Guild Wars 2

Ravezaar.4951:

Crinn.7864:

Ravezaar.4951:

Id say u are pretty alone in this. Most includeing myself think Scourge is very strong in sPvP. As it currently stand Necro/Reaper is a team-class, Scourge has the possibilty to be both team-class, Solo or just pure point-denial.

I tho hope it dosent get nerfed mainly due to the fact it lacks any real defence, and after testing 20+ hours I cant see barrier ever, and I do meen ever compete with shroud.

In raw dps output it matches Condi Reaper/Necro, but in 2 ways it differs: it outshines Reaper in Boonstrip and AoE-dps output.

The only good boonrip on Scourge is Path of Corruption.

Scourge dies to meta thief faster than reaper does, Scourge is even more vulnerable to ranged attackers than reaper is.

It isn’t even that good against melee. I was easily able to 1v1 scourges during the beta weekend, using both GS reaper, and dagger/GS spellbreaker.

Iam sry but NO it has good Boonstrip/Convert on all of its punishment skills and Elite aswell as the F2 (wich is 4sec cd, thats insanely good). By far best Boonstrip of any Necro, of any class maybe only beaten by Spellbreaker.

Scourge is much easier to deal with meta Thief, I duelled several Guild Thieves ans Spellbreakers in that Weekend and Thieves who usually wait out Shroud, had alot more issues with Shades. Scourge is strong vs Melee classes, really strong. As long as they linger near a Shade they die, period.

Range dps there I fully agree with you, its Scourge weakness. Barrier cant mitigate well enough to counter a LB Ranger for ex.

I agree with most of your thoughts.

Most melee builds, thieves included, just die when they enter our shade radius.
Exception of staff evade thieves.
Like you said, they can’t kite and wait out our Reaper shroud anymore.

I believe though that it is more a learning phase for them, and it is not that Scourge Hard counters all melee builds.

Thieves need to fight us like how they would fight a vanilla core necro shroud. Near or far, a vanilla necro is going to do damage to you regardless of whether he was in or out of shroud. They need to bring evades in their melee builds. Staff or sword dagger for example. And they need to bring decent condi clear.

Warriors need to stack boons to cover their stab and resistance when they pressure. As amazing as our F2 is, it is only 2 boons corrupted and can be denied by covering boons.

Guardians bring heavy blocks to the fight seems to negate the shades too. I have not tested much but from my few fights, it seems like a DH with block activated on F3 will not take any damage from the shades even if he stood in the radius.

And so on.

nullixin.9462:

Staff should be much lower priority now, skill 2 only got 2 bleed stacks due to Deathly Chill, skill 3 & 5 on scourge doesn’t proc bleed. Also skill 4’s condi transfer can be replaced with dagger’s 4 and mostly unnecessary with Nefarious Favor and Abrasive Grit. Skill 5 can be replaced with torch’s 5.

Personally I’ll be using scepter, axe, dagger and torch. Shades and wells are plenty of AoE.

What stats are you looking at if you wield a mix of power and condi based weapons?

Celestial? or Viper?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBmOD7kkGocTsnGwmGgeTssMYUDhjQqK+FeD3hTzgAwLA-TpxHQBK7CAEwjAAAOIAlb/BjVGwfPAAA

Current build I’m using, mixing everyone’s suggestion.
Won me the last 8 matches out of 10 and propelled me back into Plat 2 after I dropped out of it experimenting with different builds.

Hey guys, thanks for all the suggestions.
I tried going the Chrono runes and amulets with more damage.
Also tried a very nice wells-build shared to me by the current season’s top Necro in EU!
Unfortunately I’m not as skilled as he is and am still stuck around high Plat 1 and low Plat 2 with his build.

In the end I settled for a build that is a mix of everyone’s suggestion lol…

Not sure what game mode you’re interested in, but if things remain the way they are, I would take Demonic Lore for solo roaming in WvW.

Gives more burning reapplication options with Fear > Torment > Burn for the Scourge, just like how I used Blind > (Fear)Chill > Bleed build for my Reaper in the same game mode for more Bleed reapplication.
Reaper seems to be able to reapply bleeds more often than Scourge can with burns though given the current sigils/runes/traits/skills.

I count for Reaper Blind > (Fear)Chill > Bleed in a possible build (there are other options):

• Main traits that make up the reapplication chain
• Chilling darkness: Blinding a target will also apply chill. (3 Sec CD)
• Deathly Chill: Applies 3 stack bleeding whenever chill is applied (No CD)
• Shivers of Dread: Whenever you inflict fear, you also chill. (No CD)

Reapplication abilities in a possible build:

• Sigil of Ice x 2: Chill
• Sigil of Hydromancy: Chill
• Sigil of Mischief: Blind
• Rune of Grenth: Chill x 2
• Dagger 4 Blind
• Staff 3 Chilled
• Staff 5 Fear
• Shroud 2 dash Blind
• Shroud 2 Leap finisher on Shroud 5’s Ice field for Frost Aura Chill
• Shroud 3 Fear
• Shroud 5 Fear
• Shroud 4 Whirl finisher on Shroud 5’s Ice field Chill
• Corrupt Fury boon to Blind
• Corrupt Resistance to Chilled
• And your Utility and Elite skills depending on what you take can apply chill/blind/fear too.
• And not counting other direct bleed application

I count Fear > Torment > Burn for the Scourge in a possible build (there are other options):

• Main traits that make up the reapplication chain
• Demonic Lore: Torment you inflict deals increased damage and causes your foes to burn. (3 Sec CD)
• Terrifying Descent: When you fear a foe inflict torment. (no CD but capped by Demonic Lore’s CD)

Reapplication abilities in a possible build:

• Sigil of Torment x 2: Torment
• Rune of Tormenting: Torment
• Staff 5 Fear
• Torch 4 Torment
• Torch 5 Torment
• Scepter 3 Torment
• Shroud 4 Fear
• Shroud 5 Torment
• Corrupt Stability to Fear
• There are no boons that corrupt into Torment unless using Punishment skills. We got something Unique!
• And your Utility and Elite skills depending on what you take can apply Fear/Torment but depends on having boons to corrupt into Torment
• And not counting other direct burn application

santso.9201:

Why would i want to cleanse those condis tho? I could just staff4/plague signet/ “suffer!” /dagger 4 those condis back to opponents(especially chill)? I do agree that new sos has it advantages, but overall old trait had more uses in certain builds and the fact that soulreaping is now useless traitline.

