Guild Wars 2

Tomorrow they go up to 5.

Good post, good points.

Olvendred.3027:

The reason Anet’s original policy of announcing what they were working on backfired… is that they announced about 2 things every six months… as if those things were close to completion. Hell, they even put “by the end of this year” as an estimate. And then said nothing more until very strongly pressed months into the next year.

If something is being worked on, but is in a sufficiently preliminary stage of development as to be iffy, then an announcement that says precisely that would generate significantly lesser levels of expectation. If something is announced as being worked on and then scrapped, a note to that effect in the next announcement (or reasonably soon, anyway) would stop people from wondering about it (which would have fixed most of the angst about precursor crafting, for instance).

Make announcements honestly and in a relatively low-key way, and players will respond well, even if the developments don’t come to fruition. Imo. I could be wrong.

I think you are exactly right.

Vayne.8563:

Geikamir.6329:

Vayne.8563:

Geikamir.6329:

Worst of all is that it seems like they just don’t understand what the players actually want. They keep making the same mistakes. It’s hard to imagine that changing anytime soon, which is unfortunate.

What players actually want? All players or just players who think like you? Maybe they’re giving some players what they want.

Yeah, I did word that too matter-of-factly.

I mean, I don’t think that they know what players want. I feel I have a very common perception of the game, but I can’t know for sure.

From the look of this update, they’re giving up colored account bound commander tag, which clearly players want, better frame rate in big events, which players want, ways to shut down siege to help defend in WvW which at least some players want, tournaments, which some players want, balance changes (including some stuff at least that players want), mega server fixes for guilds which some players want, dungeon leadership changes which people have been asking for, an improved crafting UI which I want if no one else does, move value for crafters, which crafters at least want….in almost every case when players have come out against something, other players (not just me or so-called “white knights”) have come out in favor of it.

Devata, who’s been pretty negative about many aspects of the game over all posted in the thread on crafting updates and she’s happy with that improvement.

This game has all kinds of players who want all kinds of things. I’m pretty sure most players never post on the forums. I’m pretty sure Anet uses metrics of what people actually do in game to figure out what they need to do next.

The average player of an MMO wants substantial content. They want races, weapons, professions, armor, locations, housing, dungeons, and other items that feel big/important/impactful/relevant. It’s why the expansion model works so well, because it contains those things. It’s not because it’s a large chunk ever six or so months, in my opinion. Frequent updates that Arena Net does is a great idea, but it should amount to something. The worlds that get added should have meaning and reason for players to continue spending time there.

And they seem insistent upon not providing those other types of content mentioned. I can’t figure out why. If you held a poll asking players if they’d like those things I have an extremely hard time imagining that more than a small fraction would say no.

Vayne.8563:

Geikamir.6329:

Worst of all is that it seems like they just don’t understand what the players actually want. They keep making the same mistakes. It’s hard to imagine that changing anytime soon, which is unfortunate.

What players actually want? All players or just players who think like you? Maybe they’re giving some players what they want.

Yeah, I did word that too matter-of-factly.

I mean, I don’t think that they know what players want. I feel I have a very common perception of the game, but I can’t know for sure.

The reason why it was used as a reward is because it already existed in the game. Same with the Chinese back pieces we just got. That way they can spend their time on the huge amount of fulfilling content we get.

lordkrall.7241:

Geikamir.6329:

The issue is that they don’t want to make promises they can’t keep, but the question is WHY can’t they keep them?

Firstly they never actually promise anything, even if people take everything they say as promises.

As for them not keeping said non-existent promises:
Development is not just pressing a button and stuff works. It takes time and resources, and it is very unusual for it to work completely the first time around (or at all based on the concept) and as such it can take much longer than planned and/or simply not work at all.

You are arguing against a point I did not make. I know they don’t make promises. But the issue is that they don’t. Even vague timelines are better than none at all.

Worst of all is that it seems like they just don’t understand what the players actually want. They keep making the same mistakes. It’s hard to imagine that changing anytime soon, which is unfortunate.

