Guild Wars 2

Solo.9027:

Do people not know about this site?
http://gw2legendary.com

I just came.

AreUMadBro.6907:

How many Dusks you guys can see at TP? 0. Yes, told ya. Now lets see what price they will make us pay(and yes, whoever is the group doing this, its a group that owns bot accounts)

Proof?

mcarswell.3768:

Esplen.3940:

plasmacutter.2709:

HAHAHAHAHAHA…. the precursors rise much faster than most peoples’ gold income. You can have all the self control on the world and NEVER reach the price of a precursor unless you’re a basement dwelling NEET or abusing the cash shop liberally.

Wrong on so many levels. If you do any of the current gold farms you can easily make 50g a day. Are you saying that Precursors are increasing by 50g a day, because I sure don’t see that.

If by “a day” you mean 24 hours, sure. but since I only play about 3-4 hours/day, I make about 50g/week.

Do you count the ectos and salvages and drops you get as monetary value?

plasmacutter.2709:

HAHAHAHAHAHA…. the precursors rise much faster than most peoples’ gold income. You can have all the self control on the world and NEVER reach the price of a precursor unless you’re a basement dwelling NEET or abusing the cash shop liberally.

Wrong on so many levels. If you do any of the current gold farms you can easily make 50g a day. Are you saying that Precursors are increasing by 50g a day, because I sure don’t see that.

Every map has a different time. I believe an ingame day is 4 hours. Not sure.

Geikamir.6329:

Esplen.3940:

Geikamir.6329:

The game doesn’t NEED anything technically. I’m just claiming that it’s not fair nor fun. Both things of which I should be required to make a good game.

Also, it’s not about working harder. Chance has nothing to do with working harder.

If there was an NPC with a set precursor price your point would be valid.

1. Name a game where the best gear cannot be grinded for as the only method to get it is fun. Now, if you can do that, tell me why you aren’t playing that game.

1. Chance has everything to do with working harder. If you have a 1/10 chance of getting something, are you going to give up after failing once?

1. There is an NPC. He sells Precursors for 10,000g. Why waste your gold when you can buy it on the Trading Post.

1- Any non-MMO. MMO’s do it incorrectly. Which was one of the main selling points of GW2. Fixing the mistakes of the past.

2- Chance has nothing to do with working harder. If you get rewarded the first try and I don’t get it after 10, did you or I work harder?

3- There is not an NPC that sells precursors.

1. Any? I seem to recall Skyrim having a terrible conversion rate. Also, this IS an MMO… therefore it’s comparable to other… MMO’s.
2. Neither of us worked harder, however are you going to stop because I did? That’s where working harder to achieve it comes it. If you give up, that’s your call, however you’re not supposed to give up until you achieve what you want or are done.
3. There is.

Also, I prefer…

Charismatic Harm.9683:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

I didn’t read this thread but I thought i’d at least comment on the very large error in the OP here…

OMG!!! You should!!! There is some comedic GOLD in this thread.

If for nothing else, you’ll find a couple of people that keep repeating the same thing over and over again without any evidence to back up their claims. Also, you’ll find these same people dodging answering specific questions by repeating their claims again.

I’m actually laughing at this point….probably from the pain of beating my head against the wall.

I think I have dain bramage.

I’m too bramn dired for daim tamage. But it’s just circles and circles. They ignore anything that retorts them well and just move onto dodging bushes. Weeeeeeee. I wish I could sidestep like that.

laharl.8435:

First off, you lose 15% from selling your mats. So they are not full value as people are saying here. Second, you will also gain many T6 mats from making clovers, so it is false to give full price to the mat gift estimates.

Another point that applies with me and I’m sure others. Some of us haven’t always sold mats. I have always kept them. I do a lot of crafting and it’s nice to keep them on hand. So those mats don’t necessarily translate to market value for us, because we have never used them as such.

Fact is, for people that play like myself anyway, we don’t have to put as much gold into the other parts of the legendary as we do the precursor.

Last, just to note, I am not a precursor whiner nor have I ever been. It’s not up to me to objectify its value. It is what it is. But for myseslf at least, it the by far the largest gold sink in the equation.

RAW VALUE. RAW. You’re converting it into goods that you’re using for something else, so if you want to see how much you’re “saving” you need to see how much you’d have paid. It’s like saying Cup of Noodle is worth $20+ each because you have to get a license to sell them and a store front. It’s standardized price is $1 ea (which is still a large amount greater than the price of a single Cup of Noodle) because that’s how much you buy it when you’re buying in singles.

Fact: Regardless of whether or not you’re putting straight gold into your legendary, you’re putting in just as much gold as the guy next to you. It’s called assets and net worth.

Lastly: Your wording here is correct, I see no false things to object.

Bartas.4908:

Shouldn’t the precursor be something obtainable via other means then just buying it from some TP leech? Personally I’d rather dump 1000g worth of rares into MF than make some goldseller/TP manipulator rich.

Considering we have no proof that the goldsellers/TP manipulators are doing what they do, you’re benefiting them by using the TP to get all those rares.

Geikamir.6329:

The game doesn’t NEED anything technically. I’m just claiming that it’s not fair nor fun. Both things of which I should be required to make a good game.

Also, it’s not about working harder. Chance has nothing to do with working harder.

If there was an NPC with a set precursor price your point would be valid.

1. Name a game where the best gear cannot be grinded for as the only method to get it is fun. Now, if you can do that, tell me why you aren’t playing that game.

1. Chance has everything to do with working harder. If you have a 1/10 chance of getting something, are you going to give up after failing once?

1. There is an NPC. He sells Precursors for 10,000g. Why waste your gold when you can buy it on the Trading Post.

Essence Snow.3194:

With exception to lodestones/precursor one can actually go out obtain every other component via game play within reason. That said the costs of those components are not exactly comparable due to availability.

