That’s completely irrational. Just take Deadly Arts with some other tree that will actually help you, like Acrobatics. If you aren’t using a lot of Stealth or Venom Share (which should not be there), you have no business going deep into Shadow Arts.
That’s no different than a Ranger using a greatsword with spirits/shouts investing 30 points in Marksmanship, or an Engineer using a rifle and turrets taking 30 in Alchemy.
Deadly Arts is the Venom tree. Shadow Arts is the Stealth tree.
I agree whole-heartedly with each of the first two posts.
Like WHY ARE VENOMS NOT IN THE TRAIT LINE THAT OFFERS CONDITION DAMAGE!?!?! SERIOUSLY!
If anyone has been successful in creating an uncommon build, please feel free to share!
Because until the last patch, the Venoms didn’t really do any actual damage, so condition duration is far more useful to them. Even now it’s only really the Torment one, and its garbage anyway.
The problem is that you’re not walking close enough for the automatic targeting version of the lightning jump skill to kick in. You’re too far away that you have to ground target your jump.
Just walk in closer and watch your icon flip.
I’ve died plenty of times using the automatic Obelisk version. Usually it shoots me way too far and I fly past the ledge.
Well, you can activate remote cameras to watch everyone else as they race. Haven’t tried it myself, but I found the option.
Most popular and successful mmo of all time has had perma stealth since release and has kept it across 4 expansions.
I think we can end these discussions now.
While in Stealth a Rogue moves slower, unless specced for stealth speed. A Thief runs just as fast as everyone else, if specced for stealth speed he’ll be faster then anything.
A Rogue takes damage, even from a DoT, and his stealth will be broken. A Thief doesnt not exit Stealth when taking damage. Even getting downed doesnt cause a Thief to lose Stealth.
Re-stealthing for a Rogue meant leaving combat or blowing lengthy cooldowns. Restealthing for a Thief comes on abilities with no cooldown and a cost low enough to resealth everytime Revealed fades. Abilities with a cooldown are still much lower by comparison.
A Rogue has limited gapclosers, either they need to be specced for or they come with a lenghty cooldown, or both. A Thief has a multitude of gapclosers on low cooldown or no cooldown at all.
Looks like a Rogue in “the most popular MMO ever” has quite a few drawbacks a Thief does not have. So are you really sure you want to go and compare to “the most popular mMO evar”? Because that just shows how silly Stealth in GW2 is.
Not that I really care, but most of those points you’re trying to make about Rogues in WoW became moot about two expansions ago.
As long as I’m posting; yes permastealth is terrible in GW2 and shouldn’t be possible. At least in its current form. And yes the OP was likely making a blatant lie to troll people.
Same here. I even right clicked and selected “Use” directly, and still nothing at all.
I’m having the issue only inside the race as well. Both issues in fact; constantly rubberbanding off ledges, and getting hit by lots of lightning with no one around.
I also have yet to get a single ability to actually affect my enemies. I can fire it off right in their back from a few feet and nothing happens.
I’m with Korval; if anyone beat him, it was blind luck.
Him non-stop spamming the most powerful signature, coupled with him taking less damage per drink then you and having a near-psychic ability to interrupt your water makes this practically impossible.
I swear I’ve seen him drink water more frequently than should be possible, also.
It has an interesting Mega Man-esque style to it. Each person you beat gives you an ability, and each ability used by an opponent has another ability you can get from someone else that hard-counters it. Like using Whoo against the Charr who heals alot, or Critique against the Sylvari who bluffs a lot, or Boast against Maddie who prevents you from drinking, etc.
After actually playing, apparently the raw Omnomberry Juice is poison. That does make it much more intriguing.
Good luck getting a bleed to actually last anywhere near 20 seconds, though. Many classes will likely cleanse it off in ~5.
PvE enemies will die well before then, and bosses will just reach the stacking cap from all your teammates’ bleeds.
I haven’t found it to be very effective at all. I wanted it to be. It’s the coolest Thief skill. I used it while I was PvE leveling last year. But it wasn’t at all unusual to find myself flying unintendedly off a cliff, or worse, stuck behind an invisible wall.