Ilthuain.5634:

Lheimroo.2947:

Honestly, I have a hard time understanding Anet’s policy – it’s unique in this industry.

No it isn’t. It’s extremely common. You don’t talk about what you’re working on until there’s an official announcement, and even then some companies want only public relations folks to directly interact with users.

As a dev, if I visit another studio, I have to sign an NDA, even if the only thing I ever see is the break room. Publicly spilling the beans about a feature I’m working on or a future game before an official announcement would get me in some hot water.

That’s only for things under NDA. Roadmaps are a common thing to be presented to customers.

The issue is that they don’t want to make promises they can’t keep, but the question is WHY can’t they keep them? Are they that understaffed that they can’t have deadlines they have to meet? A very large majority of the playerbase with issues in their communication don’t even want hard timelines. We just want to known generally what’s in the works and roughly we can expect it.

This is extremely reasonable. The only reason why they wouldn’t do this is if they fear that the time frame is so long that players would rather try to leave and come back than try and wait it out. Which is happening anyway, except players have more frustration this way and the chances of them not returning are higher.

He’s either working on an expansion or they buried him in the back with all the other formerly good things they had going for them.

Teniz.5249:

Brian.6435:

…..
So PLEASE Arenanet make “outfits” more “pieced” and consider making a hood version to the ceremonial plate.

Don’t give them ideas!
The next armor will probably come 1 piece = 400 gems!

#Scralet armor

I’d rather have it that way, so I could buy the pieces that I like how they look.

JusticarArkiel.1564:

the frill around the neck kills the outfit for me, if i could remove that, i would get it…………..or better yet, make it an armor set so i can mix and match

This is exactly how I feel.

Those animations remind me of Gambit. Also, they are awesome.

Can we get a monkey man race please?

I think it would be really cool and fun to have more runes that have none, or hardly any, stat boosts. Runes that are only effect based, like brief invisibility or mist form from other runes. Or maybe even ones that morph you into things briefly like Norn forms, tornados, lightning storms, liches, goblins, reavers, etc.

So, does that mean that if I buy the Pirates Outfit I can use it in combat? Or does it mean that the Pirates Outfit will become a tonic to use as town clothes?

The inventory space per gold/profit is much better with gossamer than silk, for those that have very diversified investments like me.

Almost all the male hair looks so feminine to me. Combined with the really anti-masculine light armor options, my male human ele has a really hard time not looking like a drag show contestant.

Nike.2631:

There needs to be a dang check box on the chest piece like the ones on helmet/shoulders/gloves that lets you TURN OFF every scrap of the chest item that falls below the waist.

That would be amazing.

I’m willing to bet that the halloween patch will come with a new finisher. And I’m assuming it’s going to be pretty awesome.

Not against the rules, I don’t think. But it’s definitely not supported. So if you get scammed, that’s on you.

Also, please don’t spam map chat. Maybe say it ONCE. Any more than that and you’re just being a kitten.

So what all did you spend your money on? Just converting to gold or what? Because there wasn’t really a ton of things to buy in the gem store before Christmas.

Vol.5241:

$1000

Are you being serious or joking?

Thank you for the link. I have just posted in that thread as well.

I just transferred from EU to NA and am having this same issue. It’s ridiculous that this has been in the game since release and still no fix. Expecting me to match my tournament wins before getting rewarded is one of the most outlandish fixes I’ve ever heard of.

At a total of 5 wins with no chests.

I just won 2 solo queue matches and did not get the chest for either win. The first win I left the match right after we won. Since I didn’t get the chest I thought it could be because I left too soon. So the next match I stayed in until it kicked me and still no chest.

I checked my achievement tab and I did get credit for both wins.

I just changed from EU to NA as a home server (I live in America but previously had a different schedule) so that’s the only thing I can think of that would have caused this.

EDIT: Just won a 3rd consecutive match and still no chest.

Zaxares.5419:

Geikamir.6329:

Zaxares.5419:

Sooo, you think they’re hideous, but you bought 8 of them anyway in the hopes you’ll be able to sell them one day? Speculation is a double-edged sword, my friend.