Edit ninja while posting

laharl.8435:

laharl.8435:

You can farm most of the materials you are putting prices to. I’m sure most people farm most of the mats as opposed to buying it all. Plus the process of making your clovers will also give you a bunch of T6 mats.

I know at least for myself, the precursor is far more expensive that the combined expense of everything else, mostly because I didn’t buy most of it.

But that sort of argument is the equivalent of saying: Exotic equipment is free because I crafted it with materials I had. You had assets which could liquidate to money and instead turned it into an item which, in it’s own right, has value, as well.

It’s more so about having the alternative/option.

Agreed, however, the cost is still there in terms of value that you had obtained through means other than the standard gold —> item.

If I have 10 Charged Lodestones and Lodestones are currently worth 4g ea, I essentially have 40g. Of course, we are ignoring TP taxes, but in terms of raw item value, that’s what I have. I can subtract 40g from the price of my Gift just the same as if I had 40g and I was trying to buy a Precursor. I can subtract 40g from the cost of a Precursor and that’s how much I need left.

EDIT:

You are correct you can farm the mats if you desire. However those mats still have the same value associated with them. At any time you can choose to sell the mats you’ve farmed and get the stated value for them (obviously a simplification, but pretty close).

You can do the same thing for the precursor if it makes you feel better. Dusk costs:

250x all T6 mats
500 ectos
100 destroyer lodestones

when you collect those mats, instead of throwing them into the MF, throw them into the TP and they will yield you the money to buy a Dusk.

Ninja’ed, this guy said what I said.

Aether the Nob.9172:

Gestankfaust.4216:

I think you mean reviving from being downed. Then you have four skills to either eliminate what downed you or revive back up

In my exp…Guardians. #3 can almost raise you while being attacked itself. Use it then #4 which is the standard heal over time everyone has.

If this is not what you meant…then I/we are in need of more info from you

Yeah that’s what I mean. Reviving from being downed. This is also called “Rally”. So Guardians have the easiest way to rally?

Via traits, nobody has easy rally. Via food/runes/stats/skills… it’s really situational. If you put yourself in a 1v_, you’re just saying: I’m dead no matter what.

Why? No matter what class you are, you WILL die if you’re facing too many [strong/difficult] mobs.

Geikamir.6329:

Esplen.3940:

Geikamir.6329:

Esplen.3940:

Geikamir.6329:

It is most definitely unfair. The lottery is unfair, so using it as an justified example it how you think something is fair doesn’t make sense.

Two people can work with exactly the same amount of effort and be rewarded differently. That is exactly: Unfair.

So what’s the problem? It’s a system meant to be difficult. You’re playing against the house. It’s meant to be unfair. What do?

Again, random chance doesn’t equate to difficulty.

Also you say “It’s meant to be unfair”. So you are advocating for game designers to purposely make video games to be unfair? Let’s give people with red hair 100g at the beginning of the game. Or tall people a legendary on character creation. It’s great game design!

So, name one video game (MMORPG) that isn’t unfair. Please, do tell.

Every video that has items that can be purchased for a set amount. Every game has this. Some games also have unfair elements, as well. Such as this precursor fiasco.

Stop stepping around the question. You’re trying to say that this game NEEDS to have a[nother] method to get a Precursor. Why?

If you have proof that it works, give me that proof in a video game (MMORPG) that has no unfair qualities. Please. Do tell, I’ve been wanting to play that game for over a decade.

Iures.2894:

@Esplen—That post was actually aimed at Calcifire. Your post wasn’t there when I started typing. :p

So, remove the rares from the table by gambling with exotics. You’re bettering your odds and not costing yourself anything. And getting a 1/20 result once isn’t going to take as many tries as getting a 1/3 result 77 times, barring extreme outliers. . .

Hehe, I know the feels, I’d type a huge rant and see that someone already posted my response. QQ.

And bell curves are bells because of the outlying extremities. Sad truth is sad.

Geikamir.6329:

RNG by itself is not the problem. It’s the level of achievement granted to those that are lucky and those that are not. If you don’t get an ecto from a rare salvage you are out only 40s and you have a GOOD chance to get an ecto the next couple times.

If you gamble for a precursor you can spend often 600+ gold with no success. The chance is too small and the reward is too large. It’s just not conducive to fun for anyone but the lucky.

Who said anything about getting a Legendary is fun? The more and harder you have to work for it, the more rewarding it is. You can keep crying to make it easier, but it won’t be an achievement if Arenanet just says: “Oh, everyone who’s played the game 1,000 hours since release and/or spent $50 on gems and/or obtained Dungeon Master and/or obtained 500g shall get a free Legendary! Why? Because it’s too hard!”

laharl.8435:

You can farm most of the materials you are putting prices to. I’m sure most people farm most of the mats as opposed to buying it all. Plus the process of making your clovers will also give you a bunch of T6 mats.

I know at least for myself, the precursor is far more expensive that the combined expense of everything else, mostly because I didn’t buy most of it.

But that sort of argument is the equivalent of saying: Exotic equipment is free because I crafted it with materials I had. You had assets which could liquidate to money and instead turned it into an item which, in it’s own right, has value, as well.

goldi.3129:

The whole game is a lottery.
Nearly every single aspect is a roll in the background, be it if the boss 1hits you or if you loot an exotic or play the forge lottery.
I can do 20 runs with the exact same dungeon group. At the end of those runs not everyone will have earned the same in regards of mob/boss loot itemwise.
So you will always have it that player a has other results after doing the exact same thing for the exact same time as player b.

Actually a boss 1hitting you is not just a lottery, there are too many variables for it to be just that. I see your point, I just had to point out that flaw.

Good analogy, it directly relates to the game.

If you press V while alive, it makes it easier to resurrect yourself.

Since you don’t go down, hah…

Geikamir.6329:

Esplen.3940:

Geikamir.6329:

It is most definitely unfair. The lottery is unfair, so using it as an justified example it how you think something is fair doesn’t make sense.

Two people can work with exactly the same amount of effort and be rewarded differently. That is exactly: Unfair.

