Guild Wars 2

Fluffball.8307:

Chrury.4627:

Clever, getting an edge on your opponents by confusing them! Like writing the word “blue” in red ink, but with the threat of getting mauled.

I occasionally name the pet my exact character name just to mildly add to the confusion in a team PvP fight. I’ve seen some mesmers name themselves after phantasms but I think anet put an end to that.

Lol I used to run a zoo build and do the same thing. I had more than 1 person rage at me in chat.

Did you actually try to cap stuff on the bl or did you just assume that because there was no tag or no queue nothing was happening?

That skill has saved my kitten more times than I can count.

Lakshmi.5941:

Thanks Jim Hunter. I played a Wilderness Knowledge fury uptime build before HoT, so I understand what you mean. Kinda excited to try this out, even if the DPS is a bit low. Some wiggle room in the stats to tweak it to suit the circumstances.

The dps really isn’t that bad at all. Rapid fire loses out on maybe 2 or 3k but you keep up a constant 2k bleed tick which is pretty great in those fights where you are constantly stealthing and kiting around. Once a player blows their condi clear they just crumple.

The only real dps loss is not being able to take beast mastery, but a good player is going to avoid most of your pet damage anyway.

P/P thief!? What are people going to complain about next a…… um……. I can’t think of anything easier to kill than a P/P thief….

Lakshmi.5941:

Thanks Fluffball. How much crit chance should I aim for? Seems like Sharpened Edges is pretty key to bleed stacking in this build.

I shoot for around 60% since fury uptime is pretty much perma in fights, but there have been days where I dropped it down to around 50% to work in more vitality and I didn’t notice much of a difference.

Did I miss something in the last “balance” patch? Since when did thieves become the apex predators? Is the op complaining about packs of thieves ganking solo players or something?

Dawdler.8521:

Mrs Qurly.9372:

1. Please allow for crafting more than 1 superior siege item at a time in mystic forge

Silly idea.

A better one is removing the absolutely ridiculous way of crafting siege via the forge and instead add superior siege crafting to weaponsmithing (400+), huntsman (400+) and artificer (400+), ie the three weapon crafts. Oh and before people say “but that means I as a hardcore WvWer that log in directly to EB have to PvE to level up my crafting, how horrible!” I say kitten off and dont craft superior siege then.

Why add a needless grind? Seriously…. how would this in any way be better than what the op suggested?

Dawdler.8521:

LetoII.3782:

I’d love to be able to sell all these gifts of battle I have in my bank

I’d love to be able to sell my 14 or so gifts of exploration to WvWers that are too lazy to do world exploration (500g a pop sounds reasonable, yes?) :p

WvW players don’t have 500g

Reh.5986:

Plz no buffs to druid dmg unless they look at druid sustain + mobility/stealth first. Already have unkillable druids running around in circles while their pet and staff auto whittles down just about every non bunker build without good cc or disengage.

What the hell kind of worthless build are you running that you are 1v1’ing on a glassy build without cc or disengage?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQJAWTjEqQJL2wCusAVLWMEsm3VqrFwEAGdNA4u6YNtWi0rA-T1SAABzoDYTVDg4CAQxTAAgDBQbKBFTJ2XKPyUNnX0EE4+DBAQAYn78o78oHtUAKKNC-w
Here’s the version I run on my alt account. If you go exotic for the armor and weapons it comes out to be fairly cheap.

On my main account I run vipers, if you enjoy the build it is definitely worth investing in vipers. For PvE you can drop SoS for the extra bleeds but the signet comes in pretty darned handy in WvW, especially when rezzing a buddy.

Balthazzarr.1349:

And yet I continue to run backline and pick off enemy cmndrs my cmndr tags. And my kill count is big most of the time. So I don’t provide the boonshare etc that other classes do. But I still kill a lot and of course that’s what we want too right? My build is my own hybrid thats better imo than condi or the other so called meta.

After all is said and done, my main cmndr knows how to make use of me and it translates into a lot of kills and fun.

That says a lot more about the guilds you are fighting than it does about rangers being viable in a zerg.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Off-topic, but:

Selfish condi ranger is capable of doing about 30k dps fully buffed which is significantly higher than the dps of the support oriented meta build shown in the test (and probably not worst dps of all classes). Still completely irrelevant for this discussion.

