Guild Wars 2

xDudisx.5914:

Terrible suggestions that would simply break all ele builds. Ele is pretty balanced. With stronghold as a new pvp mode anet can just let the old conquest mode die out. Time to start thinking in balance with the stronghold perspective.

I laughed…

FrownyClown.8402:

GrandHaven.1052:

Burning needs to be brought in line, there is no argument there.

THEN I will bother re-evaluating ele.

You need to provide a better argument than that. Anyone with a little condi removal can counter a burn guard. No one complains about trapper ranger burns or engi burns. Those builds aren’t even considered meta.

Its a perfectly valid argument, depending on what kind of nerf burning gets, that will determine how much offence the ele loses out on.
I am sure they will need more looking at, but ANET has a habit of overcompensating.

Burning abuse, a well timed clear mitigates it almost completely.

Enjoy it while you can, burning will soon get a hit.

Pepsi.8907:

Same thing is happening with mesmer. Both of these class are where others should be… They are top tier and either the other class need to be brought to their level

So that everyone can just blow up all the time unless they run distortion heavy, signet of stone, endure pain, etc builds?
Some classes don’t have that kind of passive mitigation where they can still do whatever while taking no damage.

The power creep is already annoying.

Burning needs to be brought in line, there is no argument there.

THEN I will bother re-evaluating ele.

Manuhell.2759:

This is grenadier all over again, with a nerf on the grenade kit and an elite slot to spend instead.
Any advantage that got listed mainly has to do with the bonuses given by the grandmaster trait. Orbital Strike is just a mediocre skill without the second tap (since it has been balanced over that second tap). And the field durations have likely been balanced over that 50% increase. Like the old grenade skills were balanced over the addition of that third grenade (again, a 50% increase).
And those are just the issues related to the trait, anyway.
The kit itself is just a bunch of fields that can’t do much by themselves and are easily avoided – be it because of the traveling time at longer ranges (ironically, the one advantage that kit should offer) or because people can just move out and avoid most of their effects, even if shooted at close range. Sure, blasting some of them can give useful effects…but apart from the frost aura and an easier water field to blast, there is nothing new. And it isn’t like we’ve got infinite blasts, anyway – using them for those fields just means we won’t use them for other purposes (like stacking might).
At least the other elites work just by themselves, they don’t need outside sources to get some sensible effect.
If anything, i would say it is even overrated.
If it weren’t for the rng involved with Elixir X or the terrible survivability of turrets that plagues Supply Crate, no one should even bother using it.

I like the kit, A LOT, the trait is just kind of stupid.

Adjust.6903:

I have to admit my only 80 is my engi and I benched it awhile ago to level a warrior and elementalist both of whom I greatly enjoy.

I am curious however how well engi does in general now as I’m itching to play it again. Solo queue, wvw and dungeons Are my thing, so how are we guys?

PvP :
Annoyed.

I feel like rolling any other class (except Ranger) is just better.
And I have 10x more engi games than any other class.

WvW Roaming :
Limited but okay.

Feels like only Zerker/Knights spec works for decent duelling and roaming.

WvW Zerging :
Better than prepatch! Much better!
But I don’t enjoy zerging.

Dungeons :
Meh feel outclassed by the usual. Especially now that vuln is so common.

Sadrien.3470:

Archaon.9524:

Sifu.9745:

What about a Thief? or condi Warrior?

thief is gonna do nothing, ele is gonna cap and outheal everything while thief needs to constantly disengage as soon as he gets hit by some random condispam

and war lol…let’s say that atm going 1v1 with a cele d/d while on war (Any spec) is the fastest way to suicide after jumping down on skyhammer since the only war spec that could fight a cele d/d ele was shoutbow and they nerfed it to the ground (While ele got even stronger after patch…ofc)

Hey that’s something that can win 1v1 with cele d/d…nerf it asap and buff ele

I know it sounds pretty reterded but this is exactly what they did

Shout bow was not nerfed to the ground, there is a very succesful shoutbow build using a settlers amulet.

Siiiigh… All that build is doing is trying to emulate ele levels of burning abuse and sustain. Its decent in teamfight scenarios but in all other respects its bad.

sephiroth.4217:

In my experience with the classes I’ve played.

