Guild Wars 2

^^^^
I took a whack at Demons Souls on PC…. I raged like a boss. Not because it was broken but because it was creatively HARD. Being me… I avoided guides and videos and spent a buttload of time beating my head at it till I was purple with rage but I finished it. It felt satisfying at the end.
This content only brought brought loathing and nauseating feeling towards it. On how cheezy and cheap it is… how much favoritism flies in this game. And how sad I am that I even bothered to do it despite knowing this gets me nothing but frustration.
At the end of a day I didn’t feel proud I accomplished something. I felt cheated by this game on every step. From horrid dome effect and not seeing jack. To almost invisible aoe circles… to the stupid 1 shot kill mechanics that never make anything harder without context.

Ughh… again IT’S NOT HARD. Take it from the necro that did it. ITS NOT. Its just stupid and favors specific toolset which some don’t have access in any form.
Its not challenging.
Its not hard.

This game was advertised as for casuals putting content that is not accessible goes against that. Then again anet has so far lied about every thing related to necromancer so I guess I can just go with “working as intended”.
But it still does not change fact how 1 class can just faceroll it like its nothing and another class with be stuck raging at it and pulling hair because they lack everything that this fight requires in terms of game mechanics.

Skill in video games is imaginary value placed on ego and renamed. Clearing DMC in its highest difficulties never took skill. It just simply meant I sat there and memorized every last animation from every enemy and memorized every route, spawn.
In dmc tho even if you die in 1 shot while enemy doesn’t and its hardest level you have plenty of ways NOT to die. Here you don’t unless you roll X class.

gwawer.9805:

well guys just look at the human female models…they all have perfect figures, huge boobs, and nice round butts. just like the fembots

pretty sure anet artists just like to design their females that way.

wtb fat ugly female dwarves

You forgot how every set of armor from light to heavy is a bikini. Yet it doesn’t bother anyone… imagine that.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

There has been a lot of confusion among some players as to what the Queen’s Gauntlet is. This is content that was intended to be hard and challenging, meaning that not everyone will be able to complete it. Are there flaws? Sure, I can name a few bugs that I’ve seen pop up. But overall, these fights are not “freebie achievement points”, especially Liadri. If you want to win, learn the mechanics of each boss.

Now, regarding the term “challenge”. In simple terms, it means a task that is difficult. In the real world, people will have their own definition of what is or is not difficult. To me, the Clocktower JP was pure bliss. To others, it was like scraping the bottom of your feet with sandpaper, then jumping into a pool of salt. In the game however, it applies the term “challenge” in the purest sense. The design of the Queen’s Gauntlet is to have each player use game mechanics to how they should be used. Movement to control enemies’ paths. Dodge to avoid strong hits. Tells like red circles or movements that show an attack is incoming.

While the content’s bosses have set mechanics, players are able to adjust their builds to counter them. Trait for more mobility, damage, or conditions. Weapon sets provide a variety of skills that you can combine with your Utility skills for combinations. Food buffs that supplement your stats. All this can help reduce the level of challenge, or increase it if doesn’t compliment the target boss mechanics.

Again I bring up the fact that not all players will be able to complete this challenge. Because one player may find it impossible to do doesn’t mean it’s broken (yes I know there are random bugs here and there). Patches and bug fixes aside, the main mechanics are still punishing for some. But remember, this is a challenge. A very kittene. Don’t expect Anet to lower the level of difficulty so that the Queen’s Gauntlet (or any other hard content) is less of a challenge. For full disclosure, I have yet to beat Liadri. I reserve the right to scream at my monitor if it’s hard, but I refuse to ask for an “easy button”. If I want my win, I’m going to earn it. So should everyone else.

Negated all of this by 1 shotting everything until last boss facerolling with minion master necro. No thought process at all just faceroll.
Got to last fight and got hit with the… welp… ya got no vigor/block/evade/invul/leap so guess what bub? Time to reroll a warrior. But guess what I do not have a warrior. All I got is necro and nothing else.
Just because I did it… doesn’t mean its fine. It doesn’t mean its challenging. It doesn’t mean kitten past the fact its a cheap/lazy/brainless activity favoring specific classes.

The amount how much you can kitten it up there with guardian/warrior is simply mind blowing. Watching mesmer get tossed around by rifts left and right and still never dying is also hilarious.

Just for saying you did not do it “yet” and yet making this sort of statements judging how well something is made simply means you have either huge ego, your a rabid anet fan or you are trolling.

The only class I have is a necromancer. Imagine how kittened this content looks from where I’m sitting.

Did I kill her… yeah… so what? Trash mechanics are still trash. They are not creative. They are not fun. They are not hard. They promite playing specific classes with specific tools. Nothing more.

liao.7152:

Last night video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PNRItM91Okc

0 30 10 10 20

please forgive my poor english

dont care orb,if orb pull me,use Weakening Shroud hit it.

good luck

Few things to say here. If you are going for rabbid gear condition… take 30/20/20 maximise your bleed/burning stacks. And get yourself some much needed fears to get her off you in p2 and cleanse + regen on faster use. Chill doesn’t hurt either :P
Use pretty much what he has its really best you could take. Signet of locus is required since we have no vigor. Other 2 depend on what you want. I went with spectral wall and bip/spectral walk which ever. Swalk makes things a bit safer for p2 but you are going to be dropping FAST so I prefer bip to just kill her faster. And golem to interupt her at least once on p2. Its all matter of how used to it you are I guess but locust is not debatable lol.