Yeah condi damage is the same across all classes, there isn’t a pet tax on it like ranger power builds. But with resistance being 100% immunity condi damage isn’t an option.

Jana.6831:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Jana.6831:

Even 4-5k on 5 enemies every 5-6 seconds isn’t too bad and I guess most people in a zerg don’t do more than that.

Maybe that used to be the case but have you tried running a hammer rev?

“They are OP I WANT TO BE OP AS WELL” – no argument, is it?

Except it’s not just them, the damage levels are simply higher now.

Jana.6831:

Even 4-5k on 5 enemies every 5-6 seconds isn’t too bad and I guess most people in a zerg don’t do more than that.

Maybe that used to be the case but have you tried running a hammer rev?

Jana.6831:

You yourself said that you have 10k mauls and in fact I’ve been hit with 12k mauls (but that was a while ago).

Jim Hunter.6821:

Dropping 10k+ mauls on 5 players every 5 seconds while providing heals, condi clear, group stun break, and cc would be enough that rangers wouldn’t be shunned from zergs.

There you go – remembering isn’t one of your strong skills, eh?!

ETA: Just leave it at that, pls. I like you but I don’t get why you become so narrow minded when it comes to ranger – and the next post might be a post in which you explode yet again and I won’t take that.

Go back and read that post. I was saying we could be dropping 10k+ mauls on people in a zerg fight if our weapons scaled properly.

And if I remember right you main a thief don’t you? If someone hit you with a 12k maul they were running a remorseless build and you were probably pretty kitten close to full glass am I right? Rangers can self buff for a burst attack using traits, shouts, signets, etc. but that is for 1 big hit 30-60 seconds. That’s not nearly the same as having decent damage on the weapon skill itself.

And if you think that it would be unfair just remind yourself how much damage things like rev CoR, warrior rush, thief vault, etc. all do, and remember how ridiculously telegraphed and slow maul is.

Justine.6351:

Khenzy.9348:

Justine.6351:

I went through and made it more staff oriented.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQFAWjEqQNLWyCusAVLWMEMmAworBA3VHrp1m31JoFcSSLJN-TlRFAB9pEsKlftt/oDAgHAwhq/kwFAIAACwMnZAwMn5Mn5MnZhAUMHA-w

I avoided making it glass by using celestial trinkets.
I left the weapon swap set out. You can use,
Longbow
Axe or sword with, torch or axe

If you want it to be glass mix it sinister and rampager stats.

Oh and I put provisioner food in it, that’s a wvw dispenser thing you can/should get.

What the h** is this? Please Demiroid.8574, don’t waste your gold on that mess.

It’s what he asked for. And if you think it’s a mess, I will happily melt your face off with it.

^
I min/max differently but I run a similar build in WvW and wreck just about everyone I come across, especially straight power/bunker druids.

Jana.6831:

Jim Hunter.6821:

I’m saying it should be doing 10k+ when you are heavily invested in power and you are might stacked. Right now you’d be lucky to do 4k in a zerg fight. Rangers have to run gimmicky builds that require popping several cooldowns to deal decent damage with maul. Stuff like activating SotW, SotH, and having a remorseless opening strike ready, and that’s if your opponents can’t dodge the biggest telegraph in the game….. I mean a 3/4 second attack with a big kitten bear animation…. thanks anet.

So your complaint is that you have to go tanky to survive in a zerg and then do less damage?
I’m really afraid of the things to come: rangers/druids are already unkillable in wvw it might even become worse – because rangers always feel they don’t do enough damage!!!!

Reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit is it.
Rangers have lower power coefficients and base numbers on their power weapons to account for the pet.

It has nothing to do with going tanky, even if we go full glass our damage is low. It’s the same reason rangers were booted from dungeons for the first few years of the game. The only weapon we have that scales decently with power is the longbow which is worthless in zergs post HoT.

Jana.6831:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Rangers have lower power coefficients and base numbers on their power weapons to account for the pet. Even if we somehow miraculously keep them alive in a zerg fight we deal less damage because pets don’t cleave, they were never given the 10%ish more damage that everyone gets when they upgrade to ascended gear, they don’t receive the benefits of our food/utility buffs, they don’t even get boons like might unless we run nature magic.

So even if the pets live a skill like maul is doing half of the damage it should be because of the pet tax.

