Guild Wars 2

They can fix d/d eles easily, they’re not dumb. Return RTL cooldown to its original state (keeping he reduced range) and restore the stunbreaker to our teleport. Also keep our inability to heal in mistform, good nerf. But that still kills tpvp. Can’t have that, folks.

For example when you look objectively at the d/d skills, keeping in mind the low hp/armor, you KNOW that the guy who designed the class meant for d/d users to move in- and out of combat using RTL. It would be silly to dispute that. That this would make them overpowered in a point-capture scenario is something that was realized too late. But in the wide open spaces of wvw or in a 1-on-1 fight we need our class to be how it was intended all along.

Well I did go and made a warrior, insta-leveled to 20 with some thing i had in my bank, used 80 skillpoint items for utilities, got level 20 white gear and went into wvw. 4x signets obviously, because I hadn’t played it at all and didn’t feel like learning 4 utilities too.

In a nutshell : IGNORANCE IS BLISS!!!!!!!!!!!!

I wish i never did this. This 5-minutes-old character was VERY close to my elementalist in the best gear available. He out-heals my ele even. It feels like enjoying your toy train until you see the new XBOX 1080 that the kid next door just got.

For those that think I shouldn’t moan, here is proper scientific research about the need for proper rewards : http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=HL45pVdsRvE

Now when you are done laughing at animal abuse, tell that monkey that gets the cucumber he shouldn’t moan. He should still be pleased with it, right? We are fundamentally not wired that way. This video also does wonders during pay negotiations with your boss

DiogoSilva.7089:

A s/d ele with the new conjure axe will be able to get about 24+ stacks of AOE might without party support.

Dragon’s Tooth (x3) -> Ring of Fire -> Phoenix (x6) -> Arcane Wave (x9) -> Earthquake (x12) -> Earth dodge (x15) -> Churning Earth (x18) -> Axe’s Ring of Fire -> Axe’s second skill (x21) -> Axe’s second skill 5 seconds after, on the RoF if it still exists, or on burning retreat (x24). And 50s of aoe fury, of course (not more because of the upcoming stack duration limit).

Hello, +875 Power and Condition Damage while playing solo. Without sigil of battle. Without might traits. Feel free to use any other sigil with sigil of force. Bloodlust, maybe? Sigil of Energy, for far more defense? Maybe Sigil of Hydromancy for some extra burst. Better than sigil of fire, in my opinion.

You might want to consider that after that godly combo, half of your spells are on cooldown and whatever you meant to attack fell asleep.

A qq thread about burst in the warrior forum

Heavy armor + high hp = the best profession at taking damage.

Did any one you complainers even consider how much light armor / low hp classes would get hit for?

saratoga.4872:

…………defending does need to be addressed so that the benefits are comparable AT LEAST to those you gain as the attacker.

That is harder to implement than it sounds. What is stopping people from running into the nearest building under attack and going afk? When does a player contribute enough? How do you measure it?

When you add a check that tests if a defender attacks other players then how much damage is enough?

People will find ways to abuse a reward system with cracks in it. A human being can glance at a fight and see who contributes. But i have never seen a game be any good at it.

Now that the meta is all about numbers, the smart thing to do is to make a character that is good at not dying and tagging lots of enemies.

I noticed a few things during major lag:

-I get about 2x more loot on my guardian (staff) than my elementalist, and about3x more loot than my ranger.
-An elementalist’s switch to a different attunement is just as affected by lag as a cast. Making them almost twice a susceptible to lag as others.
-Staying in tight groups during heavy lag seems more effective, suggesting defensive boons are less affected than offence.
-Ground aoe circles do NOT register all hits that they should.
-Light armor classes die young, if they are not careful. If they ARE careful, they take more damage from retribution than anything else.
-Projectiles often miss or give out of range when they shouldn’t.
-It does not matter how much damage you do as long as your PARTY does enough to tag an enemy, all you need to do is hit it once.
-spells that hit through walls

So for me it’s kinda easy : log my guardian for lag fests and be in a party. There are no drawbacks I have found so far.