Scepter breaks rifts really well. You don’t need to waste your lf or destroying em.

Use shuffle straifing to confuse her autoattack on p1. Its not going to miss always but she will some shots which helps big time.

Abuse mark of blood on p1 SPAM IT. How much health you start with at p2 makes or breaks the fight. If you start with nothing chances are you will get rolled.

Stay in sort of middle and rotate about 45% clockwise follwing aoe safe zone they are opposite to each other. Reason to stay mid is because its closes to move to new safe zone.

Other then that watch that vid to get an idea of how to deal with p2.

At least its not filled with warrior rofl stomping it or mesmer getting pulled across the arena left and right yet never getting him by aoe… luck fest to the max. Nor does it help when ppl post videos where they use evades/blocks/blinks and so forth. That shows absolutely nothing except how to do it on that specific class. Necro video will be much more useful. Since it has no vigor/block/blink/invul/evade mechanics involved.

Anyhooo gj on that video man props. Personally I wouldn’t touch that fight ever again.

spoj.9672:

Puandro.3245:

Tools are mean’t to be used if you need them, i didn’t need them so i carried more dps to speed it up.

The point is that the necro doesnt even have the option of tools.

The point is that he has no proof that he did that. Hell you could negate necros lack of survivability in this fight with a simple kitten signet. Yay… now you mitigate her autoattacks w/o doing anything at all or even equipping healing related gear. Pfft.

When someone spews that kind of rubbish, just write it off as entitled clown shoving his ego in everyone’s face. I wanna see that cupcake provide proof of doing that on necro. Ohhhh I’m just dying to see that.

And just to make my point even more clear…

I did this and I’ll also be first to say this has nothing to do with any imaginary skill. Its luck pure and simple. Did it for a friend on his guardian in 1 go… watched a warrior go in and stay full freaking hp and leave with ~25 seconds of swiftness left… really?

No this is an insult and nothing else. A spit on this class that lacks any utility that helps every other class do this. I don’t care if your a ranger you still have leaps and a galore of swiftness and stability.

Blaine Tog.8304:

mintkola.3756:

Unfortunately necros are usualy kick on sight when ttrying to get into a pug group

Yes, that explains why I was in a pug group with 3 necros earlier today until one of them turned out to be from an EU server.

Necros are bit light on ally support unless we specifically build for it, but we also have some of the strongest enemy debuffing in the game. Maybe we can’t grant AoE Stability, but we can keep a group of mobs nearly permablinded and permaweakened instead.

So there were 3 of u… hope u all werent condition spec. Which equals to 1 necro being there instead of 3.

Evil Death Reaper.1408:

I just managed to beat her on my necro without using endurance food. For the first phase I just hit her with 3 orbs as fast as I could.
Once the 2nd phase started I did as much damage as I could to her while constantly running in a circle around the arena, once I heard the sound effect for a new Chaos Rift I used Spectral Walk followed by Lich Form. While I was in Lich Form I continued my path around the arena but a lot of the time I was facing backwards and auto attacking, when I had to turn around in order to make it to the safe zone I would put down the #2 and #4 skills. I would also use #5 to cure the cripple and weakness on me. By the time the duration for Lich Form ran out she was almost dead and I finished her off in DS. I was in full Sentinel’s gear.

And I have yet to see phase 2 that didn’t start with instant leap/smack clone spawn on opposite direction and u get boxed in making middle not an option. First phase may not be that bad… but w/o any vigor/blocks/invul or blinks or freaking anything if im condition I die to her incessant autoattacks long before she is dead. Or get insta gibbed by her plethora of rng traps.
Luck? I got none. Never did. kitten anet.

Stay close. Simple enough. But then you get to last boss… there should be a warning if your a necromancer DELETE. And reroll a kittening guardian… where some kittened passive class ability can even eat the kitten insta kills.

Yeah now imagine all you have is a necro.
No blocks… no vigor… no regens… no jack…. Doesn’t matter how often I get to phase 2… i get rolled there simply because there is not a kitten thing I can except kill her before she ever manages to even land a hit on me in phase 2. Which is never going to happen. I guess someone could get super lucky… but not me. For me I even loose her as target and have to spend time and effort on finding her in a myriad of identical things.

Virlyce.4519:

Took a while, but I finally did it after many, many hours.

Now do it on a necromancer.

LinkR.6190:

How exactly are we supposed to counter the orb pulling us instantly into a triggering aoe blast? I just can’t seem to avoid it!

Orb dies in 1 hit from anything. Problem lies in oversized aoe and too much damage from autoattacks while everything else 1 shots you.

Watching kittening guardian eat 5+ hits in a row… just makes me want to punch ppl on anets kittened balance team.

Andele.1306:

spoj.9672:

So did you complete it Andele? Im gonna try the gauntlet tomorrow i think.

What do you think? https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/93064/gw932.jpg (just look at the QJ posts and youll see how i still feel about it even with all the additional effects used).

Dredlord.8076:

HiSaZuL.2843:

Dredlord.8076:

Here is a quicker check…
see if you have autotarget on in your options
if you do…then you aren’t pro…
if you don’t you still might not be pro but at least you aren’t a noob.