I later tried in in PvP. With a condition build I think I was getting over 100 damage per tick on the conditions (probably could have been tweaked to do better), but nothing was dying. Granted I was hard to kill because they couldn’t focus on me very easy as I flew through the air, but I wasn’t killing much of anything. And then I thought about the damage. Even if I managed to double it to 200 per tick, would that really be effective? It would take 10 seconds to do 2k of damage, which is so ridiculously low, I could see why nothing was dying. And most classes will simply cleanse your conditions if they are at all a problem.
So…I haven’t gathered any scientific evidence, but I’ve seen enough of this skill that I never use it except to do a quick evade and reposition myself.
If anyone else is able to accomplish something more useful with this skill, I’d be glad to see how.
You… realize that Bleeding stacks, right? One DB stacks 3 of them. Use 3 DBs in a row and you’re doing 900 a second.
Maaaaybe they took 1200 range from Shortbow, so that the new sniper rifle would have a solid niche on Thieves!
…Two years from now.
No one calls alcohol juice; the implication here is that you aren’t drinking alcohol. You’re having some sort of bizarre juice-drinking contest, which is painfully immature.
Are we all in elementary school? I’m pretty sure the Order of Whispers quest got away with calling it alcohol, so what’s the problem here?
I swear to god, if they wanted to give it a limited duration they SERIOUSLY needed to make the non-target return at least a legitimate teleport and not a bullkitten shadowstep.
Don’t forget that the “evade” only lasts a quarter of a second in the middle of the animation, making it all but useless.
It looks like the new patch will let us put Celestial stats on regular armor. And if I’m not mistaken, this opens up the option to have Celestial on every piece of equipment.
Anyone have ideas for how effective this could be for a Thief?
Daggers in particular seem intriguing, with a combination of condition and direct damage, and being able to take Shadow Arts to leverage the +Healing, while getting great use out of the tree from Cloak and Dagger.
If removing the AoE cap isn’t an option, maybe add back body blocking.
I thought it was full blown kittened when they announced that wouldn’t be in GW2.
Then it would be literally impossible to stack on top of each other. Even trying to stay excessively close would make it too difficult to move.
Might be interesting if all the bombs had two activations; one to place it, and another to remote detonate it.
You could use them to control the battlefield, since people would be pressured to avoid them.
If you want to use them like they are now, just double-tap it.
You could even set them in advance and place them strategically.
I have an even better suggestion; make Deployable Turrets baseline.
They should change it to just a very short range shadowstep + stealth. Like Mesmer downed state short.
Main thing I miss was the dual classes and complete build control. You could put together such amazing concepts…. I spent hours just coming up with builds, it was hands down the funnest part for me.
Ironically, it was also the main thing they shredded and threw in the trash for GW2.
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Finally after almost 1 year from the release, after countless nerfs, some minor buff and no bug fixes at all, we are not anymore the most lamented class on the QQ forum
We lost our OPness…how do you feel about it?
Personally I hope A-Net won’t nerf Necro so we can still going on killing people and having fun like we always did and the forum will be a peaceful place for a while
I was reading complaints about Thieves in this very forum just yesterday :/
Actually, I’ve found it’s incredibly rare to find a game in which much of the clothing/armor is NOT ugly. At least in games where you have many outfits to choose.
I’m not saying they should be mandatory; I’m saying I see no reason to ever use them anymore, and I haven’t seen other people using them either. I’m curious if others actually do use them much.
Actually, I think it would be helpful if I were more constructive and actually said why I think they’re all ugly:
Heavy – …Looks like a robot. It’s also incredibly plain and symmetrical. The female pants are actually pretty cool, but the male version fails to match the rest of the armor, has very low detail in general, and the belts are just lame.
Medium – With the male version; the skirt is horribly rigid and fake, the studded belts across the chest are too S&M and don’t match the rest, and the shoulders are WAY too big and also fail to match the rest of the armor at all. All of the gears across the set look tacked on and don’t blend in well. Like pins or something.
The gloves are just a mess and don’t even match themselves let alone the rest of the armor (sharp change between hands and wrist).
The pants are just all kinds of bad without any redeeming features; they look like something a comic book superhero would wear. Which is bad. They’re not Steampunk, and I could never picture them on an actual person outside a hardcore Sci-fi setting.
The boots are WAY too bulky, too many belts, and match nothing else in the set except the gloves, which also match nothing else.
The set as a whole also has much too strong of an Asuran feel. I understand that the Sky Pirates are working with the Inquest, but Asuran gear only looks good on Asurans. The Inquest dungeon armor suffers this same problem, much like the Twilight Arbor armor and Sylvari.