Yeah but it is not as if every weapon in this game does the same damage, regardless of the class – you yourself spoke of 10k mauls which is on the top range of damage people can dish out – even more so on 5 players at once. If it really were 20k otherwise then the devs should have a look at it.
And back in the day I was always glad when my pet was in the melee group as that was where it survived the longest – but that was PvE, granted.

I’m saying it should be doing 10k+ when you are heavily invested in power and you are might stacked. Right now you’d be lucky to do 4k in a zerg fight. Rangers have to run gimmicky builds that require popping several cooldowns to deal decent damage with maul. Stuff like activating SotW, SotH, and having a remorseless opening strike ready, and that’s if your opponents can’t dodge the biggest telegraph in the game….. I mean a 3/4 second attack with a big kitten bear animation…. thanks anet.

Jana.6831:

ETA: And you answered “my noobish aproach to ranger” (“but we have more than LB!!!!”) yourself: most players are used to LB rangers, rangers themselves and everybody else – how should the commander know which weapon the ranger uses?
And LB and GS are both pretty foolproof. It’s a bit harder to pull the other weapons off (again: I don’ know about staff).

Nothing really harder about the other weapons. Main hand sword could work in a zerg, it would allow you to bring off hand axe which would work fairly well or warhorn for an extra blast finisher. It’s main problem is although they fixed the weapon so you can use it without leapfrogging through the zerg, they decided to nerf it’s dps at the same time and they still haven’t added cleave to the second chain in the auto attack.

Main hand axe could have been decent if it properly scaled with power until the most recent set of ranger nerfs where they removed a bounce from the auto. Before that it would have been decent tagging/might stacking weapon with a high aoe chill uptime (when traited).

Shortbow is just worthless. Nerfed into the ground back in the day to make longbow more appealing. It’s arguably the worst weapon in the game.

Jana.6831:

Jim Hunter.6821:

I’m sorry but you’re wrong. You seem to be under the impression a ranger has to run a longbow, our melee weapons cleave and our staff isn’t blocked by all the projectile hate.
If our weapons scaled properly and our pets received aoe damage/cc reduction we could run frontline melee and bring some decent support to the group.
Dropping 10k+ mauls on 5 players every 5 seconds while providing heals, condi clear, group stun break, and cc would be enough that rangers wouldn’t be shunned from zergs.

Ranger was my first main, I have at least an idea how the class works, never tried staff though, but every other set. LB and SB are more or less single target – your melee weapons aren’t and you would have traps. I don’t get how weapons don’t scale properly because of your pet – don’t they scale just the same no matter whether or not your pet is alive or dead? If you run melee and have some friendly guards, you’d do enough damage, have your pet always near and that should work – right now without any further buffs.

Rangers have lower power coefficients and base numbers on their power weapons to account for the pet. Even if we somehow miraculously keep them alive in a zerg fight we deal less damage because pets don’t cleave, they were never given the 10%ish more damage that everyone gets when they upgrade to ascended gear, they don’t receive the benefits of our food/utility buffs, they don’t even get boons like might unless we run nature magic.

So even if the pets live a skill like maul is doing half of the damage it should be because of the pet tax.

Yuffi.2430:

• and if you get bored you can build temporary siege (although I’ve not seen this actually used).

You should try it, the results are hilarious. My old roam group used to build a cata on the southern ruins for sw tower and we would build the cannon. We went 4v20ish on multiple occasions using the cannon and knocking people to their deaths when they tried to jump up and get us.
It also helps to build a ram at the top for the damage reduction and that nice long fear. Bonus points if you down someone in front of the ram and use it to launch them off lol.

AtlasSi.9130:

Jim Hunter.6821:

It was kind of implied when he said don’t run with the zerg but I guess you missed it…

Don’t be bad

If you do that it’s pretty easy to avoid being run over by the enemy zerg.

Ok. Yeah. Gotcha. Don’t be bad. Tell that to the groups of 3-5 running around. That chase you to no frikkin end. Even on teef. There is no escape from experienced small group roamers. I’d pay to watch you escape from them. Or at least try.
All I want is my GoB. Honestly, after completing it once it should be in vendor. Fair enough.

I mean….. how much would you pay? I solo roam almost all of the time, killing and/or escaping larger groups is 90% of what I do.