The most idiotic thing I have heard in a while. Considering necro has no leaps.

Considering leaps are not all that this is for, I guess you aren’t as pro as you thought you were. No need to bring idiocy into your posts though.

Well autotargeting doesnt really do anything for necros, most of our skills are aoe that then auto target the closes enemy to the middle of the aoe, so the location that youd drop the aoe onto a enemy in most cases…

Don’t forget about dark path getaways with blind casting. Tho there are some rare ocasions where its best to turn it off. Like when you deal with a lot of siege being clusterkittened and you don’t need siege you need the guy using it. But meh that is for me the only time I’d ever bother turning it off. Helps immensely as minion master since keybound targeting is horrid in this game.

Also… which aoe uses autotargeting? Marks don’t nether do wells or staff or scepter. O_o Unless you have some auto aoe casting option I never used?

Ohhhhh… Welp. I guess I’m mostly in your boat then.

I did finish that path and its the only path I ever did lol. To each his own I guess.

Also… ds crit talent/or ds crit preriod got nerfed too. I can barely crit with life blast with what should be almost 100% crit chance. Its like 4/10 hits crit >_>

And the winner was trident. Good bye trident.

My options as a shifter, being only limited by an almost 2 decade old engine, are mind blowing. I decide that instead of thinking here in this dimly lit room I might as well go back and start things off by draining the putrid culprits strength away as a shadow. By the time I drain all his strength away and he can’t even kill a necromancer, I’ll probably have some “evil genius” level ideas. So I done the form of spectral shade pop my improved invisibility and return to my offender. I proceed to drain his attack all the while thinking on what to do next. For some odd reason, probably still having a necro spec block, I can’t really come up with anything exceptionally creative. I get the usual turn into a walking octopus and bind blast that blasted ogre until he looks like he smoked a few pounds of weed in one go. Turning into a dragon and incinerating him on the spot. Turning into gargoly and while being properly nearly indestructible slowly and painfully drilling him down. Also had that passing idea of doing the whole kobold commando backstab and dropping him to a few hit points and poisoned and then stealthing away but that just caused a small amount of vomit to accumulate in my throat. When ogre stopped doing any damage to me I realised I still have no idea how to properly make the vile beast pay for the crime. Perhaps not having a proper body and only being a shade had something to do with lack of blood flow into my brain. So I switched to 8 or so legged drider tossed a darkness spell and started wandering about the room, remembering guild wars and my ever changing level and stats…. and then it HIT ME. Like a meteor right in the noggin! Eureka! Drain his levels to reduce his fortitude save and then petrify him! That’s it, from there the plan should just flow out like bad words on internet.

So I swapped to vampire shape and carefully proceeded to drain ogres levels, while making sure I don’t drop him to 0… that would just instantly kill him(bad for him but also bad for my ego). Once the deed was done and he looked like a newly made guardian w/o condition removal and shouts and healing, I turned into the hair dressers worst nightmare: Medusa. After intensely staring at my offender with her ever so gaudy hair style, poor sob turned into something that should be put next to McDonalds. A fat stone statue of disease ridden mass of putrid flesh.

And then… I hit another mental block. I still blame all the warriors here for repeatedly hitting me with blunt objects and making me fly about like a kite in huricane. So I ask you my fellow necromancers. What to do next. I honestly feel that this creature that can’t even hurt a necromancer, permanently downleveled to starting area and turned into a statue or cced for indefinite duration is not properly punished. I need ideas here! Or that patch… with some more mini games that will give me obscene objects sticking to my back.

Please excuse my grammar, English is my 3rd language. Also this is meant to be entertaining post nothing else.

So as I sat in my usual comfy chair browsing forums and waiting for inevitable disappointment know only to necromancers, in short a patch. A had a sudden urge to fire up old yet not “that” dusty copy of Neverwinter Nights. So I proceeded in my newly acquired endevour and loaded up the game. Loaded my usual shifter with a solution in form of a form, ah the irony, for any problem known to mankind. I must say, taking poop in water elemental shape negates any need for flushing, very handy in crypts and wilderness where access to proper waste disposal tools is “limited”. Must be that New-Yorker mentality of always remembering that you can get fined for leaving your… well… you know… in the middle of a road.

As my character loaded, I already started cooking up ideas on what best course of action to take for passing the time while I wait for patch and more temporary content that everyone will forget about in two weeks. The ideas were… fairly standard. Go loot a crypt, sell the booty, find hookers, get drunk… wake up and try not to look at who or what is next to you. After short deliberation I decided that a good dungeon run with a healthy load of face pummeling will do me some good, if nothing else it will help to at least temporary forget all the misery I have suffered in spvp, even dnd hardcore pnp rules aren’t as cruel ac CC in guild wars 2.

So here I was, strolling through some tunnels dispatching monster while changing shapes from animals to mighty dragons, to some old men on fire, to skeletons with scythes… must say that one looked a lot more intimidation then all my minions combined. All the while collecting my well deserved booty and other trinkets. I’m still not quite sure why zombies, worgs, bears, spiders and other manner of usual cave dwellers have money. Are there some 7-11 specially for video game npcs? Why wasn’t I ever told? But that is not important. As I made my way further down the “rabbit hole” slowly floating about as a small wyrmling with true sight being able to see everything including invisible stuff is refreshing after getting invisibility spammed by thiefs. I made a sharp turn only to be greeted with a rather sudden and not very friendly punch to the face. While not deadly in itself, even to a tiny flying lizard the pride took a lot more damage then I could have ever expected… I would have thought that after playing necromancer in guild wars, nothing could ever leave even a scratch on that unused aspect of my personality.

