Guild Wars 2

Can the tactics be run in multiple structures by the same guild or can they only hold one structure at a time?

This is a large part of the reason so many of our defenders/upgraders had multiple small or solo guilds.

It’s worse for roaming than it is for zerging.

The map itself discourages fighting.
It’s hard to find each other.
the lack of wp’s discourage fighting because you don’t want to spend 5 minutes running back to a fight.
Even when you do see an enemy there is almost never a straight path to get to them, you have to run some convoluted maze, likely being hit with ranged damage the whole time.
Pve gimmicks like the stealth sandstorm, no falling damage, etc. discourage fighting because one side is always at a huge disadvantage.

There was no time or effort invested in the upgrades and every structure is isolated so there is no incentive to defend anything. You will receive greater rewards for k-training somewhere else and then just back capping.

Even if they did implement in game voice comm’s, what’s to stop someone from logging onto their alt account that is on another faction and spying?

With TS we can control who we let in…. WvW megaservers is just a fail idea on so many levels.

+1 excellent write up

lil devils x.6071:

Catalin.5341:

1. Not really. You want to have a situation where a small team can use the terrain against a blob and annihilate it with choke points, portal bombs, stealth etc. Bland plain maps are boring.

2. Learn the map

3. If by PVE you mean shrines, well, just forget about them and do your own thing. Why care?

4. No. That’s sPvP. I think you’re in the wrong forum

The reason no one plays the new maps is because they suck. No, WvW = large scale pvp not run around in an empty map and hide BS. That has no use in any PVP mode.

We do not have a decrease in players, we have a decrease in players on the BL maps and a Q 24/7 for EB now with people choosing to stand at the bank waiting in LA than step foot on the BL till their Q pops. Yes that is the new maps fault.

We actually do have a decrease. There used to be players that would spend hours upgrading and defending the bl, and there were roamers/havok on the bl’s to oppose them. Now when I log on and check my friends list those players are all offline, doing pvp, or something.

Without those players to initiate the action on the bl’s you are left with what we have now…. Empty bl’s that occasionally get k-trained.

Catalin.5341:

You can’t attribute the decrease of players to the desert borderlands.

Yes you can.
Before HoT I would spend multiple hours every day roaming the bl’s. Now I play maybe once or twice a week. The same goes for the majority of my friends list.

I learned the map as soon as it was released. It’s not a lack of knowledge that’s keeping me from being there and I’m not boring myself to death by playing pve. The map is bad. The gimmicky mechanics make it worse.

LetoII.3782:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Forgive me if I don’t feel like summarizing 3 years worth of ideas

Anet has had a ton of input since launch.

Though I think part of the problem may be their most devoted haven’t been allowed to post here for a long, long time. I know most of the T1na guild leaders have been banned since Feb. 2013 xD

I have to swap which account I post from every few months. That 10 minute flood control is a kitten.

Swagger.1459:

Do you know any solutions to fix wvw?

I’ve offered plenty of solutions over the years. One of my threads turned into a 30ish page discussion where people that actually play WvW discussed the population issue and proposed multiple solutions that didn’t involve destroying WvW and turning it into eotm.

Forgive me if I don’t feel like summarizing 3 years worth of ideas for some bored PvE player that probably won’t even be here next week.

Swagger.1459:

Idk, guys I think world rank 842 is experienced enough to make a judgment on wvw…

It’s kind of adorable that you think running circles in eotm makes you experienced enough to talk about what WvW needs

Swagger.1459:

Puck.9612:

Swagger.1459:

You do realize that eotm is the testing ground for wvw right?

Yes and they’ve shown what doesn’t work for WvW. Eotm has proven that megaservers promote casual play and k-trains.

That’s the purpose of a testing ground, you find out what works and what doesn’t. You don’t test something out, find out it would destroy what’s left of competitive play, and then implement it anyway…

Open your mind…

Sigh…. still dealing with “flood control” on that account…

My mind is open to good ideas… sorry I don’t blindly agree with every idea that is suggested.