So what’s the problem? It’s a system meant to be difficult. You’re playing against the house. It’s meant to be unfair. What do?

Again, random chance doesn’t equate to difficulty.

Also you say “It’s meant to be unfair”. So you are advocating for game designers to purposely make video games to be unfair? Let’s give people with red hair 100g at the beginning of the game. Or tall people a legendary on character creation. It’s great game design!

So, name one video game (MMORPG) that isn’t unfair. Please, do tell.

While we’re talking about how it’s soooo hard to get a Precursor, I’d like to point you all to this nice thread that was posted a while ago:
Source

People have this unhealthy fixation on precursors. They seem to think that they are horribly expensive and everyone seems to have all 3 legendary gifts ready but the evil precursors are holding them back. This thread is designed to put some actual numbers to those claims and see what the costs actually are and how they compare.

I will not talk about the Gift of Mastery because none of the parts can be bought, they are all earned through various play styles.

First lets look at the gift of Fortune:

T6 mats- 250 of each type. Given market buy prices this will cost 249g as of writing. Using market sell prices this will cost 264g
250 ectos= 94g
77mystic clovers- 94g for ectos and 20g for mystic coins

Total cost = 457g

Next the Gift of " ". This one is different for different weapons, but I will look at the cost of 3 of the more popular ones. Bolt, Twilight and Incinerator.

Gift of Bolt: 475g
Icy Runestone: 100g
Gift of lightning: 358g
-100 Charged lodestone- 330g
-250 Ori ingot- 16.5g
-250 bolt of gossomer- 12.4g
Gift of Metal: 19g

Gift of Twlight:312.5g
Icy Runestone: 100g
Gift of Darkness: 193.5g
-100 lodestones- 175g
– 250 Ori- 16.5g
-250 leather- 2g
Gift of Metal: 19g

Gift of Incinerator:309g
Icy Runestone: 100g
Vial of liquid flame:
-Molten lodestone- 65g
-Destroyer lodestone- 125g
Gift of Metal- 19g

Finally lets look at the prices of the precursors for these same 3:

Zap: 320-390g
Dusk: 620-700g
Spark: 570-620g

As we can see, if you are making Bolt, the precursor is actually the cheapest part of the legendary. If you are making Twlight or Incinerator then the cost of the precursor is still less then the cost of the other 2 gifts.

The problem is you can break apart the other gifts and slowly buy the parts you need. For the precursors people need to save up a lump sum, and most people don’t have the self control to do that. They spend spend spend, instead of saving. If you actually have the other 2 gifts then you are capable of getting your precursor, you just need to stop spending and start saving.

The precursor prices have risen at roughly the same rate as the cost of the other gifts. As mats get more expensive, so do the things those mats are used to make.

Wow thanks, finally I can slap some sense into those “OMG PRECURSORS, I WAN MY LEGENDARIII NAOOOOOOO” people.

Time to get out the salmon stick.

StevesDad.8213:

Esplen.3940:

Never was broken. It affects the cooldown of their [the Phantasms] attacks.

When was it fixed? What patch?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Phantasmal-Haste

There are several threads about it.

Cough

Never was broken.

Calcifire.1864:

I don’t see your point here. You’re basically saying that because your progress is tangible on the Clovers, it’s easier?

not easier, but it takes the edge off

let’s take a theoretical example of two guys on excercise bikes pedalling for a thousand miles, on one a tank slowly fills with water, when it hits the top, a light turns on, on the other there is no tank.

if you toil all day in the hope that the light turns on you’ll start to have doubt eat away at you “will the light turn on soon? how long have I been doing this? am I just being messed with?”

if you can see the tank, you are sure there is progress occurring, you can see where you are, it could only require that final push and seeing the last little bit of water filling the tank could be what you need for that last boost of motivation.

it may be the same task, but which one is going to FEEL easier? a seemingly arbitrary end point, or a progress bar? and which of those is going to affect your mood and willingness to press on?

hell there’s an example in the personal story, when holding out in claw island you nearly always thing “will these undead waves ever end?”, now compare that to a timer or “faction control” bar. it’s an incredibly effective interface decision because it makes you think that there will be no end :P

I’d rather have the one with no progress bar. Why? I could always hope that I’m right at the end. I could give myself the false illusion that I’m at the final stretch and that there is something/someone waiting at the end.

If there is a progress bar, I would only be able to say: Ugh, I still have that much left…

Iures.2894:

Did. . .you essentially just admit that your primary complaint is that you can’t motivate yourself?

That’s not my complaint. I have no motivation to get a Legendary because they do not pique my interest. Well, they do, however I have other things that I would rather get first, and I can easily collect my way towards both of them at the same time. I’m taking a really, really slow path to getting my Legendary. Think of it as the race between the tortoise and the hare. I’m the tortoise, you’re the hare. I don’t really care about the end, but I’ll go to it since there’s not much else I can do with my excess goods. You’re rushing to the end because you want that little bit of shiny.

Geikamir.6329:

It is most definitely unfair. The lottery is unfair, so using it as an justified example it how you think something is fair doesn’t make sense.

Two people can work with exactly the same amount of effort and be rewarded differently. That is exactly: Unfair.

So what’s the problem? It’s a system meant to be difficult. You’re playing against the house. It’s meant to be unfair. What do?

@Charismatic Harm

I’m on your side and I didn’t even notice them. Here are my answers, regardless.

• So getting Mystic Clovers doesn’t put you at the mercy of RNG?
  Ans: It does, I am currently ~40 in, yet I don’t really work towards them. I’ll craft them occasionally when I have the feels.

• Getting stacks upon stacks upon stacks of T6 materials doesn’t put you at the mercy of RNG?
  Ans: I just play the game and I get them. If I ever don’t have enough, I’ll put in my skill points towards getting more at a STABLE rate, instead of using RNG to accommodate my want of more.