Fluffball.8307:

That said, berserker staff is not terrible damage. I mean it is terrible, but it’s passable.

Made me lol

Jeknar.6184:

Jim Hunter.6821:

You seem to be under the impression a ranger has to run a longbow, our melee weapons cleave and our staff isn’t blocked by all the projectile hate.

Gonna quote myself from the page 2 of this thread

Jeknar.6184:

Ranger is problably the profession with most bad players per capita (Some of them don’t even know they have a weapon other than Longbow)

I guess no one else realizes that either lol.

edit: Which is funny since so many people come to the ranger forums to cry about staff/GS roamers

AtlasSi.9130:

Justine.6351:

So don’t run with the zerg?

Ight. So get run over by the other sides zerg.

You can finish the track just flipping camps and sentries while killing any yaks you come across. Yes you can 100% pve in wvw if you are sneaky kitten.

Ight still get run over by the other sides zerg and then small roaming groups that are around 24/7 when I have the time to play.

It was kind of implied when he said don’t run with the zerg but I guess you missed it…

Don’t be bad

If you do that it’s pretty easy to avoid being run over by the enemy zerg.

Jana.6831:

Jim Hunter.6821:

The pet tax is the reason why rangers lack damage. Our weapons scale for kitten.

That isn’t the problem in a zerg fight though – it doesn’t matter how much damage you do – the problem is that most of your skills are single target skills.

ETA: Just arguing because you guys make it sound as if this were solved with adding MOAR damage of which ranger has got enough anyway. I guess it’s rather how the class is designed which makes them rather unusable for zergs – and that goes for the pet as well, but standing in 1600 range might not be ideal to see how many reflects are up – and with that you might kill your own guys.

I’m sorry but you’re wrong. You seem to be under the impression a ranger has to run a longbow, our melee weapons cleave and our staff isn’t blocked by all the projectile hate.
If our weapons scaled properly and our pets received aoe damage/cc reduction we could run frontline melee and bring some decent support to the group.
Dropping 10k+ mauls on 5 players every 5 seconds while providing heals, condi clear, group stun break, and cc would be enough that rangers wouldn’t be shunned from zergs.

Jeknar.6184:

Xillllix.3485:

They removed the cap on conditions and then buffed them crazy. It’s like a mad-scientist experiment gone wrong and we are the test subjects.

I don’t think I’ve seen conditions go over the 25 stack cap outside pve except when a rev or guardian use the skill that pull all condi to themselves. Condition application isn’t THAT kittened.

I’ve pulled it off with a ranger crit bleed build but it requires blowing multiple cooldowns and chain cc’ing to prevent cleanse…. or just playing against someone dumb enough to blow all their cleanse in the first few seconds of a fight.

Jana.6831:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Honestly the biggest issue more than anything else is rangers lack damage in zerg fights because we have a damage tax imposed on us because our pets are supposed to make up a percentage of it. Our pets don’t cleave, don’t share in our buffs (they can get our boons if we sacrifice an entire traitline but they still won’t get boosted stats from ascended gear or food/utility), and a ton of our traits are tied into our pets which spend the majority of the time dead in zerg fights.

Let me rephrase this: You lack AoE damage for zergs – I think the pet is the lesser problem.

The pet tax is the reason why rangers lack damage. Our weapons scale for kitten.

GROMIT.7829:

Jim Hunter.6821:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

The only difference is condis bypass all defenses once they are applied while power attacks don’t.

All defenses like resistance, -condi duration food, passive and active condi clears….

Only work while they are on cooldown and they have a HUGE cooldown where as condi’s can be applied and reapplied very easily. The biggest problem is the quick and continual application. there is only a a very small portion of people who can manage condis properly where as a large portion of people can dodge power builds and use damage mitigation easily.

So you are saying it’s a lack of knowledge on their part? I completely agree. It really help to know when to dodge, when to cleanse, instead of just spamming your defences and face tanking their condi application.

RodOfDeath.5247:

What’s with that weird one too where you down an elementalist in wvw and they sorta glide across the ground in downed state?

Not just ele’s, ive been seeing that with every profession. Could be a latency thing, or they could be crashing. When the hackers do it they move in short bursts, like little teleports.

Nuzt.7894:

SoS, don’t listen to the zerg kids in T1, SoS still has arguably the largest Auzzie crew.