Celestial Signant necro.
Condition boon conversion necro.
Celestial Trap Ranger.
Hammer mace/shield warrior.
Celestial burn/bunker guardian.
Another Celestial burn Ele
Condition Shatter Mesmer with Arcane Thievery
Celestial illusionist Mesmer
Power Shatter Mesmer with the right positioning.

I honestly don’t understand why people have so much trouble with fighting D/D eles… I know when I play meta builds or thief I have some issues but I don’t enjoy meta builds unless I’m working out a way to devise a build that counters it.

Condition Shatter Mesmer with Arcane Thievery – You must be joking?
Celestial illusionist Mesmer – after condition death trait removal, definitely no!
Celestial Trap Ranger – how? Like just how?
Hammer mace/shield warrior – doesnt even make sense some of these!
Power Shatter Mesmer with the right positioning – “with the right positioning” kek.

I think you you need to rethink a few things…

Tman.6349:

Opinion: this was stupid and lame and I was of the impression this is why they added a 3rd and 4th Daily Profession…you know…b/c too many stacked teams due to previous Dailies!? :/

How often do you see engis?

The dailies are an issue, not the fact that they double up.

Jerus.4350:

IMO the cast time is a bit much for the long delay/easily seen visual. But overall I still very much like Orbital with the trait, without the trait not as much. Seems a bit counter to their idea of 3 grenades baseline. Making a skill 50% more effective with a trait was too much, but now we have 100% more effective >.< Not really complaining about that part as much as just feeling it’s a little silly.

I agree.
Don’t understand why it would have such a long cast time AND such a long delay/obvious tell.

One-trick pony… That aptly describes the situation!

Run SD? Gotta land that Overcharge Shot or run the kitten away!
Run FT Marauder? Gotta land that OS or run the kitten away.
Run burning FT? They cleared your IncenAmmo at the right time? Well lets run away again.
Run Soldiers rifle? Don’t have a team mate with you? Don’t bother fighting, even vs one. Oh and Overcharge Shot!

Laurence.6751:

No matter which of (signet, mantra, stance, spirit weapon, etc.) the Drones are like, the goodness I can see in Forge is that it adds some missing elements of the basic class. Hammer adds a melee option; and a set of utility skills that has passive functionality which gives Engineer a way to simplify the skill rotation while remaining a decent DPS.

Glad to know that game designers can wisely evaluate the class design. Same thing happened on Necromancer. Furthermore I can guess that Druid will add some useful WvW/PvE supportive features to Ranger (forget about spirits).

Passive = bad.
Please stop with that kind of argument.

Sorry guys, been away. I noticed that quite a few people seem to bhe comparing our prepatch options to what choices we have post patch, and while I agree diversity is there, you are neglecting one very important thing.

OTHER classes. Our changes are GREAT considering our prepatch position, but post patch other classes(bar ranger) got tonnes more in the form of pure damaging traits as well as utility.

I find it funny how Ranger and Engi, both being worked on by the same guy, seem super weak post patch.

Note, I pretty much extensively play Engi > Necro > Warrior > Mesmer.

Least of the problems that exist in PvP.

Prisoner. You are awesome!

Anyway, good change. SHould have been documented though, not being documented speaks volumes about ANETs way of doing things. Sad but true.

Did he say the same?

http://imgur.com/gallery/NAIHKo3/new

That is all

The message “HF looser” and AFK happened before the game even started.

As long as its not more AI. Ill be fine with anything else.

Dahkeus.8243:

Hmm, I don’t think engi is in a great place, but it’s good and probably one of the more balanced profs. While I agree to some extent with some of the OP’s points, I disagree with more:

1) The amount of blind affects all other professions just as much. If this is a criticism against the meta as a whole, that’s fine, but there’s not much that’s engineer-specific, particularly since we got a whole extra blind field on Mortar.

More of an observation on why it is quite bad for engis, not really specific to us though.

Fyrilin.2574:

I’m having trouble with the SMS 2-Factor Authenticator: When I try to log in on a new network, I try to remember the network and the code is not accepted. If I leave the “remember network” checkbox unchecked, I am able to log in. This happens on both the website and the client.

THanks! Now i can login at least!

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

Issues facing the engineer and every other class (apart from mesmer) in pvp:

1. Mesmer.

2. Necro… But this has always been the case.

Are you having issues with the authenticator?
Can’t login to site or client after setting it up.