So here is where my sad tale begins. I stand there my pride in shambles, as shifter I’m supposed to be always aware and always adapting. Yet I was caugh off guard and worse off by a filthy disease ridden vile ogre. How sad is that. So much for true sight not seeing through walls. Anyway… greatly angered by sudden change of pace and unneeded reminder of my feeble skills as mortal in the world of video games and live steaming elite. I decide to punish the insolent beast for his/her/it transgression and vow to bring misery and despair on his/her/its hide.

First thing that pops into my mind filled with thoughts of retribution is that I need to get away and form a proper plan of action with maximum amount of pain and suffering per second. So I switch to another lizard form, also small but walking on two legs now, or more commonly known as kobold. Since I’m all epic and stuff that form is also epic and epicly has a “hide in plain sight” feat which allows something akin to what thiefs do in gw2. Hide in plain sight and its completely spam friendly… granted you can detect characters in stealth but in this case ogre is too dumb to ever accomplish that. So I stealth myself, turn back behind the corner and walk to a previously cleared room to formulate my course of action.

Bhawb.7408:

They never said that every build will be viable, they were merely talking to the fact that they want each class to have a number of roles available to it. That does not mean you can throw together some crap spec and go “BUT ANET WAI DIS SPEK NO WERK”, it means that each class has a number of viable builds and ways to play it.

No actually they did say something dangerously close to that. What they said to be specific was that you will be able to fill any role with any class. That was obvious load of b/s but they did make that claim.

MoJoe.9063:

No nerfs, they’ll just do bug fixes:

Fixed a bug where Spectral Armor was lasting for 6 seconds instead of 1.
Fixed a bug where Last Gasp was triggering at 50% health instead of 15%
Fixed a bug where Blood is Power only inflicted 2 stacks of bleeding on self instead of 10.
Fixed a bug where minions had infinite duration.
Fixed a bug where Necrotic Grasp could damage more than one target.
Fixed a bug where Spectral Wall applied protection to allies crossing it instead of fear.
etc.

That blood is power fix would actually be a HUGE buff for condition necros. Never going to happen.

Bhawb.7408:

Only if they make a cartoony effect where he falls on his butt and stars appear and circle around his head.

Heh thats so old school.

This isn’t for debate topic. Just fun little topic where people can take a jab at upcoming patch and possible trendy necro nerfs. There’s a lot of topics for suggestion/discussion/etc.

Anyway back to topic.
Lets keep em coming!

Wonder which one of us is angry/drunk but what ever makes your happy.

Lets guess what gets nerfed on 6th ladies and gentlemen. Make a bet. Who amongst you can see the future!

Personal favorite spectral walk… I can almost smell the neft to it. But its obvious too.
Also expecting minion nerfs. Don’t ask why… Just a feeling.

1 shot thru 30 points in sr ds with soldiers gear and ~90% LF I readily believe in wvw. Been there. Can’t instantly do that again tho. Would take a bit before next wtf you are dead card out of thiefs kitten .
Anyway thief class is broken in this game and it has nothing to do with damage.
NOBODY. EVER. Should be able to reset/undetectable invis with spamable capabilities. That is not stealth its bullkitten. No matter how fragile/weak against “insert anything here” that has no kittening place, ever in any mmo that claims to be at average level. In esport? While I couldn’t care less for that ego fest, even more true then normally.
And again has nothing to do with kittened damage.

manveruppd.7601:

Softspoken.2410:

However, the loss of allied condition transfer is positively infuriating.

I didn’t even notice that! I was still blithely chucking Putrid Marks in the middle of fights thinking I was cleansing my allies!!!! That’s just terrible, was it even mentioned anywhere?

No, anet doesn’t give enough kitten to even says so. They didn’t when they dropped putrid from unlimited conditions to 5, they didn’t when they dropped it to 3 and they didn’t when it stopped working on allies.

Bhawb.7408:

Sentinel.5731:

It would be interesting to know what the goal was, so far nobody has come on with a large amount of Love for the new models, or are those people just quiet?

Flesh Golem aside, the new models are better in my mind. The old Bone Minion models were god-awful, the new ones I like much better (rats fit necromancy just fine), shadow fiend is ADORABLE, and he used to be tied to DS so it fits. The only ones that I don’t like are Bone Fiend (its not bad, its just meh) and Flesh Golem.

Well I would disagree on bone minions… but at least we can all agree golem looks like a fail.

Part where it should be merged and redone is good discussion. Part where people whine about it being useless because they don’t run minions is what makes me want to slap myself for even trying.
And the whole topics point was about jagged horrors being well worth it when they are used in their own field. Not some imaginary “this trait kills me”, it does nothing, its horrible qq, QQ, NERF IT, BAAAAAAAA etc.
Protection of the horde had nothing to do with topic. And fact remains its broken to begin with or it should clearly state it has a cap which makes it hardly noticeble minions or not.