Watch this end up being the rumored ” WvW overhaul”

Quit spamming the forum with this dumb idea

They need to make sure there is at least a couple npc’s on each server that use fly hacks and/or rage quit when you go to stomp them.

Found this in another thread, apparently the idea of WvW playing itself is catching on.

Just a thought for discussion.

Replace what would have been players in an empty map with respective npcs (until it reaches the player cap of that map), that is organized and constantly fight to capture and hold key strategic areas, in a perpetual conflict that would (without intervention) result in a balance equilibrium or equal points to each team. When a player does log on, they will randomly replace an npc. If enough players log on, then all the npcs will be replaced. Depending on the numbers of npcs remaining on map, their roles may change as well. Imagine the forever epic feel of logging on a map to find fights always happening!

Now a privileged player (one with commander tag or some other ability or prerequisite) could influence npcs and give them instructions and focus. So in theory, even if only one human player plays on a server in tier 8, for a few hours a day, could make a difference to their server if they make good decisions to manage the npcs.

In another scenario, imagine a lesser populated server paired off against a larger populated one. It may give a cunning player a fighting chance if the player could instruct the npcs to attempt to capture points all over the map forcing the larger group to commit players to defend.

Found this in another thread, apparently the idea of WvW playing itself is catching on.

Just a thought for discussion.

Replace what would have been players in an empty map with respective npcs (until it reaches the player cap of that map), that is organized and constantly fight to capture and hold key strategic areas, in a perpetual conflict that would (without intervention) result in a balance equilibrium or equal points to each team. When a player does log on, they will randomly replace an npc. If enough players log on, then all the npcs will be replaced. Depending on the numbers of npcs remaining on map, their roles may change as well. Imagine the forever epic feel of logging on a map to find fights always happening!

Now a privileged player (one with commander tag or some other ability or prerequisite) could influence npcs and give them instructions and focus. So in theory, even if only one human player plays on a server in tier 8, for a few hours a day, could make a difference to their server if they make good decisions to manage the npcs.

In another scenario, imagine a lesser populated server paired off against a larger populated one. It may give a cunning player a fighting chance if the player could instruct the npcs to attempt to capture points all over the map forcing the larger group to commit players to defend.

lepewpwn.4726:

Just a thought for discussion.

Replace what would have been players in an empty map with respective npcs (until it reaches the player cap of that map), that is organized and constantly fight to capture and hold key strategic areas, in a perpetual conflict that would (without intervention) result in a balance equilibrium or equal points to each team. When a player does log on, they will randomly replace an npc. If enough players log on, then all the npcs will be replaced. Depending on the numbers of npcs remaining on map, their roles may change as well. Imagine the forever epic feel of logging on a map to find fights always happening!

Now a privileged player (one with commander tag or some other ability or prerequisite) could influence npcs and give them instructions and focus. So in theory, even if only one human player plays on a server in tier 8, for a few hours a day, could make a difference to their server if they make good decisions to manage the npcs.

In another scenario, imagine a lesser populated server paired off against a larger populated one. It may give a cunning player a fighting chance if the player could instruct the npcs to attempt to capture points all over the map forcing the larger group to commit players to defend.

I love that someone is seriously proposing this idea after I made a satirical thread about it….

Tongku.5326:

I hate to say it but its really time to shut down the bottom tiers entirely, in fact, its very long overdue.

yes, there are a few people, a very small segment of entire game population that went to the bottom tiers to be exactly and precisely the loner roamers, etc. But….

Are those few people actually forking up enough real life $$ to justify the existance of their servers ?

Also, are those few people forking up the real life $$ for the few new players to transfer off that inadvertantly get trapped on their servers and don’t want to be the solo / small stuff roamers ?

I am willing to bet the answer to both those questions is a resounding no.

What would that fix? If your boat is sinking and you have the tools to fix it you don’t jump into another leaking boat.

Ant needs to get in here and communicate with their playerbase. They need to revert some of the terrible changes HoT introduced and bring the alpine map back into rotation (or just back as a replacement).

butch.8136:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Almost a year to the day and this problem is still happening. Just ruined my last match for me. I’ve barely logged into the game since WvW was broken and this is the kind of kitten I have to deal with when I log on?