More of that wool pattern seen on the gloves and boots should have been woven into the rest, like a visible undershirt made of it with a collar, and the Asuran pattern should have been replaced with a more rugged Steampunk pattern.
With the female version; the chest is too shapeless and bulky with a big ugly spotted area right in the center, the skirt matches neither the rest of the outfit nor the theme itself by breaking off into full-blown cyberpunk (more Inquest theme problems), the shoulders have the same problem as the male version, and the boots are very bulky and plain. The pants and gloves are both basically fine.
Light – on the Male version; the chest is good, the shoulders share the same problems as the Medium armor, the gloves don’t match the chest and have a clumsily abrupt and plain end at the forearm, the pants share the same issue as the Medium armor, the boots are totally plain and devoid of any real style or detail, and the skirt is both rather plain and fails to match the chest piece at all.
With the female version, the skirt is good overall but flares out too much, the chest is horribly bulky and shapeless, the shoulders are just all over bad, and literally no two pieces in the entire set actually match. At all.
Every version suffers from a few problems. The biggest issue is that they’re supposed to be Steampunk, yet Inquest style was ham-fisted in for arbitrary reasons despite being a completely different theme; Cyberpunk. It’s all a mixed up mess as a result.
The other problems would be the helmets and shoulders. They’re all horribly bulky and just irredeemably hideous in every regard on top of failing in every case to match the rest of the set properly. Like they were lazily tacked on just to have them, without even trying to tie them into the rest of the outfit.
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I suggest everyone to buy the armor skins off the shop, it is possible that if they sell SIGNIFCANTLY more by selling the skins directly, they could change their marketing strategy to reflect it; which means this could end the RNG issue.
But…. they’re ugly.
Does anyone still use it? I used to, but I’ve noticed that since the patch a while back which cut the effectiveness in half, it hasn’t seemed worth a utility slot for any of my characters. Even with the Stun Break and reduced penalty.
It simply provides too small an effect for too short a time on too long a recharge in my opinion.
I also haven’t noticed anyone else using it. Whether it’s PvE, sPvP or WvW. Which is a very stark contrast to how it was before, where most people had it.
How about we complain about the thief moving too much, eh? I mean everyone already kittened stealth to death and now that we have something to work with you guys come one here again to complain about it.
If every thief agreed to just stand there and die for you for an entire week would that satisfy you and the crowd you indirectly assotiate with so I don’t have to come on here and see, “OMFGTHIEFKILLDME! NERFIT!!!@#RC”?
For kitten’s sake, this kitten is getting old.
Breathing is OP, Thieves should just slowly suffocate after a match starts.
You don’t lose a skill slot by using a kit. You have the toolbelt skills for that.
You are failing to get the point. We are sacrificing a utility slot for what should be a “secondary weapon.” Eles have 4 attunments and can freely select their utility skills; every other class (except us) has access to 2 weapons, and they do not have to sacrifice a utility slot for it. We are penalized for something that every class has access to in some way shape or form. The tool belt is not all it is cracked up to be. Yes we do have the tool belt, but we are not able to select those skills, they are based off the skill in the corresponding utility slot. This creates a lack of options, a lack of options creates a lack of builds.
This is why the Ele is so powerful in comparison, they have access to not only every attunment by default, but can freely select their utility skills at the same time. Could you imagine if the Ele had something similar to what we Engineers have to deal with? What if Eles had to equip their attunments on their utility slots? So if they wanted every attunment, they would have to use all their utility slots for their attunments, and not have access to a weapon swap. This is exactly the kind of asinine crap that we have to deal with.
end rant
I like the OP’s suggestion, in fact I have seen this mentioned before on reddit and these forums.
Here is a counter suggestion:
6 classes share weapon swapping with a unique trait for each, Eles have Attunment swapping. Why not make the Engineer’s “attunments” our kits? Our traits will have to be reworked for this, but since most of our traits need to be reworked anyway, I fail to see any reason why this couldn’t be done.Off topic but… combine turrets to make a turret kit.
kthxbye
Don’t forget that the Engineer main weapons deal less damage per skill than those of other classes who also have two.
You don’t lose a skill slot by using a kit. You have the toolbelt skills for that.
