I had 10 players harassing me saying I am a terrible player when they are on the ground dying. I never had received this much harassment while playing any other profession, especially the engineer which is my favorite and best class. Is this a thief only thing or is it just me?
People just really hate Thieves. Especially dumb people.
Many many times I’ve downed a person in sPvP, only to have them say something like “lol HS spam!” because I finished them with two Heartseekers after they got low.
Seriously is someone blowing the thief dev on a regular basis? So they get to spend 50% of the time invisible and immune to all damage whilst pumping out insane dps? Really? Really? 4s revealed reverted to 3s? Should be 10s min.
<nods in agreement>
It’s amazing that thiefs get BUFFED. Just before the last patch, they announced that thiefs will get their DPS down to more normal levels.
But they chickend out and didn’t do the change, they just changed the timer from 3 to 4 and called that a nerf (lol).
Now, it’s back at 3 and thiefs are just as OP as before.
I really, really wondered what happened inbetween.
Did all the WvW DEVs got a 80 thief on their accounts with zerker gear or so? It’s amazing how they can keep one class so OP. Highest DPS and stealth at will.
What’s next, give them clones or so? Oh, wait…
Actually warriors dps is prob a tad more with evis and 100b but hey whatever…..
Uhh no. You actually see those coming and can dodge them.
And everyone knows, when a Thief stealths, you just throw your hands up into the air, stand around and let it happen.
What else are you supposed to do? Critical thinking is for nerds.
Seriously is someone blowing the thief dev on a regular basis? So they get to spend 50% of the time invisible and immune to all damage whilst pumping out insane dps? Really? Really? 4s revealed reverted to 3s? Should be 10s min.
Way to understand basic game mechanics before complaining about them.
Seriously is someone blowing the thief dev on a regular basis? So they get to spend 50% of the time invisible and immune to all damage whilst pumping out insane dps? Really? Really? 4s revealed reverted to 3s? Should be 10s min.
<nods in agreement>
It’s amazing that thiefs get BUFFED. Just before the last patch, they announced that thiefs will get their DPS down to more normal levels.
But they chickend out and didn’t do the change, they just changed the timer from 3 to 4 and called that a nerf (lol).
Now, it’s back at 3 and thiefs are just as OP as before.
I really, really wondered what happened inbetween.
Did all the WvW DEVs got a 80 thief on their accounts with zerker gear or so? It’s amazing how they can keep one class so OP. Highest DPS and stealth at will.
What’s next, give them clones or so? Oh, wait…
They really just need to make stealth work in a specific way when it comes to exiting it. If an opponent blocks or evades a skill the thief tries to hit them with while in stealth, the thief is thrown out of stealth with the revealed condition. However if the attack misses due to Out of Range, the stealth stays intact. This would fix the main complaint with thieves.
If you Block/Evade an attack it may not remove them from Stealth, but it does already let you know the Thief is directly on you and trying to attack. There are all kinds of options available to anyone by that point.
Well, on my Thief site I have a large number of guides, and I’m still working on more.
One thing I’m working on at the moment is exactly what you asked for; an extensive guide on skills and traits and such to help people create their own builds rather than just randomly listing a mass of ready-made builds.
I expect that to be finished some time in the next week.
There’s already some stuff that would be very helpful to you though; http://www.blackwolfbrotherhood.com/
Eh, I wouldn’t thank them too much. The clear implication they gave in the video was that it was reverted for PvE only because PvE Thieves were “crying” about the change a lot, WvW got the change because it’s still connected to PvE right now, and sPvP was left with it not because it needed it, but because no one was really complaining about it there.
@OP I think the cost is splited, no way you’re wasting 6 or 7 initiative like you said on the whole process.
And 2 separate presses would be great. It helps making the skill better, the first one is the defensive positioning (which they say have been imrpoved). Now the second strike most times missed or was dodged, now you can decide when to use it.
You could even press 3, press 2 to paralyze him, and then press 3 so he can’t avoid you from stealing the boons.
About the boons, my guess is that the priority will be the “strongest” one. They made the example of the opponent having 20 stacks of might and you stealing them. It’s possible that there is like a priority table, that makes X stacks of might a top priority, and decrease its priority against boons like Protection if the stacks are lower or if Protection lasts too long. It might simply be random, IDK.
I’m pretty sure it works similar to how it did in Guild Wars 1.
Boons and conditions are stripped in the order they were applied, starting with the most recent one. Any time you refresh or add a stack to one, it gets placed back at the top of the list as the most recently applied.
