Guild Wars 2

“Oh noes, they are on a crusade to ruin our class”

•Death Shroud: Reverted a change that caused this effect to incorrectly cancel abilities (such as stomping) when the necromancer’s death shroud runs out

kitten , Lethal took it :P

Gnat.9405:

The Mesmer immediately made me think of Spiteful Spirit from GW1.

Right where it hurts :’(

Sleep well my sweet prince

unlucky.9285:

I cant fathom how they can see necro sustain as op and thus have nerfed ds twice in recent months …….

Do you have any proof the changes to DS were because They thought Necromancer’s sustain is overpowered?

If not, then I will tell you again, because I cannot fathom why you do not understand this simple thing:

Bugfixes.
Have.
Nothing.
To do.
With.
The Balancing Team!

Just because those “bugs” were fixed at the cost of the survivability of the Necromancer, does not mean that this has any relation with the people who actually work on class balance… Unless you got solid proof that they made these changes because “Necromancer’s sustain is overpowered” I would kindly ask you to not make assumptions…

Carighan.6758:

GoogleBrandon.5073:

Perfect Balance does not exist – and everything that is “Meta” is by default “Unbalanced” since they dominate other build out there, oftentimes competing against their very own class (S/D Ele v D/D Ele)… (Quotations means I am not serious)

Yes, though we’re now down to semantics. For example, unbalanced has an inherent negative connotation, when in fact a lack of 1-for-1 balance is usually quite warranted and done on purpose, to actually facilitate balance in combat.

And “dominate” is a tricky word. What constitutes “dominating”? Except the whips and ropes and such?

Lightning whip is pretty dominant no? :P

A dominant build, or the way I referring it as, is a build that shows up more than regularly as a build for a class within a large demographic of the competitive scene, and now I mostly refer to the cough"Higher Tier"cough SPvP… – as a perfect example, almost all the ESL weeklies have featured multiple, if not solely exclusively Elementalists with a D/D Celestial build, with but a few itterations in traits and sigils… I refer to that as a dominant build, considering other options, such as Fresh Air or Nuke Staff Ele (If that still exists) are almost non-existant within this setting

I could’ve probably just used the word Meta, since it usually does not conflict as much within the competitive scene

On contrary – everything is OP, and that will always stay this way…

Perfect Balance does not exist – and everything that is “Meta” is by default “Unbalanced” since they dominate other build out there, oftentimes competing against their very own class (S/D Ele v D/D Ele)… (Quotations means I am not serious)

Besides, you cannot stay with the same meta for months… People will find more and more things that annoy them, or what they feel as if it is imbalanced, and they have the right to do so!

There is a difference between whining and projecting your thoughts on the current meta and what feels imbalanced – you can see a recurring thought be that Might Stacking and Sigil of Fire/Air are imbalanced, which might just be true in the end, and may need to be toned down…
Though as for whining concerned, these are usually threads like “X is OP because I say so” – that does sprout nothing but useless debates of nothing but strawmen and childish arguements…

And our Queen song to Anet is something like this one:

If I could only reach you

DanSH.6143:

GoogleBrandon.5073:

DanSH.6143:

You can also use spectral armor/walk to get LF while in DS.

Tsk tsk tsk, I expected better from a PvPboy like you

Gain life force as you take damage. Removed when you enter Death Shroud – for both Spectral Armor and Spectral Walk

I think the trait Spectral Attunement is not negated by DS though, but I’d need to test that…

It’s not removed anymore, read the notes in that wiki page..

Well watta ye know, shows how much coffee one needs on the early morning – still, the edit could’ve been more subtle within the wiki then

Granted, shows how much I used Spectrals up until now >.>

Edit:

another -10 for me trying to be a kitten

Guys… stop seriously, stop responding to xDudisx…
This guy is not interested in having a discussion – I mean, the thread has “IMO” in the name, which literally means “In my opinion”, and he has made his opinion clear…

He will not even bother to respond to well written arguements because he knows he cannot debunk them… He only resorts to saying people are either fanboying or resort to saying Zerker specs are evil – which is probably his only concern considering he also hates zerker Necromancers …

A comment saying how other Mesmer builds are fine shows how little he knows about the profession within PvP – while a 1 minute search on the Mesmer Subforum would’ve concluded that Mesmers do not have much choice within the matter of builds

