Guild Wars 2

Lilith Ajit.6173:

I think the only thing they can do to actually make this right is to have enough QA to make sure a fiasco like this doesn’t happen again, so have those designers’ designs looked at by someone who KNOWS the game and what everything is, so they don’t make a mistake like this in the future.

the official response where it was announced that they were going to remove it no matter what said very specifically that they “wanted to use the t3 human cultural armor mesh” in other words they knew exactly what they were releasing, the rest about “we didnt think it was visually distinct enough” is a load of BS because nobody involved at any step of the way would have had to go very far to put the two up next to eachother. They over reacted to cry babies, and screwed paying customers…this is the reason for the outrage every bit as much as the skin itself, the time it took to put this monstrosity out, the lack of effort (cause their art people were busy putting hearts on weapon skins)… Screwed out of real money because babies who didn’t spend cried, forced to sit and shiver for 2 whole months, given the soiled diaper of those babies in replacement at the same time they released a load of brand new weapon skins…

They knew exactly what they were doing when they made it, they let that much slip…they just refuse to admit they were more wrong to ignore, alienate and slime paying customers with a terrible redux.

Raine.1394:

Yeah, sorry, the simple use of a market is not abuse. Making gold through the TP is not a problem. Someone needs an economics class.

Market manipulation on the scales I’ve seen in some youtube videos are criminal irl though for the very reason the OP is pointing out… Markets like any low level greatsword selling for more than 1 gold each just because it’s stats are by far the best (as in overpowered compared to others for what you are reasonably expected to perform) for any kind of level, and not even for a skin…daggers, 1 handed swords and staves too in many cases.. It is a heartbreaking problem for anyone not willing to drop that kind of money (or more to make their own) into a low level character.

That said, as the quote suggests, the things they have done so far (with those youtube videos of 12+ accounts being used on the trade post off a single computer at once being a probably exception) is within the rules, and anyone leveling up or looking for new gear has no recourse against it

Maybe make it available again in the game but through the mystic force:

Ingredients (for the chest piece, but others are simular)
1 Sorcerer’s coat (the current cultural T3 skin)
1 Zojja’s Berserker Insignia (or any other ascended insiginia, but the type will determine the stats on the final item)
50 bloodstone bricks
25 Glob’s of Dark matter

and to this… ONLY if it comes out of the toilet ascended with the stats of whatever insignia I so chose to throw in with it, otherwise I would stay a second rate citizen paying all that extra above and beyond the cost of the original… Though tbh, with slightly reduced costs, i might go for something like that but less drastic if it returned the actual sorcerer’s coat, ascended stats and without the flames

EDIT: To point out because it’s the type of thing overlooked easily: currently you can only buy the sorcerer’s coat on a human, so that would need to be changed across the board with cultural armor vendors for this to work

mercury ranique.2170:

Can I ask a question to those who liked the old flamekissed armor??
What would you find a fair solution?

And do not say, to keep the old skin. This was griefing many players who bought t3 cultural armor so thats not an option.

The reason I’m asking is that it is in my opinion time to stop crying over something that’s not going to change, but to think of solutions that might give Anet idea’s.

They have the old flamekissed skin.
Maybe make it available again in the game but through the mystic force:

Ingredients (for the chest piece, but others are simular)
1 Sorcerer’s coat (the current cultural T3 skin)
1 Zojja’s Berserker Insignia (or any other ascended insiginia, but the type will determine the stats on the final item)
50 bloodstone bricks
25 Glob’s of Dark matter

The result will be (with this type of insignia) an ascended version off the old flamekissed coat with beserkers stats.
Off course, the limitation would and should be that it is for only humans to maintain the cultural armor status.

If you continue this, Anet could make all cultural skins flamekissed (well the style, it should be named different off course) and make it upgradable in a simular way.

Well, get my old skin back, but they can keep this new effluent in the gem store for whoever wants it.
Then take the old skin and make a permanent merchant who will sell it for the same gold price as any other t3 armor, and add more cultural armors with (hopefully) different, and maybe slightly less tacky particles to said merchant, only making tweaks to make potentially poor interactions with the armor mesh and frame normalized…and sell it all to any race for the same price as any other pieces of t3 cultural armor: 18g, 20g, 25, and 30g …or totaling 119g iirc

Even if they dont give me back my old armor, give me the gems and the transmute crystals to undo this violation and ill put the gems they give me back toward the gold value of the redo…that works as well. In fact, it would blow my mind to see new stuff (or redone old stuff) come available without having to dunk my bank account into the mystic toilet, have it stolen by mimics (black lion chests), or risk anymore real money on the gem store where they can charge real money and replace it as they please with ZERO legal risk to themselves… this would just blow my mind. Oo

DPrime.3954:

My big question is, why has Anet not commented on this at all? We’re 8 pages in. Anet has been monitoring the forum and merging topics.

As Anet how to do you feel about your lack of integrity, by first destroying the value of human T3 culture armor, and then recanting the armor upsetting a paying player base?

I understand the screwed if you do and screwed if you don’t, but who messed up so bad to let this legitimately come into play. There are over 300 employees at Anet, did not one person speak up and say this was a bad idea?

They have deleted a number of my posts, so somebody there is seeing it, they can’t come out and say anything because they laid a trap and then stepped right into. They already said “oops my bad” one time, and to admit they made a bigger one is something that any bad politician’s PR people would make doomsday scenario’s to make the company/individual avoid.
That and I started the entire CS dance about 36 hours ago and it isn’t resolved yet because I am asking if there is a better recourse for what has happened to me (see a post of mine above why the feathered is functionally wrong as a mesh all together) because this renders 2 entire characters of mine so fugly i can’t stand to look at them to play.
So no, and i doubt they are ever going to make a comparable skin to what was lost either, considering all that has been released as new skins since launch, and the fact that only ONE light armor functionally works perfectly on all races… I think whatever talent designed that armor has long since left arenanet.

KOPPER.1458:

More like third class or lower since we lost something we paid for on the complaints of those who didn’t

There are different ways to “pay” for things.