I’ve never had it happen in 4k games. :/ I haven’t seen any reports on it either lately.

I’ve had it happen with stillness in the past, but it’s been a few months until it happened with tranq today. I’ve also been seeing the stomp bug quite a bit lately. It’s ridiculously frustrating when you end up losing because of stupid bugs like these.

Almost a year to the day and this problem is still happening. Just ruined my last match for me. I’ve barely logged into the game since WvW was broken and this is the kind of kitten I have to deal with when I log on?

What did anet break now?

WvW…. Anet broke WvW.

Couldn’t find the motivation to log on for reset, binge watched jessica jones on netflix instead. No ragrets.

Diku.2546:

Jim Hunter.6821:

msalakka.4653:

Phantom.8130:

And obvious the rams would be sponsored by Viagra

Ram harder than ever… with Viagra.

New WvW mastery- Rams are enveloped in a protective sheath. Once you open up the tower gate the sheath bursts so your party can get inside.

Ram Tough…hmm…this kind of looks like…naw…couldn’t be.

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

Ask your local gynecologist to explain this post. Either way…we’re still screwed with how auto-upgrades are currently implemented.

Oh my god….. you are saying anet is really Hydra?!

….. What….. no one else watches agents of shield?
…. I’m such a nerd…

I think the new siegelaser and his minions should ride around on dinosaurs when they are k-training for us, the old siegerazor was way too slow.

They only fixed it if the person exited the game, they never fixed it for people just leaving the mists. This isn’t a new problem, it’s the same old problem that has been ignored for years. But it’s okay, we are supposed to be fighting dinosaurs rather than other players now, the dino’s can’t leave the mists.

LetoII.3782:

Lack of mobility is a fatal flaw for necro.
When you’re the littlest fishy in the sea, you gotta be able to get away.

I had a problem with that until I insta leveled a norn necro and used the leopard form elite for escaping.

Unfortunately Anet locked the new specs behind a grind so you can’t insta level a norn reaper, and they killed roaming so you wouldn’t find any good fights anyway.

saturn.4810:

Lol thanks for necro, a moment I thought the devs posted something.

It got me too….

Remove the low hanging “bug fixes” and you are left with a few changes that didn’t fix any of the real problems.

They lowered the sky splitter damage instead of removing that terrible event completely.

They moved the WP’s but left them only available to the other servers and didn’t move them back to a T3 upgrade.

WvW is losing people fast and their minimal changes and lack of communication isn’t helping.

Condi’s already were nerfed, the food duration has been reduced and I believe the new duration armor makes you sacrifice either vit or toughness.

Cele signet necro still doe okay on side points, it’s tougher to 2v1 now because of all the cc.
Engi is still a lot of fun. A lot of people are bringing less condi removal lately (since most guards switched from burn to DH) so you can absolutely destroy people with a burn engi if you want to go that route.
Warrior is in a pretty bad spot against players that actually know how to dodge but if your MMR is low you can still tear people up with a stance/rampage build. It’s actually really good for +1’ing fights and moving around the map pretty quickly.

Buy Some Apples.6390:

I dont WTB, I’ve already paid for it, twice!

Can I buy it with Karma or badges?

Work
Cooking
Binge watching netflix
Posting on the forum while binge watching netflix
Saying ”kitten” a lot

If you think eotm is such a success why don’t you just go play that? Why does WvW need to be destroyed when what you want already exists?

Diku.2546:

@Jim Hunter

It’s hard to start a dialogue when the other party is hostile.

I still stand by my suggestion that Dev/Anet should at least consider opening a monologue through locked threads to the WvW Community.

It’s even harder to start a dialogue when the other party is nonexistent.

Diku.2546:

@Jim Hunter

If WvW is made for casual players as you state…then that means the WvW game mode will reflect that playstyle imho.

WvW as we used to know it…that was based on Server Communities fighting it out over several hours for glory…will be a thing of the past.