As long as he is not willing to even dare to debunk well written posts as the ones I linked below, you should just ignore him… This guy is taking your precious time and that is not worth it…

Links to comments that were ignored, or replied to horribly:
Dondagora on how to counter the shatter mechanic – which recieved a reply here about a profession mechanic which has nothing to do with Shatter Mesmers at all and could be used for any Mesmer spec While those were fine, right?
Terrorsquad on why Mesmer has a specific role with counters
Magnito on the ‘issue’ of the class being used on top tier play
Daishi about… everything
Jurica on building a team around mesmer – response given here are nothing but verbal attacks with a shortage of actual proof
josh on meta specs, and why they all peform well

In closing; Mesmers are not OP, and only used on top tier play because Those teams know how to utilize a Mesmer – The OP is a troll and not willing to listen to arguements, he wants people to agree and if you do not, you are a Mesmer fanboy… So do us all a favour and stop feeding the troll

xDudisx – do us a favor and learn to play… Come back in a year when you got roughly the same amount of matches most people who tried to argue with you have, so that we can reevaluate your points and laugh about the nonsense you spouted in this thread…

- Signed: Not a Mesmer

My statistics if you need them

DanSH.6143:

You can also use spectral armor/walk to get LF while in DS.

Tsk tsk tsk, I expected better from a PvPboy like you

Gain life force as you take damage. Removed when you enter Death Shroud – for both Spectral Armor and Spectral Walk

I think the trait Spectral Attunement is not negated by DS though, but I’d need to test that…

Narkodx.1472:

Name three healing skills you would rather have – Withdraw/Troll Ungent/Healing Signet

Healing signet – Obvious reasons, high sustain in battle
Shelter – Blocks attacks
Signet of Restoration – Same as Healing Signet really, but could be used extremely effective with a Dagger build

flow.6043:

GoogleBrandon.5073:

Well to be fair, the trade-off for this skill is that it is almost the best healing skill within the game
…
I think that CC is just too potent to not justify the casttime…

I agree on the cast time being justified, but I wish people would stop saying it’s the best heal in game, because it’s not. The utility on it is good, but that’s about it, the amount of healing itself is actually rather bad.

I used “almost” ._.

GoogleBrandon.5073:

(…) is almost the best (…)

To be frank, I could name three healing skills that I really want from other classes for Necromancers :P

Well to be fair, the trade-off for this skill is that it is almost the best healing skill within the game – despite it being able to be interrupted (Clearing all conditions is extremely overpowered)

The saddest part to me is that the other healing skills Necromancer possesses are just so… meh…
As much as I hate the fact that almot all Necromancer animations are so slow that you literally can count your life wasting away – I think that CC is just too potent to not justify the casttime…

Booms.2594:

I don’t really see any major problems with double procs. shouldn’t we worry more about overpowered specs like cele engi and cele ele?

It is the issue of them working on Auto-attack – which means you gotta dodge those as well (and that is wrong :V)

I really do think Celestial specs need to be toned down, but this suggestion really gets my upvote as well

Actually, to me this sounds like one of the most well written arguements since… well, forever… I do not think I need to elaborate +1 to this

Character ratings are not account ratings ~ if you claim to have been in the top 1000 (lol) then you should’ve appeared on that list, which you did not…

Carighan.6758:

lunyboy.8672:

Let me reiterate, I main engie, and it needs balanced a bit.

Why not just leave and come back with a friend to clear it and kill the Engi?
I mean, I want stronger elites, I’m happy for things like Time Warp, Crate or Rezz Banneer which are strong already. Buff the rest up to be similarly powerful.

To be fair though, out of all mentioned, I would improve Lich a bit, since it is kind of a one-trick pony with not much depth… Most people use a bunch of 1’s (since it is not set on auto), and an occasional #3 & #5… They could do better to split the power of Lich amongst all skills imho…

But I agree, it is the same with all underused utilities and not just elites… It isn’t as much that most utilities are bad, it is just that they are underpeforming when compared to other utilities and elites, so I would love to see all of them being brought at the same level… Imagine a Conjure Ele being a thing! I would personally be really happy

Terrorsquad.2349:

Stop feeding the troll.

NinjaEd.3946:

When healing signet active is used.

2005 ?

J envy.5270:

awesome answers folks, on both of yall, both will never happen but im fine, i play other games anyway, was just curious.