Boons that get constant stacks added to them will actually be the easiest to steal, because they’re constantly moving to the top.
Considering the Thief’s role and playstyle, I honestly think they should be better at stomping than they already are.
Thieves are pure active defense. No Health, no Armor, no Boons. All they have to stay alive is Stealth, Blinds and Dodges. Most active defenses become drastically less effective during that long stomp animation, and it isn’t uncommon to straight-up DIE while trying to stomp another player as a Thief.
On top of that, Thieves are all about dealing quick damage, getting in and getting out. That means jack if the enemy can just rally right after, which is often the case.
Even the oh so infamous glass cannon backstab Thief can’t do much against more than a single enemy. Because even if you down one of them in half a second the other will just flatten you if you stick around to stomp, or rally their partner back up if you don’t.
On the other hand, the current style is pretty Thiefy. You just have to combine stealth with misdirection so the enemy doesn’t KNOW you’re stomping. At the very least, a nerf would certainly be out of line.
I like the idea.
Something else I’d like even more would be the ability to bind camera movement to a key instead of right clicking. Like middle click, or even X or Tab or something.
I don’t like that it causes issues if the cursor is over the UI or an NPC or something when I press it because of right click having multiple functions attached.
Though the Necromancer is getting it first, I doubt it will only ever be accessible by the Necromancer. If it added Life Force, that would be bizarre for other classes.
I think it should simply deal damage while healing you an equal amount, like a DoT Life Steal.
Thief
-Want the thief to be more survivable and versatile.
-Reducing their overall burst, but still wants them to be the best burst class.
-In the future, may increase base damage slightly so thieves can trait a bit more defensive
-Wants to increase thief mobility. Possibly cause steal to work as shadow step if nothing is targeted.
-Some traits may be compressed together in the future.
-Mug can no longer crit, but also heals for 2000 + healing power.
-Flanking Strike has improved animation that better tracks the target, now costs 3 initiative
-Larsonist’s Strike added as a follow up to Flanking Strike. If it lands, this hit will steal one boon from the target. Costs 1 initiative. May consider traits in the future to share this boon with the team.
Watched the video. Apparently only S/D got the boon steal so it could be used as a guinea pig. If it works out well, we may or may not see that crucial benefit for the rest of the profession some time in… I don’t know, Fall? They said specifically they won’t even be doing a balance patch next month <_<
‘Cause minor changes once a freakin’ month wasn’t slow enough, right?
I think stealing boons from the target, as they seem to be leaning toward, is a good way to add “boon hate” to the Thief within their own theme.
We need far more of it than just one attack though.
So still nothing on mobility a month after it was mentioned, boon hate turned out to be a single attack on a single weapon set, and we probably won’t even get that in the stated form since it would be overpowered.
Mug change is about as short-sighted as possible. Steal is typically used to open a fight, when Health is still full.
This bothers me for one reason. Some people cant afford to pay for gems with real money or have the money to convert in game gold to gems. Thus they bought the game knowing that it was going to be free and that you can obtain everything without paying a dime. It just takes longer. NOW Anet is just putting a lot of crap into BL chests that people want. Fused weapon skins are a big example of this.. They are out to line there pockets and i don’t think it is fair to the rest of us. Yes we can eventually get it but for some this is seen as not fair and will cause some people to steer away from GW2. I really think there should be another way to get these skins rather than just the GEM STORE. especially when the price of gold to gems goes threw the freakin roof!
That’s just stingy; how do you expect them to make money from this game? There’s no subscription, no expansions. Compared to almost every other MMO out there, the cash grab in this game is mild as hell. Literally the only underhanded method they use is the Black Lion Chest. They even allow you to trade Gold for Gems, which I’ve never seen before.
Hell, I’ve seen plenty of subscription based MMOs that abuse the cash shop more than this game.
You’re whining about a cosmetic item costing money? Try playing when you have to pay real money to use the chat, have more than a single inventory bag, go through dungeons, join a guild, or level at an acceptable rate.
If they don’t make money off this game, it doesn’t get updates. It if did poorly enough the whole thing would get shut down.
EQ1 has a F2P option, Sub model (can be bought with in game currency so you never spend a dime if you want the gold account) and in their store you buy whatever weapon skin you want without pulling a slot reel.
That game came out at the end of 90s a sub only game and can make a cash shop where you can buy everything you want with in game currency without gambling and play for free now.