I guess Necros are given more condi cleansing options that are not dependent on the opponent’s actions. As it stands, condi transfer can be negated by the opponent and isn’t always useful.

Like you though, I love the 7 seconds shroud a lot more which allowed for more flexibility when facing different opponents.
I mentioned a lot more on what I felt we lost on the first page so I won’t repeat myself…
This is only for solo roaming in WvW though.

I use a staff for solo roaming, but staff marks trait wasn’t that important.

• The staff marks trait LF regen not really important because I usually start fights with high LF and it is usually more than sufficient because I seldom camp shroud.
• The unblockable marks does help though against block heavy opponents but it wasn’t something I would give up my 7 seconds shroud for which is more useful in general against the varied opponents I may come up against

• I never used old SOS in PvP because I use a staff and Staff Marks trait > anything else where LF starts at zero and LF building is essential.
• I never used old SOS in Zerg/blob fights in WvW because I use a staff and Staff Marks trait > anything else where blocks are everywhere and I just don’t want my marks to miss tagging some nice bags.
• I used old SOS in open world PvE because the Reaper shroud dash flashing was a nice little mobility thing…but it was more like a QOL to me than anything game breaking…

Thanks for all the candid replies lol…I don’t think my build is…that bad…
Although admittedly its only my 2nd PvP season since the seasons format started, so I guess I wouldn’t know better, but I got into Plat 2 with the tank build =/

Rank 169 now…

Edit: I thought I would just add that I decided on the tank build because I don’t really know how to rotate, kite well, when to leave the point, when to stay, etc. I’m a total noob in this area, and my reactions are usually slow, so I figured I would just stay on point and survive as long as possible =/

Hey guys.
1 week into the new PvP season, got myself into top 250 with this build.
Just want to share and see if there is any way to refine it.
I seldom PvP so I’m not sure if there are better sigils or runes that I could use.
Still experimenting with the sigils and would love any advise.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBHhZ6kjGo2GsmGwnGgeTssMYTzgAwLgaIcESVxxwb4OE-TpxHQB+7IAYsyAK7QAEwHAAAOBAnY/BA

kiritsugu emeya.3962:

Erzian.5218:

I am confident you could have beaten all your opponents on core ranger as well. Soulbeast certainly is more fun than core ranger though, because using gs and maul (buffing itself) is worth using over sword auto attacks in terms of dps.

yes i could have beaten all of these guys on core and more easier on druid, but soulbeast is fun with its crits and its style. at the start anet made a ranger, with hot they gave us druid for more survivability and support and with pof anet gives us an unfinished product which is the soulbeast as a POWER SPEC IM PRETTY SURE they know that it has alot of bugs that need to be fixed ( they even said in the guildchat that tech wise it was one of the complicated specs to develop) , there is a separate team working on each spec, this is not the final form ( they got 1 month to discuss the community problems with the soulbeast and listen to us through forums) i at least hope that they help soulbeast grow in each aspect in the game. for example in wvw they can buff the stances to make it a good zerger that can support its allies and itself, in pvp they *should redo some traits to help it with the survivability and I personally want this ( to be able to change pets while in beastmode) and buff/fix them as well
all we need to do is give them our feedback and how can they improve it..

You made Soulbeast’s style look so attractive in your video.
A friend once told me Tarcis was the Meta for warriors in PvP.
Whatever he played became the meta.
And to me your video gave me the same vibes.
I almost instant changed camp from Scourge to Soulbeast.
The only thing holding me back is the longbow used in your video as I have a personal dislike for longbow in general.

I wonder if other weapons would be viable as a roamer with GS instead of LB?

Firebrand roaming video here from a good player in EU.
Stacks burns even faster and harder than a Scourge.
New burning Mantra and F1 tome skills are mainly AOE burning multi-target. Weapon’s auto does burn on final hit.

The only thing not going that well for them is that they lack covering condi compared to Scourge. They could possibly build for it though with sigils and such.

Also, look at this Soulbeast video from a good ranger in NA. Such fluidity, such movement. Totally different from the slow plodding Scourge lol. I’m sold to try Soulbeast. That damage is insane. I wonder if Scourge barriers can even help us survive long enough to get close to this monster, trade damage with his merged evade mode, and then survive his double GS maul =/

Love your song choice as always.
Wondering what your thoughts are on the viability of Reaper after we get access to Scourge.
Would you make the switch to Scourge? Will Reapers still be viable in your group comp?

Wow that’s some creative use right there. Turtle mode!

Zero Solstice.9754:

EremiteAngel.9765:

Zero Solstice.9754:

EremiteAngel.9765:

Hope you don’t take offense Zero.

I just want to expand more that putting a cast time on the shade skills is going to kill the scourge unless we are given decent access to stability.
This is probably one of the worst things they can do to a scourge.
I can’t imagine life on a scourge with almost zero access to stability and having cast times on his shade skills. Imagine getting stun locked and being able to do nothing.

What I will suggest is to reduce the effects done by the sand shades. Maybe by half? So whatever the scourge does around him, the shades will be half as effective.
This opens up the possibility of buffing sand savant more too. Make the trait give the shade the full effects as opposed to half if untraited.

No offense whatsoever, I love a good discussion. Putting cast times on the Shade abilities isn’t something I would want either, but it’s worth noting it as a possible change that would be made to increase counterplay from others, or at least to reduce some of the complaints of “He spammed everything all at once and now I’m dead”. In my own personal spitballing with friends of ways to fix some of the cancer-bomb that can occur, I had thought of perhaps cutting the Torment application from 2 stacks down to 1 in PvP game modes, but I still think that the biggest offender to the Condi bomb is that Dhuumfire is legitimately overtuned in tandem with Scourge.

The problem with your Sand Savant concept is that it doesn’t actually fix the problem, since many people already take Sand Savant in condition builds just for the larger radius and easier shade management; It simply makes the trait mandatory for most people to get maximum functionality.

