Guild Wars 2

DmG.1953:

I don’t play anymore ,but I came here with plessure to see you QQing about this updates new maps.

So you are defending the new map just to kitten off Rajel?

…. If you have a problem with him that is your business but please find some other way to troll him. WvW hasn’t been in a great place for the past year and a half but the changes HoT brought are destroying what little fun was left in it. You are hurting more than just him by supporting it.

DmG.1953:

What you say is correct for one reason:ppl as I hear play PVE like maniacs since update. So ye new maps at the moent are for karma train.i bet though that in a league or when ppl get bored of the pve content ,WWW new maps will be a much better place for most of the ppl compare to old ones. Just go and watch which server are "dying"since update. SFR-FSP(cause they only blobbed at prime time or 24/7 against SFR for one mans madness or even 2 and Desolation even they are now no1 ,are complaining about new maps too and their guilds just like fsp. Server that normal size guild raids and played the game properly are having a blast as you see in this forum.

So yes,new maps are more than ok.ADAPT as most of the ppl here said or uninstall.

I play NA so those servers mean nothing to me, and the “people are playing PvE” excuse might have worked for the first couple weeks but how long are people going to keep repeating that nonsense?

Look through the threads, you will see the majority of the people that don’t like the new map are the roamers, home bl defenders, and small guilds that religiously played the alpine map and now have nothing to do.
These aren’t the people that played WvW when there is nothing else to do, these are the people that would spend hours every day doing nothing but WvW. They aren’t PvE’ing, they are logging in to try and play the game mode they have loved for years and finding it so broken that they log off after an hour.

Wp’s are still a problem if they get them at T0.

They need to do away with auto upgrades and move WP’s back to T3 if they want to see any activity on the bl’s other than the occasional karma train.

Zioba.6182:

Why should i stop taking this tower to defend something with no strategical value?

^So much this.
This paired with the new mechanics that discourage roaming is why the new map promotes k-training.

Wolfric.9380:

I am a small guild roamer and feel the pain of guild hall upgrades, auto upgrades and the lonesome maps….
But i can take upgraded camps solo … At least XD ….

Yeah I haven’t had a problem with that. Even fortified towers feel easier to solo than before…. it just feels so much more tedious now that I have to make so many more supply runs to build a cata, and now that no one put any effort into upgrading the tower and it doesn’t threaten a keep…. it’s just not worth the effort for 10 ppt.

Lol it’s kind of sad that the only viable option for roamers to have fun now is to leave WvW.

Not eu (and barely logging in now) so I’m just going to say gl getting this going, it’s not a bad idea.

Swagger.1459:

ArchonWing.9480:

Swagger.1459:

ArchonWing.9480:

Oh god, put it away before it gets taken seriously.

Just wondering, what’s more important, a healthy and thriving wvw environment where 4 maps are packed more regularly or server pride?

I pick the later.

Personally, I would suggest to provide for free transfer off low activity servers, but do it so voluntarily. This gives almost the same effect. Oh, by the way, since 3 of the maps are desert BL, I’m afraid that’s not really going to help the situation.

The problem I see is where exactly do you draw the line on what to close, and who decides it? If someone thought everything below tier 2 should be closed, I’d tell them to kitten off. I mean, why would I change the nature of my WvW just to satisify someone else’s idea of balance? But if people see that WvW is not suitable here and the server is not worth staying on, then they will take the chance to leave and there you go, servers merged.

It only costs 500-1000 gems per person to “merge” tiers, honestly.

Unfortunately, though, a healthy wvw population trumps server pride.

Think about this… Guilds cross server lines. Guild “initiative” with guild halls and guild arenas and guild must do “this and that” together… Guild wvw achievements… Eotm megaservers work and are always busy, fast paced and fun…

If you put it all of the above together what do you get? Guild Wars…

Servers don’t bring people together like guilds do so it only makes sense now.

Server pride is what keeps people defending and fighting. Removing that is the last step to turning WvW completely into eotm. People will just k train.