Some how I doubt that if someone bought the armor they wanted it taken away or changed. If they bought it, then I would guess they liked it.

IT IS THE ONLY GOOD LOOKING LIGHT ARMOR SKIN THAT BALANCES SEXY, CLASSY AND AN AIR OF POWER PROPERLY

This is an opinion, not everyone shares it.

Gem store is a real money store primarily, it’s entire design and the items and deals it offers are meant to bring in real money. The fact you can get gems with in game gold or the rare occasion with achievement points is totally secondary to the entire point of the thing. It is reasonable to assume “most” used a gem purchase to buy the armor, something arenanet is perfectly capable of finding out for themselves if they so wanted considering the thing was on sale for less than a day.

Then maybe we should replace current human t3 with the feathered stuff?

Go look at the sets on actual characters… feathered was designed from the ground up to go on the human armor model, check the proportions, how it accentuates that better-than barbie figure, and the specific placement of each specific piece of the set on the model. It’s perfect, bland, rather more like something a fancy prostitute or a showgirl might wear, but you clearly like it.
Compare if you can, the flamekissed armor. Similarly (as with all armor designs) it is set around the human figure. What made that one, and the human t3 as well, different is that it was one of a kind in it’s ability to wrap around the frames of any race’s armor mesh without some piece of it becoming stretched too thin, shrunk too small, or having odd gaps in the pieces blown out of proportion by said stretching. Nor did it suffer from things looking out of place when they got made unusually large and were pushed out of reasonable position (norn shoulders on the females specifically because the armor mesh is based more so on those grotesque male figures).

This is functional stuff beyond the simple (but quite true) statement that my norns went from looking like goddesses to looking like street walkers. The flamekissed (and human t3 by extention) is the only armor in the entire game designed so well that it fits perfectly for what it is no matter what race or gender you so happen to throw it on. THAT is a functional success, feathered and the new flame-scammed are a prime example of a poorly designed light armor for the way they chose to build the system.

And it should be noted, I despise the art and visual appearance of humans and sylvari, it is what led me to chose norn, but as you see above, my feeling is driven as much by the functional issues of the only normalized-humanoid (not bug-eyed grimlins), non-juvenile (humans), and not twisted looking (sylvari who i feel should resemble caithe or faolin way more than they do)… Did i bring this upon myself? Game is about looks, so am I wrong to feel entitled to having access to some look that is functionally feasible, balanced properly on the character, overtly sexual without having to show half her butt crack in rather poor taste and form as a band-aid for bad fantasy fashion? Sylvari and humans with all the issues that drive me to avoid rolling them both have armor sets that pull it off, why not the norns too? The replacement here certainly doesn’t meet any of those aesthetic wants of mine. Justify why norns dont have this yet. (or anymore)

How about a little more fuel for thsi fire: they have legal protection from giving cash refunds, its written into those ula agreements… but, since they really did screw people out of real money over this, should they not have put this idea up for vote among the people who had this new effluent crammed down our throats? At least then we would know for sure a “majority” of people liked whatever the final product would have been… I’d have been able to keep it a bit cooler on this issue if I had some say, even if only limited to an indirect up/down on whatever idea they put forth.

EDIT: And keep in mind, the scope of this is VERY narrow, and would only apply to those who bought the armor in question, and could be applied to inevitable future foul ups along similarly narrow circumstances… main thing being; real money was spent on a very, very easily defined product, and it got pulled for whatever reason after the money is spent and with no risk of damaged to the merchant(s) involved in selling them… I think we deserve at least that consideration.

Thelgar.7214:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

There were plenty of people that purchased it that agreed that it should not have been a t3 reskin.

There are plenty of people that do like the reskin. More who have since purchased it because they like the reskin better….

Conversely there are those that liked neither. Those that didn’t really mind the t3 reskin. Those that didn’t bother buying either.

They cannot please everyone. You don’t like the reskin. Fine, that’s your right.

Even if the assertion that “plenty” like the new armor and there are “more” who have purchased it is accurate, it doesn’t change the fact that ArenaNet took one side in an argument between two parties in the player base, giving one side everything they wanted while showing no acknowledgement of or concern for the desires or feelings of the other side.

They didn’t even apologize to the people who bought and liked the original armor and wanted to keep it. The resentment some people are feeling right now is justified. They haven’t just had something they bought taken away from them, they’ve been treated like they are second-class people throughout the process.

+1’d
More like third class or lower since we lost something we paid for on the complaints of those who didn’t.

And people who thought it was wrong but bought anyway: Why? You void your own arguments for removal pointing out these people, it’s why this set made it into the gem store in the first place: IT IS THE ONLY GOOD LOOKING LIGHT ARMOR SKIN THAT BALANCES SEXY, CLASSY AND AN AIR OF POWER PROPERLY. They didn’t like it but bought anyway, I see them either grabbing a deal for their humans, getting something that was/is completely peerless compared to anything else, or maybe thinking that something like this was eventually going to be done with other cultural armors. If they bought it, thought it was wrong, and started demanding it be taken away, that particular sub-set of those who felt it’s sale unjust should be ignored for being hypocrites…the rest are screwed every bit as bad as people like me who grabbed a peerless armor skin, and ignored the totally tacky flames that really made the set second-rate to what humans (and asuran npcs) still get anyway.

Belzebu.3912:

Ascended armor for the alts is actually really hard.
Ascended weapons for alts is not that bad, just don’t try to make full weapon sets for all your 5+ toons
Ascended trinkets is pretty easy for your toons, 3 of my toons have full ascened trinkets (and I don’t play fractals) so yeah … go for it.

Correct, but the weapons issue is that some of the ascended weapons skins are quite nice, but red and poop brown or ebony and cornsilk are not the colors i wanna match to… so any ascended stats i want on weapons (thx to whoever put the kabosh on weapon dye channels in early development and kept kitten-caning until people quit regularly asking for it) means that if i also want the asc skin, i have to make 2 weapons, and there was no reason ever to make asc weapons require a full vision crystal. Im not even mad over the other mats…i can get over spending gold…but weeks of boredom just to put 2-3 armor pieces and average 5 weapons on 4-5 (3 characters now i guess since the flamekiss groin-stomp voided the only thing that made my norn ele and mesmer tolerable to play) but yes, i am still looking at needing 30,000-40,000 of some mats that come in 30 at the time from events that i’ve never, ever, ever wanted to run as primary anything… indeed, i generally try to stay as far away from these things as i can and only might go if one happens to pop on a map i so happen to be standing in. This is why ascended crafting isnt alt friendly.

