Guild Wars 2

Exactly

But it’s cool he is trying to do it for himself rather than just recount the same old nonsense over and over based on something they read in a thread from angry players one day like it’s law.

Yeah I’ve never seen those numbers in actual fights either but assuming all the above with full bloodlust and maxed out might perhaps there were some stacks of vulnerability on the Mesmer?

I think the OP is going to be disappointed – not only are the numbers highly unlikely under almost any circumstance but there is also a lot of button pushing (which is counter to the popular belief that big numbers come from 2 buttons).

I haven’t tried daggers for absolutely ages though and all this talk has made me nostalgic

Zodd Master.2378:

I had the same problem too. I’m a thief and I know this class very well. Just few days ago I played 1vs1 versus a thief (alone in the map). The first 3 match I killed him easly (he was quite a noob) but at one point all changed. He was always stealthed for very very long time before the battle (so never hit me with C&D for sure) and always killed me with 1 PW and always with quikness (ther’s no build that can have always quikness every 10/15 seconds not even with critical haste). The only difference was that he reappear after first hit as usual.
U ask if Ur enemy was a cheater? Mine was for sure… and I think that also for ur thief

I’ve run a haste build before with haste on sigil, haste on runes (Orrion), haste in traits and haste itself (the skill). It’s not particularly good but when everything works within a single 60 second window it does appear like it’s up most of the time.

As soon as someone gets mouthy I grief them until they rage quit. Do the same.

I honestly believe the best way to learn how to play a thief is to just go into sPvP and stay there for at least 15 ranks. in that time your friend would have tried out plenty of options and builds and runes and sigils and be happy with their preferred play style.

However, my personal opinion is that condition builds are more forgiving in general and Pistol/Dagger as main set forces heavy stealth use so the learning curve is fast if stealth is the main problem.

This is not the first game that Columba plays almost exclusively on a forum using theorycrafting rather than in the actual game.

Collin Jones.9781:

Cheesiest class in the game for PvP.

Not 30 minutes ago i chased a Thief for 10-15 mins (ima Guard). catching her skirmishing over and over again. I’d win the skirmishes, shed smoke bomb, use her safe house or whatever these abilities are. She had about 3-5 ways to go into stealth or displace herself without a short bow. Basicly pressing her, “I dont lose ever” buttons and walking away, stalling for her HP to regen or her heal to come back up.

I don’t think Thieves should regen while stealthed. It’s being abused. Or the timer for being in combat shouldnt run out while in stealth because them maintaining stealth is for a combat reason.

-Note, at any point in time she could stall like this and WP away from a bad engagement. No skill required.

How is this fun or fair for the opposition? The ammount of skill it takes to press your invisibility button is quite low, while you could argue theres not much you can do to ensure a kill on a good thief.

Stealth is super strong in every MMO it comes out with. The ability to pick and chose who and when you fight, and also when you pull out of combat is incredibly powerful. Where is the balance? This is next gen gaming right? Why is this still an issue? Deminishing returns on stealth, slow their movespeed significantly, nerf the ammount of ways they can aquire it.

Or maybe melees should have a way to see stealth or atleast get a hint at which way shes going briefly. Going invisible in plain sight 2 inches infront of a guy hammering on you is pretty rediculous.

Currently, I have to use my gap closers once she on the map again. Then she uses hers to get away and stall for her cooldowns to run even more. How fun. Good job designing this. This must be intended, cause even in theorycrafting you could tell this was the end result.

I did get her down though, cause she engaged again for no real reason. Thats another issue. For “balance” purposes, you should be able to outplay your opponent OR Capitalize on their mistakes.

Theres no way for me to outplay someone who is this elusive. I have to wait for her to slip up (a smart thief wouldnt) and THEN i get to have a chance. Thats dumb. This class should require finess not just button mashing to spam invis when real competition comes along.

Anyway, once downed guess what she did. She stealthed away again. Didn’t reappear until she was healed about 90-95%, I judges interventioned over, too late, she disapeared. Didn’t catch her the last time, had no idea where she went. I think she WP’d away. This was an issue that they said they would fix back in the freaking Beta. Do you all play Thieves? wtf.

