It’s quite clear that the cost of pres at least on the high end are controlled be a few and they got there by playing the game a very specific way that’s been funneled into a very few things (ie farm cof p1 ad nauseum, buy gems, buy g illegally or be a trading guru).
No. This is an assumption you are making. As I stated earlier in this thread, you cannot possibly gauge just how the activities you describe actually impact prices.
I think it is a qualitative assumption in that most activities in the game simply do not have high enough profit potential to support such prices. The observable impact certain activities have on them is apparent via the ability those activities have to support certain prices.
ex) the activity of farming meta events does not have the ability to sustain the high prices
the activity of cof p1 grinding has the ability to sustain the high prices
Edit…just read back some posts after the quoted and seems I have misjudged intent….point still stands though
It’s pretty obvious that they steer players towards certain play styles. Want t6 mats….dr on farming them will get ya…best bet is to farm gold. Want precursor….rng will get ya….best bet is to farm gold…want lodestones…rng and dr will get ya…best bet is to farm gold.
Obviously the least hindered path to a legendary is to farm gold. Now how do we go about that. Well most direct farming is again hindered by dr and rng. The methods that are not or have the least amount will be the prevalent options. Thus steering players towards certain methods.
Whether they are monopolised or not, is it good for the game that so many of the end game rewards are monopolised by gold which favours TP flipping, gold buying and gold farming (CoF p1 runs) instead of earned through content distributed throughout the game?
You’re no longer arguing about the efficiency of the marketplace (Which it is. It is incredibly efficient.) you are getting into the argument, whether it’s good for the game to artificially lengthen the duration in which you can attain this luxury items.
My answer to that is a resounding yes, especially when said luxury items have absolutely no affect on the gameplay.
EDIT: It’s interesting when you say “it rewards grind, RMT and TP flipping.” Extrinsic rewards perhaps, but what about the intrinsic rewards of actually playing the game? Despite your claims that “All other content becomes ignored,” there’s still a TON of players out there doing open world stuff, in WvW, and doing random other things like the SAB. I think it’s safe to say that a significant portion of the playerbase plays the game for its intrinsic rewards, not the extrinsic rewards.
I may be assuming a bit here, but I think what they were referring to is that the “manner” (tying to gold) of which they artificially lengthen (high gold cost) the duration of obtaining luxury item effect game play by adding incentive to participate in specific methods. By tying these luxuries so heavily to gold they encourage trading and cof1 type methods, thus indirectly effecting game play. They could have very easily used another method to extend the duration of obtaining luxury items.
And yes, waiting around for the group to get their act together for COF counts against your farming time.
This is a very good point that people who trumpet the profitability of CoF path 1 never mentions.
As I have no personal experience with these War/Mes CoF Path 1 speedruns, I really do wonder how long you wait for the perfect group set-up in between all the gear-checks and whatnot. I also wonder what the actual efficiency of these runs is. Even a small mistake like a downed person will add a few seconds to the speedrun. I run CoF with normal groups, and every once in an often you get a person who dies to the Slave Driver or the run across the bridge. Who knows…
Maybe 2-10 mins (ofc depends on the ppl) to get started. For a good group, that is a one time cost. Good groups are capable of 5-6min runs w/ next to no turn around costs. There is also a contested cost which varies that would need to be factored in.
Moving around has associated costs of setup time for change in content, wp costs, etc etc…for each move. Repetitive play only incurs most of those costs once on onset. These are mainly general play costs.
Edit..anywho I fear that I have unintentionally derailed the thread. Since I have recognized this I will end my part of this path here.
Well, the biggest problem you already stated in your OP. That sell/buy listings =/= sell/buy orders.
You have many examples of items whose prices don’t quite match up to their sell/buy listing ratios.
Then you have your conclusion, which…is pretty obvious. I suppose not as obvious to those who don’t understand the concept of supply/demand.
Though I’d argue that the the main complaint isn’t WHY prices are high but that they SHOULDN’T be high. Many arguments all stem from this basic complaint.