With absolutely no one to fight….

Yup pretty much what the others have said, it’s not their class, it’s their build choice and skill level. That being said if I see a basic rank like a general I will target them first because they are inexperienced. I also tend to target diamond ranks really early on because most (not all) are zergers that have no idea how to fight.

Chaba.5410:

Last night in some blob on blob three-way SMC fights, I saw a dude on ranger who had gotten upset the night before that he was kicked out of another guild’s squad. The thing is, every time we ran through the lord’s room, I noticed the guy was dead on the floor. I don’t understand how being dead constantly can be fun if you are playing for fun.

People say play whatever you want, have fun, it is just a game. How is being dead constantly fun? It is a serious question. You have to respawn and run back to the fight constantly and you miss out on getting loot. Most players I know who are really good at ranger play it because they love playing the role ranger is suited for. They love roaming on a borderland and picking off other roamers and havocking and scouting and trying to solo tower lords.

That has more to do with that particular players lack of skill and build choice than anything else. I can put together a ranger build that can front line and survive without a problem. I could even make it semi useful with condi clears, boons and water fields. It still just wouldn’t be as useful as running a rev, necro, ele, or guard.

Honestly the biggest issue more than anything else is rangers lack damage in zerg fights because we have a damage tax imposed on us because our pets are supposed to make up a percentage of it. Our pets don’t cleave, don’t share in our buffs (they can get our boons if we sacrifice an entire traitline but they still won’t get boosted stats from ascended gear or food/utility), and a ton of our traits are tied into our pets which spend the majority of the time dead in zerg fights.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

The only difference is condis bypass all defenses once they are applied while power attacks don’t.

All defenses like resistance, -condi duration food, passive and active condi clears….

Hexalot.8194:

Jim Hunter.6821:

anduriell.6280:

Jeknar.6184:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Rayya.2591:

why they allow rangers in wvw anyway ?
nobody like them
even rangers hate eachother

To kill thieves.

Pet swap for quickness unto RP+Bb F2 is glorious.

for baddies it is.

Luckily 90% of thieves are terrible.

While the other 10% dance on your corpses.

Lol not really. The other 10% don’t insta die. Who ends up winning at that point usually comes down to build choices, or external factors like someone +1ing.

anduriell.6280:

Jeknar.6184:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Rayya.2591:

why they allow rangers in wvw anyway ?
nobody like them
even rangers hate eachother

To kill thieves.

Pet swap for quickness unto RP+Bb F2 is glorious.

for baddies it is.

Luckily 90% of thieves are terrible.

Rayya.2591:

why they allow rangers in wvw anyway ?
nobody like them
even rangers hate eachother

To kill thieves.

SloRules.3560:

Johje Holan.4607:

Question: In a non-queue situation.

• Would you rather have someone play Ranger and stay in the back and be somewhat helpful; at least they provide damage?
• Or get on a Guardian, which they are bad at, and get in the front line and not really be any good there, perhaps even hurting the team by not doing what is needed?
• Or would you rather have them log off and not play at all?

Go on guardian, eventualy you will learn how to play it and be usefull.

Or better yet they could just go rev. They can pew pew with the hammer while crapping out boons. Pretty low learning curve there.

Well for pve you should drop the GS, it’s a pretty low dps weapon. It works well for pvp though, it gives a lot of utility and a decent burst with maul.

But in PvP/WvW you are usually better off running either LB/staff or GS/staff.
The staff gives mobility, a blast finisher, it is really helpful for charging your celestial form, and it bypasses all the projectile hate.

Check out metabattle or just look through some of the threads in this subforum, there are plenty of builds posted to help you get started.

Do you have HoT or are you on a vanilla account?

HoneyBadger.5691:

Then don’t tag, I and many others could care less. I play games to have fun, and if ranger is what’s fun that day to the exclusion of others, that’s what’s being played. If someone running around with a tag has a problem with it, they should re-evaluate why they’re playing a video game.

I play my ranger every day. Ranger had been my main since I started playing GW1 eleven years ago. There is plenty of things a ranger excels at in wvw that doesn’t involve trying to shoe horn your way into a zerg that is trying to run a certain comp.

If you are going to run with a group you make adjustments to your play so you don’t ruin their enjoyment of the game.

Doing anything else is either lazy, selfish, or both.