Thing is, even for the sake of evening the numbers, there is nothing much to expand on, as almost all the Niches are filled…

Thematically you can have like a lot of options such as a “Dark Knight”, “Dervish”, “Paragon” – but none of these can fill a niche within the game, and will only end up with a weird role such as:

• Necromancer in heavy armour
• Spellcasting Warrior with Scythe
• Discount Guardian

Anet tried to condense everything they had from the previous game within this one, and with that, although not entirely the case, effectively filling in all the niches within classes…

dereck.8354:

The main thing is: if it is so powerful, instead of complaining, put it in your build. But it isn’t that powerful. Celestial has its drawbacks too. You won’t do spike damage with it, neither will be a bunker. It’s far from being an OP amulet, where you’ll kill everyone and won’t dye.

I think you missed the point of my comment…

Using Celestial efficiently is only reserved to some classes (Elementalist/Engineer/Warrior/Ranger), whereas the other classes cannot benefit at all with this amulet since they will either lack the same survivability or damage done over time (hello mightstacks)
Not just that, but most of the classes that can use Celestial are not as dependant on other classes for their survivability as the ones that cannot use them… Celestial enables a class to peform well enough on their own, be it in survival, or damage – and while it is true that the innitial spike damage is not noteworthy (I would argue with the bunker capabilities), the survivability is high enough to make up for the lack of innitial spikes without the help of a teammate, or simply enough to wait for a teammate to show up and “help”…

Celestial specs are on their own not overpowered, but within Conquest they are Overpeforming , as they can, with certain class synergy, effectively take two roles at once (Sustained dmg roamer) – which is what I meant with using the amulet effectively, because again if all classes can do that, then teamwork is dead…

It was last year about March when I stepped foot into PvP – not innitialy mesmerized and due to inexperience of the classes, I decided not to continue…

Then around the end of June, I stepped back in – right after Skypirates of Tyria , not because I heard things, but just because my buddy and I were trying new stuff as we became bored of other things in the game such as WvWvW and PvE…

It was about till last year around this time where I became sucked into PvP – I understanded the mode, and the class, Necromancer, and I became a lot better in a short period of time, or so I thought… My Guild formed a team and we played together solidly about every day

Now onto the real and interesting part; when playing in a TeamQ you would most of the time found the following:

• Lyssa Hambow
• Quickness Pistolwhip Thief
• Another Lyssa Hambow
• AH Guardian
• Dhuumfire Necromancer
• Spirit Ranger
• Decap Engineer (Though became more popular later on)

When looking back at last year, and despite that I “endured” I realize how crappy the meta was, especially in comparison to now… It was a painful bunker meta which excluded the Elementalists and Mesmers completely from play because their only viable build at the time was Fresh Air – of whic the former was mostly a freekill for the above described thief, same deal with Mesmer, which was just food for Thieves…
Lyssa Runes and Dhuumfire Necromancers (or Lyssa Hambow) did not gave Engineer much room, or any room, to run anything but Decap Engineer, which was basically a sign of how bad things were… Build variety was so absurdly limited that you had to go get a certain spec or drown…

Despite many complaints about this meta, Celestial Bunkers and whatnot, I still think this is vastly better than what there was before… Since I was still discovering things, I was not too bothered by everything, but looking and thinking back, it might’ve pushed me to quit playing if I did have more experience…

My point of this thread is to share my past experience… I am curious as to what yours was, especially around this time, and whether you think the meta did indeed improve or not….

When it’s ready
Soon™
It is on the horizon
It is being worked on

Pick one

dereck.8354:

style.6173:

Two options:

Option 1: Nerf celestial amulet
Option 2: Nerf engi and ele

I vote for option 1.

Man, if you think celestial is that good, use it in your build. It’s available to all classes.

The moment all classes can use Celestial effectively is the moment teamwork is dead…

Sizer.5632:

Or just remove hotjoin entirely and replace it with an unranked version on soloq that only people below rank 20 can join.

I don’t know, I quite like a play now feature the way it is implemented now (just joining a game without the hassle of waiting)…

Normalizing rewards for hotjoin seems more consumer friendly as well – it is a far stretch from being competitive maybe, but there are a plethora of people who like the feature as it is, and I personally do not mind either… Only thing that is whack, or so what I see happening, is people switching over to the winning team, which is just… pathetic at best…

Voidrunner.5093:

Good. More topics of the same subject, the greater the attention.