So why can’t Anet do this again with a new game? Because EQ sure as hell isn’t selling 3 million copies any time soon.
Took me 5 minutes to look up that game’s subscription model.
If you don’t pay $15 a month like so many other MMOs, you have limited access to character abilities, you have limited access to equipment, you cannot send any mail, you miss out on “Loyalty Rewards”, you have limited “Mercenary Tiers,” whatever that is, you can’t access a Guild Hall, you can’t create your own guild, you have limited access to the “Broker System,” you have limited chat access, you cannot access the “Progression Server,” you cannot contact Customer Support, and you get in-game advertising.
Real great model.
This bothers me for one reason. Some people cant afford to pay for gems with real money or have the money to convert in game gold to gems. Thus they bought the game knowing that it was going to be free and that you can obtain everything without paying a dime. It just takes longer. NOW Anet is just putting a lot of crap into BL chests that people want. Fused weapon skins are a big example of this.. They are out to line there pockets and i don’t think it is fair to the rest of us. Yes we can eventually get it but for some this is seen as not fair and will cause some people to steer away from GW2. I really think there should be another way to get these skins rather than just the GEM STORE. especially when the price of gold to gems goes threw the freakin roof!
That’s just stingy; how do you expect them to make money from this game? There’s no subscription, no expansions. Compared to almost every other MMO out there, the cash grab in this game is mild as hell. Literally the only underhanded method they use is the Black Lion Chest. They even allow you to trade Gold for Gems, which I’ve never seen before.
Hell, I’ve seen plenty of subscription based MMOs that abuse the cash shop more than this game.
You’re whining about a cosmetic item costing money? Try playing when you have to pay real money to use the chat, have more than a single inventory bag, go through dungeons, join a guild, or level at an acceptable rate.
If they don’t make money off this game, it doesn’t get updates. It if did poorly enough the whole thing would get shut down.
Toy and another Plush backback omg stop please !!!! The quiver looks amazing more things like that!! LESS things like kittenning quaggans…Please ArenaNet treat GW2 like MMO not like virtual toy shop for kids
They put out what sells. As always we vote with our wallets and plushies won.
Just the other day I saw a norn or charr warrior with big, bulky, spikey full plate armor and some small plush teddy bear looking back item. It was quite sad.
I believe you mean “awesome.”
Also, that quiver looks so awesome it might make me no longer care about getting a rifle for my Thief
If they were going to replace it with another trait, Patience would be better. It’s too crappy for anyone to waste points on it.
I’d rather see a new effect though, like Protection or Vigor on Stealth.
I have a D/P thief and it’s troll in terms of survivability.
Then why would you suggest hitting with Heartseeker through a Smoke Field cause Revealed?
Combos are supposed to be helpful; if they did that then 99% of the time you’d only get Revealed. Smoke Fields would become massive liability.
You’d only bring it down from the top by completely negating any viability of it.
The set itself is far from overpowered anyway; the other options are just that much more terrible.
They could change it to teleport you to the location of the trap itself instead of the one who triggered it. Being a very long range Shadowstep, most of the time it fails to take you to the target anyway.
Many, many, many examples.
Trick Shot and Vital Shot are slower than listed.
Infusion of Shadow and Hidden Killer apply their effect each time stealth is applied, not each time a stealth skill is used.
And so many others.
I’m willing to join in on it, but I don’t have a regular schedule with which I can just throw out times when I’m always available. Afternoons on Monday and Wednesday are usually good though, as are weekends some time after 5:00-6:00pm est.
My in-game name is Kieran Wolf, NA, and I have no recording software. I do have a mic though.
How many of these “this skill throws off my otherwise perfect combo timing” topics must we have? I play a pistol/pistol build, and those 2 seconds of stealth has saved me more times then I can remember.
Patience is a bit weak, but it does have some pluses. Assuming we have the 15 SA minor…
For example, a full SR stealth, I believe, gives more initiative with Patience than having Infusion of Shadow does. On the other hand, both HiS and BP, if you stay in them for, say, all four seconds, will give you 1 more initiative with Infusion. However… Patience also gives you extra initiative with the Powder+HS combo, as well as with CnD. IoS doesn’t do that. So… It depends on how much you’re going to utilize your weapon set-granted stealths, I think.
That entire post is made of the most intense concentration of misinformation I have ever seen.
Infusion of Shadow applies every time you apply Stealth. Not every time you enter Stealth.
This means that standing in Shadow Refuge grants 10 Initiative, and you gain 2 Initiative every last time that you Heartseeker through a Blackpowder even without leaving Stealth.