I’m surprised the 5ish people that are supporting auto upgrades in every thread aren’t jumping all over this idea with their support for it.

I mean it’s basically the same thing right?

Swagger.1459:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Merging servers is pretty pointless unless they fix some of the underlying problems. WvW is bleeding players like never before, merging servers right now would be like jumping from a sinking ship into a sinking lifeboat.

They will do the eotm megaservers to fix all the problems

Gross

Merging servers is pretty pointless unless they fix some of the underlying problems. WvW is bleeding players like never before, merging servers right now would be like jumping from a sinking ship into a sinking lifeboat.

atheria.2837:

Anet, you know that some accounts are broken and not able to go into PvP and use or switch any pets.

When?

How long before you fix one third of the game not working for some?

If this was a “bug” that helpd rangers it would be fixed in <24 hours…… but it’s not so I expect to see it fixed about the same time as all the other pet bugs…. you know, never.

misterdevious.6482:

Mitz.5741:

Waking up and seeing our border all fortified because of the enemy night cap and knowing they didnt do kitten to get that is one of the reasons i dont even bother logging on anymore (for most of the day anyway)

The enemy doesn’t have to do anything to get your stuff fortified, but…

• If they didn’t bother to control the camps or protect yaks… their upgrades took 6 hours.
• If they didn’t do the laser event… either of the other teams could have severely damaged these gates.
• If they didn’t bother to repair the laser damage, their gates may be sitting wide open, paper thin, or at 52%.
• If they did repair one laser attack, they may not have any supply to repair another.

Here’s the math: It takes 1 person about 35 minutes to do the laser event solo on an empty map. It takes 1 person almost 2 hours to repair the damage from a single laser to all the fortified gates on the map and requires 4180 supply… basically all the supply in all the keeps and towers.

If auto-upgrades are changed, the laser event needs to be changed as well because the only way to defend your manually upgrade stuff from the laser will be either a) stopping the enemy from completing the laser event or b) spending 4180 supply to fix the damage done. The situation remains the same as it is now with two differences. First, you will hate the laser more for opening up your manually upgraded stuff, and you will hate that you have to spend so much time repairing laser damage. Second, the stuff you don’t bother to upgrade will have wide open doors much sooner. Right now the laser somewhat balances the auto-upgrades… against manual upgrades, it will probably be overpowering because people still won’t want to repair the entire map.

You need to do the laser event 3 times to fully take down fortified gates. So doing the event as a solo player in the middle of the night (the time frame the op is having a problem with) is waste of time because you can’t solo build the rams before the guards take them out. The only way it is worth doing is if the event pops immediately after everything has flipped and even then it is unlikely that you will be able to get to everything before they upgrade and the gates repair.

With the old map and mechanics 1 player with G catas could flip back their entire map in a couple hours if the dominant server didn’t stick around to upgrade.
If they did stick around you could at least keep things paper by flipping camps and sniping yaks.

Anyway this is a pointless argument because auto upgrades an the laser are both terrible for WvW. I don’t care how 1 would be too strong without the other, they both need to go.

Empyrium.7058:

It is also annoying for the people who likes to upgrade/defend objectives. At the moment theres no point to defend or care about objectives because of auto upgrades.

It’s also bad for offensive roamers since the defenders aren’t there to fight and no one cares about camps or yaks.

Skeletor.9360:

I feel its worth a revisit to see how them predictions turned out.

Give it time, people are just busy with the halloween event…. oh wait…

ArchonWing.9480:

Hey don’t knock Charpy brah.

Also it seems nobody has kited the grub into Bravost. And personally, I think the Dredge and frogs worked fairly fine and same with Siegerazer— they’re a small strategic location that doesn’t affect much. I can’t say the same for gate destroying lasers…

Dredge won’t attack bravost anymore, it’s been at least six months since you could do that

I never liked siege razor, dredge or frogs. Dredge and frogs feel like a chore and the events scale horribly for roamers.
Siege razor was too easy for large groups to abuse. There was nothing worse than a group 2-3 times your size starting razer, managing to pull off a clutch defense, kill razer, and then watch them WP to spawn and come back with razer again…. and again…

you forgot to type /s

Offair.2563:

Maybe a chest with a chest inside that doesnt stack and gives soulbound items every 3 minutes you watch. And a map meta completion chest when you watch the whole capture of a borderland.