• Is it that the RNG on THOSE items is more acceptable to you?
  Ans: In terms of individuality, yes. In terms of how many I need for a legendary, I have given no thought towards that, nor do I care to.

• Could it be that the RNG in place for a highly desired, highly rare, singular component for a *Legendary weapon SHOULD have a greater amount of RNG associated with it?
  Ans:* It should, which is why I believe Precursors are at a great point. The manipulation is done by the rich who aim to be richer. The complaints are done by the people aiming towards helping the rich (if you think about it, all the people complaining here are most likely the ones going to the Trading Post to buy the Precursors, in the end).

• Are you mad because it’s priced out of YOUR reach?
  Ans: I’m mad… at myself, for not buying Chaos Gun and Bolt when they were 50g and I could afford them. Heck, I’m mad at myself for not buying gems when they were a few silver per 100.

• Have you thought about why YOU even want a Legendary Weapon?
  Ans: I like The Quip’s sounds and I like the idea of clowns. I also love Swords, I carry 9 Exotic Swords with me at all times.

• Is it so that you can show it off to your buddies?
  Ans: Yes, I carry the swords to show off, but I also carry them because I like them. I like them because they’re unique skins that most people don’t care to go for, e.g. Wooden Sword of Earth. Who would wear a Wooden Sword at level 80? And no, I’m not talking about the two Wintersday skins.

• Is it because it’s better than the current Best in Slot weapon?
  Ans: Well, Ascended Weapons are going to be easier to get than a Legendary, so why should I worry about that? Exotics were easy as heck to get and most people transmuted their Legendaries so they aren’t Purple anymore, anyways.

• What happens when you DO get your Legendary Weapon and no longer have anything to work toward?
  Ans: I’ll finally have no excuse to finish my other gear sets and get 20 slot bags to take over my 15 slot bags. And then I’ll just do what I’m doing now. Getting on GW2 to do whatever I want, whenever I want. I have no goals right now other than to play the game and make more money so I can play the game.

• Will you leave the game because you’re “done”?
  Ans: That’s a harsh question. I don’t know if and when I’ll ever be done, maybe when the market gets to a point where I can’t trade on it at all, but I think ANet will step in if something like that happens.

• Are you going for a Legendary because ArenaNet said that Legendaries will always be Best In Slot and match up with Ascended weapons when they’re released?
  Ans: I couldn’t care less. Bifrost looks nice, Zap is nice (although I prefer when a Sword’s effect is on the… Sword… only), and The Quip has amazing sounds, but The Quip only has 1 skill on it that would make the sound and it has a 20 second cooldown for me. As for your question, I already answered it with the fact that Ascended Weapons will be easier to get. Additionally, they will most likely release higher tiers of weapons and they are planning on expansions.

• Are those Ascended weapons in the game yet?
  Ans: No.

• Do you have time to hope RNG will be in your favor by the time those are released?
  Ans: I always have time to hope. I highly doubt it will, but I can always hope and dream… like last night, I dreamt that my brother got married to some lady that got into a car crash with my dad, my brother, and I. She then decided that it was fair to trade her beat up car for our car and then somehow she started dating my brother and then they got married because she sent him a tablet containing photos. I also had really large boobs.

Never was broken. It affects the cooldown of their [the Phantasms] attacks.

Geikamir.6329:

Iures.2894:

Geikamir.6329:

Imagine you worked a job and at the end of every week instead of having a wage you rolled a die and whatever it landed on you were paid. Now imagine that your friend rolls 10,000 multiple times in a row, but for the past 6 months you’ve only rolled a 10. And you both do the exact same work.

It’s not fun, fair, or work. People that are unlucky are not lazy.

Imagine that you and your friend work the same job and got the same wages, but at the end of the week you routinely go to a unique gambling establishment. The rules for this establishment are that the worst you’ll walk away with is 25% of the buy-in, and the best is about 1,100 times the buy-in. You don’t know all the odds, but estimates say you have about a 20% chance of coming out slightly ahead, better odds if you game the system a little.

You can gamble, and your buddy can save up. It’s the same result either way.

What’s unfair about this?

My post directly above yours addressed the TP side of things.

If there was an NPC that sold precursors for a SET amount, this whole issue would already have been alleviated already.

There is an NPC. It’s called the Trading Post and he sells it for 800g.

Sarcasm aside, you realize that the analogy being made to yours had no unfairness. If you spend your money gambling… you’re gambling. Get over the fact that you lost money.

If you buy a lotto ticket every week, you aren’t guaranteed to win the lotto.

If your friend buys one lotto ticket and you’ve bought one every week since the beginning of the lotto, and your friend wins the lotto, is that unfair?

Calcifire.1864:

Iures.2894:

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

Mystic clovers rng should not be compared to precursor rng.. the only similarity is that both have a RNG elements, the amount of rng differs so much however, that this is where the similarities stop.

Wait, so an RNG element that is ~33% chance and you have to complete 77 times is better than the RNG element that you only have to complete once? You sure about that?

even if the chances of getting a perfect run of clovers is less than the chances of getting a precursor, the difference is that getting a precursor is binary, either you get one or you don’t.

even if you get the average of 33%, at least you feel like you’re progressing, with a precursor you can work for months without getting the drop and feel like all your time is wasted.

you can get 35 clovers and think “sweet, I’m about halfway!”, you can’t get halfway to a precursor (unless you buy one, and then you’re just playing into the hands of the uber rich, allowing them to buy up more precursors and tighten their hold on the market)

I don’t see your point here. You’re basically saying that because your progress is tangible on the Clovers, it’s easier?

My post got lost in the void, but basically, all of those points are valid, it’s just that they all revolve around damage. If anything, I’d like to have Debilitating Invigoration (inverse of Dissipation) and then spec around constant clone creation so I can boon myself/others.

Iures.2894:

Iehova.9518:

Esplen.3940:

wall of text

Take the hint, buddy.

Oh, no! How dare someone expect me to read on a forum?