I don’t even know what logic you used to claim Patience gives more Initiative on Cloak and Dagger than Infusion of Shadow, so I can’t really comment on that beyond just saying it does not.
I recently started a site dedicated to hosting information on Thieves, http://www.blackwolfbrotherhood.com
I don’t have a huge amount of information on it yet, but there is already some good stuff there. The attribute section is also a little bit incomplete and may not be 100% accurate.
Tomorrow I’m adding more information on the specific mechanics behind various Thief abilities like Shadowsteps and Stealth.
You realize you’re perfectly capable of playing in free tournaments still. The only issue is that a loss affects your ranking, and they have a queue to get into.
It’s basically as LordSlack said. And Assassins did indeed use magic.
You might be able to justify it by imagining that Thieves are the result of Assassins migrated from Cantha during the events of Guild Wars 1 causing their techniques to become more common knowledge, so Thieves use the old Assassin magics.
There was no great depth of thought put into it though.
The giant chasm in Divinity Reach was the result of a last minute decision to remove the Canthan district from it, which was likely when they decided as well to rename the Assassin class to Thief and jumble together a last minute class mechanic.
Meaning you’ll only gain a single point of Initiative from it on a single typical stealth. It’s a garbage trait and no one takes it.
Even if it did grant an extra Initiative at the start of stealth as it should, it would still be worse than Infusion of Shadow.
Initiative has at least as many problems as benefits.
A huge example is weapon swapping.
Other classes can blow through all attacks, then swap weapons and do it all again.
Thieves don’t even have enough Initiative to blow through every attack once on a single weapon set, and even if they could it would take far longer to “recharge” than other classes.
I’d like to see the Engi give you overcharged shot like you get from some PvE mobs. The you could overcharged shot>infiltrators signet for some control.
Ohhhh, now that would be awesome. Throw Net would be really useful as well. I’d prefer either one.
It’s not that hard to keep track of; once it gets down to like a second left it starts to flash progressively faster.
A bar as well would definitely help though.
I tried out two separate builds in the Mists. One with Deadly Arts and heavy Power/Condition, the other with heavy Critical Strikes and Power/Precision/Crit.
Even when I started adding some purely extra Precision/Crit to the condition build while standing at point blank range spamming Cluster Bomb detonations with Choking Gas taking Initiative in each build, the Condition build was still lagging behind.
It was significantly less optimal.
The most effective way to use Shortbow would be to use a combination of Condition Damage and Power.
You can hype up how awesome you think the direct damage is all you want, but it deals even more condition damage. There is no way in frozen fiery hell you’ll get more damage out of something like Precision than you would Condition Damage.
With how much Bleeding and Poison it provides, Precision and Critical Damage together probably would not boost the damage as much as Condition Damage alone.
Actually having done at least some of the base maths, a good critical rate and damage modifier with a high power set up is going to do more damage.
Thats before you factor in the need for condition duration gear at the expense of other damage stats to make condition build viable for shortbow outside of shotgunning and before you factor in the extra trickshot hits you get when you fire a longer range cluster bomb.
Shortbow is probably the least effective condition damage weapon for thieves even with the permapoison ability of it.
Yeah, you’re right. I looked at it again, and it deals significantly less Bleeding damage than I had thought.
It’s like they throw all the condition damage on the weapon just to trick people into building wrong, and detriment even those who build properly.
The most effective way to use Shortbow would be to use a combination of Condition Damage and Power.
You can hype up how awesome you think the direct damage is all you want, but it deals even more condition damage. There is no way in frozen fiery hell you’ll get more damage out of something like Precision than you would Condition Damage.
With how much Bleeding and Poison it provides, Precision and Critical Damage together probably would not boost the damage as much as Condition Damage alone.
I assume you have Auto Attack on. A ridiculous part of stealth is that if you fire a projectile, then stealth while it’s still flying through the air, once it connects with the enemy you’ll get Revealed.
It’s most noticeable with Shortbow and the stupid bouncing arrow.
Do you have the Ricochet trait? Because that would definitely exacerbate the problem.
Sounds to me like he’s built properly for pve, and your not. If you were running S/P you could have stood still and soloed all the mobs untouched. If u were spamming DB with caltops you would have bled them out nearly untouched. IF your set on only using the SB then spamming cluster bomb-explode with signet of malice on your nigh invincible.
Shortbow is probably the BEST weapon for PvE leveling, assuming you’re built right.