Game is perfectly alt-friendly so long as you have no reason ever (like friends) to step foot in high level fractals…exotic gear is quite easy to get and you are only nerfed 5% in exchange for never getting into fractal level 50…until they finally get around to altering that too.

Beldin.5498:

Depends on if you think you MUST have Legendarys and full ascended. In that case its not alt friendly. If you are fine with exotics and some nice cheaper skins its totally alt friendly

compared to endless cycles of the same old 6 or 7 meta events, grinding the legendary was a ray of sunshine, followed by a cool spring breeze, followed by a long walk in the park, and then a swim in the lakes of heaven… because for that, at least i was able to get it doing things i actually enjoy.

OKAY! FINE…except hearts and pve exploring wvw, the second was kind of unfair.. but w/e, at least it was something DIFFERENT constantly and hitting the meta grinder even then was purely optional, not half of everything i had to do.

Side note: increasing the dragonite drops from keeps and castle in wvw isnt going to bring me into wvw… those things almost never flip during my timezone’s hours so that change was…stupid, sorry..but it was.

Creeper.9360:

what if my “endgame” is just playing the game? does that count as endgame?

don’t you think the term means different things to different people? And why is it called endgame anyway, does the game actually end? I know it comes from chess but to use the term in an mmo, where the game is not supposed to end, seems a bit of a misnomer.

something that nobody actually quite gets, so i give them the rather real goal of making yourself as shiny and pretty as you can, then doing it on another character, and another, and another. 4-5 should be quite reasonable… and you will learn the ins and outs of all the classes, all the fights, and the majority of what you like and don’t…then hit the forums here and try your best not to be angry over what isn’t right at the moment…

Grind ascended for a few of those alts, you will hate your life, hate the time spent in game, and hate everyone associated with it… even worse if the ascended skin you really want has the most useless stats in the entire game (healing power primary attribute in my case). You will learn the meaning of bored, the meaning of hate, and you will be reminded why you stayed away from “korean style grinders” in the first place

Mastra.6430:

Heyo. I havent played GW2 since last fall. Hit 80 and moved on. But im starting to get the itch to play again.

I was planning on coming back. start a new character. But im curious on how the end game is currently. Or if there is any. That way i can still have that drive to play knowing that at 80 that wont be it really.

Thanks

We dont raid for the next level of fugly armor in gw2…we grind epic and annoying for shiney, pretty and dragonite and empyreal (ascended crafting) if you only play one character, this will all be over quite fast… then pick your poison.. i just dont recomend gem store armors until they been out for a few weeks so you dont lose real money when someones diaper springs a leak

Azure Prower.8701:

CharrGirl.7896:

Lothirieth.3408:

This seems overkill on top of the map completion and badges. I suppose I could conceed them wanting a bit of a rank, but 30 seems too high.

ANet and Colin need to start coming to grips with the fact that no, not all their players are in love with PvP.

I agree. I freaking hate PvP, i never do it, and I’m not ashamed to admit it. I even hate more being forced into a content I don’t like, for the sake of owning a shiny PvE weapon. If I ever want another legendary I just better start saving 1000g and buy it off TP at this point.

The thing is. It’s not a “PvE weapon”. If it was a “PvE weapon”. You would not be able to use it in WvW.

I beg to differ… I dont enter wvw and find myself wearing my spvp gear… and i can buy stuff in wvw with wvw tokens and run around with it in pve…

WvW is pve (all hard objectives in wvw are pve related) difference is that hostile players happen to provide the bulk of the baddie mob ai instead of some mindless computer…oh, wait..

robertul.3679:

Lets say meta changes. No more zerker or gtfo. New meta is half knight/half zerker for example. Big deal. Still no build diversity.

meta wont change over stats on gear, the only thing that can force a meta change is by changing the design of encounters in future combat… the variety of gear available was a mistake in the long run on their part, but again, the only way to rectify is to alter how encounters and progression through any given areas work… not run rampant buffing and nerfing individual attributes

nightwulf.1986:

LordByron.8369:

sorry to prove you wrong…

It takes them few days to fix stuff and change things…

The problems is they seems Always to give priority to things that can annoy players neglecting gamebreaking bugs in fractal…..

took 1 year to fix cliffside arm seal, and months to fix the infinite chanters spawn….

Yet every patch they find time to:
-Make dredge fractal more annoying, long and unbalanced
-add walls in various stages
-change maw stage
and more….

There was no reason why dredge balancing wouldn t be at the top of priority list before fractured….players hate that fractal since release and monthly threads on it appears…..

That list you gave looks like an awful lot like bug fixing and balancing to me. And there are reasons why dredge balancing in the manner you and others are asking for wouldn’t be at the top of the priority list. Yours and others personal grudge against the dredge fractal difficulty level may mean to them that its working. That’s not to say that is what they are thinking, but it seems you don’t know how to play devil’s advocate here.

But really, how do you think they set their priorities? It’s based on how much they think that particular “fix” will annoy players? That’s just silly and cynical. They hear people complaining, they read the forums. I say again, if it’s actually a problem, if it ain’t fixed yet, it’ll get fixed when they fix it. That’s still true as evidenced by the fact that it’s been over a year since people started complaining about some of these things and nothing’s happened yet. Clearly, complaining hasn’t sped up the process but I’m pretty sure you got their attention.

Egregious issues get fixed quickly (probably what you were thinking of when you said taking a few days to change things) but really, everything else? It’s true that the length of time varies, not everything takes years, but it’s often not quick. Good luck in getting the changes you want (<——-actually not sarcasm)

egregious issues like the diaper brigade QQing anet into screwing so many people out of an armor skin that the twisted panties themselves didn’t drop real money on?