I take it back… common sense just suddenly took a dive. Why are you bringing protection of the horde into this? Hm? Last I checked it was broken to begin with so I fail to see what the heck your trying to prove with that.

… a 4% base crit chance bumped to 9% chance to that would imply something like 9 out of 100 hits statistically. So yeah sure its close to 1 out of 10 hits. But it remains at 100 damage total in two ticks that it will do. That is a joke damage. That will not accomplish anything. Pve or pvp.

You went from having a good idea to usual forum rainbow vomit.

Bhawb.7408:

Listen, I run MM all the time, its the only thing I do in PvP. There should not be a trait in the game that is essentially useless until you spend more trait points on it. Barbed Precision is a great trait because it is useful on its own (extra damage, and nice extra damage) but also because it scales perfectly with its own tree; the more you go into the tree the stronger the trait is.

Reanimator on the other hand is incredibly weak unless you spend at least 25 more trait points.

Scales perfectly is debatable. It doesn’t scale to anything if you can’t crit withing a resonable time frame.
Again if I take 10 points in curses so my tank can use ground targeted wells. How does that trait do anything. Except 88 damage once every 3 minutes MAYBE.
I’m sorry but 88 damage is like …. can it even kill a critter with that? Jagged doesn’t need a stat to proc a bleed that lasts twice as much.

One thing is to make a good argument like the guy above and another is to just whine that waaaah… i want staff… why doesn’t it benefit me. Nerf it. That’s just… meh that sounds like a pvp whine fest where the only thing matters is how loud you whine that x class is whopping you in pvp.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Reanimator, as much as I do actually like the trait, really should be merged with Minion Master as an Adept Major (keep the name, though, since “Reanimator” also works for re-summoning dead minions). Protection of the Horde, if it stays, should likewise be merged with Flesh of the Master. This second one should be the higher priority as the trait is genuinely useless unless you devote most of your skill bar to it.

For once someone with a common sense. I feel like these forums are about to implode.

Again useless unless X. Everything in this game is useless w/o other things supporting it. Same as barbed precision. Useless unless I have enough crit to actual proc it in less then 5 minute window. Heal on kill is useless until I actually you know… kill something it. Glottony is useless until I do something that actually generates life force.
Death shroud is useless w/o life force. And Dps is useless if you are dead. Etc.

Blaine Tog.8304:

HiSaZuL.2843:

Blaine Tog.8304:

HiSaZuL.2843:

Lets say you are running 30 spite/30 sr/10 curses. For a death shroud spambot spec in spvp in full soldiers. With wells. I take 10 in curses solely for ground targeted wells. Barbed as great as it is… is utterly useless for me since I only crit in DS and with soldiers gear that bleed is sad and hardly useful for anything other then hiding vuln/chill stacks.

Barbed gives you more more condition damage when you crit, two stats which you certainly have in some degree because you took points in Curses.

Which part of soldiers gear you missed? A useless for my spec trait is still useless. Jagged horror will do infinitely more bleeding damage then barbed precision if I have no crit chance due to running tank build of some kind. Rendering any thought train of that kind simply invalid. If it doesn’t proc its a dead weight trait.
I’m sorry to break it since you didn’t read the very first post. But 350 damage + 5 seconds bleed is not nothing its far more then a trait that doesn’t scale nor procs for me.

You missed my point entirely.

If you’re in Curses, you necessarily have more crit chance and condition damage. Barbed is a condition applicator that scales with crit chance.

If you’re in Death, you necessarily have more Toughness and Boon Duration, so it’s largely a defensive tree. Jagged Horrors provide no defensive benefit

It’s totally possible that you may want 10 points in Curses for one of the Major traits while Barbed is just sorta superfluous to your build, but you have to take the stats that power Barbed in order to get it at all. This means that there are gradations of synergy with Barbed, but there’s always some synergy. Jagged Horrors, on the other hand, are are just sorta… there. Doing their own thing. Regardless of whether they make sense for your build. Whether they’re good or not is beside the point.

HiSaZuL.2843:

People need to be honest. You want kitten to be tailed to your spec and as soon as it isn’t here comes the whine fest.

We like customization. Reanimator fights that to a greater degree than

For me personally jagged heals me for 120 damage every 2 seconds… Not defensive enough? It provides weakness. Still not enough? In masks my vulnerability with bleed and poison and weakness. Not enough? It feeds me life force.

And in the context of being in soldiers gear tanky spec if I have both barbed precision and jagged horror I will get a truck load more bleeding out of jagged horor then barbed. Still utterly pointless argument as far as im concerned and biased.

Imagine that… there are people who play with minion specs. And jaggeds provide more then any other minor trait out there combined. Keep advocating that those people should be nerfed because you want staff traits. Keep the nerf trait going.

Sieg.8439:

Softspoken.2410:

Enundr.9305:

Softspoken.2410:

Enundr.9305:

Softspoken.2410:

rager.4963:

Took a break since release, came back to see what is up. Was in the mood for a necro. Use to love them in EQ and other games.. Come to the forum to check out pet builds and stuff.

Holy kittens batman. The aura in this forum makes me want to cry. Is necromacers really that bad?

How bad are pets? I mean I see people saying they are bugged, but they got to be useful for something right? I don’t see them leaving them worthless for this long.

In the forum’s defense, the most recent patch had a few nerfs in it that were pretty unexpected, so there’s a lot of recent upheaval.

