If we’re talking strictly damage…Ele > All in both pve and pvp. The only class I know that can almost down a shoutbow in one second if they get their combo off correctly.
Warrior wasn’t even mid-tier pvp damage before the patch. Unless we’re talking rampage. That hit like a truck.
The trait is more than just a stability now.
Hum, I never came across mesmers running this before. It’s pretty kitten annoying.
Was fighting a mesmer and he interrupted my combustive shot. After that my burst was reset to a 10 second cooldown. Not only is my burst skill recharge only 6 3/4 seconds, but I thought interrupts only reset cooldown to 5 seconds. What is this? A bug? A new mesmer trait/skill?
How is from 1700 to 2000 … 40 to 80% more. Basic math people.
It’s a 15% difference.
Shouts scale better with healing power now so that does help some.
You don’t need 25 stacks to hit 1705. If you’re healing for 1560 with celestial, then you need roughly 14 stacks. Very doable. Most shotubow builds only run 2 shouts since a stance or endure pain is better than a third shout in most situations. You’re not losing much healing at all. 400-800healing every 24 seconds…not a big deal.
What I said is exactly the same thing you said…Just different wording.
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Shoutbow still works. It’s not 1k heal with celestial it’s 1560 heal. And with inspiring presence heal it’s closer to 1700 heal.
Why are my burst skills going on a 10 second cooldown when interrupted? My burst cooldown is 6 3/4 seconds, it makes no sense.
Fighting mesmers is annoying enough without their infinite interrupts making my cooldowns double the length.
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It’s bugged on your end then. Try restarting game perhaps.
Versatile Power: Might on swap is working. However, the burst skill recharge is not working.
With versatile power, my burst skill cd is 6 3/4 seconds, and it’s 8 seconds without it. How is it not working?
Shrug it off is a really mediocre and unpredictable skill, so it sounds good to me.
Burning will stack in intensity post-patch, you can’t compare what it is now with what it’s going to be post-patch.
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Where do people come up with 15 might stacks? You only need 6 might stacks according to Anet. They said 750cond damage was roughly what you need to break even.
It’s been proven, that number was just a ball-park. It actually varies with spell to spell, with how many stacks they converted some conditions to, etc. There seems to be a “break even range”, some things break even at 0 condi dmg (certain poison skills) and some break even at 850 (some burning skills).
Well I just did math for bleeding, and with 750 cond damage post-patch you do slightly more condition damage than previous with the same amount of condition damage.
850 for burning would be roughly 10 might stacks with celestial, which is still easy to come by… So where do people come up with this 15+ might stacks?
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Where do people come up with 15 might stacks? You only need 6 might stacks according to Anet. They said 750cond damage was roughly what you need to break even.
Cele condi’s are stronger than they were before. We only had 438 condi damage before. Even with the new formula, 560 condi damage will do more damage than 438 did before. With might stacks or vulnerability it will be much higher damage than it was before.
Yeah, not sure why people are saying cele builds will lack enough condition damage to do enough damage with them. If I recall, 750 condition damage is where you need to be in order to do the same amount of condition damage as before. That’s 560 from celestial and +6 might stacks. That’s ridiculously easy to obtain for every celestial build. Except maybe engineer, but even they can manage 6.
I agree though, we don’t seem to disagree on what should be done with Fast Hands … unless you’re against the possibility of it being removed and Warrior rebalanced around no Fast Hands.
This is not a good idea simply because it is far harder to balance warrior without fast hands then it is to make fast hands baseline. It could take multiple balance changes to get it right. Warrior would need a serious overhaul. And Anet isn’t known for their fast and timely balance updates.
@Henry: agreed on that, I was hoping the same, especially after I believe Grouch had said that a nerf of ~10% was likely. I guess that decision got changed somewhere along the road.
That is kind of my point though. I don’t think it was changed along the road. I think they just thought about it in a narrow minded kind of way. So I am hoping the balance patch after this one = we get the cele nerf. As said here:
The amulets will be rebalanced to compensate for the loss of stats originally gained from trait lines.