What about Aoe lifedrain?

it seems suitable and unique to necro

what they could do is recycle the GW1 skill unholy feast which was an AOE lifedrain and make it one of the main weapon skills of a hammer necro

this would also still be unique to necro in the game.

that would put hammer necro under Blood Magic, Death Magic for the toughness and vitality

would these buffs also work on minions?

Lifedrain, on an autoattack chain (say as fast as Warrior) would be cool – it would actually come close to the old Avatar of Grenth Dervish Elite which did the same…

As with other things that come to mind, giving the hammer acces to chill and blind (and more chill if traited) would also not seem like a far stretch…

And give it a pull on the #5 skill, similar as to what the Archdiviner has, and we got something rolling :P
(By the way, Archdiviner is a Necromancer with a hammer :< )

Lupanic.6502:

GoogleBrandon.5073:

Lupanic.6502:

7/10 would watch again.

I take seven – how can I improve to make it go to eleven?

It is not clear for me why all of this are sins. I miss a really good duel at the end of this video or at least a duel with many sins but won or a duel without sins and lost.

Haha, well – the actual montages are comming soon™ – though I noticed when looking back I made a lot of mistakes (IE proccing Endure Pain too early, Hundred blading the air and on Mesmer for instance, missing interrupts) – so I decided to poke fun of it… Mostly nitpicking of course (such as playing Cele Axe/Bow), but that is the general attitude of Cinemasins as well

Though in short, when playing Skullcrack, I lost about 4/5 duels I think, mostly due to mistakes like this

Regardless, thanks for the advice… if I ever plan on making this a regular thing, I will keep them in mind

Lupanic.6502:

7/10 would watch again.

I take seven – how can I improve to make it go to eleven?

G’day…

Since about 9/10 threads are all in negative context, I decided to bring some humor in the form of a video, so enjoy this compilation of fail:

Roughly inspired by Cinemasins

Stop being overdramatic…

Yes, Anet has designed a class just to hate on it – that is totally what you want as a designer, a faulty product which you as a designer hate, and want your consumers to hate…

These “Bugfixes”, though for the worst for Necromancers, are not part of the balance patches at all – I would be surprised if the Balancing Team even gets feedback from the Bugs that are being fixed …

Seriously, dry your tears already and man up… Giving feedback should not be “Oh, Anet hates us” – I mean for the love of the 6 Gods, we are their money!

Besides, it would also be wise to read something like this when it comes to Balancing and whatnot, and understand that Anet is trying to do anything they are allowed to do…

Nah I worded it wrong, I did not mean should , but more or less could be interesting … It’d be interesting, to me, to run a build that does not require it’s mechanic… For any class really (like playing an Earth Elementalist, or an Adrenaless Warrior)

Regardless, never going to happen – and I never said it was viable… It is like a Petless Ranger, which has been suggested numerous time, but simply a no-no, Class mechanics are set in stone, and we gotta deal with it… Not like I care much, but our class mechanic could use some TLC though (And frankly, I think they are at the right path of doing so, but slowly… too slow) – aside from the “bugs” that keep getting “fixed”…

Edit: Quick notion, I do like Deathshroud and use it quite extensively…

Edit edit: Condition Necromancer is already not as good as building up lifeforce as say it’s power counterpart – I guess there is my shroudless build :P

Silvercyclone.1462:

this is the point I was trying to make with being in DS while rezzing. you have limited time in DS so why would u waste it rezzing someone when u can use it by attacking the mob and get them to rally instead.

Also necros do have too much stuff for DS. There is DS traits in every path and it would be wise for Anet to improve the other qualities of necros. Some players don’t like using DS.

Heh… Shroudless should be a build, but it is never going to happen, since it means giving other means of sustain; IE Vigor, Stability, Blocks and Invulns – which is an area Anet does not want to go into since it does not fit the theme …

… because bursty condition/power class fits the attrition theme… yup yup…

Zero Day.2594:

GoogleBrandon.5073:

This discussion again… dunno whether to facepalm or to grab some popcorn…
Anyway, I’ll throw a bone:

“Efficiency” and Don’t be a burden on purpose within a group/team – these are the reason “meta” builds exist… You can feel pigeonholed, and try to fight it all you want, but there is just a simple thing within this or any other competitive game with builds that have a more efficient way of combatting… From Trading Card Games to Real Time Strategy games… So whatever Anet does to balance things – there will always be just a small window of things to pick since there is the “Rule of Efficiency”

Edit:

Believe it or not, Pokémon has a meta…

Plus given how many options/combinations there are in this game (weapon skills locked…) it becomes even more apparent how few meta-builds there are.