So what other classes / weapons / build are good at tagging?

Here is my experience with the 4 classes i play when it comes to lootbags per minute:

Bad during lag fest : thief, ranger
Reasonable during lag fest : elementalist (d/d is surprisingly better than staff, because ground aoe’s do not register correctly)
Good during lag fest : guardian. (especially staff/gs)

It is becoming a bigger problem now that everyone runs a guardian in wvw. Ironically it will chase away more staff eles who…..usually become guardian. Like me. Further enhancing the problem.

Earlier today I killed myself yet again through retaliation (ele). By the time I finish my aoe combo, it barely has started damaging! So there is nothing to stop me from losing my hp. I am sick of cancelling meteor showers. It seems so unfair that the guys hurting me usually arent even aware that they do! Add to that that in order to even pull off the combo I need to stand still on top of a wall for about 5 seconds, use stability to finish it or die. So retal is not eating up my 15k hp (so NOT glass cannon), but whatever hp i have left at that point. I shouldn’t have to mistform or even use my heal skill for doing aoe on a door from the inside, that is silly.

Search this forum for daphoenix’s thread.

What works for me (I think this is quite main-stream and should work for most people):

0/10/0/30/30, air 1, water 3/5/11, arcana 5/8/11
Power/Vitality/Toughness gear 4xDivinity runes, 2x Water (some get 2x Monk).
Berzerker jewelry. PVT back with healing gem. This leaves you with 18k hp, 2200 armor, 3k attack, 31% crit chance (63% crit dmg), 450 healing power.

Also:

Depends on your role and how big the group is you are running with.

By default I use staff. But recently I am on a high population server where staff truly shines. I could never be this effective on my old server where the largest group i’d ever meet was about 10-15 people. Staff eles can tear blobs apart and be possibly the most effective class in a blob vs blob scenario. Sometimes I make sure my HP is >21k in order not to become a rallybot when I must follow a commander into hell, by switching my staff and jewelry to PVT+healing gem.

For (soloing) camps I always switch to daggers because I am better with them.

Anyhow, the x/x/x/30/30 build will make anyone near you a lot stronger. Much like a guardian.

“Well currently yes, but I doubt we’ll be weak damage *forever , right? Anet will fix stuff eventually.”

Actually….

It was not acknowledged for months that thieves being permanently invisible was a problem at all. When the announcement to fix culling finally came, it still took months of work to get things sorted.

I have never seen even a hint that eles are being tweaked. The nerf was announced far in advance.

What might seem obvious to most people can sometimes get lost in a corporate setting with arguments, counter-arguments, strong personalities and weak ones, that sort of thing.

I imagine the ‘anet balance team’ (do game companies even HAVE those?) with a very big loud talking guy as the thief-man, an intimidating ruthless warrior-guy who won’t take no for an answer, a quiet but firm ranger-person, a necro representative who just came out of the closet and an empty chair behind the elementalist sign.

Hehe i like it.

tease =/= troll

Eles can’t go full zerker in pvp. I don’t know why, but i am sure anet has a philosophy behind it. As far as I know, this is how the game is meant to be.

In full zerker gear and no armor you WILL die on the first salvo against experienced players if you let them. Rapid fire will do it, clusterbombs, a good shatter, you name it. In the thief scenario he will outright kill you from stealth. 11k hp does not go a long way.

Gear is more important to low eles than the other classes i played. Get your hp and armor up as much as you need. You can go less tanky later on.

As I noticed going back to low lands for map completion, some mobs will still 2-shot you at 80 if you are wearing full berserkers. As glass cannon, some veterans in level 15-20 areas are the most dangerous veterans in the whole game.

yes, terrible skill lag but i can see everybody moving okay ( i think ), then it will do all skills at once. Then disconnected. This usually lasts for hours.

This is new for me, didnt have it until a few weeks ago. I was pinging while playing to rule out it is my internet.

Why does someone who is bothered by forum QQ about the ele put “Bring back D/D” in his tag?