This is probably as good of a place as any to mention that we’ll also be using this opportunity to rebalance PvP’s celestial amulet to be slightly less effective. We’re probably looking at a 10%~ decrease in overall stats, but this number can change as we draw closer to releasing the core specialization changes.
This is an interesting point, I don’t see a 10% decrease anywhere.
They didn’t do it because Celestial can’t hit 200% crit damage and can’t hit the Condi dmg break point, and lost boon/condi durations. Those builds in general are just losing potency. They probably just simply realized it wasn’t necessary to maintain balance anymore, which is the goal here.
The break point is like 750, right?
That’s very easy to do with might stacking.
560 from celestial + 6 might stacks…and you have it.
Healing Signet doesn’t need to be activated at all. That’s not really any different. Guardians heal can be interrupted, but only with unblockable CC.
Something tells me more condition removal or ways to negate conditions is the last thing we need. CI + shout’s + Brawlers recovery + zerker’s stance…Resistance isn’t something we really need. It would be a strong trait though.
CI isn’t just good for the cleanse, adrenaline on hit is amazing as well. There is no way you’re making full use of berzerkers power without it.
Also just noticed they nerfed the adrenaline gain upon using a shout. Sneaky, sneaky…
Did they? On the other topic it says you still get 5 adrenaline.
We get 8 adrenaline now, so 5 is a nerf.
CI isn’t just good for the cleanse, adrenaline on hit is amazing as well. There is no way you’re making full use of berzerkers power without it.
Also just noticed they nerfed the adrenaline gain upon using a shout. Sneaky, sneaky…
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’cause non-PS build will still do more damage than a PS build in a solo scenario. Or if you have two warriors in a dungeon group and one is already using PS.
Strength – Restorative Strength / Forceful Greatsword / Berserker’s power
Arms – Signet Mastery / Deep Strike / Dual Wielding
Discipline – Warrior’s Sprint / DoTE / Heightened FocusI’m not entirely sure on sigil choices or on optimal food yet. We should easily hit 100% crit chance with signet mastery so I could see sigil of strength becoming a thing, or it could stay sigil of night and sigil of force.
Runes will probably be strength and zerker armor as always.
Greatsword / AxeMace
As for skills. Signet of Might might replace signet of fury, but not sure on that. Only speculation.
This suggested build isn’t going to work. I suggest you go to the indestructible golem and test your dps rotations on it. You will see that you dont even come close to maintaining 100% Berserker’s Power uptime. Either need Furious or Burst Mastery if you want it at 100%, and believe me, you do.
edit: not trying to be mean and shoot you down, just pointing out that theorycraft is sometimes more than “pick the highest dps looking traits and go.”
What about signet mastery and popping SoF for the full adrenaline?
If the new healing surge (shout skill) doesn’t have a cast time, could use that as well for another full bar of adrenaline. Would actually require using most of the warrior skills for once.
The quickness from heightened focus will also help after using your signet/heal skill for the initial adrenaline, the 2x attack speed will help you build it from there.
Are you sure all of these combined things are not enough to keep your adrenaline buildup in line with berserker’s power?
Other than that, it’s hard for me to really test without the patch going live. I don’t have a stopwatch on me, and I can’t test the changes which I feel will help to build adrenaline without sacrificing a damage based trait.
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’cause non-PS build will still do more damage than a PS build in a solo scenario. Or if you have two warriors in a dungeon group and one is already using PS.
Strength – Restorative Strength / Forceful Greatsword / Berserker’s power
Arms – Signet Mastery / Deep Strike / Dual Wielding
Discipline – Warrior’s Sprint / DoTE / Heightened FocusI’m not entirely sure on sigil choices or on optimal food yet. We should easily hit 100% crit chance with signet mastery so I could see sigil of strength becoming a thing, or it could stay sigil of night and sigil of force.
Runes will probably be strength and zerker armor as always.
Greatsword / AxeMace
As for skills. Signet of Might might replace signet of fury, but not sure on that. Only speculation.