In my opinion, the only major bug with minions right now is that Flesh Golem despawns if it enters deep water. They’ve actually gotten downright snappy in their response times with recent updates: I urge you to try them yourself and see how well they do or don’t react to your commands.

its not necesarily a bug , due to that the water skill set doesnt allow flesh golem to live , only got plague form in underwater combat (aka deep water) , so the flesh golem cant chase anything underwater.

It sort of is? All other minions, regardless of if they are equipped on the underwater bar, are capable of crossing water as long as the necromancer is not submerged. They don’t do anything once they’re in there, to my knowledge, but they don’t self-despawn. Flesh Golem can actually run itself into deep water without the necromancer even entering swim mode, and sacrifice itself for no apparent reason.

To be clear, it isn’t about actively using Flesh Golem underwater, since that’s clearly marked by the game as impossible. It’s the way a deep enough puddle to trigger ‘swimming’ mode is a sort of landmine that will instantly kill Flesh Golem, even if nobody else in the fight is underwater.

all other minions are able to be used under water normally…..as in their skills can be equipped in the utility slots…..the flesh golem cannot be equipped in the underwater elite skill slot XD

Yeah, I don’t think you’re reading what I’m saying. It shouldn’t matter if the flesh golem can be equipped underwater, since it’s not about using it underwater, but about making it go across / over water.

Edit: VVV Infinite loop detected, aborting conversational path. VVV

If by across/over you mean swimming at the surface of submergable water without diving, it’s still not a bug. Flesh Golem will despawn instantly when the Necromancer enters submergable water, skimming at the top or not. As for the Flesh Golem despawning by running itself into submergible water while the Necromancer is still on land… I have never seen that happen, and I’ve put hundreds of hours into my MM build. Not a bug.

@ sieg Wrong on all accounts.
Crossing deep water w/o diving doesn’t despawn golem you simply have about ~3 seconds to cross before he dies due to being in water for too long. As long as you never dived(had your skills swapped to underwater set) and stay in the swimming above mode where you have no access to skills at all it doesn’t count as swapping to underwater mode.
Golem charge into water very often results in golem dying because he spends too much time in deep water and gets despawned.
Hell… I don’t even need to ender deep water or charge golem into deep water to drown him. All I need to do is run next to deep water with golem following me on the deep water side as soon as he tries to follow me on that side few seconds later he dies.

If I had to take a guess he doesn’t have water collision/physics mechanics. When they initially robed him of his swimming they simply choped it out and didn’t bother to even do it properly. There are npcs that swap to water physics and there are those who do not. Its easy to check because some can’t enter water. And there are npcs that are no affected by water in any way/shape/form. Golem likely is the 3rd with the exception that it was done inproperly and for him water counts as out of collision/ think outside map boundaries where you infinitely fall. And that is what kills him.

Blaine Tog.8304:

HiSaZuL.2843:

Lets say you are running 30 spite/30 sr/10 curses. For a death shroud spambot spec in spvp in full soldiers. With wells. I take 10 in curses solely for ground targeted wells. Barbed as great as it is… is utterly useless for me since I only crit in DS and with soldiers gear that bleed is sad and hardly useful for anything other then hiding vuln/chill stacks.

Barbed gives you more more condition damage when you crit, two stats which you certainly have in some degree because you took points in Curses.

Which part of soldiers gear you missed? A useless for my spec trait is still useless. Jagged horror will do infinitely more bleeding damage then barbed precision if I have no crit chance due to running tank build of some kind. Rendering any thought train of that kind simply invalid. If it doesn’t proc its a dead weight trait.
I’m sorry to break it since you didn’t read the very first post. But 350 damage + 5 seconds bleed is not nothing its far more then a trait that doesn’t scale nor procs for me.

People need to be honest. You want kitten to be tailed to your spec and as soon as it isn’t here comes the whine fest.

I’m done here. All I ever see in this game is nerf this/make this work for me/l2p/and anet ignoring anything that doesn’t interest them.

Maybe I’m wrong… I was sure I ran into a situation where I couldn’t trident cheese. Hmm… Maybe I’m confusing it with something else.

They even reused the worst one they had for two types of minions. Bone minion and jagged horrors/lich version of them. Ughh. Rats? Really? And yeah low-res textures and fairly uninspiring textures to begin with. Wurm is probably my favorite one because he doesn’t look like an appendage amputated from a mutant but he doesn’t move >_>

You seen risen shark? That is the epitome of AWESOME. Hell risen grubs look wicked. Abomination make golem look like like a failed asura experiment with sex golems.

Trident has high tendency to ignore LoS. As in you sit in water under rock/behind wall etc and yet you can freely hammer anything withing range no matter what is between you and target.

Candy Corn golem gives life force… yeah I know. But it still funny to load up on it when you have no other source to get it.

Agree that tragectory feels less then it should be but hey… speed is nice. Still no excuse for putrid mark latest nerf.

Okay… I’ll make the last ditched attempt to illustrate my point. lol

Lets say you are running 30 spite/30 sr/10 curses. For a death shroud spambot spec in spvp in full soldiers. With wells. I take 10 in curses solely for ground targeted wells. Barbed as great as it is… is utterly useless for me since I only crit in DS and with soldiers gear that bleed is sad and hardly useful for anything other then hiding vuln/chill stacks.
Should I say barbed sucks… and curses should be changed simply because a trait relevant to skills that aren’t condition based is there? No. Hell no. I wanted that skill thats why I put points there. Nothing in that tree including passives does anything for me, except maybe LF on crit… but even then it would be kind of iffy since I only crit in DS.