I have like 6 and didn’t buy any of them.

Really? Did they drop from the Pavilion/Gauntlet farm or something? I did a moderate amount of Pavilion farming (no Gauntlet farming) and never saw any Sovereign skins.

Yeah, I got all of them from the Dead Eye farm. I did it a decent amount, but not nearly as much as some others.

Zaxares.5419:

Sooo, you think they’re hideous, but you bought 8 of them anyway in the hopes you’ll be able to sell them one day? Speculation is a double-edged sword, my friend.

I have like 6 and didn’t buy any of them.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Hell Avenger.7021:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Whats the weather like in Conspiracy Theory Land?

If the real world financial market has insider trading, this game definitely will have it. Since there is zero punishment and lack of oversight to control for this type of information being given out.

You know what it’s called when people allege a vast conspiracy and their only evidence is conjecture, circular logic and reductive reasoning?

Claiming that it doesn’t happen with incomplete knowledge is just as bad as claiming that it does happen with incomplete knowledge.

nmoral.3876:

this exists from the very begging of the game…certain alpha testers took info advantage in forging precursors based on certain weapon combination.
I was “wondering” in a recent post the same, since it is getting more obvious this information “leak”

I’ve noticed this occurrence since the beginning as well. I mean, every beta tester that knew how legendaries worked/were made of was making tons of money because they bought everything while it was cheap, because no one else knew yet. Just imagine how much crazy amount of gold will be able to be made if you knew what the recipes of future legendaries involved.

I’m not sure if they have said if they will go up in ticket cost or not yet. But if they do it will be to 5 tickets. Anyone have a source?

Ursan.7846:

Knote.2904:

In that case, give me your address and I’ll go find a dead rat and mail it to you, as a gift.

It’s free.

The difference being a dead rat has very real and serious negative consequences. The rotting smell, bad hygiene, etc.

A mini Queen Jennah and the boosters are completely harmless to you. The more apt analogy is Grandma giving you a ugly sweater. Sure you may not like it, but it’s free and it won’t harm you.

And the same problem exists. The gift giver gives more what they want to give, instead of what the receiver is likely to enjoy.

Yeah, I agree. The short story about Scarlet made her sound actually dark and menacing. In-game she’s closer to a Disney villain.

ArchonWing.9480:

You did not. So you bought a new slot expecting a mini at that time? Assuming we’re playing the same game, or the in-game information is inaccurate.

Yes I did. I at least expected a good gift if nothing else, that’s for sure.

ArchonWing.9480:

Geikamir.6329:

ArchonWing.9480:

Geikamir.6329:

ArchonWing.9480:

The intent, which of course nobody cares about such details, is to give everyone something, regardless if they have one character or 20. One can play the same amount of time and have different amounts of characters. Neither method is superior to the last, so yes, receiving the same one is fine because you don’t deserve more than other people.

Of course, let’s just ignore the birthday booster and focus on the mini. I really worry for some of you, because other things in this game, other games, and pretty much anything else is much, much harder.

I feel like what you are saying is that people that spend more shouldn’t get more. Which is odd, to say the least.

Why is it odd again? Are you more important because you spend more?

You do realize one can spend a lot on a few characters.

If I buy 2 cars and someone else buys 1 car, should we both only get 1 car?

What did you pay for the mini again? Oh wait 0.

Next.

Technically I paid 800 gems for each mini.

Next.

ArchonWing.9480:

Geikamir.6329:

ArchonWing.9480:

The intent, which of course nobody cares about such details, is to give everyone something, regardless if they have one character or 20. One can play the same amount of time and have different amounts of characters. Neither method is superior to the last, so yes, receiving the same one is fine because you don’t deserve more than other people.

Of course, let’s just ignore the birthday booster and focus on the mini. I really worry for some of you, because other things in this game, other games, and pretty much anything else is much, much harder.

I feel like what you are saying is that people that spend more shouldn’t get more. Which is odd, to say the least.