Shouldn’t the warrior face some adrenaline starvation with these traits? Burst Mastery seems like a good solution in that case.
You have versatile rage for that. Between that, HB and Whirlwind Attack it should be enough to fully build adrenaline in 8 seconds to make full use of berserker’s power.
Also, because of Signet Mastery, you can use signet of fury to refill adrenaline. Signet Mastery provides 100 precision for 1 minute on signet activation, so you can activate signet of fury whenever it’s off cooldown to get 200+ precision out of it.
I feel Heightened Focus is a much larger damage modifier than burst mastery. You’ll have 4 seconds of quickness against every trash mob, and 4-12 seconds against bosses.
He’s referring to pure GS over GS/AxeMace I think.
And don’t believe it would be better simply because of how many vulnerability stacks you can apply with axe/mace. And also the eviscerate axe burst skill does way more damage than the arcing slice burst skill..And you’ll want to be spamming Axe burst now after the buff to berserker’s power.
Please – an appeal to this current breed of rangers: Get your hands dirty a bit. Yes, long range support is much appreciated from a distance when that’s what’s necessary. But sometimes I just need another body ON POINT with me to assist with a finish, or maybe even to rez me.
GET DOWN from that ledge and do something other than stand and ping!
That’s because the typical power ranger will die to a sneeze and has zero condition removal. So ressing is not their strong point… Though they can stomp fairly well with LB 3, but that’s only if they’re not under pressure.
Current raw stats are 926 not 960.
Where does it say celestial is being nerfed? Something current, because I did hear about it awhile back but I don’t recall them saying anything about it with the new specialization/balance changes.
I’ve only had this happen once. I queued up solo, ended up with 2 thieves, a mesmer, and a warrior running all signets on foefire…. so pretty much a loss from the start. I would call targets and watch as everyone attacked whoever was closest to them instead of focusing the target. Neither thief decapped far once the entire game.
I eventually went down at home and we ended up getting 3 capped, they had 3 at home and 2 on mid. I pushed far since the thieves weren’t doing their jobs, decapped it and had 1 come to kill me, won that fight and capped it and then went to check mid. Mid had a shoutbow and bunker guard sitting on it so I decided to hold them their and keep an eye on far figuring my team could win 4v2-3 at home. Well apparantly they kept losing the fight even though they outnumbered the opponent. I kept 2-3 busy at mid/far the rest of the game and the thieves kept going on in chat about how it was my fault we were losing even though I was the only one holding anything.
How the hell is it my fault if the entire team can’t win a fight where they outnumber the opponent. If we have to zerg every point it’s a lost game anyway but it’s always easy to blame the ranger.
I doubt it’s ever the case ‘’I did nothing wrong the whole game, but everyone was blaming me’’.
Really? You’ve never queued up with newbies that zerg 1 point at a time or spend 3/4’s of the game fighting off point and then get mad at you for capping a point instead of following them?
I’ve had plenty of games where you get 1 or 2 people like this but the match I was talking about was hands down the worst team I’ve ever had. It didn’t help that our comp was terrible, but that is no excuse for not focusing targets.
No, I actually never had a game when everyone would be blaming me for the outcome of the game. I rarely get blamed, but usually realize I could have done something better. All I’m saying is I don’t believe when people say they did everything wrong, but everyone on their team blamed them.
If this was a common experience then you’d be right. The only other times I’ve had players qq’ing in PvP is when I kill them. And it wasn’t the entire team, it was the 2 kittenty thieves that couldn’t manage to kill anyone or decap a point the entire game.
Of course thieves are always the first to cry when I kill them too, the majority of salty whispers I get in WvW is also from thieves, so seeing them try to pass the blame isn’t surprising.
Well, if you’re getting in these situations this much, you should probably think about it a bit more. Saying everyone who plays certain class is salty, blames others for their mistakes and cries just makes me feel like you really see things differently than how they happened.
“I’ve only had this happen once”
Reading is hard huh?
I’ve had plenty of games where you get 1 or 2 people like this but the match I was talking about was hands down the worst team I’ve ever had.