I feel the other 2 GM traits are still useful in their own area and we won’t always feel forced to take Sand Savant in its mode I suggested above.

If the player is mostly fighting on point, then perhaps Sand Savant is more desirable, giving full effects and larger radius.
If the player is not fighting on point, but against mobile opponents, then Demonic Lore might be better.
If the player is in an environment where boons are desirable, then feed from corruption is desirable.

I see all 3 GM traits still pick worthy and desirable in depending on the gamemodes and playstyles even if we halved the effects on untraited shades and give full effects to traited Sand Savant.

I would agree that Feed From Corruption can stand on its own due to its nature of feeding different archetypes of builds, but I don’t really feel the same for Sand Savant versus Demonic Lore. Why take Demonic Lore, which reads “Your Torment deals 33% more damage”, when you can take Sand Savant which reads “You apply double the Torment”, especially considering how it makes bombing multiple opponents easier and enemy kiting more difficult. You can make the argument that if you’re pretty heavily invested in Condition Duration then the additional Burning probably means Demonic Lore outdamages the straight Torment from Sand Savant, but even then you’re still probably talking about a sidegrade of Damage vs. Utility more than a defining playstyle upgrade. Support Builds already want Sand Savant as it is because it makes it way easier to manage being in AoE range of maximum teammates, so they wouldn’t bat an eye at Sand Savant also simply making their Shade abilities better.

My argument for demonic lore actually stems from fighting mobile range kiters like deadeyes and Druids. Over the weekend, I tried both with sand savant and without.
The increase in radius was barely effective on these classes if they kited well. You won’t even come close to them, let alone drop any shades on them, sand savant or not. It was more important to take demonic lore which synergizes well with terrifying descent for more burst damage that is not dependent on your shades landing. Meaning take demonic lore plus terrifying descent builds for fights where our shades are easily made useless by the opponent.

You can see my video here. 2nd fight against the deadeye. He kited me so hard I only had 2 real chance to drop a shade on him. One was on his shadow step return circle and the other was when I stun locked him at the end. Both would not have needed the radius from sand savant to work. In the end I bursted him without the shade.

Edit: I did burst him with the shade at the end when I stun locked him lol. Point remains that the radius wasn’t that important for such fights though.
Sand savant definitely still has its uses. But not so much for solo roaming I feel.

Zero Solstice.9754:

EremiteAngel.9765:

Maxzero.4032:

Zero Solstice.9754:

EremiteAngel.9765:

Hope you don’t take offense Zero.

I just want to expand more that putting a cast time on the shade skills is going to kill the scourge unless we are given decent access to stability.
This is probably one of the worst things they can do to a scourge.
I can’t imagine life on a scourge with almost zero access to stability and having cast times on his shade skills. Imagine getting stun locked and being able to do nothing.

What I will suggest is to reduce the effects done by the sand shades. Maybe by half? So whatever the scourge does around him, the shades will be half as effective.
This opens up the possibility of buffing sand savant more too. Make the trait give the shade the full effects as opposed to half if untraited.

No offense whatsoever, I love a good discussion. Putting cast times on the Shade abilities isn’t something I would want either, but it’s worth noting it as a possible change that would be made to increase counterplay from others, or at least to reduce some of the complaints of “He spammed everything all at once and now I’m dead”. In my own personal spitballing with friends of ways to fix some of the cancer-bomb that can occur, I had thought of perhaps cutting the Torment application from 2 stacks down to 1 in PvP game modes, but I still think that the biggest offender to the Condi bomb is that Dhuumfire is legitimately overtuned in tandem with Scourge.

The problem with your Sand Savant concept is that it doesn’t actually fix the problem, since many people already take Sand Savant in condition builds just for the larger radius and easier shade management; It simply makes the trait mandatory for most people to get maximum functionality.

Dhuumfire is fine it only procs once per F2-4 skill regardless of how many Shades you have on the target. If you blow 2-4 you will generate a grand total of 3 Burning stacks due to Dhuumfire.

What stacks the uber conditions is F5 proccing F1 every tick. Is 7 burning stacks over 7 seconds a bomb? What may be happening is that the F5 proccing F1 is somehow messing with how F1 is proccing Dhummfire letting you get multiple Dhuumfire procs per tick of F5.

I think people are not used to watching out for burn stacks when fighting a Scourge.
Burn Guards and Burn Engis can instant down opponents with burn bursts too if the opponent isn’t wary and looking out for it.
It is a high damage condi that requires awareness and quick clearing.

This is reasonable, given that a very important variable in all of this discussion of power level is the “L2P” issue, although it is also important to take notice of potential of reapplication: In the case of Burn Guardian and Condi Engi, their major burst is on roughly a 16 and 12 second cooldown, respectively, with minimal pressure in between. Scourge is able to reapply using abilities that are on 4, 6.5, 12, and 16 second cooldowns, making uptime a larger issue for Scourge than it is for the other two. Combine that with the fact that our bomb also applies Torment and Cripple in large quantities, among other utilities and conditions, and the difference in Pressure vs. Downtime sways pretty heavily in our favor.

I agree burn engi is more a gimmick build. You see it coming, clear early and they are not deadly.

I disagree that burn guard cannot match scourge in terms of burn reapplication. If you search for kiritsugu emeya on YouTube, he has a few burn guard videos and the burn is pressure is consistent and high.

Even for group fights, burn Guards can dish out a fair bit of burns with blocks and one consecration utility alone.

It is more about learning and knowing how all 3 classes stack burns that will help you against them.

I wrote more here on this if you are interested.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Scourge-WvW-Solo-Roaming-thoughts/first#post6715558

Maxzero.4032:

Zero Solstice.9754:

EremiteAngel.9765:

Hope you don’t take offense Zero.

I just want to expand more that putting a cast time on the shade skills is going to kill the scourge unless we are given decent access to stability.
This is probably one of the worst things they can do to a scourge.
I can’t imagine life on a scourge with almost zero access to stability and having cast times on his shade skills. Imagine getting stun locked and being able to do nothing.

What I will suggest is to reduce the effects done by the sand shades. Maybe by half? So whatever the scourge does around him, the shades will be half as effective.
This opens up the possibility of buffing sand savant more too. Make the trait give the shade the full effects as opposed to half if untraited.