Well yea, but it has also to do with the depth of gameplay and the gamemodes available…

For instance, the first Tri-Worm events required specific groups of specific builds (These included condition build which are regarded bad in PvE in general) – if you build a system with certain mechanics which require certain builds to be handled, you force diversity…

Flipside of this is of course that you still force people to run certain specs for certain areas of the game… I.E, Dungeon Warrior does simply not work in PvP since it is another cookie which needs to be digested differently, so you still need to respec…

And well yea… there are also a lot of lackluster build options (Thief traps are laughable at best), and overpeforming build options (PvP Warrior Longbow says hi)…
There was a suggestion not long ago to make underused utilities simply overpeforming as well, just to see what happens… to be frank, I’d like that idea – creating controlled chaos and see what is healthy in the name of build diversity…

apocom.3172:

I don’t play a mesmer, but shatter mesmer clearly needs a huge nerf. I will briefly explain why.

- skill cap way too high. Really great mesmer can outplay people. Buff phantasm instead, so you lower the skill floor to a.i. niveau. Like turret engi.

- Mesmer has counters like thieves and condi pressure. Thats not good. Make something with celestial instead.

- Due to the low sustain mesmer fights are really fast. But for viewers who are old and slow its to fast to see what they are doing. Make it more like the fight between two d/d cele eles. Such fights have a great length of around 10 minutes and lots of particle effects to make it more intense.

- More condi spam. The scepter change was great, but not enough to bring it into the meta.

Just my 2 cents.

For a second you had me

+10

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Crash, you get this message followed by being pulled out of the game and back to desktop

http://i.imgur.com/moodB2T.png

Bri.8354:

The core problem I see is that meta builds are too far ahead of the alternatives. There’s always going to be a meta, but when everything is so far apart it makes players feel forced to run those meta builds.

I’m sure most people wouldn’t mind if someone ran a build that was slightly less effective than the meta, but what we see is a single change in a build deeply cutting its effectiveness with the top builds being over 5 times stronger than the weaker ones.

For example, its mandatory for effective play to run spotter and frost spirit on a ranger in dungeons. No alternatives begin to complete with the 35% damage and 750 precision they give.

This “issue” has existed now for ages as well sadly, and with the balancing approach of Anet (Shave only what is popular every 6 months), you’d not see it changed much, or at all…

PvE is so much dumbed down that roles are simply “DPS increase” and “Reflections” – anything else is (almost) not needed (to some extend)… This is as much an issue with a lackluster of traits/utilities, as well as most encounters being extremely simplefied…

I know from my “experience” on most, if not all classes, that there are a plethora of builds to be made, but non of them can work as good as the “meta” as you indeed say in your message… Sadly, this will not see a change any time soon, and the best we can hope for is new gamemodes/encounters to encourage build diversity…

This discussion again… dunno whether to facepalm or to grab some popcorn…
Anyway, I’ll throw a bone:

“Efficiency” and Don’t be a burden on purpose within a group/team – these are the reason “meta” builds exist… You can feel pigeonholed, and try to fight it all you want, but there is just a simple thing within this or any other competitive game with builds that have a more efficient way of combatting… From Trading Card Games to Real Time Strategy games… So whatever Anet does to balance things – there will always be just a small window of things to pick since there is the “Rule of Efficiency”

Edit:

Believe it or not, Pokémon has a meta…

So, I decided to join some guildies for one TeamQ match…

One…

spoj.9672:

Its not really a fine line. Its just a matter of not going overboard with the amount you give to the necro. The other classes have problems but major shortages of all aspects of the combat system due to stubborn class design isnt one of them. Anet have stated the only reason they dont give necros these things is because it doesnt fit the theme. Which i think is absurd. Theres plenty of ways to implement some damage avoidance without ruining the theme. And balance and ensuring the class has a place (is popular) should take priority over pre release design philosophies.