Seems ill be missing my login rewards today. That’s a first in a long time…

(Posting this from a different account obviously).

Can I also add that mass incentives for authenticator before knowing if it works properly is a terrible decision, one of many such decisions being made by ANET and NCSoft… Honestly need to get your QA back up to snuff, or someone’s making bad decisions.

Works for me, and its godlike!

BurrTheKing.8571:

Even with the Spec update changing a lot, it’s clear I was right when I said that Engi was being carried by the old Cele ammy. What you said about damage mitigation didn’t really change much and now that Cele isn’t king Engi went down with it. I love the flavor of the class but now it just feels almost as weak as War and Ranger.

SD builds can be strong but do little that Mes doesn’t do better.

While not completely wrong about cele amulet carrying the engi. Condi builds(rabid) prepatch at least felt good and often useful, this isn’t the case anymore.

Hi guys.

Just here to pop my thought through on why I think the engineer is in just a shoddy place.
This is for PvP and WvW (small scale) only.
To be clear this is my opinion and I could be completely wrong.

1. Over-abundance of blind.

As Engineers we VERY rarely autoattack, they do pitiful damage, SLOW attack speed and generally are a waste. This makes blinds SUPER effective vs the engineer.
Its very clear that Mesmer(on shatter when traited, which is common in this meta) and Ele(when traited into fire) is able to completely beat us out due to these blinds.

2. Unblockable skills and engineer damage mitigation and opposed mitigation.

Many unblockable skills such as mirror blade(especially with lowered CD when traited) and Staff 2-5 when traited.
Most classes have some form of flat damage mitigation while being able to still complete actions (stone heart, distortion, etc) while an engineer relies on BLOCKS that lock out all actions but still can be penetrated by MANY skill(or elixir S which leaves you screwed by condis and still lock out your actions),
most other classes mitigation is not countered as easily and as obviously.

3. Lack of defensive traits

We have tons of healing with our new traits with decent uptime on protection as always. This ties into the above, but once again we have very little truly good defensive traits.
AMR now has A SUPER high CD, and the bug that it has with healing turrets overcharge majorly affects its performance.

4. Our role.

We don’t have a place.
OUr builds the moment are hard damage via Marauders SD or similar burst builds. However that position is very much filled by mesmer, with more AOE/single target damage and more mobility AND more mitigation, and to a lesser degree thief, more mobility and more single target damage.
We can also run tanky support just fine, but this again is outclassed by MILES by bunker guards or Eles.

5. Stability and CC.

CC and stability as always been a strong way to counter engineers, but its worth mentioning this aggregates the issue post patch.
Engineers depends on CC to get damage out as most of our damage is on AOE and ground targeting skills. If we can’t pin down our opponent, we can’t bring the damage out.
As a class that lacks decent stability, unless you run the terrible FT, we get CC’D to hell from Mesmers and warriors while we are completely unable to counter while they have their stab/distortion up.

6. Lackluster damage traits.

Need I say more?
So many reasons why I can say this, just go look at explosives and firearms. I mean REALLY.

Finally
7. condition changes.

Bleeding has always been a great source of added kick for an engineer, sure IP was our bread and butter and definitely a strong trait prepatch, but now that bleeding is gutted even with high condi numbers we lose out on a LOT!
Even IP is pretty bad post patch when you compare it to other classes burning burst potential, ele and guard for some.

As an engineer main I am quite sad to feel useless when playing PvP in pugs and even premade games.
I feel like rerolling anything but a Ranger yields better results than running engi. Even if just SLIGHTLY better in some cases, but I do feel much better when not running engi.

It scares me to think that the class I enjoy the most is now, BAD, not from a meta perspective, but from MY perspective while PLAYING it.

I hope that this can somehow be fixed even if I don’t have decent suggestions on how to go about fixing the power creep that left Engis (and rangers) behind.

Hi guys.

Just here to pop my thought through on why I think the engineer is in just a shoddy place.
This is for PvP and WvW (small scale) only.
To be clear this is my opinion and I could be completely wrong.

1. Over-abundance of blind.

As Engineers we VERY rarely autoattack, they do pitiful damage, SLOW attack speed and generally are a waste. This makes blinds SUPER effective vs the engineer.
Its very clear that Mesmer(on shatter when traited, which is common in this meta) and Ele(when traited into fire) is able to completely beat us out due to these blinds.