1. Prices are high because manipulators. Prices are hence unnatural, unfair.
2. Prices are high because TP players. TP players not “legit,” prices are hence unfair.
3. Prices are high because item is too rare. Prices impossible to attain, unfair.
Which then spawns the discussion of whether the existence of such “luxury” goods in the game is good or not?
I believe the answer to that is yes. It is good for the game to make select rewards incredibly hard to attain, especially when these rewards have absolutely zero affect on the actual gameplay. But ah, that is an entirely independent topic from this one.
I don’t think I am on the “side” of most posters complaining/posting concerns about them.
I don’t really mind high prices as long as they are not gated behind unbalanced/broken items/play/mechanics.
Lets hypothetically put a new way to earn gold into the game, one that creates duo-fold what Cof p1 does. We would see prices shift/rise from being tied to Cof p1 and the like to this new potential. In essence if you wanted to obtain one of said items you would have to partake in this new activity. Cof p1 would no longer be an option b/c the exponential rate of gold from the new activity supersedes it.
This is basically what we have now. If one wants to amass enough gold for said items they really have no choice but to do cof p1 or trade (ofc there are exceptions). Essentially they are gated behind these activities which are noticeably unbalanced. That is the reason I debate it. I feel it is a poor design choice, not necessarily “unfair”.
I find it very poor that Anets allows the continuance of gold dictation for said items. As the traders and grinders amass more wealth at a exponential rate compared to that of anything else. The lack of ability for anything else to attain such will also increase exponentially.
Basically the longer this continues the further away/ longer it’ll take any other method to obtain said items. Idk if that makes sense.
An example just for demonstrative purposes:
On a scale of 0-10 0=impossible and 10=possible, the ability a method of obtaining a legendary changes in correlation to the amount of time discrepancies are left in place.
So let’s say now trading and cof p1 have an artificial value of 6 and all other play has a value of 2. As things stand and time progresses trading and grinding will raise that value towards 10, while at the same time pushing the value of all other play towards 0.
That is what I am pointing fingers at….not that they are too rare… or just that they cost too much..it’s the disparity and the ever increasing disparity that disparity creates.
I contend that there are only a few activities that allow such prices. Trading and things like Cof p1.. The vast majority of game play has nothing to do with the current prices. Without the profit potential of those avenues the price difference would be much smaller.
The trading and Cof p1 communities are the ones that decide the prices of said items, not the overall gw2 community. Normal game play does not have the ability to sustain elevated prices.
As long as the numbers of traders+cof p1 grinders+v (v= other catagory…could be rl cash into gems could be extreme lucky ppls etc…) > the supply of a certain item, the mass community of gw2 will have zero bearing on said item’s price.
In essence the prices are dictated by a niche of players, not the community as a whole.
I guess my word choice was off. What I was trying to get across is basically what you just said. That most of the “demand” listed by Spidy is not realistic……ie all the buy orders under such amount are likely to nvr to be filled and those with the oders have that knowledge. They seem to be more of a way to bank cash (sorta like the lemon of ol), then legitimate “demand”.
For instance, I just now almost doubled the “demand” for The Colossus from 376 to 626. Do I expect my order of 250 Colossus to ever be filled?…no…I have risked nothing as I can retrieve everything invested at whim.
Basically what I am trying to get at is that the “demand” numbers from Spidy mean nada.
How many of the buy orders are within reason? What is considered reasonable?
For instance take Dusk atm there are 14 buy orders above 410g. According to Spidy there are 14 available with “demand” of 5021. So that means that the vast majority of the “demand” is not exactly realistic. Wouldn’t any buy order, even ones at 1 copper, count towards Spidy’s “demand” of 5021?
I think a more accurate picture of the “demand” would need to take into account reason.
We consistently see it in the short term. It doesn’t tend to work in the long run for most items. I have a guildy who put up a sell wall of 21k+@ 3s ea on an item and that wall has been there for well over a week. Now it’s down to about 7k items, but still in tack. It really depends on the item’s fluidity.
Yes, i know. The famous manipulators. Time to put an end on it.
And avoid them and anything they sell.
Mark prices on stones. Discuss real time with the community any minimal variation of the price and why, about anything, like wow ah do. On this very section.