Quick summary to put the class in perspective.
- Selfish class
- Below average self buffing
- Below average damage
- No alternative methods of damage avoidance other than base dodges
- No extra mobility
- No special utility
+ Largest health pool but no reliable sustain to synergise with it.

Well, to be fair, going overboard is what most people aim at… They want it ‘all’ in the package of the same damage (I suppose) which is sadly not possible – especially if they are never going to split PvE and PvP…

I am all for giving Necromancers more sustain (or reliable ways to heal over time), giving support aside from siphons (which do not contribute to anything in PvE anyway), and lastly, I do not get why things like Corrosive Cloud have not been reworked at all to make it interesting (Say a projectile negation) which would give them a more stable role that fits their theme …

Still looking at support, I am no expert, but when looking back at Necromancer at say GW1, there were a plethore of options for offensive support – but it came at the price of the Necromancer not being the main source of damage … And in this game it got inverted, the Necromancer became a damage bomb with almost no offensive support at all… It went a bit whack really…

And self sustain is pretty much an issue of being reliant on DS and thus life-force regeneration… Apparently a nightmare to balance, as the attemps so far have not been for the greater good… Especially not when the bug-team decides to fix bugs that cost Necromancer’s their survivability…

spoj.9672:

The games combat system is designed in such a way that those things are needed. The fact that necro lacks any alternative damage avoidance is a major oversight. No matter how much you argue against it. Until things are changed necro wont improve. Necro needs a speciality or it needs to get things that every other class has.

With this I agree, but, and no offense to you and not aimed at you, there is a fine line you need to draw as to where you compare the classes…

I mean, other classes got their own problems even though they have all these “nice things” – it is just that the Necromancer has nice things, but cannot use them – like Siphons, or a non-existant support factor…

Please, don’t use a “The grass is greener” arguement…

Necromancer is different from other professions, it has therefore different issues and different approaches to combat and balancing…

They need a lot, but the last thing I want to happen with this class is it becomming Warrior 2.0…

Anet reintroduced those to give new players the exact experience from a year ago

Holl.3109:

GoogleBrandon.5073:

Best Necromancer skill by far

Sorry Brandon, i’d have to say plague blast is a bit better

True… it is puzzling to why Plague Blast and Life Blast differ in that respect…
Meh still, Condi removal enough in the non-watery areas, so a 5 target pull would be much appreciated… With a cripple, because it fits attrition ._.

Silvercyclone.1462:

There is already too much stuff with necro DS

I wonder why…

Best Necromancer skill by far

flow.6043:

Henry! One month afk and you come back in full emo-mode? What happened? :o

Oi oi oi, why do you think people stick to Necromancer anyway – it is to have a legit reason to go emo in game and on forums :P

Though I am inclined to agree – the gamemode and the way Necromancer gets balanced everytime does not help that much… I know, I am far from the best Necromancer, but I feel as if the class’ design clashes too much with the way the Devs are interpretting and balancing it…

Best thing we can hope for is a new gamemode and see

Yea, though the thought was nice, and I am glad they finally decided not to ignore PvP when the festival is up, the track is a bit of a lackluster… Like Kolompi says, you can farm candy corn way easier and faster in other areas of the game…

I hope Wintersday would be different… They really need to stabalize the rewards on every level of the game if they want to have PvE things so badly in PvP….

Sorry, but you are just bending the odds to work with you…

Good people are good and make use a class that is otherwise underpeforming – is that weird?

Teams who can work around the weakness of a build can make it peform better within their own team philosophy …

CM philosophy is apparently running full bunker, whereas Mesmer/Thief comps do not… This is a way of playing… And since it is top tier play, you got people adjusting these same kinds of philosophy…

NA is also kind of interesting in that respect since their top team plays something never seen before – granted, the discussion is about EU, but you cannot take away that they simply adjusted their philosophy according to what they thought was best …

The reason why Mesmer is picked within top teams has more to do with teams being comfortable with the playstyle the whole team has, and severely less to it being “unbalanced” – because again, if you think it is unbalanced because “Top teams are good with it” then nerf all the other classes I mentioned because they are being used on top tier…

Cheese Mode vs 55 HP Monks?

By your logic not just mesmer is OP, because the top teams also use:

• Guardian
• Warrior
• Elementalist
• Thief
• Engineer
• Ranger (R O M on off times)
• And sometimes Necromancer, though more prominent on NA

So uhm… Nerf please?