Guild Wars 2

There is thread bout this issue in the game bugs section…..granted it’s not getting any dev feedback, but it’s there.

JarXLite.6720:

Orichalcum sells for 10s each? Might want to check the trading post buddy.

This^….they only sell for 3s 9c not 10s each.

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

I get the feeling that Anet will consider this a exploit tbh..

And this^….Doing this is taking advantage of guesting, not for it’s intended purpose of playing with friends, but rather to farm nodes.

Just signed on this afternoon after 10 hr break. I did one event in claedon on my guardian then switched to my necro and did Teq……..NO CHEST. Really how can I be on DR after 1 event?

The worst part about it, now I know I’m on DR so really there’s no motivation to do anything else in PvE b/c I know my drops will be effected, my dragon chests will be effected, my events will be effected, and I cannot do anything about it. I just started playing today and I hit this barrier. That simply cannot be working as intended.

Just got home from 12 hours of Superbowl parties and participated in 3 dragons and my dailys, nothing else. 2/3 dragon chest did not appear…Teq and Shatterer. I had 1 non chest prior to going out today as well. I am sending in bug tickets with every non chest and in doing so am spamming support. Plz take a look into this.

It’s not the matter of it being expensive it’s the matter of why it’s expensive. If (let’s use your example) Ferrari used tactics like Debeers has, then yes the US govt. would probably step in.

While I agree a monopoly in true form is most likely improbably in game, monopolistic behavior surely is alive and well.

I’ll give ya the luxury deal of them ig.

In terms of the analogy..I was not implying the US, rather the more agricultural societies of the world.

The medal (to me) shows that it is a major aspect of the game. Anyone who has or is working on one will attest to what kind of expenditure it really is. It is right up there with completing the story, completing the map, and or achieving titles. Is anyone being forced to do those things? No, ofc not. I never said they were.

Don’t let me get under your skin. It is not my intent. I am merely debating the subject, not you.

Hmm antitrust laws are one example.

Every good in the game is a luxury good. Do you think there is one that is not?

There is a very large population that would argue that yes a degree (and to lesser extent education) is a luxury good not to mention a “well-paid” job. I digress as the analogy was about the practice and not so much the “good”.

The point I was making is not that they are cornering you into deciding to make one, but rather cornering you after you have progress down the proverbial road.

In terms of this game, when you log in what do you see? Your characters and your account medals, which consist map completion, priory, vigil, and order participation, spvp participation, wvw participation, and wait for it…………..legendary weapon acquisition. I would argue that it is just as important a part of the game as the story is, as map completion is, as spvp, or wvw is. Seeing as none of those are being forced where in-lies the distinction?

Use the forge to turn the very common t5 into t6? The t6 is cheap on tp 54c ish I think. Other than that …heavy bags, but that’s not nearly as productive as salvaging.

Ursan.7846:

Essence Snow.3194:

Ursan.7846:

Enderr.5416:

The Choosen, precursor for Flameseeker Prophecies, went from 250g today up to 499g in few hours. Somebody bought them all and now are reselling at double the price.
Yeah, is so much fun for a regular player .. fun indeed.

Or maybe that item was undervalued all this time.

Supply and demand, what a novel concept eh?

Or maybe that item was bought up to control available supply.

Market and manipulation, what a novel concept eh?

~see what I did there?

You know, what enable these manipulation is because there’s people willing to pay that price. I.E. item was undervalued. If the game’s population believes the new prices are overpriced, it will drop. But I doubt it.

But nope, those evil, evil manipulators are just raising the price without a care for the average “Joe the Plumbers” that play the game. Woe is me.

I disagree…laws protect us in rl from this sort of thing. Just b/c someone pays a price does not make it a fair price nor fair practice. When you consider that these are not the only items needed for the recipes and many players work on/obtain the other components 1st, they get pigeon holed.

For example) You are working on a degree exclusive to a certain school. Class credits cost $200 per hour. You have completed all but your cornerstone class which is 5 credit hours. As you go to pay for it with your $1000, they inform you that it’s now $2000. They effectively have you cornered as the surmount of your time/work up to that point will be lost w/o paying the $2000.

There is no part of that, that is fair or just. Note that not all the buyers are necessarily “willing” as much as they are “cornered”.

Ursan.7846:

Enderr.5416:

The Choosen, precursor for Flameseeker Prophecies, went from 250g today up to 499g in few hours. Somebody bought them all and now are reselling at double the price.
Yeah, is so much fun for a regular player .. fun indeed.