WvW will be something you drop by…play a few rounds…then leave. Meh…did my daily…time to do something else.

Diku

Exactly why megaservers would kill what’s left of WvW.
There are serious problems with PPT and coverage but megaservers aren’t a fix. That is what anet will do when they want to shut WvW down completely.

Diku.2546:

@Jim Hunter

pop! <— Sound of my bubble bursting.

---

Meow…meow…meow…

Still looking for my WvW inner peace.

Sorry bud. I would love for a dev to come prove me wrong but I doubt that will happen. When have we ever gotten anything more than some form of “we’re listening”?

misterdevious.6482:

With manual upgrades, empty maps encouraged k-training because they were completely paper. With automatic upgrades, empty maps fortify quickly and discourage attack.

If we could fix the empty map problem, then we’d fix both problems.

Auto upgrades discourage small group play and defense, which promotes k-trains by default.

FogLeg.9354:

Swagger.1459:

eotm is packed for many reasons, of course the devs are going to model wvw after it in ways.

EotM is not WvW.

^This.
Queensdale was packed when the champ train was running (no idea if this still happens or not), that doesn’t mean adding a bunch of PvE to WvW will be successful (as evidenced by the new map).

Different people have different things that motivate them to play. Removing servers/ making WvW more casual, removes the motivation for a ton of people.

Diku.2546:

@draugris

Are you sure it’s really a dev/anet responding on reddit…and not some imposter?

Does reddit’s logon tie back to our GW2 game logon?

Sorry, but I don’t use reddit…so I don’t know any better.

To access this forum – You need to have a valid GW2 account from what I understand.

I would think it’s better if Dev/Anet responded here…knowing they’re directly speaking to customer that paid for GW2…right?

When they post on reddit/twitter you see the change in game shortly after. (Like Roy insta nerfing rangers in less than 24 hours)
When they post here they say thing like, “No really guys… *snickers… we are totally listening.” and then they don’t do anything for months/years, and when they finally do make changes they purposefully ignore player requests and try to change WvW to how they feel people should play it, i.e. karma train.

Swagger.1459:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Swagger.1459:

roxybudgy.8205:

Swagger.1459:

And transfers kill servers too… And transfers are not long term solutions to bigger problems…

Yet a server merge is just another word for forced transfer.

The only difference between a server merge and transfer is that people currently get to choose whether or not they transfer, whereas the merge that some people are begging for takes away that choice.

Server merges are not long term solutions to bigger problems…

Not once did I say server “merging”, I was talking about wvw being like megaserver. You stay on your home server but get zapped to mega red, mega blue or mega green.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Edge_of_the_Mists#Match_Up

Also…

“Edge of the Mists is a World versus World map. Its purpose is to act as an extra map for players who wish to play the World versus World format and continue earning rewards even when the official maps are full and has a separate achievement category. Edge of the Mists serves as a testing ground for the new features that may be introduced to WvW, and already provides a new style of gameplay on the floating islands connected by destructible bridges.”

Things will change, megaservers for wvw are coming and the focus will be on winning rewards for your color and guild stuff…

The focus will be on personal rewards and karma trains just like it is in eotm right now.
Do you really think anyone is saying, “C’mon guys we are the red team! We are so much better than blue and green!”
Right now with the HoT changes we are listening to WvW’s death rattle, switching to a megaserver would be the final nail in the coffin.

Nah, it would condense people better and be more exciting to run around. I mean you peeps can be in denial all you want, but I know these changes will be coming.

eotm is packed for many reasons, of course the devs are going to model wvw after it in ways.

Also, the loot and karma isn’t great, there are much more “lucrative” activities for that stuff.

It would condense the k-train’ers…. you know… the people that already go to eotm. It would drive a crap ton of other people away because being paired up with a bunch of randoms makes the game mode even more casual and boring.

They very well may end up doing it, but not to try and save WvW. This is the step they will take when they 100% give up on WvW and decide it’s not worth the money it costs to maintain the servers.