Seriously, though, when did “wall of text” switch from meaning “giant post with little/no punctuation and no paragraph divisions” to “anything longer than a paragraph”?

Anyway, to all those complaining about the methods of getting precursors: The methods are fine if you actually use them. Weigh the costs of throwing rares into the forge versus the costs of buying it on the TP, and go with whichever is cheaper.

Take, for instance, Zap (I’m slowly working towards Bolt atm). The current lowest sale order is 390g. For that much, you could buy nearly 1,100 rare swords and throw them into the forge. That’s 275 attempts right off the bat, up to about 360 attempts overall if you throw all the results back. With the 1/6 rate of upgrade that I’ve heard elsewhere, that’s 64 exotics off the initial batch?

Or, you can instead toss in cheap exotics. The cheapest buy orders at the moment are around 1g, so you should be able to get about 390 of them, give or take. Call that 97 exotics back from the initial batch, another 24 or 25 after that, then another 6. . .yeah odds are good that somewhere in those 130 exotics, you have a precursor.

Or, hey, if you have 390 gold to gamble with, you also have 390 gold to just buy the darn thing.

And, of course, in the process of earning all that gold, you’ll be doing events which have a chance to drop it, or drop other exotics, or other rares to MF. . .

All of which I summed up in my “lolohgawdwalloftext”. Also, the estimated rare—>exotic is 1/5.

Geikamir.6329:

Lazy has 100% NOTHING to do with this argument.

Imagine you worked a job and at the end of every week instead of having a wage you rolled a die and whatever it landed on you were paid. Now imagine that your friend rolls 10,000 multiple times in a row, but for the past 6 months you’ve only rolled a 10. And you both do the exact same work.

It’s not fun, fair, or work. People that are unlucky are not lazy.

That’s a terrible analogy. It’s more like, you can choose to put part of your paycheck into a die roll.

It’s lazy to just avoid the system altogether. You’re saying that the system is bad because you’re forced to use the Trading Post. You are, in no way, forced to use the Trading post. It’s lazy of you to ignore a method and say that you HAVE to use a different method and that it’s a stupid method.

You have three methods which you can choose. If you don’t like any of the three methods, that’s your opinion, so you can choose to not get one, or to bear through it. Regardless of your choice, they are still the choices available. I don’t see what the problem is at all.

Geikamir.6329:

It’s an unfair and frustrating punishment for those players that did nothing wrong but be unlucky.

Simply not being lucky does not make oneself unlucky.

Think about it. Also, stop trying to rush it. If you want to rush it, take the trading post route and stop complaining. Sure, it MIGHT be getting manipulated by a few people, but you know what? If you had the money and the knowhow, you probably would too, especially if people would be willing to buy [into] it.

Heck, I’d do it if I knew I was making a profit simply because I know people are [grudging yet] willing to buy these items.

The majority of the community complains about getting Legendary [precursors]. Why? Because it does not conform to their lazy ways. If you stop being lazy and stop thinking about it as something you can get *NOW*, life becomes so much easier.

It’s a goal. Think of it as such.

Another goal, as an example to how you should think of goals, is 100% Achievements. Do you expect to have that done in a month of playing? Do you expect to be able to do that on one character?

If we’re arguing about things that can’t be done in an easy manner, let me complain about 100% Achievements. Why can’t I complete all the achievements on my one character? Why do I have to re-roll for race so I can complete my achievements? Why do I have to pick a different Order to complete my achievements? Why do I have to re-roll for profession so I can complete my achievements (weapon slayer)?

Hmm? Hmmm? Hmmmmmmmm?

Unspecified.9142:

Personally I’d rather see precursors dropped with something like a 5% to 15% chance at the end of something difficult to accomplish and be account bound than the current system. Examples of actual ‘hard content’ could include: The Clocktower (I found it easy so maybe it should be a longer and more challenging JP), a difficult dungeon like Arah explorable (not sure Arah explorable is actually hard enough), or taking Stonemist (lower chance here maybe, but you should be able to get precursors in WvW).

At least that way a legendary actually requires accomplishing something other than beating your head against a wall until it breaks.

So then a guild dedicated to doing Pv[insert whatever you’re talking about for the 5-15% chance here] will be able to farm them and control the market. Yayyyyyy.

Think about it, there are hardcore Dungeon guilds that run through arah p4 easy peasy. They just don’t. Why? They don’t get anything out of it other than a few measly tokens which they can get for a lot less time and effort doing other paths.

WvW? People break down those gates on a daily basis, depending on the server.

There is no method that has been suggested that would stop people from farming it, therefore allowing them to control the market on it.

Additionally, adding a chance like 5-15% would increase the amount in circulation by such a large margin that Legendaries would mean even less than they currently do, which isn’t saying much.

Valderro.6389:

Esplen.3940:

You know what else is buggy? Mixing Stealth with Decoy. If you mix them, when one ends, you’ll become visible for the rest of the duration of the other.

Now this something that annoys me too, all the stealths that thief have seem to stack fine with a limit on max duration, I don’t know why decoy is an exception.

It’s not a true stealth, therefore it actually bypasses the stealth cooldown. Love it, don’t hate it.

Apolyon.6937:

Esplen.3940:

It was a 0.01% chance at the end of a dungeon with difficulty equivalent to Arah Path 4. Meaning you had to do Arah Path 4 ~10,000x to get it.

Sure, some people got it on their first runs, and others ran it more than the allotted 10,000x without getting it at all. Even with that in mind, everyone who saw the weapon was awed and bowed down to the person wielding it in terms of GW dedication, even if they had no idea what they were doing in that game.

Can you name one weapon that was this hard to get?

It’s been much to long, but that’s how I remembered it. I was waiting to do a dungeon run, and I saw someone with a Scythe that looked glowy. It could have just been Envoy, but it looked more like the Bifrost as a Scythe. It was a year and a half since I’ve actually played GW1 and I never played it too in-depth until the end.