Or maybe that item was undervalued all this time.

Supply and demand, what a novel concept eh?

Or maybe that item was bought up to control available supply.

Market and manipulation, what a novel concept eh?

~see what I did there?

Joe: “Man it’s cold out here!”
Bob: “It’s not cold, you just think it’s cold.”
Joe: “But it feels cold.”
Bob:“That’s just what you perceive…it’s not cold”
Joe:“What?”
Bob:“Do you have a thermometer?
Joe:”Well no, you have all the thermometers."
Bob:“Yeah it’s not cold”
Joe:“But there’s frost on the ground and the air is dry.”
Bob:“Those are just perceptions…it’s not cold”
Joe:“But it’s winter”
Bob: “Not in Australia”
Joe:“What?”
Bob:“Like I said…it’s not cold”

Or replace “cold” with "meteorite " and “thermometer” with “space peanut”

Healix.5819:

DR isn’t just for bots. DR is also safety net to catch exploits or something that was not intended. If there wasn’t DR, it would be far too easy to farm something simply by creating a zerg, mulitplying your loot. Event DR slows down the ability to tag and leave, event hopping through the zone. Dungeon DR just catches exploits and gives an incentive to run other paths.

Requiring something like a captcha doesn’t stop botting, it just temporarily interrupts it while the bot calls its master for help. For the human players, it simply creates an annoyance.

Very good point…ty

ColinJohanson.2394:

Just wanted to give a quick update on this topic. We’ve completed verifying every update from the november release, and there were zero changes to anything what so ever that would have negatively affected loot in any way/shape/form. We can officially confirm this as an X-files level conspiracy at this point.

We’re in the midst of evaluating every loot table in the game and running massive random roll evaluations table by table, as well as evaluating every system game wide that causes a player to qualify for items to determine if any issues exist in those systems from launch.

Will update again when we have another round of concrete information.

Just for clarity…when you say “from the November release” do you mean from that release alone…..or…all from that point on? Reason I ask is b/c just recently there was a change, that the player base has proof of, that can negatively effect loot (well…by negatively I mean no loot at all). Not to mention the champ/vet issue

PS… let me clarify by stating I’m mainly referring to dragon chests not appearing

Tesena.1075:

Fractal system is at fault – Rewarding
The main problem about rewarding when it comes to the Fractal system is that if you are on scale 30 you can still get the same weapon skins, rares, exotics and materials as you get on scale 70 +. The problem with this is that on higher scale it is more difficult to get through so this should be rewarded accordingly. This is one example that reflects my previous statement, that guild wars 2 rewarding system is at fault, because no matter how good you are of a player, you will not be rewarded more for your efforts than a player that is not that good.

I’ll simply address this one…..

Fractals are already one of/if not the most rewarding areas of the game. Fractal rewards are not limited to fractal weapons/rings, both btw are tis anyways. As a player progresses up in fractals their quality of loot increases already, but there has to be a point where dr kicks in (this is one place where I accept dr). If not then hypothetically at some point every drop would be a precursor.

Orion.7264:

ColinJohanson.2394:

TooBz.3065:

ColinJohanson.2394:

There is no such thing as player or account specific random loot rolls/odds. It’s the same for everyone, only magic find can alter your chances.

Thanks for the comment. It helps diffuse the conspiracy theorists. It is correct to say that there is no account specific information that is used as a seed in the random number generator?

That’s the only way that I could see any difference in drops for accounts.

That is correct yes, there is absolutely no account or character specific data used in loot rolls what so ever, can debunk that theory. The only thing you can do to alter a specific characters chances is magic find which is a stat visible on your character from gear/food, for loot drops specifically.

That being said, we’re trying to offset some of that random chance by implementing systems like our new laurel system (and other additions down the road) to help give players more opportunities to earn specific rewards as well over time. This gives the capacity for those exciting “jackpot” moments of getting a big reward, while also helping provide a more clear long term timeline when you can earn the same reward for those who don’t hit the moment-to-moment jackpot since for those who are extremely unlucky, it can be very frustrating.

Thank you for taking this direction. As one of the extremely unlucky people, I’m a huge fan of the laurels/tokens and similar systems you’ve implemented to help us out.

Thank you……you made my morning…well your comment in conjunction with your signature did

I was wondering if ya’ll would be open to something along the lines of a Turing test (well it would be more like reverse) in game vs having DR?

From my understanding both strive for the same result just in differentiated ways, deterring automation.

Would the annoyance of having an ig Turing test pop-up be worth it to you if it meant getting rid of DR?