After catching this stupid person who cant fight or pvp worth a kitten about 8 times or more, she gets away. Thanks. I deserved it I guess right? For daring to fight a Thief at any particular skill level?

Cheesiest class in the game for PvP

Im never going to pvp in any form ever again. Your game is good. Your PvP sucks. Just because i don’t like being the pansy who stabs people in the back, i don’t get a fair chance at a fight. Thanks for punishing me

All you want is the guaranteed kill. Which it would be if she didn’t have stealth. You couldn’t walk up go swish swish and she falls over and it annoyed you. Terrible post. Your challenge is to figure it out without just expecting to waft your sword around and win all the time. And even if there is no possible way for you to win this 1v1, that’s fine… game isn’t balanced 1v1 congrats on meeting the rock to your scissors, now go group up and fight another group. There are builds a thief can’t kill either. It’s how the game works.

papaganookitten908:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSH2dKfemj8

Hilarious is all I can say. Never played before and still managed to troll people. 2 button madness.

That was a demo for thieves requiring a boost. Anything that didn’t have 2 people already on them almost killed you by looking your way.

Yashi.8703:

Over the past month I’ve created several videos highlighting heavily outnumbered fights in WvW on my thief. These videos are comprised primarily of 1vX situations, as well as a few small-group vs zerg situations.

Playlist of all videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7OYniHrGqE&list=PLE50VtH1YHTOygGC9_umIOED3kKgsXfeW

The most recent video (today) is commentary of my tactics as the fights unfold:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCWywAXmVP4

My spec is D/D and can be found in the info at the bottom of any of the videos.
I use Valkyrie armor, berzerker weapons/jewels. Runes of the wurm, sigil of bloodlust, sigil of fire, sigil of force. For full gear/spec display, see the end of the commentary video, or the end of my 4th video ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kupkZLVQ5XY ).

Please enjoy and feel free to share comments. I’m happy to provide further information to anyone interested.

Thanks for watching!

Very nice vid Most valuable bits of the vid are the decisions around when to back off to stay in the game. Very nice.

Fun vid !! Good job

I noticed my bloodlust last night in PvP did not stack with assassin’s signet effects and I have no idea if I have run these together before so is it bugged or just a one-off for me?

Seriously I am stunned by those numbers – never been hit that hard in full glass and never been able to dish it out on my thief either with 25 stacks of bloodlust and vuln on the target. I’ve hit and been hit for the C&D number, but nowehere near the whole combo damage.

OK I played hot join all evening and the absolute maximum number of thieves on any team was… 2. And for most of the time on my side there was one. I am going to call poo-poo on the team full of thieves all the time thing.

@Fishybill: Anyone who wanted to coordinate the hotjoin play last night got frustrated and logged off. The folks who were happy were those who got tons of points regardless of which side won. In fact there was one game where the losing side had 4 or so players ranking above the other side’s top players in points and were extremely happy with that. On several occasions the folks getting lesser points just leave early on in the game and the bout requires like 3 rounds of autobalancing. Just an indicator.

I feel dirty saying this but… I sometimes use Pistol Whip… there, I said it. Happy now!?!?

:)

If I run haste trait and sigil and one of them goes off I smack that 3 button because I just LOVE the flying blender anumation on an Asura

The issue is just that it is less effective vs good builds/players who are situationally aware compared to other options. It isn’t a horrible experience at all… but unload in PvP just usually ends up unloading my Init

Situationally it was fun (when folks were all engaged with other folks), but in that circumstance I am probably best off just bursting with S/D or S/P and ignore the unloads which seemed to attract their attention and make them angry

Dardamaniac.1295:

Well i have seen too a lot of hotjoins with full thieves in both teams..and pretty much till today i see at least 3 thieves in every team…They said to me L2P and i guess Anet agree with this since theres no nerfing coming….The Shortbow 1 in the Ranger wasnt alright since it made Rangers spamming 1 and winning but the thief combo is alright…And the inv stomping is alright i geuss.And even if you manage to stop his combo or the thief kitten up he can always stealth and walk away leaving you with zero points but again thats alright…I see about 2-3 posts everyday in the sPvP forum complaining about thieves but its alright..Its obvious thats something wrong with me