You are not genuine.

LightningBlaze.4913:

The same phrase over and over again “having the lowest armor and heath in the game”.. It gets old to see players using this same excuse to justify why they are performing poorly with the profession.

Did you miss the part where when you lose all your health you die?

Death is bad. Life is good! okay?

One-shots might be bad design, but at least they’re fair across all classes.

A traditional tough bossfight where the boss does big hits favors heavy armor high hp classes. Favors the tank so to speak. We don’t have trinity but we still have trinity :0

Since you really don’t understand what the OP is saying I will explain it for you : He refers to attacker advantage being unrealistic : in the mesmer case you can get pulled off a wall but you cant drag an enemy ON the wall. And he’s right.

I lost my trusty 480gtx last week, 1 day BEFORE the patch

I really loved the old beast. It was still quite fast and nowhere near the end of its life-span. Sometimes stuff just breaks, it sucks.

I replaced it with a lower-mid-range card, radeon 7770 which is way slower but acceptable for gw2 and 1/5 of the price of my old card. It won’t play everything on max settings but it sure is good value for money.

Defending is soooo 2012.

You are right, walls are a death trap instead of an advantage. Targeting is a problem, targeting is extra easy for the attackers, you can get pulled down, but not the other way around, you can’t move freely, dodging is risky, siege weapons get destroyed.

With a list like that, it’s intentional i think. Defending SHOULD be impossible or the 3-minute-attention-span crowd loses interest.

Pfft get off their case! Xaoc has been nothing but a good, strong, solid backbone in Blacktide’s glory days. They (we) were a well-run guild, good commanders and lots of behind-the-scene communication without cluttering the map chat. Good to see you back.

I have this friend who loved ganking in Warcraft. He’d be at it for hours. His motto was : why play pve? NPC’s don’t care if you kill em!

I think that is the mindset of griefers. Rest assured that his behavior spilled over in real life. He actually IS a bit of a kitten but only if he can get away with it.
It says a lot about your character if you find pleasure in other people’s grief. Especially in an anonymous game. I just think of him when there’s someone laughing over my corpse. And I learnt not to get wound up even the slightest.

That would be amazing! looking forward to it

I think that people will get better and better at using culling. Until it becomes the major tactic. Already we see the tanky thieves cleverly using themselves as bait, wasting time of entire zergs. Portal bombs, group cloaking etc. are far more effective than they should be. It is not exploiting but simply the smart thing to do. We have all been there : you rush into a crowd with your zerg, everybody unleashes all cooldowns and 10 seconds later you start seeing you were actually outmanned and theres a dozen people dead on the floor you never even saw. Or you ended up on the receiving end of course.

Once this gets the upper hand (and it looks like it will) then it is time to take a long break, which is actually fine with me. If they need more time to fix culling, they need more time. GW2 is a bargain in my opinion (no monthly fees) and I put hundreds of hours into the game. They will HAVE to fix culling before they can release an expansion anyway.

I don’t have thief but here’s the answers you are going to get. ALL were copied from this forum.

1) make a thief. that is, if you have a free slot available. If not, your fault.
2) learn to anticipate : always keep an eye out for vanishing people. Even if there are 10 enemies around, always assume that YOU are the target. So get that protection up! Of course with more (friendly)players or multiple thieves around all this goes down the drain but, well, tough luck. You should have ran away as soon as you saw the thief stealth.
3)Then assume the thief will be going for your back. So you either put an aoe field there or swing your weapon at empty air. This will take at least 1/2 of you foe’s hp unless you are such a baddy that you wrongly guessed where the thief was. Then again, your fault. If somehow you did not half kill him, you are specced wrong. Because thieves are the weakest class!
4) do NOT spec glass cannon. only thieves are allowed that, and when you still do it anyways, don’t come qq-ing here. It’s your own fault!

I hope this settled all questions you might have.

What a rare insight into the mind of internet trolls. I should make notes here!

Flaming on a forum is like not washing yourself. You do it not necessarily to harm others but they have to sit in your stench anyways. OF COURSE normal people get protected from trolls by banning them jeeez.