What are some downfalls of using such a system vs our current DR system?

Do you think it’s possible to have such a thing implemented?..ie difficulty of coding…..causing more problem then it solves…

What would prevent them from in-acting some sort a CAPTCHA feature ig. I’d much rather have the annoyance from that then DR. Tbh I don’t understand why they haven’t tried alternatives to the current implementation since the current system is not working.
“The square peg will fit in that circular hole I know it will…I’ll make it, even if it takes me forever!”

Deroy.2457:

I wouldn’t be surprised if Diminishing Returns affects the Mystic Forge.

I would not doubt that at all. I mean we were told that DR didn’t effect chests, yet semi-recently we were told that it actually does effect dragon chests.

Been having the same issues…server lag consistently, usually followed by a dc. Just started 1/28 patch…I’m sure my log results would be same as everyone else’s here.

Pretty funny when u google mystic toilet…the forge is one of the top results along with some company that actually has a brand named “mystic toilet”

I wonder what would happen if they added new legendaries that had precursors that were soul/account bound and were only available via an extremely long, yet guaranteed, method that actually required playing content?

Horst Hortensie.5420:

I also had an invisible splendid chest the last days, so please check if it is just invisible.

The complaints are only regarding dragon chests, why should there be a difference to other final enemies on the maps? Anyone knows if this happens p.e. with the fire elemental in Metrica?
Maybe is culling the problem and not DR. Does culling affect the perception of a player nearby (from the view of a dragon)? I note this, because both Dragons affect the map to zoom out, but other enemies do also.

Some open informations about DR would be nice. Now I feel dumb, when I work on exploration and guide myself into DR.
I’m not the great loothunter, soloed some group events just to know if I could do it alone (even solo the loot isn’t worth it). Did one group event postpatch with a random stranger. He got nothing (died at 1% enemy health) and I got a blue item (Champion Risen Devourer). I explored to map before up to 60-65%.

In my cases they definitely were not there as there was nothing to interact with. It is very obvious to where a chest spawns during such an event as the other players mob it’s location.

In terms of other chests.. I have had no issues with the fire elemental or frozen maw chests.

Ofc I am only one account so that may be taken as a grain of salt.

If it were not for that dern account medal on the login screen, I would have zero interest in legendaries in their current state. Why? Because they are tied to the tp, because they have a stigma attached to them, there is nothing special about a nobel prize if anyone can buy and most who have them have bought it.

I’d much rather have a form of “income tax” than the “sales tax” we have now. Increasing the “sales tax” will have more of a negative effect of those will less than it will on those with more.

tigirius.9014:

Lafiel.9372:

I’ve been trying to get more notice of this topic because it is very real and it is getting worst. With each day, it is getting worst and worst for me (almost no chest after at least 10 total kills per day) and more and more people complaining about it. A lot of people can still get their chest but a lot of people can’t!

See that’s the issue I have, when the 1200 post thread about the nerf to drops in the open world reached critical mass and they opened a new thread accusing the players of having “perceived” the drop loss, everyone was on the Devs side saying “yeah stop the farmers! they’re the reason for everything wrong! who cares if they leave the game!” and now here we are seeing this play out. I’m watching to see if you guys get the same treatment by the devs we did, to see if they close this thread and open another one after it reaches a very large number of posts, and see if your complaints go unanswered because that’s what’s been happening to us ever since Nov. Right after Jon Peters made the statement that they love legit farmers and they are doing everything in their power to make sure that DR doesn’t affect real players, BAM they nerfed the very last Dragon event that was still dropping rares/exotics so that it started dropping nothing but blues and greens. smh….

DR has killed many a game when the devs haven’t listened to their players and they ended up driving away everyone but the RP crowd and having to shut down their business. This keeps up it’s going to be sooner rather then later.

I was one of the ppl affected by the wvw bug. If your not familiar with it…many players did not have wvw bonuses for months (I had over 1k hours play w/o the bonuses). It took them 1 month to acknowledge the bug, another month to reply stating the bug had been fixed, and another month to put in the fix (for some reason it had to wait to be lumped in with another content patch).

If that is any indication of urgency then I have to say it looks like we are kol (kitten out of luck) for a while.

Unlike the open world dr issue, we can prove this one much like we did with the wvw bonuses, which at least gives some semblance of weight.

Getting hit by all these “bugs” for extended periods of time really starts to hit home once you consider the summation of what’s lost.

So yeah I asked about something like this a while back and never got an answer. Is this type of thing acceptable?