Wow that’s crazy – I have never seen one hotjoin that was all thieves – it’s usually like the red team in the screenshot.

nerva.7940:

Xeph.4513:

A lot of people in this post don’t seem to realise that the issue isn’t only the damage, but the fact that thieves can come in at any point in the fight and insta gib / stomp someone before the rest of the team can react and that is really bad game design and not really enjoyable for players on the receiving end.

xeph, i really appreciate your post. this happens to me all the time on my ranger bunker. ranger bunker is a high skill cap bunker that’s very rewarding to play when mastered. i could be handling 1 or 2 guys on point, barely surviving, hovering between 6-12k health lets say. and some thief roamer, who i cant see coming, will come in and instagib me for 13k burst on 2k toughness, instantly.

the problem is – WHERE IS THE SKILL? how am i to react to the most reliable single target burst in the game when i cant see it coming? it’s like getting smitten by lightning from the sky. basically, i just have to “deal” and take it. there’s no other explanation.

i fully support the thief getting some additional buffs to make it more appealing, but this ridiculous one-trick pony approach is just a bandaid for a class thats pretty underwhelming.

come on devs, i thought u said prior to release that you wanted fights to be strategic, without “headshot” type abilities in the game. the BS/mug/quickness or whatever combo is basically a sniper’s headshot from CoD or BF3.

You can handle 2 guys on a point? The burst thief can’t – you need a nerf my friend.

So silly comments aside. Your example is not a great one – I’d kill you on any class very quickly if you were already fighting 2 other guys and I’d make sure it was from range and behind you so you don’t see it and can’t do anything about it.

I don’t like being smashed by a thief when I am having a good fight. I don’t like being smashed by any class when I am having a good fight. Right now though… the role is not bunker, ranged or support. Which leaves…. damage. In fact… damage on a skinny red-headed kid who will die if he catches a cold.

Sure there are a few folks who can make an endless dodger with conditions work (which switches off 3 trait lines) but I don’t think that was the class intention. Folks need to be careful what they wish for… the damage nerfs come each patch for thieves and when it gets to the stage where they cannot effectively kill (which it will)… the class ends.

Disclaimer: I play Thief, Ranger, Mesmer, Warrior most of the time in sPvP.

I totally sympathise with the OP’s friends. I have only drafted in 1 player from the outside that I knew and it was because he was good at PvP in other games. PvP at the moment is too fast for anyone not playing it regularly.

HOWEVER….

I can make a build that can withstand a GC thief’s burst without me touching a key. Then I can heal. Eeasier on some classes, but doable on most. I have played as a GC thief myself and jumped (rarely mind you) stationary targets with everything firing off… Air Sigil, crits on steal/c&d/BS then haste kicks in and I start choppy choppy. The bugger then woke up and moved with 33% of his health in tact. I was done and he hadn’t done anything. These are better specs to try PvP out with for the first time. I even built a thief that could ignore thieves… couldn’t kill much, but stayed upright all day long.

I also like duels… noone duels on glass so maybe they’ll get lucky next time and it won’t be 8v8. I jumped into a session last night that was 2v2 so I think I got lucky.

XiL.4318:

In Pretend Forum Meta Land, Meta chases you.

That earns you a resounding LOL sir.

Hi Lofat, reporting back!

I got some WvW in and it was a lot of fun. The PvE like stats out there and mix of well equiped and poorly equiped folks made it interesting from fight to fight. I tried to stay off stealth entirely with it, blasting away from range most of the time and using S/D for burst kills when I knew I had enough init to get in and out safely.

I played 5 or 6 bouts of PvP also and it held up OK… it’s obviously not fantastic in there, but as a periphery fighter when a group on group mash-up is taking place it worked well enough to be fun.

I am fond of duels though so in PvP it has to take a backseat But fun out in the worlds.