I just hope one of the RvR’s that’s currently being alpha tested is ready to go by that point.

Yeah auto upgrades need to go (and WP’s need to move back to T3). There are other problems that need to be addressed but that is the crap that is really killing roaming.

Swagger.1459:

roxybudgy.8205:

Swagger.1459:

And transfers kill servers too… And transfers are not long term solutions to bigger problems…

Yet a server merge is just another word for forced transfer.

The only difference between a server merge and transfer is that people currently get to choose whether or not they transfer, whereas the merge that some people are begging for takes away that choice.

Server merges are not long term solutions to bigger problems…

Not once did I say server “merging”, I was talking about wvw being like megaserver. You stay on your home server but get zapped to mega red, mega blue or mega green.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Edge_of_the_Mists#Match_Up

Also…

“Edge of the Mists is a World versus World map. Its purpose is to act as an extra map for players who wish to play the World versus World format and continue earning rewards even when the official maps are full and has a separate achievement category. Edge of the Mists serves as a testing ground for the new features that may be introduced to WvW, and already provides a new style of gameplay on the floating islands connected by destructible bridges.”

Things will change, megaservers for wvw are coming and the focus will be on winning rewards for your color and guild stuff…

The focus will be on personal rewards and karma trains just like it is in eotm right now.
Do you really think anyone is saying, “C’mon guys we are the red team! We are so much better than blue and green!”
Right now with the HoT changes we are listening to WvW’s death rattle, switching to a megaserver would be the final nail in the coffin.

Jski.6180:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Jski.6180:

What makes you think the old wvw was not losing ppl too? What going on is pve players simply do not need to play wvw for there end game content any more. Not to say ppl like the new maps they do have problems but they can be fixed in time the wp move is a good start. The thing is old bl with the old upgrading system had a lot of flaws to them we as players simply got use to these flaws but that dose not mean we like them. A keep simply is flipped and you must start over you must encore yaks to upgrade and by any continent play could hard counter any type of def of these yaks. We are talking about ppl putting a lot of work into something that means nothing and by doing so burning out some of the best players out there.

The old maps where made for krama training the new maps are not. The old maps where made for high loot from taking easy to flip objects that where pointless to hold and more then often tolled in such a way due to the upgrade system that they where not worth trying to put work into nor where you able to unless it was simply ignored altogether.

What?
The fights that revolved around building and defending WP’s is what gave roamers a purpose in the game. The WP’s absolutely did mean something because of the hard work players put into them
Getting them as soon as the keep flips is what makes them useless. That’s why you no longer see the epic keep battles that used to occur daily.

Yes at the start of wvw and the week but beyond reset ppl gave up holding keeps for wp due to how easy night flipping was. Your epic keep battles tend to end when one side went to sleep and the other side had ppl to say up. Only a T3 keep was a real threat and was worth defing something that did not happen a lot or when it did it was simply becuse ppl ignored the keep altogether. Roamers purpose is just that roaming they do not need to be with a group to give them purpose in a lot of ways its “fun” for them. If they wanted a true purpose they would scout out fights and contest keeps and gack ppl trying to return to the “front lines” of battle.
What your talking about is killing yaks…. it was helpful but a lot of ppl did not do this nor was it fun for them. It was as much fun as escorting the yaks.

Ummm no. Sorry but you are simply wrong. Maybe you only zerg, or maybe your tier is the exception but from my experience in every tier from silver down through bronze, roamers were constantly skirmishing on the bl’s.

I wasn’t some little helper monkey for the zerg. I was usually the catalyst that caused the massive fights in the bl’s. I would often spend hours prepping a bl by starving keeps, capping a corner of the map and upgrading it, constantly tapping their wp’s so the defenders grew accustomed to it and were slow to respond, prepping the cannons and oil on the keeps, draining supply from a keep by hitting multiple walls with a g cata, and causing a distraction by hitting another keep (causing the defenders to split) once the zerg moved onto the map to take the first prepped keep.

It was the defenders job to stop me from doing this while they tried to upgrade their bl.