In the case of the dredge fractal i will give them no more than unintended consequences for lack of forethought

and yes, some number changes really have felt more like them trolling the playerbase than anything useful..nothing you will admit to or see for yourself, its ok..i was one like you before i paid real money for a tacky version of the only nice light armor skin in the game for norns

Aye.8392:

I love these skins, or would if they didn’t have the heart in the middle of them. If they had a piece of ebony, or a light, or an onyx, or anything that didn’t just look silly I’d be all over them.

Were they trying to appeal to female players? If so, please A-Net, just give us pants.

-cough- medium armors -cough-
As for the hearts, these skins without hearts after valentines would be nice…and bring back the roses that everyone used to bug bosses with…you claim to have fixed them

Talonblaze.3175:

Lishtenbird.2814:

…said a glasscannon zerker warrior with largest health pool in heaviest armor

You seem to forget that Zerker gear isn’t exclusive to just Warriors, in fact, some classes have to take Zerker gear just to be efficient or on par with Warriors, lowering them makes em even squishier than others. Warriors would be the least hurt by that change.

This is true, my mesmer, ele and ranger all would be slammed real hard by this.
Updating the other stats will not do much either, the content needs to be designed to deal damage differently.
The horrid mob AI was better in the betas, they “can” do it from a theoretical standpoint, the issue was that the server were not (and I assume still are not) able to handle the extra traffic

possible answer to the gems thing that their marketing dept might like too: bring back infinite hair kits to black lion chests…no idea why these were ever removed, they sold for the cost of precourser weapons for the longest time but as long as they are account bound i would totally grind one out

EDIT: off topic, to make on topic i point out that to change a single, non-hair related thing like a slight skin shade, or fiddle a single slider on facial size you have to spend even more on a total makeover kit.. while I don’t like it, and the hair accessory should have gotten a few updated colors of it’s own for sure… I don’t see them letting us change it at will, cheaply or easily… after all, look at weapon dye channels >.>

Any future hair style alterations should include fixes on older styles to prevent them from clipping with non-gear related parts of your character (when your favorite hair style makes your girl have junx hang from her groin underwater, that’s not a small issue) So long as it doesn’t clip into the body no matter what the character is doing, I’m fine with it… new hair choices could be nice, maybe even some new colors that better match some dye jobs on all the weird armor dye channels… new hair is good, new colors good, but please please also fix the old ones issues too (and new hair accessory colors..why those are still locked to the base color pallet is a source of agony for me and there isn’t enough AR in the world to cure that + bad clipping with body issues)

Cute that they spent 2 months making these so nice and the flamekissed so lazy

Kolwin.4950:

Flissy.4093:

Kolwin.4950:

second one was funny

I agree, using a rifle on a Warrior? That’s a hilarious joke!

Personal preference. I love my rifle, don’t really care for the bow. Rifle does more damage than bow and is better for Bosses imo

Bow offers might stacking via fire combo fields and aoe lazy-tags in zergs an wvw in return for being quite lame and rather lack-luster in prolonged single-target fights

laokoko.7403:

No one is going to switch to other set just because of 10% reduce effective.

except people like me, who bought into the new-ish assassin’s armor set and had my damage nerfed by well over 10%. It was on par with berserker before simply because I was getting critical hits well more than half of every attack, causing more damage per stroke to make up for the loss of the power attribute (something nobody ever seemed to quite grasp). So from my prospective this particular change only served to preserve the meta, and this 10% nerf to berserker’s stats is almost purely cosmetic stacked up to what just happened to the true crit-based gear

Liet Talen.7284:

The Laurel Vendor sells the Heavy Crafting Bag for 1 Laurel. Each bag contains 3 T6 mats.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Heavy_Crafting_Bag

This is true, but if you value your future, don’t blow your laurels on these for any reason at all ever. You wouldn’t believe how bad this ticked me off when ascended crafting landed and I need 5 laurels (5 days) for every individual piece of every individual stat of armor and the same for weapons I ever thought of making…

90 t6 mats (3 per bag) or buy a set of ascended armor recipes? weigh your future carefully

Revelstoke.8924:

Bring on Ultima Online housing!

Absolutely. No. Chance. In. Hell.

Last thing we need is an entire continent littered with keeps and castles no one flippin uses like whatever that ice-island was up north. Sooner or later your game world is gone and ‘eaten’ by the projects, Tokyo style.

Just saying: do you remember kaineng city? 99% of it looked like some cobbled together super highrise slum… while it had its own epic places, “eaten by the projects” came 250 years ago

fractals were never my thing..ever to begin with, but with a group of friends (and no horrible pugs) it’s tolerable. Those dredge…time to remove ALL infinite spawns from that place. People used geometry and portaling tricks to get around that first set of mess for very good reasons. It’s not actually too difficult, but it makes an already rather long and annoying fractal (taking longer by itself than some arah runs i’ve been on..which is a violation of the fractal’s design intentions).

Beyond dredge, the new mistlocks are actually pretty cute and honestly, some seem like things that could be quite fun if added correctly to other dungeons as optional increased difficulty for better loot… to include AR, because why not? It isn’t like there are so many fractals that we haven’t seen them more times than a pornographer sees t&a, it isn’t special anymore :/

Those mistlocks also could use some tweaking insofar as rewards; level 39: Last Laugh… omg this thing is hilarious but finding a group willing to just TRY it without soiling their diaper about “QQ it took 3 hours last time QQ” is basically impossible because even though it’s still quite low on the requirement for annoying external gear grinds, it is a very crippling mistlock, and it will take time, lots of time, and the rewards will not be much different from fractals level 38 which everyone runs instead. I think currently this and the existance of the dredge and cliffside fractal at all in the mix are the biggest issues with that system at the moment.