Yeah go P/D – it’s far more effective than burst vs. multiple folks which you will be facing. With 40% bleed duration food and 45% duration from runes you hit 100% duration easily (anything over that doesn’t add any duration). You can turn over supply camps solo very comfortably.

Hi Lofat,

Nice vid ! Looks good for WvW… I was actually running almost exactly this in sPvP last night though and in there the unload crit accumulation won’t break much over 4k and people dodge

So many bunkers and dodgers in PvP… it ended up being mainly S/D because the pistols weren’t able to stick damage on decent players. I will try it out in WvW next time though because I also need a change from the condition builds I run in WvW.

Thank god you didn’t do rock for the sound track… I could actually watch this one with the sound on

Just captured some quick vid of me soloing Blue Lord and mesmer add with the build:

http://youtu.be/C0c2U0ZZOTA

It’s not point holding but shows the resilience of the build I guess.

Lokheit – thanks for the heads up sir !!

Got bored and ended up seeing how much health and toughness I could get in sPvP. Ran out and couldn’t kill a thing but could hold a point for ever. Decided to tone down the toughness and try and get some condition duration and ended up with a build that was very annoying for Jonny Enemy. Trap based and very often had 3 thieves up through TG and Ambush.

Shouldn’t have gotten many points because I wasn’t roaming – just holding a point but they kept coming.

Can hold vs 2 for ever… vs 3 for a long time and can annoy 4 for a while. If you pick on someone relentlessly you can get them down.

Weapons: P/D primary… D/D secondary (I just prefer it for mobility and conditions than the SB).

DA: 25 – Corrosive Traps, Potent Poison. Mainly DA for the 25% cond duration.
SA: 30 – Shadow Rejuv, Infusion of Shadow, Shadow’s Embrace
Acro: 15 – Master Trapper

Skills: Withdraw, Ambush, Needle Trap, Caltrops, TG

Runes: Dwayna.
Sigils: Agony and anything else really
Amulet: Shaman

Power: 1,166
Tough: 2,139
Vitality: 1,066

Armor: 3.2k
Health 12.3k
Healing: 1.1k

I’ll post a vid at some point – but it only shows how it can hold a point for absurdly long times. I was just running it as a normal D/P but dropping traps a lot and using the insane amount of healing it has in the build. Out of the 10 or so bouts played I actually topped 3 or so but I have no idea how… I guess the point I was on occilates between neutral and ours so often as you fight the waves of bad guys. My team I think won every time though due to always having one guaranteed point capped. It’s easy enough to fight anywhere with it though but it’s sloooowwww to kill so I found the points came to me whan I stayed put.

The nemesis is of course the burst thief with everything up when you don’t see them creeping up… but that was like once or twice. When you saw em coming they flopped.

I won’t stay on the build long.. but it was a surprising holiday from the sword heavy stuff I have been doing.

Quick vid I posted below: http://youtu.be/C0c2U0ZZOTA

Eviator.9746:

Oh my goodness. Never EVER try a necro, engineer, or ranger. In comparison the thief is a beast!

Hmmm my ranger is stunningly better at PvE than my thief. Both level 80.

PvP and WvW mileage differ. Don’t change anything in PvP thanks… folks in there already do well vs thieves. I was on ranger most of the evening yesterday and harvested the poor kittens for hours.

Incurafy.6329:

stone cold.8609:

Thanks for the fast replies! So around 11k for Beserkers, and12-13k for Valks. I currently run Soldiers with around 15k FWIW.

11k sure isn’t alot. Not alot of room for mistakes there. Is the increase in damage that noticable to make this trade off worth it? I’ve never run GC builds before, so I am curious.

Uhhh, no, it’s 14,095 health with full Berserker armour and jewellery without any additional vitality from traits/etc.

Just sayin’… because I’m pretty sure that was already mentioned.

That is only in sPvP where the zerk jewel has vit on it. In WvW it’s 10 or 11k.

Culling is doing his job for him. It’ll get fixed.

Not sure what your PvP concern is… there ARE plenty of thieves… and mesmers… and D/D eles in PvP at the moment. Just get stuck in and fight. Those thieves aren’t P/D.