Just have to make sure 90% of those soulbound items are crafting materials like bloodstone dust.

Offair.2563:

Siegerazer with npc blob taking it all, when done siegecrusher starts at ole citadel and do the same, joining wvw will put you into spectator mode. there, a fully automated borderland.

/Sarcasm off.

This could work, but only if you still got rewards. Everyone knows WvW players have stuck to this game mode because of how rewarding it is.

Anthrage.2519:

I feel there is still a role for roamers in WvW, though it has changed somewhat, and find that Ranger continues to be a good platform for it. With the increase in actual choke-points with these (horrible) new BL maps, certain Ranger builds have new utility.

Might be true if 75% of their shots weren’t being obstructed by the air in the new bl. On the other hand they are able to shoot through walls half the time now so I guess it balances out…

MithranArkanere.8957:

Jim Hunter.6821:

[…]

So killing other players in WvW is griefing and we should have more npc’s to fight……

Are you sure you wouldn’t just be happier in pve?

Don’t start one of those void ‘PvE scrub’ arguments. WvW is both PvE and PvP. We have PvE gear instead the standard PvP gear. There’s NPCs to fight. That won’t change anytime soon no matter hot much anyone may dislike that. Why is that? Because of the same reason I already explained: There’s no way to make sure there will always be players. So there must always be something else to fight or instead PvE it’ll be PvFreaking doors and walls. So, right now the only solution is NPCs. Unless some genius comes with a better thing.

So, what I’m saying is not “we need more PvE”.

What I say is that there should be fun reasons to stick at certain locations and defend them. And that I can’t think of anything else other than events. Why? Because, again, there’s no way to make sure players will always want to go to every specific location at all times, so AI will have to do.

So, you could do things having supply camps that look like farms, quarries or lumbermills start an event next to them in which some NPCs do something like mining some ore, chopping some trees, harvest some crops or slaughter some cows. And they will be attacked by other NPCs in the meantime, like wild animals, bandits, skirtt, ogre and centaur raiders, etc. If the NPCs finish their thing, the location gets a bit extra supply, and the current upgrade get a little progress bump. If they are killed and can’t finish, the location goes slower for a little while.

So what would players do? After capturing the spot, 1-2 player stay behind, and help the NPCs. While they guard the spot, they won’t get bored as there’s something else to do. And if enemy players come, the ‘Help NPCs’ event is interrupted, and the ‘defend the location’ event starts right away. Defend the spot, the NPC event goes on. Fail, the enemy takes over.

Players will always have to be careful, because they may get distracted with the NPC event. And enemies may take advantage of that to do surpirse attacks. Surprise attacks are cool.

If done right, when you roam, you’ll encounter players more often on every location, as it’ll be more likely for each supply line to have at least a few players sticking around doing the events between the camps and the towers and keeps, instead going with the rest of the zergs mindlessly flipping locations.

Wow…. look guys, I found anet’s target audience. A ”WvW player” that feels like the one thing WvW really needs to be more successful is more Pve…

Clearly you are on to something, that’s why things like the grub event, the harpy, and the new bl are so successful….

MithranArkanere.8957:

Jim Hunter.6821:

MithranArkanere.8957:

We need a series of NPC events to have something to do when there’s no other players, that are canceled if players do come.

No…… no we don’t. The PvE gimmicks and WvW being on auto pilot is a big part of why a bunch of us have quit roaming, the last thing we need is more of it.

Then you are calling ‘roaming’ to going around hunting lone players trying to get somewhere. That’s not roaming, that’s borderline griefing.

An actual roamer will take sentries, camps and other objectives with no walls, roam between those locations, scouting the routes between them, defend them from other roamers, and warn the map about larger groups. Not run around capturing where there’s nobody and avoiding each other like in some sort of convoluted musical chairs, or looking for newbies with a green arrow next to their level for easy targets like in some third rate mmo with PK enabled in starting zones.