Now everything is on auto pilot and no one cares about it. Wp’s don’t matter. G cata and supply change + no one on the map upgrading/defending makes taking anything pointless and boring.
The only options left are to PvD at a an extremely slow rate, join the k-train, or quit playing. This is what they have done to roamers with there terrible changes.

Jski.6180:

What makes you think the old wvw was not losing ppl too? What going on is pve players simply do not need to play wvw for there end game content any more. Not to say ppl like the new maps they do have problems but they can be fixed in time the wp move is a good start. The thing is old bl with the old upgrading system had a lot of flaws to them we as players simply got use to these flaws but that dose not mean we like them. A keep simply is flipped and you must start over you must encore yaks to upgrade and by any continent play could hard counter any type of def of these yaks. We are talking about ppl putting a lot of work into something that means nothing and by doing so burning out some of the best players out there.

The old maps where made for krama training the new maps are not. The old maps where made for high loot from taking easy to flip objects that where pointless to hold and more then often tolled in such a way due to the upgrade system that they where not worth trying to put work into nor where you able to unless it was simply ignored altogether.

What?
The fights that revolved around building and defending WP’s is what gave roamers a purpose in the game. The WP’s absolutely did mean something because of the hard work players put into them
Getting them as soon as the keep flips is what makes them useless. That’s why you no longer see the epic keep battles that used to occur daily.

Dawdler.8521:

GG Anet. You made it even worse. Why does this keep happening?

I honestly feel that they are just kittening with us at this point.

“Oh you want to kitten about the map I spent months working on and now you want WP’s in the keeps? Okay kitteners here’s your WP’s….. now choke on them.”

Nightlock.4379:

What A-Net needs to do is combine the lower pop servers so that they can compete in higher tiers making WvW more competitive and more enjoyable because its not fun to run around a WvW map and not find anyone.

Do you think people don’t know how to transfer?
In the past year I have played in NA T2-7. Roaming the bl was pretty much the same across all tiers. The higher up you went the bigger the roaming groups would become (close to prime time) but the frequency of the fights was pretty much the same.
The biggest difference across tiers is coverage and the size of the pug blob.

Merging servers won’t magically fix all the problems with the new system that is driving roamers away.

msalakka.4653:

Phantom.8130:

And obvious the rams would be sponsored by Viagra

Ram harder than ever… with Viagra.

New WvW mastery- Rams are enveloped in a protective sheath. Once you open up the tower gate the sheath bursts so your party can get inside.

BrickFurious.7169:

Jim Hunter.6821:

The side WP’s don’t seem to be working… anyone else seeing them contested on every map?

Well the original design of the tower waypoints was that only the nearest enemy team could access them. So if they just moved them to the keeps and kept the functionality the same…then you won’t be able to use the fire/air keep waypoints on your home BL.

….smh

DmG.1953:

Jim Hunter.6821:

DmG.1953:

I don’t play anymore ,but I came here with plessure to see you QQing about this updates new maps.

So you are defending the new map just to kitten off Rajel?

…. If you have a problem with him that is your business but please find some other way to troll him. WvW hasn’t been in a great place for the past year and a half but the changes HoT brought are destroying what little fun was left in it. You are hurting more than just him by supporting it.

I disagree and I’m not here to provoke rajel.it just happened to hear from old friends that he is qqing in off forum.
IN EU servers like JS-VS-AG-RS and some more are rising to the top again and servers that only monoblobbed are collapsing.For me that’s healthy and good.If you are having prbs with new maps maybe you are in such server as I mentioned.i really don’t know about US servers but this topic was made from a EU guild and even server leader…or at least one of them.

The servers that relied on small groups to outmaneuver the omni blob are collapsing. Taking a tower with <5 people takes too long, the omni blob can easily respond in time if they chose to. But they usually don’t because while the small groups are spending 30+ minutes per tower they can flip more than half a map in the same amount of time.

Phantom.8130:

And obvious the rams would be sponsored by Viagra.

Lmao +1

The side WP’s don’t seem to be working… anyone else seeing them contested on every map?