Fun vid and fun vid thread Vante Win/Win !

Rayya.2591:

ZLE.8293:

Ah so you are a thief. Pistol offhand maybe?….Well i have a news for you:C&D isn’t going anywhere so better learn to deal with it!

no dude, i use D/D / shortbow , i expressed my oppinion regarding this skill , my 2 cents if goes anywhere or stay
But the fact is atm in 1 vs 1 is near imposible to lose if you use C &D correctly with thief.

I’m not trying to stoke a fire that isn’t there… but most class boards have folks who say they cannot lose 1v1. necro, Mesmer, Ele, Warrior, Guardian. I support your ’ near impossible to lose’ statement if you mean you can just reset the fight if it is not going your way… but the other guy can prevent you from winning simply by negating C&D if that’s your primary offense ticket.

It’s a cornerstone of several builds play so care has to be taken with adjusting it… heals, conditions, burst all rely pretty heavily on it at times.

Thanks for the perspective Lockon, appreciate it. I don’t do PvE so have no idea… you mean tanky warriors and bunker guardians right? They are a challenge no matter what you’re on I have fought plenty on P/D but only GC versions of them so far 1v1 on this build… and anything GC is an easy drop.

D/D eles should win… but weirdly I haven’t lost a 1v1 against one yet. They should beat pretty much anything though… I play one in PvP.

Here is a quick video montage showing the build: http://youtu.be/nD0oOM-bLqU

First fight shows the weapons rotation in it’s simplest form as the thief dies to the inital burst. Infil Strike → Steal → Quickness fires so Pistol Whip → switch to D/D and finish up

Second fight, same thief but she survives the inital attack and we get to duke it out a bit.

Necro next.

Mesmer next.

Different Mesmer next.

Small ruck in clock tower.

A different thief fight where I got everything wrong It was very early in me trying the build and I managed to Pistol Whip thin air and also somehow think I was D/D near the end but wasn’t so instead of heartseeking to end it I chipped away at him with infil strike haha.

I don’t have a team… played other games in regular premades for ten years though.

Love the hotjoin sPvP… I just do. It’s fllippin pandemonium in there and non stop mash-up. Great stress relief.

If they add solo (and ideally a duo as there is usually one other person around who’d like to duo) queuing for tournaments, I would be playing those all the time… sounds like great fun.

Try a trap Ranger. I was with a guy in a few hotjoins yesterday who was trying out the Ranger for the first time in PvP and he could NOT stop posting in /team about how much fun he was having and how amazing the class/spec was. In a 2v2 bout I just sat out the way and watched him own the zone. He was giddy.

Edit: I played Ranger through a lot of Rabbit actually also and had riotous fun with it.

Like Dee Jay said… run at em. Then it depends what build you are. I am on Sword mainhand at the moment so I drop an untargeted infiltrator’s strike as I run in and if I fail my dodge I shadow return.

On P/D I always had a stun break and caltrops on dodge.

Blimm, are you talking PvP or WvW? If PvP then you will see less and less over time.

I’ll try and answer as much as pOssible.

After 20 or so more hours I have actually settled on S/P rather than S/D. Reason being is that I was getting all the C&D I needed from the daggers in the second set and Pistol Whip was actually pretty useful (situationally of course).

I’ve had duels with Mesmer, thieves of all sorts, warriors and necros and not lost any… But also not won a few as I needed to reset out after screwing something up. I’m going to video some fights and post sometime this week but I love the damage and survivability.

Ok so someone questioned C&D repeat usage… It is only handy in pvp if your other stealth skills are down and you want to sit amongst the other team. In WvW it can kill, but is boring.

I’ve changed practiced tolerance to the trait that grants 10% chance to grant quickness on a crit and it pretty much happens every 30s and it’s usually when I then hit Whip to capitalise on it.

Sigils are Air and Force on both sets for the lightening strikes and 5% damage in PvP and perception and force in WvW.

Acronyms are hide in shadows (HiS) and Sigil of Assassination(SoA).