Dig manipulators. If an alt is used to keep up, will be useless.
Price will be community driven, manipulation will not last.
Simply providing names on the TP clients of buyers and sellers.
Anet must give us names. Or shut down this BLT tool at all.
After all, they are proud to be a realistic market , right? Real market have names.
And scammers don’t last long. We cannot apply laws, we can apply a “community” pricelist. And “kick out” those sharks.
Be part of the game you bough. Put and update price on wiki or any other community website dedicated to it, so it’s clear and written on stone even for a newcomer.
Results? A way better game, more enjoyable, a sane market.
That seems like a lovely little project for you. Why don’t you start by trying to convince the people that own the precursors to sell them at the prices that you find reasonable?
Maybe he should convince the people who currently buy them at these prices not to do so. The items seem to be worth it, so the system’s working.
The only reason it works now is mainly b/c of cof p1 and trading. If those 2 did not allow for such high levels of amassing gold, then it would definitely not work since the ability to gain gold elsewhere is not nearly on par….ie the system only works b/c of those and for those.
I seem to be on an unlucky spell as I have not received anything but blues and some sparse greens (medallions aside) from the regular chests ever since the switch.
Everyone can access to the price , a community driven price accordingly to the rarity, meaning ingame for certain reasons, popularity of something from a community driver website, nearly real time price.
I’m confused. But the GW2 TP does all this.
So who exactly chose the actual precursor price, tell me.
The grinders and the tp players mostly…a minority of the player base sets those prices.
Every passing minute that it is/has been left is only making the issue bigger. It was plainly obvious quite some time ago what it was producing and the problem (if size is of issue) could have been nipped in the bud w/o the added complication that time amasses.
I’m not sure how holding off to fix an issue that grows in complexity is a good thing. To me it make sense to fix things when they are easier to fix than to wait until they are harder to fix. Ofc this may or may not be relevant.
I feel the main flaws with it is the build time of 3 days and that it takes up a valuable build slot. Like others have noted Cof p1 runs into influence via promoter takes less time, will not take up build slot, and will most likely gain you profit.
Cof p1 should be trivial to solve. Putting a gate up to require the bridge event…….blocking off the safe spots during the alcolyte event….adding confusion condition….etc. I really need to start reaching to figure out why it is left in it’s current state. The only thing I can come up with why they allow it is b/c the player base needs a method of gaining wealth that approaches the profit potential of playing the tp w/o actually playing the tp. I know that’s a stretch, but I am at a loss to the reasons.
@Essence Snow: The “how to get gold” mentality affects the player base of most MMOs to greater or lesser extents. It may be more exaggerated in games where the highest level of gear is able to be traded between players, but removing this type of trade then reduces the number of avenues that players have to obtain this gear.
Interestingly enough, none of the available ascended tier pieces are available for gold so far…
Oh I have no thoughts of it being removed…that would be asinine…just measures put in place to keep things in check. Much like how gold sinks keep normal play inflation in check, something is needed to keep things like trading/cof p1 runs in check.
Having some things in check while allowing others to run rampant is erroneous.
While we do not have the rampant inflation that D3 has/had we do however suffer the some of same consequences from a TP centered economy. Atm some of those are going unchecked, which is very worrisome.
If you read the articles, you would see that they were talking about how the auction house effected the mindset of the players. That is turned the core focus of the game to “how to get gold” rather than “how to play and have fun”. In this regard it is very comparable to our TP as it does essentially the exact same thing. They go on further to say that the “how to get gold” mentality was a major factor that negatively influenced the economy.
I contend that the articles are spot on in relation to GW2, as we too are becoming more of the mindset of “how to get gold”. The experiences that Blizzard had with D3 should not be taken lightly of how things may or may not turn out here.
Looks like this got patched, I finished monthly pve this morning and got 10 laurels, and I just now finished the spvp monthly and received no laurels.
It would only work if you completed the PvE monthly before the Mar 26th patch and the PvP monthly after it.
Like I noted earlier in this and the other thread…That is exactly what I did, yet I did NOT get any extra laurels. So at the very least this does not work for everyone.
