaining 1 year after HoT arrives.

Chances are, you won’t be complaining 1 year after HoT because Anet would then have the time to fix things.

TheLastNobody.8319:

Honestly, I’d just remove the ICD on the passive, and let it and other signet passives work in DS. When you activate it, you and allies get maybe…10 stacks of signet of vampirism, which heal 400 whenever you hit someone. It would synergize so well with DS and other vamp builds in general.

this^

honestly 1v1 was all that mattered to me and I think will remain that way till GvG becomes officially recognized and supported in the coming HoT.

5v5 PvP is just one mindless slaughter and ganking again and again.
I dislike this repetiveness.

1v1 displays a lot more skills and does not end up pitting you in unequal fights which is prevalent in PvP 5v5

Velimere.7685:

I disagree with everything you said except for Confounding Suggestions only stunning on interrupt and your fourth point.

HMMMMMM

are you a mesmer enjoying your current buffs?

SlayerSixx.5763:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Stalling with Death Shroud? That is literally the main point of the mechanic!

^that. I’m in support of him and I don’t even have a necro on my account lol. Honestly, power necro is fine lol. You actually have to watch out for them now. Come on people. Necros are slow and so are a lot of their big hitters. I can understand why some of you would be a little salty that you couldn’t instsgib them and placed all of your bets on that instagib, but thats kinda your fault. Balance out your build or play some stealthgank cheese.

I totally agree with this post.
people don’t realize that there are a lot more tank necro builds out there. Not everyone is running full glass zerker necros now.
We can’t be insta KOed now.
So instead of asking to nerf us back to becoming your punching bags, please adapt and change your own playstyle, find a different target to focus.

Even rangers traited for survivability is not easy to kill.

so why should a necro traited for survivability still be easy to kill?

I dueled a slightly more skilled mesmer than me 8 times on my necro.
it ended 4 wins each.

A DRAW.

I think it is pretty even at the moment. and he was even slightly more skilled than I am. I won the first 4, but he adjusted quickly to my build and playstyle and won the next 4 thanks to his superior skills and adaptability.

so really, mesmers are not as terrible as you guys make them out to be.
all their interrupts/stuns? just counter with stability/stun breaks.

A traited necro which I am, has a 10sec shroud stunbreak with 1 3sec stability after, and I run 2 stun break utilities.

Really, if mesmers are so much pain, adapt and change your build/playstyle.

So pls stop with the nerf them threads.

Thank you.

Shiki.7148:

EremiteAngel.9765:

Amityel.5324:

Its too OP basically 3 pple focusing necro for 1 min while he was in DS out and DS out…..too OP you should balance it ANET

+1

And again you have proven that you are a troll and nothing else. Looks like I was right after all, ne?

you obviously don’t know sarcasm.

Amityel.5324:

Its too OP basically 3 pple focusing necro for 1 min while he was in DS out and DS out…..too OP you should balance it ANET

+1

vincecontix.1264:

kolompi.1287:

vincecontix.1264:

Its the pu trait thats making them to strong. They can have insane dmg and 100% steath up time + then new mimic skill makes leaves little room for counter play.

Okay, but thieves could do that for how long now? Ah yes, since the beginning.

Its a combination of things. Thief is much easier to predict and the burst isn’t as high(yes there is some set up to mes shatter). Thiefs have to get with in melee range to do any really dmg and it leaves vulnerable which isn’t the case with mesmers. Mesmers can get there interupts off from range and they have easier access to stealth with decoy and torch, its easier to interupt a hs+bp combo.

Also all the clones can clutter up the screen causing it to take a sec or 2 longer to actually spot and target the actually mesmer and with the current pace of the game every second counts big time.

this^

keep them coming! caithe bloom’s dagger best dagger skin ever?

choovanski.5462:

I’ve been playing my goku guardian build and thieves just can’t handle the kamehameha

This^

i think speced rightly, a necro can stay in shroud forever. perma tank ftw.