2. Unblockable skills and engineer damage mitigation and opposed mitigation.

Many unblockable skills such as mirror blade(especially with lowered CD when traited) and Staff 2-5 when traited.
Most classes have some form of flat damage mitigation while being able to still complete actions (stone heart, distortion, etc) while an engineer relies on BLOCKS that lock out all actions but still can be penetrated by MANY skill(or elixir S which leaves you screwed by condis and still lock out your actions),
most other classes mitigation is not countered as easily and as obviously.

3. Lack of defensive traits

We have tons of healing with our new traits with decent uptime on protection as always. This ties into the above, but once again we have very little truly good defensive traits.
AMR now has A SUPER high CD, and the bug that it has with healing turrets overcharge majorly affects its performance.

4. Our role.

We don’t have a place.
OUr builds the moment are hard damage via Marauders SD or similar burst builds. However that position is very much filled by mesmer, with more AOE/single target damage and more mobility AND more mitigation, and to a lesser degree thief, more mobility and more single target damage.
We can also run tanky support just fine, but this again is outclassed by MILES by bunker guards or Eles.

5. Stability and CC.

CC and stability as always been a strong way to counter engineers, but its worth mentioning this aggregates the issue post patch.
Engineers depends on CC to get damage out as most of our damage is on AOE and ground targeting skills. If we can’t pin down our opponent, we can’t bring the damage out.
As a class that lacks decent stability, unless you run the terrible FT, we get CC’D to hell from Mesmers and warriors while we are completely unable to counter while they have their stab/distortion up.

6. Lackluster damage traits.

Need I say more?
So many reasons why I can say this, just go look at explosives and firearms. I mean REALLY.

Finally
7. condition changes.

Bleeding has always been a great source of added kick for an engineer, sure IP was our bread and butter and definitely a strong trait prepatch, but now that bleeding is gutted even with high condi numbers we lose out on a LOT!
Even IP is pretty bad post patch when you compare it to other classes burning burst potential, ele and guard for some.

As an engineer main I am quite sad to feel useless when playing PvP in pugs and even premade games.
I feel like rerolling anything but a Ranger yields better results than running engi. Even if just SLIGHTLY better in some cases, but I do feel much better when not running engi.

It scares me to think that the class I enjoy the most is now, BAD, not from a meta perspective, but from MY perspective while PLAYING it.

I hope that this can somehow be fixed even if I don’t have decent suggestions on how to go about fixing the power creep that left Engis (and rangers) behind.

The lord itself applies weakness, poison and one other condi which I can not seem to recall now. Cripple possibly?

The Wizland.8435:

Okay? They already said burning and poison will stack intensity, so that’ll solve this issue.

It will?

Tip : It won’t.

For coverage im adding this discussion here : https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Stronghold-BoCD-A-discussion-on-meta

Hey guys!

EDIT : Note, I will be expanding this thread with more detail as more thoughts pop into my scattered brain.

This expansion will likely include specific ideas and current builds and variants that would work in the given roles/lanes as well as an extract on different strategies in game. Can’t wait to discuss my experience with lord rushes! My god what fun!

Right so I thought let me ‘pen’ down some of my thoughts for the Battle of Champion’s Dusk Stronghold game mode.

I will be dividing this into lanes and roles.

No lane :

Just like conquest there would need to be one roaming(high mobility) class that would reinforce either lane with DPS as well as run supply. Some CC is required in this role in my opinion as they would help with hero channel contention.

Attacking lane :

I see two prominent arising roles in the attacking lane.

The pusher/supporter. This roles will likely be specs that specialize in assisting the doorbreakers(DBs) and archers push the lane with swiftness, protection, invis or even reflects.

Optimally the second role in my opinion would need to be a bursty or general DPS class that can focus on killing or locking up(soft and hard CC) enemy players and guards so as to protect the DBs.

I feel like their should always be a minimum of 2 players with a near permanent presence in the attacking lane to constantly apply pressure.

Defending lane :

Hard defender, which would optimally have the capacity to heal guards and have decent range capability(not a must). This would would be relatively tanky role with a good size chunk of CC or sustain and should camp the defending lane 90% of the time while also keeping a presence on the hero channels(another reason to have CC, channel interrupts).