Just did it, didn’t get anything, they fixed it. It’s like they don’t even test their patches, they just bring them and hope for the best and put some quick hotfixes after, like this.
I had the same experience. I finished my PvP monthly yesterday and did NOT get any extra laurels…I had already finished my PvE monthly prior.
edit: It would have been brilliant if this were all some ploy to get more ppl into spvp
Nah, they are actually making it a lot worse, now many noobs joined tournaments and had no idea where they are or what to do.
Without those “noobs” spvp would mostly be dead or dying. A fresh influx of players is critical to the health of spvp. What you want is cutting off your nose spite your face.
I read both and I do see blatant similarities with them and GW2. The main difference I see is that we are moreso in our infancy, where theirs has rapidly progressed to maturity. I venture to say we are on the same path (albeit ours is slower moving) of our tp doing more harm than good much as D3.
It matters if it is already being built or not. If it is simply in queue to be built then you’ll get the influence back. If it is already in the process of being built then you’re sol. At least that is my understanding of it….note I have not cancelled a upgrade that is in the process, just ones that were queued to be built.
Unfortunately prices will not stay the way they are though. The gap, if it were, will only increase as long as such practices are allow bu Anet.
So in essence what we have currently is a system that over time increases the disparity. By that I mean the longer a player waits to jump on the “wealth avenue” the longer/more effort they will have to put into achieving the same means and the ways of achieving such decrease in variety.
The prices are not so much what I have issue with ( I personally have/have had the means), its the practice. The practice of fueling funneled play is (imo) simply bad design. I cannot think of one benefit it has, yet I can easily think of multiple hindrances it creates. That imho matters.
The prices of “high end” (items of either high predetermined value or high player created value) items are strictly based on a minority of the player base. The amount of gold that the majority consistently earns really does not factor into it.
Since the number of minority wealthy players > the supply of “high end” items, the majority population has next to no bearing on said item prices. Thus effectively creating “haves” and “have nots”.
You’d be surprised how many “unwealthy” players farm up the gold and then buy them off the TP, thus contributing to that specific market. Just last night a few of my friends finally got their buy orders filled on The Hunter and The Leaf of Kudzu, and I can say with absolute certainty that they are dirt poor now and farmed the living hell out of CoF 1 to make every gold spent on their precursors. Anyone can, and many will, contribute to this market and drive the prices. As long as people like my friends and others I know about, even those who aren’t super wealthy, continue to pay the prices as they are, the prices are without a doubt reasonable. You have to realize that countless players farm CoF 1 at length specifically to buy their precursors, and because they are generating tons of gold out of thin air in record times, people are constantly willing to pay more and more for these high-end items, and thus sellers constantly list them for higher and higher prices.
I will have to contend that when your friends grinded Cof p1 for that many hours they effectively bridged the gap. Then upon purchasing the items, fell off the bridge. Unfortunately the methods of “bridging the gap” are few and far between and rather specific at that.
Tbh I wouldn’t have much quarrel with it if it were not for the constant reminder we all have upon logging in.
More MF = more T6 materials + cores + lodestones + rares + exotics. When I pick up one of these things it makes me smile. When I pick up gold I feel nothing.
Choose happiness! Choose magic find!
I’m not sure on this but since t6 mats are only of “fine” rarity and heavy bags (and the like) are of common rarity, wouldn’t mf be counter productive?
They do drop from even the small splendid chests. Got my first one last night when killing the Sons of Savnir(sp) in their little hideout. JIC anyone was still wondering if they had to be obtained via JP or otherwise.
And as far as jumping puzzles go… I failed the mad king miserably and the one in Southsun too. I will need at least two full stacks if I want to have a chance. Some of us just weren’t made for the JP.
I will have to agree here…some players are definitely not made for jp’s. That said I need to put on my thinking cap and find (an) easily farmable splendid chest(s).
The prices on the TP are exactly what they should be based on three things:
The amount of items put on it
The amount of gold/hour we consistently earn
The number of players wanting a certain item
If you factor in how unhealthy CoF 1 is for the economy based on the gold it inputs, and the fact that ANet has completely ignored it for months, it isn’t a surprise that high-demand, low-supply items like precursors are 600g+.