No offense whatsoever, I love a good discussion. Putting cast times on the Shade abilities isn’t something I would want either, but it’s worth noting it as a possible change that would be made to increase counterplay from others, or at least to reduce some of the complaints of “He spammed everything all at once and now I’m dead”. In my own personal spitballing with friends of ways to fix some of the cancer-bomb that can occur, I had thought of perhaps cutting the Torment application from 2 stacks down to 1 in PvP game modes, but I still think that the biggest offender to the Condi bomb is that Dhuumfire is legitimately overtuned in tandem with Scourge.

The problem with your Sand Savant concept is that it doesn’t actually fix the problem, since many people already take Sand Savant in condition builds just for the larger radius and easier shade management; It simply makes the trait mandatory for most people to get maximum functionality.

Dhuumfire is fine it only procs once per F2-4 skill regardless of how many Shades you have on the target. If you blow 2-4 you will generate a grand total of 3 Burning stacks due to Dhuumfire.

What stacks the uber conditions is F5 proccing F1 every tick. Is 7 burning stacks over 7 seconds a bomb? What may be happening is that the F5 proccing F1 is somehow messing with how F1 is proccing Dhummfire letting you get multiple Dhuumfire procs per tick of F5.

I think people are not used to watching out for burn stacks when fighting a Scourge.
Burn Guards and Burn Engis can instant down opponents with burn bursts too if the opponent isn’t wary and looking out for it.
It is a high damage condi that requires awareness and quick clearing.

Zero Solstice.9754:

EremiteAngel.9765:

Hope you don’t take offense Zero.

I just want to expand more that putting a cast time on the shade skills is going to kill the scourge unless we are given decent access to stability.
This is probably one of the worst things they can do to a scourge.
I can’t imagine life on a scourge with almost zero access to stability and having cast times on his shade skills. Imagine getting stun locked and being able to do nothing.

What I will suggest is to reduce the effects done by the sand shades. Maybe by half? So whatever the scourge does around him, the shades will be half as effective.
This opens up the possibility of buffing sand savant more too. Make the trait give the shade the full effects as opposed to half if untraited.

No offense whatsoever, I love a good discussion. Putting cast times on the Shade abilities isn’t something I would want either, but it’s worth noting it as a possible change that would be made to increase counterplay from others, or at least to reduce some of the complaints of “He spammed everything all at once and now I’m dead”. In my own personal spitballing with friends of ways to fix some of the cancer-bomb that can occur, I had thought of perhaps cutting the Torment application from 2 stacks down to 1 in PvP game modes, but I still think that the biggest offender to the Condi bomb is that Dhuumfire is legitimately overtuned in tandem with Scourge.

The problem with your Sand Savant concept is that it doesn’t actually fix the problem, since many people already take Sand Savant in condition builds just for the larger radius and easier shade management; It simply makes the trait mandatory for most people to get maximum functionality.

I feel the other 2 GM traits are still useful in their own area and we won’t always feel forced to take Sand Savant in its mode I suggested above.

If the player is mostly fighting on point, then perhaps Sand Savant is more desirable, giving full effects and larger radius.
If the player is not fighting on point, but against mobile opponents, then Demonic Lore might be better.
If the player is in an environment where boons are desirable, then feed from corruption is desirable.

I see all 3 GM traits still pick worthy and desirable in depending on the gamemodes and playstyles even if we halved the effects on untraited shades and give full effects to traited Sand Savant.

Hope you don’t take offense Zero.

I just want to expand more that putting a cast time on the shade skills is going to kill the scourge unless we are given decent access to stability.
This is probably one of the worst things they can do to a scourge.
I can’t imagine life on a scourge with almost zero access to stability and having cast times on his shade skills. Imagine getting stun locked and being able to do nothing.

What I will suggest is to reduce the effects done by the sand shades. Maybe by half? So whatever the scourge does around him, the shades will be half as effective.
This opens up the possibility of buffing sand savant more too. Make the trait give the shade the full effects as opposed to half if untraited.

Zero Solstice.9754:

Tiresias.6473:

Snip!

No worries at all, I love healthy discussion; let’s get to it:

1. My opinion on Nefarious Favor is largely that because of a) how swingy it can be b) how much some people are complaining about it and c) the way it interacts with other items in the Necromancer line-up, I think ANet will probably just end up nerfing it as they usually do. If I could have it my way, I’d explicitly modify it in a way that doesn’t break it in half when combined with Path of Corruption, perhaps by making it so that PoC causes the skill to have a longer CD, or perhaps by giving Nefarious Favor a short cast time. It’s possible most of the shade skills could see a 0.25s cast time implemented just to mitigate the complaints of how people are just dying to kitten bomb from a Scourge’s faceroll when they tried going into melee range (more of a L2P issue than anything else, but the concept for frustration is there).

2. I agree

3. Oh definitely; I approach most of these videos without a script as it makes it a bit more genuine, but it also has the drawback of sometimes not making perfect sense, or getting a bit lost in a point. The major difference I would say between me and others though is that I went in expecting the skills to be good, and I found them generally great, whereas most others probably went in expecting them to be bad/subpar and found them to be decent.

4. I can agree, it’s mostly just a matter of uptime vs. effect.

5. This is reasonable though, because the same way that multiple opponents make it harder for you to survive, multiple teammates help shore up your weaknesses, and you theirs. Two Scourges or a Scourge and a Firebrand/Tempest together is bonkers. It’s also worth noting that Nefarious Favor alone not being enough entices you into the other traits like Abrasive Grit, which I found to be very powerful in tandem.

8. My issue with Dagger is that you have to be in melee range to use it, which isn’t always optimal. Otherwise I agree and made that point as well: If a Necro is capable of upkeeping Life Force more or less forever, then how does it die?

9. Reasonable.

10. Exactly. I understand the entire Master line explicitly alters the function of placing down Shades, but it could be cool to see something just entirely focused around the Punishment skills be placed here instead.

11. Right right, I get that, but Sand Savant explicitly reads “This greater shade counts as three shades for related traits”, so technically speaking it should cause each of the Master traits to proc three times whenever you place a greater shade. This is where my contention of the English came up; is it a bug? Intended?