The other role would optimally need to double as a secondary roamer with a bit more sustain that can assist the main roamer in running supply.

In general the game tends to lean in the defenders favour to a significant degree and when in trouble, some effort should be made by quite a few team mates to save a gate. Gates are extremely powerful and once all of them are down it is literally anyone’s game.

Right so there we have it, feel free to input on my initial impressions of what would be optimal with the first stronghold map!

Expansion 1 : Builds that I have played a few games on.

Builds that work relatively well for hard defense :

Cele engi, the leaching variants was especially good and darting in and out of combat to defend gates but I found that Tri-kit (Toolkit/Elixer gun/grenades or bombs) worked the best mainly because of super elixer as well as the zone control and kiting potential on acid bomb. Elixer S and Slick shoes just felt useless to me until you actually were forced into smaller spaces such as the lord room.

Power ranger, oddly this worked better than i thought with the sniping potential as well as the meta fear and immob associated with it, i did find fire sigil a must have though. While this build lacks ally healing(even with healing spring), it makes up for it a little with great DB bursting.

Turret engi, i found a neat trick where you can place the thumper on the inside of the gate and it will knockback the DBs quite effectively, obviously this is only effective when you are under heavy enemy pressure. I used elixer gun, rocket turret and thumper most of the time and swapped thumper for rifle at one point. Thumper allowed more zone control while the rifle turret helped out with DB and archer killing to a much larger degree.

Celestial Staff ele, truly amazing zone control in front of the gate but needed a bit of DPS help and struggled to defend once the gate is down. This build is second only to the cele tri kit engi in my opinion. But this could be a little engi bias.

Terrormancer, while effective in keeping them off the gate, the 5 target AoE cap makes this a little harder than you might think. This obviously lacks the ally healing and buffing that other classes bring but is at least fun and relatively effective.

That’s it for expansion 1. I’ll be back for more once I get some sleep and a few more games of testing. Ill be running attacking lane tomorrow late morning.

Hey guys!

EDIT : Note, I will be expanding this thread with more detail as more thoughts pop into my scattered brain.

This expansion will likely include specific ideas and current builds and variants that would work in the given roles/lanes as well as an extract on different strategies in game. Can’t wait to discuss my experience with lord rushes! My god what fun!

Right so I thought let me ‘pen’ down some of my thoughts for the Battle of Champion’s Dusk Stronghold game mode.

I will be dividing this into lanes and roles.

No lane :
Just like conquest there would need to be one roaming(high mobility) class that would reinforce either lane with DPS as well as run supply. Some CC is required in this role in my opinion as they would help with hero channel contention.

Attacking lane :
I see two prominent arising roles in the attacking lane.
The pusher/supporter. This roles will likely be specs that specialize in assisting the doorbreakers(DBs) and archers push the lane with swiftness, protection, invis or even reflects.
Optimally the second role in my opinion would need to be a bursty or general DPS class that can focus on killing or locking up(soft and hard CC) enemy players and guards so as to protect the DBs.

I feel like their should always be a minimum of 2 players with a near permanent presence in the attacking lane to constantly apply pressure.
Defending lane :

Hard defender, which would optimally have the capacity to heal guards and have decent range capability(not a must). This would would be relatively tanky role with a good size chunk of CC or sustain and should camp the defending lane 90% of the time while also keeping a presence on the hero channels(another reason to have CC, channel interrupts).

The other role would optimally need to double as a secondary roamer with a bit more sustain that can assist the main roamer in running supply.
In general the game tends to lean in the defenders favour to a significant degree and when in trouble, some effort should be made by quite a few team mates to save a gate. Gates are extremely powerful and once all of them are down it is literally anyone’s game.

Right so there we have it, feel free to input on my initial impressions of what would be optimal with the first stronghold map!

Expansion 1 : Builds that I have played a few games on.

Builds that work relatively well for hard defense :

Cele engi, the leaching variants was especially good and darting in and out of combat to defend gates but I found that Tri-kit (Toolkit/Elixer gun/grenades or bombs) worked the best mainly because of super elixer as well as the zone control and kiting potential on acid bomb. Elixer S and Slick shoes just felt useless to me until you actually were forced into smaller spaces such as the lord room.