But if there’s nothing going on in the locations you defend, you either go somewhere else, leaving your locations unprotected, or stay there doing nothing but wasting your time.

Leaving locations unprotected is not something that anything in WvW should encourage.

Waiting doing nothing is boring. And this is a game. And games are meant to be fun. So there should never any reason to wait doing nothing. There should always something to do.

But in a large scale map, you can’t be sure there will always be players everywhere. And you can’t disable the upgrades so the reason to be there is just pressing a button so it advances. That’s boring too.

So all that’s left to encourage players to stick in some place even if enemy players do not come is something else to do. And unless anyone can come up with something better, the only thing left are events against AI.

Giving a reason to stick to one place, when you arrive at an enemy point, it’ll be way more likely to have an actual fight because someone may be there. Then, when actual players come, the ‘PvE gimmick’ as you call it would simply go away like when remaining unfinished events fail when a meta-event advances, so players can focus completely on the enemy.

So killing other players in WvW is griefing and we should have more npc’s to fight……

Are you sure you wouldn’t just be happier in pve?

Soon.5240:

No one is playing because it is automated. More automation is not the answer, it’s the problem.

I dunno man, I’ve seen a lot of posts saying how great the auto upgrades are. If we get this auto karma train going we will have action 24/7 and we won’t even need players. Doesn’t that sound exciting?!

I think it’s unfair that the defense is so automated but attacking isn’t.
They should bring back siegerazor and have him roam the map attacking 1 structure at a time.
As soon as you WP onto a map you are immediately teleported to siegerazors location, you auto follow him unless you manually move from his location, and he now spawns minion npc’s to build and man the siege that he spawns at each tower.
If no one logs on to trigger siegerazor he’ll just move out on his own with his little minions to attack things.

Sounds like a solution that anet can get behind to solve the population problem doesn’kitten Most people find it expensive and boring to tag up and take structures so let’s make it easier on everyone by making it automated.

Sulas.3521:

I got the t-shirt
http://www.cafepress.com/cp/customize/product2.aspx?number=1676035563

+1

morrolan.9608:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Torgrim.3642:

I ain’t gonna set my foot ever again on that new map, not even EB with that stupid upgrade system.
Time for a long wait for Crowfall.

I was just looking at videos for Crowfall.
An RvR game with player collision, that’s how you break up zergs.

Yeah I’m looking forward to Crowfall more than CU.

For me CU will entirely depend on the sub fee, but yeah… Crowfall looks more interesting so far.

There is a very good chance I won’t even bother logging in for reset….. so I guess that will count as me not attacking anything right?

msalakka.4653:

I think I’ve even lost a little weight!

Right?! I’ve been getting a lot more exercise since I basically quit playing. Thanks anet, you made it very easy to finally leave this game.

Torgrim.3642:

I ain’t gonna set my foot ever again on that new map, not even EB with that stupid upgrade system.
Time for a long wait for Crowfall.

I was just looking at videos for Crowfall.
An RvR game with player collision, that’s how you break up zergs.

Conner.4702:

Phantom.8130:

coglin.1867:

Than you Phantom, for supporting my argument so whole heartedly.

When you look at the older threads, you can clearly see multiple posters making demands. When you look at some of the new map aspects that they are complaining about, you can clearly see what they are complaining about, fulfills what they were demanding in the earlier threads.

Thanks for your help Phantom.

No. really, not even remotely. The map design that was being discussed, with a picture mind you, is completely different than what was made. The map that was discussed, with the picture, is a good map with strategic relevance and directs the flow of traffic. The maps that were made have zero strategic relevance, even less than the old maps had, and actively scatter people.

Stop being intellectually dishonest. Stop acting like this is some cable news politics show. Stop being pretending to be completely obtuse. Stop blatantly trolling. Stop sidestepping and skirting the issue. How were these suggestions unclear?