This is what I was coming from.
It is common when you solo que and you’re paired with 4 team premade. They’ll refuse to blame themselves for the loss, so will target you instead. Between group mentality and that they all know each other, they’re going to fault the outsider, regardless whether it was their fault or not.
It’s probably what happened to him.
I’m not even going to play pvp after the update until I know how bad it is. Maybe some hotjoin to make myself feel better.
’cause non-PS build will still do more damage than a PS build in a solo scenario. Or if you have two warriors in a dungeon group and one is already using PS.
Strength – Restorative Strength / Forceful Greatsword / Berserker’s power
Arms – Signet Mastery / Deep Strike / Dual Wielding
Discipline – Warrior’s Sprint / DoTE / Heightened Focus
I’m not entirely sure on sigil choices or on optimal food yet. We should easily hit 100% crit chance with signet mastery so I could see sigil of strength becoming a thing, or it could stay sigil of night and sigil of force.
Runes will probably be strength and zerker armor as always.
Greatsword / AxeMace
As for skills. Signet of Might might replace signet of fury, but not sure on that. Only speculation.
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Just saying, people do need to realize 25% and 33% is a HUGGGE difference in WvW in terms of mobility. It’s a life or death sentence of whether you could escape a zerg or thieves chasing you endlessly.
You do know that the difference is only while out of combat? While in combat swiftness and the 25% movment speeds increase traits/runes etc. do exactly the same. Here look at http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Movement_speed if you dont believe
That’s not how I read it:
“Maximum out-of-combat movement speed is capped at 133% of base speed; maximum in-combat speed is capped at 125% of base.”
125%moves peed will go slower than 125% move speed while in combat, they will only go 125% move speed while out of combat. While 133%movespeed will go faster than someone with 125% move speed in combat, but they just can’t exceed 125% move speed.
No, you read it wrong. You have two base movment speeds one in combat and one out of combat. In-combat movment speed it is capped at 125% of the in-combat base movment speed (this is the one that you use for the calculation). So due the cap, you can only get the full effect of swiftness in combat if you already slowed by things like cripple or chill.
I just tested it, that’s not correct. I used a stopwatch and moved a certain distance with both swiftness and 25% move speed while in combat. I moved further with swiftness every time.
Why does its placement matter? If people want condition removal then they now trait into wilderness survival rather than nature magic. The fact remains that rangers have been able to play power ranger without any condition removal at all.
Nope nope, post patch everyone will pick WS. LB ranger WILL pick WK 24/7. They didn’t pick it before only because “THEY CAN’T” due to traits limitation and all the spreading traits of LB. Now every ranger with their right mind will pick WK 100% of the time. Even TU is becoming a survival, there’s 0 reason a ranger wouldn’t take WK if they want to be “viable” in pvp.
Yes, yes. They could take condition removal through nature magic if they wanted to use the survival of the fittest build. Just because they’re getting a boatload of baseline traits doesn’t mean they were not viable without the condition removal, it just means they will be stronger post-patch.
You’re also comparing a class that has been fine without it who will pick it more often post-patch, to a class that has never been fine without it. Rangers have three years of selecting the same essential trait for their build before they catch up to warriors need of fast hands.
For Guardian, shout is not really a viable build in this Meta. That’s why you only see Mediation Guardians nowadays. We’re talking about “viable builds” in PVP.
It is viable, that’s why it’s on metabattle with a 4.75/5 rating. I see them all the time. They’re very viable in solo and teamque. If we’re talking tournaments…well, only few builds are really picked there. And some classes aren’t picked at all, but that’s not what a class should be based around. The biggest issue is how certain classes counter other classes,s o it throws those classes out of the meta.
You won’t see anything on metabattle without fast hands, that’s for sure!
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Just saying, people do need to realize 25% and 33% is a HUGGGE difference in WvW in terms of mobility. It’s a life or death sentence of whether you could escape a zerg or thieves chasing you endlessly.