Power ranger, oddly this worked better than i thought with the sniping potential as well as the meta fear and immob associated with it, i did find fire sigil a must have though. While this build lacks ally healing(even with healing spring), it makes up for it a little with great DB bursting.

Turret engi, i found a neat trick where you can place the thumper on the inside of the gate and it will knockback the DBs quite effectively, obviously this is only effective when you are under heavy enemy pressure. I used elixer gun, rocket turret and thumper most of the time and swapped thumper for rifle at one point. Thumper allowed more zone control while the rifle turret helped out with DB and archer killing to a much larger degree.

Celestial Staff ele, truly amazing zone control in front of the gate but needed a bit of DPS help and struggled to defend once the gate is down. This build is second only to the cele tri kit engi in my opinion. But this could be a little engi bias.

Terrormancer, while effective in keeping them off the gate, the 5 target AoE cap makes this a little harder than you might think. This obviously lacks the ally healing and buffing that other classes bring but is at least fun and relatively effective.

That’s it for expansion 1. I’ll be back for more once I get some sleep and a few more games of testing. Ill be running attacking lane tomorrow late morning.

EDIT : I have the discussion going on reddit, which is a lot easier to use in my opinion, feel free to follwo there. http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/38a66k/stronghold_bocd_a_discussion_on_meta/

rpfohr.7048:

Ranger? Not unless rangers are allowed to train juvenile Centaurs in HOT…..

Thats RACIST!

Go play WoW of the myriad of other clones you are referring to.

You didn’t clear 14000 worth of burning damage(yes THOUSAND). LOL. That just invalidates your post.

Some VERY easily avoided skills that you should not have been hit by.
Prybar.
Rush.
8 hits of hundred blades, WTF. LOL
Not to mention most of these show you were heavily outnumbered most likely.

Choose your battles, that will help you manage your HP pool.

Simple really. In 99% of scenarios you do not want to use FT auto attack.
You use it when L
A. tag lots of enemies and damage does not matter.
Or B. When you rapidly need to apply condis with a crit or 3.

No other situation is the auto any good. AT ALL.

nopoet.2960:

CureForLiving.5360:

Legendary armour!

Only if your ascended armor is one of the materials used to make it.

This.

Joke or serious? They are candy corn elemental farming.
Seems its flared up again.

They take of their armor to minimize their damage for maximum tagging potential in the whole group.

Exedore.6320:

GrandHaven.1052:

I agree with this, accept for grenadier, fine as is, its definitely not a 50% improvement.

2 grenades baseline and 3 traited, therefore it’s a 50% increase. You can argue that not all the grenades hit on every toss, but that’s true on the untraited version as well.

The issue is that when all the grenades hit, which isn’t hard when you’re at mid range or against a CC’ed opponent, the traited basic attack is doing more damage than a melee weapon. Traited Shrapnel and Frost grenades are better than a lot of melee and mid-range burst abilities.

The spread on 3 increases dramatically with the trait vs 2 without, its definitely a great improvement, but not 50% since you are almost going to miss many of them, more so than when only 2 are being thrown.
If you are using grenade kit at anything over 600 range, you are doing it wrong, in 90% of cases you are using them at near melee anyway.

Freeze grenades larger AoE is a bit rediculous however, but the trait isn’t influencing that to a significant degree.
As someone else mentioned, kits and weapons are balanced around the “improvement” trait, not around the base.

Shieldbash.5304:

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Shieldbash.5304:

Well I’ve been solo queing Ranked, and people seem to care far more about scores than getting nodes and defending them.

Well I can’t say I’ve ever seen this, with the exception of someone getting 0 points.

I play on Sea of Sorrows 7pm -10pm Eastern Time.

Irrelevant what people care about, the points on the scoreboard have no correlation with how useful you are or how much you are contributing to the team score.
Forget it.

Manuhell.2759:

GrandHaven.1052:

I agree with this, accept for grenadier, fine as is, its definitely not a 50% improvement.

Yep. They always balanced the whole kit over the grenadier-traited version, anyway. The untraited version just had no way of being relevant in the slightest since they choose to give such a big bonus to a trait (or since they designed a grandmaster trait to give a bonus to a single kit/utility).
I wouldn’t even call it an improvement, anyway. If anything, it is a given – if it was considered the baseline for balancing purposes, it should be baseline even in practice.