I’ve had this happen twice now. The first timewas at Shatterer, I had been playing a while swapping across characters doing things all across the world. This time I had just logged in after 4hrs of not playing and did not receive one at Claw. For both instances I was awarded with gold achievement status.

PS~ I also got the “sound bug” at claw right b4 the end

PPS~This is starting to pop up in map chat more and more…so whatever it is it’s getting worse

PPPS~Just happened for a third time at Shatterer after a re-log to fix the sound bug from claw

Ursan.7846:

John Smith.4610:

Fiontar.4695:

John Smith.4610:

As soon as you begin referring to luxury goods as an inflationary issue I start skimming instead of reading. Within the last hour I’ve specifically said that you’re mistaking inflation for what is not inflation. Precursor prices aren’t changing due to inflation.

They are providing the mechanism for exponential earning of wealth via the TP, which, yes, indeed is driving inflation.

I’m a bit busy for the moment, can someone step in and explain why this isn’t true please?

Certainly John.

In a MMO, you have gold taps and gold sinks. Gold taps are what introduces gold to the economy, and gold sinks are what removes gold from the economy.

Examples of gold taps are gold drops from mobs, selling items to vendors, etc. You’re creating gold out of nothing essentially, and adding it to the game’s economy.

Examples of gold sinks are waypoints, repair costs, and TP listing fees. They remove the gold out of the economy.

You have inflation is gold taps outweight the gold sinks. Players are creating more money than destroying it. Hence there is more gold around in the in-game economy, gold becomes more worthless, and prices in general of EVERYTHING goes up. That is inflation.

But trading on the TP is NOT creating gold. In fact, with the listing fees, it’s doing the exact opposite. Every time a precursor is sold, a chunk of that gold is removed from the game. Yes, people are getting wealthier, but on the flip side someone just lost all that gold. The net gain in the game’s economy is negative, since gold was destroyed.

TL;DR: Trading over the TP is a gold sink, not a gold tap, cannot cause inflation.

Directly I agree, but indirectly they are adding to demand thus creating more desire to farm. Ergo…traders indirectly influence inflation.

Well said ^^ 15 charrs

I look at it more of combating inflation relative to rate at which players gain wealth regardless of the method.

Players are currently punished for farming via DR even though they may enjoy it much like how you enjoy playing/farming the TP. How is that any different? (besides input/output)

PS: I’m not exactly poor ig..this really isn’t related to my personal ig finance

Chamone.6890:

Essence Snow.3194:

Atm the jp’s are by far the most effective way of obtaining badges. I cringe at the thought of obtaining any significant amount of badges w/o the jp’s.

You cringe at the thought of actually playing WvW, the best feature of this game?

No..I cringe at the thought of obtaining badges solely via kills as the drop rate of them is…well rather poor. If the rate were increased I would be happy with having them soley linked to kills.

I mean it effectively inhibits supply to raise price. As you’ll notice when ever this happens not all of the items are put back together…rather trickled back in. I don’t think has anything to do with my understanding of econ.

Humor me for a moment plz. Hypothetically, if a progressive tax were added wouldn’t it help curb inflation? Maybe enough to…oh idk maybe…diminish the DR on farming/dungeons/dragons/events? Since DR combats inflation by limiting inputs and a tax combats inflation via outputs, couldn’t they re-balance the ratio as to make the game more fun for the 85% vs the 15%?

At some point in time most players will obtain max level on all their desired characters. This in turn makes regular transmutation stones for the most part obsolete once this has happened.

Since we can tie a value to each of the stone via the gem shop,
Reg: 5/125, 10/225, 25/500
Fine: 5/150, 10/360, 25/800
why not allow us to transfer the relative value of regular stones into fine ones?

For example) 5 regular stones could be turned into 1 fine stone

Heck I’d be happy with a 1:10 ratio

Atm the jp’s are by far the most effective way of obtaining badges. I cringe at the thought of obtaining any significant amount of badges w/o the jp’s.

Nozdrum.2894:

Who says that they have been bought. They have been removed from the tp. Maybe the guy seeling those came to the conclusion that he wants more for his stuff and put em back at a higher price. Maybe these are not even the same the lover’s, maybe someone did see that there are no the lover’s more on the tp and that he could sell his for a nice profit and buy another legendary and have some money over.
I am not saying your explanation is not valid. It is an option to explain those numbers, but it is not the only one.