…Except that slotting a Gadget or Turret also grants that extra skill, so… yes, you do lose one.
Yea good work anet this patch has been all kinds of great, on another note I don’t think we should get a sniper kit I think we should get goggles that for the time there activated make engineer attacks unlockable or undodgeable kinda like a targeting system that makes all your attacks 100% accurate I think that suits the engineers concept of look at the things I’ve made to kill you
Sorta like the Utility Goggles, which make you immune to Blind and grant Fury?
Wait, and get INSIDE the enemy base?
Have they hotfixed it already? I tried doing it off a ledge for fun, but I just dropped straight down after hitting the normal landing point of the leap.
Yeah, Lotus Poison got hit friggin’ hard, even with the Weakness buff.
Do NPCs even have that many crits though? I wouldn’t think the buff would do much in PvE.
How in God’s name would you maintain 100% up time on 5 or more separate conditions in a direct damage build?
I doubt it can be done in a condition build.
…You few advocating it with condition stacking… even ignoring the fact that it doesn’t boost condition damage, you do realize you would have to CONSTANTLY juggle FIVE conditions at once just to break even with a trait like Rifle Mod?
Recharge rate means the speed at which it recharges, so it recharges 30% faster not 30% shorter recharge. Think of it this way.
New recharge time = (old time / 1.3) not (old time* 0.7)
That is a spectacularly misleading way to handle that. Considering that all other recharge reduction traits and, as of now at least, every tooltip uses a completely different formula.
And even knowing the formula, it’s still convoluted and difficult to perceive.
I think they nerfed pet damage because of the recently popular BM Bunker builds, where the Ranger could just focus on throwing all their stats into defense while their pets did all the damage, creating both incredibly high defense and moderately high offense all at once.
Is it weird that my first strong reaction to the notes was “YES! THEY BUFFED MISTFIRE WOLF!!”?
The problem lies in absurd choices made when the class was designed. Our main weapons are nerfed due to the existence of kits.
(https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012/999247)
Thus we’re basically being nerfed for a choice we can make. And it doesn’t make sense. The kits already have a cost, the utility slot (and despite some what may say, the toolbelt slot isn’t comparable at all at an utility skill – area buffs have got small radius and often they must be AoE targeted, making them very unpractical; other skills have simply got poor effects, save for a few exceptions).such as what?
Control effects and defiant stacks, for example.
Funny thing about those notes, a couple points can easily be summarized as so;
Engineer; can do a lot, but limited to medium range and low damage to compensate for their versatility.
Elementalist; awesome at everything, with the only weakness being a high skill cap to play.
…Insofar as it becomes difficult to manage all those skills, when you have nearly twice as many as everyone else in a game where the only limitation on skill usage is individual cooldowns <_<
That’s like having the “problem” of too many attractive women trying to hit on you at once.
(edited by Grimwolf.7163)
Hammer is too much like toolkit for my taste, I’ll take a chainsaw however.
+1,000,000 to Chainsaw. It’d have to be a kit, but whatever.
For like 2-3 seconds each, with 15-20 second cooldowns. The animations alone would cause earlier conditions to drop off before you get them all on or actually take advantage of the trait.
And you can’t access them all; more like 6 tops.
(edited by Grimwolf.7163)
If those leaked notes are true, I’ll probably drop hair trigger and pick up sitting duck, along with the new GM trait modified ammunition, for the damage increase per condition.
Modified Ammunition looks pretty weak to me. You’ll be unlikely to ever have more than 3-4 conditions on a person, making it weaker than Rifle Mod.
I have an idea. I think someone may have suggested something similar recently, but I can’t recall.
They could keep the packs, but replace them with small horizontal packs on the back of the waist, instead of the huge things we have now. Backpacks and weapons could be visible with them as well, since they wouldn’t be on the back.
Here’s an example of what I mean;
http://www.maxpedition.com/store/pc/catalog/0402k_7_detail.jpg
I’d have to agree; Engineer would have been a far better choice than either Thief or Mesmer. The problem may be though that it’s some sort of dark magical condition, and simply didn’t fit thematically.
As long as someone is actually watching now; I mentioned it before and it appeared to get ignored, but as you can see in that same screenshot the medium Kodan chest piece belt area doesn’t dye properly. It switches color half way across.
You can see that it’s all black toward the front, but suddenly switches to white as it goes back.