Anyway, i can’t understand how people still compare the engineer with other classes. I always see comparisons about its traits and skills, but people never consider that something has to make up for the lack of the second weapon set, be it skills or traits. It is merely logical.

Common problem in the PvP forum. Comparing apples with elephants.

Charrs face is pure happiness.
You should post this on reddit.

Engineers weapons are mostly used for their utility above the damage, kits really are a integral part of the class and I would strongly suggest using them.

If you are not interested in kits at all then a rifle is the only other decent option.

Pistols are mostly used on condition damaged based builds and have pretty poor power(direct) damage. For this reason they are not great in PvE, but in the open world it really does not matter how fast you kill and you can easily supplement the damage with kits when needed.

Dual pistol in PvP is decent(still condition based build), although pistol/shield is considered better.

Stop comparing GW2 to WoW, just STOP………

Since we already are. First expansion for WoW, Burning Crusade, release a 2 and a half years after initial release, GW2 is just after that stage.

Stop complaining, dear kitten

Exedore.6320:

Another poster said that there are lot of small things which lead to celestial rifle engineer being too powerful. That’s accurate, but there are a few outliers. In my view, these are the major offenders and how the upcoming trait changes address them.

• Incendiary Powder Damage bonus is far too large for an unavoidable proc. It’s applied by anything, including ground-target abilities. This is 2000-2500 damage per proc for a cele rifle build. Most master level traits add only 10% damage and only under specific conditions.
  With the trait changes, burning is lower damage per application. Incendiary Powder is moving to a different trait line and will likely see further changes to smooth the damage and reign in its total damage.
• Grenade Kit + Grenadier Grenadier provides a 50% bonus to Grenade Kit skills #1-#5. In order to keep the untraited kit relevant, the traited kit ends up dealing more damage than melee weapons on top of spitting out multiple conditions and vulnerability stacks. The multitude of conditions make Incendiary Powder hard to remove, nearly guaranteeing it will deal its full damage.
  With the trait changes, the current Grenadier trait is baseline, allowing ANet to better tune the kit’s damage without having to worry about a lesser version of the kit being useless. Assuming the new grenade kit is dealing damage more comparable to a ranged weapon, it will significantly hinder cele rifle builds.
• Condition Duration from Explosives Trait Line Engineers get +30% condition duration from the explosives line, which makes Grenade Kit conditions more potent and makes movement impairing conditions stronger. For example, Net Shot’s immobilize goes up by 0.6 seconds, which allows another attack in the CC chain.
  With the trait changes, the condition duration increase is gone, which reduces the soft CC durations to their base values.

With the trait overhaul in a few months, engineer should be in a better spot. I wouldn’t get my hopes up for a balance patch before then, which does suck. It’s also somewhat counter-productive to propose changes knowing that the system will drastically change anyway.

I agree with this, accept for grenadier, fine as is, its definitely not a 50% improvement.

Take some advice from Who’s Line Is It Anyway.

Sustained damage battle is still better, for more burst (assuming you know which skills are the high dps ones), take intelligence.
For sustain (and a lot thereoff) take leaching.

Disables and confusion(after they swap out of water).

Engi’s have near zero access to stability, main reason why gear shield is on a low CD. And they can’t stomp with it active.
Engineers have no other reliable access to condi clear besides healing turret, it is perfectly balanced as is. Or they will be completely useless vs any form of condi, which is almost already a problem for them.

IP does need some sort of change.
Slick shoes needs to not stack on spot.
Kits need icons similar to attunements, which will happen hopefully with the hobo sack changes. Although this change won’t help much because of the 1second CD on kit swap, which is fine as is. As someone mentioned the individual skill CD nerfs are better, or risk making what makes the engineer unique null and void.

TLDR
You expect to many nerfs, you want to gut engis, so stop. Now.

coglin.1867:

I haven’t had lag in weeks. I have heard almost no complaint on this in the last several weeks.

What region/server are you on?

To be fair its a very isolated issue, I have not had problems in a while either.

So I don’t know. As I mentioned before, its hard to determine if its user side or server side with the limited info provided by 90% of people complaining here.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQFAUlUUpkr1UxtLseRCdBNywMFQugKIyGuwPFAA-T1BFABCcBAsZ/BkU+lhOAAeAAFq+zVKBJFwSKjA-w

I run that.

A lot more DPS output. Loses some outnumbered potential.