Got one for you. Stop arguing with someone who’s only goal is to argue. He’s not out to make the game better or get people to play. The only goal in mind is to argue and argue more while ignoring any and all proof. For proof look at post history.

^

Shadelang.3012:

neville.3420:

Treat bunker druids like you would PU mesmers. Just walk away.

You may not be able to kill them, but If you die to them then you’re just bad.

Haha thats true. Except in PvP the old PU mesmer couldnt hold a point or heal the lord. In this case they can. When there actually inbetween you and the objective you need to win. That becomes an issue.

Druids can’t hold a point either. Both of their stability skills take a full second to cast. Just knock them off point and keep them CC’ed. Once you cap it you can be full glass and bunker against them since they do such little damage.

That problem is as old as the game, people just got tired of bringing it up.

Let’s hope they don’t fix it. With their track record their ”fix” will be to remove fighting in WvW so no one ever goes into the downed state.

briggah.7910:

Jim Hunter.6821:

briggah.7910:

Jim Hunter.6821:

briggah.7910:

Raf.1078:

selan.8354:

id moove to t8 for the old borderland maps and mechanics…

I’d drop T2 like hot rock and move to any lower server for that.

Sure you would.. You guys realize that even up in t6 the bl’s were mostly empty until prime time if that or reset night. Only time we went there was when we wiped groups in EBG and they decided to go to our empty BL to try to take something.

Only time we actually went to an enemies BL was when they ninja’ed something in our bl so to get them back we did the same thing.. :P

I spent 90% of my play time in the alpine bl. There was always roaming fights, and there was often huge fights over wp’ed keeps that could go on for hours.

Depends on when you play.. I solo roamed bls for hours without seeing a single person. I got tired of taking camps with no one to stop me so I built trebs for keeps. That’s when people showed up.. Thing is though when people show up they leave other maps. Haven’t had a couple hour fights over anything in over a year.. Them days are long gone

I had one the week before HoT dropped, we even had a few 3 way fights that week over bl keeps.

Also, the prep work I would do on keeps would give me small scale fights for hours.

Yea, gotta agree I used to do lots of upgrading and that is where a lot of my fights came from. Just seemed to me when the release date for HoT came out people took breaks and never came back.

A lot of them came back and hated what HoT did to WvW and left again.

briggah.7910:

Jim Hunter.6821:

briggah.7910:

Raf.1078:

selan.8354:

id moove to t8 for the old borderland maps and mechanics…

I’d drop T2 like hot rock and move to any lower server for that.

Sure you would.. You guys realize that even up in t6 the bl’s were mostly empty until prime time if that or reset night. Only time we went there was when we wiped groups in EBG and they decided to go to our empty BL to try to take something.

Only time we actually went to an enemies BL was when they ninja’ed something in our bl so to get them back we did the same thing.. :P

I spent 90% of my play time in the alpine bl. There was always roaming fights, and there was often huge fights over wp’ed keeps that could go on for hours.

Depends on when you play.. I solo roamed bls for hours without seeing a single person. I got tired of taking camps with no one to stop me so I built trebs for keeps. That’s when people showed up.. Thing is though when people show up they leave other maps. Haven’t had a couple hour fights over anything in over a year.. Them days are long gone

I had one the week before HoT dropped, we even had a few 3 way fights that week over bl keeps.

Also, the prep work I would do on keeps would give me small scale fights for hours.

mistsim.2748:

Blaeys.3102:

WvW always slows down during holiday events and new PvE content.
.

this certainly wasn’t the case 2 years ago. even if it did “slow down”, there were plenty of people left to fill up BL’s and EBG. WvW just isn’t attracting anyone at all.

The population wasn’t close to what it was 2 years ago even before HoT release. In most of the tiers you wouldn’t see many large zergs running outside of primetime, but you would see a ton of small groups through out the day.
But HoT released a crap ton of changes that has ruined WvW for small groups, so yeah… it’s dead.

briggah.7910:

Raf.1078:

selan.8354:

id moove to t8 for the old borderland maps and mechanics…

I’d drop T2 like hot rock and move to any lower server for that.