You do know that the difference is only while out of combat? While in combat swiftness and the 25% movment speeds increase traits/runes etc. do exactly the same. Here look at http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Movement_speed if you dont believe
That’s not how I read it:
“Maximum out-of-combat movement speed is capped at 133% of base speed; maximum in-combat speed is capped at 125% of base.”
125%moves peed will go slower than 125% move speed while in combat, they will only go 125% move speed while out of combat. While 133%movespeed will go faster than someone with 125% move speed in combat, but they just can’t exceed 125% move speed.
Read the Wind power ranger doesn’t trait into wilderness survival for condition removal.
Ele: Yeah
Guard: If you’re a meditation guardian…but that’s not the only viable guardian build. There is the altruistic healing guardian that takes shouts. And the virtue bunker which also takes shouts…So that definitely does not apply to guardian.
Btw, LB F1, 3, 4 , 5 all can be casted effectively at 1200 ranger, just that you wouldn’t gain might stack if you don’t blast the field near you, that’s why people choose to use it at close range. It is still a range weapon regardless.
It would also be impossible to hit anyone with it from a distance because the LB skills have some of the slowest moving projectile in the game. LB f1 and 3 are simply not viable for anything except close range. Same goes for LB 2 because it deals far more damage in melee range. LB 4 is fast, but it’s a weak damage blind. Much better to use against a melee’s burst skill or one of their disables. There are few ranged skills you could counter with smoldering arrow, because they’d have used the skill before smoldering arrow reaches the target. LB 5 has a rather long cast time, and between its charge and the distance between you and who you’re trying to hit… It will fail against any half decent player. Thus every skill on LB is better in melee range. And more than half of them are borderline unusable in range.
So while they can be cast, it’s far from effective. Just imagine a warrior shooting his LB f1 skill at 1200 range; the person you’re playing against could get up, take a kitten, and come back before it lands.
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“Illusionary persona is now baseline. The reason we are doing this change though is because we felt that illusionary persona was really forcing mesmers to go into the illusion line. I don’t think there were any pvp builds that didn’t use illusionary persona…at least no viable builds”
What they said about illusionary persona is fast hands in a nutshell. With that same logic, there is no reason fast hands should not be made baseline.
Good catch. Too bad they didn’t use the same logic with warrior. :/
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1. I think the second, so 30% at 3 bars (as opposed to ~33%).
If that is the case then is a straight out 70% damage nerf as currently when traited physical deals 100% damage. Too bad that change will practically render my physical build useless. First the main hand axe nerf, then the adrenalin and now this. Oh well..
2. Nobody knows, and nobody’s answering thusfar. Hopes are up on getting an answer though, as Josh seems to visit us a bit. Hopes are down on it becoming baseline, however. Well hey, at least mesmers got Illusionary Persona as baseline.
Allright, lets hope that we will get some answers at some point.
3. Don’t know about the healing, but you will get the Resistance, and they will nerf the HS passive. At least that’s what they said, but it is subject to change off course…
So, the 6sec resistance should be a compensation for the HS-passive heal nerf ? Still remains to be seen what the active heal and the recharge will be.
In fact, with that last remark in mind , why even ask questions at all?
Because, my main is warrior and i am concerned that with the upcoming changes, i will get force to either go full condition warrior or Shoutbow-warrior in order to compete in the new heavy condition meta.
Regards
Seed
The new Healing Surge will be far superior for both healing and condi mitigation, as you can trait/rune for it to cleanse 2 conditions instead of just ignoring the effects for a little while.
Matter of fact, I think the first thing I will try is 60066.
How do you come up with it cleansing two conditions.
Because the amount of posters on GW forums is tiny compared to the amount of posters on GW 2 reddit. 50 unique posts here would be 500 unique posts there, or more. Percentages are relative to the number of people participating.
This means you have to take a whole line if you want the swiftness. Not one trait, a whole line. This has nothing with how good Tools is, because Tools is kitten good.