I am traited into unblockable staff marks but my marks still get blocked!!

GRUMBLE!

i think its more a L2P issue.
just dodge.

staff marks still blocked despite being traited to be unblockable.

same for staff marks.
traited staff mark is supposed to be unblockable but it is still getting blocked.

FIX IT PLEASE THANK YOU

I’ve heard that people employ Duo PU mesmers scouts who shadow the enemy zerg RIGHT BESIDE THEM with 100% invis uptime.

Please fix this.

Edit: I forgot to add, they lay supply traps all along the path that the zerg will most likely walk and the zerg ends up with zero supply.

edit 2: i also forgot to add, duo mesmers hiding in keeps/towers/smc/garri and flipping it without being found while they hid cos they were perma stealth!

stop asking to nerf mesmers. they are fine as they are now. I have won my fair share of duels against them on my necros so no they are not OP.

But we probably want to nerf PU 100% stealth increase because that is just not fun.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Lmao, I can’t believe people are actually making a discussion out of this. Necromancer is not OP. The end. Get good.

+1

Drayos.8759:

Gern.2978:

All in the title.

With the way condi’s are right now, plus the sheer tankyness they have always had, they have ruined PvP for me.

really? power necro exists which is quite squishy, its only the bunker necros holding sooo much survivability.

Also with Mesmers and Engineers sitting how they are u think NECROS ruined pvp? oh please, I’ll take someone who has 0 presence and lives forever over the Shatter condis Disrupting everything u do and finishing u in 2 seconds flat, or a Engi abusing the bugs which cause them to hit u for 15k dmg with Gernades.

I think its Stupid to QQ on Necros, they’re about the only class with 0 OP Mechanics and Resembling balance lol.

well said. +1

Stars.2179:

I haven’t found a will to take picture post patch yet still working on theocrafting and stuffs. But here’s a pic pre patch :P

all very good pictures!
especially this wow

Citizen.3869:

EremiteAngel.9765:

too much pro-ness you almost make me think necros need to be nerfed!!!

I see almost all your fights are outnumbered or duo fights.
which I guess would make wells a lot more effective.

What are your thoughts on solo roaming though? will your triple well build still be useful?

I’ve tried triple wells, and it completely wrecks kids unless they’re even remotely smart. It’s high risk, high reward. I prefer to run one damage well, one utility well, and a signet, along with as much condi transfer in my traits as possible.

At the end of the day, 3 wells is overkill for roaming and you won’t be able to cheese smarter players.

i think you made a very good point. a build without a way to mitigate power and condi burst is a dead build.

I am a supporter of a balanced build. For that reason I really like Gladomer’s Warrior build. He has very good condi and power mitigation although he sacrificed some damage.

sounds like yours is also a balanced build. power-focused with good condi mitigation.

I’m still running around with my hybrid necro like a boss muahahahahhahahahahaha

my current build:
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-30;3kHFH0047JkJ0;9;467A;0136156146;4I3o3L;1m9fgm9fgA0FfYmVJ;3mcm7ncn7ococ0o-NF2m;5NYCwNYBwk2Ewk2Ew7YBm;9;9;9;6V6-7-F5a

thinking of dropping the spite line for death magic though…

too much pro-ness you almost make me think necros need to be nerfed!!!

I see almost all your fights are outnumbered or duo fights.
which I guess would make wells a lot more effective.

What are your thoughts on solo roaming though? will your triple well build still be useful?

Axelwarrior.9084:

What does this patch in particular have to do with fashion?

there is the new white wings

I have a ranger, about 100+ games into PvP with him now, still learning.
But having watched many ranger streams this is what I notice

1) GS gives more burst and less survivability. Sword/dagger gives more survivability and less burst. Choose what you want according to your playstyle. Both are great.

2) You forgot to ask about the pets! I feel a LB pew pew ranger got quite a few pet options to play with, all pretty good. I’ve seen spider/pig combo, dog/wolf combo the most.