Also, part of it with dredge, those things have insane amounts of health when they are all level 82/83 even without being veterans or having buffs, which is part of the difficulty, but to make it one worth saving without any other changes: no more infinite dredge spawns, they all spawn one time, drop loot and never come back for any reason. The best way to handle this would be percentage triggers. Door reaches 75,50,25 or whatever, then give us the one time spawn. Also, for the activation to reach the second stage of that fractal, maybe a few infinite spawns here, but it need not be the entire cage, and when the trigger is set, they need to go back into their holes in the ground (how is they they pop out of the cage floor so magically anyway?)

Inimicus.7162:

Before you say “well be happy you had it” go get $1 million, lose it all for someone else’s screw ups and see how you feel, hyperbole yes, but not far different

Or buy a nice real fur coat with PETA standing outside, enjoy wearing it out long enough for them to throw paint, acid and/or feces on it

Further, I think a lot of you don’t understand the entire reason for the way the loot and item teirs work in GW2, or GW1 for that matter.

When this first landed, many people told me I was insane for creating an entire character for the sole reason of wearing this armor. Yes, I bought a new character slot, rolled a new mesmer, leveled it to 80 wearing its beautiful flamekissed t3 ripoff and now she looks like some failed kitten.

Why make a whole new character? UnutzBro? Well, considering sylvari universally look like the fell from heaven and landed face first in a blender, and human females look like 15 year olds with more surgical augmentations than Pam Anderson…Yes, the opprotunity to have a functional looking, beautiful, showy, classy, non-kittenty outfit on a norn was a godsend. I’d have made a necromancer as well if the stuff wasn’t yanked so soon, and while I’m thankful for that on some level, they really violated all trust i have in their company over this. A few gems relating to the very looks that caused an entire character and all costs from start to finish to exist just…vanishing? Yea, I’m mad. The armor set was that good looking, it never was race exclusive (High Councilor Flaxx—an asura, if the diaper squad is worth listening to then go find him and put him in feathered, else thats massive screw up #4 at least on anet’s part)… and it was able to handle all the horrid design issues they refused to fix with norn females from word go that made finding them light armor that fits the look i want (remember, the look IS THE ENTIRE ENDGAME HERE, it isnt a raid treadmill, it isnt wvw or pvp… its making your character look good by your own tastes) and I feel far worse over this for having had it now and losing it.

Before you say “well be happy you had it” go get $1 million, lose it all for someone else’s screw ups and see how you feel, hyperbole yes, but not far different

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Ashen.2907:

Yes, but that burden should be shouldered by the merchant in a situation where the merchant caused, even if inadvertently, the problem.

I would argue that the merchant only did what it’s customer’s wanted in the first place. The removal of the flamekissed armor. They did not cause the issue, we did. They were simply trying to keep us happy. This is a prime example of being kitten ed if they do, kitten ed if they don’t.

If a merchant sells a product, gems in this case, advertised as having a specific function (being tradable for the first iteration of the armor skin), and then changes the product so that it can no longer fulfill that function, they should refund the money spent on that product.

ANet sold gems while advertising that they could be used to acquire the previous iteration of the armor skin. Those gems, purchased for that advertised purpose, cannot serve the purpose for which they were sold and bought. They should be returnable for a cash refund. Any additional resource burden (time or money) should be born by the merchant that made the mistake. At no point should the customer be made to suffer (defined here as having spent the money without receiving the desired end product) because the merchant made a mistake.

They stated that they would give refunds, they did not state what type. Perhaps we are at fault for not clarifying. However, their gem refund policy clearly states that they do refund the cash spent in instances where they can. If you have spent the gems, you may not be eligible for a refund. Refund not ‘cash refund’. Refund, period. The fact they did state that they would do a refund for anyone that didn’t like the new skin, when the gems have clearly been spent says a lot in regards to how their attempt to satisfy their unhappy customers. In some instances merchants simply can’t refund the cash spent for any number of reasons. It happens. They could be like some other companies out there that tell their customers ‘tough luck, deal with it.’ How some of them stay in business, I have no clue, but they do…

I completely understand, and agree with, the decision to withdraw the original iteration of the armor skin. I actually like the new version better, but ANet should be fully refunding money spent on gems to purchase the original version for those who dislike the new.

Do we know for certain that they are not refunding cash in any/all instances? Are they only refunding gems?

Logic check: “they did what we wanted” when “we” is people who didn’t lose money over the victory of the soiled diaper brigade… so they made 2 very big mistakes right off the start and only made it worse with such a low quality, and VERY poorly chosen replacement

And no, when asked for cash they blew smoke in my face by basically ignoring the request

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

DPrime.3954:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

DPrime.3954:

This is completely a bait and switch scheme. We were baited with the human tier 3 armor and they switched to this new armor. This isn’t what people wanted to buy, it was forced upon us. People spent REAL money to buy this armor and now we get in-store credit refund? That’s fraud. Anet should be forced to return the T3 sets to those who bought them.

Anet is refunding those that have requested a refund. No harm done. Just request a refund. Sheesh.

They are giving an in-store credit. They are not sending me a $10USD cheque in the mail. There is also the matter of principal that a crime which is both a civil wrong and a criminal wrong.

This isn’t any different than returning something to WalMart or Toys R Us though. You return an item, they give you a gift card. (Yes, there’s a bit more to it, but you get the general point here. Let’s not nit pick)

You spent money on gems. You spent those gems on an armor set. They are refunding you the gems you purchased. You can use those gems at any time on any other item. Whether you do or not…. is no different than whether or not you use that gift card. Although, unlike that gift card, your gems will never expire.

Also, they only did exactly what community demanded. They removed the original flamekissed and gave you something different. They listened to the outraged cry of their playerbase and did what we told them to do – remove the t3 reskin, and make something else. There was no promise that you would like that something else. They said they thought you would, but they didn’t promise you would. Only a fool would make such a promise, since it is impossible to please everyone.