Most interesting is that the majority of trolls all seem to come from a single country, as others have also mentioned.

Yeah it is! Thats why I am asking what to do

They are not visible long enough for me to finish the stomp. Even when they relocate in my stomp range, and i am hammering ‘f’, about 50% of the cases the stomp doesn’t finish in time. Sometimes I have 5 failed stomps so they get up again. And then the next thief dies from the first (or second) stomp as he should. It is very confusing and I don’t know how they do it.

PS. I can’t make a thief myself since all my slots are filled.

So this is how this rogue keeps destroying our empty golems in SM.

Notice how his enemies KNEW within 3 ft where he was and still could not stop him. Totally fair. I think the solution will be to nerf aoe!

20 bags from a single aoe eh? I thought 1 aoe could only hit 5 people…

Yes, the percentage is files downloaded divided by total number of files.
Or thats how it looks anyway.

Patch size is in fact : 1130 MB

It is indeed about time elementalist doesnt feel so glitchy anymore in a pve scenario:

We’re pretty good tanks but only when locked into a certain build.

I don’t think anet realises how disruptive magnetic grasp bug is to some players. That particular bug gets fixed and magically reappears the next patch.

You can’t really do a 10-minute solo fight in an instance or vs a champion, since either the mob gets his health back (especially using staff), or you get stuck into a magnetic grasp. Either may kill you without making a single mistake. Not very noticable in pvp / questing, but when trying something hard it chews away your pleasure to have your fate decided by stuff not bugging out.
Also, for even a glass canon ele, to get oneshot in a level 65 zone in full exotic gear shows how glitchy the character is. The game was not meant for a player with a 10k health pool. Eating an omnomberry food making far too much difference kinda shows how dependent this profession is on little things.

It feels like I ABUSE cantrips / boons, the famous 0-10-10-30-20 build and the tanky healing gear with boon duration runes. It feels very overpowered. But whenever I experiment, be it different gear or different spec, the survivability drops to dangerous levels. I wish I could experiment more. I fear the day a-net bring the boons to a more reasonable level. What would be left will not be worth playing.

No beating around the bush there. As open a response as we could have hoped for. Much appreciated.

“they are supposed to kill the enemies easily. That’s just how the profession works.”

This point of view is so blatantly unreasonable that I hadn’t considered it before. In a sentence and a half you made me understand the reluctance of thieves to face up to reality.

Good video! It really says it all.

Some still argue you are slow or should have somehow checked out all 4 enemies whether they happened to be a GC thief.

Cognitive dissonance. We all suffer from it! Let’s reject the obvious because… well, just because!

Nice thread!

I run with 4 x divinity + 2 x water. In my opinion, the optimal ‘filler’ rune would be divinity. The idea being eles need every stat, and when I switch trinkets to berserker (whenever i go staff), having big crits is nice.

Expensive, though!

ZLE.8293:

Runcore.5107:

Cornholio.1567:

Seems this thread is becoming more of a QQ from people who hate thiefs rather than thiefs giving feedback on the class :P

And what can you expect from crying kids who dont know play their class. They was defeated by some thief and now need to cry here on forum and hope that Anet nerf thief so they can kill thief more easily with their poor play style. I dont know why they created this topic here. They should have known that it become QQ topic instead of feedback on the class. Thief IS NOT OP omg, kids!!!!

Actually it was created exactly with that purpose.To concentrate all the QQ/anti-QQ fiesta in one mega-topic.It doesn’t work thou.There will always be some guy,who feels he need special attention,or that he have something revolutionary important to say,so it deserves a fresh topic.

The biggest issue in wvwvw is the burst + stealth + culling issue and that is a bug, getting thieves unfairly treated by people who got unfairly killed by something they never even saw. Because there is no dedicated thread on the wvwvw page on the culling issue anymore, players who fall victim to it, come here.