HoneyBadger.5691:

If you hear a cmdr complain about ranger/thief just bring one, it’s not like there’s anything they can do to stop you from playing what you want.

Or don’t be a kitten…..
The commander isn’t being payed to be there, they don’t have to tag for your lazy pug kitten . If you are going to join the group you should try to work with them.

saerni.2584:

First, Anet themselves removed direct damage from thief traps to promote this kind of gameplay.

Second, the ability to clear conditions regularly renders this kind of build almost useless. If someone doesn’t carry condition clear they are dead regardless of whether the player is attacking from stealth or not. What people who don’t play condition builds don’t understand is that condition builds must regularly apply conditions, in sufficient quantities, in order to overcome both condition clears and healing. A trapper build generally cannot apply sufficient conditions without leaving stealth and a few condition clears will mean there is zero pressure on the target.

Third, there are anti-stealth abilities on the ranger, on the scrapper, and on the anti-stealth trap. There is also stealth, which itself is a counter to someone using stealth. These abilities exist for a reason in a game where one of the main classes was originally designed around using stealth to both evade damage and deal damage. Calling for an end to stealth is basically asking Anet, unreasonably, to re-invent the entire class to make PvP easier for you.

Fourth, this build is a short range build. This means traps that you lay down are going to be effective. Using abilities when the traps go off that can disrupt stealth stacking may reveal the thief without having to do anything. A DH might, for example, use a knockback arrow aimed at the blackpowder circle to stop the thief from stacking stealth.

Finally, you can also see the traps when they are initially placed down. Dodge through the trap to not get hit at all. I’ve done this several times against a thief, not perma stealth but with high uptime, who was using traps on me. Seeing the traps was huge, I didn’t even need to cleanse because evading through the trap negated the damage completely.

You can’t see the traps being placed if the thief is already stealthed.
Rangers need a target to use sic’em, it doesn’t work if they are perma stealthed.
Knock back projectiles like point blank shot are nearly impossible to land without a target, hell even with a target you end up being obstructed by the air 50% of the time.

Dawdler.8521:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Never left, and yeah they unnecessarily nerfed trap runes when that want the problem, all that did was hurt other builds.
What needed to happen was to have direct damage added to the traps so they reveal the thief when activated.

Problem with this is that its a flawed way of thinking given current implementation of stealth. Ok, so thief is revealed with direct damage on the trap. Then what? Smoke field, leap and thief is gone the next second. Wont be seen until the next trap.

Unless reveal is changed so that a thief (or any class thats in stealth) cannot stealth again for say 15s after having done damage, then yeah maybe I will agree with you.

Oh yeah, 15 seconds sounds absolutely reasonable…. maybe they should also change it so you can’t use any weapon skills while revealed, that would be another good balance change…

Trapper thief is an incredibly mediocre build. The problem is they can’t make the traps any better than they are because of the cheesy ghost thief.
If they added direct damage so the thieves would get revealed they could buff the traps to something worth using in a real build.

Never left, and yeah they unnecessarily nerfed trap runes when that want the problem, all that did was hurt other builds.
What needed to happen was to have direct damage added to the traps so they reveal the thief when activated.

/kicks broken thread

RyuDragnier.9476:

Nuzt.7894:

I would rather have pets turned off tbh, not only do they count as a body who could potentially take needed buffs from allies, they also account for a chunk of your damage. They are unreliable, die to easily, and always suffering from one bug or another.

Make them activated through the beastmastery line not by default.

Or make it so they don’t count to the 5 target limit.

Pets aren’t taking boons away from players, they have a lower priority on receiving them. The only way pets are getting boons is if the ranger is running nature magic and copying them to the pet, or if there aren’t 5 players in range when the boons are being shared.

Archon.6480:

@Justine… I was joking…

…..and I spent all day gearing up for a sweet axe/axe shortbow build

Justine.6351:

alain.1659:

You can use trapper condi ranger if you want a build without druid. It works and it is not that bad. Although I think there are certain builds and professions that can reach to the top level, it also depends to your ability to play your build.

Yes but would that build be better with druid Incorporated?

Absolutely it would. The stun break/condi clear, ancient seeds to hold them in the trap, the extra sustain from healing, the added mobility from either natural stride or celestial shadow, post HoT builds are unquestionably stronger.