Why is it odd again? Are you more important because you spend more?

You do realize one can spend a lot on a few characters.

If I buy 2 cars and someone else buys 1 car, should we both only get 1 car?

ArchonWing.9480:

The intent, which of course nobody cares about such details, is to give everyone something, regardless if they have one character or 20. One can play the same amount of time and have different amounts of characters. Neither method is superior to the last, so yes, receiving the same one is fine because you don’t deserve more than other people.

Of course, let’s just ignore the birthday booster and focus on the mini. I really worry for some of you, because other things in this game, other games, and pretty much anything else is much, much harder.

I feel like what you are saying is that people that spend more shouldn’t get more. Which is odd, to say the least.

I also have this problem. Almost 23g worth.

zeromius.1604:

Number 2 kind of assumes that the players are right about something. You remember the most recent update made in response to player feedback right? Having a stronger focus on large dynamic events and giving champions better loot has created a scenario where players will farm champions to the exclusion of everything else. Even worse is that they will focus on farming champions even if causes an event, in which they were perfectly capable of completing, to fail.

I think they should listen to players but that doesn’t mean they absolutely have to implement what players suggest. Not all suggestions are good suggestions and some that may seem good initially might be bad for the game in the long run. They should carefully analyze the feedback and try to see envision what issues might result from implementing them before actually doing so.

Champion loot was extremely needed and the results are promising (even according to Anet). The thing is, you can’t take one version of implementation and say that it’s the only way. For example, they could have not let all Champions drop the boxes (like ones that spawn by the dozens all the time) or they could have put an internal timer on how often a box of a certain type can drop (i.e. Gear Boxes can only be acquired one per account every ~15/20 minutes or something). That way there is still incentive do go out and kill these enemies with other players, but the mass farming potential would be greatly crippled. That being said, Anet did this on purpose. They wanted the market flooded with mats to soften the blow of the coming update.

I doubt they will ever get below 3 gold again. I do think, however, the 3 gold range could definitely come against once people have things to spend money on again.

Assassins is like ruby but with power and precision switched (precision being primary).

Number 2 and number 1 go hand in hand very closely. If forum feedback isn’t a good way to judge players interests, find ways that will work. In-game or email based polls might be a good option if you are attempting to be as all-inclusive as possible.

And I’m sure they don’t think they are wrong often. That would be where number 3 comes in. If they think they’re right, explain why. But if a point in time comes when they have to go back on what they said, apologize and give a very thorough explanation how things went wrong and what their plans are to change it in the future.

The irony was that you are constantly lumping forum-goers into the same group, but then critique me for supposedly doing a similar thing.

The route any game developer should take is-

1: Ask for feedback often and in widely view-able/accessible formats. Actually listen. Acknowledge that you have listening and mirror back the feedback to make sure there is a clear line of communication.

2: Listen to overwhelming feedback and at least attempt to implement it, even if only in small scale at first.

3: Explain your actions. Always. If something won’t work, don’t use double talk or question avoidance. Address the concerns of the community quickly, accurately, truthfully, and wholly.

4: Be transparent. Tell the community what you are working on. If it doesn’t work out, go back to point 3 and explain why. If the community is overwhelmingly disappointed, make it happen anyway (in some form at least). The community is why the game was made and why it continues to be able to exist.

5: Admit when you were wrong, and attempt to remedy it as soon as possible. And again, be transparent! A public apology is one of the single most powerful actions a public figure or company can make.

ArenaNet does some of things currently (mostly partially, but still) or has done them in the past. If they did all of them (continually), there would be a much happier sentiment among the community as a whole (IMO).

chemiclord.3978:

Call me whatever you wish. If labeling people and lumping them into groups makes you feel better, be my guest. But what I said is still very much true. The majority of people who visit official forums do so to complain about something, be it reasoned, rational, or neither.