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

Charismatic Harm.9683:

Oglaf.1074:

Everyone can get 99% of the materials required for a Legendary.

Are you seriously telling me Anet are stupid enough to let the exclusiveness of a Legendary all rest on the Precursor? Really? REALLY?!

You still don’t get it. “Everyone” can’t get 99% of the materials required for a Legendary.

Gift of Exploration? Really? EVERYONE can get that?
Gift of Battle? Really? EVERYONE can get 500 Badges of Honor?

If you’re truly going to make broad accusations about the ENTIRE player base, you should really think about what the entire player base is actually capable of doing.

Stop thinking only of yourself and start thinking about the game as a whole.

These arguments you’re making are ridiculous and very short sighted.

As for making the exclusivity of a Legendary rely solely on the shoulders of the Precursor weapon…..maybe that was EXACTLY their intent. It’s actually a great way to do it if you really think about it. It would allow the ENTIRE player base to strive toward something….slowly, as intended….then when players get a precursor…they can either use it, or sell it to make money if it wasn’t the precursor they needed for THEIR Legendary.

Can everyone explore every part of the map? give me one reason why they wouldn’t be able to?

500 Honor badges, are you saying that everyone can’t do the jumping puzzles?

You are not making sense, sir.

Also I would like to note that you cannot compare the mystic clovers rng to precursor rng.

Mystic clovers rng should not be compared to precursor rng.. the only similarity is that both have a RNG elements, the amount of rng differs so much however, that this is where the similarities stop.

I know of plenty of people who have trouble keeping focus long enough to map complete and do jumping puzzles (even for simple vista’s). Just because you can do it doesn’t mean everyone else can. Sure, I was able to do mine, but I’m able to adapt.

The last bit is a tad confusing to me. They’re RNG, however, because they’re RNG, they ’re not comparable? Seems to me that you want to ignore that little facet.

Guys guys, guys, if you really don’t want to tip Arenanet, convert gold —> gems and stop whining.

If you enjoy the game, tip them. If you don’t enjoy it, don’t play it.

If you don’t enjoy the tip, don’t pay them at all and use gold…

Unspecified.9142:

I really wish people would stop equating RNG with ‘hard’.

Yes a very low drop rate makes something ‘hard to obtain’ but not in a way that is challenging. The only ability required to beat RNG is persistence. It is not ‘hard content’.

The current system for acquiring a precursor is ‘hard’ in the same way rolling a 20 on a D20 ten times in a row is ‘hard’. Any idiot can do it if he’s persistent enough but that doesn’t make it fun or a skill based challenge. I wouldn’t even call it ‘hard’ because it’s not. It’s just very, very, very unlikely you will succeed.

Precursors should be rewarded for achieving something a little more skill based than face-rolling around for long enough.

Have you played GW1? The super-shiny gear in GW1 were hard to obtain. I say this with the knowledge of your stance on that word.

It was a 0.01% chance at the end of a dungeon with difficulty equivalent to Arah Path 4. Meaning you had to do Arah Path 4 ~10,000x to get it.

Sure, some people got it on their first runs, and others ran it more than the allotted 10,000x without getting it at all. Even with that in mind, everyone who saw the weapon was awed and bowed down to the person wielding it in terms of GW dedication, even if they had no idea what they were doing in that game.

The precursor is not really that hard if you think about it. Instead of salvaging those rares you get, stick them in the mystic toilet. Instead of NPC’ing those greens you get, stick them in the mystic toilet. Instead of salvaging those exotics you get, stick them in the mystic toilet.

If you don’t like that method, run temples and world bosses, most servers do them daily.

If you don’t like that method, learn to save your money. If you’ve gotten ectos from salvaging your rares, don’t work towards making your infused fractal capacitor shiny, sell them on the TP to get your precursor. That lodestone and core you got from dungeon running? Sell them on the TP. Stop hoarding items and start liquidating your assets.

I’m sorry if you don’t understand, but it is SUPPOSED to be a long, slow, arduous process. If it was simply You put in X hours into this game, here’s a Legendary. it wouldn’t really be that amazing because everyone would get it after a few X hours of the games release.

You know what else is buggy? Mixing Stealth with Decoy. If you mix them, when one ends, you’ll become visible for the rest of the duration of the other.

It doesn’t make a difference in PvE, but in PvP… /wrist.

Also, I just tested Prestige and Chaos Storm… I was invis in it. Don’t see your problem.

EDIT: I didn’t test with damage. Okay, ignore the last sentence.

How’d you know I play me- oh wait… Uhh, it’s kinda like the Engineer in regards to playing a Piano, however it’s a bit more rewarding, I believe, and the punishment is instantaneous. It’s also a pain to level and more about the endgame than getting there. For you, I don’t think it’d be a good pick since you’re more of a last-gen MMO player in terms of “get char to max level, find new char to level”.

Essence Snow.3194:

I love this “they are not for everyone” / “they should be hard to obtain” stance. It really makes no sense. Players dedicating the most time and mastering every aspect of the game with excepting on the tp should be the ones with them imo(granted in conjunction with all other aspects of the game is not to which I am refering). Yet this is not the case, they are relegated to tp players and grinders. Which one of those is more deserving than the player that plays more thoroughly and why? I simply cannot justify why tp players and grinders are more deserving than a player that masters all of the content the game offers. A tp player can be lousy at playing content yet have one. A grinder maybe very proficient at one avenue yet horrid everywhere else. Or we have the lucky….so that player that rng shines on and gets lucky is more deserving than the ones that are not?

The current system does not reward mastering the game. It only rewards 3 things

Getting lucky, which is a reward in itself.
Or mastering niches, either the tp or lucrative grind

There is no requirement currently for them that is truly difficult. For the players that understand playing the tp, playing it is not hard. Grinding is not hard. Getting lucky is not hard, it’s lucky.

My question is why are legendaries weighed on the merit of tp effectiveness and grinding moreso than mastering the complete game?

You’re assuming that the ONLY method of getting a Legendary is via the Trading Post.