I’ve put in a lot more PvP than WvW in testing how well I tune into it but I am now totally hooked… I was loving P/D and this was just a break but it is far more versatile and fun. There is far less I have to reset with this setup and really when anything gets into sub 50% territory it is over very fast. Quickness always goes off early so if Whip lands hard then it’s a very quick fight.

That’s what I use on my condition builds in WvW.

Good colour choice for fighting in the snow

Good play!

Size does matter.

Always play the small race.

Letting Crippling Strike play out does look very init friendly.

I found that I needed a bunch of C&D when there were lots of enemy there though (hence my heavy investment in init regen)… the blink-stabbing worked out better for me than the infil strike… but when fighting just one or two I’ll use auto more.

Thanks for the replies guys.

Got bored last night so played around with a very high crit damage and high stealth build in PvP and WvW and had a laugh with it. I am sure most have played with similar, I did enjoy it… it’s not supposed to be optimised.

Weapons: D/D + S/D

Traits:
Deadly Arts: 10 (Mug)
Crit Strikes: 30 (Side Strike, Practiced Tolerance and Executioner)
Shadow Arts: 30 (Infusion of Shadow, Patience and Rejuv – all because this is an infinite C&D tactics build)

Runes:
PvP: Divinity
WvW: Scholar (mainly as you stay above 90% health as you abuse C&D with regen in stealth)

WvW stats (with condition food and Signet of Agility):
Attack 3.3k
Armour 2.3k
Power 2.3k
Precision 1.9k
Tough 1.2k
Citality 1.2k

Crit chance 50% (I was using perception sigil so this ended up around 62% after 25 kills)
Crit damage 109

HP 14k

Armour: All Valk armour, All Zerk weapons and trinkets.

Skills: I was running lots of heals and stealth help (HiS, refuge, blinding powder and SoA)

WvW Tactics:
Don’t burst at the start… burst when they hit 50% and think you aren’t too much of a problem.

C&D and Mug into pack of baddies… choose your target and avoid reveal debuff by hitting C&D, count to 4, hit C&D so you stay in stealth and bang HP off the chap for a few rounds then burst him with sword or BS for fast finish.

Lots of stealth, regen and heals available so very recoverable even if they catch you with your pants down and you crit often and bloody hard with that 109 crit damage.

Had a few 1v1’s and they can’t even escape when they know what is going on… sword and steal closes big gaps.

Supply camp turnovers are very relaxing and attract those small fights that are more fun.

PvP Strategy:
Aside from the usual team on team smash fest I had a bunch of duels with a good mesmer while I was getting accustomed to the build and we left the bouts with him just 1 up at the end which I was happy about bearing in mind it was a rusty start.

No C&D abuse in here as folks are too robust for it to really bother them over time and have good heals… I was just playing high crit S/D and D/D as you expect but with loads of survivability from the regen/heals and tons of access to stealth. Rarely died and was able to burn down most folks.

Like I said – it was nothing other than a bit of fun but I enjoyed it so much I’m keeping it for a while (I’m usually P/D so was a nice fusion of the safety of */D with some big hits on top).

Wrote this a few days ago in another thread and it gets lost:

I would love to have this skill central to assassination – pull suitable target out to back row and perform murderous intent. Problem is that it works 50% of the time… not due to legitimate stuff like blocks and dodges, but because it just doesn’t work 50% of the time.

In testing in PvP last night I ended up throwing the wire out 60 times.

7 blocks (legit).
7 fails due to enemy state (I think stability is overriding the wire effect which is fine – legit).
4 dodges (legit).
9 obstructions that weren’t there. There was nothing there… (not legit).
11 inexplicable failures – wire goes out… hits guy with no special boons up… nothing happens.
6 partial successes. Either me and the target meet in the middle or we almost meet but he is not quite in melee range after the wire pull so I can’t hit him until I close a bit.
16 complete successes.

The failure rate is too high on the ‘unexplained’ front. Dodges blocks and stability are fair game… but from my testing there is a larrrrrrrge area of failures that have no discernible reason.

Agree – it could be a very tasty assassination tool… but is failtastic.