Sure you would.. You guys realize that even up in t6 the bl’s were mostly empty until prime time if that or reset night. Only time we went there was when we wiped groups in EBG and they decided to go to our empty BL to try to take something.

Only time we actually went to an enemies BL was when they ninja’ed something in our bl so to get them back we did the same thing.. :P

I spent 90% of my play time in the alpine bl. There was always roaming fights, and there was often huge fights over wp’ed keeps that could go on for hours.

coglin.1867:

atheria.2837:

Tzozef.9841:

Yea…THIS ^

Simply for the survival of smaller servers, (kaineng, Eredon Terrace, and Devona’s Rest) For example.

ET is barren, any server match up against it is a free map to cap.

If you aren’t gonna merge servers like ET with another, you gotta give those lower Bronze Tier at least Alphine back. Desert is just incapable.

No, I want them back too and I am in T1.

Our Alpine maps are what make WvW so amazing, not the dry, nasty, no WP, totally automated mess they call WvW.

Yet there were threads almost daily, demanding new maps, some of which had thousands of post support the demand for new maps, changes to the upgrade system, and changes to the supply system to counter supply trolls.

If someone complained that their foot hurt because they had a broken toe would you advise them to cut their leg off at the knee and get a prosthetic?

Ben K.6238:

Jim Hunter.6821:

You just described why it sucks for roaming.
No one is there upgrading the bl since it’s on auto pilot, and since upgrades require no effort and the towers/keeps are completely disconnected, no one cares to defend.

This means the only way you’ll find a fight is if you just happen to run into each other.

The problem I used to see on the old BLs was that the only people there were the ones upgrading, and they were generally not good fighters. Bad fights are better than no fights, but the changes have just made a major problem in WvW more obvious – defending is a fool’s errand.

A lot of them did suck at fighting, and after dying multiple times they would call in reinforcements. I can’t count the amount of times I had 30+ man groups respond for a handful of us.
This was one of the main objectives of roaming/havocing. We would force the zerg to split up or they would start losing things. Now they just karma train to their hearts content because roaming is no longer effective or meaningful.

coglin.1867:

Jim Hunter.6821:

coglin.1867:

No offence, but if you cannot take a keep that is manned by 5 people, when you have a “zerg”, the fault is on you. All the upgrades do is cause more damage needed to take down a wall or gate.the time difference it takes is not game changing in any meaningful way.

As well, you can do the oasis event and take a T3 gat to 25%. You have to do a very very poor job to fail against 5 with a zerg, regardless of what tier a keep or tower is.

For once you are right. The auto upgrades doesn’t make a big difference for zergs.

Probably more often then not actually, but thanks for noticing.

Jim Hunter.6821:

It does play a big part in the destruction of roaming though. Camps aren’t mandatory for upgrades so people aren’t in a rush to defend them, they just wait inside their towers and keeps for you to get bored and move on before coming out to back cap them.

Nothing killed roaming, nor do I buy your claim here. “You” may be running off, or not defending them, but me and mine seem to. As we value having our upgrades done twice as fast as without the yaks.

Jim Hunter.6821:

No effort went into upgrading anything so people don’t care as much about defending. They will show up if they are close, but they rarely map hop or make the run to defend stuff if it’s far.

I don’t think you have a know what people do or do not care about. But you sure try hard to disingenuously claim to speak for them. Perhaps it would be best if you stick to speaking for yourself, and sharing your opinion, instead of claiming to say what everyone else is doing please. That might be better for everyone.

Jim Hunter.6821:

While zergs can still burn through T3 structures, it now takes at least 4 people to build 1 piece of sup siege, which means roamers are doing a lot of running for supply or spending 20-30 min per tower, longer for a keep.

Which adds more value to those who roam and take the effort to do so. Which in my opinion, contradicts your claims of it killing roaming.

Jim Hunter.6821:

And the sky splitter doesn’t take T3 gates to 25%. It needs to be fired 3 separate times to open T3 gates.

Well then, what does it take them down to, percentage wise?