You can make your own Legendary which involves doing things other than playing the market game. In fact, if you do decide to take this route, you’re forced to get out of that Trading Post window to map complete, gather karma, gather skill points, and play the game.

Just thought I’d throw that out there.

Well, your two options are:

1. Make another class.
2. Settle down with one class.

I personally have 1 level 80. It’s a mesmer and I have 800 hours on it. I also have 7 other characters which are going nowhere.

You will never have 2 applications of the same condition where one is stronger. If the damage shows up as more, it’s typically because the duration is also greater.

Placing them both on an enemy will stack their durations, therefore the damage will be greater (over time, of course). The only exception to this rule is Bleeding and Vulnerability which stack to 25 each and each individual stack has its’ own damage (Bleeding, not Vulnerability). In this case, try not to override stacks of Bleed with weak Bleeds if the mob is near the 25 cap.

EDIT:
Forgot to mention that the first sentence of this post is wrong in regards to Might and buffs in between casts.

Iehova.9518:

Esplen.3940:

wall of text

Take the hint, buddy.

Aka, you don’t want to have an intellectual discussion, so you’re going to just stop and ignore someone’s retort? Very, very amazing how all the people on your side of the argument simply turn your back and twiddle your thumbs when a good response comes along.

BlackWolf.8605:

if theres no active trigger how can he go from spawning every 3 hours to not spawning allmost at all?

There are windows when he CAN spawn. That’s about it.

Go to the forum section labeled Human Engineer.

I love how people skipped my wall of text that retorts what they’ve said after it.

The game does feel incredibly anti-melee when you first start. Once you get the understanding and knowhow of the game, you slowly realize how wrong you are.

If you want an _easy_mode_ class that shows you how to melee, somewhat incorrectly, but it’s still melee, try rolling a Thief. You can spam Dagger/Dagger3 for days and it’s melee, plus you won’t die in PvE.

If you, however, wish to actually play the game, I would highly suggest sucking it up and playing through, it gets a lot better.

In PvP, I pretty much only die to melee.

In PvE, I pretty much only die when I make a mistake (usually while on my ranged weapon set).

Oglaf.1074:

Strawman-argument; the last resort of the ignorant. Have you really nothing else to say, Esplen? There’s no defending the current Precursor system, and you just proved it.

Mmk, counter strawman with ad hominem, you sure showed me! Okay, you want my actual response?

Iehova.9518:

Esplen.3940:

Mystic Toilet. End-game Chests. Trading Post.

RNG. RNG. Ridiculously overpriced, manipulated and probably controlled by the 1% or gold sellers.

RNG is bad? Why is nobody complaining about Mystic Clovers? Oh wait, that’s just red herring. My bad. Let’s do an actual counter-argument, shall we?

Getting a Legendary, namely a precursor is ACTUALLY RIDICULOUSLY SIMILAR to how Super-Shiny kitten Weapons were obtained in GW1. In fact, it’s a LOT easier in GW2. That’s the main thing that put me off of them. Not that they were shiny and obviously going to be wanted by everyone (I’m a hipster, deal with it.), but they were TOO easy to get.

You haven’t played GW1 by the way you talk, son, so don’t go telling me that I’m out of line here. This is standard Guild Wars achieving from the get-go. You want something nice and shiny? You work for it. It’s hard? Deal with it.

You’re lucky you don’t have to run a dungeon like Arah Path 4 to have a 0.01% chance of getting a Legendary from the finish reward. That’s what it was like in GW1.

3 methods. 3 choices.

All of them are horribad and non-deterministic.

And this is strawman, good sir. Thanks for not being a hypocrite. /sarcasm

Stop. Complaining.

Listen here son, I finished my Sunrise 3 weeks ago and the ONLY part I truly hated about it was obtaining Dawn because it did not directly depend on me. Gimme one kitten reason why I shouldn’t be able to work towards the precursor the same kittening way I worked towards everything else.

Okay, dad, you disliked it. It didn’t revolve around you. You know what else doesn’t revolve around you? The worl- oh wait, now I’m ad hominem’ing. Alright this isn’t even an argument nor should it be treated as such, however, I will provide a counterargument because the last bit allows me to.

Because Arenanet made it so and you’re not above them. In fact, if you apply your wording to the methods listed as to how to OBTAIN a precursor, I can’t even counterargue it since it’s perfectly on track. You DO work towards getting a precursor the same way you do everything else. Pretty much everything in this game revolves around getting gear and getting gold. Both of those things contribute towards getting your Legendary, it’s just a matter of utilizing them. Don’t blame Arenanet because you wanted more Ectos instead of Mystic Toileting them. Don’t blame Arenanet because you wanted more Lodestones instead of saving to buy it off the Trading Post. Don’t blame Arenanet for YOUR choices. It was YOUR choice to not put your 100% towards getting it, everything you did COULD have worked towards it, if you wanted to. Need I continue?

You don’t need a Legendary. If you do need a Legendary, you’d best stop whining and get/farm it for whatever purpose you need it for.

What part of ‘deterministic’ don’t you understand? Every other part of every single kitten legendary is deterministic. You WILL get your crafting gifts, gift of Jumping, million karma, etc., eventually. With the precursor, you can throw thousands of rares into the Mystic toilet and get nothing; you can farm AC/CoF1 all day long only to see the prices rise; you can participate in every dragon kill for months and receive your usual blues and greens.

I’m not saying every twerp and nobody should receive a precursor for stomping a sparkfly, I WANT a hard-as-nails way to obtain it; and it was previously suggested that DM should qualify for 25% of this method.

And so you bring an argument from authority (with no source, therefore no authority) to back up your claim of having a hard method, which is what we’re discussing in the first place? I fail to see an argument here. You want a hard way to obtain it, yet you’re complaining that it’s hard. You also want it to be easier because someone else suggested it. That’s a good opinion, however, I respectfully disagree.