“the community” who didnt send them real money i should point out… and the official post https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Flamekissed-Armor-Skin/first#post3275229 soothed it at that moment because there was no reason to believe that they were going to totally trash what I had bought… I honestly thought they spent 2 months making something true to what she specifically said was the goal (not that the other 2 armors met that in any way shape or form, and while also wrong, I didn’t drop real money on those)

KOPPER.1458:

People spent REAL money to buy this armor and now we get in-store credit refund? That’s fraud

They took a mistake and turned it into a fraud

Fraud is a deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain

Not sure you guys are using the correct word here…

That is probably quite true, but is there a word for when what can really be called fraud, (bait and switch, they are keeping my money after selling me something i didn’t actually purchase… or more correctly, turning something I purchased into something it was not without any consent of mine) results as a secondary consequence of a bad reaction to a related subject?

Leo Paul.1659:

Inimicus.7162:

Leo Paul.1659:

Well, I for one, am very happy with the change…

Your character is human, they proportioned the original feathered set specifically to human, while i had both the t3 and flamekissed on some human characters of mine, the norns who I prefer for looks because i hate the way sylvari turned out, and humans all look 15 to me…the norns suffer horrible issues due to the fact that female norns basically wear their armor over a male norn’s mesh… so while this isnt bad looking on a human (still prefer original), they used a human female model in their gem store add for a very good reason.

Yea I haven’t seen the armor on the rest of the races prior to me taking my screenies.. I noticed they really don’t look as good particularly on norns.. :/

Yea, it’s why i dropped enough money into the gem store to get 6 sets of the armor, a character slot for that norn mesmer i showed earlier, kasmeer’s staff and a hair kit for said mesmer. I would never have made that character, and would have swallowed my dislikes for the human character designs if I didn’t think i was going to finally have a beautiful light armor for a norn..i may even have done a necromancer the same if it wasn’t yanked from the gem store…
So my Norn mesmer and ele both are screwed out of pve and pvp armors, my human and sylvari ele both lose this stuff, but currently it looks like my human is also losing at least the leggings of the actual human t3 set because I don’t remember if I had bought her the shoulders yet when it came out.

It was anet’s mistake not mine, and I am losing real money for it, thus the outrage… and it doesn’t matter how little people think it cost, because this means that anything bought via the gem store (a store designed to attract real money with secondary allowance for game gold) can be changed without warning, without consent, and without any financial penalty to the company involved. Right now it stinks of a fraud, that is their own fault, gems in return stinks of a secondary con. This can’t be stated enough imo.

DPrime.3954:

Inimicus.7162:

in a bait and switch scheme normally the replacement would already be in line to go out on purchase…but this has turned into said scheme because they made the blatant mistake of putting out the first set in the first place, than made it a borderline legal issue by removing it on the complaints of people who didn’t spend real money on it… and now have made it that much worse because they waited 2 entire months to do…this.. Yea, the people who spent real money in the end are not getting what was offered and paid for, and currently the best recourse they have is being offered the ability to get back gems from a store which we now know can have items sold through it changed without real warning, and without real consent. I say put original flamekissed back, give it back to everyone who had it, keep this new burlesque outfit they have in the gem store and have the original sell at a permanent merchant to all races once more for the normal price of t3 culture armor…and go ahead and put particles on other t3’s and sell em for 119g to all other races interested too.

This is completely a bait and switch scheme. We were baited with the human tier 3 armor and they switched to this new armor. This isn’t what people wanted to buy, it was forced upon us. People spent REAL money to buy this armor and now we get in-store credit refund? That’s fraud. Anet should be forced to return the T3 sets to those who bought them.

Yes, all i was pointing out is that it wasn’t their original plan, they knee-jerked and caved to people who didn’t spend real money. They took a mistake and turned it into a fraud.

Soulmyr.8094:

Inimicus.7162:

Yep: From goddess to prostitute in 300-some megabytes… There is no comparison, and waiting 2 months on THIS while the art department worked on new weapon skins and we were promised by forum mods in posts that no longer seem to exist that it would be on par and that “we might like it” is just low…

Funny how it actually looks better. That dye job is very unflattering though.

glad you think so, its in the gem store, go get some for yourself

to me its the difference between that hot evil woman who flaunts it cause she has it and that nerd girl who puts on her outift one time to catch a sucker and never wears anything like it ever again. I didn’t pay money to look like one of those nerd girls, i paid money to look like that evil queen who will enjoy killing you because nobody has the power to stop her

and the dye job was the one to match the old t3, there isnt any dye in the world that can make that piece of excrement look like a rose for my mesmer

Naqaj.6219:

Inimicus.7162:

Yep: From goddess to prostitute

I seriously don’t see the qualitative difference you’re describing there.

Feathered armor looks like something a showgirl or some ballerina might wear on stage, it isn’t revealing enough in the right places, it doesn’t produce that air of dominance… feathered and the flamekiss redo looks like that girl who thinks shes dressing sassy but calls the cops the moment you say hello to her.

The previous one reaks of a girl who doesn’t mind showing it off, but who WILL KILL YOU if you even think to say something, it has evil queen written all over the look and feel, its quite revealing, but still quite regal, and lest we forget that the ornamentation on the old armor (the shoulders epecially) did look like crowns.

feathered = dancer, stripper, prostitute… a woman being put on show by someone else
human t3 = that evil queen who shows it cause she has it and will kill you slowly herself for fun if you even think to say anything

quality answered?

Leo Paul.1659:

Well, I for one, am very happy with the change…

Your character is human, they proportioned the original feathered set specifically to human, while i had both the t3 and flamekissed on some human characters of mine, the norns who I prefer for looks because i hate the way sylvari turned out, and humans all look 15 to me…the norns suffer horrible issues due to the fact that female norns basically wear their armor over a male norn’s mesh… so while this isnt bad looking on a human (still prefer original), they used a human female model in their gem store add for a very good reason.

Beldin.5498:

Inimicus.7162:

Same old issues on norn females, im glad nobody at anet even took the time to go LOOK at how this would turn out on said models

What issue do you have with norn females ? I don’t see any problems.

I notice you aren’t displaying the shoulders, they are sized/shaped for norn males. The proportion of the boots/gloves has them stretched quite thin to make up for the height of the character (too small), and I don’t care to stare at this outfit long enough, but norn females had a very noticeable gap between the slippers and whatever that thing is above their ankles.