12. You have to consider though that a Reaper does it by spamming auto attacks and nothing else. Scourge does it while Converting two conditions into boons, converting two boons into conditions, applying barrier to allies, AoE Fearing, and AoE pulsing Torment and Cripple plus power damage. Would Dhuumfire be anemic if it was only on Manifest? Definitely, but as it is currently it’s pretty cancerous and we need to either tone it down somehow, or let it sit around for a while to see if it’s mostly just a player-skill issue or if it truly is just too much consistent damage.

13. That’s because condition-based builds are not the home for Feed From Corruption, at least not ones where all you care about is the damage.

14. Ding.

15. Agree, although even in situations where you get CC’d in a circle, sometimes you still kill people for free just by mashing F2-5 when your tail is in melee range, which is a sweet countermeasure for the Necromancer but also stems back to the complaints brought up in point #1.

16. <3

I strongly disagree with your first point on putting a Cast time on any of the shade skills. That we can instant cast our shade skills makes up for the total lack of stability on a scourge. It allows us to defend or trade damage even when chain stunned or daze locked. Putting cast times on it makes not having decent access to stability a terrible blow.

I would like for dagger main-hand to have some condi damage added to work for condi builds too.
I like the dagger skins…and like the idea of dagger + torch…

The solo roaming scene has diminished quite a fair bit during off NA prime hours imo.
Running around for a few hours during off prime hours, you more or less meet the same few opponents.

Many are running around with at least 1 other partner.
I run with a friend too when he is in the mood for roaming (he’s more keen on PvP).

That said, I wonder…

What are the things that attract you to solo roam?
What are the things that attract you to duo/group roam?

Which do you find more attractive?

Reflecting more on the past demo weekend:

Scourge Offense

I would say that Scourge is very much similar to Burn guards and Burn engineers in that the burns can stack hard and fast and if you’re not wary, you can go down very quickly.

Just like Burn guards and Burn engineers, knowing how a Scourge stacks most of his burns goes a long way in defeating one.

The Scourge depends greatly on stacking burns mostly via the Shades and, less so, the radius around the Scourge himself (depends on F5, corrupting stab to fear and a couple punishment utilities). Foes can play to counter that and it would greatly limit the Scourge’s damage potential.

Just like how we know not to attack a Burn guard when he is blocking to prevent the burn stacks from overwhelming us, or that when we see an engineer with the incendiary icon, we should be dodging his subsequent burn attacks because he probably plans to stack burns on you + Moa.

Based on the above observation, I would say that the Scourge isn’t OP for 1 vs 1 roaming fights in WvW where there are no real points to fight on and many enemies and builds can kite Scourge hard. I think the ability to burn burst opponents is essential for a Scourge as it is extremely difficult to catch a kiting foe, and when you do, you only have that one chance to burn him down. A strong burn burst is needed or we would be just bags to range kiting foes. And even then, if the range kiting foe has decent condi clear, we would still struggle.

Scourge Defense

What struck me the most was the usefulness of F2 condi-cleanse + traited boon corrupt and F3 barrier.
I thought more about it and realized this was the exact build and playstyle I and many others used on Reaper back before the nerf to SoS when they took away our 30% shroud CD reduction.

• Remember the 7 Second Reaper Shroud cooldown? It allowed us to ‘flash’ shroud as a defensive option. This is now the same function as the 6 seconds F3 Scourge barrier.
• Remember the 6 Second Reaper Shroud 2 dash that corrupted boons traited? This is now the same function as the 4 seconds F2 Scourge skill. And I always dreamed of pairing shrouded removal with this Reaper Shroud flashing build. Now it is given to us on the Scourge. And much better.

Both similar cooldowns, even better on Scourge in fact.
This is the exact CD timing and play-style that most of us ‘Shroud Flashers’ loved.

No wonder I felt totally at home with the Scourge.

Did a short video on some fights over the POF Demo Weekend on Scourge in WvW.
First half was with Trailblazers.
Second half was with Celestial.

Just some trial runs and testing of rotations and builds.

I roamed for about half a day on Scourge alone in WvW.
Main aim was to engage random classes in 1 vs 1 impromptu encounters.

• On a side note, Scourge seems to go down a lot faster in WvW when outnumbered or focused compared to Reaper. If I get to work the Sand Swell into my build, perhaps it wouldn’t be that bad when outnumbered.

My thoughts for WvW solo roaming only:

Stats I tried

• Marauders was too squishy and doesn’t synergize well with Scourge traits, skills and torch
• Celestial was decent against classes that doesn’t have good access to constant regen. I tried a Axe/Dagger + Dagger/Torch build. Killed a couple of daredevils and deadeyes. Failed badly against spellbreakers. Not enough damage output to out-pressure their regen.
• Trailblazers was decent all round against most classes I fought. Standard Staff + Scepter/Torch. From deadeyes to spellbreakers to first gen elites like Chronos and Daredevils. I was really happy it was strong enough to also down decent D/P Staff Daredevils even in my clumsy button smashing stage.

• Deadeyes, despite their 1500 range, was not as terrible as initially feared. I could get in range most of the fights even on a Scourge that had zero gap closers (was fighting without Sand Swell that is currently disabled). Won a few and lost to a few, but with more practice, it is a winnable fight I feel. Really glad as they were the class that I feared most when the 2nd Gen elites were revealed.

• General Opening Rotation against most melee classes involved F1 cast Sand Shade on self, F3 for barrier > F2 if enemy comes in with boons or condi.
• General Opening Rotation against most range classes involved F3 for barrier > get in range > staff marks > F1 + F2 or F4 on enemy

• Scourge has very decent condi management. We are no longer reliant on transferring the condi which good enemies used to negate. We can clear it using F2 or traited barrier. I won against a few condi Chrono Phantasms with Scourge when I would struggle in the past with Reaper. Consume conditions is no longer a must.
• Scourge has very decent boon removal, especially against melee classes. Traited F2 is immense. 2 boon removal on 4 sec CD. Works against range foes too. You need to predict movement and position your shade well, then chain F1 + F2 to remove boon and do some burning.
• Scourge struggles more against Range classes but doesn’t feel un-winnable. Deadeyes, Druids etc., feels like we can give them a good fight with proper use and placement of the Sand Shades.
• More practice needed to manage the F1-F5 skills better as the traited low CD gives Scourge a lot more defensive/offensive options.