There should be 2 threads : one for making suggestions about the rogue class and balance issues, and one “stealth + burst + culling bug = problem” on the wvwvw page. Else this thread will grow to 50 pages and people will keep asking for unwarranted nerfs (because they only play wvwvw, never s-pvp) and be replied to with : l2p

I agree that it is very powerful. Obviously every class has an edge while fighting near a gate, but mistform reduces the risk dramatically.

That is why I switch to staff when i am alone defending or there are no arrow carts around , and go daggers as soon as i see a manned cart. Look for small packs while on top of the wall, RTL / updraft them, unleash all cooldowns in fire, switch to water and get within about 800 range of the door. If things get hairy, teleport / armor.

I think it’s the confusion plus the knockback that makes it so effective. If the professions were more balanced than they are, i’d say nerf it, it is unfair.

Interesting how the thief is probably GC, yet the mesmer is called a nub for

a) also being GC,
b) not speccing to counter GC
c) is alone vs a GC

So yeah ! That mesmer was really asking for that 17k and it’s totally not game-breaking that the rogue can do that sort of damage. From stealth.

Same for Dwayna btw.

So discouraging. This is a classic stale-mate situation : thieves percieve this thread as a place to ask for buffs, while their victims see this as a place to see if there are other people getting killed in 2 seconds from stealth. All in one thread. Now THAT will leave the second group unsatisfied won’t it? It will even get on the nerves of the first group.

“First fix culling, THEN see if thieves still need fixing” only works if it CAN be fixed within a reasonable time-frame, which everyone doubts more and more every day. The alternative is people insta-killing squishies for months to come.

I am not sure putting a muzzle on people with a dump thread is the way to go forward.

“Feedback about the thief and its gameplay” isn’t that what the forum is for??? Now it has changed into : got something positive to say? Use the forum! Everything not positive? Use the dump thread so we can safely ignore it.

Edenknight said it all. No wonder people doubt scientists. Very disheartening how badly statistics are understood.

“This is a video game, not everyone has the same sense of loyalty attached to animated pixels as you do. Not everyone is concerned with making internet friends and not everyone cares if you hate them.
Transferring to the server with the superior numbers does get you tangible rewards, it gets you karma, experience, gold, and badges accompanied with a better playing experience than you’d receive if you were losing. The only drawback is that you may receive the ire of a half-naked sylvari, hardly a drawback.”

Just : WOW! That logic usually comes from cheaters in online fps games. The drawback for me would be that, being in a top server would not provide a sense of victory anymore if i just joined them. Any victory would be fake. Like stealing from the bank in monopoly. It is not about how others see it. It is about YOU and how you behave. But I don’t think that is ‘tangible’ enough for you.

Unlike real-life, in gw2 being on top of a wall is not an advantage. A caster’s perspective.

There is simply less wall than floor:
-Every spot of a tower front wall can be covered permanently by 3 ranged AoE players.
-You are more vulnerable because walls limit your movement and mistakes can make you fall off.
-Enemy AoE fields can be put on the side of the wall. Which is faster to do but provides the same range.

Then there is the ledge around the walls, presumably to stop you from falling off.
But i would rather not have it.
-The little ledge breaks line of sight even when the target is clearly visible. Walking right up to it, it eats away a good chunk of your view cone, right where you need to aim.
-To hit something near the base of the tower/keep you must (not always) jump on top of the ledge, which is waaay trickier than the attacker who can just move in- and out of range.

I am sure there’s more.

How about a +range buff inside a castle or, if possible, just on top of walls? 10% extra range makes defending more pleasurable and the game more realistic.

“OP, you are obviously lacking toughness. I don’t see how a thief can hit that hard, even full glass, and you can survive all that damage?”

I know! It sounds unbelievable! Unfair isn’t it? Yet it happens all the time to tank elementalists. Such is the life of the one class with light armor AND low HP.

The numbers add up. If you get full pvp gear AND spec into earth, with cnd trinkets (that have vit, no armor) then you are very very tanky (defensive stats on everything). Yet, you get killed with these numbers regularly. From stealth, within seconds.