Clearly they ONLY looked at the human model for this set when it was originally designed because it (and so many others) doesn’t look so… plain on the humans

Lilith Ajit.6173:

I just found it interesting that when they pulled the first one from the gems tore, they said something along the lines of “though not intended, it did resemble t3 human cultural.” But, like, it seems to me that their intention for this armor set was to have them be reskins. But if that was their intention, their very blatant and obvious intention, why would they not be surprised that the first armor set resembled t3? It just doesn’t make sense to me.

I hate the new Flamekissed, though I do like the helm. I have since changed my norn back to her old look, with winged armor, but I’ll definitely always miss the first Flamekissed.

in a bait and switch scheme normally the replacement would already be in line to go out on purchase…but this has turned into said scheme because they made the blatant mistake of putting out the first set in the first place, than made it a borderline legal issue by removing it on the complaints of people who didn’t spend real money on it… and now have made it that much worse because they waited 2 entire months to do…this.. Yea, the people who spent real money in the end are not getting what was offered and paid for, and currently the best recourse they have is being offered the ability to get back gems from a store which we now know can have items sold through it changed without real warning, and without real consent. I say put original flamekissed back, give it back to everyone who had it, keep this new burlesque outfit they have in the gem store and have the original sell at a permanent merchant to all races once more for the normal price of t3 culture armor…and go ahead and put particles on other t3’s and sell em for 119g to all other races interested too.

The asthetic side to why people bought the original is in a post of mine above, its quite showy, but it says “Mess with me and you will die, slowly.” The feathered set was/is unimpressive and looks more like something a Vegas showgirl might wear while dancing on stage, not really hardcore. And that asura NPC named High Councillor Flaxx is probably still wearing his human T3, just saying.

Pic thx to gw2 wiki:

Yep: From goddess to prostitute in 300-some megabytes… There is no comparison, and waiting 2 months on THIS while the art department worked on new weapon skins and we were promised by forum mods in posts that no longer seem to exist that it would be on par and that “we might like it” is just low…

Rajani Isa.6294:

Inimicus.7162:

and GG, you got my money, sold me the promise of one thing, eventually gave me something that doesnt even compare, and you are probably legally firewalled somewhere in the middle of the EULA against giving proper refunds for bait and switch schemes via the gem store.

If it was a bait-and-switch scheme, they’d had the new flamekissed ready to go when they first released all three armor sets.

And the catch to “proper refunds” is this : when you buy gems, you agree there is no refund for them (barring billing errors).

Buying the flamekissed was a separate purchase – one done not with cash but gems. And you are getting a full gem refund if you ask for it now.

Maybe, either way… no real money, account can be deleted because I can’t put faith in them anymore, gl

Same old issues on norn females, im glad nobody at anet even took the time to go LOOK at how this would turn out on said models

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

Since this is a nice huge thread, I will post another suggestion I have:
Suggestion:

• Introduce a new condition named “Taunt”, which will force all enemies affected to slowly run towards the user and autoattack him.
• “Guard” or “Protect Me” will cause the pet to taunt nearby enemies for a long duration (~5 secs or so)

“Sic ’Em”

While the boons for your pet are quite nice, the shout could use more durability in WvW.

Suggestion:

• Activating “Sic ’Em” without a target will cause your pet to follow a stealthed player, if there are any in range.
• (OPTIONAL: And reveals him (OPTIONAL: When the pet hits the target))
• (OPTIONAL: Or the pet will reveal all stealthed players in the affected area)

or just something the pet could do to force a reveal because you are a “Ranger” which means you should have the ability to “track” a specific animal in the forest, or know when some idiot is hiding behind yonder rock… and guard dogs have been used for thousands of years for a reason: they know and can follow /reveal any stink that doesn’t belong…in fact only reliable way to silence a guard dog is to kill it :/

And the “Taunt” thing does exist lol…there is a mob… one mob in the entire whole game who is able to goad players (it’s more of a charm..beside the point) into fighting him… he is in brisban wilderness or w/e and is the champ in an event over near a fortress randomly filled with level 80 bandits in a level 15-24 zone…so it exists lol. Although why call on the pet for anything since it does so fast and such… i’d rather those skills be made more in line with warrior/guard shouts for scope of function

Aza.2105:

Wintel.4873:

What was the design philosophy with Elementalist health+armor, especially in PvE where mobs deal flat damage?

My guess is that its because they can swap through four different weapon sets (attunements) compared to just two weapon sets for the other seven classes. Each attunement functions as a different type of weapon: dps, support, defensive, condition damage.

This is the theory, but they cobbled it together weird and added cooldowns on the attunement swaps that force the need of other strange bits to be added to make up for the 8-12 second loss of the ability to do whatever the element you had on before did… if the took it to the purest form where atunements had a .1 second cooldown to prevent spamming/accidents, attunement boons had internal cooldowns to prevent exploits, and they purified their proper vision of the elements (delusion of what air magic is about imo…diff story) then yes, they could make skill sets that made much better sense i think. but my post above outlines what i think they got themselves into quite well

DiogoSilva.7089:

Wintel.4873:

I wish Ele’s could do that.

I don’t, I just think our weapon’s skills should be a bit more polished to compensate for that.

Again, taking 4 different and otherwise unrelated aspects of game play, and trying to pack each of the 4 with their main function, some damage because this game has no pure healers, some form of CC and/or mobility and maybe a little something in the name of defence or another buff…

5 skills to do 4 things or more in each of 4 different categories with their own individual skill cooldown, each of which category has a global cooldown and will be “better” at its given “themed function” than the others, thus even if it includes some of those functions they will be underpowered to drive the point home… any guesses why the thing has the odd issues it does? XD

Carighan.6758:

Hrm, my GF – being a Ranger, Longbow + Axe/Horn, but I dunno the details I’ll admit :P – rarely has dungeon issues.
She also started using spirits a bit more now (not fully specced into them), and she seems to have great success where they’re not immediately 1-shot (but then, those situations kill all the other pets, too..). They add a lot of power to the group, and they go above the limits of boons.