@Andele Yeah… wurm is not the best. But for wvw at times when we have much fewer numbers considering we always… always… have SoR with their swarm… having utility bar filled with stun breaks does wonders. I don’t really care if its not the best. It gives me a blink which is huge for me. When I need to get back to tower that has a 100 people aoe spaming the living hell out of it, a well placed wurm near entrance can give me that saving dash w/o which I would have got wrecked and never made it to the gate.

Also as necro… I find myself heavily abusing anyone who goes into lich form. Stripping 1 measly buff and nullifying any advantage that form has is very simply after thakittens just funny to watch a huge green target getting tossed around.

Softspoken.2410:

---

Hey now, I didn’t say I dislike minions.
*
Minions just do not have wide enough play and availability on necromancers to justify devoting a trait line to them. If they were available on weapon skills I could see it, but as is, they are not.
*

Again… you make it fairly clear you dislike minions and you don’t want them and advocate for dumping minions in favor of something that works for you.

If you simply said trait lines on necro make no sense and they are horrid. We would agree. If you said trait is lacking… I agreed with that in my first post. If you said it drives you nuts that your character comments the passing of every minion including jagged horrors… I would agree. But you didn’t you went on and on about how minions are niche, horrible, not viable… shouldn’t be there period and you want something that works for “insert a spec here”.

If your guardian specs into bunker with shout healing… he is forced to take shouts. Just like minion master is forced to take minions when you specs into minions. That train of thought that they aren’t optional enough is just invalid. Plenty of people take golem because it provides all benefits and no drawbacks unlike the other 2 elites that are absurdly situational. Same for flesh worm…. again it can do what it does w/o needing minion spec I’ve seen plenty of necros use it for stun break in wvw long before we got well of power got turned into stun break(now its probably weakest stun break compared in versatility but thats anet fault and id still agrue that crap signet that needs a target and rarely lands is worse then blink stun break). Bone minions once again they can be taken for aoe+combo finisher on short cd. Was farming… few people got together and made a party and shortly after we ended up with a nice aoe farming party… I was asked specifically by eles and mes to get my bone minions out to finish their blast finisher rotation. Just because you think something is worthless/niche/horrible/nobody wants it doesn’t mean its true.

If you take offense in examples on how people act entitled that only speaks of your own issues it does not mean I ever said so to you directly or indirectly.

So your idea, because you simply dislike minions is to shaft it all, because you want staff skills not on curses line or any other place you already have points. But you can’t deal with compromise on minor traits that are in that line… That’s silly man.

Thats like me saying hey… I’m MM but I want barbed precision because it would nicely buff my damage so yeah. I guess could you guys move it to spite or something so I can have it too. I mean I have to take points there might as well be useful to me.
Or a thief saying… welp… I want more then 3 traits from shadow arts so… imo dump something in other line and replace it with stuff I want.

Just having stats wont make barbed useful. Just having crit damage won’t make barbed do much… just having condition won’t make barbed do anything at all. And having both on spec that has 0 codition duration would make for a mediocre at best boost that would hurt other condition users instead of helping.

People are so kitten entitled. We want staff but we can’t deal with minor trait in that line even tho its one of the most dedicated to minions line and the trait is minion related.
Deal with it. Its the most necromantic trait from the whose trashy cesspool that is necromancer traits. Yet everyone wants everything to be tailored to what they play. This is no better then every mesmer crying about necro “damage”. No better then any thief whining about perma fears. No better then spvp forum witch hunting mob.

Pfft… so dedicated to minions… it has no more dedication to minions then curses has dedication to conditions.
No more dedication to minions then water tree is dedicated to healing/cleansing on ele.
No more dedication to minions then arcane is dedicated to atunments.
No more dedicated to minions then soul reaping is dedicated to DS.
If there is something there that you want. You put points on it and deal with passive bonuses. If you want 15 points trait from SR you take the whole package even if you do not care one bit about DS or LF.
You want clensing on ele…. welp guess what you are stuck with water tree. You want to swap atunments on ele not once a year but faster…. guess what? Arcane.

And considering minion master is stuck with minions and nothing else and single spec that is most hurt when skills are down… yeah… both boon duration and toughness make a whole lot of sense. Just because you disagree doesn’t mean one spec should be scraped just for thakittens there and thats how it was made. And frankly as far as I’m concerned minions and tanking make a lot more sense then anything else.

Softspoken.2410:

Now to look at Barbed Precision, (a 5 point minor I think is excellently designed) it’s not worth much without condition damage or precision (or, more obviously, both) but those stats are available via equipment, not other traits. As well, it’s in the trait line for precision / condition damage, so at least it works well with what you’re getting.

By comparison, Reanimator isn’t worth much without other minion traits. This means that the 5 point minor is weak unless you’re invested in a particular way with other traits, which I would argue is a more restricting condition. As well, this tree is one of the only ways to gain boon duration, and spamming mark of blood on jagged horror just seems like a waste.