As I have previously stated, I personally think Legendary Weapons are TOO EASY to obtain. I do not have my own, nor do I wish to own one, however I will put my spare resources into obtaining one for those rainy days in Lion’s Arch (slow days or bored days).

Tips hat I think that’s enough to munch on for now, I doubt it’ll all be chewed, anyways.

LithePanther.5027:

Use gw2lfg.com to find a group

Your personal story revolves around Zhaitan. You should not be able to solo killing Zhaitan. In fact, it’s a joke that 5 people can kill Zhaitan. Some elder dragon he is…

The joke is how they kill him, not just that 5 people can take him down…

No, you can also ignore everything and level up.

Iehova.9518:

Esplen.3940:

Mystic Toilet. End-game Chests. Trading Post.

RNG. RNG. Ridiculously overpriced, manipulated and probably controlled by the 1% or gold sellers.

3 methods. 3 choices.

All of them are horribad and non-deterministic.

Stop. Complaining.

Listen here son, I finished my Sunrise 3 weeks ago and the ONLY part I truly hated about it was obtaining Dawn because it did not directly depend on me. Gimme one kitten reason why I shouldn’t be able to work towards the precursor the same kittening way I worked towards everything else.

You don’t need a Legendary. If you do need a Legendary, you’d best stop whining and get/farm it for whatever purpose you need it for.

What part of ‘deterministic’ don’t you understand? Every other part of every single kitten legendary is deterministic. You WILL get your crafting gifts, gift of Jumping, million karma, etc., eventually. With the precursor, you can throw thousands of rares into the Mystic toilet and get nothing; you can farm AC/CoF1 all day long only to see the prices rise; you can participate in every dragon kill for months and receive your usual blues and greens.

I’m not saying every twerp and nobody should receive a precursor for stomping a sparkfly, I WANT a hard-as-nails way to obtain it; and it was previously suggested that DM should qualify for 25% of this method.

So because it’s hard to get you don’t like it, yet you want it to be hard to get, but you don’t like it because it’s hard to get, but you still want it to be difficult, but it’s too hard to get, but you want it to be hard to get.

Cool story.

Dastion.3106:

Or randoms in sPvP who think my Time Warp is an enemy Feedback. :-/

Ok, that’s just stupidity.

If you want to be good at PvP and your FPS is keeping you down, play on lowest and suck it up. Pretty graphics or smooth frames.

Oglaf.1074:

They need a totally new way to obtain the Precursors, plain and simple.

Mystic Toilet. End-game Chests. Trading Post.

3 methods. 3 choices.

Stop. Complaining.

You don’t need a Legendary. If you do need a Legendary, you’d best stop whining and get/farm it for whatever purpose you need it for.

/thread

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I only get 3 Tokens out of a bag some of the time. Other times I get a Bag of Coins or a Pouch of Gems instead. I always get some Liquid Karma.

You ALWAYS get a Drop of Liquid Karma and a Bag of Coins. If you did Explorable Mode, you will also get 3 Tokens.

You’re talking about a Bag of Gems where you get 3 gems/crests/stuff.

Woah woah woah. You guys would rather have D3’s system where drops are affected by what’s IN the market than have a system where the drop rates don’t change?

You mean like Chaos Storm (especially in TA)?

Chaos Archangel.5071:

near any scrambling allies.
-Saw the build, your boon duration is longer but can you apply Vigor to allies?
-Wouldn’t retaliatory shield be a bit of a waste since only Aegis from Chaos Storm blocks attacks?
-Signet of Midnight isn’t bad, I used to hold on to it for the added boon duration, but you’d be doing your team more justice with more versatile abilities such as iDefender, Null Field, iDisenchanter.
- Depending on how offensive versus supportive you wanna be. I think you should invest more into the Inspiration tree, bro. Builds like these thrive off that trait line.
- Are you direct damage or conditions? What kind of runes do you use?

1. can you apply Vigor to allies?
   Ans: Yes, and you can even run the Vigorous Revelations (10 points Inspiration Trait3), but if you run that trait, you don’t need to have Signet of Inspiration since it alone can give 100% uptime on Vigor without any boon duration.
2. Wouldn’t retaliatory shield be a bit of a waste
   Ans: No, you can also get blocks from weapons and from using Mimic (currently the mesmer botm [bug of the month]). It’s not a huge amount, but it is more. If you have anything else you want to run, feel free to use anything else you deem worthy, such as Phantasmal Rage, but I find that not worth it as I shatter too fast/often. It’s just a personal choice.
3. Signet of Midnight isn’t bad, I used to hold on to it for the added boon duration, but you’d be doing your team more justice with more versatile abilities such as iDefender, Null Field, iDisenchanter.
   Ans: This isn’t a question, so this won’t really be an answer. Honestly, I don’t find that many opportunities to run iDefender or iDisenchanter. With iDisenchanter being buggy, you may as well run Null Field. iDefender has a low cooldown, but as stated previously, I shatter too often (especially since my F2 gives Retaliation). Null Field, if needed, replaces Feedback. No problems here.
4. Depending on how offensive versus supportive you wanna be. I think you should invest more into the Inspiration tree, bro. Builds like these thrive off that trait line.
   Ans: Literally no trait in that tree other than the Vigor on Shatters and Mender’s Purity (useful for everyone) would benefit someone using this build. The Focus cooldown would be nice, but there’s too much to drop for it, personally.
5. Are you direct damage or conditions? What kind of runes do you use?
   Ans: I don’t even focus on damage in any regard. If I were to wear Berserker’s, one hit (non-crit) with a GS does more than a full GS1 charge with my build on this. My main goal with this build is to buff my allies. My runes are 2 Superior Water, 2 Superior Monk, 2 Major Monk. I was actually going to run 2 Major Sanctuary just for diversity, but I got lazy and did an extra AC run that day, anyways. 100% Boon Duration is so nice, now just need them to fix Giver’s gear so I can get 112%. Then they need Boon Duration weaps so I can get 132%.