Wrote this a few days ago in another thread and it gets lost:

I would love to have this skill central to assassination – pull suitable target out to back row and perform murderous intent. Problem is that it works 50% of the time… not due to legitimate stuff like blocks and dodges, but because it just doesn’t work 50% of the time.

In testing in PvP last night I ended up throwing the wire out 60 times.

7 blocks (legit).
7 fails due to enemy state (I think stability is overriding the wire effect which is fine – legit).
4 dodges (legit).
9 obstructions that weren’t there. There was nothing there… (not legit).
11 inexplicable failures – wire goes out… hits guy with no special boons up… nothing happens.
6 partial successes. Either me and the target meet in the middle or we almost meet but he is not quite in melee range after the wire pull so I can’t hit him until I close a bit.
16 complete successes.

The failure rate is too high on the ‘unexplained’ front. Dodges blocks and stability are fair game… but from my testing there is a larrrrrrrge area of failures that have no discernible reason.

“Seriously ranger is a free kill for a thief. You’ve a BS build – you shoulddrop him in 2s – if you’re really that bad and can’t press 3 buttons restealth, back off and come back again in 10s and finish the job.”

As a Ranger and Thief player at level 80 – you should never be able to BS a ranger – too many traits and abilities designed to either auto-counter a BS attack or leave it up to one button press. A lot of the rhetoric on the Ranger forums is good rangers who love getting free badges and glory from GC thieves.

Personally I don’t have too many probs with them because I know how to get them to burn their defenses… and if I am on P/D then they never get to win as the pet is a liability… but GC thieves should be pretty containable for a ranger.

Scorpion wire to be fixed please.

I would love to have this skill central to assassination – pull suitable target out to back row and perform murderous intent. Problem is that it works 50% of the time… not due to legitimate stuff like blocks and dodges, but because it just doesn’t work 50% of the time.

In testing in PvP last night I ended up throwing the wire out 60 times.

7 blocks (legit).
7 fails due to enemy state (I think stability is overriding the wire effect which is fine – legit).
4 dodges (legit).
9 obstructions that weren’t there. There was nothing there… (not legit).
11 inexplicable failures – wire goes out… hits guy with no special boons up… nothing happens.
6 partial successes. Either me and the target meet in the middle or we almost meet but he is not quite in melee range after the wire pull so I can’t hit him until I close a bit.
16 complete successes.

The failure rate is too high on the ‘unexplained’ front. Dodges blocks and stability are fair game… but from my testing there is a larrrrrrrge area of failures that have no discernible reason.

If this request gets lost I may have to start a thread on it.

He’s saying don’t bother. I tend to agree with him. SB’s are great in zerg vs zerg and getting around. Thief as a zerg member isn’t really where the class shines and you can get around via other means so… most folks carry the SB as a secondary utility tool.

Try both at once. These are the sets I am currently running in sPvP. Open with S/P and finish or escape with D/D (I actually prefer cleared target Heart-Seeking leaps to SB #5 as an escape as it is far less exhausting on initiative).

AryasRevenge.3175:

So lately ive seen alot of people going thief in wvw and spvp, it wouldnt bother me if we could acctually fight them.

Ive never played thief before so i dont know their skills at all but how long does the invisibility skill/s last and why can they attack while invisible and not lose the boon?

Seriously the only thing i can do is lay down aoe and hope his keyboard breaks down while he coross one, if that doesnt work i get a bunch of hits coming out of nowhere and bang im downed.

I know im gonna be choked here by all those who take advantage of this class, but be hones this deserve a look into it.

Go ask the rangers, guardians and mesmers having no problems with thieves on their forums… plenty of them there. But it sounds like your biggest issue is a terrible PC because the culling issue alone doesn’t explain 6 seconds of invisibility whilst being hit. I take everyone’s word for it there is a culling issue and I can see it some YouTube vids… but I’ve never seen it myself in WvW because I solo rather than zerg. In PvP it’s a non issue.

I was using something close to this set yesterday (S/P though and D/D) in PvP but working it the other way round… Backstab rotation → Infil’s strike → Pistol whip.

Was very effective.