Skills, traits, weapons:

• Torch is decent, but I wish Torch 5 was castable without having to face the enemy. Opens up a lot more possibilities that way.
• Nourishing Rot trait gives very nice LF generation and keeps it healthy against most foes.
• I took Sand Flare (healing), Trail of Anguish (stun break), and will take Sand Swell (portal) as well.
• All on very decent CDs with traited Sadistic Searing and gives your F1 a decent burning boost too.
• The Elite skill Ghastly Breech is decent against melee foes, but terribly useless against range kiting foes. I’m unsure if I will use it as a Flesh Golem seems to be a better all-round option for a Scourge.
• I tried Sand Savant and Demonic Lore. I would side with Sand Savant for now as Scourge damage potential seems decent even without Demonic Lore. Sand Savant makes it a lot easier to burst catch foes in the AoE effects.
• I used the standard condi Soul Reaping 2-2-3 and Curses 2-2-1 line.

Overall thoughts

Scourge was actually a lot more fun to play than Reaper. It was definitely harder and requires more APM given that we now have a whole new set of F1-F5 that we can use to interact at all times with our other weapon skills and utilities. But definitely more flexible and interactive. I felt a lot more in control of the Scourge’s defenses and offenses. I really like it.

The lack of gap closer was not as bad as initially feared. Having an AoE 900 Range Shade that is able to do some condi damage and activate our F2-F5 skills goes some way in making up for that. It requires good prediction and placement of the Shades against range kiting foes though and needs practice. I do wish the radius was larger, and the casting range longer. Would make it a lot easier to catch a Range kiting foe in its area of effect. Looking foward to implementing the Sand Swell into my build, which would go a long way against these range foes.

The lack of stability was also not as bad as initially feared. The low CD on our F3 barrier and our ability to trade damage even when stunned (our F2-F5 skills can be casted even when stunned) makes up for it. I even took down a decent D/P Daredevil who was utilizing headshot a few times!

The lack of shroud wasn’t felt at all TBH. The low CD F3 barrier and all the interactive F2-F5 skills really shines. I love F2 the most. It is amazing. Traited 2 boon removal, 2 condi removal. Negates blind, immobilize etc. almost on demand with its short 4 sec CD, and activates your Sand Shade to strike its foe too with some nice traited burning.

I’m impressed and excited for the new out-of-shroud interactions with the F1-F5 skills for solo-roaming in WvW. It feels like I can make do without shroud after all.

Did a video showing here:

I tried Sand Swell with Wurm and Spectral walk.
You can actually do an ultra far range Sand Swell portal by:

Precast Wurm > Move forward about 1200 range > Cast Spectral Walk > Run forward until the Return timer is almost up > Cast Sand Swell > Immediately Return with Spectral walk first then Wurm > The portal will appear at your feet when the Sand Swell cast ends, meaning it appears back at the Wurm location, not at the initial targeted location.

Gave me a portal range of about…2400+ range?

What will this be useful for though…I’m not sure…

Seems like we can use it multiple times, i ported forward, back, and then forward again.

But it doesn’t seem to last 20 seconds as the duration seems to imply.

It lasted only about…6 seconds…regardless of whether I ported back or not…

How do you see the battlefield changing in WvW with the introduction of the POF Elites?
Pirateship meta?
Melee ball boonshare meta?
What is going to be the new meta?

HYPE
Scourge – Changing the face of War

• Sand Swell

This is going to be an immense tactical change for Zerg vs Zerg engagements.
No more are we going to get commanders dancing around in circles. Scourge’s Sand Swell is going to function like an instant portal bomb with safety barriers. Can be used defensively as well, helping zergs to disengage faster in groups.

• Shades

More battle field control? More boon corruption? Great!
I also like that it gives even more AOE potential to the necromancer. Staff marks, Wells, and Shades? Right up my alley! More AOE = More enemies tagged = more bags!

Azzara Nectum.1734:

Necro’s aren’t dark and edgy… Look at mine, just chilling in the setting sun, smiling and all..

Very nice smile lol

http://imgur.com/a/Fr3Vh
http://imgur.com/a/pSlVR
http://imgur.com/a/xWJXi

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/6tzpz4/scourge_tooltips_for_all_traits_utilities/

It’s out on Reddit. Have a clearer preview and share your thoughts!

This skill seems rather similar to our current new Spectral Grasp in the sense that it is an AOE radius projectile? skill.
Feels rather underwhelming though and doesn’t really give us anything new.
I dislike that there seems to be so little variety in the offensive area for our new utilities.
I was hoping for a condi-transfer utility but…nope.

Talking about Spectral Grasp though, anyone can confirm it pulls invisible targets too?
I was fighting a mesmer the other day and thought I grabbed his clone with my main targeted grasp, but I think he got grabbed too while invis and appeared pulled beside me.

Can’t confirm though as it was in the heat of battle and I thought I saw it work that way, pulling him from invis even though my targeting was on his clone, and not him.

I think what most of us are experiencing, myself included, is that we are going through a period where our rotations for the past 2 years with the 7sec shroud are all thrown out of the window.

Defensive rotation, offensive rotation, movement rotation, all disrupted.
Its only natural to feel extremely weakened and lost I guess…after all it has been an amazing trait for Reaper roamers for the past 2 years…

I’m guessing Reaper roamers are already in the minority in WvW, and even fewer used the old SoS for that 7 sec shroud. Too few to matter anyway. I doubt we will get that 7 sec shroud back.

I’m really hoping anet sees Vitali’s suggestion and replace the Reaper’s Relentless Pursuit trait with the old SoS…If Scourge doesn’t need it, let Reapers have it in the Reaper line…but…sigh…

Can Reaper roam without the 7 sec shroud? Probably yes. Major change in play-style would be required though. A whole new period of adaptation would have to take place.