You have to take the whole line if you want any trait in tools. If you put some thought into it, you would see that what you’re saying is flawed. You’re taking a traitline because of a combination of traits. You think to yourself “hmm, which combination of traits will best perform with what I’m trying to accomplish.” Streamlines kits makes tools a stronger contender. No one will pick the traitline exclusively for it, however. No matter how you dice it, you’re sacrificing one trait for it (lockdown or takedown strike) because you can still choose 2 other traits from adept and GM, as well as the three minor traits that are default to that traitline.
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50 upvotes on reddit is tiny. Mesmers did receive large buffs, some people probably think they received the largest buffs. You’re comparing the #1 most buffed class with the #2 most buffed class. Some opinions will diverge. But when 90% of posters think engi received the most buffs, it’s most likely true. You can see this simply by looking at the changes they received. Well, it’s fine to be in denial, you’ll see when the patch hits soon enough.
My point is you HAVE to go tools to grab the trait, a full 6 because that is how the new system works, even if you don’t want any of the grandmasters.
Please, just stop. Your logic is hurting my brain. The grandmasters are good, so you do want them. Case closed. The only way your point would apply is if every trait in tools sucked and you took tools exclusively for the swiftness…Which clearly is not the case.
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Except engis are not forced to go into tools for Steamlined Kits so I don’t see how that applies. Tools has many good traits, hell Steamlined isn’t even the best trait of the bunch.
Pretty much everyone here agrees engi > all
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Who-won-the-balance-changes/first
Aoe moa, blast on dodge, buffed elite skill that was already very strong, a buff to those ridiculous grenades that were far too strong already. List goes on.
They moved Incendiary Powder to GM, but I fail to see how they nerfed it: “Incendiary Powder: Your critical hits inflict 4s of burning. Burning you apply lasts 33% longer. This trait has a 10 second internal cooldown.”
And considering how much of a buff mesmers received, that’s saying something.
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That’s silly logic, Pistolwhip. That one line also provides other traits. Engi’s who don’t go into that line won’t receive perma swiftness, but that’s the same for every class that gains movepeed from a trait. Except when they invest into a line, they’re only gaining 25%movespeed with no added benefit.
The engi swiftness nerf was the only thing I saw engineers complaining about and that was buffed. Every other class receives a “too bad” to things they’re not happy with. And there lies the problem.
From the live stream. What they posted there is likely a typo.
Where did they state that the warhorn would be nerfed?
The only text that I found regarding the warhorn was the wall of trait-changes which they posted a few days ago and in there the warhorn text was still as it currently is in game. (one condition into a boon)It already hurt when they nerfed the horn a few months ago and I’d dislike if they did it again.
I heavily dislike that they nerf “Empower Allies”. A radius of 300 will just hurt small roaming groups (which tend to be spread out while fighting) and further boost the current melee zergs in WvW.
I wonder who is designing those changes… they always seem to hurt the alternative Warrior builds heavily, even if it might not be the main intention. But if they want to make those boring Shoutbow builds weaker, they should just nerf the bow and not attack those traits listed above, which can be used in many ways.
They reduced the number of targets from 10 to 5 for wahorn charge skill.
The quick breathing trait no longer converts boons to conditions on warhorn use. It only removed conditions.
As if there isn’t an abundance of traits for other classes no one uses. You just don’t see a dev commenting on them and proceeding to buff them after it was already stated the changes are final.
Steamlined Kits would have seen a lot of play in wvw and pve without the buff, now it’s good enough to be taken in every game mode.
Edit: And no, this isn’t what carries engi to God-class, it’s a combination of all the other buffs they received. This buff just further proves the favoritism the devs have for certain classes.
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I’m stunned honestly.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/RIP-perma-swiftness/page/2#post5169529
This must be how engis got buffed into absurdity. The only game designer that listens to player feedback is the one working on engi.
It’s not about higher damage, it’s about worthless utility skills. Virtually every skill on rifle is either easily dodged or lacks a purpose. I mean, compare rifle butt with point blank shot. Two skills on the same CD that serve the same purpose, except one if vastly better than the other. The rifle skill volley is similar to rapid fire, except it has shorter range and fires much slower. The fact that it deals less damage just adds to the inferiority of it.
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