I’m speaking for myself, my friends/guildies/server mates that roam, and a ton of other roamers that have been posting the exact same thing on this forum and the unofficial one.

The only thing that needed changing about the upgrades was the gold cost. I said a long time ago that it should have been switched to karma or badges. I still believe that should be the case.

Offair.2563:

Sky splitter gets t3 gates to 50% though

More like 60%. I got off work early one morning and did the event at about 5am and then again at 8, the gates were still at about 20%.

coglin.1867:

No offence, but if you cannot take a keep that is manned by 5 people, when you have a “zerg”, the fault is on you. All the upgrades do is cause more damage needed to take down a wall or gate.the time difference it takes is not game changing in any meaningful way.

As well, you can do the oasis event and take a T3 gat to 25%. You have to do a very very poor job to fail against 5 with a zerg, regardless of what tier a keep or tower is.

For once you are right. The auto upgrades doesn’t make a big difference for zergs.

It does play a big part in the destruction of roaming though. Camps aren’t mandatory for upgrades so people aren’t in a rush to defend them, they just wait inside their towers and keeps for you to get bored and move on before coming out to back cap them.
No effort went into upgrading anything so people don’t care as much about defending. They will show up if they are close, but they rarely map hop or make the run to defend stuff if it’s far.
While zergs can still burn through T3 structures, it now takes at least 4 people to build 1 piece of sup siege, which means roamers are doing a lot of running for supply or spending 20-30 min per tower, longer for a keep.

And the sky splitter doesn’t take T3 gates to 25%. It needs to be fired 3 separate times to open T3 gates.

style.6173:

ANET lives and dies by its metrics. They know that fewer people are playing WvW since the update. I’m sure the guy in charge of WvW is looking for any excuse possible right now.

ANET has to do something and quick. Eventually the excuses will run out.

There’s a guy in charge of WvW?

Lord Kuru.3685:

Actually, this might be a good idea for repopulating the lower tiers. It gives players great incentive to transfer in order to get back the old BLs.

That’s what I was thinking. People will transfer and then rig the matches to make sure none of the servers gains enough glicko to move up lol.

Jski.6180:

Its a question of why ppl wvw. Your in it for ppt or fights both of witch you need players to make it work. The new BL have good ppt tools and very open spaces for fights if players do not use them though then no one will be there. So its less of a map problem its more of person hang up players have with “new” things.
MMORPG players are some of the most fearful of changes in the gaming world.

I’m sorry but you are wrong.
So many of my friends and guildies were extremely excited about getting a new map. We were looking forward to having something to break up the routine. It was after playing the map and realizing how poorly designed it was for WvW that we started avoiding it.

It’s also not good for fighting since for the most part the open areas aren’t near the objectives. The objectives are full of gimmicky mechanics that interfere with fights and choke points which promotes pirate shipping.

Yes there are open areas where you could have a fight that you pre arranged, but why wouldn’t you have those types of fights in OS or the guild arena? Why would you pick a spot on the map that involves a lot of running to get to, and where you could possibly be interrupted?

I’ve never enjoyed roaming in EB and the new bl is terrible for roamers. I have probably given the new bl 15-20 hours hoping I would start to enjoy it but the layout and mechanics are terrible for WvW.

I haven’t played since friday, SPvP just isn’t enough to keep me interested in this game and WvW is ruined.

I’m keeping my eye on the game in the hopes that they will fix it, and I may jump in for a guild run every so often, but GW2 is no longer part of my daily routine.

PariahX.6970:

They thought they could create one map that would please everyone with every different kind of play style

That’s very possible. It’s like a parent asking their kids what they want for dinner, 1 kid says fish sticks, 1 says pizza, 1 says ice cream, instead of picking 1 the parent tries to please them all and tosses all the food into a blender with a bunch of vegetables (pve) that they didn’t ask for but the parent wants them to have. What you end up with is an inedible mess that no one enjoys.

The map doesn’t have to be full for people to enjoy themselves. A ton of roamers and skirmishers preferred the alpine bl’s because they could get into fights without a map queue sized blob interrupting them.