I tried for a couple of days as a Power Reaper, won maybe 30% of my fights against decent opponents. The Axe 2 burst still takes many by surprise. It is okay…playable…but not as smooth as before with the old SoS =(

I’m not up for it, not up to re-adapt my play-style. Not till I get to give Scourge sufficient play time I guess. And then decide from there if I prefer Reaper or Scourge as my main roamer.

Vitali.5039:

If the change was for scourge, fearing how the mighty e-spec could have gained “incredible powers” with Desert Shroud’s CD cut they should have just swapped Relentless Pursuit with Speed of Shadows and buffed Relentless Pursuit to remove (on shroud’s activation) and cut duration of movement imparing conditions.

I like this suggestion a lot. Relentless Pursuit is now very similar in purpose to the new SoS.
Changing it to shroud CD reduction + MS would be nice…gives Reaper a lot more synergy…

Give your predictions, best POF elite for:

• Solo Roaming
• Duo Roaming
• 3-5 man Roaming

Svarty.8019:

mulzi.8273:

Svarty.8019:

Serenity.6135:

Its not about camping, its about proper rotations. The nerf on vital persistence ruined the synergy with a lot of traits therefore delivering a big hit on a lot of builds. VP is also necessary to keep up with the current meta.

The Speed of Shadows nerf-to-end-all-nerfs was delivered quietly at the end of the Necro section.

This is what it used to do:

Increases movement speed while in shroud. Reduces recharge on shroud.

Miscellaneous effect.png Movement speed increase: 25%
Count Recharge.png Recharge Reduced: 30%

WHAT A MESS! Where’s the petition? Fire the balance team!

This nerf was worse than the VP nerf imho. Or rather, the nerf to SoS WITH the nerf to VP is just ridiculus. Not only do we have less shroud time, we lose the ability to access it more often.

The synergy with SoS and the other skills is what really hurts my playstyle.

I can no longer do small scale fights, so I’m back to standing on walls in WvW.

I’m standing on walls too or in the middle of my zergs now. The loss of the 7 sec shroud synergy hurts really bad. Unless you have good team support like vT guild, it is terrible running a non old SoS build for roaming.

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Strider Pj.2193:

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

If you want free condi necro bags, roll Daredevil.

Or Druid…,

100% can confirm. Mained one before my thief

My videos here disagree.

reaper Vs daredevil

reaper vs Druid lb staff

reaper vs Druid lb x

I used the 7sec recharge heavily on most of my favored WvW roaming Reaper builds for both power and condi…
essentially because…

• a smaller window means opponents will need to time their bursts better,
• a smaller window means I will be able to spread out my non-shroud defenses better across each window to manage the vulnerability,
• a smaller window means more use out of traits that trigger on entering/leaving shroud
• a smaller window means more flexibility over the usage and rotation of shroud when engaging your opponent
• a smaller window means more synergy with shroud 2 which has been my favorite Reaper skill

My favorite experience as a Reaper was to catch up to LB/Staff Rangers in WvW open field each and every time they tried to knock me back.
The synergy of the old SoS with Reaper shroud 2, and FiTG really won it for me.
It was great that Reaper shroud 2 could be magnified via traits to become incredibly deadly on a 6 second cooldown.
7 second stunbreak, gap closer, damage dealer, blind, boon corrupt, chill, bleed all rolled into one when built right…it was glorious.
So much synergy. So much flexibility. So much fun.
It was great while it lasted.

The new SoS isn’t too bad. It’s pretty good actually, helping us to negate one of the deadliest control condition a reaper can face – immobilize. Very helpful against certain foes.
I believe Reapers can still find builds to counter foes and survive without the 7 second window now. After all, many do not utilize SoS before the change and are also doing well.

To me at least…the fluidity and synergy that the old SoS gave to Reapers feels…lost

I’m not thinking so much into new builds for roaming now though…
With Scourge on the horizon and possibly more balance patches across board for entire classes/elites, I think I will just take a break from roaming, hop on my zergling and go run around with my commander.

See you Scourges in Elona!

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

EremiteAngel.9765:

Anyone tested if spiteful renewal works on our healing utility too?
Like signet of the locust.

Why would it? “When using a healing skill” has always, without exception, referred only to using the dedicated heal slot #6 on the skill bar.

Um well… I asked as there is a 5 sec CD on the trait’s tooltip which would be odd if it interacted only with our 6th slot healing skill.

I did think perhaps it triggers for the lesser heal skills from traits like lesser well of blood and lesser vamp signet. Which also got me wondering if other skills like signet of locust which has a healing tooltip works to trigger it too. Or maybe even our Dagger 2 life siphon which has a healing tooltip too and might be counted as a healing skill.

Or perhaps I am just over thinking things and the 5 sec CD in the trait has no reason to be there =/

Shared this on reddit but sharing here too. Just super elated!

http://imgur.com/a/0LVNj

As a poor WvW player, had to break my bank’s reserves for this… but totally worth it!

Also if anyone’s interested, I made a thread here on the timing needed for a full set of WvW Legendary Armor.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Legendary-WvW-Armor-crafting-time/first#post6680472

Another 24 weeks to go for the other parts for my full set…Opting for the longer method (Exotic T2 Armor > Mistforge Ascended T3 Armor > Legendary Armor) because WvW player has no gold =/

For other poor fellow WvW players like me, just a shoutout that one of the Gift components, the Gift of Prosperity costs a bomb to make…so it might be wise to choose the longer route like I did if you don’t intend to leave WvW and go farm in PvE Fractals (Fractals are fun though and rewarding! Highly recommended).

Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365:

I have to say gliding in WvW works so well. Before the patch I was very skeptical but after playing around with it I can only see good things with it.
WvW got so much mroe exciting, but not jsut that. I got way more fluid. Moving in and out of keeps, jumping off walls, jumping off cliffs or jumping into towers.

I’m very satisfied with how it turned out.

McKenna and her team rocks!!

Agreed. Makes defending and scouting a lot smoother. Response times are now kinda faster too. As soon as the ‘exploits’ of gliding into structures get eliminated, I would love to see gliding stay as a feature. And the gradual introduction of mounts too in future.

Flumek.9043:

Eremite,
i thought you knew this, maybe you forgot or read too much tooltips.

S.Armor is NOT scalable.
It gets WORSE with more enemies, it has a 1s ICD.