I would just like to point out that the irony of this paragraph is stifling.

chemiclord.3978:

Geikamir.6329:

Sounds like an awful way to view and treat a community. It’s saying that anyone that doesn’t nod and agree with all changes is “whiny” and should be ignored. Not only is that a sure-fire way to make people develop a distaste for you as a company, but it’s a great way for people not believe anything you say if you ever bring up the “listening to the community” bit.

The only people that think that anyone that dissents an opinion of a particular company or product is a whiner is themselves either an apologist, white-knight, or shill. All of which are far worse that what they claim of others.

Not all negative opinions are right, but not even close to all of them are wrong.

Again, you are making the assumption that “Official Forums” = “The Community”. That isn’t true. They are a PART of the community, and one that regardless of game, is largely inhabited by people who just want to kitten.

I think one thing to note is that the actual developers to the game rarely actually visit official forums. The people who slog through the mire pretty much have no control over the game whatsoever. Their job is to find the pieces of corn within the steaming pile of kitten that most official forums are… and having to read through that abuse is trying.

“is largely inhabited by people who just want to kitten.”

And you say I assume…

You are very likely one of the pillars of defense I mentioned earlier. Not sure which one, but I’m gonna go with apologist.

chemiclord.3978:

Geikamir.6329:

But that’s assuming that people on the forums always have different views than those that don’t go on the forums.

Either way, when they say they are listening to the community, what do they mean if they are referring to public forums?

I, in honesty, was not making an assumption whatsoever. The forum MIGHT represent the larger player base. On the other hand it might not; and there’s evidence to suggest that at least in some cases, forum sentiment and overall sentiment don’t always mesh.

And another thing to keep in mind: Listening =/= do everything that is demanded on the official forums. You can listen to someone else perfect well and decide at the end of the day, “Nope. I don’t agree.”

Arena.net clearly does not agree with many of the complaints voiced on their official forums. Whether that’s because they have other sources of feedback or simple design differences… I don’t know. I will say (in my limited experience in game development) that the opinions on official forums are not particularly sought by the developers of said game. It’s but one avenue for feedback, and one that developers know is going to be fairly negative (if not outright toxic).

As I heard it said; “Official forums exist so that whiny players can be gathered into one place and summarily ignored.”

Sounds like an awful way to view and treat a community. It’s saying that anyone that doesn’t nod and agree with all changes is “whiny” and should be ignored. Not only is that a sure-fire way to make people develop a distaste for you as a company, but it’s a great way for people not believe anything you say if you ever bring up the “listening to the community” bit.

The only people that think that anyone that dissents an opinion of a particular company or product is a whiner is themselves either an apologist, white-knight, or shill. All of which are far worse that what they claim of others.

Not all negative opinions are right, but not even close to all of them are wrong.

chemiclord.3978:

Geikamir.6329:

We have no other evidence to go by but requests made on public forums such as this one, reddit, and guru. So I am arguing based off evidence, where as others are arguing based off of???

Well, there IS other evidence. One thing that is fairly consistent regardless of game that it is only a VERY small percentage of customers that represent themselves in forums or message boards. It doesn’t ALWAYS follow that such forums provide an accurate sample size of the overall sentiment (a reasonably good example was this recent Cutthroat Politics event… had you gone by the official forum sentiment, Gnashblade should have won handily).

On top of that, as a general rule, people don’t come to official forums to say “Good job!” They come to complain about something (whether the complaints tend to be reasonable or not is another argument entirely). As a result, official forums of ANY game tend to slant negatively by default.

But that’s assuming that people on the forums always have different views than those that don’t go on the forums.

Either way, when they say they are listening to the community, what do they mean if they are referring to public forums?

Joonks.7501:

For those that came to this thread to actually find out what’s been discussed so far, here’s a link to Dulfy’s coverage:

http://dulfy.net/2013/08/31/gw2-pax-anniversary-bash-coverage/

I’d just follow that as this thread is pretty much just people complaining, as usual.

You can’t tell me what to do. You’re not my real dad!

Zanthrax.6538:

Best pvp dodge ive ever seen…..I dont see this game ever getting pvp to a competitive level now….god kittening dammit

Colin has permanent PvP-question-dodging Vigor.