Eles CAN hit for 7-8k lets also be fair the other way around. Churning Earth as glass cannon ele can hit well over 10k when certain conditions are met.

Red Falcon.8257:

I think thief is in a balanced position in PvP now, but maybe somewhat weaker than it should in PvE.

@Frye
All glass cannons except Necros can total 12k+ dmg in 3 skills / 2-3sec.
Glass Eles totals 12k with Burning speed -> Fire grab -> Arcane Wave.
Glass Ranger hits for 12-15k in 2.5s with frenzied Rapid Fire.
Glass Warrior hits for 20k frenzy-bull-HB, 15k Killshot, 8-10k Volley.
Glass Mesmer hits for 18k with shatter.
Glass Engi totals 15-20k with that grenade combo thing.

Dude….get real! none of those can’t be avoided!

You are conveniently forgetting the stealth thing : you get the first hit, always. Like I said : against the others our glass ele at least has a chance. That still stands, even if other professions could also oneshot him.

In other words : thieves prevent other classes from also going glass cannon. Thats the problem.

Over and over have I read thieves saying : if you’re getting hit for 8k, get better gear!

Imagine an elementalist with full berserker gear. Pure glass cannon. He would probably have less than 12k hp and about 1100 armor. Not a good idea, but this is theory-crafting.

How would he fight a thief unleashing from stealth? He WILL be hit for all his hp within the first second.

If the answer is : just don’t do it, then why can thieves? And, more importantly, why is it JUST thieves stopping people from going full glass cannon? Against ALL OTHER classes you would stand at least a chance.

Basically my bunker build (PowVitTough-gear + healing/condition trinkets, spec 0/10/30/30/0 (dagger/dagger) 17.5k HP/2800armor) doesnt deliver the defense to survive burst long enough. It definitely did pre-patch, even a little too well, so a slight nerf was warranted. But now things have gotten a lot harder. I feel I am not doing enough damage in the time I have before I die. And, mostly against glass cannons, the self-healing doesn’t cut it. So I ain’t killing em quick enough.

So the question is : get berserker trinkets to up my dps or even some berserker gear to end the fight faster? Forget about a 0/10/30/30/0 spec altogether? Or the other way around : get more healing gear?

Any suggestions would be cool.

I think D/D plays very well. It has a great flow to it, especially now that rtl and magnetic grasp have been improved (but still not perfect). So daggers are fine imo.

And thats a great thing! If you agree that daggers are now pretty good, then you have 20 working moves at your disposal, no matter how good or bad the rest of the weapons are.

As for the other weapons, I don’t play them much but the evasive arcana ‘bug’ seemed like an amazing playstyle. Rolling through your own fields for combos, how cool is that? And now they lost it. I think those are the disappointed posters on here.

The healing had to go down though.

Joriel.1530:
For those major guilds who dont like RUIN on blacktide its easy to handle it, just go back to far shiverpeaks, desolation, or any other lower tier server.

Now there lies the problem! Even that won’t work.
Imagine a guild of brave people who are all after a challenge, that willingly downgrade themselves to a lower tier to work themselves up from there.

A week before they actually do it, they will be joined by the very same people they killed a few days earlier. Standing next to them cheering loudest.

( Wanna add i had a great week few weeks in wvwvw, really enjoyed it a lot. I just hope it stays that way )

Riiiiight……Achilles. If you had no trouble at all leveling then all setups work out for you.
So why ask him for his? Or did you spec into an armor/vitality build without ever dieing? What was the reason for doing so?

Far more likely is, that he’s full of it. And he did die just as much as all of us.

Respawns at low health will get anyone and can’t be avoided at all times. Double knockdowns kiling you before you get control back aswell. One single missed dodge of a catapult WILL kill you, if you are unlucky enough.
I got one-shot by a mob two levels higher than me at around level 50.

How likely is it, that all that never happened to demi-god Achilles here?

Anyways. Things will improve as you go up, especially from about 60 upwards. Especially storyline quests get easier, because the npc’s will actually tank for you.