Also these graphs are a good example of supply/demand. As you can see on Jan 30 there is one the lover in tp for 800g and over some time the supply rises and the prices falls. I guess in over a week or two the price will be the same as it has been some time ago, maybe higher because some items like ectoplasma rose in price. And believe me if you are trying to manipulate the market this way it is gonna cost a bunch if no one is buying your stuff at a high price because the tp-fee will kill you and your family.

My point is: The data helps your point ( not enterily because the droping price is working against the market-manipulator not for him ), but it does not rule every other option out and so it is only one of many explanation that do not have enough backup to be the only explanation.

Regardless of whether or not someone/s bought them or they were removed by someone/s, effectively it accomplishes the same thing.

Care to elaborate?

Idk tbh…I really hadn’t given it that much thought, just found it odd that the most effective way of making gains is the only one that is not effected by DR.

I guess they could add some sort of progressive tax based on coin earnings. I mean it’s very easy for them to see what each account makes via the TP…again coin earings, as assets are whole new can of worms and impose a tax based off of that.

I was wondering since we have DR on farming open world, on dragon chests, and on dungeons. why isn’t there DR on the TP?

Sunreva.8714:

These items are worth what people are willing to pay for them.

The more players acquire wealth, the more players reach 80, the more players find themselves situated and decide to pursue their legendary, the more these legendary-precursors are going to rise in price.

There is zero evidence that these precursors are being manipulated, and unless Arenanet definitively confirms otherwise, there is no reason to believe it.

Virtually ALL desirable items have risen in price, dyes, mystic weapons, mystic coins, globs of ectoplasms, lodestones, ect. I recall around the time this game came out, mystic coins were 2s, unid dyes were 3s, mystic weapons were 3g, and ectoplasms were 12s. No sinister manipulation here, no secret conspiracy to control these items, it’s simply gold inflation + supply/demand.

So let me get this straight…Randomly on multiple occasions the entire supply of certain precursors randomly all get bought out at the same time…then randomly appear back at significantly high prices which are marginalized by more than the tp tax?

Yeah…I concur nothing suspicious there

Well over 100g (i’ll leave it at that)…..was on this kick at one point where I was throwing named exo’s in there left and right due to dev post saying they had highest % chance. Only thing I can tell ya is they have a really good chance of not coming back named.

Ebonhawke? 15……..

In other words……that’s the last we’ll hear about it for 3-5 months. Keep your expectations low-none, that way you’re not that disappointed and if something happens…yay!

Zaxares.5419:

Actually, in single player RPGs, the first thing I do is use the console to give myself more money than I could ever spend (and I’m talking crazy amounts like 5 million gold.) This allows me to walk into shops and buy whatever item that catches my fancy, because if I didn’t have the money, I’d just go out and grind monsters until I did have enough gold to buy it. The way I see it, it’s just saving myself time for the same end result, and it’s not like anybody else’s gaming experience is going to be affected by what I do in a single player game.

Anyway, John Smith is right. The people who enjoy amassing huge sums of money in a game are probably the same people who enjoy creating huge financial empires in real life. Money is no longer the end goal to them; money just becomes the means of how they keep score. One difference is that these business moguls usually give a significant portion of money back to charity or sponsor scientific research/sports teams.

Hmm… I wonder if ANet could be persuaded to set up a kind of “Consortium Lottery” sponsored by these ultra-rich players…

The bolded part is key…….

John Smith.4610:

Actually about 15% of the population finds making money very fun, irrelevant of the uses of that money. Ever gotten unnecessarily rich in a single player RPG like Skyrim?

How? I mean…do 15% enjoy making money via the tp? or farming?…etc Sry w/o any clarity that could mean anything.

Oops! Was a cat let out of a bag? I foresee mysterious silence…….

kKagari.6804:

Its actually a great exercise in teamwork for new players. After you understand how to dodge the AoE, the only difficulty that remains is dealing with getting crystalized. Target the crystal and get everyone to take it down quickly if that person doesn’t have a means of getting out. A downed player should target a tendril to have it focused down to rally.

Imo it’s more like throwing a bunch of kids trying to learn how to swim in the deep end. Not a very good way to teach those new to swimming how to swim together.

Pretty sure we all already know which way it was…..

So there are events and not just the signs/fires/collectors? If so, guess my server is a bugged one.

I might be wrong here, but as far as I can tell if you already got the 75 in Wayfarer’s…there’s not much point in going.

Doggie.3184:

They didn’t nerf the awesome loot bag drops did they? Cuz I had a feeling they would. :s

Yes they did…………………………………..