3) i dont know which traits to go either. although marksmanship is not a must.

Necro Asura

Helm: Seer Mask
Shoulders: Mantle of the Lich
Chest: Vestment of the Lich
Gloves: Adept Gloves
Pants: Embroided Pants
Shoes: Exalted Boots

Weapon: Meteorlogicus and Caithe’s Bloom Dagger

Backpack: Black Feather Wings

your warrior question?
mace/shield + hammer = win

oh i see…thanks! i never thought of moving out of the spot…I’ll try that!

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Lol, tanky Necro’s are a problem but Guardians and Warrior’s that can solo hold a point, no big deal.

Necromancer have been and still are the weakest profession in the game with the least viability in multiple areas of the game… How about let us have some nice things?

they dont know how to adapt and change their strategy
they still want to instantly KO a necro by focusing him and they cannot accept that a necro can now not be focused down that easily.
they also don’t realize that a lot of necros no longer run full zerk in PvP and are no longer squishy.

Suggestion:

create visible and COOL auras for each class depending on the different traits that they choose.

like the new guardian aura on their feet when they choose a certain elite skill.
that is SO COOL

Anonymouse.4760:

Yup, Mesmers can one shot you with a mirror blade mind wrack combo.
But I don’t see why there are so many Thieves complaining and cowering in fear —
Mesmer is one of the most highly telegraphed classes in the game. If you miss a steal or eat a mirror blade it’s almost always your own fault.
If you’re having difficulty fighting them, create a Mesmer and get a feel for its weapon skills and animations, as well as its traits and cooldowns. This should help you vastly with the matchup.

it is no longer THAT telegraphed when they have such high stealth uptimes.
they burst you from stealth and it is a burst that can’t even be predicted because thieves you can dodge like 2-3 seconds after they stealth but mesmers they can stay in there for up to 40+ seconds if they want to so you have no idea when the burst is coming

mace/shield + hammer

problem solved.

np…=D

more tips…learn their killer animations
much harder to dodge now with their high stealth uptime but still good to know…

1) if mesmer is using a sword and a clone spawns right next to you, dodge because he is likely going to blink to that clone, immobilize you and hundred blade you
2) if a pistol clone starts rapid firing you, dodge because he is going to stack a lot of bleed on you…unless you plan to transfer it back to the mesmer…=D
3) if a greatsword mesmer casts a clone near you, dodge because he is about to whirl on you
4) if a mesmer throws a rotating blade at you, dodge because he is about to burst you with his rapid clone creation shatter
5) if a mesmer comes out of stealth…don’t be too eager to burst him because he might have aegis on him so break his aegis first with an auto…even better to wait for him to expend a random dodge if you can…
6) if you are fighting a condi PU mesmer who loads you with condi and then goes invis, don’t wait around waiting for him to reappear…quickly transfer it to one of his clones…because if he chooses to, he might never reappear until you die from the condi…

may i ask how does this skill work?
is it a pulsing immobilize skill that applies immob once every pulse?
Can it be transferred to the ranger fully with just one transfer?

I tried transferring it from my necro to the ranger and the immob does transfer because the ranger got immob too, but a sec later, I get immob again by the same skill.

but then there are also times when I can transfer the whole immob successfully and not get immob after the transfer.

I tried all these like transfer immediately after getting entangled, or transfer a few secs after getting entangled. but they all seems to have different results.

it feels like a pulsing immob to me and yet when I use consume condition heal skill, I can remove the entangle completely.
or when I use shrouded removal, remove one condi on entering shroud, I can remove the entire entangle too.

My thoughts are that if you consume/remove it without transferring, you can remove the whole thing. but if you try to transfer it, you only transfer the immob that was on you and the entangle doesnt get transferred and will still pulse immob on you until end of the duration.

can anyone confirm? Thanks in advance!

i wonder if traited staff for unblockable marks will still be blocked by aegis? I fought a mesmer recently who had aegis from stealth and my mark seemed to get blocked =/