It also gave us a way of breaking up the omni blob that certain servers liked using. If they had everyone Voltron’ed up together to hit our EB keep a handful of us could go hit one of their bl wp’s and force them to break off or lose a keep.

These types of tactics no longer work because of the new wp/upgrade mechanics, and map design. That’s why you are seeing complaints.

A lot of people have said there is too much PvE in the map, meaning that the PvE events on the map have far too much of an affect on the game than most PVP focused players care for. Having the map shoot fire balls, knock people off cliffs, spawn barricades, stealth groups of players, open gates, etc. means you are fighting the environment more than you are the players.
When I’m fighting someone or groups of people I want the outcome to be determined by skill and the choices we have made. I don’t want to be fighting and suddenly see my opponent get knocked off a cliff by some turret. These kind of gimmicky mechanics are a big part of what is ruining the map for PvP focused players and are part of the reason why it is doing so poorly.

The question is why was it designed this way?

I can think of 2 reasons. Either anet thought that by including all of these PvE gimmicks onto the map they would attract some of the PvE population to WvW to help fill out the servers.
This would be well intentioned but poorly implemented. Players that strictly PvE do not enjoy fighting other players and are definitely not going to play in a game mode where the rewards are so much worse than what they are used to. For them the new map would be a large tedious dungeon that actually costs you money to play.

The second possible reason is they are purposefully trying to alienate the players that strictly WvW/PvP in order to make the game mode more casual. If they are successful in making it more casual they could finally implement the mega server in WvW and devote less resources to the game mode, saving them time and money.
This would also explain why they thought auto upgrading was a good idea and why the new map seems to be designed for k-training.

Jayne.9251:

Aye, I’m all for community training, that’s how you build a solid community. I guess I’d like to see that as the carrot, before the rewards plan is tried, since you’ll likely get more people who feel part of a team, rather than isolated part of the ktrain.

We’ve been trying that for the past 3 years, that’s not something that will entice the PvE players to WvW, they are motivated by their digital rewards. We can’t teach them there are ways to have fun without chasing some new shiny, until we get them on the map.

apharma.3741:

Jim Hunter.6821:

apharma.3741:

The event in the middle may be a collection event but you are still fighting players. Collection events are also nothing new to PvP, ever played spirit watch? Been there for a long time, some like it some don’t but to claim it’s a PvE event because it has an NPC there to dump the shines into is just silly.

I personally like the way shrines work. No longer can you jump into a map with 50 people and golem rush garri, you have to think, take shrines, weaken the fortress and then attack. If map and situational awareness is too much for the “WvW is my whole game” people then I dunno what to say, I guess face rubbing doors has really affected the die hard WvW fans more than we thought.

Also please don’t pretend like the vocal minority here is indicative of the whole population or those you feel WvW is the entire game. I’ve seen many of my friends enjoying these changes and maps who fit into your category. Likewise of my friends list I have roughly 20 people who primarily play WvW. Upon asking most of them why they aren’t there it’s because they’re doing PvE to get guild upgrades, lag in WvW and because the only maps they can get into, the borders, there’s no-one. To clarify a lot of them do not mind the map either.

So out of your list of primary WvW friends none of them are playing it…..

”I don’t mind the new map but I can’t get into EB so I’m just going to pve instead.”

k.

Also, there is a reason why spirit watch is one of the most hated maps and it was never included in ranked.

I did not say that please don’t resort to changing my words and passing it off as a quote.

They don’t play the new borderland because people aren’t there. There’s no-one to fight because of ignorant and elitist WvW players choosing to treat the new maps with scorn. They go to a fully capped border, shrug, go to another. Cap it with no resistance and decide eff this I’ll go to a more rewarding place.

The problem is players aren’t there to fight not the maps, the lag and because of rewards being vastly better in PvE.

I never once played in the alpine map for the rewards.

And WvW players not enjoying pve as much as you do doesn’t make them ”ignorant and elitist”. Don’t resort to insulting people because you don’t have a strong argument.