So basically the part in bold. You state it yourself it isn’t worth much if you aren’t speced into conditions have gear to support it and have precision to proc it. Yet you at the same time say jagged is bad because it mostly has best benefits for minion spec. I just simply don’t understand this logic.

Going by this “Oh noes wells that don’t scale with condition in condition tree” Must be worthless/broken/wrong/blah blah.

That trait is in the tree with highest amount of minion related traits. If you want staff related traits deal with it. Same as you have to deal with the fact that fear duration is in tree that doesn’t deal with conditions in any meaningful way. And a whole lot of other examples.

Moving it to curse line… really?… So actual condition trait line that doesn’t use minions would get it? Where is the logic behind that? Death tree is where most minion traits are. Sadly they are also spread around across blood and even one in spite master which is required.

Jagged applies bleed and does damage I fail to see how it does less considering barbed only works with condition spec. You basically compare a trait that only worth having if you are condition with crit chance to a trait that work always… not in best way but it always works at least.

Also besides jagged and barbed every other minor is garbage of epic proportions. Why the bloody hell would I care about a measly 1k heal after something is dead already… in pvp in a zerg that makes no difference what so ever if you need healing you are getting hammered and that 1k is a drop in an ocean in pve its largely redundance unless you are farming as melee spec.
Don’t even get me started on 75% hp regen… That is an utter disgrace.
Gluttony… sure… great. Except its once again situational. If you don’t generate life force then what in gods green earth does that trait do exactly? 10% increase of 2% is not even visible. Unless trait gives a large chunk in one go that traits usefulness is practically negligible.

Is one jagged enough. No. There should be a whole lot more. And they should spawn in some different way too so that they don’t work in same redundant way as healing after you killed your target already.

Barbed doesn’t proc nonstop chance is far from 100%(It is a great trait with a right spec) but completely take things out of context. Again… comparing a trait that also only works on the right spec with another that only works on right spec is just silly.

Death tree holds most nessesary traits for minion master along with blood. So what? Should all minion traits be thrown out because staff happens to be tossed there? What kind of obscure logic is that?

Our trees are horrid true but suggestions like that just make things even worse. Kind of as horrid as having condition duration on a tree that pretty much exclusively power tree with exception to utterly out of place fire(useless now outside of pve and most likely going to get nerfed to kitten in pve too).

Also, unlike most of traits/skilsl of this class it does feel necromatic… unlike some bizzare nonsense like fire. Or armor skill w/o stability. And so on.

LastDay.3524:

Andele.1306:

or a lot of yuri

Now we are talking!

That… pretty much. I still want my sexy undead nurse healing minion. And turrets.

This minor 5 point trait generates an unjustified amount of crying. So lets instead of crying look at this trait from a few different perspectives.

Minion Master: 20/0/30/20/0 (full exotic/ascended berserker gear with ruby orbs).
Jagged horror hits for ~350 damage and applies 5 second of bleeding with every attack, at base condition damage that is 44 damage a tick with 2 stacks being maintained by jagged horror. When it dies death nova hits for ~1.1k aoe damage and applies roughly 12 seconds of aoe poison, at base condition damage thats 86 damage per tick. Also provides a field that provides weakness on blast finishers and as minion master you have 3 semi reliable(jagged horror will most likely be right there next to bone minions).
On comparison, 1 bone minion hits for ~210 damage with same attack speed and applies no bleed. Putrid explosion… assuming full berserker does about double death novas damage.
Each hit if I have loodthirst heals me for 120 on comparison I heal myself for 42 every hit tho I hit a lot faster.(Imagine all minions healing me with all their hits and blood fiend pumping 1k that the the highest passive healing out there).
And some life force… admittedly not something all that lacking on minion master build but its FREE.

Condition: x/30/5/x/x Any variation here really as long as it involves condition necro that has jagged horror.
Numbers are about the same you simply lower the damage by 30% from previous example and remove death nova. But… that bleeding from jagged horror increases in duration by a very much noticeable amount, minion master only has 20% increase from 20 points in spite and duration is 5 seconds something, condition necro would have that doubled not to mention damage from that bleed could tick 130+ easily. And life force when it dies… which is SORELY lacking on condition necromancer that goes in for pure conditions with scepter/staff.

Anything really… that doesn’t involve training of the master 30% damage increase, condition duration/damage.
It still provides a small damage coupled with bleed. And life force when it dies.

Now for the rant.
How is this nothing worth mentioning exactly? Why do people consistently spit on this trait as if it cusses their mother and steals their children? That is far FAR from nothing. We have an utterly pointless no matter the situation traits all over the place, some grand master traits that are just SAD. And this is a 5 point minor trait. Jezuz bloody fiend grandmother.

Some wishful thinking:
I’d love for this trait to go back to having a cap on how many jagged horrors can be alive at once. With cooldown we already can have 2 but it overlaps and makes a mess forcing to usually waste them on travel.

War Mourner.5168:

trident 5 is also a blast finisher.

Spear has finisher on everything except… #3… and umm… #4.

But seriously… water? All you get in water are poison fields from minions and trident #3 self comboing on its own use.

It doesn’t get blocked it simply never lands. Projectile for corrupt boon travels on ground level and targets feet so any small object with collision box can cause los. And because skills here don’t give a flying kitten on whether they will/wont hit all you get is cooldown.