The prices of “high end” (items of either high predetermined value or high player created value) items are strictly based on a minority of the player base. The amount of gold that the majority consistently earns really does not factor into it.
Since the number of minority wealthy players > the supply of “high end” items, the majority population has next to no bearing on said item prices. Thus effectively creating “haves” and “have nots”.
There is going to be a huge wealth gap between players much like in rl. Those that play varied content will have 0-100g on avg and then there will be those that play the TP and grind things like Cofp1. For those I would have to reason based off experience, but I would venture to say 1,000-10,000g.
Just did it, didn’t get anything, they fixed it. It’s like they don’t even test their patches, they just bring them and hope for the best and put some quick hotfixes after, like this.
I had the same experience. I finished my PvP monthly yesterday and did NOT get any extra laurels…I had already finished my PvE monthly prior.
edit: It would have been brilliant if this were all some ploy to get more ppl into spvp
No it isn’t cause I did the PvP monthly last night and got +10 laurels, so cause it involves me its not exploiting…lol
Also, its actually a good incentive to get some people to try PvP out who normally would never even play it, quite enjoyed myself getting the PvP monthly last night…
Plus, my internet exchange went down for a week a couple of weeks ago so I lost out on 7 laurels then, so the +10 now is just the balance of life restoring itself in my favour…
Had you already finished your pve monthly? Reason I ask is as I noted earlier in the thread….I finished mine as well and did NOT get 10 extra.
I finished my pvp monthly a couple hours ago and I had already finished my pve monthly……..no extra laurels…just the 10…which ever u finish 1st will net u the laurels…not both…at least anymore
What they really need is to let casters on twitch and youtube profit from the game. Right now they shut down any page getting money from playing their game. Right now only a handful of hardcore gw2 fanboys will continue to stream. The game needs more streamers and more commentators to even think of becoming an e-sport. The only streamer I know on twitch that gets more than 4 views is bitcloud.
This needs to change.
Wow…do they really do that? It would stand to reason that any press is good press, specially when it’s positive and they don’t have to pay for it. I’m not sure what they have to gain from shutting down those aside from ego.
With all the added build options it would be nice to be able to build more than the 3 upgrades we currently can atm. I know for super guilds where influence is of no concern, this is a non issue as they can afford to expedite building, but for medium to small guilds they are left constantly building forfeiting bonuses.
It would be nice to be able to have a secondary asuran outsource option or something of the like. At a min it would be nice to see the new bounty training not take up a valuable build slot.
I would have to say that no I would not play it and that I would try to convince my guild to move to another game if that were the case. Tbh they are the reason I am still here.
There are 4 major things that really hurt this game imo:
1) Does not feel rewarding
2) Constant nerfs w/o regard to fun and to lesser degree balance
3) Too reliant on RNG
4) Community tools/support lacking
Those 4 w/o question would prevent me from paying to play any game.
The ones you linked in your 2nd post are both 1680×1050. Even though I wouldn’t suggest running triple monitors for gaming, rather a single 27-30" 2560×1440, 1920×1080 (at min) monitors would be better imo.
I agree it kinda stinks that late comers will nvr have the option to catch up. That said, I do believe that the leader boards will replace legendaries in terms of perceive prestige.
Going to agree with sbr on this one, I think the whole point of the change was so that people stopped buying dungeon stuff and salvaging them for Ectos
If that were the point then they failed miserably.
Astonished ya’ll are still allowing Cof p1 to remain in it’s current state. Ya’ll changed the world bosses because of the economy, yet ignore what this allows/creates.
“Reduced quickness from 100% attack speed to 50%.”
“Weapons sold by vendors are no longer salvageable.”
These hit the CoF farmers pretty bad.
The quickness change does reduce the effectiveness of CoF runs.
At the same time it effects everything else where quickness was/is used, thus effectively leaving cof where it is in relation to everything else where quickness was used….ie an overall shift to everything not just cof