Rise of reaper was Anets answer to “scallable defense”. And even that scales in duration and not burst intesity.

ah…my bad…
I was speaking from my limited experience in that spectral armor + shroud seems to keep me alive much longer against multiple foes.
Another of my spectral armor works on condi ticks noobness =s

ceejay.2517:

Flumek.9043:

flesh worm and spectral walk are ancient relics, theyre trash now.

worm = 1200 distance + criple/chill
…. in past that meant something, now even guards can gap close and everybody has cleanses to beat reaper level chills, base is just freekill

specral walk = 0 distance + swiftness + potential port over ledge or cca 900 distance (IF YOU CAN MOVE)
…again like above, everything is so powercreeped that pure kiting with distance doesnt exist anymore. also walk desperately needs superspeed atm to not move 0 distance and then port back

Oh i don’t disagree that these skills are weak and need buffs, especially in comparison to other classes. My point is mainly that our survivaibilty extends beyond shroud, people thinking we are a one trick pony has been a problem in the player base for a while IMO.

I use core Vanilla Power Necro in PvP and would agree that shroud isn’t the only thing that keeps a kiting range necro alive.
Scourge would play in a similar way to the core Vanilla Range Necro in that they do their stuff from range and kite to survive, as you have mentioned.

The seeming lack of interaction between current skills/traits and barriers (the new defensive mechanism) is a little worrying though. For example, spectral armor synergizes well with shroud currently and gives us buffer moments to surive focus fire in that the more people hitting us, the more shroud we get. It is our (only?) viable defense against scaling numbers of attacking players.
Will there be similar interactions with Scourge’s Sand Shroud Barrier defense? If the answer is no, I’m hoping the new portal goes some way to addressing that by giving us even more and better kiting options.

Oslaf Beinir.5842:

Yeah…rip speed of shadows
only reason i could surprise good players on power reaper

now this makes foot in the grave look even worse in consequence

oh and thanks for removing my movement speed increase that cannot be stripped or corrupted and replacing it with crappy swiftness that gets stolen removed corrupted and then leaving me slower than a camel
ty anet

Also as someone posted on reddit, we lost the synergy between the 6 sec Reaper Shroud 2 dash and the 7 Second Shroud CD that Speed of Shadows gave us previously.
RIP dashing around on Reaper which gave us some form of mobility previously.

Now you can’t flash shroud to use the Shroud 2 dash, because the Shroud cooldown is 10 seconds, effectively making your Dash skill CD reduction irrelevant.
The only way to take advantage of the Shroud 2 dash 6 second re-charge is to stay in shroud which just depletes your shroud faster without VP…

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/6sk254/whats_with_the_soul_reaping_nerfs/

Arcaedus.7290:

Tried it. The cast is very obvious/slow. You may be able to make it work in a group, but solo it won’t work very well since you won’t have any large bursts to follow up with (unless you sacrifice some sustain on the utility bar).

My friend used it in combo with scepter immobilize then Stun to control his opponent.
He also used it in conjunction with F1 pull then Stun for more CC uptime.

Like you said, I think it would require some form of control first in order to pull it off since the tell is quite obvious.

Seems like a very strong control utility to have though for 3 stuns over 6 seconds each. Against classes with low stability access, with the proper set-up and combo, a guard could probably eat through their stun-breaks quite quickly now.

A friend tried it out in WvW earlier and crit for 6K+ damage or a semi-glass build.
Traited, it does a 2 second knockdown on a 6 sec cooldown for up to 3 casts.
So…thoughts from Guardian mains if they will take this skill now for WvW/PvP fights and which utility would you replace it with?

Brokensunday.4098:

Zoltreez.6435:

Tiresias.6473:

Could we just… bake in the cooldown reduction from Speed of Shadows and reduced Life Force decay from Vital Persistence to the baseline Shroud?

Please ArenaNet… you’re breaking my heart!

I read this and my hearth break .. the nerf bad hit us like glenn of the walking dead rest in pices my fellow necros

my heart broke too

Anyone tested if spiteful renewal works on our healing utility too?
Like signet of the locust.

I don’t get it.
Why remove the faster CD recharge on Shroud?
Enemies now get 10 whole kitteng seconds to pummel us into the dirt.
7 Seconds was bad enough against good players who knew how to punish you the moment you left shroud.
Now it is 10 WHOLE kitteng seconds.
WTF.

This affects all the other shroud entering/leaving traits too. All nerfed when I can’t utilize them more often.

Why give us faster shroud skills when I can’t enter shroud faster!?
Why give us faster shroud skills when I can’t stay in shroud for long because vital persistence is nerfed?!

Brokensunday.4098:

they should have make it baseline…. with 33-40% reduction time and 2 sec cast reduction…. and rework the whole line

I agree with this.
The speed of shadows need to be reverted too or made baseline along with vital persistence.

• Why do I need faster shroud skills when I can’t get back into shroud faster!?
• We can’t camp in shroud anymore either to utilize the faster shroud skills CD because it drains too fast while taking damage and not having vital persistence!

The whole synergy is just shot to shreds.

And there goes my shroud flashing build.
No more faster shroud CD recharge.
Why would I need faster shroud skills if the shroud CD is not there?
Am I supposed to stay in shroud to utilize the faster shroud skills CD?
But isn’t vital persistence nerfed now so I can’t stay long in shroud?

WTF is this lack of synergy?

Vagrant.8613:

EremiteAngel.9765:

For full set, 6570 tickets not including precursor cost.
365 tickets max per week
= 18 weeks

Precursor cost via Ascended T2 armor = 1310 tickets
365 tickets max per week
= ~ 4 weeks
+ Legendary conversion cost of 18 weeks

• ~ 22 weeks*
  Cost per Grandmaster is roughly 35 gold now.
  20 needed for the full set = 700 gold to get full set 7 weeks faster than the below method.

Precursor cost via Exotic T2 armor to Mistforge Ascended Armor = 1310 tickets + 2620 tickets = 3930 ticktes
365 tickets max per week
= ~ 11 weeks
+ Legendary conversion cost of 18 weeks

• ~ 29 weeks*

Don’t forget about the 1500+ rank requirements for the Mistforged armor

Good point thanks.