I’ve heard many people say things like this and a part of me wonders if I am the only one in the game (A previous game of mine admitted to, and eventually fixed issues that only effected 1/3 or so of all their accounts relating in that game to aggro generation…but I have to admit it’s a possibility). Mobs and Bosses interact with my ranger pets in ways I never see them do with players, they will stop on the pet like its a wall or something (and usually lets them check range, so if in range but not where i want them to be, I’m boned), and even when my pet is dead they will sometimes break aggro from me, run THROUGH ME and go stare at my nearby dead pet for a second before deciding to come back…and I’ve watched this behavior in Mai Trin (original, quit ranger long before fractal version), jade maw…who targets weird things that aren’t always there anyway, what I call solid proof (though also same, haven’t seen a ranger in fractals for a very long time), the spider in AC and the alpha of CoE are things that groups regularly stack, and they just refuse in the presence of any combat-capable pet so far as I have seen. One of those things that I really wish somebody would at least claim to look into… but since it apparently isn’t a global or even common issue maybe I should just keep to playing something else

Mosharn.8357:

Oh and btw war mobility has always been the same. It’s just people being bored and running these builds and now everyone wants it nerfed because chasing someone is such a huge part of gw2 wvw.

cripple/chill/immobilize puts a sharp halt on anything that isnt a teleport, and while conditions are very easy to remove, the mobs in GW1 were capable of doing it and people had to learn to cover the conditions they really wanted to do the most damage…mobs in gw2 do it better than most players actually tbh

and note: “the most damage” doesn’t have to be to his health pool

Kyon.9735:

LelouchViBritannia.3607:

Rednik.3809:

Do OP understand that leap skills have travel time and affected by slow effects, thats why they are don’t have targeting? Targeting requirement = teleport skills in GW2.
Also, killing whole class of skills just for sake of few wvw roamers, lol, this is beyond ridiculous.

Ride the Lightning doesn’t teleport yet requires a target.

It doesn’t particularly require a target to be used but you will get a 40s cooldown penalty instead of 20s if you don’t target and hit something.

actually you dont need to target, just hit something.. an ambient will do

haviz.1340:

LordByron.8369:

EDIT: for it and for the times i use bow as 5th attunement, i also use water 4 with zephyr boons (fury etc)

But my dps is not to be discussed.

Someone said ele can dps and have defense because has focus
I answered focus lowers your dps by a lot
He ansered l2p use hammer.

There is something wrong in that….. try to answer people derailing discussions rather on my build that is my choice…( i already used many “DPS builds of the month”)
I m not saying i could not do more damage…i said, that active and risky gameplay like the one promoted by D/D should have better numbers compared to 1111111 or 22222222 builds with most skills only used to get might OOC.

D/F build without conjures does similar amount of damage (if not more) to LH builds. You keep attached to D/D and want it to be dps set which is similar to playing pure axe warrior. Works on paper but any decent warrior will grab a greatsword for the evade, just like focus is preferred over off-hand dagger, because it brings utility. You may not like but it’s a fact.

Or any warrior who cant find their evade buttons… sorry, but when i put a gs on my warrior its just to fill the ranged slot so i can swap, and mash skill 2 for adrenaline before going back to my axe

bigmonto.4215:

Inimicus.7162:

Why you all so worried about your celestial stuff?

The same reason why you are worrying about the assassin set. Effectiveness aside, we also spend a long time grinding for the celestial set, now it seems it will be nerf a lot more than the zerker or the Sin set. It is not a set meant to be nerf to begin with. You can say celestial is basically a casualty of war between Anet and PVE meta (which Anet completely miss the mark).

This is why I say sure, nerf away. Just allow us to re-select the stats on our ascended gear (yes zerker, sin set included). Since it is not the our (player’s) responsibility to guess what Anet will do when we make a set. At least give us a choice to switch stats if Anet decide to make large changes.

Yes, paragraph 1 is true..and yes, if I honestly believe paragraph #2 was going to be the case I wouldn’t be so worried… allowing stat changes after weird nerfs like this, especially on gear that was added just months before the nerf smashes the very thing they are centered on would make it acceptable…if they would only come out and SAY IT…

Lorelei.7809:

Coming from a person who plays both Mesmer (primarily) and Ranger. My husband is also an excellent Ranger – and uses the pet to the fullest potential.

A few points regarding Mesmers:
1. Keep in mind that these clones/phantasms are FRAGILE in comparison to other AI.
2. They have a cooldown to respawn.
3. They have a cooldown for only one skill used
4. Often, they only get 1 shot in before either killed or shattered

Regarding Rangers:
1. Pets, particularly bears, can tank if you so desire.
2. You can switch out pets instantaneously (so long as you don’t let them die within 20 seconds).
3. Though their best skill has a long recharge, the pet is using other skills while that skill is cooling down.
4. Related to #3, they will get in a fair amount of hits before they’re either switched out or dead.

Considering the cooldowns for Mesmers and the fragility of their clones/phantasms, they need any extra damage they can get. Whereas with Rangers, the damage over time from the pet is either equal to or greater than that of the Mesmer phantasm.

I normally let my phantasms get one shot off, then shatter them, as the cooldown between skills they use leaves them vulnerable (It is much better for them to be shattered than to die) and myself not doing much damage. I try to reduce my recharge as much as possible so I can have at least 1 out at any particular moment.

In essence though, I think the answer to the OP’s question is basically: Mesmers’ phantasms/clones are that much more fragile.

And also, as someone else mentioned, it’s very useful to have your pets do something else, ie condi damage to support your particular build. Plus, pets are already so OP…. My husband rarely ever goes to defeated state due to his pet…. He commonly carries around a wolf (for fear) and a bear (tank) or a wolf (for fear) and spider (control).

I envy you finding people to run with your husbands ranger in dungeons with them calling out “don’t rez the ranger” ….guildies at the time mind you.

And while i categorically hate being forced to give 1/3 or more of my damage, and have that thing out where it causes problems to no end, if i had a decent pool of dungeon runners who didn’t need to stack everything, and was willing to slow down a little and fight things that didn’t 1 shot my ranger’s pet, i might still be playing it :/